Pro tips on how to address employee turnover, toxic workplace culture, and microagressions like when a man interrupts you while speaking. This episode looks at how to show up as your authentic self back in the office when there is such a narrow view of what “professionalism” looks like.

These questions are all addressed in this final episode of season one. It’s raw, it’s vulnerable, and all of that feels like a good note to close out this pilot project season.

Thanks to everyone who's listened. We’d love to hear from you if you enjoyed it or learned something. And wishing you all the best of luck as you prep for your own seasons starting this fall, from wherever you’re listening.

Resources mentioned:

• Adam Grant’s Four Deadly Sins of Toxic Culture
• Harvard Professor Amy Cuddy’s TED Talk on Power Poses

Sponsors who made this possible:

• Descript
• Lume Cube

Podcast - Season 1 Episode 8

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Hiking and exploring and Yellowstone and Grand Teton. And as I was there. I was thinking about awe, the science of awe. And the reason for this is in some ways obvious I'm in the middle of nature and these glorious, wonderful national parks, but this particular subject I had been. Just a few months ago, doing a bunch of studying up on the science behind awe. And this is for a big project I've been working on that. I can't wait to tell you about it. I can't just yet, but just for now, the sake of this conversation.

Oh, I hope I don't butcher their names. I think it's Docker Keltner and Jonathan Haidt. And what they say is that awe expands our perception of time. It helps people feel connected to others. And awe even makes us more generous. They say, awe, is central to the experience of religion, politics, nature, and art. That's a direct quote.

Final two: nature and art is exactly what I'm talking about right here. And I just love how nature and art are grouped together as pillars of awe inspiring experiences. There are paper goes on to talk about being a part of something bigger than ourselves. I think that feels very natural to the definition of awe.

And. Nature provides that. The majesty of the grand Tetons provides that. Astonishing views at Yellowstone with just so much vastness of scenery provides that. And also 80 or 90 people performing on stage together provides that. Fantastic art. However you define that for yourself, provides that. So this idea of awe and just connecting the nature bit of it with the art bit of it, just really, I was like feeling the feelings on this y'all and I'll wrap up by saying there was a followup to this landmark paper. This comes from UC Berkeley, Dr. Allen Summer there.

He was summarizing the research saying, quote," if you've hiked among giant sequoias stood in front of the Taj Mahal or observed a particularly virtuosic musical performance. You may have experienced the mysterious and complex emotion known as awe" end quote. So this feeling of splendor and wonder and awe really filled me up this past week if you can't tell.

And now I'm back. I'm doing this final recording or at least final for now, for this season. Now that I'm back, I've started working with two new clients this week, as I'm recording this as well. And looking ahead to the fall and into next year, there's several really cool projects in the works. That again, I just can't wait to share with you.

And today we are talking about the four deadly sins of toxic work cultures. So we'll get into that later. We're also talking about not holding back, being yourself, showing up as your full self. Really hitting, I will say, in this final episode, some gendered issues, we do not talk about publicly in the arts so much. I feel like I'm asked a lot of these questions.

Not publicly quite often, or have conversations with friends and colleagues, but here we are putting it out there in this format. So it's a little raw and vulnerable today, and that's okay. Being yourself in a way that feels authentic to who you are, having the confidence and energy that comes from that.

To me that feels like a really good way to end this season. So one more time. I want to thank our sponsors, Descript and LUME Cube for making this season possible. One more time this season, let's hit it.

I'm Aubrey Bergauer, and welcome to my podcast. If we haven't met, I'm known in the arts world for being customer centric, data obsessed, and for growing revenue. The arts are my vehicle to make the change I want to see in this world, like creating places of belonging, pursuing gender and racial equality, developing high performing teams and leaders, and leveraging technology to elevate our work.

In this show, I'm answering your questions on how to build the vibrant future we know is possible, both for our institutions and for ourselves as offstage administrators and leaders. To submit a question, send a voice recording to hello@aubreybergauer.com.

Cause I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. And then nobody knows what's happening. Our CEO is great, but has like a million other things like running the orchestra to do. And I guess how to manage that and, you know, relationships with new people and stuff like that.

A few things are coming to mind for me on this. The first is I want to share some recent research. I came across on toxic work cultures. This comes from Adam Grant. What he says and what the research found is that toxic work cultures are the biggest driver of turnover. He was sharing this on his Worklife podcast for anybody who's a fan of him or his work. I personally can't get enough of all the work and research he shares.

And this research that he was talking about toxic work cultures came out during the last few months, during the great resignation that we're experiencing right now. I don't know if that's what's happening there for you. I'm just saying , as a matter of fact, toxic work cultures are the biggest driver of turnover, more than burnout. And more than low pay. This is not to say that we don't need to have a conversation about the underpaid status of our staff members. So please don't hear me saying that. However, more than burnout, more than low pay, which while those are real things happening in all of our lives right now, more than that though, toxic work culture is the top driver of turnover.

Okay. Again, that's new research coming right out of the last several months or so. And Adam Grant goes on to share what he defines as the four deadly sins of culture. So you can decide everybody listening to side if any of these sound familiar to you. The first is an organization that tolerates results over relationships. So anybody who knows me knows that I believe in building teams that know how to execute. I believe in results, I prioritize results. However, where it becomes toxic is when organizations prioritize or tolerate in his words, results over relationships. Meaning bad actors who get things done are tolerated.

Selfish actions, but yet they get things done and get results are tolerated, and not just tolerated, but offered promotions, offered pathways to more leadership roles. That is the number one sin of the four deadly sins of toxic work culture. Number two, he says is a mediocracy culture. Again, you can decide if this sounds familiar. Tolerating or promoting rewarding being liked over and getting results. I feel like this one, I probably see at arts organizations more if I had to choose, but that's my own experience and anecdotal take on this. So another way to look at this as the Peter Principle. If anybody's heard of the Peter Principle, it's saying people get promoted to the. Like basically to their level of incompetence, like mediocre results type people get promoted just to the level beyond what they're able to handle. And so that's how we get some less than effective managers and leadership roles, I would say. Okay. So that's the number two deadly sin of toxic culture, a mediocracy culture. Number three is what Adam Grant calls a bureaucracy culture, all rules, no risks.

He says, this means new ideas are threats to the status quo. This one also to me, I definitely see this a lot. As somebody who's built their brand on bringing change, bringing different results. We've talked in previous episodes about some risk taking and had you balanced that within a culture, a bureaucracy culture? And its most extreme form is all rules, no risks. And yes, new ideas are a threat to the status quo. I think in broad strokes that probably applies to many of our organizations.

The fourth, deadly sin of culture according to Adam Grant is anarchy. So it's the opposite of bureaucracy. It's all risks, but no rules. No one learns from the past. It kind of devolves into pure chaos. So you can see how these go too into in terms of like different sides of the coin, maybe. So.

Just to reiterate them. An organization that tolerates results over relationships. The opposite of that, the mediocracy culture tolerating being liked over results. Bureaucracy culture, all rules, no risks, and anarchy culture, all risks, no rules. And I don't know again, if any of those apply to your organization there, but I just, when I was hearing that research recently thought, wow, there's definitely some things that feel familiar to me. So I wanted to share that here in case it's helpful to you as well.

The other thing I want to say as I was listening to your question is that. Wow. The turnover in development specifically is so real. At any given moment. I can't remember the exact stat on this, but development professionals, many of you may have heard this I'm guessing, but at any given moment, it is something like half of all nonprofits are looking for ahead of development. It, I can't remember if that's exactly the right number, but it is something quite extreme that so many nonprofits at any given moment are looking for ahead of fundraising. And that stat is from pre pandemic. That's not even now with all the turnover we're seeing. So. I just want to say you're not alone and experiencing a lot of turnover, especially as somebody working in fundraising. And the last thing coming to mind on this one is- and this has worked for me to where I'm going to, what I'm going to say here -is to really focus on a mental shift. It is so easy to say, wow, this has bananas, which is true. You can acknowledge that. Yes. There's a lot of uncertainty. There is a lot of. Unknowns and just sort of maybe disorganization when we are down staff members and.

So it's fine to say that and acknowledge that, of course. But instead of dwelling in that, the mental shift that I wanted to talk about here is to shift, to say, "what's the opportunity here?" And to me, there are a few things that are opportunities admits a very bizarre or challenging time, like a hundred percent staff turnover on your team.

So the first is if you're not the hiring manager on that team. Can you be the welcome wagon when those roles are filled? Can you be the one to unofficially onboard somebody? There's a whole lot to be said on the lack of onboarding that happens at our organizations, which I think contributes to the turnover we see later. So whole other topic area there we could get into.

But if you're not the one hiring, can you be that welcome wagon? The unofficial. And board's them. Welcome Sam. Sets the culture in many ways that you want to see going forward, or at least as much as you can and your role in scope.

The second opportunity, I talk about this a lot in the online courses I lead, which is assumed authority. This is something I first heard Sheryl Sandberg talk about years ago. But assumed authority is taking on more in your role. Not necessarily to become overworked, that's not the goal, but taking on more because that's what the moment allows for. So when you're down staff members, it is a prime opportunity for that. Somebody has to get the work done. When somebody's missing or multiple roles are empty, the work still has to be done. So it's a real opportunity to start taking on more that grows your scope, grows your authority and its assumed authority because you're not asking permission, you're seeing a need, oh, this thing needs to be done.

This report needs to be run. This donor needs to be, thanked, whatever that looks like for your team. Assume the authority and just do it. And. That has really helped my career in many ways. And it's helped according to research helps a lot of people grow their scope. And especially as a woman, I got to say those opportunities are not always handed to us. So when we see the opportunity and are able to step up and fill a need. Not in a land grabbing way, but in a benevolent way that serves our organization it really can work well for us. Somebody has to pick up the slack is what I'm trying to say. And that equals opportunity for us.

A third area of opportunity I think for situations like this is if you are hiring and a person responsible for hiring, it is a great time and moment to reassess what needs to happen? How do we practice a more equitable search process? I am becoming more and more bullish, maybe as the word on our hiring practices. And the more I see in, especially in the last many months where there is so much hiring going on, I see time and again, the way this is so systemically broken. And by broken, I mean, let's call it. Biased gender biased in many cases, racist and many cases oppressive. And I will say though, when I see these things happening, It's probably always unintentional. I think, I don't know. I just I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not trying to assume malintent. I'm trying to say that I see a problem in this business with our hiring practices and I see great talent being sidelined because the process wasn't set up to elicit who has the skills needed for each job. Instead, we're going on gut-feel and things like that. So if you are in a position of hiring, these moments where I know it's so hard, because I've been there when you just need to fill the role, because you're just trying to keep your head above water and your team is trying to keep their heads above water. I know it's so difficult, but to take an extra beat in that moment to think, okay, what can we do differently to make sure this process is equitable and fair? In order to get the best people on the bus that we need, it's a real opportunity for you as a hiring manager is what I'm trying to say and worth it in the long run to take that moment for that.

So all of this is very hard in the mire of it. I know all of these different things I've said, but I offer that just to say, if we can have a little bit of a mental shift, even amongst. Lots of turnover and open roles and picking up the slack and all of that. If we can have that mental shift, it serves us more than just wallowing and how bananas that can sound at the moment. So I hope that helps. Thank you for the question. Good luck with all the turnover. I know it's hard.

You don't need to conform, but you need to be aware. That I think is my advice on this. I think the pandemic helped all this a lot. You know, there's so many people talking about these very specific gender norms, I've heard so many people say I'm never wearing high heels again, for example. Right. And.

Those kinds of shifts, even though maybe minor sounding our shifts and the expectations. So this idea of what needs to happen, the definition of professionalism is shifting very slowly. Let's be honest here, very slowly, I think, but it is beginning to shift. So there's that.

So given all of that, I believe people should show up with how they're comfortable. That helps us be more confident that helps us do our best work. Maybe comfortable it doesn't mean you're wearing your zoom sweatpants and Uggs to the meeting in the office, but is there another way to be comfortable and reflect yourself in a way that feels true and authentic to you?

That does allow you to show up as your best, right? That's the question I'm asking. And I think if we do that show up in a way, again, that we're comfortable, we're confident the world does need to catch up. So do we need to be clean? Yes. Do we need to be groomed?, you know, who defines groom? So that's a tricky word, right. But I think that's where these definitions are.

Are shifting. Even as it comes out of my mouth, I think I don't know that I have all the answers. I'm sort of just riffing out loud on all of this right now, but.

I just think these gender norms have to shift. And I think the pandemic has helped with that too.

The other thing we need to do is reflect the culture that we want in others. So this sort of goes back to the first question. Like, can we be that person in the office that's helping welcome people who look, different dress different. Don't fit that very, again, narrow definition of quote, unquote professionalism. Like let's throw that out the window and instead praise people publicly for their good work, even when they don't fit a definition of what traditionally looked like they would fit in at our organizations. So again, I do not have all the answers here. I'm just trying to answer this question the best I know how.

I'll add to this. Somebody asked me a similar question to this not too long ago. It was a very tall woman. And. It's kind of the version of the question for them was I'm very tall. I had this overbearing presence. How do I take up space and look confident when I'm already such a big presence and. All I could think of is.

A Tall man would never ask about this. Right. And, I'm trying to remember it. At least not in my experience as a man ever asked me about what he should be wearing to work. So this is somehow so gendered. of a question that women are thinking about, you know, do I do the hair and the makeup and the clothes and the heels and all that. And so much whiteness to that too.

So I just want to name, this is very gendered. This question is very gendered. It's not lost on me that I've had multiple women ask about this. So I, so thank you for sending the question in, because I hope other people listening. Have something in here that resonates with them and they identify with as well.

To put some research to all of this. I'll offer that research says we're evaluated in terms of first impressions. This is specifically. We were evaluated first and foremost on if we are trustworthy. Hopefully this helps alleviate any kind of fears or concerns for anyone. It's less about are they wearing the right thing? Quote, unquote. And how one looks and more about how do I carry myself with confidence and purpose? I was just saying earlier, can we show up in a way that we feel confident? Purposeful is so compelling, so much more compelling than any blazer on the planet. And I say, this is somebody who really loves a strong blazer game. Okay. But so much more than any of that is confidence. Purpose, authenticity.

How do I take up physical space? All of this research is coming from Amy Cuddy. She's a psychologist and professor at the Harvard Business School. Her Ted talk is super famous. So if anybody's seen the Ted talk on kind of doing the Superman poses or like stand in the bathroom and the Superman pose for two minutes before going into an interview, like if you've heard that kind of stuff, that is from Amy Cuddy's research. And she is the one that her research shows again and again, I just want to repeat it because it's so important for first impressions. First and foremost, we are evaluated on if we are trustworthy. So everything I said about these narrow definitions of professionalism and what do we look like and how do we physically show up again, if we're comfortable in our own skin and dressing, I think is a tool to help us be most comfortable and confident in our own skin.

If we do that, if we take up physical space, all of that is how we project. Our natural confidence that we're feeling within and purpose, and that is more important to a first impression with somebody else. So I hope that's helpful. To me, that makes a lot of sense when we are naturally showing up as ourselves. However, we like our hair and our makeup or not makeup and clothes.

That breeds that and sets up path for us. So the last thing I'll say, Amy Cuddy talks about not fake it till you make it, but she famously, I think this is maybe even the last line or one of the last lines of her Ted talk. She says, fake it till you become it. And this is specifically with physical posture.

So we say so much that physical things start mentally. And she says, in terms of this conversation, confidence showing up in a way that we want to project our knowledge and expertise. She says it starts physically. So sit up straight don't hunch over. I'm the worst at hunting over, sit up straight, try to take up physical space. When I speak, I make a lot of gestures. I'm a hand talker naturally, but I've learned from her and other coaches, public speaking, coaches, lessons, that kind of thing that really taking up the physical space is the first step.

And our mental disposition follows that. So when in doubt, you know, sit up straight, roll those shoulders back. Be confident and own it because that is who you are and you've got this. All of that is way more than anything about superficial appearance. So I hope this is helpful. What a great question, because I know, I know other women are asking this too, so thank you so much for it.

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A few things come to mind on this one as well. I'm going to cite Adam Grant's research again. He says, quote, "you are not a high performer if you don't elevate others."

Period. That's the quote. So for everybody listening to this. Male female non-binary. However you identify, we have got to elevate others. We must elevate our coworkers. It's so important. Elevate others, who we come in contact with professionally and personally. You're not a high performer, if you don't do that. And I believe that more and more. Just how critical it is. I think that really matches. Everything else that we've said so far today in this episode. So that's the first thing. So what does this mean? How does this play out? When we're not the one being interrupted and we see this happening, go to bat for that person. It is so much easier to defend somebody else than ourselves. There's a bunch of reasons why that is there science behind that, psychology behind that. And we can absolutely do it without being mean or rude or abrasive.

So. When we see our colleagues being interrupted by somebody else, we can speak up and say, Hey, can we just go back to that? I just want to hear what she was saying. Or, oh, can we just have her finish that thought I really was hoping to catch the end of that, you know, whatever that looks like we can absolutely again, speak up without being rude or mean or abrasive. So can we please commit to each other to do that, to defend our colleagues, speak up during meetings and be that ally.

And if we all can just commit to doing that, that right there is going to make a big difference. I'm sure there are some people listening to this and thinking, oh yeah, this happens to me. And then there's some people thinking, oh, I hadn't really thought about this before. And that's okay. No matter where you fall on that spectrum. That's okay. But I hope that now that we're talking about it. It's something that we can't unsee. That is my wish for this question being raised so that we can do something about it. And again, be those colleagues that say. No, I really do want to hear that point she was making, or I'm so curious, how does this story end or whatever it is, you know, be that person that really helps set that person up to be able to finish.

Same thing goes for, I'm sure many of us have seen this play out, you know, somebody has an idea. This is gender. So often of if a woman has an idea, then maybe it's not given time, credibility, space in the meeting. And then somebody else, generally a man comes in and says, oh, you know what I was thinking, offers a version of the same idea. And then suddenly that's the one that gets praise credit. That's what we're running with. And these things are microaggressions happening. One-off is not the end of the world. That's for sure. But when it happens a lot, It changes opportunities that people see, who gets offered the promotion, who doesn't, who gets invited to the next meeting about that topic and who doesn't. So it's very important. This is another one. When we see that happening, please speak up on behalf of our colleagues.

It's one of the most, I think, empowering things we can do. And we, again, it goes right back to you are not a high performer if you don't elevate others, that is how this plays out. Okay. I just want to go back to hear her idea or, oh, that's a great idea. You know, that's just like, what's, so-and-so just said how interesting, again, it doesn't have to be rude or mean, okay.

The way this played out. If you remember, Pence kept interrupting her, this happens in debates. So again, this is not a political statement, but he kept interrupting and she was a masterclass in how to, when there's not somebody there to defend you in jump in how to be the one that defends yourself.

And she would just say, "excuse me, I'm speaking." Not too mean. Not too nice. Not too smiling. I'm sorry that these are the things that women have to think about, but wow. She nailed it and he would continue and then she would continue. "I'm speaking."

And I even remember, I remember watching it in the moment. I'm thinking, wow, what she is doing is masterful because of all of the barriers put on women and how we move in the world. And again, she's not mean she's not too nice. She's not too smiley, but she is commanding attention in space and authority.

"Excuse me. I'm speaking." And the commentators afterwards is what I was going to say. I remember them saying. 100%. She practiced how to handle being interrupted. And I was very taken by that of. Right. This is something we can practice. It's going to keep happening. So, you know, for better or for worse women, we have opportunity to practice defending ourself. "Excuse me. I would like to finish this." And I don't know. I know that there can be backlash for that. So I don't offer this as a mandate for women. I offer this as a suggestion on when we do want to speak up and defend ourselves something that we can say, you know, excuse me. I'm speaking. Excuse me. I'd like to finish this thought one moment. Let me just finish this sentence here.

And. I don't know, if somebody can't handle that. It's pretty clear to me. These are people I don't want to be working with, especially if it's a repeated offense, like I said, one off things. These happen. It's the problem with microaggressions is when they build up over time. So. be people who can stand up for ourselves, but also definitely go to bat for those colleagues, defend our colleagues. I hope we cannot unsee it now that we've seen it. So to speak, heard it in this podcast format.

So thank you for the question. All of these questions today. Wow. So important. So vulnerable, so real.

I hope this helps us all aspire to be better colleagues, to bring the change that we need in this industry, including how we advocate for those around us. It is go time on this issue and all of the others we've covered, not just in today's episode, but in this season. And it cannot wait. Thanks again for listening, for sending the question in.

Hey Off Stagers. Okay. You're here listening to this podcast where I'm answering questions, and one of the questions I get asked often is how to apply these topics, ideas, and action items to your own organization. If you've been listening to the podcast and thinking, how can we do this more effectively at my own organization? Or how can we hear more specific insights that apply directly and uniquely to my own organization or situation? I'd love to hear from you.

Working with me isn't for everyone, I have to say that. I tell potential clients all the time I'm not a match for them. You have to be ready to think about doing things differently in order to produce different results. But if you're listening to this podcast, that's a pretty good indication that you're interested in a way forward that helps build the vibrant future your organization needs and deserves. Contact me at hello@AubreyBergauer.com for more information or to talk it through. hello@AubreyBergauer.com Hope to hear from you soon.

That's all for today. Folks, not just for this episode, but for this whole season. Thanks so much for listening to this pilot project experiment. I'd love to hear from you if anything was particularly helpful, and keep up with more content like this by following me on LinkedIn, Instagram or Twitter @aubreybergauer. Definitely hit that follow button to subscribe to this podcast as I have some ideas for future seasons we're already cooking up.

Meanwhile if you liked what you heard here, one last time, will you please leave a review or rating? I and others will be so grateful for your help and support in that. Thanks again. See you next time for season two

The Offstage Mic was produced by me, Aubrey Bergauer, and made possible by Descript. I used to Descript to record, edit, set audio levels, and make the trailer as well as the video teasers on social media. I couldn't have done it without them. And I recommend any marketing team or individual creator should definitely use this tool too. Thanks again to Descript for making this project and many others I've done possible. This is a production of Changing the Narrative.