We are joined by Dawson to talk about "Bugonia", Yorgos Lanthimos's English-language remake of the 2003 South Korean film "Save the Green Planet!" by Jang Joon-hwan. Starring Emma Stone, Jesse Plemons, Aidan Delbis, Stavros Halkias, and Alicia Silverstone, we discuss the muddled message of the film from a Marxist perspective, the outstanding performances by everyone involved and Ward lets everyone else know how it compares to the original.

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Track 1: Yeah i think when we did this like i was looking at dawson when we did that nized out it was like,

Track 1: january of 2023 which like feels like uh it was like a lot so long ago uh now

Track 1: new other hosts and you know so all kinds of stuff going on um that's.

Track 2: Uh nice to meet you dawson.

Track 4: Yeah nice to meet you yeah i've known heaven for forever but haven't met the

Track 4: other two of you i don't think it's.

Track 3: Nice to meet you i'm ward.

Track 1: Yeah the other of them i don't think you guys are on you guys never they never

Track 1: were on tiktok right i know that no for sure really but war you have tiktok

Track 1: though word you used to send me yeah.

Track 3: I like was barely on there i posted like maybe like three four things on there

Track 3: and then i just would scroll and send people stuff.

Track 2: I had a tiktok because people kept

Track 2: sending me shit and then all of a sudden tiktok decided that like my account

Track 2: was banned an account i never posted anything on or used other than to look

Track 2: at things people sent me and then it was like your account is banned i was like

Track 2: okay i'm not gonna miss this please.

Track 1: That's honestly just what tiktok does you're like we're just like feel like banning you today.

Track 2: It's like for what i've literally done nothing on this fucking app.

Track 1: They banned my original account there like way back in.

Track 3: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Ward,

Track 3: back at it again with another film discussion from the left.

Track 3: If you'd like to support the show for as little as $3 a month,

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Track 3: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. Now, on to the show.

Track 3: This week on the show, we take a stab at our first Yorgos Lanthimos film with

Track 3: his most recent endeavor for 2025, Begonia.

Track 3: The film is a remake of the Korean film Save the Green Planet and stars Emma

Track 3: Stone, Jesse Plemons, Alicia Silverstone, Stavros Hauquias, and Aidan Delvis.

Track 3: It has been nominated for four Academy Awards, which have yet to be announced

Track 3: as we're recording this before the Oscars. Like many of Lanthimos' films,

Track 3: they border on the absurd and really

Track 3: take you to places that offer social commentary in a really bizarre way.

Track 3: With us to discuss the film is Dawson, who you may remember from way back when,

Track 3: when we covered first, first covered Knives Out film.

Track 4: Thank you for having me.

Track 1: Of course. Thanks for coming back. And I feel like the, the,

Track 1: I guess the obvious question is, so you, you had reached out because I had no

Track 1: longer have a TikTok as you will probably keep some of us bantering about TikTok at the beginning.

Track 1: But what made you pick this film?

Track 1: Cause it was like pretty much like, yes, this is the one, you know,

Track 1: this is the, this is the pitch. We should do begonia.

Track 1: And I had already seen it. So curious why you thought about doing it.

Track 4: Yeah, I don't know. I saw Begonia in its opening week in theaters,

Track 4: the first film I'd seen in a theater in probably three years.

Track 4: And I, you know, thought about it a lot, talked with my girlfriend about it

Track 4: for like two months straight.

Track 4: And it's still on my mind, you know, all this time later, trying to really dissect

Track 4: the themes and commentary Yoros has. So that's why I reached out.

Track 1: Yeah no i'm glad you did we we i mean

Track 1: i don't know that we necessarily thought about doing it but i also saw

Track 1: it in the theater and think about it

Track 1: i mean we just did an episode last night that's coming out tomorrow well

Track 1: not when you're listening about the like the top the the pictures not the movies

Track 1: nominated for best picture this year and like some of them i think about like

Track 1: not at all like that movie i watched it and it just disappeared from my brain

Track 1: but begonia is one of the few there that I also feel like it's constantly on my mind.

Track 1: So I think Ward has seen it a few times. You saw it for the first time,

Track 1: Bill. So what did you guys think of it? I want to go for it. Go, Bill.

Track 3: Okay.

Track 1: I wore it.

Track 3: Hey, first time back. Give me a minute. Yeah, no, I really enjoyed it.

Track 3: I watched it today for the third time just so I could get a refresher in because

Track 3: it's been a little while since I've seen it, a couple months.

Track 3: But yeah, no, I watched it a couple times before that. I really enjoyed it.

Track 3: Went and watched the original that it's based on.

Track 3: I enjoyed that one a little bit more, not gonna lie.

Track 3: It's just overall just a more fun film, a little more over the top in areas

Track 3: that really just leans into the humor of it all instead of trying to make it

Track 3: so serious the whole time.

Track 3: Not the whole time, but more serious in this version.

Track 1: What do you say, Bill?

Track 2: I really enjoyed it. I mean, I have feelings about the ending,

Track 2: but I did really enjoy it.

Track 2: I've been looking forward to doing it. Actually, if you recall,

Track 2: Evan, we did Eddington. That was like one of the options. I was like, what about Begonia?

Track 2: Because I hadn't seen it yet. I was like, oh, you know, like,

Track 2: what about Begonia? Because Begonia seems like it would be a good one to cover.

Track 2: But i'm glad you know that you know we waited until because especially since

Track 2: ward has seen it like multiple times because otherwise we would have done it

Track 2: it was just like two of us like oh yeah you know um and you know with dawson

Track 2: here as well i i really did enjoy it i think it was,

Track 2: really i had no idea it was based on another film which i'm gonna

Track 2: go find that and watch that as well but i

Track 2: i think there's you know there's a lot to it i think

Track 2: it's it was really good i really enjoyed it and plemons and stone like they're

Track 2: phenomenal i mean like i'm always like you know we talked about plemons last

Track 2: night about how like basically he doesn't get the recognition he deserves by

Track 2: like the establishment like he's been nominated a bunch of times like never

Track 2: wins anything but he really deserves stuff you know i.

Track 1: Remember when i went to see in the theater and i i literally

Track 1: had didn't even see the trail i just like went in being like this this

Track 1: is a yorka film i'm just gonna like ride you

Track 1: know go go along for the ride and the first

Track 1: 15 minutes or so even like i don't want

Track 1: to call it a cold open but before they put the title card on they're sort

Track 1: of giving you that whole sort of informative idea about

Track 1: bees and kind of going through the

Track 1: ecosystem and i don't know did you i was trying to think in sort of like analyzing

Track 1: it from uh obviously from like a leftist perspective is do you need all of that

Track 1: like is it necessary to kind of give that sense of the bees and everything sort

Track 1: of understanding and then you sort of then see you know,

Track 1: emma stone's character the sort of sterile cold person and

Track 1: then jesse plemons is sort of like the more you know working class you know

Track 1: working person and i don't know it's kind of giving you all three perspectives

Track 1: or maybe you're meant to like see the bees and like these are the two the queen

Track 1: and then the the worker bee i guess as i think about it i don't know what you all think.

Track 4: I think there's there's like a lot of irony in that because it's really just

Track 4: like building expectations for what you imagine these characters to be and then

Track 4: you know with the ending especially it's like so i i think it is useful in kind

Track 4: of pointing us towards a certain direction and then subverting that i guess.

Track 1: Yeah.

Track 2: The bees to me are

Track 2: such a powerful like metaphor a big and especially

Track 2: when it goes into the colony collapse disorder because it all

Track 2: about like it was like to me it is less about the

Track 2: whole like you know like the colony and like the queen and like working

Track 2: class and like i'm a stone you know more so

Track 2: the like the way in which systems fall

Track 2: apart but also the way in which humans unknowingly and just like ignorantly

Track 2: change the world without really like understanding what they're doing and how

Track 2: like you just make decisions based on like individual,

Track 2: like you know interest individualist you know like make that choice and then never.

Track 2: Really contend with the systemic problems that that it brings but that it then

Track 2: brings about these when you zoom out nature in general like how that has affected

Track 2: you know because to go back about the fact that like bees are the underpinning

Track 2: of like, you know, whole ecosystems.

Track 2: Like they go, shit goes like bad, you know,

Track 2: Because it's colony, we apply colony collapse disorder to the bees themselves,

Track 2: but colony collapse disorder, when they collapse, that affects the colony of everything.

Track 2: It's the whole colony. It's everything. It's total collapse.

Track 3: Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, you even have Teddy explaining that to like Don

Track 3: in the early moments of the film when they're walking.

Track 3: He's like, oh, are these people fine? He's like, yeah, they're fine.

Track 3: Like not fine, fine. Hollow, you know, like the rest of us.

Track 3: Harmless. Hopeless. that's the way they planned it to make us like bees a dead

Track 3: colony atomized in a trillion directions with no way home again that's direct correlation.

Track 1: Yeah. And then maybe like very, very briefly for, you know, if you haven't seen

Track 1: it yet and you obviously you should definitely go watch it.

Track 1: But the like the overall, I guess, plot or structure of the movie is pretty simple.

Track 1: I mean, I think the messages that we'll talk about and what's underlying is

Track 1: more complex. But you basically had Emma Stone playing the CEO of a pharmaceutical company.

Track 1: And Jesse Plemons is a worker at a packaging plant owned by the same company.

Track 1: And he lives, his mom is sick, we learn a little later, is in the hospital,

Track 1: which we also learn is due to the same company, the pharmaceutical company.

Track 1: And they abduct Emma Stone and accuse her of being an alien and to bring them to her mothership.

Track 1: And it's sort of the, for the most part, most of the film is them interrogating

Track 1: her, trying to get answers.

Track 1: And like, we slowly learn, you know, more things about it.

Track 1: And i don't know when i went into it in the early stages of the movie i'm just assuming.

Track 1: Okay there's no way that she's an alien this is just sort of this

Track 1: conspiracy theory that these people are building and that's

Track 1: the thing that i keep coming back to is the idea of conspiracy theories

Track 1: and how that plays a role in so many

Track 1: people's lives you know you go down a rabbit hole alt-right pipeline or the

Track 1: conspiracy pipeline and a lot of times conspiracies are complete bullshit sometimes

Track 1: they're just kind of covering for the slightly less absurd real thing yeah.

Track 2: I just want to say for anybody listening if you have not watched this movie

Track 2: this is not one of the movies that like you listen to the episode and I can

Track 2: watch do not do not finish this episode like you will,

Track 2: the movie will be ruined for you like go watch it first do not allow yourself to be spoiled.

Track 4: Yeah yeah yeah like even when i watched it i spoiled the absolute ending for myself,

Track 4: but even knowing just that like the one sentence description of the end like

Track 4: there was still so much that did shock me and like you know brought emotions

Track 4: out of me the other smaller twists.

Track 1: What did you think about the the i mean we like we had to so like those we put

Track 1: together beforehand And I like I think I sort of go back and forth on Plemons

Track 1: character as to whether he's like I think Bill and I were talking about this yesterday is like,

Track 1: is he the kind of conspiracy person who's so close to getting the thing but

Track 1: just can't like make the right assumption that things are because of capitalism or because of,

Track 1: you know, the inherent the failures of our structure or if it's some other it's something else.

Track 2: That goes straight to the end of the movie like.

Track 1: That. Well, well, okay.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 1: Okay.

Track 2: You can't talk about that without going right to the end of the movie.

Track 1: I know. I know. Well, I mean, it's hard. Yeah. I guess you're right.

Track 2: Okay. I think what is, before we ever get to that point, what struck me was, okay, I,

Track 2: spoilers. If you're got, you know, you're going to be here. She's an alien.

Track 2: Okay. So now we got that out of the way.

Track 2: Okay. Before we ever get to that point, what struck me is when they have her after they've,

Track 2: after they've kidnapped her and they have her

Track 2: in the basement and they're talking to her the the

Track 2: gulf in communication between the

Track 2: language and the way in which the f

Track 2: the everyday normal person like plemmons

Track 2: like a working-class person and the the corporate speak

Track 2: the language she uses it's like she

Track 2: if she's not like she doesn't have to be an alien because like i don't work

Track 2: in a corporate world some of us do but i know people who you know like work

Track 2: in corporate world and that's like some of them talk like that in their real

Track 2: lives and it's like that's you're not,

Track 2: it's like this like whole other like alien language that it's like they've been

Track 2: programmed it's like they don't

Track 2: know how to communicate with normal people and it was it struck me so.

Track 2: Powerfully the way they were talking past each other and it was like she's trying

Track 2: to be like all like oh you know like understanding but it's comes across like

Track 2: condescending and it's still like totally talking past and i want to i want

Track 2: everyone i want to hear everybody else's like kind of takes on that yeah.

Track 4: They're like from watching it the first time there's like one line in particular

Track 4: that has stuck in my head all this time and that's her being like it's something

Track 4: about, you know, his media diet not being good,

Track 4: how he's in a media echo chamber that he only gets one side of the story. I'm like,

Track 4: it like doesn't even cross her mind i mean and from

Track 4: the viewer's perspective at least like she doesn't understand why he would believe

Track 4: something like this like what has driven him to this point where this could

Track 4: be a more preferable situation in his psychology than reality which is just

Track 4: that society has screwed him over time and time again but.

Track 2: Also like the whole like i want a dialogue can we can.

Track 1: We dialogue here well fucking

Track 1: says that they set it up so nicely with

Track 1: it's gonna i think it's in that first 15 minutes when she's doing

Track 1: the uh what is it like the dei

Track 1: promo video thing at

Track 1: the beginning and you know she's complaining about how

Track 1: like oh we keep saying uh diversity over and over

Track 1: and like no like it's the diversity video that we're

Track 1: doing here and the way that she speaks in that is

Track 1: truly as someone who works in not in pharmaceuticals but like understands the

Track 1: corporate structure there are people legitimately who talk that way and it's

Track 1: you know again like she's an alien to she's an alien without being an alien

Track 1: i think is what you're also saying yeah.

Track 3: Totally they're not like the rest of us not some like average working class

Track 3: dudes because i mean even jesse plemons's character like later he's talking

Track 3: about oh i went through like the whole like digestive track of politics like

Track 3: all alt-right alt-light um,

Track 3: what was it and then he says marxist yeah he

Track 3: says marxist at the end but there was another one in between there leftist i

Track 3: can't remember yeah he says leftist too yeah oh okay yeah

Track 3: leftist marxist yeah but like even when he's

Track 3: like before and then you jump back forward to when

Track 3: he's like at his job packing like boxes and

Track 3: he's sitting there with his co-worker like no you need to fucking report that that's a

Track 3: fucking violation and it's like you know so like

Track 3: he understands like some of it but

Track 3: like yeah there's just such a major disconnect between the language

Track 3: that she uses and the language that he uses because he's like just straight

Track 3: up like saying the uh like corporation that he works for is a fucking bunch

Track 3: of demons while she's like oh can we please may may we have a dialogue like

Track 3: come on two different planets yeah.

Track 2: It's it's and it's the the way

Track 2: it's presented where she's like i'm trying

Track 2: to be reasonable here with you because you've

Track 2: committed violence against me but never acknowledging

Track 2: the vast scope of violence

Track 2: that her class and she in particular has committed as a capitalist as an executive

Track 2: for that company where she centers herself as the victim it's like bitch you

Track 2: have fucking like and again this is before you ever know that she's an alien,

Track 2: which is a problem for me.

Track 2: You and your class commit untold violence.

Track 2: And now you are presenting yourself as the victim here. It's like, no.

Track 4: I was actually kind of looking on Reddit for the more liberal understanding of this film.

Track 4: But in doing that, I came across a Reddit comment that just makes so much sense to me.

Track 4: That's like, she's destroyed Teddy's life, not as an alien, but in her capacity as a CEO.

Track 4: And it's like she got bit by a dog that she made rabid, and then she's the one that put it down, right?

Track 4: Um it just reminds me a lot how you know institutionalists talked about you

Track 4: know like luigi mangioni or about how zionists talk about palestinians it's

Track 4: like you push people to extreme actions and then pretend like you didn't do that to begin with.

Track 1: Yeah they they create the circumstances that lead to their trying to break from

Track 1: their prison and then you punish them and are like wait i wonder why they why

Track 1: would they do that to us i can't figure it out it's that it's.

Track 2: That that it's the meme but um what uh fuck with the community the meme with

Track 2: the comedian snl it's like why would that why would they do that you know do they shoot them.

Track 1: I mean as you mentioned before bill like the just simply that plemons just being

Track 1: a really good in this film and he has so many i mean he does probably the majority

Track 1: you know of the the speaking throughout it but all the time He's not allowed to talk. Right, right.

Track 3: He prefers not to talk.

Track 2: He prefers it. My colleague prefers not to speak.

Track 1: But his entire, you know, everything he's teaching him about,

Track 1: you know, like we need to inject our cell with this so we're chemically castrated.

Track 1: And just his entire, you know, the hole he goes down before the movie even comes

Track 1: in, you know, before where he's on screen. but within the movie itself he's

Track 1: feels like he's gotten to the point where,

Track 1: He has no other options left in some way, you know, maybe that's going to what

Track 1: you're saying where this, this Reddit kind of comment of they've put them into

Track 1: the point where they have no other good option.

Track 1: And so his decision is to, you know, kidnap the CEO and convince her that convinced

Track 1: she's an alien and to go to his ship and somehow save Earth.

Track 1: But like, will that actually save Earth? You know.

Track 2: Probably not that's it's i just want to talk about i want to talk about the

Track 2: alien thing but like it's like there's more and like i don't want to just like

Track 2: jump to that but it's it's so,

Track 2: it is like to me like it undermines so much as a leftist it's just like as a

Track 2: marxist it undermines so much of the movie in my opinion like that it actually bothers me.

Track 4: No yeah i certainly agree to me it's kind

Track 4: of it's like to me the analysis is kind of

Track 4: ends up being the same regardless of the ending because the interesting part

Track 4: is actually looking at teddy's psychology and how he ended up in a position

Track 4: where you know thinking she was an alien was the reasonable thing for him but

Track 4: yeah i kind of agree that i think the narrative would be a lot clearer if we

Track 4: it just cut to black at that point.

Track 2: I don't know it's the fact that like it's not

Track 2: even that like like yeah his character like

Track 2: yeah it makes sense but like the problem is that like this movie it doesn't

Track 2: then relate to our reality that's the problem that when it is revealed that

Track 2: she is an alien that they exist that they are doing these things what happens

Track 2: is You take a story that is a potent,

Track 2: powerful allegory about society, about alienation,

Track 2: about the way in which the system manipulates people into grasping other things

Track 2: instead of grappling with the reality of what is actually happening.

Track 2: The actual villains in the case and then unifying with other people to take,

Track 2: you know, to move against that.

Track 2: And you, you destroy that. You, because it doesn't relate to the reality of the situation.

Track 2: And in this case, this, this, it's not like.

Track 2: It's not like, you know, a Michael Bay transformer movie where like that doesn't

Track 2: really, that doesn't relate to our reality, but also gives a shit.

Track 2: It's not telling any greater message, but this it's actually like, in my mind, it's like,

Track 2: it's, it's similar to when, when we, when we, when we watched Eddington,

Track 2: how it's like, you have the opportunity to tell like a meaningful, powerful message here.

Track 2: And you in the end chose instead to either both sides it or be like actually

Track 2: they're aliens and it's like like it's a cop-out to me that's what it was to me.

Track 1: I mean do you think i think me or no suit awesome

Track 1: like do you think that this is then is the like the reveal on the ending i know

Track 1: we keep getting to the ending but like is that like become a liberalized version

Track 1: of what like his does it take away a potential meaningful analysis and then

Track 1: make it into like a liberal version i've been grappling with the same thing.

Track 4: Yeah, I think I think Yorgos is trying to be faithful to the original.

Track 4: And in that one, the CEO actually is the alien. So I kind of get it. But I don't know, I do.

Track 4: In some ways, I think it, it undermines at least the mainstream liberal analysis,

Track 4: which is about how this film is about how we don't know how to talk to each

Track 4: other anymore. I'm like, oh, clearly there's, you know, some underlying class politics here.

Track 4: I think it would certainly be a lot more straightforward if,

Track 4: you know, she wasn't an alien.

Track 4: But I still think there's some concept in like, you know, a CEO being essentially

Track 4: an alien to the rest of humanity, right?

Track 4: That to Teddy, there's really no difference between her as a CEO and her as

Track 4: an alien, just the same way it is between workers and a CEO,

Track 4: I guess. but i know i i still agree i think it would be stronger if she wasn't an alien.

Track 3: I mean as a miserable marxist like

Track 3: i can get wanting to stick to the fucking original no like

Track 3: what fucking bill saying this could have been such a potent like allegory a

Track 3: story of like fucking class conflict but then it like flattens out with the

Track 3: oh it's just an alien aliens are the bad ones not ceos yeah that's pretty liberal

Track 3: in my eyes but i'm also a miserable marxist so like i.

Track 2: I it never even occurred, like, speaking as a miserable monster,

Track 2: it never occurred to... I am...

Track 2: Dawson, when you said it's about how like we can't communicate with each other anymore,

Track 2: it never fucking occurred to me at all that that was the lesson this movie,

Track 2: because in my mind, I'm like, the lesson this movie is that fucking capitalists

Track 2: are actually fucking animals that need to be put down like dogs because they're going to kill us all.

Track 2: Like, it never once occurred to me to humanize her in any way,

Track 2: shape, or form, because she in no way, shape, or form in my eyes,

Track 2: or anybody in her position, deserves that.

Track 2: They are the villain.

Track 2: Like, in the world, the world we live in, in reality, they are the villains.

Track 2: And they, I don't want to, I'm not, I'm not here to humanize the people contributing

Track 2: to colony collapse disorder.

Track 2: Like I'm not here for that. That's it never even occurred to me.

Track 2: So like, to me, I'm like, you're telling a story about class,

Track 2: class conflict and then undermining that by being like, well,

Track 2: actually, she's an animal.

Track 3: Yeah. I didn't think that was supposed to be the lesson either. I'm right with Bill.

Track 3: I'm just a miserable Marxist. Ruthlessly critique.

Track 2: I thank you thank you warren i because dulce said that i'm like am i the dummy no we.

Track 3: Just completely missed the point we're like these fucking piece of shit ceos

Track 3: oh you want to kidnap one i support that brother.

Track 2: Because they're aliens.

Track 3: Critical support brother.

Track 2: Like you got to where you needed to like we need to get you on the right path

Track 2: to understanding why you need to do this but you got you got you got there you know yeah.

Track 3: You got the right answer you You just need to show your work.

Track 4: No there's uh if you go to there's a q a with you know all the main actors including

Track 4: stavros who shout out stavros is a great socialist comedian but um even though

Track 4: he has a horrible character in this um yeah he.

Track 3: Played it so well though.

Track 4: I thought so too i would when.

Track 2: He casually admits to like basically sexually abusing i was like what the fuck

Track 2: i just like so casually what What is happening here?

Track 1: And then comes over and eats his cake. Yeah, sorry, you go ahead, Dawson.

Track 4: No, I was just going to, yeah, if you go to this Q&A and you,

Track 4: like, read the comments, people will be like, I'm shocked.

Track 4: No one thought to ask about how, about the scene where she's tied up and how

Track 4: that would make, like, women feel in today's culture.

Track 4: I'm like, how do you watch the movie and be like, oh, the issue is that they

Track 4: treated her badly as a woman and not as anything else?

Track 4: I'm like, that wouldn't even be at my first 20 takeaways about the film,

Track 4: even if I was trying to think of what a liberal would ask.

Track 3: She's a girl boss. I'm still processing that they chemically castrated themselves

Track 3: for this, and you're worried about what they're doing to a woman who's actually an alien?

Track 1: I was thinking about this a minute ago. I wrote this down. One of you were talking.

Track 1: I can't think of what... This is going a little bit towards the end,

Track 1: but was the sort of alien's perception of humanity...

Track 1: Just the human nature argument like was that simply kind of what they're going

Track 1: for you know like oh humans we made these good we tried to make people or the

Track 1: dinosaurs existed and then humans

Track 1: came and they were terrible and evil and horrible and uh we can't fix them,

Track 1: so you know human nature will always win out i mean it's a completely different topic but No.

Track 3: That's, that's, if you're asking me and Bill, yeah, we missed the complete point

Track 3: of the movie, but we got that point.

Track 1: I'm all, I'm still, sorry, I'm still blown away that people watched it and are

Track 1: like, their first thought is, oh, they're really being mean to Emma Stone.

Track 1: You know, they really, the CEO that literally killed their mother or like almost,

Track 1: literally she does end up killing the mother by being like, yeah,

Track 1: you should just put Andy Freeze into her blood.

Track 2: It's the same crowd that cries about the Romanov's children.

Track 2: Shut the fuck up. I don't care.

Track 3: They're the ones that support more female drone pilots. Yeah.

Track 4: Yeah, I think what you're just saying, Evan, I think that was the full context

Track 4: of that, you know, the Reddit quote that she got bit by a dog.

Track 4: She made rabbit and she put it down. And I think it's not totally clear in the

Track 4: film if her monologue before the alien reveal, if that monologue is actually true or not.

Track 4: Right. So that makes it a little bit harder. But I think either way,

Track 4: like if it's Emma Stone that like it's the president or whatever reports to

Track 4: the rest of the aliens, it's like her experience with humanity is limited to

Track 4: the people whose lives she fucking destroyed. And then they're angry about it.

Track 4: Right. That's what her the core of her ultimate decision.

Track 4: But I think in some sense it is human nature that, you know,

Track 4: you put these people in brutal conditions and then they act out violently and

Track 4: then you say it's humanity's fault.

Track 1: And she herself does it. She becomes the CEO and participates in the same suffering

Track 1: because it's not human nature, it's capitalism.

Track 2: Right. But see, that's the thing that gets me about the movie.

Track 2: That's what gets me about the movie, okay?

Track 2: Because also throughout the movie, what is it? Like from the beginning and then

Track 2: even when she goes back, it's like the, you can go home at 530.

Track 2: If they have, if they're done with their jobs. And it's like,

Track 2: you keep presenting this character as a car, as a person of that class who is

Track 2: consistently exploiting her workers, showing faux concern,

Track 2: showing faux humanity, a shallow depth of humanity towards them,

Track 2: basically acting like this.

Track 2: And then your message is we're not, we don't know how to communicate with each other.

Track 2: You have presented me with a character who, even if she's not an alien,

Track 2: is a fucking horrible person who does not care about other people who exploits

Track 2: them and oppresses them.

Track 2: And then your message for me is.

Track 2: We should learn how to communicate better. She's a bad person.

Track 2: Like, like that's what, that's what gets me.

Track 2: It's like at that point, I, I'm forced to question the director at that point

Track 2: and be like, you, you might be a bad person.

Track 2: You might not actually understand basic ethics.

Track 1: Bill, since you, I mean, Boris, has you seen the original version of this?

Track 1: Is the messaging similar?

Track 1: I mean, with obviously the ending is the same. but is it you is the same takeaway

Track 1: like is he basically just remaking it almost i don't say shot for shot but just

Track 1: taking the same structure and just basically the exact.

Track 3: Same structure and um just.

Track 1: A lot less.

Track 3: Fun and less funny like there's a lot more like obvious humor not just dark

Track 3: humor like black humor just thrown in um like there's over the top like screen

Track 3: animations and some cgi and scenes and like it really plays in the fact that

Track 3: this is a comedy and so this one's more.

Track 1: Black comedy so i mean i mean i ask only because i mean you can still blame

Track 1: the director i guess but if he's just trying to make his version maybe a slightly

Track 1: funnier version of save the green planet then i don't know i don't really know

Track 1: i'm not sure what i'm getting at.

Track 3: I mean if you asked a couple miserable marxists he made a fucking worse version.

Track 1: I mean having

Track 1: seen pretty much yeah i mean having seen pretty much all of his films i think

Track 1: there's only one i think maybe one i haven't seen they borderline like on the

Track 1: absurd and they have such sometimes very good better messaging or like maybe

Track 1: more obvious i don't know this one feels like it the more i'm thinking about

Track 1: it it's like more muddled yeah.

Track 4: That's kind of what i was gonna yeah i think that's similar to what I was going

Track 4: to say in that it's such a clear Yorgos movie in that the message is so...

Track 4: Unclear and like I've listened to like him

Track 4: talking interviews and Q and A's and I don't think I don't think Yorgos intended

Track 4: for the message to be you know like liberal

Track 4: people don't know how to talk to each other I think that's how liberals with

Track 4: like really bad media literacy interpreted but then at some point that also

Track 4: still reflects on the director if you can't take anything else away from it

Track 4: so I will say that but I don't think that's yeah necessarily what his intention

Track 4: was I think there's supposed to be something with class there I just don't know

Track 4: if it was executed it very well it's.

Track 2: The same again not to go back to like not to like

Track 2: harp on like eddington but it's the same thing it's like if you

Track 2: if you if you can't definitively come

Track 2: if you are unwilling to definitively come out against fascism you are for fascism

Track 2: and if you if you put out a movie in which you present a muddled concept of

Track 2: class consciousness and you kind of paint it as it Like, and at the end it's like.

Track 2: Actually, you know, because the fact of the matter is, is that in reality,

Track 2: the world we live in as Marxists, as leftists,

Track 2: how we can all, how many times have we started talking to somebody,

Track 2: a stranger and we talk about, and they go, the world is in a bad state.

Track 2: Yeah. The world's in a bad state. And they go, oh, you know, and you go like, okay.

Track 2: And they started like, oh yeah, you know, people are taking advantage of.

Track 2: Yep. And you know, there's criminals in charge. Yep. and then

Track 2: and you think like oh you know it's like oh you know the corporations

Track 2: and blah blah blah and you're like okay all right you think

Track 2: they're on you know and then they're like you know it's the jews and

Track 2: it's like motherfucker or it's like uh you know it's the it's the reptilians

Track 2: it's like god damn it it's like we live in a world where in reality that is

Track 2: the fucking path that like the system deviates people into because those people

Track 2: are easily controlled like once you when you are on that path,

Track 2: you're easily controlled, you're easily distracted, and you,

Track 2: don't like you know you don't build unity you don't have political power and

Track 2: so when you make a movie that says wow actually he's right they're intramanets it's like.

Track 3: Yeah it just falls so flat like god you could have made something so good out

Track 3: of this but like i get wanting to stick to the original but like i'm a marxist

Track 3: first baby like i need i need my class consciousness i need my class conflict

Track 3: i need some good lessons that's what i like.

Track 2: Yeah it undermines i mean and the shame is that like the performances are so emma stone has you did.

Track 3: The cinematography is great too on top of it.

Track 2: Emma stone has you like like you are questioning the entire like is she an alien

Track 2: even when she comes out of the room and she goes how many of,

Track 2: I'm like, I'm still not salt. I still don't know.

Track 3: Is she so well done?

Track 2: Is she? And it's like, what's the play? Like, cause you could see it from so many angles.

Track 2: And it's like, what's her play? Is she, you know, like, it's like,

Track 2: I don't, I feel bad criticism.

Track 2: Like, I feel bad saying these negative things because like as a piece of work,

Track 2: as a piece of art, fucking great.

Track 3: Oh, such a good movie. That's why I've seen it three times now,

Track 3: but as a Marxist, and that's why I'm on this podcast.

Track 3: Uh, yeah, no, we could have used some more.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 4: I think what's almost especially sad is that despite our criticisms of your

Track 4: ghost and the execution is like underneath all of that,

Track 4: like in the actual relationship between Teddy and Michelle is like that honestly

Track 4: might be the biggest, like big movie that shows the most class consciousness

Track 4: consciousness up until that point.

Track 4: Right in especially like trying to understand why teddy believes these things

Track 4: and you know like i don't think we've talked about it yet but like his situation

Track 4: is that like his mom got addicted to pain meds and then the ceo's company gave her like a,

Track 4: research treatment for opiate addiction

Track 4: and it put her in a permanent coma and then

Track 4: i think there was something in the line about like the fact in the film about

Track 4: the factory closing too and like a fire burning something

Track 4: down so basically his entire life has been destroyed

Track 4: and it's just him and his his cousin his mom's

Track 4: in the hospital and they only gave him like not a lot of money for for his mom

Track 4: so like those are the reasons like this is his suffering that he's trying to

Track 4: rationalize and explain in any way other than that this is just what we've accepted

Track 4: as necessary for capital accumulation to continue yeah.

Track 2: And and the fact of the matter is that like that's real what that happened in

Track 2: real life the sacklers did that and like they walked away they are still billionaires Like to get to,

Track 2: to take a thing that is so relevant to real life people.

Track 2: And then in the end be like, actually, she's an alien.

Track 2: He actually was right. She's an alien.

Track 2: And it's not capitalists and it's not corporations and it's not capitalism doing

Track 2: this. It's, it's the aliens.

Track 2: If we just got rid of those pesky aliens and it's like.

Track 3: To me, that like conspiracy theorists are right.

Track 2: Yeah. like to me like that's almost like that's fucked up because like,

Track 2: hundreds like thousands of people's lives in reality have been destroyed with

Track 2: that very thing in by this very system not not a metaphorically no they chose

Track 2: opiate pain pills like and.

Track 1: And teddy then still is working for

Track 1: the same corporation for his livelihood when they should

Track 1: essentially be paying and then you know later she's trying

Track 1: to bribe him like oh like you know what do you we should have given you more

Track 1: money that wouldn't bring his mom back that wouldn't bring back the hundreds

Track 1: of other thousands millions of other victims of you know the opioid you know

Track 1: Sackler family and all that it's just like they man yeah and the mother thing is just,

Track 1: it's so sad because yeah plus the kid plus he was you know sexually abused by

Track 1: the babysitter and now he's a cop which you could add on to the fact like that's that tracks and.

Track 3: Then he uses bees to kill the cop well he uses a shovel.

Track 2: To kill the cop.

Track 3: It's a bit of both.

Track 1: The bees just incapacitated whatever okay.

Track 2: I did think it was interesting to have alicia silverstone be the mother and

Track 2: that whole sequence where she's like talking about all that stuff because alicia

Track 2: silverstone is a crazy crunchy hippie,

Track 2: like alternative medicine kind of like i thought it was kind of like a funny choice.

Track 1: Is she anti-vax that kind of thing too uh yeah wow,

Track 1: I didn't remember that or didn't.

Track 2: Okay.

Track 4: I had something, something I was just thinking about in preparing my notes and

Track 4: rewatching is, you know, in a world where there were even like,

Track 4: not even like in a Marxist world, just like in a social democratic world.

Track 4: It's like there would be a world where there were appropriate guardrails in

Track 4: Teddy's mom being treated.

Track 4: And even if there was some accident, his mom would be taken care of.

Track 4: And he would have never had any psychological need to develop these conspiracies

Track 4: in the first place, right?

Track 4: Even if it was true, it wouldn't matter because he'd be comfortable enough that

Track 4: he wouldn't need to look for answers.

Track 4: I thought that was interesting. And I think that's just something that,

Track 4: you know, the common, the liberal analyses in this film just don't really see,

Track 4: I don't think, is, you know, if the ending was the exact same,

Track 4: except it was that she wasn't an alien.

Track 4: Like that would be you know even further to be you know misunderstood i guess

Track 4: like my point is if there was going to be a marx ascending there needed to be

Track 4: more it couldn't have just been oh yeah teddy was actually wrong and he killed

Track 4: a bunch of people for no reason or whatever then it just it invalidates his whole experience i.

Track 3: Mean it could be better if it could be resolved by all the people he killed prior were also CEOs.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: Critical support for Teddy.

Track 2: I did not expect there to be a room full of sports.

Track 3: Oh, such a good twist.

Track 1: Do we think that the other people he's killed were also maybe less powerful

Track 1: than the CEO, but like other executives or just like picking,

Track 1: picking off random people?

Track 3: I'm pretty sure it was just random.

Track 2: It was random.

Track 1: Random people. Yeah.

Track 2: Well, how many, do you remember how many that they said there was altogether

Track 2: that he had was like 11 or something? I feel like some.

Track 4: 11 sounds familiar to me. And I think you said two were on Bramadans or something.

Track 2: If he was killing 11 CEOs, I feel like it would be in the news.

Track 2: I feel like they would have been mentioned at some point.

Track 1: So he's just a serial killer is what you're telling me.

Track 2: Yeah. Yeah, just a serial killer. They're part of the bill.

Track 3: He happened to get right on three.

Track 2: He got right on three.

Track 3: Three. Well, like only one CEO though.

Track 2: Now.

Track 3: The Marxist in me says one.

Track 2: Did anybody else notice? See, and this is the thing.

Track 2: The validation of conspiracy theory goes deep in this movie.

Track 2: Because the earth is a flat earth it is like repeatedly shown and it is clear

Track 2: like they made it it's a flat earth like it is the validation of conspiracy

Track 2: theories like goes hard and it's like again like you're just undermining things.

Track 1: So by making him but by making

Track 1: him like an actual conspiracy theorist the idea

Track 1: would be like the the liberal or like maybe the take is

Track 1: like oh well if we could just convince these conspiracy

Track 1: nuts to stop being like that you

Track 1: know just we can reason with you and then talk and then we could just create

Track 1: like comfortable capitalism or you know the nordic model will all be fine but

Track 1: instead they're leaning heavily into it and in some ways it's sort of like propping

Track 1: up the idea of conspiracy theories inadvertently yeah.

Track 4: I mean and i think that's true and i think that's what,

Track 4: a lot of the liberal analyses that are critical, you know, point to it being

Track 4: like, it's like validating.

Track 4: But I mean, to some extent, like the idea that we are ran by wealthy elites

Track 4: who go to secret parties together on an island, like that was also a conspiracy theory.

Track 4: And I don't know, I think it's taking the flat earth one.

Track 4: I thought it was interesting picking that because it's like the one that like

Track 4: all of the audience or 99% is going to know is like, okay, like we have tangible proof.

Track 4: The world isn't flat. I think there's good reason to question why.

Track 2: Um, but then, but then we go back to the point that like, like when you,

Track 2: like how you mentioned, like, you know, like how the, the world is run by like,

Track 2: you know, capital slaves who go on, like go to an island and like,

Track 2: you know, rape children and eat babies,

Track 2: um, has proven to be true.

Track 2: What we return to is the fact that the term conspiracy,

Track 2: conspiracy theorist was created and weaponized by the CIA in response to people

Track 2: accurately pointing out the inconsistencies of the claims made by the government

Track 2: in response to the JFK assassination.

Track 2: And the fact of the matter is, is that conspiracy theorist is often used as a weapon

Track 2: that sense and like the notion that

Track 2: capitalist elites go to like that

Track 2: is not in any way shape or form a like far-fetched like people were called conspiracy

Track 2: theorists for saying that despite the fact that there there was boatloads of

Track 2: evidence for fucking years like it was the unlike flat earth theory.

Track 2: Nobody came up with that out of nowhere.

Track 2: Like, like,

Track 2: Like Pizzagate came out of nowhere, but like the larger thing did not come out of nowhere.

Track 3: No, not at all. And I mean, fuck, conspiracy is a crime that you can be convicted

Track 3: of. Like, why are we going to act like conspiracies don't actually happen?

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: I pulled like a book off my shelf because I thought, I remember,

Track 1: I thought it was in a Vijay Prashad book, but maybe it's not.

Track 1: Maybe it's a Perendi book where he's, it's exactly what you're talking about.

Track 2: It's Perendi.

Track 1: Okay. I figured, I figured. Maybe it's just a Blackfriars and Red.

Track 3: Miserable Marxist got you.

Track 1: Yeah, yeah.

Track 4: So you think of inventing reality it could be.

Track 2: It's actually it's from a speech it's actually from a speech specifically um

Track 2: i had it someplace but yeah it's from a speech where he talks about well he

Track 2: talks about speech it's it's not a yellow speech but yes it's it's not no i

Track 2: don't think i i'm almost positive it's not it's not the yellow speech i.

Track 3: Could swear there's something about in the yellow speech because i know he's

Track 3: talking about clinton's being happy and stuff like that And it's like,

Track 3: oh, whoa, finally, at last.

Track 1: Well, Bill, if you can find it, I'll throw it in the...

Track 1: Conspiracy theory is a term that's used whenever anybody ascribes conscious

Track 1: intent to people with power.

Track 1: So I can say to you that school teachers are concerned about their salaries

Track 1: and they're organizing and they're threatening a strike and they're pressuring.

Track 1: I can say to you that farmers are doing this and looking for subsidies and facing certain policies.

Track 1: But the minute I say to you that the very people at the top,

Track 1: the plutocracy, the very rich and powerful, the ones who own most of America,

Track 1: that they are consciously pursuing power and wealth.

Track 1: Someone will come along and say, what do you have, a conspiracy theory?

Track 1: Or they'll say, oh, you're cynical or you're paranoid.

Track 1: Their view is that stuff just happens. Things just happen, unintended consequences,

Track 1: or our leaders are stupid and they're jerks or they're confused and they don't know any better.

Track 1: And of course, the critic knows much better than everybody.

Track 1: This is maybe not related to it, but even, I think, Bill, you said a couple

Track 1: times, where they constantly talk about the people he's killed and some of them are dromedans.

Track 1: Even to the point where they go to Michelle Emerson's office and she's typing

Track 1: on the calculator and he goes into the closet, even at that moment,

Track 1: he's just standing there with some shoes and shit on the floor or whatever.

Track 1: I was convinced at that point, she's going to do something to him.

Track 1: Nothing's going to happen. He's going to be pissed. and then he accidentally

Track 1: blows himself up and he's like if he hadn't done that he actually would have

Track 1: would they have taken him do you think like do you think he was going to get

Track 1: to go to the ship like no they weren't going to let him right.

Track 3: I don't think so because like on my third rewatch that's something I paid a

Track 3: lot of attention to was there's two explosions in that closet.

Track 1: Oh okay I did.

Track 3: Not so like a small minor one and then fucking Teddy's vest going off so I'm

Track 3: pretty sure I'm of the assumption She put in like the backup alarm code password

Track 3: for her fucking teleporter,

Track 3: blew him up, which set off his explosives.

Track 3: And then when she goes back later, she enters the proper code.

Track 2: Okay.

Track 1: Oh man. I did not catch that.

Track 3: Yeah. There's two explosions. Yeah.

Track 1: What do you make then of the, I mean, like we, so we know she's an alien.

Track 1: We like, we've gone past that.

Track 1: She goes back to her ship and they basically have decided to just let humanity die.

Track 1: Humans, like all the animals are going to, I guess, eat all the dead humans.

Track 2: I was genuinely, I was too. I thought when I thought they were like,

Track 2: all the, yeah, I was like, so wait, are they just going to kill?

Track 2: Like all these like poor animals like they're like they didn't do anything and

Track 2: then it was just humans i was like i mean i don't like that but you know these animals okay they.

Track 1: Should have at least left like the animals out of the zoo first or something

Track 1: you know like the fucking zebras and.

Track 2: Behind the same time like it comes down to the same it comes down to the same liberal analysis.

Track 2: It's like there are entire indigenous populations that have like they,

Track 2: like you're like, you have painted the entire human species with one bro.

Track 2: And like, we know for a fact, like, and it's like,

Track 2: God, the ending really pisses me off. What I found interesting about the presentation

Track 2: of the aliens, though, is it felt microscopic, not macroscopic.

Track 2: It felt almost cellular. like

Track 2: the way that the ship looked like

Track 2: a virus when they when she like emerges she like is coming through like what

Track 2: looks like like almost like amniotic like fluid um it actually reminded me of

Track 2: like the goop and like poltergeist um like the ectoplasm and poltergeist um but it felt,

Track 2: it didn't feel you know like extraterrestrial it felt like internal it was like

Track 2: you know it was an interesting choice I thought because it looked so like it

Track 2: looked a viral almost which I thought was interesting.

Track 3: I like the big fluffy outfits I like those a lot.

Track 2: Yeah they looked very comfy yeah.

Track 1: I thought you were going to say that somehow they were being presented as some kind of like,

Track 1: indigenous species and that species indigenous yeah i guess species are they're

Track 1: not from they're not human in some way from wherever they're from somehow and

Track 1: you know but they're i don't know that doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Track 2: I don't know i just thought it was it was a very interesting design choice and

Track 2: i don't know if there was like a deeper meaning to it that i yeah i know i.

Track 1: Mean as you said i think you said more.

Track 2: The cinematography in.

Track 1: This is great yeah i don't know yeah cinematography was incredible like i really

Track 1: enjoyed the cinematography in this.

Track 4: No i i didn't have much many thoughts on that i think both times i watched i

Track 4: think i was so pissed off i maybe wasn't paying as close at that point.

Track 2: See i gotta be honest when when like,

Track 2: i thought like even like at the beginning i did not i didn't know i didn't i

Track 2: didn't i didn't expect you to be a hundred like basically like on the same page

Track 2: as like like me with this ending i also didn't expect war to be on considering

Track 2: that he's watched it three times like,

Track 2: i mean when a movie makes me this mad i don't usually watch it more than once.

Track 1: I mean i think well i watched it by myself.

Track 3: Had to watch it with joy and then re-watched it.

Track 1: I still Even for its flawed ending and some of the muddle politics,

Track 1: it's still an enjoyable movie, which is kind of confounding to me.

Track 1: I might watch it again. Not tomorrow, but I'll probably watch it again at some point.

Track 3: Yeah, I hate the ending, but the acting is fucking top-notch.

Track 3: The cinematography is incredible.

Track 3: I haven't regretted watching it, re-watching it.

Track 3: As much as I hate the ending.

Track 2: I just didn't expect it, that's all. I was kind of surprised.

Track 2: I was surprised I wasn't the lone voice of like, what the fuck?

Track 3: We deserve more.

Track 4: I think I've wanted to watch it again, specifically to try to make sense of what this film is.

Track 2: I get that.

Track 4: I think the only way you can do that is to look at

Track 4: yargos is trying to make some abstracted point

Track 4: about an allegory where the aliens in this case really are the capitalists who

Track 4: like think of humans the working class as completely expendable and like not

Track 4: of any inherent value on their own only as a tool but like outside of that it's

Track 4: like i don't know if there's a way to make sense of it.

Track 2: Like i love that analysis like i

Track 2: think that's a great thing the problem is contextually

Track 2: in our world once you

Track 2: like once you pay attention to like once you put that in the context of reality

Track 2: it falls apart that's the problem like because like you're like that it could

Track 2: be read that way until you think about like,

Track 2: The conversations for the past, you know, since like, especially they,

Track 2: you know, they became like prevalent, you know, with like, you know, um,

Track 2: the first Trump election, you know, like the conversations around echo chambers

Track 2: and conspiracy and all that stuff.

Track 2: Like once you put it in context of that, you know, you know what,

Track 2: if this movie had been made 20 years ago, that allegory would work,

Track 2: it would work perfectly.

Track 2: Like, maybe not perfectly, but it would work better.

Track 2: It's the opposite of Eddington.

Track 2: Eddington is like 20 years before its time.

Track 1: I mean, what I want to do now is watch the, as you did, or watch the original film that it's based on,

Track 1: just because now I need to just kind of understand if I'll feel the same exact

Track 1: way watching it, the same, you know,

Track 1: satisfaction and then some dissatisfaction at the end.

Track 3: Yeah, no, it's a bit of the same in that regard, but it's just more fun.

Track 3: Like, it's just a fun movie compared to, like, this has incredible acting.

Track 3: It's a great cinematography. The original is just fun.

Track 2: Did you see the original, the South Korean one as well, Dawson?

Track 4: No, I read about it after I watched it, trying to kind of piece everything together

Track 4: and what exactly was changed. So, no, I haven't actually seen it.

Track 2: I thought you'd said it. I just wanted to, you know, make sure that we weren't,

Track 2: like, missing out on, like, you know, your, like, you know, retrospective of

Track 2: that as well. That's all.

Track 1: I don't know. It's weird. There's films that I've really enjoyed where I just

Track 1: probably would never watch it ever again. And not for any bad reason,

Track 1: just like, yeah, like I saw it and like that was it.

Track 1: Whereas this one, I feel like I'm going to still be thinking about it and then

Track 1: be like, well, maybe in six months I'll watch it again. Or maybe I'll watch

Track 1: it in context with some of the other, a couple, I think I actually,

Track 1: there's two Yorgos films that I haven't seen.

Track 1: I never saw Kind of Kindness and I don't think I've seen Dogtooth.

Track 1: I think that's like his first one.

Track 2: Definitely like, it's an insidious movie. It worms its way in your brain.

Track 2: Definitely. Like a little chestburster.

Track 1: That would be much more painful and you would die.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: I feel like all of us, I mean, maybe I won't speak for everyone,

Track 1: but would you tell, I guess at the beginning, Bill, you were like,

Track 1: everyone should stop and go watch it because you wouldn't want to be spoiled.

Track 1: You wouldn't want to know the ending.

Track 1: But would everyone here still tell someone who made it through the whole thing and didn't watch it?

Track 1: Would you still recommend it to people? I mean, maybe not people who are listening,

Track 1: I guess, because probably you've watched it.

Track 1: Like to a stranger, to a friend, to a coworker, would you be like,

Track 1: yeah, you should watch Bagonia?

Track 2: I, yes, because I think that this is the kind of movie that,

Track 2: as a Marxist, like, this is a great fucking movie to, like, have a jump off our conversation.

Track 2: Like, this is, you know, definitely.

Track 1: I figured you would say that.

Track 3: It's also just a good fucking movie, so, like, yeah. Yeah.

Track 3: And it's a weird one, so if you know they can't handle weird movies,

Track 3: oh, fucking subject them to this one.

Track 4: Yeah, it's a little bit easier than trying to get somebody to watch,

Track 4: I don't know, like American Psycho.

Track 4: It's a little bit easier to swallow, I think, in that there's obviously some

Track 4: social commentary underneath it all.

Track 4: Just people interpret it differently, versus I think it's totally possible for

Track 4: a normie to watch American Psycho,

Track 4: and be like no it's actually about how patrick bateman's awesome but.

Track 2: That's totally true uh it's

Track 2: funny you mention american psycho dawson because today uh

Track 2: in my travels while working i saw somebody with a giant patrick bateman decal

Track 2: on the back of their truck it was his face like with the mouth wide open and

Track 2: the blood on it uh and he was like parked at like a gym um so,

Track 2: Listen, I'm not trying to make assumptions about this person.

Track 2: I am making assumptions about this person that they did not understand that movie.

Track 2: And they were in the dude bro gym doing dude bro things thinking Patrick Bateman is awesome.

Track 1: It's i mean that movie is so that like fight club you know like the joker those

Track 1: movies all fit into that uh like box of people who just i saw.

Track 2: That i saw that decal i was just like what the fuck am i am i seeing what i think i'm seeing.

Track 1: You should have if you saw him come out you'd be like did you know that movie

Track 1: was directed by a woman in.

Track 2: A town in jersey known for its racism.

Track 1: That specific town or or new jersey Yeah.

Track 2: No, that specific town. No, the specific town is, like, known for being super racist.

Track 1: Awesome. Well, Dawson, thank you for pitching this movie to do.

Track 1: I think it was very interesting, and honestly, I was thinking about this.

Track 1: Like, you could probably, you know, wipe our men in black, wipe our memories,

Track 1: and then have the conversation again.

Track 1: And I feel like you could go like in a bunch of different directions because

Track 1: it's just a really makes you think a lots of, I mean, maybe our Marxist brain

Track 1: would still turn back on and could have those same ideas.

Track 2: But Dawson, the next time you watch a movie, Dawson, that has the same reaction,

Track 2: I want you to immediately contact us.

Track 4: Okay, I will. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I 100% will.

Track 2: The next time you watch a movie or you're like, God, yeah, no, you email us.

Track 3: Make it happen.

Track 1: Yeah, awesome. Well, Dawson, again, thank you for coming on Left of the Projector,

Track 1: and we will catch everyone next time.