What factors influence what clothes we decide to wear frequently, keep at the back of our wardrobes forever or send to the charity shop? Is developing an emotional attachment to our clothes the key to driving more sustainable consumption within the fashion industry?

In this podcast we discuss the durability of our clothes emotionally and physically and how this could be the key to cultivating a greener wardrobe.

This episode is hosted by Dr Mark Sumner, lecturer in sustainable fashion at the University of Leeds. He is joined by: 

Cat Salvage- Strategic Technical Manager at WRAP

Vicki Swain - Quality Lead for Primark

Kate Morris - PhD Researcher University of Leeds

[00:00:36] Now we know that the fashion industry has a very large impact in terms of its sustainability footprint, potentially somewhere between four and 10% of global greenhouse gases emissions are associated with the fashion industry and almost 70% of all of those emissions are associated with the manufacturing and the materials that are used in garments.

[00:01:11] We know that 400 million workers are dependent on the fashion industry for their livelihoods. We also know that the fashion industry is associated with consumption and massive growth in consumption. According to a written report by the Ellen MacArthur Foundation, they showed that consumption has doubled in the space of 15 years for fashion and fast fashion has been seen as the major culprit in terms of driving that consumption.

[00:02:15] The SCAP 2020 initiative showed that if we can extend the life of garments by just nine months, we can make a significant reduction in carbon, water, and waste footprint for the fashion industry. So today's podcast is going to really focus on the sustainability of fashion with that lens around durability, utilization, and how we all treat our clothes during the time that we own them and wear them to help us with the podcast. We've got three really experienced and exciting guests to talk to us about durability today.

[00:03:14] Mark: Thanks very much Cat, and we also have Kate.

[00:03:24] Mark: And we have Vicki.

[00:03:36] Mark: so firstly to get the ball rolling Cat can you talk to us about how important durability is in terms of the work that WRAP is doing with regards to sustainable fashion and the textiles 2030 initiative?

[00:04:18] As you mentioned before, this initiative really leads on from our previous voluntary agreement SCAP and we did a lot of work around trying to set some consistent testing protocols and minimum guidelines on durability through SCAP, through our longevity protocol which looked at five product categories setting some consistent testing protocols. For those product categories and that was really the first step on our journey to supporting the industry to increase the durability of their products. But what we kind of found from that piece of work is that there is obviously a lot of complexity. There's a lot of different products, there's a lot of different materials, there's a lot of different categories. So through textiles [00:05:00] 2030 we are continuing our work on durability and how it links to circularity and circular design.

[00:05:22] Mark: It's really interesting what you've talked about there in terms of that durability picture and you mentioned product categories. I guess what you're talking about there is you know thinking about a product category being casual trousers or formal tops that people wear and you were saying that this is, it's important to understand categories in terms of understanding durability. Could you just give an example of what you mean there?

[00:06:34] People want different qualities from different end uses. The citizen research that we did looked into how often those types of garments are worn. So for instance, if it's an occasion wear dress, you know, people are probably wearing that once or twice a year.

[00:07:09] Mark: Thanks, that's really helpful. You also mentioned this idea of product lifetimes are increasing for garments based on the research that WRAP had done, but we're using them less, and I'm just trying to get my head around what that actually means in terms of reality.

[00:07:54] Maybe we are buying similar items because we've either got too many in our wardrobes, they're not organized, we're not utilizing our wardrobes enough, or just because it's easier to buy those items now. But I think it also links into a discussion around, how can we use those items in our wardrobes more. That might be as you know, as yourself using your own items, but actually if you are not using them, can they be donated and go through a resale model or could you rent them out? And actually you need your products to have a level of durability for them to be able to have that second, third life as well.

[00:08:53] So, Kate, in terms of your position as, the PhD researcher working on the LITAC project looking at garment durability, can you just give a bit of background to what the, the project aims to do?

[00:10:13] We have explored a number of different categories across the board as has already been mentioned, this is because different end uses need a different level of durability. So for instance, if you take a formal suit, this probably will only be worn once or twice a year and over a course of its lifetime, a lot less than say the average t-shirt, which could be worn once or twice a week.

[00:11:01] This is really complex it's very individual and we need to understand what factors influence the emotional durability of clothing and how we can actually use them going forward in design and to ensure that the clothing that is put on the market has a better chance of being used for longer.

[00:11:41] Whereas if you compare it to maybe a more formal style garment, such as a shirt, as that fades and as you wash it over time, it starts to look older and that can actually impact the emotional attachment the user has to the garment as well. So they're much more likely to throw away that shirt far before they are the denim jeans, [00:12:00] even though they have the same level of fading.

So that's something else we're going to be exploring throughout the project.

[00:12:28] Kate: End use has a massive impact on the level of durability that the piece of clothing needs. Different garments are used in different ways so the level of durability needed is different, especially depending on the individual as well. You know, we could take the same garment and one individual can use it and completely destroy it after a month, whereas the other one could keep it forever there's so many variables to consider and that's something that we are looking at into this project to try and break that down and, and break down the complexity of the subject [00:13:00]

[00:13:18] Kate: Yeah, definitely. And I think that's where the end of life systems and circularity systems comes to play as well and if we can make garments that are repairable or recyclable, it means that we can sell on garments, we can rent garments out. It can have a second lifetime and I think that's also something very important to consider. People are always going to buy more. I think that's what fashion is. They always want the new trend and the next new thing but if we can create garments that will stand the test of time, it means that they can have several lifetimes and have several emotional attachments and hopefully meaning that we do start to consume less overall.

[00:14:33] Kate: There's always going to be a footprint involved in selling a garment on and it having a second life. However, that footprint is much better than somebody throwing a garment away before its actual end of life and in theory, that garment could even go on to have a third or fourth life. I think there's definitely a level of education around that with the consumer and them understanding that these avenues of disposal are there. It doesn't mean that once they've done with it, they just put it in the bin. I definitely think that is something that we need to be better at going forward.

[00:15:29] So if we can cut that phase out of the life cycle by purchasing more through pre-loved, that would be a real win-win situation for increasing the durability of the products on the market.

[00:15:59] How is that going to influence what brands are doing in terms of their approach to sustainability and durability? So, Vicki, in that sort of context then handing over to you, how important is durability to modern responsible brands who are trying to be more sustainable in the fashion industry now?

[00:17:10] You know, there are material complexities, construction, weight complexities even within a jersey category you would go from anything from a piece of outwear to a piece of intimate apparel. So, you know, there's varying different weights within that as well. There isn't a one size fits all. I think that's really important to say.

[00:18:16] There's a lot to go after from a durability aspect within that circular economy angle, the designing of clothes too last longer has absolutely the potential to reduce fashion waste. As a business, we have used the WRAP clothing longevity protocol to start to have a look at how we can prove to customer stakeholders and the wider industry about how clothing can be more durable because you have to have a proof point. You can't just obviously come out and say that our clothing is more durable. You need to actually prove that point.

[00:19:07] But it's also interesting that you mentioned that there seems to be a lack of consistency with standards around durability. Is that part of the reason why brands are engaging in the Textile 2030 initiative, for example?

[00:20:03] Mark: What you're talking about there, Vicki, is this idea of that technical or physical durability but it's still that complexity of understanding consumers emotional connection, and how that will influence and challenge people in terms of their shopping behaviour.

[00:21:00] It could also be that that item evokes memories as well. So we've got to start correlating that physical, functional element and aligning it with that emotional element as well. We see it very much that it tends to be those timeless, evergreen clothing items that people keep their connection to for longer.

[00:21:58] Vicki: I think one of the things that specifically people look at is price, and people tend to think that if something is of lower value inherently it's probably less durable. As part of the benchmarking and consistency piece within this PhD project, that we need to get to a level where actually price shouldn't always be that first consideration. If we can get that consistency across the industry, then customers can go into stores feeling really confident knowing that there is a base level as a foundation.

[00:23:01] But that's not always, the case and I think that's what is going to be really interesting to see through this PhD project then how we use that information to then develop this consistency across all retailers getting that minimum level right is going to help us hopefully not greenwash our consumers. We want to give them correct information about how many wears and how many washes these garments should last for.

[00:24:04] Cat: As a consumer, when you are shopping for new clothes, I guess you really want to think about how are you going to use that item? How much use are you going to get out of it? And use that to guide your purchasing habits.

[00:24:41] Mark: When we talked about the fast fashion phenomena, most people assume that fast fashion is about low value product, but actually fast fashion is a trend that affects all sorts of different price brackets. So luxury, fast fashion happens, people buy lots of things, they use it very little, and then they buy the next thing. So we see that happening in all sorts of different product categories and price ranges. And talking about price, it's really interesting that what we're suggesting here that price is not an indicator of the durability of a garment. In terms of your research, maybe you've already started to see some evidence that supports that idea that price is not a guarantor of good quality, durable product.

[00:25:49] Mark: So thank you to Vicki and Kate and Cat for that really interesting discussion about durability and the fact that durability is far more complex then maybe we thought before the start of the podcast. This idea that we have something called physical or technical durability in terms of wear and tear of garments, but also that we have emotional durability, connection between us and products.