Alex Sanfilippo, the founder of PodPros.com together with his team, develop software solutions that help and support podcasters and their guests streamlining the podcasting process. Alex talks about what made him decide to build these software solutions, how to be an ideal guest on a show, and listen as he gives us some tips for pitching a podcast.

Don’t miss:

• Alex process of finding a problem and solving the problem
• The whole idea behind PodMatch
• You need to find ways to streamline, have that streamline with some help and focus on your content
• From your pitch and when you're on the show, make sure you're leading from a place of value
• Seek to be a person of value, not a person of profit

About Alex Sanfilippo

Alex Sanfilippo is the host of the top-rated podcast called Podcasting Made Simple. He is also the founder of PodPros.com, a software company focused specifically on the podcasting industry. Alex and his team have created popular services like PodMatch, a service that matches podcast guests and hosts together for interviews, and PodcastSOP, a project management tool that helps podcasters keep up with their episode releases.

Website: https://podpros.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AlexJSanfilippo

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexsanfilippo/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ajsanfilippo/

About About the Host:

Michelle Abraham - Podcast Producer, Host and International Speaker.

Michelle was speaking on stages about podcasting before most people knew what they were, she started a Vancouver based Podcasting Group in 2012 and has learned the ins and outs of the industry. Michelle helped create and launched over 30 Podcasts in 2018 and has gone on to launch over 200 shows in the last few years, She wants to launch YOURS in 2022!

14 years as an Entrepreneur and 8 years as a Mom has led her to a lifestyle shift, spending more time with family while running location independent online digital marketing business for the last 9 years. Michelle and her family have been living completely off the grid lakeside boat access for the last 4 years!

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This is Amplifyou the podcast about you discovering your message and broadcasting to the world. If you're a coach, author or speaker, you'll want to tune in. If you're looking for the best return on your time investment, to get your message out to the world in a bigger way, we're giving you full access behind the scenes look of how we're running our podcasts, how our clients have found success, and what you can do to launch your podcasts today. The world needs your message. I'm Michelle Abraham, the host. Join my family as we unleash your unique genius and find the connections you need to launch your venture today. Join us and let's get amplified.

Hello, hello amplify you Michelle Abraham here. We are so excited to have Alex Sandfilippo with us today. Alex, how are you doing?

Michelle? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having today.

Well, you are so welcome. We're excited to have you on this asks the expert interview. Because as some of you may know, or may recognize Alex name, he is from podpros.com. And he also owns pod match. And we love pod match. So we would love to dive all into pod match and podcast guessing and stuff. But first, before we do that, let's take you back to the beginning. Alex, how did you get started with a podcast, a ministry? And what do you love about it?

Yeah, sure. So I had it. Like most people, Michelle, I think I can't remember if it was you or someone else or on a call with one time mentioned me a failed attempt at podcasting the first time they tried it, because that was me so many years before I started with now a more successful podcast. I tried for about six weeks and hated it and left and came back years later. But anyway, so I'll skip ahead. So I actually was in the aerospace industry. So I was working full time for a big corporation, where multibillion dollar organization of work come out to the executive level, which for me was like a dream. It was so cool. It's where I always wanted to be when I got there. I was like, Oh my gosh, I don't know if I love this anymore, you know. So it's one of those things and but here's what happened next. I was like, Well, I think I want to be an entrepreneur, like I think what I liked best about business was being able to just do things and see them work. I was running a commercial operations division, which means I was protecting the company's profit margins and processes. And I was like, Man, I really love just that aspect of business. So I was like, what if I could do it for myself? Well, here's the thing, Michelle, I wasn't really an entrepreneur. I mean, after this point, I guess it was 13 or 12 years in the actual like, corporate America setting, you don't really have a lot of entrepreneurial gifting anymore, right. Like you've been really just you understand how things work if you have a huge team doing it for you type of thing. So I am, it was weird. I was like, I need to figure out how to be an entrepreneur. And I had a couple like little failed side hustle attempts. And I was like, you know, I need to talk to people that actually have done this, who have left a nine to five job and pursued entrepreneurship full time and been successful. So I just started a podcast, so I could get basically free coaching for lack of a better term. You know, I like to think it was a smart move. But also I was very curious. And because of that it actually just took off. So the show is doing really well. And it was a huge like when when I learned how to become an entrepreneur, but I also was able to grow a following in podcasting. And that led me into realizing I had wanted to be in podcasting full time. Like I love the industry. I got to meet people like you, Michelle, like you're just you're in abundance mindset person, like no way at all. Have you ever been like, oh, we can't share that trade secret, right? Like you're an open book. I'm an open book. And so many people I meet in this space, I like that. And so I fell in love with it. I really was like, you know, what is my area of passion? I'm going to try to find a problem in this area of passion. So what are podcasts are struggling with me create a solution for that. And that was kind of my step into podcasting and becoming an entrepreneur all in one for you there.

That's awesome. I love it. And you know, we definitely share this because I started the blissful parenting podcast, because I wanted all the parenting coaching. It's really a really works well, like, I feel like I've got hundreds of hours of parenting coaching over there. So that's great. I love that. Right? It works so well about. So that's really interesting. I love that, you know, not not most people, like start off thinking about a problem and then find a solution that they can solve. It's really like, you know, randomly happens or something. It's not it doesn't usually happen in that way. So what was your process of like finding a problem? And how what what problem did you come up with?

Yeah, I probably already gave us a way with my with what my show was about, but I learned that strategy from guests that were coming on my show, right? Like how to become an entrepreneur. So for me, it goes from area of passion to again, finding the problem solving the problem. And you do that by asking questions. And so the way I practically did this, Michelle, you might remember this but 2020 There was an in person podcasting conference. It was beginning of March actually, I believe was it was it was pod fest Orlando. And there's about 2000 people there and this is literally like I think the world shut down four days after we all

conference on the west coast for podcasts and called New Media Summit that exact week.

It's so it was such a weird thing because I'm never coming home people like Well, yeah, the world is like really starting to shut down. I'm like, No, it's not I was just sort of landed with 2000 people like we're good. Anyway, not going to get into all that. But while I was there I was I was speaking, I told my wife, hey, the way I'm gonna find the problem to solve is when I get off stage, whether you're good or bad speaker, people are kind, they're going to talk to you afterwards, right? So people wanted to talk to me and I just every single one that said they were podcast or asked what they were struggling with. And Michelle, I took notes of this. And what I did is I just, I logged that 100 Different people said the exact same thing or a variation of it, of Alex having trouble finding guests, or I'm having trouble finding the ideal guest or I don't even know who to have on the show. Like, these were the quiet these were the things people were saying. And it took me aback like I had a flashback to when I started my show. I mentioned being in corporate, right. And I wanted to do an entrepreneurship show. Well, you could probably imagine, I knew a lot of executives, I knew a lot of C suite people to have on the show. I didn't want them to show that one entrepreneurs, I realized I knew about three entrepreneurs, right, like so I had those three people on the show. And then I asked them all to come back. Because I was like, oh, and like three times. Right? And thankfully, they agreed to it. Some of them came back. And some of them are like, Well, I'm introducing my other friend who's an entrepreneur, right? Yeah. And so like, I just have like friends and family on initially. And thankfully, like I said, my show just was the right time, it really took off and grew. And that gave me the ability to have bigger guests on a lot faster than most people have the ability to, and all I can say it was right place right time. And because I was not that genius, let's put it that way. It just kind of happened. And anyway. So for me like it was it was just bringing the right people. So I thought back to that while I was at that conference, I was like, Man, I had this problem too. And I kind of forgot about it. And so I came home, I took another information. I called an old friend of mine who I worked with once before, he's like a software developer, I was like, Hey, man, I've got this idea. And I'd love to be a 5050 partner with you. We could draft the paperwork, and let's just each put $2,500 into a bank account, and see if we can build this thing and see what happens. And so that was March 10 2020. And on June 15 2020, we launched into an early beta. And what I did is I called or emailed I should say called, I emailed those 100 people who told me they were struggling with that problem. I said, Hey, well you test this out, this is what you said you're struggling with, can you tell me if this is working for you. And when we launched that thing, MVP, we had no logo. It didn't look good. It wasn't fast. But you know what it solved the problem people were looking for. So again, that was the solution we created based off the problem that people told me about. Awesome.

And now that has kind of morphed into what pod matches today. Correct? About pod match? I mentioned how should we love it, but I didn't really say what it was?

Yeah, thank you for that. I'm really pretty. I mean, so much specially somewhat of your like your level, you're just like, you're one of the geniuses in podcasting. So it's just really cool to hear you say that. So yeah. So pod match, is basically this was the idea we had. So again, like the people having trouble finding guests for a show, right? Well, there's guests also looking to be on show. So it's like, alright, this is interesting. When we do here, we literally just copied what online dating apps were doing. And instead of connecting people for days, we connect them for podcast interviews. So it's all based on an algorithm, you join, you set your profile, and the algorithm looks at 39 different criteria pieces and says, Okay, Michelle, you're looking for guests to talk about your unique genius, right, amplify you. And it's saying, Well, Alex is a podcaster. So are you Let's go and put you two together and basically spit out a match and say, Hey, your match percentage is x. And from there, you can message each other on the platform and decide if it's a good fit. You can do everything from scheduling. Say when the episodes coming out, like and do all of it. The idea is you don't have to ever exchange an email if you don't want to have all the guest information, all the host information, all the audience information. And that was the whole idea behind it. We just simplify the entire booking process for everybody involved in podcasting.

Yeah, it's been great. I mean, it's so interesting, because we so a part of amplify you is we do guest bookings for our experts. But one of the challenges is is is that sending those pitch emails, and we go well beyond what most people do when we send a video or we, you know, send them we do a lot of research behind it. And we have this nice looking thing. But still, if people's inboxes are so bombarded with things these days that it's hard to get responses from people. So we started using pod munch and the agency format where we were able to manage some of the guests that were managing, so we bring their profiles on there. It's incredible how much faster we've been able to get them really good quality podcast interviews on great shows, really quickly, without all the back and forth and hassle. And like, did they respond to our email? Did they not like, Are they alive? Did they get it even? Like it's just so much more simple?

I love hearing that. And that's exactly what we built this thing for. He told me the agency model. I mean, we wanted to not only help individuals, because we did want to do that. But there's people like you who literally you you serve these other people, right, I'm like, well, we can't just leave them out to dry right? Like let's let's go ahead and build them to help them. So I love hearing them. And you totally just made my day here.

So I'm so glad because you made my week last week winners good. podcast interviews connected, right. So one of the cool things too I love is that it allows us to share that this person is being managed by us because one of the things I hate is that in an authentic and authentic you know not being transparent, right? We don't want to pretend to be our clients and you In those interactions, we want them to know that it is us managing their account. So that was a really huge feature for us that has just been really great to not have to like pretend that we're someone else.

Yeah, that was an important thing to us just for even legally, I think that pretending to be somebody else is probably not a good idea. So we made that really clear up front. So I'm glad to hear you say that as well.

Yes, and awesome. And so now pretty much is just one of the few things that you do in the podcasting space. Can you share a little bit more about what else you do?

Yeah, sure. So one of the things that we like Pod Pros is being the the organization as a whole. And I'll quickly explain why I did that. When we launched pod match, we added a second product called podcast SOP that I'll talk about a minute and their software. Well, now my team was like, well, you need social media for all those two, it needs its own blog, and needs all this. I was like, oh, no, I don't. I'm like, we have plans for like five more products. I'm like, what do we have, like 35 different? You know, like social media accounts across the board. I'm like, No, we're gonna make like a parent company name, right? I'm doing air quotes here that we can just kind of manage all through. So pod pros is just software solutions for podcasters. And so that's where we do the education. That's the blog. That's all the social media. And then under that umbrella is pod match. And then we just added podcast SOP, I'm not exactly sure where it went last last year, at some point, we added podcasts SOP but basically, the SOP stands for Standard Operating Procedures. And the idea is just for those independent podcasters that are saying, hey, managing the workflow of a podcast productions, a lot of work, right, like keeping track of it all. So we built basically a glorified checklist. And everyone can customize their own. So you basically say, Hey, here's the 10 steps I do every time a releasing episode, you create that as a template. And every time you're making a new episode, hit Add episode, at the title of the episode number, the release date, it'll automatically tell you here's all the steps you said you need to do. Here's the due dates on each, you have a team, it signs, the team members, you can comment, you can upload stuff, you can have instructions on there. The idea is it's a one stop shop. So for my podcasts SOP account, I have seven people who work on my podcast with me. And all I have to do is press a button, and automatically signs for everyone gives them their dates, and they collaborate. I think I'm on four of the 37 tasks that we have right now. And I only touch those four things. And the rest of it's all basically automated among the rest of the team. They all coordinate right there through it. So that was our second thing. And we just saw the problem, right? Like, again, our podcasts are saying, well, I'm so stressed all the time podcasting. And that's why we decided to create that for people because we saw that we could we could solve that solute that problem as well and create the solution. Yeah, it's

crazy. I mean, we do the done for you solution to that for people and what we've we actually wasn't working. We kind of surveyed a lot of our clients. And before they started working with us, they were spending on average five to seven hours a week. Oh,

my goodness. That's one episode.

Even five out this like 20 hours a month. Imagine how much more money you would make if you spent 20 hours a month on your business activities that like bringing in money, right? So I was super excited to see podcast SOP because I was like, oh my god, this is so good for those people. Now I refer people to who don't want to do to the dunk, they can't really afford the done for you services. But like this is something that will keep them going. Because one of the things I hate is that people spend so much effort and time launching their podcast. And it's at this crucial moment of after the launch. Did you know that only 75% of podcasters 75% of podcasts don't make it past episode 10. I just found that really. And I didn't know that I was like, that's crazy. So you spent all this time and effort and even the past episode 10. I think that's a lot to deal with. The problem you've just solved is having the organization of everything.

It makes me think back to I was listening to amplify you and which I it's a great show. It was back on April 6, you had Devorah fish I think was Was her name. Oh yeah. And she was talking about like, which was brilliant. She talks about how you can use interns to grow your business and stuff like that, which I encourage everyone hearing this, if you haven't heard that one, go back and listen to it. But one of the things that she said that really stood out to me was time at how entrepreneurs or in our case, podcasters get so stuck in the weeds like you launch and you get all excited, you start building a little bit and then you just get bogged down by all the little things. And that's why working with somebody like you helps them get back into the actual audience growth, or the business side of it right, the things actually matter. Because in the day, this is what I always I always say the same thing. So all due respect to everybody on this, but your audience does not care about the seven hours you spent editing, and working on the behind the scenes trying to find guests, you know, trying to keep everything organized, like they don't care about that all they care about is the content that is actually serving them. And really that's all you should care about too. Like I'm not saying to skip all that like you've got to do those things, but you need to find ways to streamline it because at the end of the day, it's like you're not spending time with the reason that you got started right like the listeners are your goal right not to become the most produced podcast ever. So you've got to find a way to turn it back to how do I get rid of this part of the business? That's like the weeds of it right and get back into the part that actually impacts and influences people. I'm very passionate as you can tell. I absolutely

agree. We share that passion to you because you're an expert in what you do. You You're not an expert in podcast editing. I'm not an expert in podcast, managing none expert in social media, not an expert in all the little pieces and all the things, the graphics, like everything that goes into the production of it. So it is well worth your time to have that streamline with some help, or some, at least a list to help you like focus. And, you know, oh my gosh, do I ever wish that podcast as if he was around when I like source launch my podcast, this is why we do Done For You services was because of my own inability to keep myself organized. When I launched my podcast, I was like, This is crazy. I'm like, there's so many moving pieces that I'm not good at. Because I'm good at this. But not that not those things. Right. This is why we have a team

of people that have like, the all the sticky notes all over the place. And I'll admit, that was me at one point. And you just move it over when you're done. I'm like this works. And now I look back. I'm like, What was I thinking? Like that was so much administrative, like emails back and forth to the team. It was, anyway, just a nightmare. I feel for you there because I was there at one point to

actually follow one of our podcasts and clients. She's got a podcast called focus of freedom for entrepreneurs. She and I were in the mastermind together and she helps she was trying to help me. We were having a call together about when I was first starting the podcast and amplify you and everything. She's like, well, let me help you map it out. And she knocked it out on sticky notes for me. 49 sticky notes, Alex 49. There was one lot of sticky notes for one episode. Oh my gosh,

there's quite a bit. Yeah, please don't lose one or get them out of order. Right?

No, exactly. So now there's a really cool event coming up in a couple of weeks that you and I are both gonna be at pod fest. And we're like, no. Which was the venue we're at right before the pandemic, which is awesome. I've never been to it. I'm very excited to go for the first time this year. What are you? What's your topic that you're speaking on?

Yeah, I'm so excited to be back in person. It feels crazy. Because like two years ago, it was there. And this is where like, I got the idea for the business that I now run, right? Like, it's crazy. Everything kind of started there. So it's cool to be going back a little bit later in the year. But you know, to two years and some change later. Very excited just to get around the community. Because real quick here, I'll get to my topic. But you mentioned 75% of podcasters. Like stopping before the breaching 10 episodes or at 10 episodes. The thing is, when you're in community, it's a lot easier, stay involved. Like when you're around other podcasters it's when you're going alone, that you're easier, it's easier to get, like discouraged and decide to fall off. So

podcasting is like one of the most nicest like, Oh, yes. Like the people or everyone I've met are just like so nice and so genuine. And like you said earlier, like willing to collaborate share, which I love. It's more of like a collaborative mindset.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you know, so going back to the event here, I'm actually sharing about what kind of time I hear. I'm gonna be talking about how to stream on the production of your podcast, how to like, figure out what matters, what you should be focused on. And it'd be like in the what they call the podcasting one on one track. So it's for the people that are under 25 episodes, basically, right? Or, like, they just don't understand it yet. Right? You have to have more episodes than that. And sometimes I need to go back to one on one. There's many things I still don't understand all podcasting. But uh, but yeah, I'm really excited to be able to share that can be a lot of fun.

Yeah, that's so cool. I'm speaking on the first thing on the women in podcasting track. So is leading our track with like others, we have six or seven amazing women on our track, we are going to be on the panel specifically about mindset because it took me four years to launch my podcast, there was a lot of minds that went through and it's like, never knew I wanted to have a podcast segment that long to launch it, as our listeners have heard many times, I'm sure. But it was so great to ask me so great to share that. And there's also a monetization one, and a few other things specifically in the women in podcasting check. And then on the Saturday, I believe, I'm gonna be teaching an experiential workshop on how to do great show notes. So that's gonna be a lot of fun, as well. So I'm excited to meet you in person and see all of our podcasting friends live actually in person and an event with other people, which is going to be so weird.

Yeah, you know, podcasting is such a remote industry, isn't it? So it's amazing. You get the same room last week and I was in Texas at a smaller podcasting event just under 100 People called outlier. And there was like people that I had been talking to, like via zoom and even clubhouse back a couple years ago that I hadn't met in person and I'm like, wow, there's like eight people here that like always dreamed of meeting we're all just hanging out for a weekend. It's a really cool thing but especially for like such a remote industry it's like hey, you hardly ever unless you go on these events you're not going to meet other podcasters really

right yeah, I mean it's certainly so cool to be able to you know meet friends online and then then meet them in person like years later like later that year is so cool. I'm so want to jump back on to podcasts guessing for a moment because I know that's one of your specialties. What are a couple of things that you think that are really important as a podcast guests now you do something in this episode that I'm going to share with our Our audience I think was like, brilliant. And you probably just did it because you're such a great person and so nice. And you probably don't even

realize what did I do? I don't know what I did.

Share afterwards. Like, it's so awesome. I think people should probably do this and then go on as a guest. But what are some things that you've seen to really make some of those matches that you see on PI match be successful? And then the interview exchange be really great.

Yeah, you know, I say the same thing from like, the pitch till you're on the show, or even when you're on the show, I should say, it all has to start from a place of value. So I don't believe in like the the old spray and pray method when it comes to things like don't reach out to 100 Different podcasters who like cool show, and like, just say that right? Like, cool show, I want to be on it. Like, for me, people are like how often you go through your matches Alex, like pop matches yours. I'm like, I can get through about two a week, like two matches, like two sets. And I know just two people like why I'm like, cuz it takes me about 45 minutes per podcast to see about even want to be on it. Like, I'm going to go listen to it. And I want it when I lead with like a pitch, right? Like leaning go into a pocket saying I want to be a guest on it. I'm gonna make sure I leave with that value of hey, I listened to your show. I like it. I left it a review, right, like so I can actually do that. And before on the show, I want to have known that I have listened to some episodes. So I can really understand the culture of the show. Because I don't want to show up with the wrong energy or wrong voice right like that. That's it doesn't do anyone a service. So I just think that that's the most important thing. So again, like when from your pitch, and when you're on the show, make sure you're leading from a place of value. That's the very first thing I want to mention. I don't know if you want to jump in there at all, Michelle, because I'll keep on going.

Let me go for some more after this event, I will mention that about the value piece, I think is huge. Because one of the reasons that we'd love five match twos because because our team does that to go and listen to every episode, we go leave them a review and we go engage on social media. So that's a lot of work to then send an email that doesn't get answered. And so like that's why one of the one of the great things about pod match is that they it is it is more well received. Good. There's a lot of work that goes into those that reach out, right. But yeah, no, go ahead. Tell us some more.

No, I love that. You said I think that's that's just the right way to do it. You might send out less pitches, but you get a better return. I mean, recently talking to somebody and he said, Alex, you need more people on pod match. I was like, Okay, we are getting people every day. But when he say that, he said only one out of 100 people he said he'd been tracking on one of 100 people except some on the podcast. And I nicely I really offended the guy did not mean to I was like, listen, the problem isn't the lack of people. It's the lack of your outreach. I'm gonna give only one of 100 saying yes, it's a problem because I looked at my outreach because I also track it. I was like pushing 97.5% I'm like, so mine's exactly opposite. I'm like, granted, if I reach out to a show, it's pretty much a guaranteed Yes. Because I literally am the perfect guest for it. Right? Like I have I have for sure. I know that for like through and through. And there's been like, I think one time ever. And I just say that because I can't say well, 100% But I don't think anyone's ever said no, and I've been on million plus people shows that I've been on shows with five people listening, all it matters to me is if it's a perfect fit. So anyway, I'm glad we talked about that. But you want that to continue in the episodes. So like I said, Leave with value. The way I always say is seek to be a person of value, not a person of profit. And for me a lot of that comes from my faith. Like I follow Jesus. I'm not trying to push up like any spiritual stuff on anybody, right? Like, I don't get it and all that. But for me like that is what I've based my life on. So everywhere I go, it's not how can I capitalize on the amplify you audience right? Michelle's great, she sent me on her podcast, and we're like, Ooh, I see dollar signs, right? Like, no, I'm not doing that I show up saying, You know what, I'm going to share everything that Michelle could ever want me to share. And a way that is going to add value to who I know is listen, because I've heard the show, like how can I add the most value there. And so I found that that again, that is the most important thing. Following that immediately, you can overshare to the extent of like just talking too much. And Michelle, I am still working on this. But the ability to speak in what's called sound bites is so important. If you can learn to condense things down to a smaller point. One, it makes it way more shareable. Like in podcasts and things like audio grams are like a huge thing. But if I just ramble for 10 minutes on every question that Michelle asked me, which I know I'm working on it, I'm getting my time down, right. But if you're doing that, then there's no way that that Michelle or her team can cut it out because there's not a single one minute segment throughout it that you can use. Now I've had some people might share, like an example with Seth Godin, who is just a professional this, I literally couldn't decide what to use, because everything was in like, exactly a 59 second soundbite like every answer. I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's all so good. I make 300 sound bites of this, right? You want to think about how can I pack that most value in the shortest response possible? I'm not just having a bunch of filler words. And you want to be thinking about that as much as you can. So that's another big point that I think has been I've seen a lot of people get really wrong, but people get it right really seem to crush it in the podcasting game on either side of the mic. Really?

Oh, yeah. That tripped me up when I was first interviewing somebody who was on on the podcast is for the summit. But I had Steve Walsh are on who now is no podcast magazine editor and yeah. He's now a client and a friend of his. But when I first met him like 10 years ago Oh, it was an IT WAS AN in podcasting was on a summit and he answered me in such concise sound bites that I was so thrown off that might also focus on what the next question was, I have no idea what he was saying. And it was it was the terrible versus the worst interview ever. And I'm so sorry. It was not because of him. He was amazing. It was because of me because I was so focused on like, what was the next question? And he answered so great that I'm like, Oh, God, I'm like, that's. So as a as a podcast? How is like getting used to someone who speaks like that with those really concise answers to and not be so focused on your question and just be present in the conversation is so, so important, such a good skill to learn?

You know, I know that that Steve holds you in extremely high regard. So obviously, you you did something to fix that relationship from that first interview, like he thinks very highly. Remember it. But something you just said there is a key point that really want to hit on. It's, it's a conversation. So I can't be sitting here like, anticipating what you're going to ask me, Michelle, so I can have my pre made answers, right. Like, I can't do that. That's not okay. Because, man, people have gotten a lot smarter with what conversation is, in the last couple of years, especially people are looking for raw conversation. People know, your mind is like, ah, Alex didn't really know how to answer that took them a second to figure it out. No one's are no one's looking at that way. If someone wants to hear somebody, some something so highly produced, there's zero errors in it, they're gonna go listen to NPR, they're gonna go listen to wondery. They're gonna listen to these giant leap produced shows from these networks, where there's 20 people working on it, and every episodes 10s of 1000s of dollars, if they want to hear that level of production, what people are missing in their lives with anything else is a genuine conversation where it's just, we're having just a conversation here, and there's not like, it doesn't feel salesy. It doesn't feel like it's forced. And that really comes from listening on both sides of the mic. Because again, if I have my agenda for what I'm going to sell through this, right, leading with profit set value, when I say we would value instead of profit, if that's my mindset, I'm like, Well, Michelle asked me this, but I've got to roll it into my book that everyone's got to buy, right? Like, if I'm thinking that way, it's not a good organic conversation. The best thing you can do on either side of the mic is sit back, listen, answer as truthfully as you can as least words as possible. And that's, that makes for a really great interview experience.

Yeah, one of the worst episodes I've ever had was New York Times bestselling author coming on in like every other word was in in my book and then in my

like, what in your life?

Like polish, I suppose. So.

I had one person I didn't publish it. He I asked him about something in the book. And I had read it. And he didn't want to say he wanted to basically that be the call to action. So during he's like, you know, I can't really give that up. If everyone buys the book, check out chapter six. You'll learn a lot from it. It's like, what I'm like, Man, you and I are just talking. Forget about selling to somebody who's listening. think from the perspective of value, right? I have some horror stories with interviews. Not many but I have a few sounds like you do to

do like a whole episode on horror story after horror story interviews, right? What

actually make a great podcast like you really got that. Okay, we should do that. That would be really fun.

We can't say names, we can tell you what happened.

I did one with with another lady Janet. Janet fish. And it was funny. It was like the most like random things that happened while you were recording a podcast. Like what were some bloopers like, I'm one of hers included, like the guest taking her to the washroom with him. Like, why is he an interview? Like, oh, gosh, that's so yeah,

as a podcaster. I would listen to this show just to like, feel good and laugh about what's happened to podcasters.

Oh, my gosh, that's crazy. Yeah. And yeah. So Alex, one of the things that you did do that I was like, Oh, this is so great. We should really ear I teach a podcast guessing class. And like, it's a really, that was a really good gem that you didn't eat, you just did it because you love giving value. And you're such a good puppy. I think you're so good at conversing and people person. But one of the things that you did when you came on the show is that you said you incorporated one of our old episodes, and something to learn from that episode into a value piece for this episode, which I thought that was really brilliant in such a great tip. So for all of our podcasters they're listening to this episode, that was really, really good. Because not only is it showing that he's listened to the podcast, but also gotten value from another episode and brought that into hit add to his value, too. So it's like a triple play here where now our listeners, you will want to go back and listen to that episode, because he talked about it. So thanks, Alex for doing that. And that was yeah, that was awesome.

Yeah, you know, that is important thing. Like I said, I go back and listen, and I take notes. And so I plan on I bet is something that is a strategy. Like I plan on doing that, but not from a place of like, Oh, I'm gonna get some kudos here. No, because it's like, hey, truthfully, I learned something from an episode. It happens to be your show. So if it comes up, I'm going to reference it and usually I'll have two or three main examples that that I can use. So it's just like hey, just in case this type of thing comes up and I remember it like I don't need to like, go like look at my notes or like, like, I don't have any notes today. Sorry, everybody. What I do I actually I shouldn't say that do have two things written down the name of your show, and the name of the host every time the name of the show and the name of the host because what I found be really bad eyeball. And this is a great, I think, a guessing pro tip. The listeners come for the guest initially probably right? And they stay because of the host. They fall in love with the show and for the host if you can show that you respect and you honor that host listeners are going to really like you. I had one person come on my show and he couldn't remember a name for the life and even though in the corner it says your name like literally says, Aleksandra unicorn, you can call me John. And I know my listeners were just probably like man who he doesn't remember Alex like, how can you not remember Alex, right? Like, I can already tell that they're putting up a wall against this guy because they feel like it's not good. And so yeah, I always tell people, hey, use the host name in it, and name the talk about the show because the people that listen to it know, amplify you they know Michelle, and when I hear those things, they identify like, oh, yeah, I love Michelle, I love amplify you. And so that's, I think a pro tip and then, like I said, if you listen to a previous episode mentioned it, that's an important thing to do as well.

Awesome, awesome tips guys. Alex is a pro and and I'm so excited because he's going to be speaking in part of Palooza coming up in June 17. And so guys, make sure you check out Potter palooza.com I haven't talked about it on the podcast very often. I should probably talk about it more.

Listen, that is a great event. The person was put this way the person came on before me. His name's Michael. And I liked listening to him so much. He had my undivided attention because it's paused on my slides, right? It wasn't doing anything else. I was like, Listen him. I went and bought the guy's book read the book reached out to him just to meet him. Pata. Palooza is incredible. Like any chance I get to be part of it. I am all in so yeah, you should talk about it more because it's a huge thing. Yeah, pata. Palooza

is super fun event. Guys. Make sure you check it out. And you'll learn lots more coming up. I will talk about it some more coming up because it's coming up. And then not that long from now. But for now, Alex, I just want to thank you so so much for joining me today. It's been awesome having you here. I can't wait to meet you in person in a couple of weeks in Orlando. And if you have some last words of advice for our podcasters out there today, when they go on and are reaching out to be a guest on shows. What's your best tip for them?

Yeah, thank you again, for having me truly an honor to be here. I can't wait to meet in person. Kind of a final thought for everybody today is just to to not struggle with impostor syndrome, which sounds weird to say, right? Because we all just kind of have that subconsciously. But at the end of the day, if you can help somebody, I believe you owe it to yourself and to them to get out there and help them. So don't wait to get behind a mic on either side. Like again, if you're guessing or as a host. Don't wait and hold back just because you feel like you aren't 100% yet. And a quick example is let's just imagine that. It's your first day as a lifeguard right, you're at the beach, I live in Jacksonville, Florida. So I always think about the beach, and you see somebody on the water and they're drowning. Now your options, you can see that person, your option is I'm gonna go out there and get them and swim it and help them I'm gonna save them. Or you can run to the wall and be like, Hey, excuse me, I know you're drowning. Let me go get a really experienced lifeguard because they'll do a way better job saving you than I will. And then you go run and do that. What are you going to do? You're always going to say, You know what, no, I'm just gonna go for it. You're gonna dive in there, you know, that might not look pretty, you might not do it, right. But you can save that person's life. And I think that all of us, the content that we have is serving the world. You've got to get out there and just push it in front of people as fast as you can. Even if it doesn't look great. If you come across Great. If it serves and protects and helps one person, then it's worth it. So get out there. And don't start with impostor syndrome. Help somebody today and I really think that podcasting is just at the forefront making this happen.

Oh, yes, that's a great tip. And done is better than perfect.

That's right.

Thanks so much. Alex has been fantastic. I look forward to seeing you again soon. All right, amplifyou family. Go out there and have an amazing week. Remember, your uniqueness is your genius amplifying it to the world as ours. Talk to you later.