Shownotes
Hello, Common Sense Ohio listeners! We're back with another episode that's bound to stir some thoughts and, as always, encourage a bit of good old common sense.
Let's start by setting the scene for a bizarre case that caught our attention – the situation involving Bryn Spejcher out in California. This one has got a lot of folks talking and for good reason. Bryn, while under the influence of some potent marijuana, ends up stabbing her boyfriend 108 times. The outcome? No jail time, just 100 hours of community service, and a couple of years of probation. Quite the light sentence considering the crime!
This begs the question – how far does the concept of 'diminished capacity' as a defense stretch our criminal justice system? It's a real quagmire when you factor in intoxication defenses involving substances like alcohol versus marijuana – and with recreational pot being legalized here in Ohio, well, let's just say this issue might hit closer to home than we'd like.
Turning our gaze towards the Democrats and their recent approach to book banning, let's chat about what's been happening with Amazon. They seem to have taken a leaf out of some Orwellian manual, trying to suppress discussions about alternatives and letting certain information slip into the void.
Be it the topic of impeachment, taken lightly these days by our government officials, or our own dear state's dealings with wages, we've got to keep our eyes peeled and senses sharp. You simply can't trust an administration where the cabinet's memories are as ephemeral as the documents they misplace.
Memorable Moments
00:00 Senate border bill negotiation fails; illegal incursions.
10:21 Republican leaders must tackle immigration.
14:37 American tradition of opening borders when needed.
18:44 Sorting culture by state, divisive but intriguing.
24:45 WHO and Fauci initially opposed masks.
35:55 Biden's competence questioned due to memory loss.
39:11 Client comprehension of charges and assistance in defense.
44:18 Judge questioning receipts and Fani Willis's benefit.
47:58 CIA initiated the Russiagate story using foreign bumping.
01:08:00 Questioning drug use, intent, punishment, and recidivism
01:15:37 Professional sound recording for your podcast here at Channel 511
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Transcripts
Alright. Here we are. February 2nd. That's 2 or February 16th. That's 2/16/24 Common Sense Ohio coming at you here from Studio C at Channel 511 Studios. Lots of people do podcasts down here, but ours happens to be the best, I think. Oh, Norm's got his constitution portrayed. Is that the right word? Display maybe is the better thing.
Steve Palmer [:Displayed. Displayed right there on the round table. The reason the table is round is because we like to have a discussion without corners. We don't cut corners. There are none to cut. Anyway, it's commonsense ioshow.com if you wanna check us out online, if you wanna get a catalog of all the back episodes, if you wanna check out Norm's blogs, if you wanna find an easy way to subscribe to podcasts, still surprising to me. Actually, maybe not surprising. Many folks don't know how to get a podcast.
Steve Palmer [:They still sort of search on YouTube or wherever. And there is a way to do it, and we can simplify it for you. Go to commonsense ohioshow.com. Click subscribe. It'll take you right where you need to be. You can check us out on YouTube, Facebook, all the video platforms where we are. See what I did there? I sort of begged the question, logical fallacy, but at least I recognized it.
Norm Murdock [:And a and a round table has an infinite number of corners.
Steve Palmer [:I suppose it does if you get down to molecular levels. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yes.
Steve Palmer [:We're not gonna do that. Oh, man. So we will get right at it. Our World War 2 fact of the day. Norm, there was a lot of stuff. We talked about the Pacific last week. There's some stuff going on this week, on February 16th, I believe, 1945, the Battle of Corregidor, a little tiny island in outside the Manila Bay. We, we I think we that we had our marines or the paratroopers landed on Corregidor.
Steve Palmer [:At the same time, we started bombarding Iwo Jima. So the Pacific war was on. The Japanese were dug in, digged in, entrenched into the islands. And more military. Yeah. They were entrenched in the islands. But, yeah, as we were sort of island hopping all the way to Japan, we we took these islands. And it's interesting.
Steve Palmer [:You know, I I I looked at the map and, you know, you hear Manila Bay and you think, like, beaches and and suntan lotion and
Norm Murdock [:Not so much, really.
Steve Palmer [:And stuff like that. But, you know, it's like and then you got Ali, the Thriller in Manila. But, you know, it was a a huge, huge, strategic gain. And when we had to leave that I think I think Corridor is the last island we left when the when we left the Philippines.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And I think it was, among the first we took back. So, anyway, that's what was going on in 1945 on February 16th. Last week, we had Glenn Harper from Harper Plus Accounting, our dear sponsor at the roundtable. So if those of you who have any idea or wanna know who he is, and you didn't catch last week's episode, you should do it. He provided a little bit of tax insight, but more important, he provided some commentary. You know, he jumped right in and and contributed to the common sense thought process right along with us. So common or, Harper Plus Accounting does my books this time of year, and I'm gearing up for my federal return or my, corporate returns on man, I just can't get anything right today. My corporate returns on March 15.
Steve Palmer [:Personal returns, April 15. And guess what? I ain't extended nothing because I got Harper Plus accounting on my side, and we're gonna get it done on time.
Norm Murdock [:Well, I was listening closely to Glenn, and he said, actually, our personals, this year are due on April 18th. Yeah. And I don't know why.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, because it's a holiday, probably. It's a holiday. Or not the holiday, the weekend. Helps So if it's due if it happens to fall on a weekend or a holiday or whatever, so April 15th.
Brett Johnson [:It didn't even look that far in advance.
Norm Murdock [:So So Okay. Yep. You know, an extra 3 days.
Steve Palmer [:And I know April 15th's a Monday, if I'm not mistaken.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. It is. Interesting.
Norm Murdock [:Don't know why, man.
Steve Palmer [:I don't know. Why why why would the federal government confuse us with something like an April 18 instead of a 15 deadline where it's been since, like, the dawn of time?
Norm Murdock [:I don't know. They don't even defend our borders anymore, so go figure the phone.
Steve Palmer [:Look. I mean, they don't defend the borders, but they're gonna be Johnny on the spot. They're they're gonna be the minutemen when it comes to collecting taxes.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, yeah.
Steve Palmer [:So speaking of the borders, lots going on down there. Norm, I know you got your laundry list over there, so we might as well hit
Norm Murdock [:it. Yeah. So, we had a border bill, ordeal that, the senate, had negotiated with the White House, and it failed. The the house of representatives is not gonna pass this deal. And what it was, the main the main fault of the bill is the deal was that Biden would shut down the border once the daily number of incursions by illegals was 5,000 or more, okay, for a sustained I think it was 5 days in a row, had to be 5,000, something like that in the deal. So uncle Norm got out his calculator, and I sat down, and I figured out that if the illegals came over at a rate of 4,999, in other words, one less than the, the trip wire, right, that was set in this deal, what would that equal times 365 days? The answer is 1,800,000 would be allowed would be consecrated by this deal.
Steve Palmer [:So unfettered. And and the other thing about the deal is it was It's insane. It it added nothing. In fact, it might have even watered down some of the, like, catch and release and and and, enforcement provisions. I mean, it it the bill did nothing. And it's such it's such classic political jostling
Norm Murdock [:Exactly.
Steve Palmer [:To promote a bill like this. That is completely unnecessary to shut down the border, by the way, because, look, every other president has been able to do it without such a bill.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly right. It's gaslighting at a high level for Biden to claim that he needs legislation in order to do what he's already authorized and empowered.
Steve Palmer [:Like, the one of the few things that he should have author authority to do and and and, you know, he didn't he didn't need a bill to forgive student loans, right,
Norm Murdock [:for instance. Even though Obama said, I do need legislation for him to have done it, but Joe just did.
Steve Palmer [:Doesn't need a bill for gun control. Doesn't need a bill like, the mighty pen is is very powerful except on the border with mister Biden, which is Give me
Norm Murdock [:the money.
Steve Palmer [:Right? Which is such nonsense. So what it is is political jostling. So they they set up this bill that is, baked with a bunch of Orwellian BS. And when the Republicans don't agree, they get to blame the Republicans as like a you know, this was bipartisan. You know, we so if they do agree and it doesn't work, well, it's bipartisan. Right. If the Republicans don't agree, it's their fault that the border is wide open. Right.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, it's such crap. And you know what? I fault the Republicans here for not being clear on that message. You know, it it's like the Republicans are a scattered mess, especially in the house, and it's been this way for some time now. And, you know, the Republicans need to get their act together and have a message here to say, look. This is BS. It the facts that we just that you just talked about, Norman, there's about a dozen other that if you dig into it
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah.
Steve Palmer [:The enforcement provisions are completely meaningless. Nothing nothing changes a thing. In fact, it might even make it worse because at least it's gonna rubber stamp admittance. And, you know, it it's it's nothing. And the Republicans are sort of, like, scatterbrained and pointing a finger at each other on this crap instead of just
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I I mean returning a message. The thing the thing that I can't get over is if the president has the power to shut down the border when it hits 5,000 illegals per day under this border deal, negotiation, then why not, you know, why not a1000? Why not 500? Why not 150? Why not 1?
Brett Johnson [:What is the magic what is this 5,000 magic number? It's a pull it out of your butt number?
Steve Palmer [:I would think that yes.
Norm Murdock [:It's just nonsense. Right? Nonsense. Well, it it it would allow up to 1,800,000 illegals per year by statute. Look.
Steve Palmer [:Why not just pass a law that says we're gonna allow x number of people in the country? Just reverse it.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right. What
Steve Palmer [:we're saying is, yeah, we know that there's gonna be illegal people coming in. So we're just gonna let it happen up to 5,000, then we'll stop it. But in 5 days, that'll start over. Right.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Right.
Steve Palmer [:It's such it's such a big deal.
Brett Johnson [:And then we already have the backlog of people that are in the court system to become legal. Right?
Norm Murdock [:Notices to appear that are now six, 7 years out.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Like, they'll go out.
Brett Johnson [:Which is moronic
Steve Palmer [:It it is. Completely moronic.
Brett Johnson [:That is moronic that we have court date 7 years from now.
Steve Palmer [:And you get the Democrats blaming the Republicans for this. And the Republicans are sitting there and sometimes just sitting there and saying not like, not fighting back. Say, look, this is crap. Yeah. We Biden, you could stop this today. He could stop it today. There's plenty of money. There's plenty of funding.
Steve Palmer [:There's plenty of manpower to do it. And if there's not, nobody would complain about hiring people We are if we're gonna use them.
Norm Murdock [:Right. We we we are we are witnessing a a very, noxious noxious nexus, I like that, between the Democrats who want unfettered illegal immigration because they have it in their head that illegals are blue voters, and they're gonna vote for them, and that's their constituency.
Steve Palmer [:Maybe that's what they think. Maybe maybe they're true ideologues. Maybe it's some something of both. Who knows?
Norm Murdock [:It's it's definitely that. It's definitely turning Texas from red to blue. And then the other part of the the nexus is Republicans who have been bought off by the big chambers of commerce who just want cheap labor, who just who just want people picking stuff in the field. And and what the Republicans are are doing is they are betraying American citizens and, you know, the, sanctity of their votes, and what the Democrats are betraying are their union, constituency who wants to have a high wage environment or a reasonably high wage environment, and these illegals are undercutting all of these union jobs. Yeah. So both sides are selling out their constituencies.
Steve Palmer [:It's always about 3 things, money, power, ego. Yep. At any given time, one thing is more important than the other or maybe 2 are there and one isn't, but it's always money, power ego. And you got money and power going on here. People want the power, and they want the money. And,
Norm Murdock [:when this will be solved will be when enough union leaders go to the Democratic Party and say, hey. Listen. You know? It's unsustainable, at at, steel plants and big agricultural, plants where we process chickens, eggs, beef, cat you know, whatever, pork. In in all of in, you know, in all of the heavy industry, we have people coming in that'll that are willing to work for cash for, like, $3 an hour versus our our men and women in the union who who are getting 45, $50 an hour. You gotta stop this flow of illegals. And then on the Republican side, you know, suburban voters or or just, you know, common sense people have to tell the Republicans, you're gonna lose all your red states here, guys. You know? This flood of people, if if they're talking if the figures are right under Biden, 10 to 12,000,000 illegals have come in thus far.
Steve Palmer [:It is insanity.
Norm Murdock [:That is that is the population of Ohio. I mean, that that I mean, you're talking about a whole another state full of
Brett Johnson [:You are
Steve Palmer [:look. It is a there is no other way to define this. It is giving the country away. I've said this before. If you a country is defined by its borders. Yeah. And if you eliminate borders, you undefined the country. You know, you you like, we and we're it's not like we're letting people in in the traditional American way as a melting pot to assimilate, to create a new culture.
Steve Palmer [:No. We're letting people in that don't want to assimilate. No. They don't want they want their own culture.
Norm Murdock [:No.
Steve Palmer [:And that isn't a country.
Norm Murdock [:And those are just the good people.
Steve Palmer [:The right. That's on the that's on the good that's on the best case scenario.
Norm Murdock [:So the MS 13ers.
Steve Palmer [:You're just criminals. There's the spies, the child. There's all I mean Yeah. In the car and back to your point about numbers, about the $5,000 number. You don't think these cartels will say, okay. Yeah. We'll just meter them in. We'll just Well,
Brett Johnson [:they they they play with ways. Right. And, you know, I guess, I wanna frame it too the way I'm looking at this, and I know you guys are too, is I don't think we wanna become unempathetic of the situation of people trying to get in this country.
Steve Palmer [:Not at all. Look.
Brett Johnson [:Have a tremendous hard life, and they that's why they're trying to run away. The good ones we're talking about, the ones that really wanna have a
Steve Palmer [:There are people who who legitimately want to get away from oppression and a terrible life, and they wanna immigrate to the United States. And I think it's our job as as the United States, not just a country, but as the United States, as America, to evaluate first our need for more people. Right? And that's a country.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, we don't always need people to come into our country. No. And then as a as a corollary to that, their need to come in. And then we can let people in as as we evaluate, and there's standards already to do that. This has been in place forever. Right. You know? And and, look, there's a lot
Norm Murdock [:of the standards is to be self sufficient. I mean, you you were not to become a ward of the state. That was one criteria for giving somebody citizenship Yeah. Is that you would be able to support yourself.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And thereabouts 18 60 ish, 61 through 65, we needed people. Right? So Yeah. We were letting I think was that about the time of the Irish Potato Famine?
Norm Murdock [:That was the time of the Civil War. The Civil War. We were definitely losing people. We need.
Steve Palmer [:People. Right? And look. What's your extension?
Brett Johnson [:The whole I mean, everything going
Steve Palmer [:on with that. Could say Yeah. You could say, well, that's the American tradition. It's like, alright. Well, go back and look at the dark side of that. We wanted people to go get killed in the civil war. So Right. Look.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, at least fight the civil war, not not necessarily die. But it's like was are you gonna
Norm Murdock [:say question. And I mean lot of those Irish brigade brigades from New York City were those guys were fresh off the boat.
Steve Palmer [:Like, clawed the boat. Here's a rifle. Go die.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly right.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. And they were conscripted.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yeah. It was like they had much choice.
Norm Murdock [:There were draft riots in New York City during the Civil War because, you know, people didn't wanna go and fight, you know, something that seemed like, okay. So some states wanna leave the union. Okay.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. They didn't care about anything. They were fleeing a country Right. That was in that was in famished.
Norm Murdock [:They didn't understand it.
Steve Palmer [:And they were just looking for a better life.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm. Not not to get blown up at the civil war and lose legs.
Norm Murdock [:Big time, man.
Steve Palmer [:But so look. I mean, the point I'm making there is that, when you're if you're gonna point back to say, well, that's not the American tradition is to to close the borders. Like, alright. Well, yeah, we open them up when we need people, like civil war. Right. And I I'm not saying that's the only reason we let people in. No. There's lots of reasons, and that's one of them.
Brett Johnson [:And and we don't need this influx for workers.
Steve Palmer [:We do not. We absolutely do not.
Norm Murdock [:That is a gaslighting work. Unemployment numbers
Brett Johnson [:the way it is with low low threes, whatever it is right at this point in time We
Steve Palmer [:don't need it.
Norm Murdock [:We don't need it.
Steve Palmer [:We've already incentivized our country not to work as it is.
Norm Murdock [:We already we say here on this program, and I think most, you know, most times we agree about this, is to let the market the natural market work. And if there aren't people willing to work for $2.50 or $3 an hour, guess what will happen? Employers will have to pay Whatever higher wages. Not mandated higher wages. Exactly. What natural market demands.
Steve Palmer [:I'm not gonna go pick your fields
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Brett Johnson [:For Or work at McDonald's for $10 an hour.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:Then you work at 10 you know? Yep. Let that let that happen.
Norm Murdock [:Let that happen. Once rates to pick strawberries would get to 15 or $20 an hour, Oh, there'll be people taking those jobs.
Steve Palmer [:Sure.
Norm Murdock [:Right? Yep. Yes. At $3 an hour
Steve Palmer [:When there's when there's a reason when there's a reason for the owners not to hire people at $15 an hour or they have an alternative, they won't
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Pay
Steve Palmer [:$15. They won't do
Norm Murdock [:it. 100%.
Steve Palmer [:And then then on the other like, almost as if they're shooting themselves in the mirror, the people the the dems would say, well, then we need to raise minimum wage, so we force people to pay this much.
Norm Murdock [:Did you Barbara Lee campaigning for DiFi's old senate seat out in California? Mhmm. So, current state or current, US congress woman Barbara Lee, proposed a $50 Oh, I
Steve Palmer [:did see that. Right.
Norm Murdock [:Minimum wage.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. So play that out for a second. Play that out for a second. Look. So here here's this is, again, Thomas Sowell argument. So if I if I have to pay, say, a law clerk $50 an hour,
Norm Murdock [:Jeez.
Steve Palmer [:I'm not gonna hire the brand new, un no experience person looking to enter the field. Honestly. I'm not gonna hire that person. I'm not gonna do it.
Norm Murdock [:Might as well hire a lawyer.
Steve Palmer [:I might as well hire a lawyer. I'll get a lot more out of it if I'm gonna have to pay that much. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And here my incentive
Steve Palmer [:to pay a law clerk is to say, look. I will pay you $10 an hour. Yeah. And they're gonna say, well, that's not enough because my I'll say, fine. Go work somewhere else, but I'll pay you $10 an hour. And guess what you're gonna get? Experience. You're gonna learn how to do things. And next year, I'll pay a little bit more.
Steve Palmer [:And next year after that, I'll pay a little bit more. And if you pass the bar, maybe I'll bring you on as a full blown lawyer, and then you can keep moving up the ranks. Right. But if you set the bar too high for me to ever have an incentive to hire a law clerk, then nobody ever gets an experience. Now, who does this hurt the most? It hurts the it hurts the underprivileged and the minorities the most. They don't get the 1st job at McDonald's. Right. Because if you're McDonald's, you're not gonna hire the the young kid $50.
Steve Palmer [:Who has zero experience for $50 an hour. You might as well hire somebody who's worked. You know?
Norm Murdock [:I talked to a Wendy's franchisee owner, and she told me that she has 25 employees because she can't hire them full time, right, because of the benefits.
Brett Johnson [:That's where I was going in my in my head with the $50 an hour. That's yep.
Norm Murdock [:Because they have made the burden of benefits Yeah. Too heavy. Now if it goes to $50 an hour, this in California was on the tube yesterday saying after he factored $50 an hour and the current cost of, supplies and and raw materials that a steak, just at an average steakhouse would be $300.
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:And he said, you'll put every restaurant in California
Steve Palmer [:Out of business.
Norm Murdock [:Out of it. I mean Yeah. They're done.
Steve Palmer [:Right. This is this is look. I I guess I'm not a pure libertarian, but people should go read Atlas Shrugged because this this is the this is the so I'm not like Ayn Rand Right. Complete, I don't buy it completely. But that's what's going on. Right? Eventually, they're all going to leave. They have to leave. They're gonna have to leave and go somewhere else and create their own Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Version of what works. And it it might be Texas. It might be a different state. I mean, if there's anything that's happening right now that's sort of interesting to me, it is this sorting of culture within our country by state. Mhmm. Yeah. And, you know, I had a debate up upstairs with somebody who was a friend of mine at one point, and she would say, you know, it's just she was, like, completely on the other side. We're very dear friends, She's like, well, this is just gonna result in in you know, we're just gonna I'm just gonna have to go to our own states and do you know, the people that think this will go one place in the country, people are gonna I I was like, yeah, we used to have that.
Steve Palmer [:It was called federalism. You know, you could go. Right. We had an we had the United States of America Right. That could sort of function based on the geography, based on the culture, based on who was there, based on what was necessary. They didn't have this jackboot cramming down on their throats from from Washington DC Right. How they should live.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, they're they're and then we had this constitution that sort of created a, maybe bumpers for that.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. A baseline Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:You you
Norm Murdock [:of of what your rights are.
Steve Palmer [:Couldn't do too much either way, but you could live within this
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And believe what you want, pray to the God you like, and, you know, whatever it would be. And the government wouldn't wouldn't, screw with you. Yeah. Now now it got so hamad like, the the the everything is so homogenized. They're not happy with you not supporting abortion norm. They you have to.
Norm Murdock [:Yes.
Steve Palmer [:And vice versa
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:On any other issue. They want you to believe what they believe.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And they wanna cram that down as governmental national federal governmental policy. And we have lost our idea, this notion of federalism. And, you know, and if you look at the big parallel views this argument before, you look at the big parallel of what sort of killed the Roman Empire, It's when they stopped, when they tried to force down, edicts from above on everybody, it crumbles. Right? Right. Because it doesn't flex anymore.
Norm Murdock [:And look how puny we've gotten in terms of the federal government's nose in your business that they tell you what kind of light bulb you're allowed to buy.
Steve Palmer [:What kind of shower heads you can use.
Norm Murdock [:What kind of toilet capacity. Yeah. I mean, it's unbelievable. It's it's
Steve Palmer [:it's insane. Car you can drive.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, it's just we're in the crackpot territory.
Steve Palmer [:You can listen to in your podcast Right. News. I mean, people think that's not going on. It is.
Norm Murdock [:Well, Jim Jim Jordan, a congressman from Ohio, revealed this week that the White House met with Amazon to get Amazon not to promote and not to sell certain books. So you talk you know, the d's like to talk about the Republicans being
Steve Palmer [:banned. Books. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Book burners. Florida book burners. Because they don't wanna have a penthouse, letters to the editor book in a grade school library. Okay? The the Republicans and the mothers out there are not burning books. They're just saying, we don't want certain books available to children.
Steve Palmer [:Important. See, this is, again,
Norm Murdock [:an overwhelming
Steve Palmer [:nonsense where they say you're banning books. It's like, no. That's not really what's going on. We we are regulating what is appropriate for children. Children age school at different levels too. So Yeah. Look, in my high school library, I had different books that were in my, k through 5 library. Absolutely.
Steve Palmer [:My elementary school library.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Right. It's not banning books. And I could always go to the bookshelf at any library and get any book. Right. You know, nobody would stop me. I mean, it's still nobody's stopping. You wanna go buy a book on, critical race theory or go, lease 1 out from a library? Go do it.
Norm Murdock [:And the books the books the White House didn't want Amazon to sell.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Let's let's hear this.
Norm Murdock [:Well, this particular meeting and and Jordan says he has more examples, but the one he revealed this week were was, were books, again, about the COVID situation, and they were books by doctors, books by researchers, books by people who used to work for the CDC. Yeah. And these people were writing books about how bad the COVID plague, if you will, was being managed.
Steve Palmer [:Criticizing the government. Right? Oh. Now if What could be more What is more relevant to the First Amendment than criticizing the government? This is what the First Amendment was written for. Exactly. Right. I mean, it it this is, like, it couldn't be more offensive to me on any level. Right. Any speech criticizing the government is absolutely free speech.
Steve Palmer [:It is I mean, we got rid of all that nonsense.
Norm Murdock [:Or or just people that wanna write about, you know
Steve Palmer [:All that sedition crap. It's like
Norm Murdock [:The medical treatments. Like like, some of the doctors were publishing books about why the mask mandates didn't make sense from a scientific point of view, why closing down grade schools didn't make sense. They had they had there were several books out, but you couldn't buy them on Amazon.
Steve Palmer [:Well and you couldn't get them elsewhere. So here's another interesting thing back then. I when the pandemic first started, there was, like, a flip flop going on about masks. And the first That's right. The 1st message was Even with Vauci? Yeah. No masks. And then the 2nd message was masks. Then the 3rd message was no masks.
Steve Palmer [:Then masks were mandated, and you should have double, triple masks. And then now they say, well, that was all nonsense. They didn't help anyway.
Norm Murdock [:And disinfecting our fingers, anything you touched.
Steve Palmer [:But right when it first started, I got online and early. Yeah. Early. Like, right at the beginning. Yeah. And I researched masks Yeah. For med in medical journals. I just googled it.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And I found about a dozen or half a dozen articles, and there was a study I read that basically said and I it was like the New England Journal of Medicine. Wasn't one of those
Norm Murdock [:Oh, it was yes.
Steve Palmer [:Basically said, look, there is no, we can't conclude that masks and it well, it had nothing to do with COVID, by the way. It was, like, a surgical setting. Right. They said we can't really conclude that in a hospital wearing a mask does anything, but makes people feel good was essentially the message. Yes. And it gives people the security that we're still used to wearing, so we're gonna that's why we do it.
Norm Murdock [:Right. We have to do something.
Steve Palmer [:Well, this is back in and this is a study back from, like, 2010 or something. And, what was interesting is I looked for that study later because I was arguing with somebody about it, and I couldn't find it.
Norm Murdock [:Poof. So Steve
Steve Palmer [:I could now maybe just I wasn't looking in the same place, but, you know, I'm not a good Google researcher. I just googled medical studies on masks.
Norm Murdock [:I know we're going down a little side trail here, but you are you are so on target that the World Health Organization's standing, practice when it comes to respiratory pandemics was, pre COVID, was no masks, and that's what Fauci came out initially and said. He said, look. CDC, WHO says masks don't work for a respiratory pandemic. It they have they're not efficacious. Yep. So they they both, the WHO and Fauci, the CDC, flipped, as you say, because the idea that it it it provides that we're doing something. Like, like have to wonder why. Like, why did
Steve Palmer [:they care? Who's making money? Because it's always money power ego. Right? So, like, is it the power? Was it they just wanted to see if they could force us to wear masks?
Brett Johnson [:Because there but there's no money in masks, because the masks weren't weren't even being made here.
Steve Palmer [:There were some money in masks because the government was giving them away.
Norm Murdock [:So they're all buying
Steve Palmer [:so somebody had a grant somewhere to either import them. But you're right. They weren't being so look.
Norm Murdock [:You might be right. Moved around. You're right.
Steve Palmer [:Money's moving somewhere. It's sort of like the the the, the shot.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:It's like, why did the government care so much you got shot? And then you look at the deals, because they got huge deals to buy all these freaking doses of this crap.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Companies Fauci was invested in by
Steve Palmer [:the way. Right. In their investments. Somebody was making I I don't know, Brett, how the money worked. I would only bet.
Brett Johnson [:But it moved.
Norm Murdock [:It moved around.
Steve Palmer [:Brett Remember, the government was I have them upstairs. I got boxes of these damn things still to this day.
Norm Murdock [:Well, and and Brett Brett to Brett's point, even the MyPillow guy was making masks. Well, then Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:You know? Jumping on it
Norm Murdock [:because they needed contractors to produce
Steve Palmer [:them. Right? Wonder. Yeah. Then you wonder. And this is we're going down another rabbit hole here. But, remember I I remember running my business upstairs, and I just sat in my office, like, I ain't wear no freaking mask. Not in my office. I own the building.
Steve Palmer [:Right. This is my 4 walls. Right. And then people are like, well, they can come in and check. Well, who is they? Yeah. Yeah. Right? They can check. So people can just walk into my building, like, well, where does that fit within the 4th Amendment?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And this is where you run into this administrative search danger. This is the brown shirt syndrome where alright. They're not really cops. They're sort of administrative agents, and they have the authority executive authority, by the way, the the authority Biden claims he hadn't he can't use to close down the board. But they have executive authority, to come search you for masks or whether you're doing you're running your business the right way. And it's like, it never happened.
Norm Murdock [:And meanwhile But it
Steve Palmer [:was like this philosophical thought that I had.
Norm Murdock [:And meanwhile, it has been conclusively, proven through testimony and and through FBI's own records that the FBI's out there talking to big tech trying to suppress all of this discussion about the alternatives.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I
Norm Murdock [:mean and and now we find out Amazon too is suppressing freezeb. Stalin esque stuff. Totally.
Brett Johnson [:Well and and, you know, big picture, this is going to happen again in another 80 years. No question. Every every one
Norm Murdock [:hundred and four.
Steve Palmer [:There's already a protocol in place. We've established protocols now.
Brett Johnson [:So we can't learn I've said this through the whole process. We're not gonna learn from this because of information suppressed.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:What good or bad in in your
Steve Palmer [:conspiracy theories?
Brett Johnson [:Disinformation or disinformation or good information. It doesn't matter. It all has to kinda go in this big pot and boil it up. And what came out of it, we're not gonna learn
Norm Murdock [:from it.
Steve Palmer [:We're just short term. You have to premise that point with the notion that people want to learn from it, the truth. They did not wanna learn the truth from it. They knew the truth, and they suppressed it and or at least they knew that there were counter, ideas to what their truth was and they suppressed those ideas. Yeah. So you have to wonder why they did that. What is the what is the power structure? What what is making that what is fueling that? Yeah. And so it look, the government is smart enough to know the stuff that we know here.
Steve Palmer [:When they said bodies were stacking up, they weren't. You know, it's like
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:When they said people are dying, you know, it's like they that mass didn't work. They knew that. So why didn't they it's not that they didn't learn the truth. I think there's a there's an element of the governmental, we'll call it the deep state or the administrative state. They
Brett Johnson [:center with all these tents where everybody that was gonna you know, the big wave that was going to happen.
Steve Palmer [:They were all gonna die.
Brett Johnson [:Or, yeah, get extremely set. Get out, you know, whatever the case might be. And kinda looking back on it, kinda now, like, it it's that, okay. We're gonna set up a scenario where, worst case, doomsday, but it didn't happen. Thank god we were prepared, though. Thank god the government helping us prepare
Steve Palmer [:for that, and it didn't really happen. Away from work.
Brett Johnson [:And It has the smell it has the smell of that. It just does. You know? Because we're all kind of going, oh my god. The convention
Steve Palmer [:sent us.
Brett Johnson [:It it can be full of bodies, but it never did. And, again, I'm glad it didn't. I'm glad
Steve Palmer [:it didn't. Ecstatic it didn't.
Brett Johnson [:I'm glad
Norm Murdock [:it didn't.
Steve Palmer [:Big Brother saved us. Right?
Brett Johnson [:But I think it turned into Big Brother saved us, though.
Norm Murdock [:No. You guys you guys remember from Roman history what the origin of the word, decimate is. It was, you know, when you're taking over a country or when you're disciplining your your troops that you kill 1 out of every 10 people. In other words, decimate. 1 out of Okay. And that's what they predicted for COVID Yeah. Was 10% loss of the population. They scared the bejesus out of people saying 1 out of every 10 people you know
Steve Palmer [:So you look around are gonna die. Friend, you're gonna die.
Norm Murdock [:Gonna die for this.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well and they also turned the the conversation we've probably talked about this before in regards to now that the terminology is you died from COVID. You did not die from COVID. Not right. You died from complications brought on by COVID, and it was maybe on the other hand, or
Norm Murdock [:You died with COVID in your system. There was a case of a motorcyclist who was
Steve Palmer [:with COVID.
Norm Murdock [:He was decapitated. Right. He died from blood loss because his head was separated from his torso.
Steve Palmer [:It's a COVID related death.
Norm Murdock [:But it was it was counted as a COVID death.
Brett Johnson [:Messes with the numbers in regards to the reality. Talking about that down here
Steve Palmer [:at the round table, and people were pissed at me. They were pissed with the jacks, checker, Jared. We were all down here, and people were furious. You're gonna get people killed. Right. And you don't get this vaccine, you're gonna kill others.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Like, I I went to my doc, and he's like, so you're gonna get the vaccine? It was it was a normal checkup. And I was like, no. No. And he says, well, you know, any questions about it? No. No.
Norm Murdock [:Hasn't been tested. Not even on rats. I didn't even say it, though. I just said no. No questions. Right. And that, Johnson and Johnson has been, relieved of any liability.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Well
Norm Murdock [:In case it backfires But listen to this. I don't wanna take that.
Steve Palmer [:How this finishes. And and he goes, well, you know, we're just, we're encouraging everybody to get it. I was, like, yeah. Yeah. I know. And you don't want it? Nope. And then he says it. Well, you know it only works if everybody gets it.
Steve Palmer [:Hey, here we go. And I just said I said, doc, you could not have told me anything worse if you're trying to get me to take this shot. Exactly right. You could not have said anything worse. Right. So save that one for somebody else. Honestly. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Right. And I'm friend he was I mean, he was my doctor. I we we but I haven't been back.
Norm Murdock [:Well, just a quick note back on the border for a second. So our, our secretary of homeland security, Alejandro Mayorkas, was impeached Impeached. By the house by a margin of 1 vote, which is another Like,
Steve Palmer [:again, a split Republican vote on this. I mean, I Well, no.
Norm Murdock [:No. No. I mean I mean, it was only 2 or 3 Republicans, but the point is, like, Johnson and, who is at the the the guy in New York. I mean, the Republicans have frittered their margin in the house down
Steve Palmer [:That's what I mean.
Norm Murdock [:To so to so few votes that if they lose 2 or 3, they lose a they lose And
Steve Palmer [:the question is
Norm Murdock [:the legislation.
Steve Palmer [:And and, look, too. So when people say, oh,
Norm Murdock [:he was impeached. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:It doesn't mean it because the senate's never gonna convict him.
Norm Murdock [:They're not gonna convict him.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know so look. But, yeah, I guess, I heard, I heard Ben Shapiro talking about this. This isn't my idea, but he's like, you know, the Dems sort of started this path where you have we have reduced impeachment to a political tool.
Norm Murdock [:Yes.
Steve Palmer [:And and guess what? You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes, and that's what's happened here. The the Dems started tinkering with this. We're impeaching people for whatever you want for not high crimes and misdemeanors. So now we get impeachments left and right, and not nothing ever happens with it.
Brett Johnson [:He lost his job, though.
Norm Murdock [:Right? So no.
Steve Palmer [:No. No.
Norm Murdock [:He didn't. No. He has no.
Brett Johnson [:I misread that. Okay.
Norm Murdock [:So here's the thing. Really, what they're pissed about Probably pissed about. Pissed about with Mayorkas is is he is a dissembler. He's not telling the truth. It it it this is a policy difference and a constitutional disregard of the administration's, you know, duty. And what Republicans, I think, they never would have impeached this guy if he would have appeared at the hearings and just said, you know, guys, we have a complete policy disagreement with you. Right? We are, in fact, encouraging illegal immigration. We are accommodating it.
Norm Murdock [:We wanna expedite it.
Steve Palmer [:But they're lying about that. Right?
Norm Murdock [:That's a
Steve Palmer [:it's a lie. It's lies. Damn lies.
Norm Murdock [:You we won't impeach you. Just tell us the truth about what your policy really is. Well, then they still might get
Steve Palmer [:peace because they're that that's that policy violates
Norm Murdock [:the law. Biden. Yeah. That that that
Steve Palmer [:that policy violates the law.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. He's carrying out what Biden law
Steve Palmer [:isn't enforcing the law that's in place.
Norm Murdock [:That's right. I am. They're impeaching the wrong guy is my point. There this is a guy who works for
Steve Palmer [:figurehead getting fired.
Norm Murdock [:He's he works for Joe Biden. This is Joe Biden's policy.
Steve Palmer [:Or somebody's.
Norm Murdock [:Well, it's the administration's policy, and the administration is Joe Biden.
Steve Palmer [:Well but Joe Biden I mean, anybody who watched that press conference last week.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It's office rocker.
Steve Palmer [:I mean and, look, it's almost, like, sad. I mean, if you watch that so the the federal government or the Department of Justice comes out with a study Yeah. Or a a report that says, look, we've we've investigated Joe Biden's, handling of classified documents just like we did Donald Trump's. And, yes, it is true that Joe Biden had, classified documents, not like the super highly most classified ever, but classified to the extent that Trump's had classified ever.
Norm Murdock [:About Ukraine.
Steve Palmer [:They they had documents that were classified.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And Biden's answers to the questions were, let's just say, not helpful for his defense. Like, he he he, told actually a book writer that was helping him write a book. Yeah. I got classified documents. They're down in my file cabinet, just like Trump did. He he had
Norm Murdock [:the big exception. Trump was president and had the right to declassify. Biden was a vice president.
Steve Palmer [:Talking after he's president.
Norm Murdock [:No. No. No. No. When Trump took those documents, he was still president.
Steve Palmer [:When he was asked about them, he wasn't. So at at any rate so he could so the idea that Trump could have declassified them before he took them and kept them at
Norm Murdock [:the moment. His claim is.
Steve Palmer [:Well, he didn't, though. He didn't declassify them.
Norm Murdock [:No. He's he's, okay, we're getting into a difference.
Steve Palmer [:This doesn't matter. Yeah. So the point is, why didn't he did.
Norm Murdock [:You would say he didn't. That's fine.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. We'll we'll debate that later. But the Biden has no good answers. They find, like, in a torn up box next to his Corvette or something in his garage where he classified documents after said they were all safely stored. Right. And they say, but this is different. We can't really prosecute this because our opinion is Biden's not competent to stand trial or worse to that effect. So he his, his mental capacity, his memory, his ability to sort of appreciate this leads us to conclude that if we try to present this to a jury, they would just look at him like some sympathetic doddering old man who can't remember anything anymore.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Well, look, anybody who looks at this and says, wow. Does what does that say about his competency to be the president Right. Would have to ask. And this is back to our New Year's predictions.
Norm Murdock [:Yep.
Steve Palmer [:So I wonder I wonder, is this the Department of Justice? Is this sort of the deep state saying, this is our way to sort of wedge or push him out of the way and and get somebody else to run?
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And maybe so. But, apparently, Biden went on board with that because he's gonna get up there, and almost like they baited him to get up and and not and have a press conference, like, after his bedtime, normally
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And and and and profess to the world that he's competent. And then he bumbles it, like, almost like, a stone embarrassingly bumbles it that it's almost incomprehensible what he's saying.
Norm Murdock [:One of the things the the most, I guess, explosive thing that he claimed was that, Robert Hurr asked him all kinds of questions to mix him up about his son Beau's death, and it has turned out that NBC News, of all outlets, which is a Biden cheerleading organization, NBC News has now confirmed, and, independently, other news organizations have confirmed through White House leaks that it was Joe Biden himself who brought up the death of his son, Beau.
Steve Palmer [:He
Norm Murdock [:it will be revealed that Robert Hurd did not ask him questions about his son Beau. Biden brought it up.
Steve Palmer [:He brought it up. So Biden's defense of that was like, wait a minute. I mean, the this attack on Israel just happened. How dare you make my life easier? You. Right. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:You're you're you're you're asking me about my dead son. How could you do that to a grieving father? He brought it up.
Steve Palmer [:In criminal defense, if I'm representing a client, if I were representing Joe Biden, I am duty bound. I would be duty bound to bring to the attention of the court the fact that I think my client may not be competent to stand trial.
Norm Murdock [:Yes.
Steve Palmer [:And that's a duty. It's a professional and ethical obligation.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And the reason is is that we consider it very, very, constitutionally inappropriate is not the right word. A bit a major constitutional problem to prosecute somebody who's not competent. Yes. You know? And it's not fair, in other words. It's a due process problem. And there's there's centuries of law on this.
Norm Murdock [:Yes.
Steve Palmer [:So I would bring it to the court's attention. The court would appoint, by statute, a psychologist to conduct an evaluation to determine if my client is fit to stand trial.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And the standard at that juncture would be, is my client able to understand and comprehend the charges, understand and comprehend the process, and then assist me in the defense. And, you know, those you'll send them off, and these people get evaluated, and I get a report back, and I can either agree to the report. I can disagree with the report, I can ask for another one, I can hire my own. Yeah. And if I were representing Joe Biden, I would absolutely do this. I've represented an an elderly gentleman who was accused of some sexual misconduct one time, you know, 20 years ago on a stepdaughter or something, and it was a delayed allegation. And when I met with my client, his wife, then wife, not the it was a he'd been remarried. She she said, look, I need you to know.
Steve Palmer [:He's at early onset Alzheimer's here. Yeah. And he's gonna he may appear to you that he understands, but he won't. And the case just declined rapidly. Eventually, I had the case dismissed because it just he declined to a point where he had no idea what was going on. He asked you know, he would go out to buy paint for a project that was 50 years old. You know? It's like Yeah. He didn't know what was going on.
Steve Palmer [:And I I this isn't to say this isn't a criticism of Biden. It is a fact, I think. I would have him evaluate. So now I would ask, why aren't we doing that?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I and you know, to your point, your prediction about filling the void of Biden probably
Steve Palmer [:Right. This is an easy way to sort of push him away.
Brett Johnson [:I heard last week filling the void will be Michelle Obama.
Steve Palmer [:I've heard that a couple places too. And, I mean, you got Gavin Newsom, Michelle Obama. Who's the dude we always forget his name from Minnesota?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. We should write that down so we know we keep saying that.
Norm Murdock [:See Minnesota now. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's I'm a smart colleague.
Brett Johnson [:But I heard that this week, and I thought of you. I was like, wow. That's that's a wild card.
Norm Murdock [:So buy Biden's gonna be in East Palestine, Ohio today. I'm not going at Palestine. No. This is not, you know, this is not to I'm not Igor, and you're not doctor Frankenstein. Right.
Brett Johnson [:Well, I mean and and the question
Norm Murdock [:It's East Palestine.
Brett Johnson [:And and and the and the question thrown at him,
Steve Palmer [:is he gonna drink the water? Is he gonna drink the water?
Brett Johnson [:I'm thinking, really, reporters? That's what you gotta ask. Dean Phillips. Dean Phil yeah. Dean Phillips. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:So he he is gonna he's gonna do something outrageous in East Palestine. Yeah. But so he's here today. He's here in Ohio today. He's gonna he you know, 1 year too late, he's gonna go out there and, I don't know, talk about. I'm I'm sure he's gonna bring a lot of federal dollars, and he's gonna sprinkle it around and make some announcements and whatever.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's it's all nonsense. It's all it's all political nonsense.
Brett Johnson [:Did he ride the train out here?
Steve Palmer [:Can you imagine, like so, I mean, looking at this and back back to our prediction. And and I always look. I I hate to ascribe sinister motives to stuff that you can usually explain with incompetence, but I see a motive here. Like, DOJ saying, it's time to get rid of this guy. So we're gonna drop this bombshell report and and basically create a path for somebody else to come in. And, like, after after the report and his display at this conference or at this, press conference, how can anybody say Right. That he is fit to be president? Yeah. So How can you?
Brett Johnson [:Timing timing's pretty good if you think about it. Yeah. It's not October. It's
Steve Palmer [:plenty of
Norm Murdock [:time for somebody to step
Steve Palmer [:right in. It might be Michelle Obama. It might be yeah. Whatever. It might be Dean Phillips. It might be whoever
Brett Johnson [:it is. Interesting.
Steve Palmer [:It's like now the deep state has chosen the president. That's my conspiracy theory of the day. But Or chosen the Democratic candidate.
Brett Johnson [:But if that gentleman is not fit to serve, we don't need him in there. I don't
Steve Palmer [:care what I don't care what party it is.
Brett Johnson [:Who it I don't not exactly.
Steve Palmer [:But this guy's got Alzheimer's or clearly, he's got, age related dementia.
Norm Murdock [:He's senile.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. He's got age related dementia. I'm not
Brett Johnson [:gonna say Alzheimer's. We were worried about Reagan the last couple of years.
Steve Palmer [:As we should have been.
Brett Johnson [:As we should have been.
Norm Murdock [:Well, they were they the media required Trump to take a mental mental competition.
Steve Palmer [:This, and Trump did.
Norm Murdock [:And he did. Right? They didn't require it.
Steve Palmer [:They baited him to do it. They dared him to do it.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly right. I'm saying the media, in their way, compelled it. And Trump Trump did it, and he passed it. And And Biden Biden also
Steve Palmer [:Biden 4 years ago was a totally different guy. I mean, like, totally different.
Norm Murdock [:Totally different. You just look at him.
Brett Johnson [:Well, the you know, serving in that office takes its toll.
Steve Palmer [:Irrespective of how old you are.
Brett Johnson [:It doesn't matter. If you're 25 years old, you're gonna walk out a 29 year old, 50 year old.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Look at everybody before and after, all the pictures. They're they're so
Brett Johnson [:obvious. My gosh.
Norm Murdock [:So the the the, Georgia case against Trump, speaking of Trump
Steve Palmer [:load off Fannie.
Norm Murdock [:Right?
Steve Palmer [:We should publish that again.
Norm Murdock [:Take a load on Fannie. Take a load for free. Put the load on Fannie and take the load right off me. That could be Nathan Wade's testimony. Yeah. Because what Fannie is claiming is when they went on these lover vacations, that, Nathan Wade, the prosecutor she appointed to go after Trump
Steve Palmer [:To the tune of how much money?
Norm Murdock [:He's so far, he's been paid three quarters of $1,000,000.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. That's pretty good. That's a pretty good sign up.
Norm Murdock [:An ambulance chasing lawyer.
Steve Palmer [:Not a prosecutor.
Norm Murdock [:No. So the question the question in this, in this, before the the judge to decide whether or not to throw this guy off the case was, well, mister Wade, there are receipts, in real time when you were on vacation off your credit card that you paid for this, you paid for that, you paid for the other thing, and so Fannie, who is with you, is deriving a direct benefit of enriching you so that she can go on vacation. Like, that's just one thing. And Fannie's defense to this is, oh, I reimbursed him with cash. So, actually, he didn't pay anything.
Steve Palmer [:The real defense norm is racism.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, well.
Steve Palmer [:I should say you accuse a black woman trying to do her job and survive in this world of such corruption?
Norm Murdock [:So I'll try to imitate it.
Steve Palmer [:That's her that was her speech.
Norm Murdock [:I'm not gonna emasculate a black man. Oh, come on. Hey. Listen. I am so far past all of this. She is a very well compensated
Steve Palmer [:Corruption is a good
Norm Murdock [:exactly right. She is she's making a ton of money in one of the, richest and largest counties in the United States.
Steve Palmer [:I don't care if
Norm Murdock [:she's playing the race card.
Steve Palmer [:I don't care if she's been discriminated against. I mean, I care, but I don't care for this person. If she's been discriminated against, she suffered racism, all of it. But it's not a defense to this. These these accusation like, you can't do what she has accused of doing No. If it's true, irrespective of what color your skin is. You cannot do it.
Norm Murdock [:Well and the the to to play the cash game is the old mobster defense. I mean, that's I mean, that's the classic thing you say to the IRS. I'm not allowed to buy
Steve Palmer [:a Coke for a politician in a round of golf.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly right.
Steve Palmer [:I can't
Brett Johnson [:Right. Oh, yeah. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. You you can't even do that.
Norm Murdock [:But she is claiming she went on these elaborate vacations, and in real time, she didn't take money out of her bank to in cash. So she has no receipts or anything, but yet she is saying, because my daddy told me to have 6 months' worth of cash sitting around the house, she is saying, oh, actually, Nathan didn't pay for those vacations, so I derived no benefit by hiring him. I reimbursed him dollar for dollar.
Steve Palmer [:Even short of that bullshit. The fact that she hires her love interest is corrupt enough. Well, of course. Right? But now if you're now if she's if she's gotta benefit from it and and I've talked to friends of mine who have golfed with people in congress, either state or federal levels. And you know what? The the honest ones won't even let you buy them a sandwich.
Norm Murdock [:Because it's reportable.
Steve Palmer [:And it's not just You have
Norm Murdock [:to report that.
Steve Palmer [:It's not just that I here's what the I think the more to the point though, Norm, it's not that I won't let you buy me a sandwich. It's it's that I have to buy it myself because I don't want there to be any question. I'm not gonna let you buy it and then give you cash.
Norm Murdock [:No doubt.
Steve Palmer [:They are careful enough to say, I'm gonna document every single penny of this because they know
Norm Murdock [:So I was a lobbyist
Brett Johnson [:because the anal probe hurts.
Norm Murdock [:I was a lobbyist. Know. I had to fill out those forms. The forms go to the Ohio inspector general's office, and you sign them and you notarize them. And it it is a form of, assertion that has penalties, you know, under
Brett Johnson [:the law.
Steve Palmer [:I can't send poinsettias to the courthouse. There was there was, there that that kind of stuff used to happen at Christmas time. We'd send poinsettias over. You send Christmas cards. You send cookies and and M and M's or whatever. And a guy came and baked cookies and delivered them to court houses where the judges and the staff works even as a thank you, legitimately, not looking for anything in return because the Ohio Ethics Commission is gonna crawl up your backside Right. And charge you with ethics violations, and those are crimes.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:So another big story, and then I definitely wanna get to some criminal stuff, Steve, that I need you to comment about, please. But, I can't let this go. This is probably the biggest story that broke this week. Matt Taibbi and Michael Schellenberger, who are 2, you know, liberal journalists but but very careful journalists. They have revealed that it was the CIA that initiated the first moves on the chessboard for Russiagate, for the idea that Trump and Putin were in collusion somehow. And the way they did that, according to their reporting, is the CIA would do something called bumping. Bumping is when you have somebody from a foreign country inadvertently, meet with, a target. And so, for example, if you have, sitting at the bar, if you have a a guy talking to somebody from the Australian embassy and the and the person from the Australian embassy is in on it, which is what, Taibbi and Schellenberger claim, in in regards to, Papadopoulos, George Papadopoulos, one of Trump's advisers.
Norm Murdock [:They're sitting at a bar. This guy brings up out of nowhere, oh, hey. Supposedly, Trump, you know, rented a room in Moscow and hired prostitutes. Right? So they the CIA documents that, Papadopoulos has been bumped, then they waddle down the street to the FBI, and they say, okay. You guys are in charge of internal investigation. We have 26 Trump targets that were bumped by external foreign, agents or foreign people. So FBI, here. You take it over.
Norm Murdock [:And this whole thing was orchestrated as a campaign within the CIA according to these 2 journalists. And guess what? The files at Langley, which were there, have now disappeared.
Steve Palmer [:Imagine that. So you have to ask why.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Why would the CIA what was the impetus to do this?
Norm Murdock [:The swamp. That's the I
Steve Palmer [:mean, I'm asking somewhat rhetorically. It's like, you know, the the answer there's no answer to that.
Norm Murdock [:And this was when Obama was president. So this is Well, remember, Trump went after Obama on
Steve Palmer [:the, birth birther scandal and all that other nonsense.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So there was no love lost early on. And there's this there's this, f
Norm Murdock [:But Trump didn't do any of that when he was president. Correct.
Steve Palmer [:But there was this event where Obama was sort of insulted Trump and is, like and made this speech, and Trump was in the audience. He's like, well, I just encourage him to run for president.
Norm Murdock [:And so for the
Steve Palmer [:worried about these other things.
Norm Murdock [:For the record on the birth certificate, the handwritten birth certificate has never been produced.
Steve Palmer [:Right. It was always fishy.
Norm Murdock [:It was a computerized reduction of the birth certificate that Obama released. Yeah. I mean, look Just saying. It was
Steve Palmer [:it it became this little back and forth game between Trump and Obama. Obama thought he got the last word when he said, I'm worried about other things. Just run-in the country instead of worried about my birth certificate. So I laid that to rest one. You wanna run for you, run for president. Get the votes, and and then Trump beat him, and that that pissed everybody off.
Norm Murdock [:Well, Obama had you know?
Steve Palmer [:Beat them, I say.
Norm Murdock [:Obama Obama was giving speeches during Russiagate about how you could not use the organs of government like the CIA and the FBI to go after your political enemies.
Steve Palmer [:After he did the same thing for 4 years.
Norm Murdock [:Turns out. Turns out. Right?
Steve Palmer [:Anybody, just go go research the Gibson Guitar Factory.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly. There
Steve Palmer [:I I will just I I I will bump everybody.
Norm Murdock [:But we did the show on. We did that.
Steve Palmer [:Go go research. Right. I I I there's my bump. Anyway Yeah. So we got some criminal cases.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So this I I should say legal cases. This defamation case, with E. Jean Carroll, the author for Playboy and Elle, who claimed that during her when she was in her fifties, she cannot name the year. And this is this is her testimony, so I'm not making any of this up. The during the testimony about this alleged, sexual, predation by Trump at the Bergdorf Goodman department store in New York City. She said because of this incident where with Trump where he attempted to rape her in a dressing room, she says that she lost all interest in sex from that moment on for the rest of her life, and yet she can't remember even the year it happened.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:She said 1993, 1995, 1996 ish, and then there's emails between her and girlfriends. One email says, and I quote directly, this is from her. As soon as we're well enough to scheme, we must do our patriotic duty. And and and and then there's the Law and Order show, which she has watched, where a character talks about raping a woman in a dressing room as a woman tries on lingerie, which is the exact fact pattern that Eugene Claire Carroll claims. So long story short, the original trial finds that Trump has to pay her $2,000,000. He wasn't charged criminally. $2,000,000, though, civilly for sex abuse and $3,000,000 for defamation. He continues to deny her claims, calls her a nut.
Norm Murdock [:She sues him a second time for defamation once again, and the jury gives her $83,000,000. Mhmm. And what I am saying as a common man exercising common sense
Steve Palmer [:This is all in New York too, by the way.
Norm Murdock [:So if I'm Brett Kavanaugh or I'm Donald Trump and I am legitimately, just for sake of argument, not guilty of what these women have claimed.
Steve Palmer [:Well, you're denying the conduct.
Norm Murdock [:Why can't I talk about why can't I say she's a nut?
Steve Palmer [:Look. This is gonna be a
Norm Murdock [:free woman.
Steve Palmer [:Look. This is You
Norm Murdock [:gotta be kidding me.
Steve Palmer [:Defamation of character and the slander and this kinda these kind of torts. And by torts, I mean, I am suing you
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:For things you said about me.
Norm Murdock [:Yes.
Steve Palmer [:Those those types of torts, causes of action always conflict with the first amendment. It doesn't mean one trumps the other, no pun intended, but that's the analysis.
Norm Murdock [:Yes.
Steve Palmer [:What if I have a right of free speech to say what I want. You have a right not to be defamed, and the law has to sort of sort that out. Yeah. And one of the things that everybody has probably heard is truth is a defense. So if what you say is true, that's a defense. It also matters if you're a public figure or not. Public figures are giving are given less protection by the law because you've put yourself out there as a public figure. And then And
Brett Johnson [:the damage can be much more because of what you say.
Steve Palmer [:Well, you get less protection as a public figure because you have intentionally put yourself out there as a public figure.
Brett Johnson [:Right. But what would you say could hurt more because you're a public figure so you have less protection?
Norm Murdock [:Correct. Right. I guess I'm I'm
Steve Palmer [:Well, I think what they're saying is you you have sort of given up some of your right of privacy because you've chosen to make yourself
Norm Murdock [:a public figure. Right. Right.
Steve Palmer [:That might be the policy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you have it the other side of the coin where in my, say, my private business. So if I if, Norm, you slander me in my business, well, that I get more protection there if it's not true. So it's like that that becomes I don't even have to prove your intent. Right.
Steve Palmer [:It just is. So I always when this is this is why anybody who has ever if you're an employer and you've asked for a reference from another employer and you get an answer like, yes, that person worked here between January February of whatever dates. Yeah. But can you tell me about this person's performance? All I can tell you is that person worked here between January February of whatever date because they don't wanna say anything bad. Yeah. And because they're worried about slander and these other things. So, I look. How does this sort out? It looks to me like Trump is targeted in New York, and this is obviously a Homer, jurisdiction against Trump.
Steve Palmer [:You can do whatever you want in New York, and Trump will lose. And they're trying to bankrupt them. And I don't know what the Court of Appeals in New York will do. These aren't really I don't know if this will filter all the way up to the US Supreme Court or not on some of these First Amendment issues. I'm not familiar with the litigation. But it will be interesting to watch because if you if this can happen to Trump, it can happen to anybody.
Norm Murdock [:It's literally a he said, she said situation.
Steve Palmer [:Now Trump has never done himself any favors with his comments, with his Twitter feed, with his with his, you know, he's never done himself any favors. Right. True. If you call Trump a dummy, he comes over the top, and it it will I always said, he's the guy like, we all knew the guy.
Norm Murdock [:But there's nothing else.
Steve Palmer [:If you get in a if you get in a fight and you go in your car and you get a a tire iron, he's gonna go get a big chain. And if you get your chain, he's gonna get a gun. You get a gun. He's gonna get a bazooka. All I can say,
Norm Murdock [:Steve, is I've never raped anybody. And if a woman came out of nowhere that I either knew beforehand or had just met or maybe never met, and she said she she takes me to court, right, and charges me with sex, some kind of sexual predator kind of thing, civilly. Okay? And then I get on TV, right, and I deny everything, and I'm outraged by it, and I call her a nut.
Steve Palmer [:Right? Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:Why shouldn't I be allowed to do that?
Steve Palmer [:I think you should be allowed to do that.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I mean, I'm calling. I think you should be I think you should
Steve Palmer [:be allowed to do that whether you did it or not. Look. And and then you have the look. You so then, like, you just took a different route.
Norm Murdock [:I don't care that Trump pisses people off. He is allowed to defend himself in the public square.
Steve Palmer [:Well, what I'm saying is he is permitted to piss people off. Absolutely. So what? That invites conflict. And, like, this is, like so and that matters. I'm not so we've got 2 questions. What does the law prevent, and what does the law permit?
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And then how should we behave and conduct ourselves to avoid these kind of problems? Right.
Norm Murdock [:So
Steve Palmer [:I would never blame a woman for being date raped, But you but there is a world where you can avoid putting yourself at at risk position. So I'm not gonna walk down the street holding a stack of money in the middle of the night, in the middle of the city, and then complain that I'm a victim of crime. I'm just not gonna do those things.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:So look. Trump is putting himself out there in a way that he is inviting or he's pissing people off on purpose and inviting a counterattack. I'm not saying that he's wrong in the law, but I'm saying he's not doing himself any favors. He's a fighting attack.
Norm Murdock [:He didn't do anything that she is going defamation until after she sued him.
Steve Palmer [:Well, sure. So, look, if I'm representing Donald Trump in that scenario, and I'm he probably wouldn't have listened to me, but I would say keep your damn mouth shut. You gotta go win this case.
Norm Murdock [:Wish she would. Right. Sure.
Steve Palmer [:Otherwise, you're gonna invite more.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And her and her case was based on she's lost employment because of of the of the defamation. Is that correct?
Steve Palmer [:Well Well, I think she's saying that she's yeah. I don't know what else.
Brett Johnson [:Think of there's such a a an award.
Norm Murdock [:The short answer to Brett's question is yes.
Brett Johnson [:Didn't she say it?
Norm Murdock [:That is that is one of her claims.
Steve Palmer [:The defamation it all like, so all these things also requires specific intent.
Norm Murdock [:Like, you know, I'm public
Steve Palmer [:to do it right.
Norm Murdock [:She published a book. It's a man hate book. She published a book in 2019 called and the title of the book is, what do we need men for? And then she wrote in that book about this alleged encounter with Trump at the department store. The book comes out. Trump says she's a coop. She's a nut. I I don't know this woman. I may have met her once or twice, you know, with 1 of you know, out on the town at a cocktail party, but I don't know I don't know her.
Norm Murdock [:We had no relationship, and this event didn't happen. Then she sued him. And and, you know, if somebody did that to me and I felt like saying she's a nut and I don't know her,
Steve Palmer [:I'd say it too. Think how helpless, though, you become when the standards of justice bend against you, unfairly.
Norm Murdock [:Well, what did the New York legislature do to help her with this case? They passed a law that for 1 year period would open up to people who were beyond the statute of limitation.
Steve Palmer [:To permit it all. Right.
Norm Murdock [:To permit just during this Right. Window Think and she filed her case on day 1 when the window opened.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So think think how this happens. You know, think think what this does when and it's sort of, like, back to my impeachment arguments. Like, you know, be careful because eventually, the devil turns back on you. You know, it's like, if if one side's gonna do it, the other side's gonna do it. If there is no standard this is like this is like when you when people create their own version of truth. So I have my truth, you have your truth. When there is no baseline, when there is no standard, then there is no fairness.
Steve Palmer [:So Steve Because we have to be able to we have to be able build our justice system on some bedrock.
Norm Murdock [:So let me ask you about a possible when this goes up on appeal. What about double jeopardy? The idea that there's a statute of limitations. It had told. It had run. She couldn't sue. Well, the The legislature
Steve Palmer [:It's not double jeopardy because, you know, double I hear you. Double jeopardy is criminal in nature.
Norm Murdock [:So you don't think,
Steve Palmer [:there's a There might be another there might be other problems there. So I look. I'd have to give this some deeper thought, but
Norm Murdock [:What about ex post facto?
Steve Palmer [:It might be an ex post facto law, but they changed the law. It it might be an ex post facto law. But, again, I don't
Norm Murdock [:Just forget.
Steve Palmer [:Have to research whether that requires government action, in a criminal setting. So this is a private action. So you'd we'd like, if you're gonna really dig into this, you're gonna have to dig into the general or the, legislative notes, the history, everything, and, and try to and, look, Trump's got lawyers, I'm sure, doing this. So if if they created a law that only permit that permitted her to sue him
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And that was the sole purpose of it, Now you might arguably have some government action.
Norm Murdock [:Okay.
Steve Palmer [:I don't know.
Norm Murdock [:But that would be good grist for an appeal, you think, maybe. Pretty good. Pretty I mean, the idea that they carved out It's
Steve Palmer [:one of the issues. Right? Is there is there actually a legal cause of action
Norm Murdock [:where you have a clause? Protection. All all other Might
Steve Palmer [:be an equal protection problem. Yeah. Might be a due process problem. Okay. That's one of his issues. The other issues are gonna be truth as a defense or this didn't you know, whatever. Right?
Norm Murdock [:I know. I'm throwing this
Steve Palmer [:at you. You've got but then you've got the amount of damages are are astronomically Come on. Disproportionate to what what's alleged. It's just a Kind of
Brett Johnson [:a big bill, isn't it? Yeah. 83. And, again, where has this number come from?
Steve Palmer [:I don't Just it's just like, we wanna bankrupt the guy.
Brett Johnson [:I I not sure when it's that extreme. Yeah. It isn't it? Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:The jury deliberated for 2 hours. And as
Steve Palmer [:it as it came up with 83 months. Bigger picture problem 2 hours. But eventually, he becomes the victim.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Eventually, he becomes the victim.
Norm Murdock [:They've done that.
Steve Palmer [:And now this is sort of creating a groundswell of support for Trump. Like, hold on a second, guys. This isn't fair. You can't, like, go after the guy, but do it within the bounds of normal fairness and law.
Norm Murdock [:It is election interference. And it it starts to feel that way. That's right. Yeah. It's true. It's just to feel that way. Yeah. True or not?
Steve Palmer [:It starts to feel that way.
Norm Murdock [:Let me bring this other case. Now this came out of California. Now this is criminal, not civil like the Jean Carroll trial. This young lady, I think she's, like, 28, 26, something like that. She's she's in her twenties. Her name is Brynn Speicher or if I may not be pronouncing it right. Brynn Speicher. Brynn Speicher.
Norm Murdock [:And, she got high with her boyfriend, and, pot today is way more potent than it used to be. So, you know, I I I I guess I can understand how you could get blown out of your mind, smoking pot. And she lost her shit and stabbed her boyfriend a 108 times. Mhmm. Killed him, of course. Somebody called the cops. When the cops showed up, they literally had to take the knife out of her hands because she was starting to cut herself. Anyway, she was found guilty.
Norm Murdock [:She was convicted of involuntary homicide. This is the specific California, description. She got no jail time, a 100 hours of community service, and 2 years on probation, and the judge who, decided what the, sentence would be explained that the reason she got no jail time was because she had diminished capacity, and was not responsible, for
Steve Palmer [:Well, look. This is as old as the hills, temporary insanity. And there used to be a there used to be a defense called voluntary intoxication, generally speaking, that you got so wasted you couldn't form the mental mens rea element. So I guess we'll look at it this way. Crime traditional crime in the Western sort of, common law tradition, is you have to have 2 things. You have to have an act called the actus reus, which means the thing. And then you had to have the mental element or what's called the mens reus. So you have to have some degree of intent.
Steve Palmer [:Now the level intent changes depending on the crime, so you have to have less intent, for something like, well, no intent for something like speeding. That it requires 0 intent. It doesn't matter if you meant to do it or not. And then to commit a purposeful crime like murder, you have to have specific intent. I intend to kill you. And then in the to going up and down the line, you have things like negligence, you have recklessness, you have knowingly, and then you have purposely. What what they're looking at is an external factor here. Her mental status at the time of the crime had diminished her ability to establish the mens rea element or the intent element to commit the crime.
Steve Palmer [:Now that can manifest itself in a couple of different ways in the criminal justice system. So look at it. It's like a a sliding scale. Like, on the on the most extreme side for the defense, you could say that's an absolute defense for the crime. So in our in our situation, everybody's heard of temporary insanity, taking away the bond the intoxication part for a second. And then you could slide it all the way to the other side, where it's no defense to the crime. And that just depends on what the legislative branch says. That's the 1st curve.
Steve Palmer [:The other 1 is how does the system treat it? Because the prosecutors have discretion, judges have discretion, prosecutors have discretion in what they're gonna charge. And, you know, you could say, even though we could prove a purposeful murder here because the law would let us, we're not gonna pursue that because there's some mitigating circumstances while they may not be a a defense. We're gonna take that into consideration as we decide what to charge this person with. And then you get it all the way to the judge who takes similar factors into consideration when imposing the sentence. So I don't know the facts here, and I don't know the California law here. But, you know, this is a situation where there was obvious mitigation. She had lost her mind for whatever period of time, committed horrible crimes. It's a hard decision to decide what to do with that person.
Steve Palmer [:Right? So it's like everybody know like, here's the example I use when I talk to juries. Everybody knows as a kid, and we all said this, when you go tell on your brother or your sister or your best friend, everybody everybody's heard a kid, you did that on purpose. You you hit me, and you did it on purpose. And that matters. Right? If you did it on purpose, that matters. Yeah. If you did it by mistake, it's different. If you didn't if it's something else, it's different.
Steve Palmer [:So I can't say anything good or bad about this. I I I don't know. And then the other thing you gotta consider is what's her history? Has she ever done anything wrong? Has she lived a good life? You know, I and maybe the other factor, it's very relevant these days, is what is the victim's family say? Because now our constitution here in Ohio, and I'm sure California, they have amendments or laws that talk about victims' rights. So then on the one hand, you could have the victim's family coming in and saying, not only do I want this person dead, I want him, tortured before he dies. And then on the other side, they could say, look. You hear this in, like, vehicular homicide cases where a best friend kills another in a car. Mhmm. Like, we're praying for him.
Steve Palmer [:We don't blame him. We don't want anything to happen to this guy. We know it was a mistake. You know? And and the swing there would be, like, 10 years or no years.
Norm Murdock [:Wow. Wow. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:So and and so how much do you I wonder I would want to know a few things. What was the evidence that she was completely impaired and out of her mind, and how strong was that? How is it that she consumed the drug? Did she even know that that was the drug laced with something that she didn't know? So So you can maybe take away some of the initial intent to get high. What did the victim's family want out of this? What was her history, her character? How does how she lived her life? And what is the risk that she's gonna do it again? What's the risk of recidivism? What, and do and then then, of course, you've got punishment. How much do we need to punish somebody? So I can't say anything good or bad about it. It just is one of those cases that, is interesting.
Norm Murdock [:So so, Steve, if this happened in Ohio and let's let's, let's substitute alcohol for the marijuana. And now that marijuana's recreational in Ohio, I get that, but and and and we we probably will see a version of this in Ohio. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. But in Ohio. Okay. So a husband gets himself all pissed up, you know, drinking whiskey, and he beats up his wife and she dies.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, you can't just get off because you're drunk. Right? I mean, you know
Steve Palmer [:Well, you can mitigate it, perhaps. It can maybe be mitigated. I mean, I've had a case where somebody was completely Blotto and, there's still some semblance of a involuntary intoxication defense. And it my client didn't didn't walk away, but it helped me re resolve the case for less Okay. Of a punishment. But in your scenario I mean, in this scenario, the one you're talking about in California
Norm Murdock [:No jail time.
Steve Palmer [:Presuming
Norm Murdock [:That's what's killing me.
Steve Palmer [:I'm presuming that there was no passion behind the crime. In other words, there wasn't a fight that made any sense.
Norm Murdock [:Okay.
Steve Palmer [:So if I flip out and I see you as the antichrist attacking me
Norm Murdock [:I see.
Steve Palmer [:And I kill you. Okay. Alright. And say that's without drugs. I just happen to be insane. That would be the defense of insanity. Okay. I plead insanity, or maybe even temporary insanity.
Steve Palmer [:Now, if you and I hate each other and I get drunk and pissed off and beat you to death, well, that's a whole different animus. Right? That's a whole different mens rea. Yeah. Okay. So you need to know facts.
Norm Murdock [:Okay. Yeah. And one little detail, in that case that I didn't write down, but I do remember it now that that you'd brought that up. The was the state's own expert witness, a psychiatrist or a psychologist, I don't know which, but, their expert witness said that she had no capacity, to decide right from wrong.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So the classic insanity test is you don't know right from wrong, and you can't understand the nature and consequences of your actions.
Norm Murdock [:Because she was so high, she was in
Steve Palmer [:another world. Monoton test is for those lawyers out there.
Norm Murdock [:So I guess I guess that testimony coming from the prosecution's own witness.
Steve Palmer [:Now of interest Probably you know? Of interest, the old Jimmy Stewart mover Jimmy Stewart movie with George c Scott, Anatomy of a Murder. Okay? They talk about these these insanity tests. There's, like, it's a temporary insanity case. The guy flips out because his wife is talking to some other guy at a bar or something. Jimmy Stewart, you know, the old sort of salt of the earth fisherman comes along and defends it, and he talks about the monotone test. And, there's 2 different there used to be 2 different insanity tests. 1 was called an irresistible impulse, and the other is you don't understand the con the nature and consequences of your actions. And I think most have, most most states or most jurisdictions sort of have combined some version of that.
Steve Palmer [:So it's like the irresistible impulse is almost gone. So, like, that that would be like, I just couldn't control myself, so I beat you to death. Like, that doesn't quite make you insane anymore. Okay. So there that's all been standardized, and there are experts and psychologists who do these evaluations. They even have standard psychological testing to help the like, tools they use to to sort of you put in data and you spit out a result so they can they can talk about it.
Brett Johnson [:I wanted to add going off on another route.
Steve Palmer [:Sure.
Brett Johnson [:There's been new words added to Dictionary .com.
Norm Murdock [:Oh,
Brett Johnson [:okay. And as we know, new words added to dictionary usually reflect where we've been, where we're going. You know? They were absorbing different things going on. So it's I think it's, like, 300 words, but I picked out a few that I thought were interesting and actually lead to reflect a couple of things we talked about. So the new some new words in the dictionary.com is girl dinner, an often attractively presented collection of snacks that involve little preparations such as small quantities of cold cuts, cheese, fruit, cherry tomatoes deemed sufficient to constitute a meal for 1.
Steve Palmer [:That's a girl dinner.
Norm Murdock [:1. Girl dinner.
Brett Johnson [:Girl dinner. Okay.
Steve Palmer [:Okay.
Brett Johnson [:The next one, range anxiety. The apprehension or fear that an electric vehicle's battery will run out of power before which once intended destination or a charging station. It's for real. Oh, no. That's beautiful. Love this one. So I'm gonna read this is a noun. This is the definition.
Brett Johnson [:The gradual degradation of an online platform or services functionality as part of a cycle in which the platform or service first offers benefits to users to attract them and then pursues more and more profits at the expense of others of of the users. So, basically, an app going away, okay, but they're at trying to pull more money. That is called enshidification. Bed rotting, the practice of spending many hours in bed during the day often with snacks or an electric dev electronic device as a voluntary retreat from activity or stress. Yeah. Apparently, though, this is, the verb form is bed rot. It's despite the negative connotation of rotting, many use the term in a positive way to refer to what they consider a form of self care.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And that's that's right.
Brett Johnson [:Alright. So barbiecore, an aesthetic or style featuring playful pink outfits, accessories, decor, of course, from, you know, Barbie, the movie and such. Squish, an intense feeling of infatuation that is not romantic or sexual in nature, a platonic crush. Now get this. This term is also used in an entirely unrelated way in the context of US politics as a derogatory term for a politician, especially a Republican, who is perceived by members of their own party to as overly moderate or willing to compromise. Wow. Okay? K, keto flu is a temporary feeling of illness or physical unease often experienced by those starting a ketogenic diet, also called a carb flu. Intimate partner violence, acts of violence or abuse within a romantic relationship.
Brett Johnson [:Alright. So there's a term for it, which I think is nice. And lastly, I had to Makes sense. Yeah. So this word, b o o b n e, I'm not sure how you pronounce it. Boobne? I I don't know.
Steve Palmer [:Boobne?
Brett Johnson [:It's a noun. Pimp pimples or a rash in the area of the breasts or on the upper back caused by a bra that shaves not clean or is made of material that is allergenic or not breathable.
Norm Murdock [:So like a combination of of acne and boob.
Brett Johnson [:Boobie. Boobie. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Boobie. I gotcha. Well, look. I propose I propose that we have a word of the day, a new word of the day going forward every week or a new word of the week going forward. So Yeah. Well, look. We've been at it a long time. Probably time to wrap it up.
Norm Murdock [:I think I think in shitification. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, I'll be using that.
Steve Palmer [:I'm I'm crazy. I get it. I'm pretty excited. Good stuff.
Brett Johnson [:These words. Oh my god.
Norm Murdock [:Let let this program never in shitify.
Steve Palmer [:Okay? Indeed. Indeed. Alright. Well, another riveting session of Common Sense right here at the roundtable at Channel five one one. If you want your own podcast, by the way, you can go to channel 5 one one .com, and there's a little calendar you can click on. You can sign up for your spot, and you can come down here and record right where we are, right where Norm sits. If you wanna avoid Norm's spot, Brett, if you don't like any of us or either of those 2, you can sit in mine.
Brett Johnson [:Avoid us out.
Steve Palmer [:Or we'll find a different spot for you, but we can get you recorded sound professionally and get you up in the podcast airwaves with your own show. Brought we are here brought to you, of course, by Harper Plus Accounting. It is that time. It's not too late to call them for your tax needs this season, but you better act quickly because tax season has descended upon those in the accounting world. So we are coming at you time and time again, week in week out, right from the middle, at least until now.
