In this engaging and lively episode, the hosts introduce Nikki Allen, a talented songwriter and author who shares her deeply personal journey through domestic violence and how she used music as a creative outlet during difficult times. Nikki discusses her song 'Loved You, Hate You,' originally released in 2006, which inspired her book addressing domestic violence.

The conversation delves into Nikki's upbringing, including the challenges of being the only Black family in an affluent neighborhood. She also warmly recalls her mother's unwavering support, from fighting for her to play the flute to inspiring her career in music. Nikki opens up about her relationships, both past and present, and shares the heartwarming story of how a one-night stand turned into a long-lasting relationship.

The episode touches on themes of self-love, resilience, and the importance of transparency with loved ones. Listeners get a sneak peek into Nikki's upcoming music project titled 'This Cathedral Is Mine,' focusing on self-love and empowerment. Amidst technical glitches and light-hearted banter, the episode wraps up on an inspiring note, highlighting Nikki's ongoing journey of growth and healing.

• Become a Squad member to get FULL recordings with our guest
• Follow Nikki Allen's Journey.
• Donate to Canine Assistants
• Get your tickets to see Clejan in Athens, Ga!!!
• Request to be on the show. Join our Network, Podmatch

What's up?

Skirts up, squad.

Did you just take my wine?

I did.

It's Samantha and Melissa.

I'm going to actually tell you guys how it is right now.

It was so fun.

We couldn't even make it up.

I'm gonna do it.

I'm gonna wear it in public.

Then she looks at me and she goes, that's what Jesus is for.

We are about normalizing things that are.

Hard to talk about.

I was like deer in headlights.

Skirts out, but keep your pant.

So tell us about your travels.

Because it was three weeks.

Two weeks.

I know you traveled for two weeks, but we didn't record for three.

So in my mind, it's three.

Yeah.

Except we had a cancellation the week before, so we ended up doing, I think, just an intro.

Didn't we?

Or did we not even?

We might have not, but anyways.

Yeah.

So traveling was for two weeks.

Simon and I went to Dominican Republic, and we traveled to multiple different states, cities.

And so.

Oh, that was.

Yeah, because I was just looking at the calendar.

Yeah.

It said on the 29th, Sam is gone, out of the country.

And I think it's because you just got back and you had to, like, reset.

We didn't record.

And then you went again, and then the next week you were gone or just getting back.

So, like.

Like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're about to tell us something funny, though.

Dominican Republic.

Oh, God.

Did I just derail it?

No.

Dominican Republic.

Yes.

So we went there, and I'm sure you guys saw like, how, like, ridiculous that was.

So, like, we got into Dominican Republic.

We did what we always do.

We rented a car, and we got pulled over twice within an hour of having the car and driving through Dominican Republic and has never, ever, ever happened to us before getting pulled over in another country.

And we were so confused because we're like, what are we doing wrong?

Like, we're following the speeding, though.

Oh, I thought he said he was speeding.

They.

When we asked that time, when we asked why we got pulled over, he shot the car driving behind us and showed us that and said you were speeding.

And, like, so obviously that wasn't us.

You did not say that part on the video.

Did I not?

Yeah, well, I think because I was still trying to process, like, what the hell has happened.

But I remember he shot the car behind us and then showed us the gun.

And so I didn't say anything.

But then later I was like, that's not even us.

For all I know, there's, like, an arrow, and you, like, arrow back to Go see, like, the someone previous.

So I just.

I didn't say anything.

And then when I was talking about it, oop, I just cut this out.

And then when I was talking about it to someone else, they're like, no, he shot someone.

That was life.

Yeah.

And so we were talking to a local while we were there and, you know, talking about it, and they were just like, I'm so sorry.

I was like, sorry about what?

I mean, like, happens, like, whatever.

And he was like, no, it's because you're white with the American dollar.

And I was like, it's fine.

Like, as long as they don't put us in jail, I don't care.

Honestly, it's fine.

Like, it's not a big deal.

So that was.

That was interesting.

And then so we spent.

We drove.

I think that happens a lot in a lot of countries.

Tourists get targeted, right?

Yeah.

And.

Yeah.

And they were saying also, like, when you travel to countries like this, the local person we're talking to is like, you also need to know that everything is negotiable because the, you know, the.

The money is so different from where you are to where we are that, like, they're going to tell you something.

Astron.

Like, oh, yeah.

Like, we got gouged.

I didn't know, like, this person.

I literally bought, like, three pieces of, like, crap jewelry just because, like, I just.

I start to feel bad.

Yes.

And I want to support everyone.

They're all trying to, like, make money for their family.

And so then I, like, like, I want to buy something from everyone.

We got bamboozled out of American $400.

That's a lot of money.

That's like the.

Okay, yes, thousands for them, but because.

I don't, like, I don't know the money, Like, I don't process that.

And I didn't even know.

It sounded like.

It didn't sound like a lot in.

In pesos for.

For jewelry.

Yeah.

I mean, it was like this.

Like, it's really weak.

Like, it's already broken of the jewelry I bought.

But it.

Yeah.

I didn't know that we spent $400, like, American money on that when American money, like, that should have.

That would have been like $10, $15, what I bought.

Yeah.

But anyways, that's a whole tangent.

I'll probably cut that.

But.

So we got a car.

We drove from the airport eight hours to our first destination, and then stayed there for a few days and drove four hours to our next destination, and then three hours to our final destination.

That's just how we travel.

We like to see like where we are and try the different cities and cultures and stuff.

What did you do?

What did you, what did you experience in the tr.

In the four hours?

Like, what did you see?

What?

Tell me some culture that you saw.

So of course, like when you drive you see like how vastly different.

I mean, just around like how the US like you travel and you see like the environment's different, the housing's different, different, different.

You know, how they live.

Like you're just seeing an outside.

Yeah, yeah.

And then like when each town that you stay in, you see again, like the different ways of living.

So outside of one of the towns that we stayed in, it was very much so, like kind of what you would think of, of like the third world.

Like, you know, it's just these buildings that are look abandoned, no windows, no like nothing but those.

Like they're actually living in that multi generationally with yeah, a lot of people and it's wild, but that's normal to them.

So we, you know, see that.

And unfortunately we haven't learned Spanish yet.

So one of the bummers is that we can't just sit and have conversations about, you know what?

I'm kind of learning Spanish because, well, you know, I know I speak Portuguese, but I've had some ladies coming and cleaning the shop and they speak panic Spanish.

And so I've been wanting to talk to them.

So I've been kind of trying to work on that.

Yeah, we definitely decided that that is what we're doing.

So we actually go to a lot of those countries.

We do.

And we always say we're going to learn Spanish, we're going to learn Spanish.

But just while we were in Dominican, like, it just really hit.

Like if we knew Spanish we could talk to them about, you know, what's, what's going on and like, you know, tell us because in my mind I'm seeing them.

I'm like, how miserable.

Like during the days it's so hot that you'll just see like the moms and babies just sitting outside on a bucket on the side of the road with the babies.

But then at night it's.

That's when everything comes to life.

Like, it's like the kids are out running and playing.

It's, you know, everyone's like starting to conjugate.

But I think it's because it's so hot in the morning that like, you just, your body cannot handle that.

And so everyone's just sitting like on the side of the road and stuff.

Oh, interesting.

I wonder if that's partially why they have a siesta and take like a longer lunch and nap during the day.

Is because it's better to be out at night.

But I don't know because I couldn't ask, you know, but let's do.

We're.

We're not sponsored by them, but we should be because we're gonna.

Let's do duolingo.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then we want to find a little community, like, of people who are also learning Spanish or already speak Spanish.

I'll do it with you.

To where we go on, like little dates with this little group and, you know, practice speaking or something.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, I'll let you know.

Okay.

I feel like I have a lot to cut now.

Oh, why?

Because you're telling us about your.

It was supposed to be so fast.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

So travel through Dominican.

Our last night.

Our last two nights.

When we do these, like, long travels, we like to go into an all occlusive resort just to, like, have that final, like, we get to relax instead of just traveling every day.

And when we got to the all inclusive resort, we got word that the kids had hand, foot and mouth.

And what's like was, you know, oh, I don't know what to do is.

Because we were supposed to come home for one day, grab the kids, and then go to Utah for a week.

But obviously the two.

Lanyan.

Yeah.

With Simon's family.

But obviously they have hand, foot, and mouth.

Hello.

Okay.

Obviously they have hand, foot and mouth.

Like, that's really contagious.

Like, we shouldn't be going anywhere.

And so everyone was like, really bummed.

And I felt like the bad guy.

So I was like, we're like, we're just not going.

It's not cool.

And then we're going to get home and we're going to get it.

And it's just like, what are we going to do?

Like, it's just not.

It's not what we can do.

And so then I felt bad and, like, was getting a lot of pushback.

And so I was like, you know what?

Let me see if I can get a doctor's appointment.

We'll go to the doctor, we'll see what the doctor says.

And of course I'm like, the doctor's gonna be like, no, you gotta stay home.

But it went the complete opposite.

She was like, no.

Like, these bumps are, like all scabbed over.

The only ones that, like, are really there, like in the back of the mouth, which is only contagious if you Drink after them, and you're not gonna be drinking after anyone on the plane.

And, you know, don't drink after them.

And.

And she was like, I would send them to school tomorrow, like, after.

Yeah.

And I was like, really?

And she goes, yes.

Like, you're fine.

Like, people act like it's, you know, this big, big deal.

And she was like, but it's okay.

Was before.

That was mess.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.

Because I've.

I've had to deal with it with kids and me.

Like, it's just.

It's so contagious.

It's so bad.

Oh, yeah, I believe it.

Like, I was, you know, I'm kind of like a germ freak, and so I was, like, dreading coming home, so I was like, I don't.

I really don't want it.

I really don't feel like.

It was perfect that you got to go on vacation and the kids got to get their one bad, contagious sickness of the year while you were at home.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, we went to Utah.

No one else got it.

It didn't spread.

I still don't have it.

And obviously I would have had it by now.

So it all worked out well.

Everyone's healthy now.

We're back home.

And then I was trying to think of a fail.

And honestly, the first fail that came to my mind was when Simon and I were in Dominican Republic.

The first two, three days, we did, like, we took lots of photos.

We did, you know, touristy things, and, you know, we're documenting it.

And then towards the end of the trip, we.

I didn't take any photos.

I didn't take any videos.

I just kind of stopped.

But it's because we started leaving our phones in the.

In the room, and then we'd go out to dinner and stuff.

And my fail was honestly going to be that.

My favorite part, I think, on.

On the trip was that we went.

We left our phones in the room, and then we walked down the street until a restaurant kind of, you know, stood out to us, which, again, all the restaurants are outside, and all the restaurants kind of look the same, but, like, you know, serve different foods.

And so one stood out.

We went and sat down.

The town that we are in isn't very intermixed with English.

And so, of course, this place that we picked doesn't have, like, a menu that helps you, like, read it, you know, because it was only in Spanish, English, and.

And we didn't bring our phones.

And so I was like, I guess we're just gonna Pick something off the menu.

And so Simon's, of course, like, picking, like, the one, you know, one off words that he can pick.

He goes, that's what I'm eating.

I'm eating cassada.

Okay, okay.

And then I was.

Or ask the waiter, like, what is it for?

I didn't speak English.

So again, we didn't speak.

We only.

We don't speak Spanish.

And so again, we couldn't read the menu and we couldn't communicate with the server.

And so at first we were like, well, shit, next time, I don't know what to do.

And you know what?

I literally stared at the men and I picked.

I picked a whole.

A whole entree of food that I could not pick a single word out of.

And I was like, God, for all I know, I'm about to be served, like, a plate of intestines.

Right.

And what lingua.

The food that came.

Right.

That literally what I was talking like, please not.

But no, what I ended up ordering was this shrimp in a garlic sauce with a side of, like, mashed plantains that was like, it tastes, like, yummy.

Yeah.

I was like, yeah, turned out good.

And I was like, man, that was so cool.

Like, it just crossed them off the menu.

And it was delicious, luckily.

But I think my actual fail is.

Last week, we were talking about in our intro how I had a big test coming up and how it would be really dumb if I failed it because it's open book and I failed it.

I feel like that's my fail for being like, it's open book.

You can't fail.

I feel awful for saying that.

No, I'm very sorry.

No.

Because.

Right.

I had no expect.

I did.

I went into that test with not a single worry about failing.

And honestly, all the questions were so, like, they made sense to me that I. I mean, I had, like, two and a half hours to take it, and I did it in, like, 35 minutes.

Oh, yeah.

And then when it shows you which ones you got wrong.

Honestly, I got wrong the ones that were like, pick all that apply, and then maybe I picked two instead of three.

That all, you know, that.

That applied or something tricky.

Yeah.

So got you.

You know, I could have taken longer.

I could have actually gone through and.

Looked up each one of them in the book.

Yeah.

Just in case.

But I mean, honestly, I feel like with the ones that I got wrong, like, I didn't get them wrong.

I like, you know, selected.

Right, right, right.

You just.

Not enough of them didn't.

Yeah.

You just need to have a More rounded, more information.

Yeah.

So I failed my test, but I'm sorry.

No, it's fine.

It got me into going and doing, like, the minor test, which are, like, learning about and doing, like, little things on actual different subjects that you can work on clients with, and that has, like, reignited, like, the interest.

And now I'm excited to retake the test after doing these.

Cause, like, it's cool.

Yeah.

I don't know if I think we were talking about it earlier and maybe.

So cut this if you're leaving that.

But what was really interesting is you said something about, like.

Oh, yeah.

So then the minor test, you kind of have to know, like, there's one about addiction and one about, like, weight loss and one about, I don't know, mental health, all these things.

But you're like.

But then you have to go back in and learn the why.

Like, why is this important?

And it's, like, reigniting your excitement, which I thought was really cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because getting, like, it's kind of like in school.

Like, when you're in school and you have to.

You have to sit there through math that you're never going to use again and, you know, science that you're probably never gonna really use again.

Like, it's just blah.

And, you know, they're like, why are we doing that?

There's not really a while.

Or then you have to.

And so it's kind of like that, like, with this kind of school, it's like, there's a lot of background stuff, and it's.

You want to be like, why do I have to learn that?

But then obviously you need to get the whole.

Applicable.

Yeah.

And then once you get the, like into specific pieces, it's like, that's the why.

Because now I know, like, the ins and outs of that topic.

And it'll help.

Yeah.

With other people.

So.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

I love it.

You had a very full and busy three weeks.

Yeah.

That was a lot of talking.

Now I might lose my voice.

I'm just kidding.

Well, go rest up.

Did you.

I was gonna share something just dumb that happened.

I don't know if it's a fail or a success or anything, except for that this happened to me and I forgot about it.

But I wrote it down.

So that's the success.

It is the success.

I was so proud of you.

Yeah, that's right.

So that's a success.

Because I remember I was like.

When that happened, I was like, I got to tell.

I got to tell the people on the pod this.

So Like, I was at the Duns because I was cleaning out the.

The shop.

Oh, that's right.

You mentioned that you had to do that.

Yeah, because, well, after the divorce, like, everything came here and just got piled in the back.

And it's like I had to go through a bunch of crap.

And so I made a dump.

I made two dump runs, actually, and I'm going to make one more.

But the point is, I went to the dump.

They.

When you get there, it's like a big warehouse.

It's not a normal dump that I'm used to.

It was like a warehouse that you just, like, back your truck into.

You throw everything on the ground, and then a bulldozer comes and takes it and pushes it wherever it goes.

So before you back in, though, they want you to park in, like, a slot and wait.

And the slots are numbered one through five.

And so they're like, go park in number one.

And I was like, okay.

And then the guy.

Then there's a guy that comes up to you, and he's like, telling me, like, to back my truck up to number five.

And I don't know what that means because there's no, like, slot numbers behind me in the warehouse.

And so I'm like, where do you want me to back up to?

I was just like, can you be a little more clear?

And he goes, do you even know how to back this up?

This thing up?

Because it was a truck and I'm a girl and he was trying to flirt with me.

And you know how those guys that are just, like, super, like.

How can I say this?

Not mean, like.

Eric, he's just trashy.

Okay?

He's trashy.

I'm just going to say it.

Mean, like, and.

But trashy by, like, appearance?

Or like, trashy by, like, his.

The way he talks to you.

The way his appearance.

Yes.

Like, uneducated and ignorant and doesn't seem redneck.

Yes, we are.

I just didn't want to say it.

But you know what?

There's plenty of rednecks who.

Well, anyway, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter.

He was just very not.

I didn't like him at all.

Joe type.

No.

And then he came up to me and goes, do you even know how to drive this thing, little lady?

Kind of like that.

And I was just.

He didn't say little lady, but it was just like that.

Like that.

And I was like.

I ignored him.

I didn't even answer because I don't owe him any answers.

And of course I can drive it.

I'M in the car.

And he goes.

I said, where do you want me to back up to?

And he's just like, well, do you even know how to back it up?

And I said, where am I backing up to?

And he's like, I'll just show you.

And he starts walking next to the car while my window's down.

And then he's, like, pretending that I'm going to run over him.

And he.

He.

I was like, oh, my gosh.

I yelled at him.

And I said, you are so annoying.

Because he wouldn't just tell me where to go.

He's like, walking next to my car.

As it's moving and being like, a.

Little more this way, a little more this way.

Oh, you ran over me.

And I'm just like.

So I yelled like, oh, my gosh, you are.

So he goes, what did I do?

And I was like, just tell me where to go.

And he's like, okay.

So he, like, points me where to go.

And then I guess the success out of all that is he helped me unload the truck when that's not their job.

He was like, oh, I don't.

I don't fucked up bad.

Yeah.

And then I was like.

And he's like, well, what?

And he asked me again, well, what did I do?

I was like, you were just like, you wouldn't just tell me where to go.

And I was.

Acted like I didn't know how to.

Frustrated.

You're acting like I didn't know how to do anything.

He's like, oh.

And so I guess, like, in the end, maybe it was good because, like, I could tell him.

Yeah, he did give you the opportunity to, like.

Yeah.

Because usually people will be like, what a.

And then, like, walk off.

You know what?

You're right.

So I take back the part about.

Because I said he was uneducated, and he seemed like he didn't want to be educated.

I take it back.

He did let me say how I felt.

And he.

And he kind of listened when he could have been mad at me for yelling at him.

But, yeah, I actually think that's really cool because, yeah, I'm not proud that.

I, like, yelled at him.

It was funny.

And he was like, he did laugh.

And then he goes, what did I do?

Because he knew he was being annoying.

He knew it.

It's like those people who are, like, just picking on the girl trying to get him.

And so, yeah, he helped me unload the truck, and then he, like, wouldn't stop talking to me, and he wanted to say hi To Oliver.

And.

And so, like, in the end, it was like, I just wanted to get out of there, but at the same time, he changed its tune anyway.

Yeah, to me, I guess so.

And I guess I have to kind of take it back and be like, okay, he wasn't completely bad in the end.

He was just doesn't know how to talk to girls, I guess.

I mean, would you have changed since he did let you, like, explain?

Would you have changed how you handled it or, like.

Yeah, probably that was the way.

Well, maybe for him, that was the way because he was being so, like.

Ignoring.

He was being over the top about, like, trying to be funny, but it wasn't funny.

Like, it wasn't funny.

So I think I probably would have done it.

I didn't yell at him, but I just, like, said it very loud and exasperated, like, oh, my gosh, you are so annoying.

And I just.

I put my phone on the break and said that.

And he just goes, I've never seen.

You get to that point.

You haven't?

I think I. Yeah, I was at that point.

That is so funny.

I love it.

Yeah.

So anyway, that was a long story, and it did not need me to be that long.

No.

But it happened.

Yeah.

No, I think it's funny.

Yeah.

We all get to that point.

Like, we're.

We're in a situation and sometimes it just slips.

Like, oh, my God.

And just to hug.

Get out of the way, like, Jesus Christ.

Like.

Yeah, I think we all get to that point at some point.

So, yeah, you know, I. I guess, you know, the fail is, is that we let situations and people get us to those points, you know, but then at the same time, the, you know, when is that you were given the opportunity to explain him.

Yeah, exactly.

And, yeah.

And then I think I was able to be like, thank you so much for helping me, because I also felt bad for yelling at him.

I say yelling, but it's in quotes.

Yeah.

So I.

In the end, like, I think we left it fine, but I was like, God, I hope he's not there tomorrow when I take that run.

And he wasn't.

That's funny.

Well, but glad it worked.

Yeah.

All right, so what we got today, we're.

Today we have Nikki joining us.

She was a joy to talk to.

And I just.

Honestly, what's so funny is what I kept thinking about and thinking about is, like, man, I wish I could meet her mom.

Because, like, listening to her talk to her, like, about her mom and.

Yeah, that really.

I was like, I just want to Know your mom.

Yeah, I remember that resonating with you.

She was just.

And I was thinking about her too, how she also seems like a good mom.

I can't remember what it is.

I have to re.

Listen to the episode, and I will.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She's very open and has, like.

That's right.

Yeah.

The very.

I remember thinking it's like, just like generational trauma.

Generational positivity.

Yeah.

And I appreciate her openness about, you know, really just point blank, like, racism that she grew up, that her mom kind of shielded her from.

And, you know, she had to learn later in life, like, oh, that's what that was.

And.

And I just think that that was also, like, really vulnerable and.

Yeah.

You know, but.

And that's gonna be, like, a really hard and personal thing for a parent to have to, like, do.

Like, how.

How much do I let my kid in on knowing what's happening in the world?

Do I let them know, like, yeah, they're being looked at a different.

In a different way, or do I let them just.

They just changed their mind?

You know, that's kind of like the sense that I was getting is that, like, her mom kind of turned it into, like a.

They just changed their mind about the sleepover.

No big deal.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, she.

So she went, like, a totally different route.

And I think some parents.

I remember Melissa Walker saying something to me once, and I thought it was quite pivotal.

Pivotal, because I'm obviously repeating it again.

But she said, why do I have to be the one to tear my kid down?

The world's gonna do it for him.

And I was like, you're right, because it was about something really stupid.

And I was like, why aren't you telling this child, like, this thing about them?

She's like, no, no.

And I was like, God, you're so right.

And so I saw that in Nikki and her experience with her mom.

Like, her mom's like, she's gonna find out soon enough.

Let's let her be a child and enjoy her friends and her sleepovers without knowing that racism was involved.

Yeah.

And.

And I think she makes a comment about it, too, in the recording.

But, you know, kind of goes into it also teaches it breaks that cycle of hate.

Because could you have been angry and made it very known to your children that they dislike you in.

You know, what am I trying to, like, spread that hate onto that intensity, onto the child, but instead being able to turn it into, like, not making it.

Not.

Not making it a big deal.

Right.

Because it's still A big deal.

It was still a big deal, but.

She didn't want it to be about race for her at that moment in her life.

And I think that's like, we were kind of saying, like, maybe that's not the right call for all parents and stuff.

But it was.

It clearly was the right thing for Nikki.

And it was.

It was beautiful the way it was done.

And she's.

And you'll hear about it.

Grown, a beautiful life with wonderful kids.

And, yeah, she was just a really beautiful soul to talk to.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

So enjoy.

All right, so today we have with us Nikki Allen.

And Nikki is a songwriter, and she has recently written a book as well.

She wrote a book off of her song Love you, Hate you, which is a story about her life through domestic violence.

So thank you for joining us, Nikki.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah.

And, you know, you guys are going to be listening to this in October.

And as you know, October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month.

So we thought that this would just be the best conversation to hear how she used music.

How you.

Nikki.

I'm sorry.

I was talking to the audience, used, you know, music and just these different creative outlets to handle what she went through.

So thank you for wanting to share that with us.

Absolutely.

So I actually.

I listened to your song Love youe Hated you'd.

And it really brought me back.

Like, I felt like I was listening to, like, my favorite 90s R B.

I feel so dumb because I actually didn't go listen.

I didn't realize that.

I just didn't listen to it.

I didn't realize who.

We were talking today.

And I messed up big time.

So nippy.

I apologize.

No worries.

Look, it's out there, so it's not like you'll never get a chance to hear it.

I'll be listening to it this afternoon.

Yeah.

How long has that song been out?

When did you start?

That came out.

Oh, wow.

How many albums do you have?

One full album and a couple singles that charted on itunes.

What are the singles that, like, you're most proud of that you love?

I. I love both of my singles.

Bartender was.

Is the latest one.

I'm actually working on some new music.

But Bartender is the latest that's out there, and I really love that.

But the other one is I did a cover of My Favorite Things.

Oh, you did?

Oh, I heard that.

I love it.

Heard that.

Yes.

Because I need Yourself.

Yes.

Thank you.

Because.

Yes.

Because, Sam, you Told me about her.

My dog just got.

Saw how excited I got him running over.

Yeah.

When Sam, you first told me about Nikki was like, you must have talked to her a while back.

Yeah.

And I went and looked her up.

Yeah.

And so I bet you I heard more than just that.

But that one I kept on repeat for, like, a week.

Yeah, really?

Really.

That one was.

I'll just say this.

The producer and I had, at one point, had a relationship.

He's a guy that I can always call on, that he understands me musically.

So I said, hey, I want to.

I want to redo my favorite things.

And he said, sing a little bit of it into the phone.

So I sang a little bit, and he orchestrated that whole thing, and then I just redid the.

Arranged the vocals like that, and it was so magical.

But it just.

To me, it was like our friendship, our relationship, you know, it just really.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's one of my favorites, though.

Oh, I want to look that one up.

I didn't hear that one.

Yeah, I love it.

Do you.

Do you like musicals, Nikki?

Did they have, like, a big impact on your life?

Musicals just for you to choose that song?

Music.

I just love the music.

It's like, I just embody music in all kinds.

It's like, it doesn't matter what kind.

You'd be.

If you heard my playlist, you'd be like, is she okay?

Because, like, total, like, rock.

And then there's.

Oh, and then there's orchestral, and then there's.

And then there's smooth jazz, and then there's a whole ton of R B.

But it's.

It's all over the place, and I'm like, who in on all of it?

Yeah.

You love it.

Yeah.

So musicals.

I all love it.

It just.

Anything with music, I'm in if it's good.

Were you into theater or music or anything in school?

Yeah, I was.

Funny story.

I wanted to play the flute when, you know, fourth grade, I think, is when you get to pick your instruments and all of that.

And I'll give you a little backstory.

I lived in an affluent neighborhood, but we were the only black family there, so they tried to sabotage us in every way possible.

Yeah, we've had crosses burned put on our house the whole night.

I've been through a lot.

Oh, gosh.

But even the administrators were really, really just, like, against me.

I got in trouble one time.

I wasn't even at school.

But anyway.

Oh, my gosh.

True story.

I wanted to play the flute, and it was just because I wanted to do it.

You can't do it.

So they had everybody blowing into the mouthpieces and all of that.

And I felt like I blew in the flute mouthpiece.

Okay.

But the guy was like, no, you didn't.

So I went home and told my gosh.

And she goes, well, what are you going to play?

I said, the clarinet.

I mean, you played the clarinet.

She was like, you're going to go back to that school and you're going to tell them and I'm going to write you a note.

You're going to play the flute.

Because damn it, if you want to play the flute, you play the flute.

So what a good mom.

Well, my mom was all about that, let me tell you.

And so I went back and they were like, you're not playing the flute.

But I ended up playing the flute.

Good.

Playing first chair all the way through high school.

That's amazing.

Did they eat their words?

Please tell me, please tell me they ate their words.

And somebody came back to you and said sorry, no.

And actually in seventh or eighth grade, somebody stole my flute.

And when I got it back, all the keys were pulled back.

But it didn't work out for them because they didn't know my mom had bought me two flutes.

And so I had.

So they.

It.

It didn't work.

But no one has ever apologize.

And it's so interesting because a lot of these, my friends from school from that era, we're all Facebook friends and no one.

And we're really friends like you just kind of grow up and grow out.

But we never talked about the real what happened.

Yeah, what happened back then?

Because there was one girl, we were having our house built and that was the other problem.

We were this black family, the only ones having their house actually built from the ground up.

So that's problematic.

But you know, while it was being built, I was going to school in that neighborhood and I would have to wait for my mom in this half built house.

So met a friend that said I could come over.

You know, her mom and my mom talked and they were like, no, she shouldn't stay in that house by herself till you get off work.

She'll come have dinner with us and he pick her up from here.

So after school, I'm sorry, we're talking about something totally different, but I just.

Want to tell you this, you're fine.

This is not different.

It's you.

And so I went to the girl's house and we're playing dolls.

My back was to her bedroom door and her mom comes in I didn't meet her mom.

Okay.

So her and my mom had just talked.

So we're playing dolls whenever mom comes in, and she goes, michelle goes, mom, this is Nicole.

And I turned around, and she was like, michelle, come here right now.

And she was gone for a long time.

And then she came back just.

Just.

Just eerily crying.

She said, you have to go.

And I'm like, why?

Our moms talk.

Like, I'm so.

Just like, not about that.

And she's like, you have to go.

You have to go.

You have to go.

What I love about my mom is throughout the years, I never really understood why I had to go, because she never said, you know, never made it about a racial thing.

And those people moved literally about a week later.

Whoa.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So your mom never kind of said, hey, this is what was going on.

They were being fine.

No, we never had.

And I think it was because she didn't want me to get caught up in a racism situation.

You know what I mean?

Like, it's gonna come.

People do, the black people and leave, you know, it was never that.

It was just ignorance on their part.

Totally.

And, you know, and so I. I really.

I missed my mom so much.

She passed away, 21.

She got me to California to make sure I pursued my career, and she died 11 months later.

I am so sorry.

Thank you.

But she was amazing.

She was really amazing.

She sounds amazing.

Oh, yeah.

If you see this poster right here.

Yeah.

Your dreams take flight.

She gave this to me in, like, sixth grade.

Oh, my gosh.

I love that.

This room is my spiritual room.

And I have all kinds of things that she's given me.

You know, unicorns over there.

And then she actually wrote something for me.

My eighth grade graduation.

But the end, it says, you are the love of my life.

Were you an only child?

You could say that.

My brother's 10 years older than me, and he was through a previous marriage that my mom had.

Okay, okay.

So we didn't necessarily grow up together because he went away to boarding school while I was growing up.

Okay, okay.

Wow.

Your mom sounds like she is.

So did you always have, like, a.

A passion for music, even when you were young?

It started with the flute.

Or before.

Before my dad would come home and go in the basement and crank up Marvin Gaye, Aretha Franklin, Diana, and the house would vibrate with music.

So it wasn't just your mom then.

You really had, like, from both sides.

That support and goosebumps.

That sounds amazing.

Yeah.

And I would go down in the basement and just Sit there with him.

And it was just.

And so I fell in love with Diana Ross.

And that is.

She was the reason why I was like, I want to sing.

I want to sound like her.

I want to be like her.

So I know what you're talking about, because I. I'm sure you've probably done it, Sam, but I feel like everyone, if they've never done it, should have the experience of just lying down in a room, whether they're alone or with somebody else, being quiet and just letting the music just fill the room, like, actually take up space and, like, come into your body and move.

You know what I mean?

Like, it's something so real and I.

Really embody music, you know?

Yes.

So.

Wow, that's.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

So music has always been, you know, this thing for me.

And just side note, I trained for the Olympics as a gymnast.

Oh, that's right.

I forgot you told me that.

Yeah, but I didn't want to be a gymnast.

I wanted to be a singer.

Okay.

Okay.

I would take my dad off, but.

You were good enough to go to the tryouts because don't you, like, have to meet, like, certain criteria before you can even try out?

Oh, wow.

Wow.

Junior Olympics before that.

And can I ask, where did you grow up?

Like, what?

In Illinois.

Illinois.

Okay, explained.

Here's some of my things over here.

But I trained with this company called Ike Turner, and they actually brought gymnastics to the United States.

Really?

Well.

And they were prejudiced, too.

They didn't want me there either.

Really?

Yes.

I lived in the city of Chicago.

They were in the city of Chicago.

And my mom took me there because she said I was bouncing off the walls and flipping all over the place.

So she was like, I want to get you in a class.

And she walked in and they were like, oh, no, no room.

But everybody else was getting in.

So then we had our house built in the suburbs, and they moved to the suburbs kind of around the time we did.

So this time my mom called and.

Yeah, he called and was like, hey, you know, do you have room?

They were like, of course we do.

Bring her in.

So they were very shocked when I walked in.

But that's.

Your mom is.

Yeah, she's assistant.

She's like, no, you're not going to take less and you shouldn't.

Never, ever, ever.

I have the biggest, craziest dreams because this is what I heard in my house almost every day.

You can do anything you want to do as long as you put your mind to it and can't Was not allowed in my vocabulary.

I love it.

I love it.

I love your mom.

I love my mama, too.

Oh, wow.

And see, picture Mama.

Let's see.

Yeah, this is me and her.

I don't know.

We can't see anything.

They're just little.

Yeah, I see.

I see it.

Oh, that's so sweet.

My ribbons and stuff from gymnastics.

Wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

So interesting life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you.

So I know your mom, like, got you to.

Where did what you said?

California.

California.

Okay.

So I'm hearing you played, like, first chair.

You were, like, all orchestrated, like, orchestral style, I'm guessing.

Yeah.

Through high school.

Yeah.

When was your, like, first experience?

When you're like, I'm gonna try to put myself out there for the world.

Like, when she wrote an album.

I'm about to pick up my computer and walk you through my room, because.

Let's do it.

Okay.

Because I have so high school, I was very terribly shy, but I knew I wanted to sing.

And so my freshman year in high school, I saw this group perform, and I was like, they sounded so good.

They sounded like the record.

And I'm like, I want to do this.

So my sophomore year, I was like, I'm going to get in this talent show.

And my prayer to God was, if I lose, I will never pursue this ever again.

If I win, I'm going to take this as a sign to go.

And I did a duet because I was too scared to do it by myself.

Sometimes we need that.

Right?

That was my duet.

Right, exactly.

So I did this duet.

We won first place.

And so I was like, okay, we're on.

What is you seeing this?

So the Debarges were my favorite group, and so I did a song that they did back then.

Okay.

And what's interesting is that they've become.

It's so funny, because a lot of these things, people that I was like, I want to be around and part of, have been literally in my life for real.

Oh, that's awesome.

Did you start.

When you started writing your songs and getting ready to do your first record, what was going on in your life was what was going on with your mom and moving, like, the most predominant thing going on in your life or had you already experienced, you know, what caused you to write, Loved you, hated you.

So my mom had.

Like I said, my mom had passed 11 months after I moved out here, which is how I want to kind of say.

I got into this abusive relationship because I was.

I met this guy.

I didn't have any family out here.

I just lost My mom dad was, because I wasn't the gymnast or accountant, you know, he wasn't dealing with me.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So you were in a really vulnerable state.

Very vulnerable.

And here comes this guy in this news place I'm in, you know, and this, this professor told me, I, I, I hit the charm harm perfectly.

So he was very charming, right?

And, and I, I, I for this guy, I won't say he's had an abusive personality.

Like, he's just volatile all the time.

But he didn't know how to manage his anger or frustrations when he got mad.

And so.

But truth be told, I never thought I was a songwriter.

All the music that was out and still out is always about shaking your ass and showing me this and bend over this way and do that.

And that's really not me.

I'm all about the love and the.

Possibility behind you on the wall.

I love it.

I'm a Capricorn.

I mean, I'm a globe.

Right.

Version of a unicorn to me.

Okay.

I'm all about love.

And let's know.

So this guy, the producer, he was like, well, why don't you write something and so it can give me an idea and then I'll produce something.

And so I wrote it.

And he goes, oh, I didn't know you were a songwriter.

I'm like, I'm not.

So that's really, you know, everybody's like, oh, my God, how many you What?

What?

I didn't know songwriter.

And I'm like.

And I didn't know either wrote that.

I was like, oh.

So that's kind of how the songwriting thing came in.

And they basically had to be like, no, honey, you are.

The madam, the manager that I had at the time.

Somebody had given me a track, and I was sitting at his kitchen table while his wife was cooking dinner, and I wrote and I was like, I'm like, I'm done.

He was like, you wrote that in like five minutes.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

I go, I told you I'm not a songwriter.

He was like, nikki, did you hear this?

This is amazing.

You are a songwriter.

It took a long time for me to accept that I was a songwriter.

But fast forward to after I kind of got out of that relationship and I started writing because I guess I'm a songwriter.

I wrote, loved you, hated you about that relationship.

I don't know if I had question.

I just went all the way around the world.

But yeah.

Oh, no, we.

That's what we're here for.

You totally did.

She's like, what were you doing?

And you.

You let us know.

That's awesome.

So who.

So, okay.

Wow, this is so much.

So have you ever played that song for this person?

Does that person know that it's about that relationship?

I mean, if he was smart enough and listening to the lyrics, he would know if he read the.

It's funny because I don't have any contact with him, but we are Facebook friends and.

Yeah.

And his.

His posts don't pop up in my feed ever.

The moment I released this book, his post started popping up in my feeds out of the blue.

Right.

Whoa.

I guess vice versa because he liked the book.

You know, he did a thumbs up like, you dummy.

Until you want to thumbs up that.

But okay.

Oh my God, that's.

And did you just recently get it?

The book?

That's what I was about to ask.

Yeah, yeah, Jim.

It was released.

So I wrote the song and the song.

Why say it sounds it 90s?

I think I wrote it like towards the end of the 90s.

And then that's why I think it's the last song on the album.

Because I was like, let's just throw it on there.

Oh, wow.

It's always the last song thrown on an album that like.

Yeah.

So I threw it on there and then I really like the song and I really like.

I don't know, I just liked how it was about me, really.

And I was like, I could see this as a story, but I wanted to add, of course, because I like unicorns.

The love story at the end, the book actually is not all about domestic violence.

It's about this woman having to.

It's a fictional story.

It is fictional.

Okay.

But it's about.

Yeah, it's loosely based on what I've been through.

Got it.

But the end is just, you know, I want people understand, you get to choose.

And it's all about self love.

I forgot that you had mentioned that, that you wanted to write something and you did.

That really, really, really led you to fall in love with the guy as well.

So that you could see how slight and just how small those, you know, final steps are to where you're like, holy smokes, what am I in?

And what just happened?

So that's really cool.

And I did not get a chance to read it, but I really want to because I think that that's a great idea.

Like a lot of people who haven't been into that kind of situation.

You know, I think Nikki, we talked about this.

Your friends will be like, oh, well then just leave if it's not that bad.

And then after so many times, then they just kind of drop you and you're alone, and they just don't understand.

And I love going back to Diddy and Cassie because she was.

You know, that was such a big story in media, and everybody's like, why didn't she just leave?

She had so many times to leave.

She left and she went back.

And it's like, I think, you know, I wrote this story way before their situation became public, but it addresses why we stay.

There's an actual line in there to somebody that she explains why she stays.

It's just like, that easy, you know, it's not.

You know, and when you.

Like, for me, my mom was my anchor.

I lost that.

I'm holding on to something else to try to get me through.

But the soul surgery, what I.

Which is what I like to call it, is trying to understand why am I holding on to this when I'm really not getting anything out of it.

Well, it's interesting you say that you're holding on to that, because I feel like that's what it is.

It's like, even though you're in this volatile relationship and you're having, like, these really difficult, hard times, you're still really.

Good times mixed in.

That's what I'm about to say.

You're holding on to all of the amazing stuff that you have also been through with that person.

Correct.

Because let me tell you, it hasn't happened since I came home one Valentine's Day.

We didn't live together.

He had a key to my apartment, though.

And when I opened the door, walked down the hallway, turned on the lights to my bedroom full of flowers, balloons, and I had rose petals leading up to the bedroom, you know, So I still haven't had that since.

But, I mean, he would do things like that.

Brand gestures.

Yeah.

And the cards.

He'd write these, oh, most romantic cards about how much I was the best thing ever.

That's what you hold on to.

Because this must be just temporary.

I'll deal with it.

It's not all the time.

It's.

I can handle it.

Part of the roller coaster.

Part of the roller coaster, you know?

And also, you kind of have probably.

Well, I.

In my mind, in the back of my mind, I've had moments where, like, where I've gone through something like that with somebody into my past.

It was like.

I was thinking, when you said temporary, that was what hit me, because it's like you kind of think, well, they're just having A hard time.

We're going to get over this.

It's not like we just have to settle in.

We haven't really hit our easy years yet.

You know what I mean?

As if.

As if they're not showing you who they are.

Right.

And.

Right.

And let's.

Let's.

Let's keep it real and 100%.

And then if the lovemaking is great, then that's another situation.

Deal with, like, especially if you haven't, like, gotten to be sexually experienced yet.

You think it.

Does it get better?

Am I going to miss out?

Right.

Because it gets.

And you don't want to.

I 100% understand that.

Oh, yeah.

I had all those things going against.

How are you able?

So I heard.

Sorry.

Is it okay if I ask a quick question?

Sam, I. I didn't interrupt you.

She had said.

You had said the word soul surgery is what it took, like, to kind of, like, reframe your, like, mindset to be able to get strong enough to get out.

Can you kind of, like, walk us through, like, what did it take?

What did you do to, like, open your eyes one day?

Or was it slow or did it happen overnight or how are still happening?

I don't think salt, now that I'm.

Older, I liked it.

I don't think it ever ends because, okay, grow.

You find new things.

You find new quirks.

You.

You.

You have different experiences.

Right, Right.

And then you.

Yeah, why am I responding like this?

And then you gotta go right back in.

And it's really just introspect, you know, it's like, why am I.

Let me.

Let me go.

Talk to me about this, you know?

Right.

Melissa, this is exactly you, like.

And I have a conference with myself because sometimes, you know.

Right, Sam, you're right.

Well, and I only say that.

I mean, of course, like, I have had those moments, too.

Like, obviously, I've.

I've transformed into a whole new person.

This, you know, last couple of years.

But, Melissa, you've openly talked about these situations through the end of last season where you were like, man, this really triggered me.

And this happened, and I responded in this way.

And then I had to, like, pull myself away and be like, why did I do that?

And then, you know, oh, every time.

You think you've gotten over something, it's something else to show you.

You know that part you got where you left.

You're so right.

It's like an onion.

Like, you take a layer away.

Well, there's still another one.

Yep.

You take that layer away, then you elevate.

But Elevation leads you to more stuff that now, oh, my gosh, I gotta deal with this.

Okay, we're good.

Okay.

You know, it's like it's.

You just never ending cycle, but it's all good because at least hopefully you get to a point where you go.

You can check it and clock it and go, okay, let's see what's happening.

Let me go deal with this really quick.

Or not quick.

Because there have been some things, it's like, why am I not getting that for real?

But I love how you said you elevate.

Because it's true.

If you're gonna grow, well, then you're going to be at a whole other place and you're going to be seeing the same things that you already dealt with in a very different light and way.

So they can still come back to you.

Wow.

I just.

I literally got chills.

Yeah.

And I just kind of like, see, like, I have this, like, image in my head and I don't know why, but, like, as you're like, talking like in my head, I see like, okay, we've made it to this level and then.

Oh, okay.

We gotta, you know, figure a way up these stairs and.

Okay.

Around the next level.

And then it's like, by the end of your life, like, I would hope that you could look down the staircase and see, like, all of these things that you addressed here and, like, raised yourself up on y. I feel like.

Once you've gotten to that level, you know, where you don't need to clock anything or fix anything or check anything, you're probably out of here.

Right.

You did everything that you were meant to do.

Exactly.

I can definitely.

Oh, no, I just.

In the ch.

I just don't think it.

It really ends.

I don't either.

But yeah.

Yeah, I definitely can look back to myself 20 years ago and see a hundred percent completely different person.

Totally different.

And if I wasn't a different person, I'd be worried.

Correct.

But, you know, I'm a different person than I was three months ago.

And you're right.

It's crazy because, I mean, very different.

You're very different.

I started implementing this thing called boundaries.

What.

What are boundaries?

Tell us about that.

This little secret called boundary.

And you know, I just.

I. I've always had boundaries, but my walls are always kind of like, that's like, I need a steel wall for my children too, because, you know, I always been.

We do that for our kids.

Yeah.

Enough.

Now it's like, no.

How old are.

How many children do you have?

How old are they?

2.

My daughter's 25 and my boy is 18.

Oh, so they're like at the point where it's like there's.

You're still their mom, of course, but you can also be more of a friend too now, huh?

Correct.

And my daughter is probably my best friend.

She.

She's moved out.

She moved out.

She.

I'm really proud of her.

She moved out when she was like 18 or 19.

And so she, she was in a studio.

Now she just got her one bedroom apartment, dog, a cat, bought a new car.

She's a case manager.

So I'm really proud of her.

I should have realized because you did say you wrote us.

I was sitting here thinking, well, shit, I thought you were gonna say you had like a six year old and eight year old because you're just like so young looking.

But then you did say you wrote, I think you're maybe my age, but.

I'm probably older than you.

I'm the senior citizen here.

But we won't tell anybody.

I'm say, I'm gonna say.

Just say yes OR no.

I'm 45.

I'm older than you.

Okay.

You know what?

My mom.

You look good.

I. I don't mind telling my age.

I used to, but I realized my mom passed at 53.

Okay.

Realize how young that is.

Like she had so much more life.

So I am 56.