Psilocybin Journeys: Safe, Sacred & Transformational Plant Medicine

Artwork for podcast Spirit Sherpa ~ Spiritual Growth for Spiritual Entrepreneurs

Episode 317 • 6th August 2023 • Spirit Sherpa ~ Spiritual Growth for Spiritual Entrepreneurs • Kelle Sparta | Spiritual Coach and Business Coach

Hello, and welcome to Spirit Sherpa, the show that helps and encourages you on your journey to unlock your magic mojo. I'm Jules, your co-host. If you're new to this work, uh, you need to go back to episode one and binge listen forward. If you're an in- intermediate, go ahead and start with episode 98, and if you're an advanced practitioner, go ahead and start with episode 200.

With me as always to share her insights and wisdom is a spirit doctor herself, Kelle Sparta. Hey, Kelle. How are you today? Hey, Jules. I'm excited. Are we excited? We're so excited. We are going... Yes, we're gonna go on a, we're gonna go on an adventure today. Yeah. We're taking our, our tribe to the, to, on an adventure.

Yeah. And I'm excited. Yeah. But- Because we're going on a magic mushroom adventure. We're, we're, we're going on a magic carpet ride, right? Yeah. Yeah, so yeah. Um, I really wish we had started this episode with the magic carpet ride but, you know, I'm pretty sure the copyright would kill... You know, they'd probably kill me on the, the, the, uh, whatever the residuals are on that or whatever it is.

Yes. Yes. But, uh, but, uh- We do not own the rights to this music. Yeah. Right. So, um, so i- for those of you who have been with, with me for a long time, you will know, uh, you're probably shocked at the title of this episode. Um, and, uh, y- you know, there's good reason for that, and that's because every time somebody brings up psilocybin or ayahuasca or peyote journeys, any plant medicine journeys, I have been on the freaking A, don't do it platform because so many people are going places that are either treating them as tourists and not honoring the medicine, um, and just taking the money, right?

Uh, and, and let me be really clear. This medicine is some serious stuff, and it will kick your freaking ass if you do not treat it with respect. And which is why I'm like, mm, you know? Avoid, avoid, avoid because there are so many places that are doing it as a tourism industry, and so many people who are not doing it in a way that is safe, right?

There's no safety involved. There's nobody there who's not on the journey to make sure something's o- i- if somebody has an allergic reaction or, you know, God forbid, they, they get stuck and, and have a psychotic break, which does happen, guys. If you're not prepared for this medicine, you can go there, right?

And if you're in it in a tourism space and you're not prepared and you're not doing the work to prepare you for the journey and you don't have any aftercare, it, it can really mess you up, and that is why I've always been of the don't do it variety. Now, at the same time of I'm at the don't do it variety, I also know that i- if it's done well, if it's done properly, if it's-

done in a, in a logically crafted environment with safeties in place, it can be an amazing experience, right? And so, you know, I've only given you the don't do it because I didn't know anybody to send you to. And I have had many people reach out to me over the years, we've been doing this for five years, going, "Ooh, I wanna talk about this."

And I'm like, "Mm, I don't know," right? Because yeah, I happen to know that, you know, there was somebody in one of your programs who did it for way too many times, and that should've, you should've said no to that. Or, you know, I've heard this, or, you know, I interviewed you and you said that. And I, I went, "Mm, I wouldn't go there," therefore I'm not sending people, right?

So what happened was very interesting. The universe lined this one up for, for me. But, um, uh, I don't even know how I came across their website. I think I was doing research on, uh, shamanic retreats and, you know, what people were doing and where they were doing them. I think I was trying to figure out where, where people's retreat centers were so that I could find a retreat center.

I don't remember, but it was a while ago. And, uh, I came across these guys' website. And then I wandered off, as I am want to do when I have a million things on my- Squirrel. Squirrel ... mind. Yeah. Squirrel, squirrel. And, um, and then their PR person reached out and said, "Hey, we'd love to have them on the podcast."

And I went, "Wait. Wait, wait, wait. These are the guys that I liked, right, when I looked at the website." I'm like, "Okay, but, but I have to talk to them before we get on the podcast 'cause I'm not putting them on unless I vet them," right? I wanna make sure that they're doing it the right way, that they've got the right approach, that they're, they're all, everything's lined up.

Because you guys know me- I am a stickler. And so, you know, it, it, it was really hard to make me happy on this, and they made me happy in our conversation. So, uh, w- I wanna just, uh, you know, all this to say, you guys are gonna like these guys, okay? Um, so let me tell you a little bit about them. I'm gonna read their little bio here.

the Journeymen Collective in: 2018

We'll find out for... Uh, I'm, I'm fairly certain that that's what we talked about. It's been a while since we talked. Um, and they actually have their own retreat center in British Columbia, Canada, in the Okanagan Valley in- outside of Vancouver, and I have seen the pictures online. It is stunningly beautiful.

We're gonna talk about that, too. Um, but we're... What I wanna talk about with them today is what it's like to do one of these journeys, how it's done well, and, you know, we'll, we'll go into all the details of that. But welcome to the show, guys. I'm so excited to have you here. I've been really anticipating this episode So you guys are doing mushroom retreats, psilocybin.

Okay. Yeah, so unlike ayahuasca, uh, which I have not done, I have done mushrooms, uh, in, in sacred environments over the years. Um, so I have some experience with it. Um, but tell us about how you're doing your work because I was really impressed with the, the level of actual shamanic aspect of the work that you guys are doing instead of just going, "Oh, well, we're just doing this and that, and, you know, you're having an experience, and it's so cool," right?

Yeah. So talk to us about that. Totally. What I'll do is I'll do my best to create an image in your mind of what the work is that we do. And so if you have a, a lined piece of paper with all the lines across it, uh, we're all familiar with scribblers or notebooks with lines in them. And so if you write down the words integrity, respect, intention, purpose, value, honor, honesty, trust, safety, like, there's words on each one of those lines, and all of those pieces, there's more.

There's more words. But all of those words go through the preparation to come in and work with us. Those also go through and to the intensive experience, the actual journey itself, and then there's also a massive portion of applied integration, which we call the new AI, where you're actually applying the transcendental information that you've received.

And there's a purpose behind the whole entire experience. So it's not in the world of, like, "Oh, I just wanna, like, try and experience what mushrooms are like." No. What are you coming for? What's the purpose? What's the intention of you stepping into this reverential experience where you're gonna be given- a high level of information, and do you have the capacity to move that information through into your understanding so that you learn about yourself, and then you apply it into your life so that you're actually creating with it?

And we teach you how to continue to touch back into those transcendental moments, those aha moments, and continue to pull on those threads. You're pulling on those transcendental threads so that you're weaving them into the tapestry of your soulful, visionary reality. So if you guys could see Jewel's face right now, it is it is classic.

She's just sitting there going, "Wow." Right? So so- My passport's ready. And you're drinking from a mug that says Canada. And I'm drinking from my Canadian... That I got in, when I was in Canada a few years ago. Yes, I am. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. We love it. So, so, uh, you know, this is one of the things that I often do not hear from people who are doing these types of journeys is because they're just holding the space for the journey, and that's it, and that they're in, out and done.

And even if they're doing a good job of holding the space for the journey, they're not actually doing a good job of shepherding the person through the process, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, you c- you g- that was beautiful stereo, guys. Um That was awesome. We'll get you into the choir here shortly, so You do tube and throat singing?

'Cause damn, you'd be good at it. I had a feeling, yeah. I would have to do the course on that, too. So, so but this is the thing, right? So when, when you're going into one of these journeys, you should be going in with an intention. You are there to come into relationship with the plant and the energy of that plant because it can't help you with something in- if you walk in and just go, "Do me," right?

That... It, it doesn't work, right? I mean, it'll give you something, but it's gonna be really chaotic and, and nonspecific and, you know, you're not gonna... It'll probably give you stuff that you won't understand for 20 years, right? Because it's gonna give you whatever it wants to give you, not necessarily what's relevant to the moment.

And so, you know, that's why it's so important to come in with an intention, and I love that you guys set that up. And then, you know, it is a skill to integrate what you've been recei- what you've received, right? Because the The nonlinear space that you enter when you do plant medicine or if you do shamanic journey work or if, uh, anything like that where you're, you're going into nonlinear space, it doesn't operate the same way that physical reality does.

And so most of us have no freaking clue how to take what we got and integrate it into our lives. And the, the sad part is if you don't have a way to anchor it, it will wander off Okay? And you may find it again 15 years from now to five years from now, right? Because it wandered off into non-linear space 'cause you couldn't anchor it into your beingness.

And so, you know, that's the other reason why when I, when I talked to these guys, I was like, "Oh my God, that's so awesome," right? Because that's the way to do it. You definitely need the help in the integration piece, and I've talked about how when people have gone on ayahuasca journeys and they've come back and their energy is, like, messed up and they can't...

Th- they haven't been able to figure out what's going on, and they're disoriented, it's like, yes, you are halfway still in non-linear space, and nobody brought you properly home. Let me get you back in your body. Let me help you integrate your experience. Let me help you fix the things in your aura that got completely screwed up because you traveled while you were out of your body.

You know, it's, you know, all the things that could go horribly wrong in these spaces. So the fact that you guys are doing the integration work is so, so, so important and so rare, actually, in terms of what I see out in the world. So tell us more about why you got into this work. Uh, we got into this work because at the time, uh, my mother had passed away.

and, uh, she transitioned in: 2017

We were sort of happy with it, but we both knew there's something more to offer, uh, other than what we were doing. And, uh, we say this, uh, wonderful woman came into our life, this magical fairy we'll call her, introduced herself, and she heard about our story. She listened to us, and she said, "You might wanna meet my medicine man."

And Robert was the one that was having the conversation with her, and he says, "Medicine man? Tell me more." So she explained on a journey that she went on using psilocybin at a luxury retreat, well, or a luxury home. With no preparation or integration. With no preparation or integration. She just went. She did, uh, two days of ceremony, and then she was sent home.

Uh, we were interested. Well, Robert was interested at first. He's always the guinea pig, and, uh, uh, he went on his journey. I'll let you explain what happened. Yeah, and this is all, like, we both stepped into this space, like, I had been in the personal metaphysical, spiritual, personal development realm for about 15 years.

At that point in time. So it wasn't my first metaphysical rodeo- Right ... that I was stepping into. And I met the medicine with a high level of respect, and I wanted to unpack and learn- Mm-hmm ... more about my gifts that I was just sort of stepping into, and really, like anchoring in in a grounded way. And so, uh, as Gary mentioned, he and I were both going through grief and depression, and we both had our own businesses.

And we were making an impact in the world, but we hadn't quite landed in the pocket of that soulful pocket of like, "Oh, yeah, this is what we're really, really meant to do." And so I went on that journey, and that's a whole another different- ... entire podcast We'll have to have you back for that one. Sorry. Uh- Episode 365.

Yeah. And I was reintroduced and remembered into a, a deeper, uh, aspect or aspects of myself, of my cosmic being, and was basically ushered into birthing new versions of myself. And I was capable of, of grounding that back into reality, uh, because of all the work that I had done previously, and I really wanted to honor the medicine, really wanna, uh, wanted to honor the work.

So there was already a high level of integrity operating in my system. And, uh, I found a new level of joy, and the depth of conversations that I was having with the medicine man was like, "This is what I want to do. These are the conversations. This is the level, the high level work that I wanna be having with people, and helping them ground it back into reality, grounding it into, into life, into love, and/or their business."

And so Gary went on his journey after he saw the shift in me, 'cause I'd found my joy. Um- Can we jokingly say he found his G-spot? Joy. Joy spot.

Joy spot. I am all about finding the joy spot. If I can find it a few times, I will make it keep. I'm just saying out there, mm-mm. I will take it.

So hi, Robert. Oh, Gary. Tell me, we, we've been here. Oh, blushing so much. It's so warm in here now. That's a re- that's a redefinition or reintroduction all onto itself, honey. It's been

a podcast. We're not editing it out. So bringing it back, uh, I saw the shift in Robert, and I thought, "Well, perhaps I can shift." I was saying I was walking like in a quagmire. It was slow and sluggish. And I was like I need to do this. And so I spoke with the medicine man, and I understood what the process was and what we were gonna go through, and it just tied in perfectly.

It was May 5th. We spread my mother's as- ashes. We had a celebration of life for her. That was her birthday. My birthday was May 6th, so I gifted the journey to self, and it was the biggest gift that I could have ever given myself. Uh, the shift, I came back in alignment. I, uh-- The medicine man says, "You're back in your pillar of strength.

You are who you're supposed to be in the world." We spoke about my visions and how this is the path that we're supposed-- Robert and I are supposed to be on, and all the signs were there. And then, uh, when I came home and I told Robert, I said, "The visions were this is the path that we're supposed to be on, similar to the medicine man."

And we thought, "Well, how is this gonna work? How do we develop this?" And then we spoke to the medicine man, and Robert spoke to him. Mm-hmm. And so then we embarked on that journey 'cause there was a deep, visceral knowing that, okay, like, this is the next level, the next step of that embodied work that we're to offer people.

And one of the things when we went through the training, and of course, we're bringing, like, forty-plus years of mind-body conscious awareness training from Gary, twenty-plus years with Rob, and many, many lifetimes of doing this together. And so when we really sat down and looked at, like, what is it that we want?

What is it that our soul is calling us to bring forward in the world? And this is where in one of the journeys that we were going through in the training, I was seeing people go to work, go into businesses, and they're not conscious about what they're doing. They're just doing it for the, the payday. And one of the things that came out of that was, okay, how do we language this?

And it's helping people transition from business to conscious business so that they're actually engaged in their business in a passionate way, in a purposeful way. And then as a result, that whole thing of profit and money and whatever else takes care of itself. But you don't have to go home at the end of the day and And satiate your depression because you're not living in your own pocket.

You're not living in that groove in your own lane of what you're really truly here to create. Because most people wanna make a contribution, and they actually have just fallen into cultural paradigms of what, like, this is what life is. This is the, the American or the, the First World dream that you're supposed to be in, and they get there, and it's like, "Huh, this is it really?

I've got all the things, but there's still a piece of me that I haven't connected into yet." And so that, that whole process of us unearthing ourselves has created this space for people to come in to reconnect with themselves through a deep clearing. And the, the other piece with this too is that it's a guided experience all the way from the, from the first discovery call that we have with people, that's guided.

Then the preparation is guided, the intensive experience is guided, and the applied integration is guided as well. Um, so- Which I'm gonna jump in- That's a big point ... because it's super important, right? Yeah, yeah. Because here's the thing, and, and you, you guys experienced this with the medicine man, that when you have someone from a tribal culture, they're raised in a way where they know how to manage themselves in meditative space.

They know how to manage them- they, they, they learn from a very young age how to bring their messages back and integrate them. And so that it is just part of them. And we've had this ... I've told this story before because Cathy went to an event where a, a Mayan shaman came, and she told everybody to go in, in a

I think there ... She said there were, like, 300 or 600 people in the room, a lot, big, big room. And she told them to go in and, and confront their biggest fear And most people in the room dialed it down, right? And they, they went, "Hmm, this feels like I could do this one," right? This one lady did not, and she got lost in her vision, and sh- the, her fear started eating her.

And the, the Mayan shaman had no idea what to do for her because in her culture, everybody kn- uh, the, a five-year-old could do this, right? And w- what, what is the problem? And she just walked off and left the woman. And so Kathy and another participant went in and got her and pulled her out, right? Um, but this is, this is the thing is that, um, it, they're not trying to be irresponsible.

They just come from a completely different culture in which they, they don't understand that there are people who don't know this. I mean, I run into people all the time where I say, "Have you ever done a guided meditation?" They're like, "No. What's that?" I'm like, "Seriously?" I'm like, right? But, but it, I, or you know, I was z- you know, somebody was, was like g- you know, "Well, it's like reiki."

"What's reiki?" I'm like, "Really?" Right? So you know, there's, it's that sort of, of perspective on it. When you've, when you've lived in it and you've grown up in it, it, it's obvious to you, but it's not obvious to people who haven't. And so the fact that you guys brought your knowledge and tacked it onto the stuff that you learned from the medicine man was, uh, the, the key, right?

Because n- people in the Western world w- we, we don't have any concept of this stuff. We don't have the slightest idea how to, you know, I mean, hell, we, we don't even know what the hell we want, right? Let's start with that, right? And so you know, to try and get to that is, is, is its own challenge. And then coming out the other side and figuring out how to integrate it is another piece too.

So I'm, I, I just needed to insert that because, you know, there's, there's that piece. And they need to understand why you put the front and the back on because that was crucial for Western culture. Yes. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And, and it's like to create an image in someone's mind who's listening, like we're looking out onto the mountains here in, in Kelowna, and it's-- you're going on a, on a hike, but this is a, a, a metaphysical hike inwardly.

We're going on a hike together. You're out in front. We're with you side by side, and we're guiding you through that process so that you can examine yourself and so that you don't necessarily get stuck in one loop for five hours because we hear about that so often. Like, "Oh yeah, I've done, I've done mushrooms, and, like, it was horrible.

I was in one thought for five hours." Like, yeah. Did you have guidance? No. And that is why people need the guidance because they don't know how to navigate the inner landscapes. And so we're there. We're working with you the entire time during the intensive process. We don't call it a retreat because there's nothing to retreat from.

And when you have that guidance moving you through the metaphysical wilderness of your soul, that's where you can really clear away anything that's no longer serving you. We're working with you on so many different levels. The most elemental is the, the spiritual, the mental, emotional, and the physical.

And once that clearing takes place, then people can connect more deeply with themself, and they meet themselves in so many different ways. And then with that deeper connection, the expanded awareness happens of, "Oh my goodness, like, I'm more than just me. I'm connected to everything." They connect into what some people might call the universal laws, and they recognize that, "Oh my goodness, like, I am a frequency, and I can create my own reality.

I'm limitless." But there's a visceral understanding of that at a core level and- It's so bloody important to, A, that's one thing that we do help people with is what do you want? And so many people have a hard time distilling what that is. And so that's the key piece too, is that where is this knowledge, where is this knowledge that you're receiving?

Where, where are you focusing it? Where is that slipstream that you're putting th- that transcendental knowledge into? And you're gonna be carried through this quantum river and, of discovery. But if it's just, "Meh, I'll just see what's going on in the world," no, that's not gonna help you at all. And so it's all about what are you creating in your life, in your love, in your business or businesses, and doing it in a conscious way so that when you're 80, 90, 100, 120, you can lay your head down for that final time and really truly know that what you have come here for in this lifetime has been expressed, it has been created to help mankind, planetkind, cosmickind.

All right, Jewel, I, I'm looking at the look on your face. You got something to say. Yeah. Well, okay. So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm the student, right? So okay. So, um, how long been w- I've been with you may- I, I lose track. Three, four years? Yeah, three and a half years. Three years, maybe? Yeah, three years. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. All right. And so, so I'm, I'm, I'm figuring this out. I've never done anything like what y'all talking about. So um, okay, so when you're guiding me down the path, okay, am I... I, sorry if this is a dumb, dumb question. I literally do not know anything about this. Am I literally walking through the woods in this beautiful landscape, or is my...

But, like, I'm sitting down, and, like, y'all are there, and I'm seeing stuff. I mean, I don't know what the mushrooms do. I have no clue on any of this stuff. So before you come, we will prepare you, uh, to practice, uh, meditation, to go into stillness. So you're going into stillness. I know that much. You're not, uh, the only wilderness- That's part of her, her learning.

Yeah ... Good. The only wilderness you're going through is the wilderness within. You're, there is no, uh, going out, um, experiencing the outer world 'cause this is an inner world journey. You're going to be, uh- Wow ... on a mat, comfortable, beautiful mats with, um, bedding and pillows- In a luxurious environment ... a luxury environment.

There'll be beautiful music playing. Just to let you know, we don't chant, sing, dance, or do rattles and snakes. You don't want to hear me sing. You, we don't hear us sing. We may harmonize a few minutes ago, but that's only once in a blue moon. But the thing is, you're going into stillness, and you're resting into yourself.

You're letting go, giving up... You're not giving up control. You're just letting yourself be free and be in the moment and just be open to see What visuals come are shown to you. Um, you go in with, um, open eyes, open heart, open mind, and during the journey process, we are there with you side by side physically and on the internal plane.

We're, uh, guiding you, we're supporting you, we're caring for you. Uh, somebody says we're loving on you, and, uh, it's just the-- we feel it's the safest environment to be in. There's multiple environments to go in, but you have to find the one that's gonna suit you and for your purpose and what journey you want to experience.

Us, after the journey is over, we would start the integration It's integrations. It's you telling us about what you're, what you're, what you're going to s- what you've seen on the inside. Mm. And that's sometimes we don't pull out of you. We let you discuss with the group, with us, when you're ready. The next day is the full day of integration of what you did see, and we will encourage you to talk about it, uh, pull on things that we might have sensed into, things that you, uh, are unsure of why the vision was shown to you.

And this is the discovery, and this is how you're going to take all that information and move forward with your life. Uh, we ... You're with us in person for four days. Uh, the first day was, uh, the ceremony. The second day is integration. The third day is another ceremony, completely different than the first day, of course.

It only makes sense. Again, you're in stillness, and you're on the mat. Integration days, we do take you out of the center and go into our, our wilderness, our forest, and walk, uh, like, uh, forest bathing. Uh, just get some fresh air, get the body moving. Sometimes we're close to the lake. We may go to the lake and just meditate at the lake.

Um, but the third day is, again, um, is your ceremony. And again, we're there right with you all the way. The fourth day is integration, another full day, and again, that's taken outside, back inside. There's a lot of meditation, a lot of journaling, a lot of discussion. Usually, we're doing groups of three or four, no more.

Sometimes we do do solo clients, depending on the situation and whether they want to be, uh, in a private environment, or they want to be in a social environment. And then on the fifth morning, it's a sad departure for all of us. Most of the time the clients want to stay and live with Rob and Gary, and, uh, we have to gently encourage them to leave the nest.

But we've fully prepared you to as much as we can that you're going to step into the world as the true self, the true you. Mm-hmm. Because you left all your baggage on the mat and on the floor and at the door. Now, I watched your face, Jewel. I watched- Oh, yeah. Sorry. You had a confusion moment when they said they were there with you physically and in the energetic space that you're g- in the journey, right?

Um- Uh-huh. Yeah. A good shaman can follow your journey. That's the reason why you do a small group, right? Because you can't monitor 15 or 20 people. It's not possible to monitor that many people at once. So with two people facilitating, then they can keep track of two people, right? And so, you know, you're actually in the journey.

You, so i- people think of their inner space as being theirs, but it's actually, a- and it's ours 'cause we're all one, right? We're all one Y- yeah, yeah. We're all connected So your inner space, my inner space, they're all connected, right? And- So they can see what I'm seeing? So they can see what you're seeing, yeah.

Oh, shut up. We, we see snippets. We have shown, like, snapshots- Mm-hmm ... of what goes on within your journey, and we've learned to accept those and not question them- Mm ... as like, "Okay, that's something I need to remember." And this is when the integration part is that we're talking to you and saying, "Hmm, there was an eight-year-old in my vision."

Mm-hmm. "Why is that, uh, very important that I saw it?" And then you would go back in your life, and it's like, "Oh, when I was eight, X, Y, and Z happened." Mm-hmm. Okay. And- Dota block ... m- my n- kind of my question related to that is w- how long is, how long is a journey, and do, do people have trouble remembering everything?

Mm. So the, the ceremonies are anywhere from, I'd say on average, you're in the medicine space for about five hours. Sometimes it's longer. Uh, so you're in stillness for about five hours. However, it doesn't feel like that. The, the whole concept of time dissolves away. Yeah. And people are like, "What? I was there on the mat for five hours?

Really? Wow." Um, some people are like, "It felt like 20 minutes or an hour." And so the way that we... 'Cause we prepare people as well. We prepare people to remember the pieces that you're supposed to remember and that you will always remember what you're supposed to remember. And also, we are with you on the inside and the outside, so we are on the inner planes with you.

And so because of that, I can remember almost every single journey that we have facilitated. I'm not sure how, but it just happens, but I can remember pieces of every single client that we've worked with, and I can draw on memories and help people even, like, from five, six years ago. I can help them continue that integration process because most of our clients know that I've got a lot of work to do after this journey.

I've got a lot of integration to ground into place. So our clients, three, four, five years- Five years ... is one journey every three to four or five years, not every month. If that's- Not every weekend ... if that's what you're doing, then the guidance isn't there. There's so much that's being missed, and it'll just confuse you.

You will be puzzled- ... because each journey you're given puzzle pieces for you to bring into your heart, your soul, and to synthesize that data to create. Creator is giving you that information, and you are to create with it, and if there's too many puzzle pieces, you are puzzled. Your brain locks up, and you're like, "What?

Huh? What?" Yeah. Yeah. It actually is- Yeah ... detrimental to the process to get too many. I'm gonna make up for ins- you know, f- for instance, like, so me and my husband, Mitch, okay? "Hey, we got passports. We're coming to see you," and all that. So if we, or does it depend on the couple, or what do you find? For us, if we wanted to work on us f- as a couple, maybe that was our group, I mean, our togetherness intention, do we journey together as a couple?

Do we journey separate then come back together? How does that work? So, uh, first you would fill out the application- ... apply to connect.

Just because we know you here doesn't mean we really know you yet. On their website, there's a big button, y'all, it says apply to connect. It, it pops up like every 20 seconds. Exactly. So apply to connect. All right, so, so, so I did that. Just in case- Yes ... you booked as a person. So you've done that, you've applied, you've booked your call, which is a Zoom call immediately after you've applied, and then we will review your application, see the Zoom call, and we would jump on Zoom like we are now.

And then we would have a discovery call. It is a discoveries call whether you wanna work with us and whether you are a candidate that we wanna work with also. So it's a mutual conversation. It's like an interview. You're interviewing us, we're interviewing you. We're getting a feel of why you, what's the purpose of a journey.

And so you said it's for your husband and yourself. That's great. We would probably do a separate call for each of you, uh, 'cause sometimes couples don't wanna share things about each other until they wanna keep that private. So if you did, both of you got accepted, we'll say, "Well, through the process, you would come to the journey together."

You would be in the same room, but the space would be, there'd be a, a big space between the two of you. We have done married couples or couples before, and the rule of thumb is like, you're on your journey, he's on his. Afterwards, you can come together. But there is sort of no, we'll call it co-mingling during the journey.

It's basically respect the other person, what they're going through, and you may ha- get the heartstrings to come over and you wanna cuddle or support them. We've got you. We're there for you. We are your support team, and then afterwards you come... My hair is standing on end, so I know this feels right. But then you come together, all of us, and then we have a dialogue and conversations- Mm-hmm

and emotions come up, and we all have laughters and tears and it's a beautiful, um, ceremony with couples. We love doing couples, yeah. Mm-hmm. We love doing the ceremony with couples. Yeah, I think so. So I, I'm gonna hop in again because, you know, when you're working with couples, sometimes the woman will say, "Oh..."

Uh, either one of the couple, it really doesn't matter. One person will be like, "I wanna go, and we should do this together," and the other one's sort of going along, right? And that's not a state to be going into this with. You both have to be going in with full intention for your own purpose, not to be there for the other person because they want you to, because that, that is not honoring the medicine, right?

That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. They're not along for the ride. They have to be part of the journey process. They have to know within their heart, and if they say- Mm-hmm ... "Fine, that's what you wanna do, great. I'm here to support you when you come back." Yeah, so if I wanted to do it, and 'cause i- in my particular situation, I, I already know Mitch.

He would totally support what I wanted to do, but he may not wanna do one for himself, but he would 200% be there to support me. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't go, "Oh, honey, you have to ch-..." That ain't gonna happen. So, you know, so, but he'd be like- Good boundaries. Yay ... "Honey, I love you." Yeah, yeah. He was like, "You're not."

But if I wanted to, um, he would be totally like, "Girl, you go. This is safe. That's cool. What can I do to help you?" That's the kinda husband he is Yeah, that's what you like. Yeah. Definitely. And then he may see the shift in you afterwards, and then be like, "Wow, like maybe I wanna possibly go." 'Cause that's what we did.

I went first, and then Gary saw the shift in me and was like, "Maybe- Mm-hmm ... this might be a good idea for me to go in and shift a little bit." Yeah. Yeah. He, he might, that might go- Yeah. "Hmm." But off the cuff he'd be like, "I'm good." You know? "I'm good." That's what we all say. "I'm good." Yeah. Yeah. So I just wanna tell you guys, because I, you know, we're having this conversation, and it sounds like this big plug for you guys' re- you know, journeys.

And, and, and it... i- in one level it is, but w- I wanna say that, that the reason that I'm having them go into this kind of detail is because this process is the same for any shamanic journey. It's true whether you're doing psilocybin, whether you're doing ayahuasca, whether you are doing a straight shamanic journey.

Like, uh, you know, Cathy and I run the retreats, the, The Lumin's Gate style retreats, where we're doing... And, and we do, we do the same two ritual process as well. Uh, which is actually, she did her PhD work on that, and it sh- And, and proved the model, and did the research, and the whole nine yards. So, um, you know, the two ritual process is a powerful process, and having the debrief space and, and the space to really, uh, do the integration work.

It, this is a standard shamanic process when you do it right, okay? And so these guys are doing it using psilocybin. Cathy and I do it doing our retreats. You know, it's just was such a great conversation to have, I thought that this was the best way to, to do it, right? And so, you know, uh, I want you guys to understand the larger picture of what we're talking about here.

Because, you know, we are talking about liminal space, right? We're talking about being... So liminal meaning the, the, the space between, uh, energy and reality, right? And so it's that space in between that you're entering, and it's that nonlinear space, right? And so in that space, you are released from your physical constraints, and all of the roles and, uh, expectations and belief structures that you have that say, "This is who I am and this is how I be in the world," right?

And all of that just gets stripped away, 'cause you're in nonlinear space, and nonlinear space doesn't have any place to hold those things. And so they just go floating off into the ethers, and you just are who you are in spirit. And that has this way of expanding you, and it has this way of shifting your perception of yourself, of the world around you, of other people, of your experience, right?

And it often will, uh, make you aware of things. I did a, I did a journey a few days ago, and I became aware of something in my energy that I had not been aware of up until then, and it had been with me for a long time and really limiting me. And I just pulled it out because I was in nonlinear space. And I'm like, "Oh, that can go."

I didn't have to fight it. I didn't have to anything because there was no structure for it to hold onto, right? Just like, "Oh, you can go now," right? "Don't come back or I'll hurt you," right? That sort of thing, right? Um, so you know, that's the sort of thing that you get. And, and, and unlike In like workshops, right?

You go to personal growth workshops, you go to retreats, you go to things like that. Unlike traditional sort of workshop format things where you come in and you're like, "Oh, I learned this really cool thing about myself, and I met these really cool people," and then there's like this high, and then you crash when you leave, right?

Unlike in those environments, if you do proper integration work, you take it all home with you. It doesn't go away, right? It doesn't disappear because it's been integrated into your beingness, and it, it's taken the stuff out of that nonlinear space and brought it into physical reality for you. So, and these guys are just nodding their heads off over here.

They're like, "Yep, yep, yep, yep." Yeah. And this is why it's gone long. There's a good vision that I can give your listeners about one of our clients. She, we call it, we, you're, it's the Inbetweeners we are, or they're Inbetweeners, and she says, "You know, I was on this train, and it was going up a hill. And, you know, I was just like puttering along, and things were coming up, and then suddenly something fell off the train, and I looked over my shoulder and went, 'Ah!'

And she went, 'Whatever, don't need it.'" And then she said, "Oh, there's something else. Oh, oh, I don't need that." And the train got faster and lighter. She said all her baggage was left off the train, and she was free-flowing moving forward. It was so funny when she told us this story. I was like, "Oh, my God, I could just see it."

So I'll just sh- quickly share from there. It's about remembering back into that state of freedom- Mm-hmm ... of that pure essence of freedom, and that's the, the piece that we teach people is like you can enter into that state again and again every single day of your life because it's an educational, experiential process so that you're given a new tool in your toolbox to carry forward.

And those brilliant aha moments that you had where it's like, "Oh, my goodness, I am one with the universe," great. Touch back into that. Touch, touch that stone. Those are touchstone moments. And then when you're in that moment, in that frequency, I'm covered in goosebumps right now, that's when you can ask that energy, "What am I to create?"

And then let that energy of creation come back with you. Listen, sense into it, feel into it, and then new pieces of data will come back with you and start percolating through your magnetic field, and then- It's like, "Oh my goodness, I have a new idea," and that's part of where it comes from, but it's in congruence with your soul.

So you had a question, Jewel. It came into my mind, Kelle, whenever you were just saying about that, the thing that you plucked out and you wouldn't, didn't know it was there. So is this also kind of a way, or could it come up that stuff from like my past lives that maybe I don't and know it's a limiting thing or trauma or whatever?

And so it's just, it's kind of how we've talked about before, Kelle, all those, uh, the onion layers. W- girl, we, we digging... It's like express train going, getting through those onion layers. Yeah. So it doesn't burn my eyes so much. Absolutely. Yeah. There's, there's this lifetime, past lifetime, future lifetime, and there's a, if you remember, uh, Windows had this, inside of computer land, Windows had this defragmentation process where, like, you're getting rid of the space.

That defragmentation process takes place on a journey when you have someone who's working with the energy at a, a quantum level and can help you to see the pieces that are there for you to acknowledge, and can help you clear out those. But most of the time it's, we have to, it's, it's brought into our awareness out of our blind spot to be with.

Then upon acknowledgement, then we can release it, and that's the, the beautiful process. We sometimes, uh, are, are told that we're like cosmic doulas, where there's energies that are released again and again and again. So there's- Pieces of the puzzle of you that your parents or your parents' parents or your parents' parents went through, and you're carrying that inside of your DNA, inside of your cells.

And so that's part of how we can help you shift that and open up more space in your, in your field so that you can be more lightful. This whole journey is all about enlightenment, and we, we lighten, lighten the load. So it's a process that you can learn to take on every single day of your life. We've talked about anchoring experiences before, right?

And creating neuro-linguistic anchors, right? Uh, ways to, to put things in place in your body and things like that. This is another layer of that. It is, it is a little different, but similar in nature, right? So, um, you know, uh, we're further along in the podcast, so we're talking about more advanced concepts.

This is why we do this, right? But yeah, this stuff is, is highly effective, and it is the stuff that, that Cathy and I work with when we do our retreats as well, um, which is why I'm so conversant in it, because we do this too. We just do it in a different way, right? Um, and so, you know, it's, it's a matter of, um, you know, there are very few people that I have personally run across in the 50 years I have been in this work.

Almost 50. Yeah, not quite but close. Mm. Um, there are very few people who actually grok this work in fullness, okay? Who really get it. I just did a Stranger in a Strange Land reference there, but you know, it's, it's the best word. Grok in fullness, yes. Um, but there are very few people who get this, okay? Uh, you know, there's a lot of people doing watered-down versions of this and not understanding all of the w- all of what they're doing because they learned it rote from someone else who didn't understand it, and learned it rote from someone else and tweaked it.

And so it's even further from the original one because they didn't understand it, so they tweaked it to make it more fun for them or easier for them or whatever. And they didn't... And because they don't understand the concepts behind it, they're moving it further and further away from what it actually is.

And, you know, sometimes there's people out there who, who put together this stuff that was amazing, and you know, I know someone who did this too, where they, they put together amazing stuff and created people who were rock solid practitioners, and then got intimidated because they liked being the guru, and so they watered all their stuff down and offered lighter versions, right?

So, you know, it, it happens, right? And so there's ver- it's very rare to find people who know their stuff in this regard, and it, it's a, because it requires that you have done a certain level of work yourself in order to be able to, to do the work. Um, because you're, you're not only So we've talked about the, the wounded healer, right?

Where if your stuff is being reflected in the client, then you can really mess them up because you're trying to heal yourself instead of heal them, and that's all messed up, and, and things get ugly, and triggers happen, and oh my God, I've heard the stories, and I have to fix it. And yeah. So, you know, very few people are willing to work this hard on themselves Right?

And so you can't do this work unless you're willing to work this hard on yourself. And it is a, uh, it is an ongoing, years-long, deep dive into your own psyche every single day, all the time, no matter what. The universe doesn't let you take a day off. It goes, "Nope, sit your butt down, we're working with you now."

And you're like, "But I'm so tired." And they're like, "Good, because then your resistance will be low, and I've been trying to get you to get this for months." Right? You know? Yeah, yeah. And they're laughing- We hear you. Yeah ... everywhere. You know, they're j- just like, "Yes," right? So this is why I tell people all the time when they, they say, "I wanna be a shaman," I'm like, "I don't think you do.

I... If you can avoid it, don't, because it's so much work." Um, and so you know, it, it, it, it, yeah, it's, it's a thing. And so you know, it's, it's, it's a real process to get to the point where you can facilitate at this level. Mm-hmm. You have to be willing to put your stuff on the shelf wholeheartedly, wholesoledly, 100%.

You are there only for the people that are, that are in your presence to work on themselves. And your stuff is, this can be dealt with later. You have to be able to do that first. Because if your trigger is way the hell up, you're not gonna be able to put it down, right? And so you have to work through enough that you can put it down, and then you have to be willing to put it down.

And then, you know, if you have any int- anything interpersonal, like I've seen this happen a lot, where the person facilitating has a physical, sexual attraction to the person that they're facilitating for. That can be catastrophic because that gets all mixed up in the ick, ick, ick, right? So yeah, all sorts of stuff.

Yeah. We were asked, we were asked- We were asked that, yeah ... on a discovery call once, "Is there anything, any funny business that happens?" Like, absolutely not. Yeah. It, it violates safety in a big way. Safety has to be paramount or nothing can happen. That's right. Absolutely. Professional journey- Yeah ... for a professional experience.

And so, you know, uh, the if you guys have been here since the beginning, you know the entire first year of the podcast is basically, "Here's how not to blow yourself up. Don't do this, don't do that, don't do the other thing," right? You know? So because I start with the safety first. Why? Because you need to learn the safety first, 'cause nothing else happens unless you are feeling safe, um, un- unless you feel held, right?

So in the advanced topics, she's adding another one to the list. So for you advanced practitioners, do not have funny business with your clients. You're gonna blow stuff up. I would hope I wouldn't have to tell them that, but yes. Just saying. Guys, this has been amazing. So tell people how they can find you.

We have a fabulous website called www.thejourneymen, M-E-N, collective, one word, .com. Same handle on Facebook- Awesome ... and Instagram. And how... A- and people would go to that website if they wanted to learn more about doing journeys with you? Correct. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And there's the, the button, as we said before, that pops up every 20, 30 seconds that says apply to connect.

You have to feel that inside, that, that this is, um, uh, you're, you're dedicated to doing the work on self. Mm-hmm. So yeah. Yeah. If you're, if you're like, "I don't know," it's a no. Okay? Let's be clear. If you're at the, "I don't know," it's a no. If you're at the, "Oh, I really want to, but I'm scared," that's a yes. Okay?

So let's be clear about what the differences are, right? Unless you're a, "Hell yes, but I'm terrified," or, "Hell yes, but I'm a hell yes," those two are yeses. Anything else is a no, right? Yeah. So, and, and I, after talking with these guys, I'm like, yeah, they, they will say no to you if you come in in the wrong place, which is exactly what they should do.

Exactly. Yes. It's not like a retreat where you tick the boxes. I wanna do a massage. I wanna do Tai Chi and Reiki and then a mushroom journey. And then I'm gonna go for, uh, scuba diving . You know, it doesn't work that way. Mm-hmm. There's no boxes to tick. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's just awesome. We just help you to learn.

I can only imagine on the Discovery call going, "Well, what time is, is the luau? I'm just saying," you know? Yeah. Well, and, and i- if they turn you down, don't take it personally, okay? It just means you're not ready yet, okay? It's not a judgment of you. It's a judgment of... I- it's a discernment of your readiness, right?

And so, you know, I actually I had a client that, that came in for an interview for my Welcome to the Roo- Woo program, which was my first program in the series, and, and I turned him down, and he was like, "What? What do you mean?" I said, "You're not ready." I said, "These are the things that you need to be ready to come into this program, and I would be irresponsible to have you come in right now because it would not do you good, and it may do you damage, so no."

And he was like, "Well, what do I need to be ready?" And I gave him the list, and he went and did it in three months, which was faster than I thought anybody could do it, and came back, and went like, "I'm ready now." And I'm like, "Yes, you are. Okay. Here we go," right? So, you know, sometimes it's meant as a... And I didn't mean it as a motivation for him.

I was just being honest with him about what I saw and what I would, would and would not allow, um, for his benefit. But, you know, the universe meant it as a, you know, time to stop fucking around and actually get on the, get on the pot and do some stuff, right? Because it, it, we're, we're not doing this anymore, and so we're gonna hit you with something right between the eyes that rec- that will trigger that response in you that will get you moving, right?

I didn't, I didn't know that that's what it was. I was just being clear about my boundaries and, and what was necessary. But Spirit works through us, right? And it will often have us say and do things that are, you know, transformational in people's lives when we're not even actually engaged with them as a client yet.

So, you know, so I just want you guys to keep that in mind as you go through the process. So, um, well, guys, this has been awesome, as I knew it would be, and we need to not have it be months until we talk again because, you know, I love you more now. Um, and and so, um, uh, let's, let's, uh, let me, let me do the, the wrap-up, uh, s- uh, thing here.

Um- Achilleism- Yeah So, um, dive into yourself and discover who you could become. How about that? That works. Yeah. That works. All right. Well, that's all that we have time for this week, folks. Tune in next time when Kelle adds another chapter into your guide to energy, magic, and the spirit world. I'm Jules, here with Kelle and Robert and Gary.

And you have been listening to Spirit Sherpa. So long, everyone. Bye.

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