You can know exactly what you want to say, then the moment you hit record, walk into a networking event or start speaking in front of a room, suddenly your voice changes. You speed up, forget to breathe, lose your words or simply don’t sound as confident as you know you can be.

Joanna is joined by Sara Bagheri, founder of Fluence Comms and a speech, language and voice therapist with over 20 years’ clinical experience. They explore what actually makes someone sound confident and authoritative, why nerves affect your voice and the small, practical changes you can make to how you speak - without trying to become someone you’re not.

In this episode:

01:20 – Slow Down and Pause

05:40 – What Nerves Do to Your Voice

10:30 – Release Tension Before Speaking

15:10 – Change Your Pace Naturally

19:00 – Stop Upspeak Undermining You

25:20 – Build Trust in 30 Seconds

30:20 – Practise Before the Big Moment

You don’t need to wait for the big presentation, webinar or networking event to practise. Start using your voice differently in the everyday conversations you’re already having.

Your next step: Record yourself speaking for just 30 seconds. Watch it back with curiosity rather than criticism and notice one thing that worked well and one thing you’d like to practise.

Connect with Sara Bagheri on LinkedIn

Visit Fluence Comms to learn more about working with Sara

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If you’re kind enough to leave a review, please do let Jo know so she can say thank you. You can always reach her at: [email protected]

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Today I am joined by Sara Bagheri, who is founder of Fluence Comms.

2

Sara is a speech, language, and voice

therapist with over 20 years clinical

3

experience working in the NHS, private

practice, and now she coaches media

4

presenters, founders, and corporate

leaders on how to use their voice and

5

communication skills with confidence.

6

So she really is the expert when

it comes to how you sound, how

7

you come across, and how to stop

nerves showing up in your voice.

8

So I'm really excited to have Sara

here today, because this is something

9

I know many of us struggle with.

10

Maybe we know our stuff, but the moment

you hit record or turn up at that meeting,

11

you then can't remember your words or you

don't speak as powerfully as you want to.

12

So welcome, Sara.

13

I'm really, really excited

for this conversation.

14

Speaker 2: Hi, Jo.

15

I'm really excited, too.

16

Thank you so much for

having me on your podcast.

17

Speaker: You are welcome.

18

So I know you have worked with

sports presenters, corporate leaders,

19

and those sort of people need to

speak really well under pressure.

20

What is the single biggest thing that

makes someone sound confident even when

21

they're not particularly feeling it?

22

Speaker 2: The single biggest thing

that helps us sound confident even

23

when we're not feeling it, is really

thinking about our pace of talking,

24

so the speed of our talking, and the

pausing that we can use in our talking.

25

So what tends to happen when we're

really nervous is our pace increases,

26

we kind of hurry through what we want

to say, we forget to pause, and then

27

we get to the end of those live calls

or videos, and we just feel exhausted.

28

when we use a very rapid rate of talking,

it does put a lot of pressure on the

29

body, so we do often get that fatigue,

and that's quite difficult to sustain.

30

So if we think about those two skills,

pace and pausing, what we want to do is

31

to use a slower pace and more deliberate

pausing, and this has an impact twofold.

32

So the first thing, by giving

ourselves more time, it gives us that

33

kind of settling into the live call.

34

We're able to kind of relax a little

bit more, give ourselves more time

35

to think about what we want to say.

36

So it has a direct benefit to ourselves,

but then it also has a benefit for our

37

listeners or those potential clients

that we're trying to make an impact on.

38

So it gives them more time to process

the information or the message

39

that we're trying to get across.

40

And that's essentially what we want

our, our clients to be able to follow

41

our message really easily, to make

sense of what we're saying without

42

having to think, "What did they say?"

43

Or, you know, "I didn't

quite understand that."

44

So we want to make that delivery as

easy as possible for them to understand.

45

And then there's also that kind

of trust element that comes in.

46

If we see someone who seems very

relaxed, very confident in what

47

they're saying, they're really taking

their time over their delivery,

48

their content, we immediately have

more trust, and we believe in that

49

person because they seem to trust

and believe in what they're saying.

50

There's lots of kind of things

which make a difference, but these

51

are the things that I would say

are the key things that I see.

52

Speaker: Ooh, interesting.

53

Yeah, I notice that particularly when I

record my podcast, and luckily the video

54

person I have come to the house always

says, "You can stop at the end of a

55

sentence," 'cause it's much easier when

we edit if you don't just keep talking

56

all the time, all the time, all the time.

57

So yeah, it's definitely something I'm

becoming much more consciously aware of.

58

Speaker 2: Yeah.

59

Absolutely.

60

And I think, like any new communication

skill, it, it does take time to

61

kind of first identify and bring

awareness to what you're doing and

62

what perhaps you want to, to change.

63

And I think it can feel incredibly awkward

and, and uncomfortable when we're doing

64

something differently, and that can put

a lot of people off, taking that risk

65

to, "Oh, actually I do need to work on

my pace, but what if I do sound a little

66

bit robotic or maybe a bit scripted?"

67

Speaker: Yeah, totally.

68

And that's exactly why I get

nervous to make a change.

69

Mm.

70

Because I did once work with

somebody on this, and I felt,

71

it felt so uncomfortable.

72

Speaker 2: Mm.

73

Speaker: And I didn't

feel natural to say…

74

So we were practicing, me just

saying, "Welcome," and then stopping.

75

And I was like, "I cannot just

say 'welcome' and then stop.

76

I have to say, 'Welcome.

77

So happy you're here.'"

78

Like, I, I could not do it.

79

So it was really, really tricky.

80

Speaker 2: And that's so common, Jo.

81

It's really, really common when we do do

something differently, that there is that

82

kind of clunkiness and, and awkwardness.

83

It's like any new skill.

84

It really takes time for

it to feel like ourselves.

85

And, you know, if I'm really honest,

there will be a period of time

86

when it might sound a little bit

odd, and it doesn't sound like you.

87

It, it might sound robotic.

88

But what I do see in clients is that

when we put the practice in, that

89

timeframe of how long it takes to

become more automatic and more natural,

90

we're thinking about something like

for some clients, maybe two weeks.

91

For other clients, it might be longer.

92

But you do get there.

93

But it is putting that practice

and that commitment in.

94

Speaker: Amazing.

95

So what happens physically

in those moments that try and

96

hinder this from being possible?

97

Speaker 2: When we feel quite

nervous, when our voice might sound

98

a little bit shaky, we might rush our

speaking, there is a lot happening on

99

a kind of physical and physiological

level to our body and voice.

100

But perhaps it might be, helpful to talk

about what happens when we have a relaxed

101

voice, a k- kind of comfortable voice.

102

And I won't go into too much detail

about the science, but I do find

103

clients find it quite helpful to

know from a kind of r- a rational

104

perspective, okay, what is going on.

105

That can be quite reassuring when we can

kind of make sense of what's happening

106

from of scientific, perspective.

107

So if you feel your throat, you can

feel a kind of lumpy, quite cartilag-

108

cartilaginous, structure here, and

that's your larynx or your voice box.

109

And within your voice box,

you have two vocal folds, So

110

the vocal folds are two bands.

111

They're made of, tissue, and they're

mus- muscle as well, and they come

112

together in this really, like, beautiful

symmetrical way, and they can vibrate

113

quite quickly if we want a higher pitch,

and quite slowly if we want a lower pitch.

114

And all of that, kind of voice, if you

like, starts in our, our diaphragm.

115

So the air comes up through the lungs,

passes through our vocal folds, they start

116

to vibrate to create sound, and then they

move into this structure which we call

117

our articulators, our nose, our mouth,

our lips, and then they shape the sound

118

so that they're identifiable into words.

119

So when that's all working really

well, we can speak really easily and

120

comfortably, but as you say, when we

get stressed or when we feel nervous,

121

the body almost goes into this fight or

flight response, and it thinks there's

122

a perceived danger here, which is often

for many of us, the act of speaking, you

123

know, especially in front of people or if

we're doing a webinar, or for some people

124

it could even be just that one-to-one.

125

we all have different thresholds of

what we find challenging and scary.

126

So the body perceives a threat, and

you'll often get kind of increased

127

heart rate, you might start to

sweat, you might get a bit of a,

128

a kind of a tremor in your voice.

129

And one of the biggest things that we

see is a lot of tension, particularly

130

around the shoulders, around the

neck, and around the vocal folds

131

as well, around the throat area.

132

So you can see if we have a lot

of tension, that is gonna affect

133

what we call our speech output.

134

And what I mean by that is how we

coordinate our speaking, how we coordinate

135

the breath, how we coordinate that

breath coming through the vocal folds,

136

and then using those articulators.

137

So we get a lot of those, symptoms,

if you like, of looking and

138

feeling and sounding nervous.

139

So one of the things I would recommend is

we wanna try and remove all that tension.

140

We want to kind of tell

the body it's okay.

141

We're calm, we wanna move out

of that fight-flight state and

142

activate the nervous system.

143

So I don't know if you experience

any of those things, Jo.

144

it's quite varied in terms of how

people feel when they're speaking.

145

Speaker: Yeah, totally.

146

let me think

147

I definitely, I, I think I

hold my breath quite a lot.

148

I probably wouldn't say it's always

nerves, 'cause I- Mm-hmm … I

149

do calls a- all day long, but

I definitely wouldn't say I'm

150

feeling all relaxed and everything.

151

I'm, like, busy and therefore maybe

not consciously thinking about

152

how I'm speaking and slowing down.

153

Speaker 2: As you say, sometimes it might

not be nerves that's causing the tension.

154

It could be other kind of

stress factors as well.

155

If you know you've got a really busy

day of back-to-back calls or, like

156

many of us, if you've had a really

stressful morning coordinating lots

157

of logistics with your childcare, then

your body might just feel tense, and

158

we want to let go of that tension.

159

So I wonder if it would be

helpful to share a muscle tension

160

exercise that, I use with clients.

161

I can walk you through that

if that would be helpful.

162

Speaker: Love it.

163

Yes, I'm always up for this, and then

obviously I'll have this for the future,

164

and we will all have this for the

future, so we'll know exactly what to

165

do before a discovery call, a webinar,

a talk, or whatever we're doing.

166

So thanks, Sara.

167

Excited to try it.

168

Speaker 2: So there's lots of different

versions of this particular exercise,

169

and this one is called a progressive

whole body release of tension exercise.

170

But essentially what we're doing is we are

bringing attention to different parts of

171

the body where we might hold tension and

contracting those muscles, holding them

172

really tight, and then releasing them.

173

So there's lots of kind of different

lengths of this exercise you can do.

174

You know, you could do

a quick 60-second one.

175

You could do a two-minute or a five-minute

version, and I will often record

176

audios of this to share with clients.

177

So if…

178

I can always send you one, or if your,

listeners were interested in, in hearing

179

it, I'm happy to share that as well.

180

Speaker: Oh, that would be amazing.

181

Speaker 2: Just take a moment and

allow your hands to rest naturally.

182

Let your feet rest on the floor.

183

And absolutely just close the eyes down

if that feels really comfortable for

184

you, and gently bring your attention

to your breathing and notice the breath

185

as it moves in and as it moves out.

186

And just allow it to find a

really easy, steady rhythm.

187

Now bring your awareness to

your feet and your lower legs.

188

So gently tense your toes, your

feet, and your calves all together.

189

Hold for three, two, one, and release.

190

Now bring your awareness to

your belly and your lower back.

191

Gently draw the muscles in.

192

Hold for three, two, one, and release.

193

Move your attention to your chest

and upper back and shoulders.

194

Gently tense across the

chest and shoulders.

195

Hold for three, two, one, and release.

196

Bring your awareness

to your hands and arms.

197

Gently curl the fingers, tense the arms.

198

Hold for three, two, one, and release

199

Move your attention to your neck and jaw.

200

Very gently tense, hold for

three, two, one, and release.

201

And finally, bring your awareness

to your face, the top of your head.

202

Scrunch the facial muscles

if you feel comfortable.

203

Hold for three, two, one, and release.

204

And just take a moment to

notice your whole body now.

205

Your body's soft, your body is

calm, your breathing is steady,

206

and you can now carry this sense of

ease into your voice and speaking

207

If you open the eyes

208

Speaker: Oh, goodness me.

209

Feel great.

210

Thank you.

211

Speaker 2: It's, it…

212

I do like it because breathing exercises

are fantastic, but the combination of

213

the breathing exercise and the muscle

tension exercise is really quite powerful.

214

And you can do it, you know, when you're

on the train or the tube or the bus.

215

You can make it quite subtle.

216

You can almost put your own spin on it.

217

and you can do it for as long,

you can extend the length of

218

time you hold the tension for.

219

So I'd really encourage anybody who does

feel that tension to, to give it a go.

220

Speaker: I mean, it's crazy what

a difference it makes, isn't it?

221

If I could just spend one minute

prior to a call or whatever I'm

222

doing, actually doing that type of

exercise, it makes a huge difference.

223

So when I hold in-person events, I often

do an exercise like that at the beginning,

224

and I'm usually the one that needs it the

most 'cause clearly I'm the one up there.

225

But even though I'm talking it

through- Mm … I feel so much better,

226

and everybody in the room does.

227

So it always astounds me how just,

like, one minute or something of doing

228

something like that can completely

change how grounded you feel.

229

Speaker 2: And, you know, I often

kind of talk to clients about when

230

you do go into a call, you will

have a sense of kind of preparing.

231

You'll probably have, make

sure your laptop's charged.

232

You will have your notepad and

pen, if you're that kind of person.

233

You'll have your water.

234

So if we can add to that routine,

it, it does become a little

235

bit more automatic, you know?

236

There's lots of things that I

should be practicing more of, so

237

I, I do understand that it is hard

sometimes to add something additional.

238

But, it is something I get a

lot of feedback that it does

239

really make a difference.

240

Speaker: Oh, it does, totally.

241

So let's talk about pace then, 'cause you

said that that was really important, and

242

when someone's nervous, they tend to rush.

243

Speaker 2: Mm.

244

Speaker: How do we, as well as the

breathing exercises, train ourselves

245

to slow down without feeling robotic?

246

Speaker 2: Yes, and I think that idea of

robotic and scripted comes up quite a lot.

247

And if we kind of think about quite

specifically about why somebody sounds

248

robotic or why they sound scripted, it's

often because they are using one type of

249

pace, and usually it's that slower pace.

250

So with anything, contrast is our friend.

251

Mm.

252

So if we can use a bit of slower

pace, particularly if we're talking

253

about new concepts or frameworks or

explaining something quite complex, or

254

we're meeting somebody new who'll be

unfamiliar with our communication style,

255

a slow pace definitely has its place.

256

But we also want to contrast that with

a, a kind of faster, kind of a quicker

257

pace to show energy and enthusiasm.

258

So it's having your tool bag,

if you like, of different paces

259

that you can pick and mix.

260

The other thing that we, we see

is sometimes we can use what's

261

called unusual pausing, so that

gives it that robotic element.

262

So people may pause mid-sentence,

which is quite an odd thing, and

263

when you hear that, it can sound like

it's not particularly conversational.

264

or they might pause after a really long

kind of train of thought, and that can

265

make it sound quite scripted because you

can tell that that person just wanted

266

to get to the end of that paragraph that

they had maybe written out verbatim.

267

So I would say if we can use a variation

of pace, that's really quite helpful.

268

Yeah.

269

And I was gonna say the, the kind of first

thing I would do in terms of making those

270

changes is the self-awareness aspect.

271

And you talked about this, that, you

know, when we watch videos or when we

272

listen to ourselves, that's a great

opportunity to just, I kinda call it

273

diagnostic listening, which is, okay,

what am I doing with my pace there?

274

Oh, and, and notice it.

275

Try not to be critical, but just using

it as an opportunity for gathering data.

276

and then the second aspect,

which again you spoke about,

277

was this idea of practice.

278

And I would always practice with what I

call very, a kind of a very low, demand.

279

We call it kind of low cognitive

load or low language load, which

280

would be things like days of the

week or counting, saying your name.

281

And then we would build up

to introductions or maybe

282

talking about a, a new program.

283

So it's graded.

284

We're not going straight from, okay,

I struggle with using a faster pace.

285

I'm gonna go from straight

to talking about a paragraph

286

or a framework of things.

287

So it's about that graded, , practice

288

Speaker: When I started my podcast,

that was the biggest wake-up call,

289

I suppose, for me because in the

editing software, it punctuates it.

290

So you can see sometimes where I might

pause mid-sentence, so there's a full

291

stop there when there really shouldn't

be, or that there's no full stop for

292

ages because I just keep on talking.

293

So it's been really great to gain

that awareness, of my speaking.

294

And I think the one other thing that

I'd love to know more about is the

295

age-old habit of raising your voice

at the end of a sentence- Mm … like

296

Speaker 2: you're

297

Speaker: asking a question, 'cause

again, the punctuation will be

298

a question and, and it wasn't a

question, to maybe sound more likable.

299

Is that, is that a thing?

300

And tell me more about that.

301

Speaker 2: I, I hear, upspeak a lot.

302

And, you know, upspeak comes from,

you know, various parts of the

303

world, but typically kind of New

Zealand, Australia, but they're

304

not just isolated to that country.

305

I think if you listen to some of the

more popular shows on ITV, for example,

306

Love Island, there is a lot of upspeak.

307

And just to define what upspeak is,

upspeak, as you, you said, is it's this

308

rising at the end of your sentence.

309

And rising, in our speeches

is absolutely fine.

310

We do it a lot, as you say, when

we ask questions or maybe when

311

we're listing things as well.

312

You know, I need, you know, no latte.

313

I need a cappuccino.

314

So it has its place, but as you said, when

we overuse upspeak and we use it in a way

315

when it isn't supposed to be a question,

it creates a lot of uncertainty and it's

316

quite confusing for the listener as well.

317

Are you asking me a question?

318

Are you not?

319

Are you certain about your message?

320

And if I give you an example,

I'll take my introduction.

321

So hi, I'm Sara.

322

My company's called Fluence.

323

I'm the founder of Fluence.

324

And I'll just give two contrasting

examples of upspeak, where the pitch

325

goes up, it rises, and then I'll

contrast that with the pitch falling

326

so it's more like a statement.

327

And we'll just see if we

can hear that difference.

328

So number one, with upspeak.

329

Hi, I'm Sara.

330

I'm the founder of Fluence.

331

Okay, so upspeak.

332

And th- there does seem a kind of

a younger quality to that as well.

333

I don't know if, if, if you pick that up.

334

Definitely.

335

And I'll contrast that with

the, the fall in the pitch.

336

Hi, I'm Sara, founder of Fluence.

337

Speaker: Amazing difference, isn't it?

338

Speaker 2: Yeah.

339

you think it's just something so

subtle, so little, but it does.

340

It really, makes you feel more

credible, and you feel more

341

certain about what you're saying.

342

Speaker: Yeah, exactly.

343

So any tips on that one?

344

Or just is it awareness and

345

… Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for some people

it really is quite a habitual pattern,

346

and our speaking patterns are very

much influenced by who we connect with.

347

So, you know, I gave this example

of Love Island, 'cause lots of my

348

clients are talking about they have

teens who are watching it, and when

349

they hear the Love Island talk,

they can hear all the upspeak.

350

So it's really important to, to get

curious about what you're listening to.

351

So if you're listening to lots of

podcasts or TV where there is a lot of

352

upspeak, you will be influenced by that.

353

Or if you have friends and family

members who use a lot of upspeak,

354

that will influence you as well.

355

So just, I would say, get curious about

how much upspeak you're exposed to.

356

And then as you said, it's that awareness,

that self-awareness of when you're

357

doing it and trying to catch yourself.

358

Yeah.

359

And I think just how I modeled

there, that contrast, doing lots

360

of what we call contrast practice.

361

So get really playful about saying

a sentence, maybe saying your

362

introduction with that upspeak, and

then contrasting it with that more

363

statement, that kind of drop in pitch.

364

Speaker: So tell us more about pitch then.

365

I suppose it's kind of related to that,

but I guess generally we perceive a

366

lower pitch to be more authoritative.

367

What are your thoughts on this?

368

Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's really

interesting about pitch and this idea

369

that low pitch means more authoritative,

and typically low pitch is perceived

370

as a more masculine sounding voice.

371

And I think all those examples

from, you know, Margaret Thatcher

372

and Theresa May, you know, that

political space, we hear that a lot.

373

But I would say there has been quite

a shift, certainly, I've seen in the

374

last kind of five, 10 years, that- Does

lower pitch actually mean authoritative?

375

And the reason I say that is because

pitch is just what we call one parameter

376

of our communication, and parameter just

means, like, one feature or one skill.

377

And we have over, like, 30 different

parameters of our communication skills,

378

which, when I work with a client, when we

do the assessment, we would go through all

379

of those different parameters together.

380

And it's not just one thing that makes a

difference to our sounding authoritative.

381

It's a combination of things.

382

We spoke earlier about having the pace

and the pausing, but it's also things

383

like our non-verbal communication skills.

384

That can make a real difference to

how we're perceived, and also the

385

expression that we put into our voices.

386

So for me, personally, I have worked

on pitch before, and it's, it's a

387

skill, as you say, that we, we all

have the capacity to change our

388

pitch, to make it lower or higher.

389

But what can happen when we try and use a

lower pitch, particularly one that might

390

be out of our comfortable range, is we

can then get a flatter, more monotonous

391

style of talking, and we don't want that.

392

So I would s- I'd say that the

kind of, there is a shift occurring

393

in how we perceive communication.

394

And the other thing to really think

about is context really matters.

395

So authoritative in a coaching call will

look really different for - a sports

396

presenter who's being authoritative.

397

You know, in a sports presenting

environment, authoritative

398

might look like adaptability.

399

It might look like energy.

400

Whereas if we're on a coaching call

or maybe if we're going into a board

401

meeting, it might be more direct.

402

It might be more formal.

403

So I think it's about thinking,

thinking about your individual, skills

404

and your individual context as well,

because that will define what looks

405

and feels authoritative for you.

406

Speaker: So what vocal habits make

a listener trust us within the

407

first 30 seconds, say, if we're

thinking about a webinar, a discovery

408

call, something we're doing?

409

Speaker 2: Yes, and I think, thinking

about vocal habits which both kind

410

of undermine and boost credibility

is really, really important.

411

And I think certainly for so many

of us, those first 30 seconds can

412

feel quite loaded, and we really

want to make a good impression.

413

Often I'll kind of talk to clients

about, in that first 30 seconds, what

414

is your listener wanting to find out?

415

What questions are they

maybe percolating over?

416

And there will be a lot of questions, but

for me, some of those key questions will

417

be, are they genuinely engaged in what

I'm saying or what I'm talking about?

418

Is this person the expert

in what they're saying?

419

So I would say technique-wise,

clarity is really important.

420

So in that 30 seconds, is

your message really clear?

421

Are you able to say who you are,

what you do, and why your service

422

matters or the value that you add?

423

So being really clear in your

messaging, and I think there's nothing

424

wrong with writing out verbatim

what that is and practicing it.

425

And you can also see where are the,

kind of more generic or filler words

426

that you can just put a cross through.

427

Take those out.

428

So I'd say clarity is

one of the key things.

429

The second thing I would say is active

listening skills, and really thinking

430

about the non-verbal communication skills.

431

So how are you in terms of showing

those, those listening skills?

432

Do you kind of nod?

433

Many of us kind of move

our head to the side.

434

We might smile.

435

We might mirror facial expression.

436

So I think if you could add t-

those two skills into your kind of

437

repertoire of things, they'll make a big

difference for that first 30 seconds.

438

Speaker: Yeah, totally.

439

And actually, coincidently, just

before this call, I had a call with

440

a client who said, "As soon as I go

to the networking meeting-" I just

441

freeze and can't bear to say my-

442

pitch statement.

443

What would happen, or, like, what's

your advice to someone who does go and

444

they might practice, or they feel like

they've got it nailed, and I've practiced

445

with this client quite a lot now.

446

She's brilliant at it when

we- Mm … have our calls.

447

Speaker 2: Mm.

448

Speaker: And then I guess you just get

there, and maybe you compare yourself

449

was a big theme, of like, "They sound way

more important than me," so then maybe she

450

downplays who she is because she thinks

she doesn't sound as fancy as that person.

451

So any tips on that one?

452

Speaker 2: Yeah.

453

No, there's a couple of things

that are coming up for me.

454

I think one of them is this idea about

how critical we are of ourselves.

455

We can be incred- you know, if we

listen to our voice, we can think,

456

"Oh, I don't like how I sound."

457

and then I think the video aspect as

well, that can bring a whole nother layer

458

of, you know, analyzing how we look.

459

And, you know, I think

editing is brilliant.

460

It has a lot of, wonderful

things that it helps us with.

461

But it also presents this really

polished version of communication

462

that just doesn't exist.

463

, We do stumble over our words, we

do forget what we want to say,

464

we do lose our trail of thought.

465

I think that expectation that we put

on ourselves because of what we see

466

and hear online really does create, a

lot of tension, and it can really put

467

people off from taking those risks and

going out to those network meetings.

468

So I think a mindset

piece is really important.

469

So if I have a client, for example,

who says, "I hate the sound of my own

470

voice," we would really try and unpack,

okay, what are some other more neutral

471

thoughts that would be more helpful?

472

Because we know that when we think a

thought like, "I hate the sound of my

473

voice," it creates a feeling, feelings

around self-doubt, incompetence.

474

And when we have those feelings, the

actions that we take as a result, or the

475

actions that we don't take as a result,

like not showing up in the networking

476

meetings or not saying what we want to

say, or we might feel those more physical,

477

kind of aspects of our voice failing us.

478

So doing that mindset piece is really

important as well as technique.

479

So I'd say that's a mindset piece.

480

And then the other thing that came to

me when you spoke about we go to these

481

network meetings and it can feel, they can

feel huge, is I'm a really, big advocate

482

of what I call low-stake demands, kind of

low-stake vocal demands, and high-stake.

483

So kind of thinking of it

as a ladder, if you like.

484

So at the bottom it might

be talking to your son, your

485

daughter, or a family member.

486

It might be then going in and ordering

a coffee and I'm not talking about

487

using the the digital machines.

488

I'm actually going and

speaking to a barista.

489

And then it might be, you know, if you

go shopping or, just trying to have more

490

of those spontaneous conversations where

you're using your voice, practicing

491

maybe some of those techniques.

492

And then when you go into those high,

what we call high-stake speaking

493

demands, like the networking event,

you've moved up through the ladder.

494

So you're not just jumping from

maybe a low-stake demand to a

495

high-stake demand, and that can

make a real difference as well.

496

Speaker: Oh, so genius.

497

I love the idea of that because I think

that's just what we don't do, is it.

498

We think, "I've got this big presentation.

499

Everything needs to be ready for that."

500

And we never think to just

practice it in real life.

501

And then the first time we ever really

get to practice it is when we're staying

502

in that high-stake situation, and we're

thinking, "Oh my goodness," like, "I've,

503

I've never really done this before."

504

So we are often talking all

day if we're hosting workshops,

505

trainings, that type of thing.

506

How do we protect our voice so

it's not exhausted by the end of

507

the day or the end of the week?

508

Speaker 2: So one of the things

I would think about is this idea

509

of what we call, vocal demands.

510

And as you say, live calls, webinars,

recording information, going to network

511

events all kind of adds to our, our

vocal demand or our vocal energy bank.

512

So that all those hours that we

spend talking kind of contribute.

513

So we'll have some days which are

heavier and some days which are lighter.

514

So I would really get, kind of bring

awareness, if you like, and get quite

515

curious about what days are heavier.

516

And on those heavier days, building in

really short what we call vocal rests.

517

And we're not talking like

not speaking for hours.

518

10 minutes, five, 10 minutes,

or even three minutes where

519

you're just resting that voice.

520

And particularly if you, you know,

are … For many of us as coaches,

521

as, consultants, our voice , is

fundamental to what we do.

522

You know, if we don't have that

voice, we don't have that strong

523

voice, it means that we can't connect

in those clients in the same way.

524

So I would say think about what

days are heavier and lighter.

525

The other thing I would think about

is hydration, and I think most of

526

us, I can see both, both of us kind

of sipping our water, sipping water

527

throughout the day rather than just

glugging a whole bottle of water.

528

And that's brilliant hydration through

water, because how that works is

529

it indirectly supports the vocal

folds by keeping them really, moist.

530

It means that they can be more flexible,

they can vibrate really smoothly.

531

But that's only indirect hydration.

532

If you think when we drink water, it

goes into our tummies, and then it go-

533

goes out through our bloodstream into

the tissues, including the vocal folds.

534

But what's really effective is if we can

give the vocal folds direct hydration,

535

and that's why I love steam inhalation.

536

So if you have, a gym that you

go to and they have a steam

537

room, get into the steam room.

538

Or you can just be really old school,

head over a bowl of water, towel

539

over your head, and that provides

direct hydration, and it's immediate.

540

So if you feel like your voice is

really hoarse or really tired or

541

achy, I would do the steam hydration.

542

Speaker: Oh, love it.

543

It brings back the days of me doing that

as a child when I had a cold or something.

544

My mum would always make me get

the towel over my head with a bowl.

545

Speaker 2: I think it is something which,

lots of my clients will, will use now.

546

As you say, it's building in

those habits where you can.

547

so the hydration aspect

is really important.

548

And then, as you say it's funny,

we often pay more attention to our

549

voice when it starts to let us down

or when it- Yeah … feels fatigue.

550

So I think if we can look after our

voice when it's healthy, it also helps

551

us notice when things are going wrong.

552

And just with my speech and language

head on, I would say if you do find

553

that you have a persistent cough or

persistent hoarseness for more than three

554

weeks in the absence of a cold, that is

something that I would talk to a GP about.

555

Because that can sometimes mean that you

might need to just have something like

556

ENT just to check that the vocal folds

and the larynx is all quite healthy.

557

Speaker: So if somebody is doing

lives or showing up on video for the

558

first time or, dreading how they sound

or they don't wanna watch it back.

559

Mm.

560

Where would they start with that?

561

Speaker 2: Oh, yes.

562

Watching yourself on video and listening

to yourself online, it really brings

563

up a lot of strong feelings for people.

564

And, you know, I'm sure both

myself and you, Jo, you know,

565

we'll probably watch ourselves

back and think, "Oh, that worked.

566

That didn't work."

567

But it's that curious mindset and

that's what I often talk to clients

568

about is, like, try not to have that

critical voice when you're analyzing.

569

Try and bring more of a curious

voice, "Okay, that, that worked.

570

That didn't work.

571

Oh, that…

572

I, oh, I liked how I sounded in

that part," or, "I answered that

573

question really well," so that

you're, you're gathering lots of data.

574

I think we can be so critical and

look at all the things that didn't

575

work, and that's, that's important

information, but sometimes the gold

576

is in where things did work and

what was happening with our voice.

577

So I would say get curious in a

really supportive, compassionate way.

578

we've talked about that mindset

piece, so can we change some of those

579

thoughts to help us show up more

confidently on those calls, to take

580

that risk of putting out that video?

581

And then the other thing would be

linking in with this idea of, grading,

582

that gradual approach to recording

and, videos and audios, is can we just

583

record a 30-second video of ourself?

584

Can we send it to maybe a

trusted coach or a mentor or a

585

family member and then build up?

586

You know, we don't always have

to go for that big 30-minute,

587

webinar as a starting point.

588

build in lots of opportunities

before you do that so you feel

589

really comfortable with your voice

590

Speaker: I'm so excited to try

so many of these things, Sara.

591

Where can we find you, and how

can you help our listeners?

592

Speaker 2: Oh, I would love to

speak with some of your listeners.

593

Fluence is based in Liverpool Street in

London, so I offer in-person sessions,

594

but I also offer online sessions to,

clients who might not live in London.

595

And one of the most popular services,

we offer at Fluence is what's

596

called the signature assessment.

597

I think earlier you may have

heard me talk about this idea of

598

the parameters of communication.

599

We have over 30 of those different

parameters, so that's where I do a really

600

comprehensive assessment with the client

so they can really work out, "What's

601

working for me," all of that good stuff,

and, "Where are the areas that I might

602

need to pay a little bit more attention to

and learn some technique or some mindset?"

603

So the assessment is a great place

for clients to start, and equally,

604

if you have something quite bespoke

that you want training for, maybe the

605

webinar, maybe a podcast appearance,

I offer really tailored, personalized

606

sessions around the clients.

607

Speaker: Amazing, Sara.

608

And so where is the

best place to find you?

609

Is it, like, LinkedIn, website?

610

Speaker 2: Yeah, so LinkedIn

is, my home, my preferred home.

611

I'm really active on

there, so do reach out.

612

My name is Sara Bagheri, or you

can have a look at my website,

613

which is fluencecomms.co.uk.

614

Speaker: I'm, yeah, really excited

to get to work on many of the

615

things that we covered today,

so thank you so, so much, Sara.

616

Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much, Jo.

617

It's lovely talking to you.