Gigantic birds. They’re fricking terrifying . And there might be some kind of genetic memory (or epigentic inheritance) as to why when CNN posts headlines like “Bones reveal Neanderthal child was eaten by a giant bird”. We’ve had Seth Breedlove talk about his Terror In The Skies documentary which talks specifically about giant birds in Illinois, but in this episode we wanted to widen the net.

First of all, we recorded this episode in Alton, IL during the American Hauntings 2020 Dead of Winter event. Alton is famous not only for birthing the tallest man in the world, but for a giant scary bird mural on the side of a cliff on the Mississippi River. The “Piasa Bird”

We’ve discussed in the past where the word Piasa came from and the original Indian legends surrounding it but Allison Jornlin from Milwaukee Ghosts has some really interesting research in how the Piasa bird might not have originally been a bird at all, but a very different monster of Indian legend and can even trace its origins to a very real predator. So, is the Piasa monster really supposed to be a scary giant bird? We delve in.

Then it’s time to talk about other monster bird attacks in history and actual newspaper reports and eyewitness sightings. My personal favorite is this one in Texas where you can just hear the racism dripping off this Police Captain’s words…

However this next story is a little too sad and this 1926 article about a 2 year old infant being murdered by a giant condor in Argentina was too much for even a stone heart like mine to take.

We also tell the story of our cousin who saw a Thunderbird himself in the late 80s while in a Southeastern Wisconsin hospital awaiting the birth of his first son. Here’s how he describes the size of what he saw:

In this episode, we tackle all these giant bird stories as well as coming up with a brand new Sunspot paranormal rock song.

Winston Churchill famously said, “He who controls the skies controls the war.” and as earthbound creatures, there’s something extra terrifying about being attacked from the sky. Airborne predators pick their targets from far away and swoop in to snatch their prey. The stories of these giant bird attacks are certainly arbitrary and horrifying. It makes us realize how precarious and precious our life is when we we live on a knife edge of randomness. Whether it’s cancer, tsunamis, car accidents, or gigantic condor kidnappings, we all live under the constant threat of “Death From Above”.

Welcome to See You on the Other Mike, where the world of

the mysterious collides with the world of entertainment.

A discussion of art, music, movies, spirituality,

the weird and self discovery. And

now, your hosts, musicians and entertainers

who have their own weakness for the weird, Mike and

Wendy from the band Sunspot. Episode

284, when Big Bird attacks

avian death from above. Yeah. Greetings.

Live on location. Allison, my sister

Hey, everybody. And I are at the

Best Western in Alton, Illinois. That's

right. Beautiful Alton, Illinois. Yes. Live from

the dead of winter paranormal event. Allison was

a featured speaker at the paranormal event today. I was. And Allison,

what'd you talk about? I talked about, paranormal

women, hidden history. So talk about Mike you mean like paranormal

women? Like women that are just freaky? Yeah.

No. Talk I was talking about, investigators. How

female investigators have really been leaders in

parapsychology and in paranormal investigation,

since the 1800. But largely

today, they're unknown and their accomplishments and

contributions to the field have been

largely unsung. So, you know, many people

don't even know the names of these people whereas, you know, they

know the name of Zac Bagans but they don't know, you know, like who

who brought who brought the terms, you know, poltergeist

into English language usage or, you know, they don't know the

people who pioneered the the concepts. So that's what you were going over today.

Used today. Yeah. That's awesome. And, so is it that was a great presentation.

So this, we've been to Alton a a 1000000 times now.

Yes. A 1000000 since Mike Troy Taylor who

organizes it was telling telling me that see I was

thinking that I first started coming here in,

like, 2,000 but he he thought it was even before that that

it it might have been the late nineties. Well, I'd know that you'd already known

him in 2000 because we ran into him in New Orleans in, like,

May of 2000. Alright. So we were on a family trip. Actually, one Mike.

This is funny. So we're at the, Allison and I were on a family trip.

We went on every single ghost and vampire tour we could find in New Orleans

at the time. That's right. Now there are too many. But at the time you

there you could take, Mike, only a few of them. We went on all of

them and then we go to Jean Lafitte's Blacksmith shop which is the

oldest bar in New Orleans. Yeah. And also it's super haunted.

Like people see ghosts in the fire there's like a there's a fireplace in the

middle of Jean Lafitte's and it's not really a big bar. Jean Lafitte's a small

place. It's got a bunch of, a bunch of seating outside

but it's a tiny place and there's a fireplace right in the

middle and people will see like weird shapes and ghosts in the

fireplace of Jean Lafitte. Mike, and he also was a very

famous pirate, in the

late 18th century and early 19th century. So anyway, we're standing in

line because I wanna get a drink at the oldest bar in New Orleans. Mhmm.

And as we stand in line, we just randomly are

Allison's like, I think I know that guy. Right behind Troy Taylor

who runs this event and he also runs the,

American Hauntings. The haunted American convention that

happens in Alton, Illinois. Alton is about, I don't know, 25 or

30 minutes from Saint Louis. Yeah. Right across the

Mississippi from Saint Louis. Mhmm. And so, we've we've

done several different podcasts from his conventions. But it's just a random thing is

that so by 2,000, you already knew him well enough that you're like, that's Troy

Taylor. And so you guys knew each other. So, yes. Okay. You've been coming here

since the late nineties and which basically makes you 9000

years old. I know. I'm talking to Methuselah. But he's also 9000

years old. Right. So it it is. I feel like I'm sitting here in this

hotel room on a couch next to Mel Brooks, the 2000 year old

man telling me about all the stuff that happened in the late nineties. Anyway,

so we love this convention. If you guys are into the paranormal, you have

read Troy Taylor's work and so we had a good time today. Allison delivered a

good presentation and then they they did their podcast, the American

Hauntings podcast. People that have been in the podcast

before, Tobias from the singular Fordian

Society was there doing a a presentation. He's been on our podcast

before. And, they also had a very interesting

tour guide from Louisville, Kentucky to tell to tell

about a homeless guy getting stabbed. So No. He got bludgeoned with a

hammer. Well, that's right. Bang bang Maxwell. It

was one of those stories, but it's a pretty good story. So I can't wait

to go back to Louisville and take the Louisville ghost walk so that I can

get bang bang by Maxwell. That's right. But so that

was just Mike the speakers, but it was a really positive

event where they raised a bunch of they had a bunch of stuff for charity.

Yeah. It was free. All you had to do was bring in, some

non perishable food items. So there was

just a ton of donations today, like a

mountain of donations. So that was a really positive thing. Right. So the reason we

wanted to do something from Alton, Illinois and talk about Alton, Illinois is

number 1, is that Alton, Illinois has something we've talked

about a little bit on the podcast before. When we talked

with, Seth Breedlove of the Small

Town Monsters series, he did a show called Terror in the

Skies. Yeah. And Allison, you were in Terror in the Skies Yep. But not and

so was Troy. And so in terror in the skies, they talk about

this, like, Pia Sawbird is what they call it, but it's

it's a glyph. Is it just a glyph, a petroglyph?

It's a pictograph, It's pictograph? Yes. Thank you,

professor. Yes. Yes. Tell me about the pictograph again. Well, it's a

pictograph because it's a painting on, the

one of the limestone bluffs, but here

in in Alton, Illinois and it's a very

large painting, of a huge

winged creature and it's been dubbed the

Piasawbird. But as I

found out in my research, it is not a

bird at all and, Well, we're we're gonna get to that. Yes. We'll

get to that. This episode is about giant birds at TTEC and we wanted to

talk about the Pyeasawbird because Alden is famous for this.

They've redone the pictograph on the side of the bluff. Yes. Many times. But you

go see it. It just looked like a big monster picture on the side of

the bluff. It's Yeah. It's a big monster picture and you know,

originally it was a big monster picture picture. But we'll talk about what that

monster was. But in saying that, that doesn't mean that there

aren't monster birds flying in the skies of Illinois

and other states like Wisconsin, Texas. There's monster birds

over your house tonight. Yes. And what they can Don't go outside. Right.

After dark. They're just gonna eat you alive. That's

right. But the thing is, you know, we should talk a little bit about

the thunderbird because that is kind of where I think

a lot of our ideas of where monster birds come

from is this, American Indian

legend of the thunderbird. And so, when I grew up, I

thought the thunderbird was just a sweet car and I thought I could get one

and pick up some nice looking ladies in my sweet Thunderbird car.

But Allison, what's a little Mike, what do you know about the Thunderbird? Well, okay.

So I, for 13 years, taught at a native school.

And so that's where I derive my learning about the

thunderbird because, the thunderbird is, of

course, this large bird. You know, like

a monster bird. I mean, everybody's

got that right that it's a bird of huge dimensions. Right? Sure.

And It's like it's like big bird from Sesame Street. No.

But flying. It's nothing like that. Like, big bird from Sesame Street doesn't fly.

No. No. No. But it's not, you know, big, puffy, and yellow like that.

Okay. I mean, it's Okay. It's it's a formidable,

creature. It's big and it was called

the thunderbird because it was associated with thunderstorms

and lightning and thunder, as,

being in some way caused by this beast. Okay.

And and so it's funny because in one of the

haunted history tours, that are part of American Ghost

Walks is in a place called Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. And when I

was asking Linda Godfrey actually, Linda Godfrey who the the woman who

gave us the beast of Bray Road or who reported on it. Yes.

She, you know, she lives near Lake Geneva and I was asking her if she

knew any ghost stories. And the first thing she was saying was that Lake

Geneva is the place where they thought that the thunderbird

battled its mortal enemy, the water panther. And so

when the storms would roll in over Now, this is a

fairly big lake about, I'd say 50 miles north of

Chicago, between Chicago and Milwaukee. It's a it's a fairly big Mike it's a

vacation spot. It's where all of the,

like rich Chicagoans moved in the middle of 19th

century after the great Chicago fire. After that happened

in 18/71, a lot of wealthy Chicago

families Mike the Wrigley's of of gum

fame, of Wrigley Field fame, like the Maytags,

of the dishwasher fame, and, what was

it? Westinghouse. Anyways, what it's no. It's it's the

Wrigleys, Maytags, and, these rich Chicago

families who become very famous including the guy the named Maxwell street days after

Robert Maxwell. They all moved up to Lake Geneva because

their houses burned down in Chicago. Wow. And so this

became a, like, a vacation spot and a playground for the rich.

And so now it is still a vacation spot even though most of

those families have sold the houses and they're now museums and things like that.

But it's a very haunted place and part of that goes all the

way back to the legends about the lake where the thunderbird when

the storms would roll in, the thunderbird would fight the water panther in

the bays of Lake Geneva. Yeah. So what's interesting about the

thunderbird is although it's huge, I mean

it's powerful. It's freaking huge lightning. It shoots lightning

out of its eyes. We got three sizes. You know, when it shoots

lightning out of its eyes, I mean that sounds scary. But,

in the tradition of at least, you know,

many of the native cultures of this area Right.

And we're talking about this area. We're talking about Illinois, Wisconsin. Yeah. We're talking about

the woodland Maybe even Minnesota, but we don't really trust them. The the

woodland tribes. So their

their idea of the thunderbird is as more of a

protective influence. So the school where I worked,

what we would do every spring is we had a spirit pole,

which is a large, straight pine

pole, that has different offerings on the top. It's

not like the Festivus pole. No. No. But it's But the spirit pole what

kinda offerings at the top though? I'm interested in that. Like what will they be

Mike a little tobacco pouches, in various

colors. So the school That were tied to It wasn't a zero tolerance tobacco policy

in school. No. Because we used tobacco in the Sager way. Oh,

cool. Yeah. Nobody smoked tobacco. Although I did smoke a piece

of pipe. But, you know Nobody smoked During a

ceremony. Except for me. During a ceremony. Fat piece pipe.

During a ceremony. But, so, you know,

that that would be tied to the top. Okay. And and so every spring we

would rededicate it. We'd refresh the pole and

the offerings and then we'd have a big ceremony around it

to rededicate the pole for the upcoming storm

season. And then the ceremony was to ask the

thunderbird for protection from the coming storms.

And I love it. And I tell you why I love it. Because I used

to think that ceremonies were stupid. Okay. No. I mean, I just did. I thought,

like, okay. Even if it was a wedding or,

baptism So you weren't a fan of ritual? No. I wasn't a fan of

ritual because I thought rituals didn't mean anything. I thought

intent and belief okay. So kinda like this.

So in Salem's Lot, when the vampire

comes at the, like the priest character And I'm talking

about the movie, not the book because I never read the book. But you know

that it's Mike this blue nasty vampire in Salem's Lot. Comes to the

priest character and the priest holds up his cross.

And he's like, you have no power over me or whatever. And the vampire is

like, it doesn't work if you don't believe. And then he just eats

him. Right? Or sucks his blood or does whatever vampires do which is bad.

And, I always that's how I felt

about ritual. In that rituals are just

something that people do when they don't believe. That

belief is what matters, and the ritual of like holding up the cross in

front of the vampire. Obviously I'm talking about a Stephen King thing from the

19 seventies, but I just didn't I thought that rituals were empty.

Until when doing the research and talking to different people,

when about magic or about your

belief and how you make changes in your life, or

about how you form habits. I would say that's another way. It's like how you

form habits is a big one too. And so how you're

forming habits is you go through the ritual. You do

it even when you're not a 100% convinced of

everything. You know, you don't need to floss all your teeth

every day to have great teeth. But if you floss at least you're doing it.

Eventually you'll be somebody with clean teeth or whatever.

And so I'm now a believer in ritual over even

belief because I think ritual creates the belief and I think

ceremony creates the belief where I used to think it was the other way around.

Mhmm. And so I would say 20 years ago, if you just said,

well, we had a ceremony. We dedicated and it's for protection

against the storms. I'd be Mike, You know, I'd be like, you

guys are ridiculous. What kind of why you wasting the kids' time with that?

You should be teaching them about science. They need to get jobs. And

now I'm like, I think that's a beautiful thing. I think the ceremony and I

think going through the entire, like the poll and the offering and

everyone focusing their intention on something like that is a powerful and beautiful

thing. And and then that poll throughout the year was a focus

of our intention and and, a place

where the spirits could congregate and be

honored. Right. I just I'm just saying everything that I thought about the world was

right, like that smart people were in charge or whatever, it's all wrong.

Yeah. It was all I was completely incorrect. Right.

So Okay. So So the Thunderbird Yes. Is

good, not bad. With the tradition, the tradition that you've

worked with. Right. And and so, that would

be in particular, the Oneida,

but not just the Oneida, the whole Haudenosaunee

grouping which includes the Mohawk and so forth. So, you

know, many of our listeners will know them as the

Iroquois. So Sure. Let's just say all of the Iroquois

believed in, you know, a thunderbird that was benevolent.

And I just saw it for a second because I was like, oh, the Iroquois

Confederacy. Yes. But originally I thought the Iroquois conspiracy. And I'm Mike,

Iroquois conspiracy might be a cool name for like an Indian punk band. Yes.

It would be very cool. So anyway the Iroquois, the,

Menominee, and the Ojibwe.

And probably probably, their 3 fires alliance

as well which, included the Potawatomi and the Ottawa.

So many tribes of this area and, you

know, extending all the way to New York because that was the,

originally where the Iroquois came from. So many

tribes of this area believe in the thunderbird as benevolent. But

I think think that's, similar,

among other tribes throughout the United States as well.

So the the, American Indians tribes, they feel as

benevolent, but I would say that the new stories we

found out about giant birds do not make them sound as

benevolent as we were led to believe.

So the news stories, it wasn't, the

the mystical thunderbird. The gigantic bird in the sky that would

take on his mortal enemy the water panther. Yeah. Like

he was he was good for humans. Right. But But the water

panther is not. Right. But the but the thing is, but the gigantic

birds that people saw in Texas,

And and Illinois in, the late seventies.

Were not quite Right. As as benevolent.

And I think we should go through a couple of these, newspaper

stories here and go over actually how

non benevolent, some of these giant birds were. Yeah.

There's actually, 2, attacks that I found in

1976 in,

Texas. One that seemed less

credible than the other, but, one

of the witnesses that claimed that he was attacked actually

had some pretty severe injuries that were

verified by a doctor. Alright. So can you give us a little background?

Mike, what was that particular attack? Okay. So, that one

happened, in January of 1976. What

city in Texas? In Eagle Pass, Texas. Eagle Eagle Pass,

Texas sounds pretty appropriate for what I'm talking about

here, buddy. Yeah. And, so this young man,

21 years old, his name was, Francisco,

Magalenas, I believe that name is. Okay. So you're we're butchering the last

name of Francisco. Yeah. So Francisco

claimed that he was in his backyard and

then suddenly this giant bird descended

upon him and he had, weird

gouges 8 to, 12 centimeters

long and from 1 half to 1 and

1 half centimeters deep. Okay. On the back portion of

each shoulder. Number okay. Okay. The back portion of each

shoulder. Yes. Alright. I like that already. Yes. So it's like it tried to pick

him up Right. In the classic kind of way. So that's a lot of fun.

But what I don't understand is why in Texas, they'd be using some

kind of European thing known as a centimeter.

Well, that's Isn't this the Texas paper? That's that's a good point,

but Alright. Remember tell you one thing. We're gonna go a 100 miles till we

come up with the measuring system. Well, remember in the

seventies, there was this big, this big push to

convert to the metric system. It didn't take. That's right. But our dad was

behind it. Yeah. He was he was all like, we should definitely convert to the

metric system. I agree. Everything's in tens. It just makes sense. Yes.

I agree. We should've we should've done that. I ain't gonna have any of their

little miles. So that we can, elaborate

easily with, people around the world who all use it. But guys, just

think if you could say instead of, 4 and a half

inches, you could say he Mike 9 centimeters. Okay.

So let's get back to the point. The point is that We're talking about big

birds. Yeah. Poor Francisco is Mike in

his yard and this huge, he

described it as a, 6 foot tall bat Mike creature with

a pig face and huge red eyes

jumps on him from above and gouges into his

back. Now this was verified by a doctor named,

doctor Arturo Bales. Okay.

I don't know if it's Bales or whatever. What about doctor

Arturo? Doctor Arturo, actually,

verified that, you know, these cuts were real.

And he he was, kind of,

confounded about, you know, how they could have been made in any other

way. What I think is interesting here is, like, I thought that when you first

originally said, like, oh, we found a couple of big bird attacks. I was Mike,

okay. And then it's just a guy that gets his butt kicked or whatever. Mhmm.

Or Mike a kid that gets butt Mike, a bully beats him up on the

way from school or maybe he writes a couple of checks that his butt can't

cash kinda thing. Mhmm. And gets beaten up.

And then he's gonna be like, oh, man. I don't wanna admit that I got

beaten up. So So I'm gonna make up a big

story with a with a pig face. I don't know. But how is he gonna

get the marks on his back? Yeah. So, I mean, that was interesting.

And, you know, the doctor felt that that the witness was credible as

well, that he he really seemed actually freaked out about what

happened. So, you know, he certainly believed the story. There

were others that that didn't, but but

the doctor who, you know, was who

this guy was sent to by police, seems to

think that there was some something to this report. Now

what people didn't believe him? Okay. So so the actual,

captain Donald Smith, of the police,

said that it's just a matter of time before

the the Big Bird story, from Megalena

is is just proven. And and he

he said, I believe if you, dig into some of

our of your Mexican customs, your

your voodoo and black magic, any of those beliefs

of some people believe Satan or demons come

out in the body of a bat with a bat face. So he

was saying that that, you know, what was seen was a

product of this guy's imagination. Well, if that's the case, how did he

get these verifiable wounds? It'd be like stigmata

otherwise. Like, he always he he gets so scared of some kind of

bird demon in his head that, like, that, sores and and

cuts develop on his back. But I think it's interesting though because Yeah. You

first of all, the doctor's name is Arturo. Yes. And the guys, you know, it's

Francisco and then here comes good old Daddle Smith.

Right. I think it's just a matter of time before this all gets

disproven. Because if you come in to these kind of Mexican

customs, black magic, voodoo, you know what I'm talking about.

Yes. It's all a bunch of crap.

Yeah. You could you could totally, you could hear them right in the middle of

the year. Right right in the story. But there have been

numerous reports that year in South Texas

of a large bird. It was called the big

bird and it was sighted Big bird's coming at you.

Watch out Snuffleupagus. By many He shouldn't have ran out. Yeah. It's

funny. It was 76. So I mean Obviously Snuffleup Big bird

Snuffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffeluffel

Then he'd show up and Snuffleupagus would be gone Mike that. So number 1,

Snuffleupagus is the worst imaginary friend ever. Yeah.

He's like a a farewell imaginary friend. Yeah. Because every time Big

Bird's like, oh, I want you to see my friend, you know. He's like, bye.

And and now Snuffleupagus is just part of Sesame

Street. So what is the lesson here? That if you believe in

something long enough it'll eventually like your imaginary friends are real? It will

manifest. Is Sesame Street trying to tell us something? Maybe.

Imagination of your friends are real. So maybe all that black magic,

voodoo, hoodoo Black magic, voodoo, hoodoo, all these Mexican

customs. Actually turned into something real. And,

there was another man in, Ravensville,

Texas just a week prior to Francisco's report

who also reported being attacked. But he described the

creature as having a monkey face or an ape face.

Okay. That now that's interesting because now we have this okay. Because when you think

of a bird, you think of a beak. Right? Yeah. You don't think of a

pig face. But, you know, if it was kind of a, you know, like a

more of a bat like creature. Right. A bat a bat has a

pig face because a bat's a mammal. So now we're not talking about a giant

bird. Yeah. We're talking about a giant bat. A giant bat. Yeah.

That's way scarier than a giant bird because a bird's Mike kinda stupid or

whatever. Like a giant bat is smart and And it

can echolocate your ass. Right. Right. A bird you can

hide from as long as you can get around their weird eyes or whatever because

they're on the sides of their head. Like the bat will just go boop

boop and each That's right. Well That's great. But that's interesting though too

because now we have the monkey face and now we have the pig face. Right.

So now it feels like we're going into a different territory then. Yeah.

But not only that.

Also this Francisco guy, apparently

had some, evidence in his yard.

So Donald Smith, said that when Magalenais

was released from the hospital, police planned to

interrogate him and hoped he would submit voluntarily to

a polygraph test. So what were the results,

I Wendy. But beyond that, he

said several items. This is, Donald Donald Smith saying

this. He said several items including a piece of fur or feather

was, found in the victim's yard and would be processed through a

crime laboratory. Now we're talking about physical evidence.

Right. I was gonna say there needs to be a book. Nick Redfern, you were

out there. You are not listening to this podcast right now. Where are you, Nick?

But Nick Redfern lives in Dallas. And Oh, this is perfect. I was gonna

say this What is he doing? He's worried about the men in black

probably right now. But, so this would be the perfect thing for Nick Redfern

because he could go to, Eagle Pass

and he could be Mike and he's an English guy and whatever English people talk,

we like Americans automatically do whatever they want. They're like, oh, he's an English guy.

We used to take orders from them so we should probably still do it. He

needs a pass because it's English. Right. He's like, could always could always see those

records, please. And we're like, oh, yes, sir. You must be sophisticated.

I smell the blood of an Englishman. So

what I think is interesting is that other people saw the bird. Big bird.

Yes. People talked to people reported to the police.

Yes. They're Mike, holy crap. There's a bird out here. There's physical evidence on

a man's body and there is feathers. Yeah. Or

fur. That's interesting. Feathers are fur. Because feathers if it's a bird.

Fur if it's a bat. Yeah. So something's going

on in Texas in 19 seventies. Yeah. That's not ZZ

Top. Yeah. And so the week before, this is,

the other report of, an attack. The headline

is man tells of swooping attack in yard.

So I just love these headlines. Man tells of swooping attack.

Like, that doesn't draw your eye unless you're a weirdo Mike we

are. We're like swooping attack. What's swooping attack? Yeah. Like most

people like Mike who who doesn't just pass that over? That's not an

AP headline. Anyway, this is the Eagle Pass news. Let's see that. Right. Right.

So this happened in, Raymondville. And this was a

week before the Eagle Pass thing. Yeah. And so this

was another person, reporting that he had

been attacked by this giant bird. And then earlier,

that that month, earlier in January,

other people were reporting lots of, you

know, big flying creatures in the lower

Rio Grande Valley including 2 police officers

came forward and said they saw something strange. And this isn't

just people saying that police officers are seeing something strange.

It's actually This is actually The cops, like, they saw something weird and they reported

it. And it's being reported in the actual newspaper.

So, so anyway, there's this guy, 28

years old, Armando Grimaldo. And

First of all, I love the rhyming in last name. Yeah. Like, great last name.

My last name is Huberty. So I don't want my I don't want my last

name to rhyme. Thank you. I didn't want that last

name at all ever. But Armando Grimaldo

is a totally sweet name. Yes. And anyway, that's the name Wendy go

to the bar after this podcast is done, I'll be like, hello,

girls. I am Armando Grimaldo. They're gonna

all swoon at your feet. They're gonna they're gonna give me a swooping attack. That's

right. So anyway, he claimed that this big

black bird with big eyes and a monkey like

face attacked him and tore his jacket and shirt.

And, the the man was taken to a local hospital,

for treatment and released after the hospital attendants could

not find any trace of physical injury.

So he claimed to be attacked,

but he didn't have physical evidence, like, a week later

when Francisco was attacked. And he had those weird wounds

and apparently some physical evidence in his yard. Right. So

So Armando might be a Johnny come lately. Well,

Armando was before. Okay. Yeah. He preceded

Francisco's attack. So so maybe, the big bird

just got better at attacking. You know,

maybe he just wasn't that efficient and, you know, ripped the

shirt, grabbed onto the shirt and then flew away.

Now, and interestingly, a year later in

19, 77,

we would have the Illinois, Lawndale,

Illinois attempted abduction of

Marlon Lowe by a giant bird like creature. And

this and this was, not just reported by

his mother and himself but, you know, many,

other neighbors who witnessed this giant bird picking up

Marlon, by his t shirt. And they talk and that's what they

talk about in tearing the skies. Right? Yes. Like the Marlin Loewen. So if you

guys But they don't talk about stuff that happened in in other

states preceding that attack. But if you wanna see

A reenactment. A reenact right. And it's pretty good. It's pretty fun. A reenact

I mean, not for Marlin or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Because how old is Marlin when

he gets picked up? I don't know. I think about 12

actually. He's he's older. He's Right. He's not like a baby or whatever.

Because I think about my 3 year old and like she's a toddler and she's

she may be 30 some pounds or something like that. And,

you think well, an ostrich could pick her up.

I guess. Ostriches don't fly though. No. But I mean, like an ostrich could

probably like an ostrich is a it is a big bird. Well, you know,

if you wanna talk about birds picking people

up, oh, man. There are some

really bad stories that really seem to happen.

There was one, from Wendy, when

a a giant condor was, reported

in, I believe it was Argentina. Buenos

Aires. Oh, it was yes. Buenos Aires. Right. So, this

little, 2 year old baby, his name Oh,

god. You're breaking my heart. I can't Yeah. I can't handle the baby stuff anymore.

Yeah. Sorry. His name is Lazaro

the Delgado. Lazaro Delgado.

Lazaro Delgado? Lazaro, l a

z z a r o. Lazaro. Lazaro. Okay.

Lazaro Delgado was a 2 year old boy

and this, great condor of the Andes

carried him away to a cave and ate

him. So Who who who on there? Yes. This is

bad. It's a bad story. That is a that's

a horrific story. Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, that's

something though that you're Mike, okay. It it's one of those classic

stories. First of all, it happened in the 19 Wendy, which we're at the height

of orientalism. Right? Yeah. Because we're at the

height of Egyptology. We're at the height of the name in movies, the Egyptian. The

name in movie theaters Mike the Yeah. Well, this is the the the

condor is is from the Andes. I know. But I was just saying it's

we're talking about places out of the country. And this is an age

of American journalism where when they were talking about things, they were

trying to shock you with what happened in foreign cultures. I

think about these stories like faces of death or the kind

of VHS movies that they had in the 19 eighties where

you'd be like, you'll never believe that they eat dogs in Asia but

we're gonna show you on tape. And Right. You're like, oh my god.

You know, in in phases of death had this whole thing where they beat the

monkey to death with a with a a hammer Wow. And they eat its brains

and stuff just like in in Indiana Jones and the temple of doom.

What do they, you know, he goes to eat in India and

what's the scene that we're all grossed out by when here comes dessert. And the

guy goes, my favorite, chilled Mike braids. Mike

it's Right. So you have this you have this idea of

a foreign culture as something that's terrifying. The Andes

becomes a place where giant condors take

toddlers to their death. Well, and maybe it is a trumped up

story like that. I, you know, I can't say. I'm just saying when Donald

Smith comes out and he's like and Donald Smith's like, well we did find a

feather. Yeah. But that Donald Smith's in the other

story. I know but that's what I mean. That's Mike it is a different

feeling. I feel like a lot of the stuff from the and this happens guys

Wendy we're doing research for haunted history tours and research for the podcast.

When you look back at newspapers from certain eras Yeah.

It's That's always the most reliable. No. Of course, not always the most reliable. Mike,

the standard of like, people talk about fake news today Mike it's something

that was invented in the 2,000 and tens. Like fake

news, yellow journalism and sensationalism,

like, they used to have tabloid style stories in the regular

newspaper because it would sell more newspapers. And

so that's all I mean. Now I'm not saying that Buenos Aires

story isn't Trump, you know, isn't the real thing.

But it's such a horrific kind of tale. Yeah. That

it feels like the kind of thing you would read as, well, you better watch

out for your 2 year old or the condor's gonna eat him. Yeah. And

it's sad because, he was in, the backyard with

his little brother. His little 5 year old brother, Martin.

And so they're they're in the backyard together and

then the parents come back out to retrieve them. And then,

you know, little Martin is Mike babbling about this giant

bird. Oh, gosh. And they're like, you know, where's,

Lazaro or Lazaro? Martin

and and Martin and Lazaro. Yeah. Martin and Lazaro.

I'm sorry. I'm very tired. But, you know, where is he? And,

you know, the little kid's babbling that a big bird took

him. And then, relatives actually

go to the nearby hills and find

the condor's cave and are able to retrieve

the 2 year old's body. Oh, god. I I can't even I can't

handle it. It's too sad. Yeah. It's really

horrible. But, that I mean,

let's have a happier story. Okay. And let's talk

about the Piazza bird of the Piazza.

Oh my god. I always say it wrong. You always say it wrong. How have

I been saying it wrong forever? It's the pizza bird. It's the p

the Piazza bird. I really am embarrassed about that. Well, don't be because

that whole thing is made up. That whole name and everything like that. So

What do you mean the piezo is made up? Well, okay. So

oh, man. Okay. So let's start with

where the Payasat actually came from. So Jacques

Marquette comes Wait. Who's Jacques Marquette?

Father Marquette was an explorer, that,

came, to the United States,

father Jacques Marquette. I'm assuming he's French. Right?

Louis Joliet came from Oh, man. He came with a guy named Louis

Joliet. Yes. Came for the for the French crown

to survey the lands. Find escargot in

great places. America. And, they came through

the Midwest. And in 16/73,

they came through this area, Alton, which is now Alton, Illinois.

And Alton, Illinois, Mike, close to Saint Louis on the Mississippi

River. Yes. It is, you know, the the middle of the

country. So when you think about the United States, like, you think about

if you threw a dart and hit the middle, be somewhere around here.

So they are they are traversing the river

in canoes and as they go by one of the

bluffs they see, this this

depiction. It's rock art. It's a painting so

that's why it's a a pictograph rather than a petroglyph. A

petroglyph is carved and a pictograph is,

painted. So they see this, pictograph

in very large form. It's a giant painting,

as they're going by this bluff and it's way up there and it

actually has 2 creatures which,

Marquette described in his journal, as,

you know, being very fierce looking, look like tigers.

They have horns on their head like those of a deer. They're,

covered with scales. They have a fish's tail.

But you know what's interesting that they don't have

wings. Oh. Oh my god. So they don't They don't have wings. They

don't have wings. So the original Piazza bird was not a

bird at all. And then, the,

actual sketch that Marquette did,

in his journal, all of the creatures,

that were depicted was lost for a long time

until in 1992, a French researcher, you know,

rediscovered, the image

of, the the what became known as the Pia

Saw around the area of

Alton, Illinois on a map made by Joliet.

And so the idea is, okay, we don't have the original

sketch, but, what was depicted on Joliet's

map, was from,

from Marquette's original drawing. Was based on that. Sure. Yes.

Okay. So this idea that these 2 French explorers are coming

through the Mississippi. Oh. We go down the Mississippi.

Right. And they're going down in canoes which is pretty

brave. It's very perilous. Yeah. Right. They're pretty tough.

They come down. They see a painting and today, if you look

at the painting, it looks like I mean

almost the painting today almost looks like one of those Assyrian bulls with

wings. Wendy think about how the Mike the Piaasaw bird looks when you

well, pictures and we've put these pictures on our podcast before because the

Piaasaw could be because it can all in a bunch has been a

recurring theme. But this is the first time where we're saying, hey man, it

ain't no bird. Yeah. It's not a bird. I mean, if it was a bird

then Marquette in his very detailed description would

refer to it as having wings and also,

its positioning, be being

able to be seen by people traversing the river,

right before a big

a big area of whitewater, is

telling, because, it's actually was meant to be a

warning, to travelers that a bad

part of the river is coming up. A dangerous confluence

of the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers is coming up in

just a few miles. So watch out because,

these creatures will drown you if you don't. Okay. So what

what creatures are we talking about that might drown you? Yes. So it's not a

bird. No. So it's not the thunderbird. It's not the thunderbird. Was the

thunderbird in the legends of the people of this area? Yes.

But and there are other places nearby that actually

have, thunderbird petroglyphs. But

the the pictograph of the original

Piaasaw, which is not its name, see it gets so

complicated, you know, but Who named it? Okay. Who

named it Piaasaw? Okay. So, later

on, John Russell was just this

Anglo He doesn't sound like a French or Indian. No. It's professor,

John Russell declared in 18/36 to have uncovered

the local native legend of the fearsome

Piazza. The word Piazza, he claimed, means the

bird that devour devours men. And he had this whole story,

about, the Mike saw

and, it it, you know,

rampaging, and eating Indians

and this, yes. He said he got that from the local Indians.

Yes. And this is the first time people talked about the Mike

saw in lore. Right. Was

from John John Russell's,

story. And everybody just took his word for it.

Okay. So could it have been Mike the local Indians taking the piss or whatever?

I think it's just John Russell making up a story. Sure.

To get attention. Yes. And and so he called it

the the Mike saw, but there's no evidence to support

what he would what he said. And, there is

no word,

for a giant giant bird.

Linguistically, experts in the local,

Illini, Miami language, say that

the word piasau actually has nothing to do with thunderbirds

or underwater panthers. Payasaw

actually, comes from another word,

Payasaw, which refers to

supernatural dwarves. So the actual word

was taken by, John Russell. He

misunderstood what it meant and attributed

it to, you know, some kind of fearsome bird, but it

actually, comes from another part of the

legend. The legend associated with the original pictograph

is even weirder than you would Mike imagine,

and it involves 2 supernatural dwarves.

And that's where the word piasat came into all of this.

Wait. What do the what do the dwarves do? Okay. So alright.

Now the Piaasaw is actually, as you were

saying, the water panther. Remember we were talking about how

the water panther battles the thunderbird? Yes. Okay.

So that, ideology existed in

this area as well. And so, you know,

the thunderbird would come come through and, you know, take

care of, the Misipiju which is

was, the Ojibwe name, for the water

panther so that the water panther would stop drowning people.

So the thunderbird would actually come to people's rescue.

Okay. So, but the Thunderbird isn't in,

the original story to go with the with this original

story that, went with the the epictographs.

So there's a story from the Illini about a

trickster who was captured by the underwater panther

and he's locked up with a bunch of other victims,

under the water and so the monster has

this larder filled with all these people that he's

devouring at his leisure and then after As you do.

Yes. And after one of the hapless, captives

is devoured, the the beast falls

asleep. So this this trickster Like you almost fell asleep

after eating the cheesecake Yes. I'm I'm still suffering the effects as you

probably can tell of too much cheesecake. So

anyway, after, the

beast falls asleep, the water panther falls asleep,

things are looking pretty bleak for the captives. But,

the trickster manages, to stuff the

sleeping water panther with gunpowder and

eventually blow it up. After which Are they still underwater at this time?

Yeah. They're still because they're still on stuff that up underwater. I know. Okay. But

Suspend your disbelief, people. So suspend your disbelief. But the important

thing here is that after the creature is gone, the

trickster get this gets this monster, this

monster's cool underwater lair for his very own.

So he's Mike digging it that using it as a swinging bachelor

pad. Sure. That is until 2 spooky supernatural

dwarves come out of nowhere and raid his new digs

and unceremoniously kick him out. Oh, man. So that's

where the dwarves come in. And all around this area

in, the Saint Louis area and in, Illinois,

you will you will find little footprints that

were carved into rocks around this area.

And those those tiny footprints are supposed to represent

these dwarves. The Pyasaw. Yes. So the

Pyasaw are actually the dwarves. And

the, the pictograph, was

the water panther and it was a warning to

travelers who are traveling on the river that there's rough

water coming up and if you're not careful,

the the Pia saw is gonna pull pull you underneath to his,

watery, layer and eat you. Well and that's

and we've talked about the water panther before because the water panther is something that

people have discussed about, the drownings

that happened in La Crosse, Wisconsin Yes. Along the Mississippi River. Right.

La Crosse and Minneapolis. Mysterious. Very mysterious drownings. And there's,

you know, and interestingly enough in in, there's a Fox River that

goes from, North of the Illinois border from

by where we grew up. The Fox River actually passed by the neighborhood

that Allison and I grew up in, and it went all the way down into

Illinois. And when you look at the drownings that have happened in the

Fox River over the same period as the drownings that happened in the Mississippi River

in La Crosse, more famously known as the the smiley face murders.

You Mike have heard that on coast to coast. Is that there's just about as

many people that drown in the Fox River as drown in the Mississippi,

But because the,

news agencies are different and because some of it happens in

Wisconsin and some of it happens in Illinois, nobody connects

it. Because if a story happens in Northern Illinois, we

don't hear about it in Southern Wisconsin. And in Southeastern Wisconsin, if they're not in

the Milwaukee TV market, they're not gonna hear about that in

Northern Illinois because they're in the Chicago TV market. So it's an interesting

so it's the water panther is

he's out there, man. Yeah. And I mean,

what's what's interesting is seeing is seeing the

actual drawing, that came from that Joliet,

map. It's called, the Franklin map,

and it was drawn, by Jean Baptiste Franklin but

credited and signed by

Marquette's companion Joliet. And,

the creature depicted on the map, near

the the site of present day Alton,

has horns and antlers and that long

fishing a fish's tail is described but of course no

wings. But the other interesting thing that it has is it

has jaguar spots on it. And

I used to think I mean, the whole concept that, like, when you hear the

words underwater panther, I thought,

boy, that that sounds dumb. I mean, what kind of Right.

My cats hate water. Right. Cats hate water.

But what I didn't realize is that the jaguar,

may have made its Wendy,

deeper into North America during that time period. It's a

typical range today, Wendy,

to Arizona.

But it's not beyond the pale to think that that,

it might have, you know, before, the march of

civilization, it might have made its way

to other areas of North America and

been witnessed by native people as this mysterious

creature, that's a feline type

creature hunting a panther, hunting in the water, which would

would have been a strange thing. And, so

perhaps that's where, the whole legend of of

Mike miss a pejou derived originally was

from, was from The jaguar making up

America. Right. And because I I had not known that

this original drawing, of

Marquette and then later, you know, copied by

an artist commissioned by Joliet would would show

actual jaguar spots. I mean, that kinda blew my mind

and Mike it made the water panther make

sense to me finally. And I was like, oh, it's a jaguar. There you go.

It was right in front of your face the whole time. Right. What cat

regularly hunts in water? It's the jaguar. And there you go. So Mike

there is I mean, think about it. If if Mike there was,

an like enough climate. It was warm enough. There weren't enough people or

cities or something like that. Absolutely. An animal that can be as far

away as Arizona could come up another a few 100 Mike,

but not a few hundred. Maybe. Oh, yeah. You know, 500, 600 miles and

get to Illinois. But also, the people were

very moving around and nomadic too. So we think about Yeah. We think about the

native people. You don't just like move Like we live in Alton, Illinois. A lot

of the people we talk to today are from the area and they've been living

here their whole lives. Their family's here. And if you're a,

if you're a native American tribe

in, you know, 2000 years ago or 3000 years ago,

chances of you moving from place to place with the weather and

crops and Right. Where the game are. Yeah.

So you could they could've been in Arizona. They could've seen the jaguar and they

could move up here and then still be worried that there's gonna be jaguars up

here. So don't get in the water kids. Right. Or you know what's gonna

happen. The condor is gonna come and eat your 2 year old.

Well, okay. Not sure about the condor part. But

yeah. I mean, it's it's, entirely possible. Well, so let's

say that the jaguar doesn't extend its range,

but the people do or the people,

also talk to other, other

inhabitants of other areas of North America and hear

about this strange creature, this feline creature that

hunts in the water. And so maybe that's

how, the legend was derived was from

other contact with other tribes where,

the jaguar range, was more common.

Well, and then if you take a couple of things, you take the eagle,

you know, a majestic creature. Obviously, the bald eagle. They made it

the country's bird or whatever, and Uncle Sam and all that kind of business.

And then, you know, you mythicize it. You put a myth behind it

of the thunderbird and these gigantic birds and they're

powerful creatures and you Yeah. You you make it part of

your culture's myths and then you take something that's fearsome

on the other end. Like you're having a swim. Like when you don't have a

bathtub, you gotta swim in a river to try to bathe off, you know.

Yep. Or go to the bathroom or all those other kind of things. Well, let's

say you're pinching a loaf in the river and the jaguar comes

up. Run for your life. That's the most terrifying Mike,

Wendy you're at your most, vulnerable,

here comes the water panther to drown you. Absolutely. And

so, of course, that that can become a myth in itself. Yes.

Yes. So, you know, there there's real things

behind, these mythical ideas.

And, you know, it doesn't have to be, you know, a

mysterious monster but maybe it could be. You know, I'm not saying that there are

no mysterious monsters because, on the

theme of talking about large creatures in the

air, we have someone in our own family who,

told us a story Well, that's right. Decades ago now.

And Mike godfather? Yes. So And he's not like a

wacko. Yeah. He's he's a vet. He's a vet. Yep.

He's a responsible person. Right. He's got 4 kids. He's a good dad.

Mike, all these kinda things. And he doesn't have all these wild stories. He

has this one weird story. And this is Mike maybe the late

nineties. And we're having, Christmas at

our aunt's house and this is in the Bayview area, Milwaukee. It's it's something

we've done since we were kids and we're all in the basement and everybody's together

at Christmas and Christmas Eve. Unwrapping gifts. That's what we did. Unwrapping.

Santa comes. We all unwrap our gifts. But the thing is Mike godfather Kevin

then delivers the best gifts we ever got. Yes. Because, see,

what Mike gave me was this big book of UFO

sightings. And so, my,

cousin and his godfather, noticed this

book and said, oh Mike gosh. I didn't know

you were into UFOs. And I'm like, yeah. We're total weirdos. That's

what I was gonna say. Like, we're the part of the family. Everybody's like, are

they coming? So how did you not know that

we're total weirdos? So so anyway, he's like, oh,

well, I have to tell you my story. And we're like, well, did you

see a UFO? And he's like, no. I saw a

dragon. Straight up. Yeah. And

so that was Mike one of the best,

stories he could ever tell us. And if you wanna hear it in his own

words Yeah. I'll put the YouTube video in and the show notes on othersidepodcast.com/284.

And you can hear, you can hear it in his own words. But

basically he it was during the birth of his son. Yeah.

So September Wendy, 1988. He's

at, Elmbrook, Memorial Hospital which

is in Brookfield, Wisconsin. And,

this, this,

hospital's on on top of a bluff and it has,

some some, 10 foot bay

windows on the upper floor. And the Brook the Brookfield area and the

Waukesha County, they have there's a ton of hills around there. In fact,

there's a there's a specific hill in Waukesha nearby, called

Tower Hill, where very famously used to have ghost

hunts in 191901. Really? They'd see

weird lights in the tower on Tower Hill. Weird blue lights. And

so it was a popular thing, for young people

to go ghost hunting at Tower Hill, not too far

away from where this happened. Wow. Like like 5 miles from where this happened. I

did not know that. It was one of the it was also on one of

the hills in Waukesha County. Yeah. So,

this normal hospital, Brookfield's,

Elmbrook Memorial Hospital. So he's up there in the waiting

room awaiting the birth of his first child and he's

just, you know, staring out the window and, you

know, nervously waiting for the arrival of his

son, when he sees a black

form dipping in and out of the the clouds. You know, this

catches his attention and he thought, well, if

this is an airplane, it's in trouble because it's flying

dangerously low. And so he

stops you know what he's doing, he's just sitting there drinking coffee

and, watches this this object

and then as he watches it,

emerge from the clouds, he suddenly realizes that

it's not an airplane. It it looks very much like

a a large bird. And he actually drew me a a sketch

and, the sketch, the the face of

it looks very much like a pterodactyl. It's basically just Game of

Thrones. And it was it wasn't, it wasn't like,

it didn't have feathers. It was more had leathery wings Mike,

you know, we were talking about maybe a bat like creature. But, the

face that he drew was very much very pterodactyl like or pterosome.

But he also said it was the size of like a Piper Cub airplane. Yes.

So it wasn't just a large bird, it was a bird.

Yeah. So, that's a small plane but it's it's

huge when you're thinking of bird sizes. And and what's really

interesting to me is, I know we talked about this on the podcast

before because, when we had said, stress, breathe, love

on talking about his documentary, Terror in the Skies,

we mentioned, you know, several of the stories from this

1948 flap throughout Illinois where these huge birds

were sighted and one of the witnesses'

descriptions startled me because the

the witness description said it was the size of a piper called

plane. Oh. Yes. It was Mike, wow. That's

just that's crazy how that matched up. And we're talking about

something that's, so how much Southeastern

Wisconsin where this happened? Yes. Southeastern Wisconsin, it's, you know,

a half an hour away from the border from Illinois. So I I was gonna

say a an Illinois pterodactyl could have

slipped over, and, scared our cousin.

Yeah. Absolutely. But I mean, what do you do with that when

somebody tells you a story like that? And You laugh and you

say you don't believe them. But we didn't. No. Of course. Because it's an awesome

story and we believe him. And and we did believe him because he did

seem unnerved by it. Yeah. He's like I saw a terror like He he

seemed like it was one of those quizzical things that happens to you

and and you just don't know what to do with it. And he he was

And he was not alone. Yeah. He was sharing it with us on

Christmas just because he he saw that we'd be open for it. Beautiful

book. Yeah. And so if you guys have a crazy story, you can

share it with us too. Yeah. We would love that. We would love it. We

live for your stories. Absolutely. Find us at, at otherside

talk on Twitter or obviously, othersidepodcast.com.

But if you wanna hear that story in his own words, we'll have that on

this and as as well as the links to some of these newspaper articles.

Yes. So you can see how they wrote about themselves. When when

big bird attacks. So thanks for joining

us. Allison, let's sign off from Alton, Illinois.

Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us.

Winston Churchill famously said, he who controls the skies controls

the war. And as earthbound creatures, there's something extra

terrifying about being attacked from the sky. Airborne predators

pick their targets from far away and swoop in to snatch their prey.

The stories of these giant bird attacks are certainly arbitrary and

horrifying. It makes us realize just how precarious and precious our

life is when we live on a knife edge of randomness, Whether it's

cancer, tsunamis, car accidents, or

gigantic condor kidnappings, we all live under a

constant threat. And that threat is the title of this week's sunspot

song, death from above.

Scratch my side my shoulders, clawed holes

Thank you for listening to today's episode. You can find us

online at othersidepodcast.com. Until next

Mike. See you on the other side. And an

extra thanks to our Patreon community. Thank

you for showing us that you're really into what we do and for helping us

to continue creating content for the podcast,

writing new songs, recording them, and making videos, and researching all

the different paranormal topics that we love to cover. And

the bonus shout goes to doctor Ned, who is a

member of our community at the executive producer level. Ned, thank

you so much for your support, and we love giving you this extra shout out

because we really truly do appreciate you. Now February is coming

to an end soon, and that means it's almost time for our monthly hangout.

So members, please make sure you check the Facebook group and

also check your Patreon emails from us because we'll be sending out the

details for when and where well, it's pretty much the from

the comfort of your own home, but definitely we'll send you the details of

when and how to connect with us for that hangout. We're looking forward to

it. Thank you so much for listening to the very very end and I

hope that you have an awesome week.

You know, I'd be like, you guys are ridiculous.