In this weeks episode of Podjunction Co-Hosts Matt and Sadaf explore the transformative power of podcasting for business growth with expert John Roman. Discover why podcasting is a game-changer for B2B and B2C companies, and learn how to strategically leverage this medium to build relationships, create engaging content, and become a thought leader in your industry.

Key Takeaways: 

1. Podcasting as a Strategic Marketing Tool: John Roman emphasises that podcasting is an invaluable tool for both B2B and B2C companies. For B2B, it serves as a no-brainer for networking and establishing thought leadership. For B2C, a more strategic approach is required, but it can effectively build brand maturity and consumer trust.
2. The Evolution of Buying Behaviour: The episode highlights how buying behaviour has shifted over the years. Consumers and businesses alike are now more reliant on community opinions and content for decision-making. Podcasts offer a platform to provide valuable insights and build relationships, aligning with this new, research-based buying process.
3. Community and Content are Key: Successful podcasting involves more than just broadcasting information; it’s about creating a community and providing consistent, valuable content. Engaging with your audience through podcasts helps in nurturing relationships, which can lead to business growth and long-term customer loyalty.

John Roman | How Your Podcast can Become an Unbeatable Marketing Strategy

Sadaf Beynon: Welcome to Podjunction Podcast, a show for podcasters using their podcast to grow their business. I'm Sadaf Beynon and beside me is the Matt Edmundson.

Matt Edmundson: The Matt Edmundson. Wow. It's, it's, it's, it's really fascinating actually, because we live in Liverpool.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, we do. We do, we do, we

Matt Edmundson: do live in Liverpool.

And in Liverpool, uh, we like to, I say we.

Sadaf Beynon: No, we. It's not, no. Matt likes to.

Matt Edmundson: I say we. Um, uh, people of Liverpool like to put the word the before pretty much everything. So there's a supermarket in the UK called Asda, in Liverpool it's called The Asda, um, And it's just, it's just one of the things that we like to do.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: But it wasn't called Batman. It was called The Batman, which

just

Matt Edmundson: pleased everybody in Liverpool.

That was good. And then because they filmed in a lot of it in Liverpool as well. I think it was all wonderfully. Anyway, I digress. Yes. So anyway, Edmundson is sat next.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: All right, come on, let's do it. All right. What we're doing today.

Sadaf Beynon: Not the Scouse accent.

All right. So today we've got the fourth and final segment with John Roman. And, um, if you've listened to any of the full length episodes, you'll know that I like to ask our guests. To let us know within 60 seconds why they think podcasting is a great tool for business growth. So I asked John the same question and he took a bit longer than 60 seconds, but it was all really good, valuable.

Matt Edmundson: So that's what we've got coming up. That's what we've got. Can I ask a question? Sure. Has anyone ever answered that question in 60 seconds or less?

Really?

Sadaf Beynon: Mm hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Okay. Are they new podcasters if they answer it in 60 seconds or less? No. I kind of feel like if you ask a seasoned podcaster, you know, for an answer to that question, they're just going to Go off on one because they're going to say something which will spark an idea which will spark another idea and before you know it, four hours have passed.

Sadaf Beynon: Well, you know Jared Kraus?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: He's coming up and he did it in a couple of words actually.

Matt Edmundson: Jared, what a legend.

Sadaf Beynon: And then he went on to say more, but yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, okay, well fair play, fair play. Well done for doing it in under 60 seconds, but John, I'm not surprised it took over 60 seconds. That's all. There's no hint of surprise on my face.

That's why I wouldn't ask you. Be like Matt, in 10 words or less. Tell me.

Matt Edmundson: Well, well, it's unknown I suppose. I don't know, I don't know. Just kidding?

Just kidding.

Matt Edmundson: Just kidding. This is Sadaf's catchphrase, isn't it? You mention, you say something, and then just follow up with just kidding, like Matt, you were really rubbish.

Sadaf Beynon: Just kidding.

Oh dear.

Matt Edmundson: Brilliant. So, we've got John Roman. All right, well, let's play the clip, then Sadaf and I will be back after this to chat about John's more than 60 second conversation. So here we go. Let's do it.

Sadaf Beynon: Can you tell us why you think podcasting is a great marketing tool to grow one's business?

There's benefit, but I think you have to, the business has to have some maturity to it, um, and you have to be very strategic. You know, as I said earlier, there's, there's multiple ships in, in, in that, in that port. On the B2B side, it's It's, it's really, it's a no brainer, right? You're, you're going to have, I'm going to struggle to keep this in 60 seconds, but the reality is the, just like consumer behavior has, has, has buying behavior has changed over time.

The right solution, whether it's an email provider or an agency like Mm-Hmm. , you're, you're really look listening, um, for, for the right answer. And that's changed so much. Right? Before it was very, you got the email and that's how you decided to meet with someone. So because of that. Um, you, there's an opportunity where, where B2B leaders can, can be in the space as thought leaders, providing value, talking about the topics that everyone wants to talk about and, and know about anyway.

Jimmy's interacting with my posts. So, you know, that is, that's the new way of selling, right? It's all about, um, the non overly aggressive traditional sales process and more just relationship building. And that's done through content, whether it's traditional posting or it's, or it's video and podcast. And I think, um, you know, the, the, the traditional model.

That a lot of B2B companies do where it's, it's host and guest. It's great for networking, right there. You're, you're, you're going to build your network. Um, And eventually, just, you know, organically, people you talk to and guests and then friends of guests are going to have a need and you're the first person they think to, they think to go to, right?

Sadaf Beynon: Absolutely. That was way

John Roman: longer than a minute. I apologize.

Sadaf Beynon: That's totally okay. That was a lot of good stuff that you said there. So it really doesn't matter at all, but you're right.

It is, it is very much, um, a softer sell and, um, you're warming up leads. without even realizing it. And the leads are getting warmed up without even realizing it. Right. In a sense, isn't it?

John Roman: Yeah, it's, uh, it's just a, but it's, it's people want community, right? And that, that checks the community box.

Sadaf Beynon: If that got you curious and you want to catch the full episode, be sure to subscribe to the show. We've got plenty more great conversations coming up.

It's much more of a medium to long term approach, um, and so some of the other stuff you may have to do short term, but medium to long term podcasting seems to be. A great tool for this new way of selling, uh, more so than any other tool I've come across, I

think. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And so I like that phrase, podcasting, the new way of selling.

If you haven't done so already. Um, and we talked about that last week, but the ability to put content out there so that when people are searching and looking, they come across that content. Yeah. What do HubSpot call this? They call it, um, inbound marketing, don't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is inbound marketing whereby, um, you understand that there are, there are different, people are at different phases of the buyer's cycle from problem aware to solution aware to non problem aware to not solution.

Sadaf Beynon: his email.

Yeah, he said that, um, in the context of thought leadership, didn't he? Like, so they're providing value and talking about the stuff that people are already wanting to know about.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, which makes a lot of sense. Right. So, um, we need to, like in podcasting, we talk about how do you, I mean, we're so niche.

If you think about podjunction, this is not a podcast about how to do a podcast, because there's plenty of podcasts about podcasting, about which microphone you should use, about which cameras and all the tech gear and stuff that, well, actually I care about, but I don't care about doing a podcast about, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Well, that's a bit more interesting, isn't it? And it's, it's a bit more niche. It's a bit more, um, around an actual need. So yes, if you want to know how to, you know, which camera to use, just, you know. There'll be podcasts out there, I'll go look at Think Media, you know, yeah YouTube is great, um, but it was much less competitive in this space, and actually this is much more what I want to talk about, the cameras and stuff is nice, I've got a nice camera, but once I've got the camera I don't need to go think about it again for another two years, right, um, but the techniques and strategies about this new way of selling I think are a constant evolution, and that's why it's nice sort of focusing on that content.

Sadaf Beynon: I thought it was great. Yeah. Just cleared the throat. Yeah, sorry. Um, yeah. So he said, uh, for, uh, using podcasts for B2B, no brainer, direct business growth.

Yeah. Um, B2C though, more strategic. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah, the approach needs to be far more strategic, which is interesting. I mean, it makes sense. It makes sense, doesn't it? Um, yeah, I like that.

Matt Edmundson: Why?

Sadaf Beynon: Why? To which one?

Matt Edmundson: Why do you like, you say you like that? Why? Expand a little bit more.

Sadaf Beynon: Well, I like it because it makes sense.

Matt Edmundson: he used the word community a lot.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. I use community in this one, didn't he? Yeah. So again, um, using your podcast to create content, create a community and

Matt Edmundson: I love that, whenever you can use the word bish, bash, bosh, you do it, right, um, or not the word, the phrase, uh, the three words. So this new way of selling, uh, John talks about is based on relationship, based on community, um, based on the idea that, um, a lot of people are in the research phase, thinking again about the buyer's journey, where people are at.

I think it's like. Out of a hundred people, 3 percent might be ready to buy. Yeah. And that's where we direct all our marketing, all our attention. It's like, let's go find those three people that are ready to buy. That's the most competitive space. 97 percent of the people aren't ready to buy, but they're going to be ready to buy at some point.

And I think where podcasting works and as John was talking, I kind of clicked in my head where podcasting works is it helps people in that phase and in that sort of phase of the buyer's journey where they're researching, they're wanting to know more. But the reason podcasting works is because it mixes that research with entertainment.

But actually, when you watch something on YouTube, or when you That facts and information is then merged with entertainment. Yeah. Right? So I prefer to watch a video than read a blog post. Yeah. So if I was going to look for a new camera, I'd go on to YouTube because I would want to see the video rather than read a blog post.

It's quicker to read the blog post, but I, I prefer the video. I can, there's a lot more information it gives me as they're holding it in their hands and all that sort of subconscious information. But if I'm honest with you, it's an entertainment thing. And it keeps me entertained much more. Yeah. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. And I think podcasting is a great way to bring an entertainment around that thought leadership that hopefully keeps people coming back.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: I

Um, yeah. But now, as you say, the, the podcast is, uses a lot more of your senses, doesn't it? And so you're able to engage with it more than you would with a, with a blog post. Maybe people do prefer to read, uh, there's always that, but I don't know, are blog posts as effective as they were?

Matt Edmundson: I think, I think, yes, I just think there's a lot of them and it's fiercely competitive for others.

The podcasting in YouTube space is maybe not as competitive. Yeah. A lot more involved. Yeah. But I think here's the other thing you can, you need to think about. It's like if we produce this as a video, podcast, that's how we do Podjunction. how we do all our podcasts. Um, we don't have one audio only podcast, although I'm thinking of starting an audio only podcast.

just kidding, some good ideas,

Matt Edmundson: well, I feel there's some issues there we might need to resolve, I think we might need to have a conversation about a few things, so yeah, just shout the word ideas.

Awesome. So what were we talking about before?

Sadaf Beynon: In September, you come back with great ideas.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I can't remember what my ideas were. Audio. Oh, I see. Yeah. So here's the thing, right? Here's the process. I can take an audio podcast and I can separate out, sorry, I can take a video podcast. Yeah. So the way it works with Podjunction, we record this as a video.

From the transcript, I can then create a blog post around that content, right? So now I've got the video, I've got the podcast, and I've got the blog post. Yeah. From that transcript and from the video, I can take clips, to, for, you know, short form video content or quotes or whatever for social media. So from my one piece of media, from this one single video recording, we output everything else.

I much prefer just sitting down and chatting in front of a video with people and recalling it. It's rather than just sitting down and going, right, here's five steps to do your podcast. Well, um, step number one, I quickly run out of ideas, whereas With this conversation, what episode are we on now? Episode what, 34?

We're on 34. And we're just still scratching the surface. Yeah. And we're still going strong and so, um, but then again we, we've mixed the entertainment aspect into it, which is probably why I find it a bit more fun. Ideas! Because you never, that would have never happened in a blog post.

Sadaf Beynon: Sadaf

Matt Edmundson: types in big caps letters.

Ideas, brackets, some are good, not all of them. Close brackets.

So I

Matt Edmundson: guess, I'm hoping that the content is entertaining for people that consume it.

Yeah. But it's entertaining for me to create it.

Mm hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Does that make sense? Yep. Sure does. Especially when you're off on one. But you're always off on one, to be fair. So it's always going to be entertaining.

Sadaf Beynon: Oh dear. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So yeah, that's my, my two pennies. Um, anything else you want to throw in on this?

Sadaf Beynon: See my notes a bit closer.

Matt Edmundson: the smallest handr in the world. I know. Um, can you actually read that? Yeah. Or is it getting more and more of a struggle? Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: getting old, . Um, no, I think we've covered it. Building relationships through content, that was the community side of things, wasn't it? Yeah.

So I mentioned, I think in the last episode about Shaper, the Good Working Tool. And actually one of the things that they've done really well is built community through their content. Um, so when they do a live stream, they'll do giveaways. They get people commenting and asking questions. They answer those questions.

Um, that ability to create that engagement with the community through live streams or, and I've seen people like, um, Amy Porterfield and people like that do this quite well, where you can send in your questions or, who's the other guy, um, John Lee Dumas, and you can, you can, you know, do like a call, like, I don't know how they do it, maybe with a Google number, you know, and you, you call and you leave a voicemail and they'll bring that into the, and so you're building community and you're bringing community content in there, which I think is super, super helpful.

Um, but we have this thing called question for Matt. You're going to give me a question. Uh, I say this to the guest, the guest is going to give me a question, but I don't answer on the podcast. I then take that snippet of that question and I record a video in vertical format answering that. Mm-Hmm. , right?

Yeah. So, um, Joe Davis, the first, the only one that we've done, Joe Davis a few weeks ago, asked me who was gonna win the Euros Mm-Hmm. right now. This was at the start of the Euros. I had no idea, but I needed to record the answer before the start of the Euros. Yeah. And so, um, we just took that snippet, who's going to win the Euros, and then I gave my answer.

With your question, obviously, your question's got to be quick because short form video. We've only got a few minutes and I like to talk, as you know, so keep your question. So that'll be the next evolution of that and it's engaging community and building that community with content. Yes. Went off on one there.

Sorry, I'll do it again. Another good idea.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, so we actually did that one on for Joe because it was a bit time critical.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. So the others are coming if you're looking out for them.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, the others are coming. Yeah. Yeah. The question is interesting when you say to the guests, ask me a question. And then it's like a cold sweat comes onto their face.

And so maybe get them to write it down so they, you know, write down your question now so when it comes to it, you know what's going on. Um, but everyone loves it and everyone's, some people, you know, they've asked really interesting questions, normally around eCommerce because we've only done this on the eCommerce Podcast.

So. Although it'd be interesting to see what people come up with on push actually, uh, just thinking that through. Um, but yes, that's a top tip.

Sadaf Beynon: So about community, I, I actually think it's really hard to build one. I think it, I think it takes a lot of, um, effort and, um, you have to be really, what's the word I'm looking for?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, being consistent in that arena. Yeah. Because you're right. I mean, we've tried to build communities of Facebook groups, Instagram, we've tried all kinds of things, tried and failed in many ways. Um, and it's not actually that straightforward. And people that come onto YouTube and say, Oh, just do these three things and you have 10, 000 followers.

You just want to punch them in the face because I've been, you know, in a good Christian way, obviously. Um, because it's just, you're like, I don't know. You know, for the out, like for some people, it is just really easy. They just put it on and all of a sudden they've got 10, 000 downloads and it just happens to have worked for them.

He does graphic design, doesn't he? And people buy his posters. Um, so very much a passion project. But he's, one of the things that's worked well for him is he's figured out how to build the community on Instagram. He was talking a lot about that actually and how Instagram drives more traffic to his website and sales than his email marketing does.

Which leads me to think his email marketing's broken, which I did speak to him. But, I think that He was super intentional about that and it's taken him two, three, four years to build, to build that audience and that community up and just having something interesting and just posting something, understanding who you need, all those things are super important but you're right, find where they are and just keep hitting that, that place where they're at to build that community and just be active in it.

Matt Edmundson: I have no idea.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes. I know what I was going to say. So for something like B2B, actually, no, no, scrap that. But like for what, let's just go with what you were saying about Nick using Instagram to drive traffic.

To his website. And it's obviously worked. What about something like podcasting? So if you've got a podcast and you're, you're posting on Instagram, is that really effective as effective as, um, or would something like email marketing be better?

Matt Edmundson: Well, that's a really deep question. Cause it's

Sadaf Beynon: more of a service or, well, it depends what it is, what you do, I suppose, but.

Matt Edmundson: think it does. And I think if you're hosting a podcast and you're wanting to use Instagram, for example, to grow your podcast, I think that makes sense. And I think you can find, especially if you're in a niche market, you'll find eventually keep posting stuff out there and, and, and you'll do okay, you might have to put some money behind it to get the initial traction.

So I think, I think that can work. I think if you've already got an Instagram following, does it make sense to do a podcast? So would it make sense for Nick to do a podcast? I think that's a slightly different question. I think it, I think he and I actually had a conversation about what might make a bit more sense for him.

Um, he could definitely do a podcast around the creative process, um, about, you know, Being a medical doctor and following your dreams. I mean he's got a really interesting story and he could, he could do, he could do something around that which would build that community. I think it would be very hard to do a audio podcast around something that's visual.

Yeah. Um, and his stuff is very visual so I think he'd have to do the video podcast side of things. Hmm. Unless he did an audio podcast around something that was connected with it. So he could do something like, Uh, like a daily devotional podcast, um, to appeal to the Christian listener, um, growing that audience who will ultimately, you know, the, out of that audience comes his customers.

Yeah,

Sadaf Beynon: and I guess that what you just said that it is very visual, Instagram would work well for that. That makes sense too.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it would. Uh, and you know, that kind of Etsy market, I think makes a lot of sense for him. So, yeah, it's not to say he shouldn't do a podcast, but I think at the moment with the resources the way they are, and given that he's already doing okay on Instagram, I'd probably put more.

More of my eggs in that basket. To come back to your question, though, should he grow his email list? Yeah, absolutely. And I think, and this is true for podcast or podcasting. Fundamentally, we're putting content out there. We own the content, but if Apple decides for whatever reason to kick us off their platform, We've got a bit of a problem, right?

For

Matt Edmundson: whatever reason, then he's kind of, he's just out of the game in so many ways. And so the best, highest value thing you can build, you know, for your business is your email list.

And I think this is true for podcasters. We should even probably do an episode on. email list growth for podcasters and get someone to come talk to us about that, because I think it's super, super important. So it's not just about, I've had 10, 000 downloads this month. One of the success metrics, and we've talked about this, actually, how do we grow the, our email list?

Yeah. And encouraging people to subscribe, because that data, you actually own that data. Um, everything else, Meta owns it, Instagram owns it, you know, Apple owns the mechanism for playing podcasts. It could all go a bit wrong later down the line, and I think one of the lessons we've learned from eCommerce is if I can't get the sale of the product, I want to get their email address.

And I think you always mix good content like this type of stuff, but with a regular email newsletter as well. Yeah. Um, and I, and staying in touch that way by email is super, super important. Super important. Yeah. Does that answer your question? It does.

Sadaf Beynon: Thank you.

Matt Edmundson: It's 60. I didn't do it in 10 words.

Sadaf Beynon: Or 60 seconds.

Or 60 seconds.

Matt Edmundson: Anyway.

Sadaf Beynon: No, no, that's good. Thank you.

Matt Edmundson: Next week,

Sadaf Beynon: next week, we have Peter Murphy. So new guest,

You are as always a legend, my friend. And I think it's been invaluable listening to it. And so I think we're putting up John's full interview.

Sadaf Beynon: That's coming out this week. That's coming out this week, end

Matt Edmundson: of this week as well. So do check out the full interview with John. Um, we've only picked out three of, well, four.

I say three or four, four, because we've had four episodes. But we've picked out four snippets that we've talked about. There is so much more in the full interview. So make sure you do listen to John's full interview. Do reach out to him, uh, say hello. As podcasters, we all love to hear from people. So even if you don't want to buy anything, you don't need BattleBox or all that sort of stuff, just drop him a note and say John.

Who's another? He's just fab. I love Pete. Uh, and so, yeah. Anything else from you? Nope. That's it from me. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. We'll see you next time. Bye for now.

Sadaf Beynon: And that brings us to the end of today's episode at Podjunction. If you've enjoyed the insights from this episode and want to hear the full conversation with today's special guest, don't forget to visit podjunction. com, where you'll find more information about how you can join Podjunction Cohort.