Shownotes
The Power of Personal Branding - "A personal brand opens the doors you didn't even knock on. It goes ahead of you, it generates referrals, opportunities, invitations. It's the currency for influence, isn't it? And that's what accelerates your program." - Rob Brown
We have a truly special guest. Rob Brown is a global authority in the accounting industry and someone whose journey is as inspiring as it is unconventional. Rob went from being a high school math teacher in Yorkshire, England, to becoming a bestselling author, TEDx speaker, and the host of the Accounting Influence podcast. He’s made a name for himself by helping highly skilled professionals master the power of personal branding and visibility in their careers.
We discuss the importance of building your reputation. Why being technically skilled isn’t enough if you want to stand out, and how intentional networking and authenticity can transform your professional journey.
Rob shares his own story, shaped by his working-class background, what drove him to strike out on his own, and how he discovered the knack for bringing out brilliance in others who may not see it in themselves.
You’ll hear us discuss the hesitations so many of us have around self-promotion, what holds back entrepreneurs and accountants alike, and why making yourself visible in a crowded marketplace doesn’t have to mean being cringey or salesy. Rob offers practical insights you can act on. Whether you’re starting out solo or looking to scale your business and make a bigger impact.
So if you’re ready for an honest, inspiring conversation full of British wit, actionable ideas, and a fresh look at what it takes to build your brand from the inside out, you won’t want to miss this episode.
Empowering Moments
00:00 "Mastering Visibility and Branding"
05:31 From Teaching to Business Success
09:57 Embracing Entrepreneurial Uncertainty
12:41 Choosing Teaching in Northern England
16:13 Education System Fails Entrepreneurs
17:11 Education Lacks Practical Life Skills
21:27 "Teachers' Impact and Humility"
25:44 People Over Companies: Trust Matters
26:59 "Crafting Your Personal Brand"
30:10 Now's the Best Time
34:09 Accountants' Challenge: Balancing Promises
39:09 Find Your Unique Strengths
42:43 Network Building Through Online Outreach
46:34 Define Your Desired Legacy
47:56 Crafting Personal Brand Strategy
52:18 Crafting Thought Leadership Content
54:31 Legacy Focused on Family Happiness
This episode is brought to you by PureTax, LLC. Tax preparation services without the pressure. When all you need is to get your tax return done, take the stress out of tax season by working with a firm that has simplified the process and the pricing. Find out more about how we started.
Top 3 Takeaways for Entrepreneurs & Professionals:
- Your Authentic Brand Starts With You: Before building a public persona, define what you truly want people to say about you. Your reputation is shaped by intentional branding, not by accident.
- Network Intentionally, Not Accidentally: Building relationships isn’t just about showing up; it’s about asking better questions, having meaningful conversations, and nurturing trust that leads to real opportunities.
- Showcase, Don’t Shy Away: If you’re great at what you do, it’s not bragging—it’s “ethical bragging.” Don’t be afraid to shine a light on your strengths and success stories; your future clients will thank you for it.
Accounting Influencers Roundtable Podcast
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Our clients enjoy a proactive partnership with us. Schedule a consultation with us today.
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Glenn Harper, CPA, is the Owner and Managing Partner of Harper & Company CPAs Plus, a top 10 Managing Partner in the country (Accounting Today's 2022 MP Elite). His firm won the 2021 Luca Award for Firm of the Year.
An entrepreneur and speaker, Glenn transformed his firm into an advisory-focused practice, doubling revenue and profit in two years. He teaches entrepreneurs to build financial and operational excellence, speaks nationwide to CPA firm owners about running their businesses like entrepreneurs, and consults with firms across the country. Glenn enjoys golfing, fishing, hiking, cooking, and spending time with his family.
Julie Smith, MBA, is a serial entrepreneur in the public accounting space. She is the Founder of EmpowerCPA™, Founder of PureTax, LLC, COO for Harper & Company CPAs Plus, and Co-host of the Empowering Entrepreneurs podcast.
Named CPA.com's 2021 Innovative Practitioner of Year, Julie led Harper & Company's transition to an advisory-focused firm, doubling revenue and profit in two years. She now empowers other CPA firm owners nationwide through consulting and speaking, teaching them how to run their businesses like entrepreneurs. Julie lives in Columbus, OH with her family and enjoys travel, coaching basketball, sporting events, and the occasional shopping spree.
Copyright 2026 Glenn Harper
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/
Transcripts
Hello, everyone. Welcome to another edition, the Empowering Entrepreneurs podcast. I'm Glenn Harper.
Julie Smith [:Julie Smith.
Glenn Harper [:What's going on, Julie?
Julie Smith [:You know, I kind of want to know. We were just talking about it. How many states have you been to in the United States?
Glenn Harper [:Not all of them. And I'm very disappointed that I'm not, but it's on the list.
Julie Smith [:I feel like I got to put it on my to do list now is to count so that I have that knowledge.
Glenn Harper [:My uncle goes and finds the highest point in every state and he's got them all but like four.
Julie Smith [:Oh, wow. Well, that's an interesting thing.
Glenn Harper [:That's an interesting thing to do. No jacket today must have been hot.
Julie Smith [:Well, so yeah, I ran out of the office without and then remembered halfway here. But for timing reasons, that's all right. Our poor guest gets just the short sleeve version.
Glenn Harper [:Show off the guns. It's all good. Well, we've got a great guest lined up today. I'd like to introduce you Rob Brown, the number one global voice and accounting influence. Not because of his English accent, but because he has impacted the accounting branding space in a global way. He is the host of the Accounting Influence podcast, author of the bestselling book build you'd reputation, TEDx speaker, and former high school math teacher. If after this podcast, Rob doesn't provide an inspiration for you to take a chance to achieve your dream of being an entrepreneur extraordinaire and teach others along the way, well, you just weren't paying attention. He has mastered being an influencer in the accounting space.
Glenn Harper [:Lord knows all of us being counters need to master this skill. Rob is fond of saying technical skills only get you so far. You have to be visible to others to make an impact. Knowing that studying about a topic is fine, but living the topics is where you teach. That you teach is way more satisfying. Even though he is from Robin Hood's hometown of Nottingham, United Kingdom, he does not believe you have to explicitly steal from the rich to give to the poor. He believes that branding oneself in a way to entice the people with money to want to pay you money to help them solve what other problems or opportunities they might have sometime. Somehow his wife and two kids put up with his passion for helping accountants.
Glenn Harper [:A thankless job, no doubt. But since he is an acclaimed musician with with no stage fright, he can make enough noise to ensure that they can appreciate what a good husband and father is. The global marketplace has made his services coveted by all who need to stand out in the ever changing marketplace of accounting. Rob, it's joy to have you on the show and look forward to talking to you and deciphering your knowledge today.
Rob Brown [:That is some intro to live up to. And you almost read it. Word perfect, Glenn. So congratulations.
Glenn Harper [:I did do a little artistic liberty on the quote.
Rob Brown [:I can see that. Yes. Well, you've certainly set a very high bar on the expectations, but let's see how perfect.
Glenn Harper [:Well, I think the big question that we all want to know is it says you grew up in Nottingham in the United Kingdom, but can you tell us Americans, what's the difference between Great Britain, United Kingdom, England, Scotland, Ireland and Northern Ireland? What term do we use to reflect on all those things we know? We have no idea.
Rob Brown [:It does confuse a lot of us here.
Glenn Harper [:Yes.
Rob Brown [:So the United Kingdom contains people that are under the king. So our king rules over England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, but it's Northern Ireland. So Southern Ireland, of which Dublin is the capital, is not part of the United Kingdom. Got it. So that's the way I would understand. The capital of Northern Ireland is Belfast. The capital of Scotland is Edinburgh, the capital of Wales is Cardiff, and the capital of England is London. And so we've got these four states.
Rob Brown [:When you include Great Britain, that would include all of Ireland. And the United Kingdom just has. Is kind of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Julie Smith [:Who knew at the age of 40 I was going to get a geography lesson here?
Rob Brown [:Well, there you go. Yeah. If you. If we're fighting against the Americans, then we're all united. But if we're against each other, then England hates Scotland and Wales hates Ireland and everything else.
Glenn Harper [:It's complicated. And don't bring religion into it because then it's a whole nother thing. But that's. Well, thanks for explaining that, because I think most people don't understand how that works. And so that was the most important thing I wanted to talk about to begin with.
Rob Brown [:Well, I do need to correct you on something. You said I grew up in Nottingham and I didn't. So we're very fiercely protective of where we grew up.
Glenn Harper [:Where'd you grow up at?
Rob Brown [:I'm in Yorkshireman. So I grew up in a place called Hull in the north of England in a county called Yorkshire. And we're very proud of our northern roots. And Nottingham is in the Midlands, so it's a band across the middle. So they say the posher you are, the more south you go. So I married a woman that was a little bit posher than me. So I'm. I'm venturing towards the south and becoming more middle Class as we speak.
Rob Brown [:But, but the north is rather working class.
Glenn Harper [:Okay, so you're moving on up.
Julie Smith [:You're gonna have to get with Google and get them to update that because socially mobile.
Glenn Harper [:Yes, that's it. And I made, made an assumption of where he's from just because that's where he is. And you know, most people just kind of stay where they're at, but that's that. Awesome. So growing up where you did in the working class family was your parents, were they entrepreneurs? Were they working for the man? How did that work? Because I know it's probably a little different than here, but not too much.
Rob Brown [:Well, my mom was a house mom and my dad was a marine. So no, we weren't entrepreneurs. It didn't run in the family. I got a degree in teaching and I was a high school math teacher for a few years. I lived in Hong Kong for four and the UK for four. And so I did it for eight years. But I felt in the end I was just coaching kids to pass tests. There's a lot of that around, right.
Rob Brown [:So I, I planned my route out. I took a master's in HR and thought I just teach you, what am I good for. I've always been able to communicate and hold a crowd if you like. If you can teach algebra to a a room full of 16 year olds at 4 o' clock on a Friday afternoon, then that's probably the hardest audience you'll ever get. But I morphed into running my own business. I got a job selling private medical insurance and that cut my teeth on the world of networking and referrals and building a book of business and getting customers for what I did. And in the end I found that I enjoyed that a lot more. I was always intrigued by why some people got chosen, hired, engaged, invested in, recommended over others, even though perhaps they weren't as good.
Rob Brown [:And so that led me to, I started my own business and Cheek Chin ended up being technically super smart people. You guys, accountants, bankers, lawyers, architects, surveyors, brains the size of the moon, but not particularly socially confident and a little bit awkward. They don't network well, they don't walk into a room well, they don't sell themselves well, they don't brand themselves well, they just feel that their technical abilities are enough. And I found I had a skill for getting over to these technically smart people. Not only that it was important to build a reputation, but that there were really easy ways to do it that played to their strengths. And so yeah, I'm a first generation entrepreneur and Essentially, I'm unemployable.
Glenn Harper [:That's correct.
Julie Smith [:Wait, wait, wait. I want to talk about something that you said that I think is really important, and that's building a brand. How did you come up with at such a young age that you needed a brand?
Rob Brown [:Well, I wasn't young when I came into this game. I finished teaching when I was 35.
Julie Smith [:Wait, I think that's young. What are you talking about?
Glenn Harper [:That's ancient. That's ancient.
Julie Smith [:I'm kidding.
Rob Brown [:Probably 75% of CPAs are actually at or close to retirement age. So we're talking about a profession that is very elderly. So I'm still fairly young. However, yes, I came to it late. You hear a lot of entrepreneurs now, they don't go to university. Straight out of the gate. 16, 17, 18, they're on it. And some of your clients will be like that.
Rob Brown [:But generally, the move from being employed, the paycheck, the healthcare, the security, to going out on your own is a big leap. And the certain things have got to be in place in your mind as much as your life to make that work. And so many people don't make it as, you know.
Glenn Harper [:So when you were younger, do you have any siblings?
Rob Brown [:Yes, I have a younger sister. My brother, sadly, has died. My younger brother, massive heart attack when he was 38. And that's really sad. But yeah, they are in. They were in employed jobs as well. So I was pretty much the black sheep. I was the one that traveled the world.
Rob Brown [:I was the one that went out on my own and annoyed my mother because she loved it when I was a teacher, she could tell her friends exactly what I did.
Glenn Harper [:Correct.
Rob Brown [:But now it's very difficult for my mom to describe. As for many entrepreneurs, what do you do? Well, how long have you got? It's not like an accountant. It's not like a lawyer. It's difficult, isn't it?
Glenn Harper [:It is. So it's interesting how we're always curious entrepreneurs, some of them are just born that way, right. They're just like, they don't want to be told what to do. They want to do it their way. And other people have to go through working for somebody and getting beat down or just realize they can do it better and they want to go do something else. Which way would you think you were? Were you a natural or did you just kind of. The epiphany hit you?
Rob Brown [:That's a really good question. I was forced into going it on my own. I was in a job where I. I knew exactly what I was Doing every morning, Tuesday morning at 10 o' clock would be year nine maths, for instance. And I knew where I was. And then my life was run by a timetable. And almost like accountants, you are ran by the schedule, by the calendar, and you, you bill in six, ten minute increments. And it's, it's like that, it's very regimented.
Glenn Harper [:Don't depress.
Rob Brown [:I'm sorry.
Glenn Harper [:Don't depress me. The billable hour.
Rob Brown [:Let's go there. No. So I had to make a conscious decision to say I can live without the security for my own peace of mind. And a lot of entrepreneurs, if they are starting off employed, they do have to make that leap of I've got to let go of my security blanket, I've got to give up the security, the salary, the pension, the check, everything else, and I've got to be ready to fail. Now, I had a wife that we relied on her salary for some time because in my sales job, there were months when I didn't earn anything at all. And you've got to be ready for that because there's a lot of failure in entrepreneurship. A lot of your clients are your listeners.
Julie Smith [:We call it pivoting.
Glenn Harper [:We don't use the F word. You can't use that. It's a pivot.
Julie Smith [:So you don't think. Growing up, did you do anything entrepreneurial, though? I feel like you, you didn't sell rocks or lemonade or.
Rob Brown [:No, I wasn't that guy. I had a paper round, so I would put papers through people's doors at 14, 15. But that's not entrepreneurial. I'm still working for the man and getting my $2 for my couple of hours on a Sunday morning as it was back then.
Julie Smith [:How did you get through college? Just curious, did you, did you do anything?
Rob Brown [:I did a teaching degree and I was a bouncer at a local nightclub because I've got a black belt and kickboxing.
Glenn Harper [:So hold on a second, let me just see if I got this straight. We got a teacher, accountant, kicksboxer. That is awesome. I mean, that's a unique combination.
Julie Smith [:I'm glad I asked.
Rob Brown [:Well, I didn't get my black belt and kickboxing until just before I was 50 years old. But back in the day I did judo, so I was used to the martial arts. And a rugby player. That's big here too, so I knew how to look after myself. But the thing is, in England particularly, we don't have guns and I have two daughters. So rather than being the protective father, showing Prospective boyfriends, his gun collection or his knife collection. I make sure my daughters say this is my dad. And by the way, he's a black belt in kickboxing.
Rob Brown [:And that's the best that I can do to put these boys on notice.
Glenn Harper [:There's nothing better than cleaning your gun when your daughter's boyfriend shows up. It's. It's the best neutralizer there is. But a judo master would be pretty good too.
Rob Brown [:Well, I've had in Columbus, Ohio, you get boys like that that need to see the gun.
Glenn Harper [:That's exactly right. They got it. Well, they have one too. You just gotta make sure it's a little bigger.
Rob Brown [:Guns. Crazy. Crazy.
Glenn Harper [:So here you are, you're in the working class neighborhood, you're doing your thing and then you decide to go to school I guess is the plan. You're like going to go to college and I think you went off to Leeds Beckett. Is that true?
Rob Brown [:Yeah, it's a college university in the north of England to study to be a teacher. And I was 23 when I decided I'd take had a few dead end jobs. And like many young people, you don't quite know what to do with your life. Accountants are slightly different. Your world that I deal in a lot, you've got a handle on the numbers pretty early and you know kind of the direction you want to go. But no, I was one of those where I thought I knew everything at 20 and I really knew nothing. So I decided I would go into teaching. I always loved school.
Rob Brown [:I enjoyed it. It was a good environment for me. I loved learning. So I took my bachelor's in education and came out at 27 and taught for eight years from there. And it's a good life. It's a noble profession. It's a safe profession. It is a job for life if you want it.
Rob Brown [:But there was always something staring inside me a little bit. Like there was always something that forced me to travel. I wanted to get beyond my hometown, the working class growing up, I wanted.
Glenn Harper [:To see the world is your family.
Rob Brown [:Entrepreneurs are built like that. They want a little bit more. They don't want to be confined to somebody else's game and somebody else's rules.
Glenn Harper [:Did your parents and grandparents where they grew up? In the same town that you did then in Holland North. Okay. So they never left. Right. You're the only one that left. So geez, I did leave. Yeah.
Rob Brown [:Like my daughter's one of my daughters. She's studying in North Carolina right now and she's having the US University experience so she's a little bit like her dad in wanting to get out there and. And try new things.
Julie Smith [:What's she studying?
Rob Brown [:Criminal justice. Her ideal job would be working in the FBI or the CIA as a criminal intelligence analyst.
Glenn Harper [:What school is she going to?
Rob Brown [:She's at East Carolina University.
Julie Smith [:Glenn, we don't want anyone to be able to find me.
Glenn Harper [:Oh, I don't think they're gonna look for her. She's with the FBI. They know better. She's protecting her.
Julie Smith [:When did you meet her?
Rob Brown [:Hopefully, Donald Trump will allow her to study a little bit longer because she's got another year or two.
Glenn Harper [:Oh, she'll make it happen.
Julie Smith [:When did you meet your wife?
Rob Brown [:We met at a gym.
Julie Smith [:On your travels in your hometown?
Rob Brown [:No, it's in my hometown of Hull. And I was mid-30s. My clock was ticking. I traveled the world. I was coming back home, and I was looking for a wife. I wasn't just looking for a girlfriend. I was looking for a wife. I was very specific, which actually puts a lot of pressure on your first date.
Julie Smith [:Yeah.
Glenn Harper [:Did you. Did you do, like. Was she fighting in the gym, too, and you guys had to do a competition so you could win a date?
Rob Brown [:No, she was minding her own business on the treadmill, and I. I bothered her. As a matter of fact. She won't mind me saying this. Amanda. She was married when I met her, but she was going through a separation, and so I met her in the March. We had our first date in the March, and she divorced in the September. I asked her to marry me in the October, and we were married the following February.
Rob Brown [:So talk about out of the frying pan, into the fire.
Glenn Harper [:You must have had what we call a rapist wit and a great physique to woo her away. So you did good.
Rob Brown [:Well, yes. So let's go with that.
Glenn Harper [:Yes, it works out good. Well, so you were at the Beckett University, but then at some point said you went to Marist College in New York. Is that true?
Rob Brown [:Well, Marist College. No, that's in whole two.
Glenn Harper [:That's hole two. Okay.
Julie Smith [:Google, it's really killing him today.
Glenn Harper [:I know, man.
Rob Brown [:You're really doing your research here, Glenn.
Glenn Harper [:Well, Google is failing me royally. Maybe I spelled it wrong, but you know what?
Rob Brown [:We've all got a journey. We all hit school. And when I talk to entrepreneurs, as you guys do a lot, a lot of your clients, it's the people that don't do well at school, and not particularly academic, that end up sailing their own ship. And they're very Equipped to do so because they're resilient. They've been in an academic environment that didn't serve them. And I'm a big believer now that education's not fit for purpose. It doesn't teach the skills that young people need to know to survive in real life. So we could go there if you want.
Rob Brown [:But I think entrepreneurs are a red breed.
Glenn Harper [:Right. I think that's the challenge that we're having in the United States as well, is the education system is not giving us skills to survive. The current marketplace, Right. Where they're teaching us tasks, I mean.
Julie Smith [:I have to ask Alexa to do my 11 year old's math.
Glenn Harper [:Yeah, it's.
Julie Smith [:And I should be able to complete that, I feel.
Glenn Harper [:Yeah, just not fair. So you, are you guys ahead of that curve in UK or are you behind us?
Rob Brown [:No, we're behind, just like you guys are. We still teach Shakespeare and what relevance is that to real life? We don't teach financial literacy, we don't teach how to balance a budget, we don't teach how to read a credit card statement and understand what interest is. We don't teach about taking out a loan, we don't teach about managing a household. There's a lot of. We don't teach people skills, we don't teach branding skills and selling skills and running a business. And all kinds of things are not on the curriculum. Instead we teach geography and history and algebra and pythagoras and trigonometry. And the kids used to say to me, sir, why are we learning about right angle triangles? How is this going to help me in life? And I didn't have an answer then, I don't have one now.
Rob Brown [:The curriculum, he's not fit for purpose. And here's the kicker. Not only are we not teaching kids that are coming out of school in five years the right stuff, but the curriculum is so set that we're teaching them things that weren't relevant 10 years ago and 20 years ago. And we're so far behind that. But it's so set in its ways that there's no wonder more and more people are turning to sailing their own shit, being an entrepreneur, trying something for themselves. And you guys will know there's a low bar to entry right now. You can start a business with an Internet connection these days.
Glenn Harper [:That's it. Chad, GPT. You need a qualification that rates your whole business plan. It's unbelievable.
Julie Smith [:I'm curious, when you were teaching math, did you enter in some of those things that kind of felt like they should Be in school or did you follow the curriculum to a T?
Rob Brown [:I'll give you an example, Julie, of how I did something close to that. I. They would have their maths, their math exercise book, but I also went to the store cupboard and got them a lifebook. And I would come out with little quotes that I liked and little bits of wisdom and little stories. And I'd get them to write maybe a couple of minutes a lesson, just something that I thought would help them in life.
Glenn Harper [:Did you get in trouble for that?
Rob Brown [:No. I know I didn't tell anybody that. And I would keep that book in the classroom. So I'd hand it out. I'll. Every lesson they'd write something in, it'd come back, and then at the end of each semester, they could take the book home.
Julie Smith [:I'm curious if you have any feedback of students that have found you now or whenever that was, that could comment on that.
Rob Brown [:And that would be really difficult because.
Julie Smith [:Well, I didn't know if anybody reached out and said this was a really impactful, impactful, you know, like you put me on a different path because you made me think differently or possibly, possibly.
Rob Brown [:I've changed my name three times.
Glenn Harper [:Nice.
Julie Smith [:Oh, man.
Rob Brown [:So I'm not.
Julie Smith [:No wonder your Google was wrong.
Rob Brown [:I was born Robert Nelson. That was my family name, but my father was an alcoholic and this might speak to the entrepreneurial not submitting well to authority thing. So drinking was a problem for him and I disowned him when I was 18 and changed my name and I changed it to the most. I was going out with a girl called Elaine Mansour and I loved her name. We broke up, but I said, can I use your name? And she said, what for? I said, because I don't want the one I've got. So she said, sure. And I changed it, changed the spelling on it, made it my own. And for what would it be? 20 years, I was Rob Mansour.
Rob Brown [:M A double N S E U R. Rob Mansour. And I liked that I graduated with that name. It was on my driving license, my passport, everything else. And then my mom remarried a guy called Alan Brown. And to honor him taking on three teenage kids, I changed my name to Brown. So I've only been brown for 20, 25 years. And yeah, so my kids might know me as Mr.
Rob Brown [:Mansour back in the day, but not all of them will know me as Mr. Brown. So, yeah, they could find me on LinkedIn. My teaching history is there. However, kids get on with their own lives. I'll give an Example of how humbling it is. When I Left teaching in 2000, the class I had, my tutor group, my form class, if you like, that I registered every day. Oh, sir, you're the best teacher we've ever had.
Rob Brown [:We'll never forget you. And then a couple of weeks later, after I finished, I went into school to collect some things. None of them said hello to me as much as you have this notion that you want to change people's lives, and you will be the guy, the person, the mentor, the stepping stone, the shining light. Kids move on very quickly. So I'm humble about that. You just got to point them in the right direction and let them go.
Glenn Harper [:Well, you know, it's. In every, every industry, clients are the same way. They, they love you until they don't. Right? And it's, It's. It's hard in certain professions where you feel like you have a really strong relationship, but at the end of the day, it comes down to, you know, the service, the price, all the things. And so you got to continually build that value. Right? And even with that, they still might leave you for somebody else.
Rob Brown [:Well, how in your game, Julie, let me ask you this. How much is your business dependent on people liking you? Because you're very engaging, you're very passionate. You're obviously great at what you do.
Julie Smith [:I mean, can I record that and take that back to the people at the office?
Glenn Harper [:We're editing this out. This is a big edit.
Rob Brown [:People will buy you, right, Julie? They'll buy you because they like you. They get you, you get them. You're on a wavelength. And you being technically good at what you do is a given because everybody is. So there's a personal element to that, isn't there?
Julie Smith [:Absolutely.
Glenn Harper [:I mean, you have to be likable. And then they assume with whatever letters you have to have your name, that you're capable, and then you got to deliver. Right? And there's a high standard for any professional out there, and same with yourself, that you have a standard. This is what you want to achieve for you and your clients. And if you deliver on that, you should be just fine.
Rob Brown [:When you mentioned likability, Glenn, that is a precursor to trust. Now, trust is currency in, in the accounting game, and it's very difficult to trust people that you don't like.
Glenn Harper [:Correct.
Rob Brown [:So it creates an affinity, it creates a bond, it creates a vulnerability that you're willing to be open around someone that you like because there's banter, there's that you. You'll share stuff, and that creates Trust. Trust for accountants particularly, is built up in the conversations that have nothing to do with business. You guys will have clients you can talk to for 15, 20 minutes, and it's nothing to do with business.
Julie Smith [:This is why Glenn tells me he has to go golf.
Glenn Harper [:It's important. You'll learn a lot about somebody on the golf course. Well, you know, I think that ties back into, like, what you do for a living. Part of it for accountants is that the stereotype we have been. Jill and I have been trying to break this stereotype for 10 years now of what people think an accountant is, which is similar to this look versus with what we really do, is way different than what people think. And to your point about how do you give your brand or how do you say what you do? It's really challenging because it's not a three sentence or two sentence thing. It is a dissertation of what we actually do for somebody. And it's really hard to communicate that.
Glenn Harper [:And I think Collins just say, the heck with it, I give it up, hang up my shingle. I'm a cpa. You know what I do, and just, we just do it without anybody knowing. But I feel like what you're telling about the brand is really the key. Like, we got to let people know that. Why do we stand out and do something, you know, that they would resonate with?
Julie Smith [:Well, and I do think that's something that this industry struggles with, is building a brand. I don't know how many, you know, now we're on a soapbox, but I don't know how many firms I go into, and they don't even understand that their name is their brand. Right. Like, there's no concept of that. So I think you've done a really good job of building your brand. Can you give an insight maybe into our. To our listeners about how did you go about that? How did you do that?
Rob Brown [:Well, there's so much in what you've just said. People trust people more than they trust companies. There's something called the Edelman Trust Barometer, which measures trust around the world in various institutions. So trust in the government and politics is at an all time low. Trust in the media is at an all time low. Fake news. We don't trust what we hear. Trust in corporations, trust in big companies, trust in the education system, trust in the judicial system.
Rob Brown [:So people have come to lean into people rather than companies. If you need a plumber or a trades person or an accountant, you will go to your friends and say, who do you recommend? I need this particularly in professional services that you're in. So trust is important. And the people branding is important. And I, I spend my life now doing two things. One is helping the brand of accounting. You talk about how difficult that is to get over to people, the difference that you make and the kind of things you do beyond your job title, but empowering accountants as well to, to go beyond their job title and their role and make it come to life. And the problem with accounting, for instance, is there are less people taking accounting majors now than there should be because we're not selling it well enough.
Rob Brown [:It's a great profession, it's a noble profession, but people aren't going into teaching, people aren't going into accounting like they used to. So that's been devalued. We can talk a lot about building your reputation. So your personal brand is. Well, let's just give you a model. You asked me how I do it. Think of three circles. So in the middle is the inner circle, is your character, what your principles, what you stand for, what you're all about, what you truly believe in.
Rob Brown [:Then your personal brand is wrapped around that. And that's all the outward manifestations of everything that's on the inside. So it's the way you look, the way you talk, the clothes you wear, the website you have, your LinkedIn profile, everywhere that someone comes into contact with you or your name, That's a personal branding message. It allows people to make an opinion or a perception of you, including the perception that they don't know you or to do nothing or they're indifferent. So if you can be more intentional with the messages you're putting out there, your thought leadership, your content, the way you show up on social media, the way you are when you're networking, all of these touches with the outside world that then forms your reputation, which is the outside circle. And the reputation is what people think about you or say about you when they come into contact with all of these personal branding messages on all these outward manifestations. So the question becomes, can you make people love you? Can you make people like you? Can you make people think that you're great? Not always. Some people are going to hate you, Glenn, because you're not wearing a tie.
Rob Brown [:Some people are going to love you because you're not wearing a tie. And that's not on you. That's just people. But you can influence how people think about you and talk about you by doing certain things and just be more intentional with the kind of brand that you want to build. And I work with accountants that really push hard against this because they don't like bragging. It, it's too much for them. It's too cringy, it's too salesy, it's too pitchy. They didn't get into that.
Rob Brown [:They preferred their work to do it for themselves. And a lot of entrepreneurs are quite shy, too. They're not all extroverts and they don't sell themselves particularly well. But as Muhammad Ali said, you remember the boxer, he said, it ain't bragging if you've done it. Now, he was champion of the world. So if you are great at your job, that we call this ethical bragging. You have every right to talk about it with pride, to talk about it with passion, and you have a responsibility to communicate it in a way that people get it and they understand it. So there's a million different ways for an accountant to say, I'm an accountant and I make a difference.
Rob Brown [:You've got questions, Glenn.
Glenn Harper [:You know, it's funny because if I am, any of us are going to be an entrepreneur and I'm a solopreneur and I'm only going to build myself and do what I need to be busy to do what I do, right? I'm going to do my task, my profession, and I'm going to be, I don't want to say artificially, but I have a limit on what I can accomplish, right? Because it's only me. When you decide that you're going to grow and be a business owner, be an entrepreneurial business investor, if you will, and have a company that run that you run now, that branding is even more crucial, right? Because now you got to get other people to come with you to be in your organization and, or. And then you got to get clients that aren't necessarily going to be talking to just you. So I think, when do you recommend somebody gets that brand? When they're just small, as a solopreneur, or when they make that transition or when is their ideal time?
Rob Brown [:There's no ideal time. I'm minded of the book by Doug McKay, who wrote Swim with the Sharks and he had a phrase, dig your well before you're thirsty. So you ask, when is the best time? Today. There's a lovely story I like to tell about the Chinese emperor that was obviously very rich and he ordered his gardeners to create this lavish garden. And it took them three years and he told them what he wanted and he came out after three years to inspect what they'd done. And they're obviously really proud to show it off. But he said to them, I did ask you for a row of cedar trees to be built along this path. They said, well, emperor cedar trees take thousands of years to grow.
Rob Brown [:And he said, well, let's plant them now. So it is that idea of diggy. Well, before you thirsty, build your network before you need it. You said it. Well, Glenn, when you're an entrepreneur and you're just on your own, you need to get a couple of customers, clients. You can do it without ever meeting anybody. You can do it online with a bit of social media, but you get to the point where you need to scale or you need to grow. So now you've got to attract investment, you've got to attract staff, you've got to attract bigger clients, you've got to be bold enough to do business on better terms.
Rob Brown [:You've got to get people to buy into your vision and what you're trying to build. And that requires a whole new level of personal branding. Because again, people are buying you, they're buying your passion, they're buying your vision. They're not coming with you necessarily for a paycheck. So if you're not intentional with that, then you build a brand by accident or you don't build a brand at all.
Glenn Harper [:It's funny how most people, they're focused when they start their business, they're focusing on doing the thing that's gonna give them the, you know, give them a paycheck, whatever that product or service is. But like you said, defining who you are, what you wanna be, how you wanna do things, I mean, you're probably implicitly doing it somehow, but you're not explicitly putting it out there for your brand. So other people can see it. We know what we're doing internally, but nobody else can see that. Right? So that is probably the key here is to what you are thinking you're doing. You got to put it out there so other people can see it. Right?
Julie Smith [:But I think we ask him, how does one do that?
Glenn Harper [:Right, well, deep thought.
Rob Brown [:Well, it starts with a strong enough why you've got to want to do it. There are loads of great accountants that just want to be locked in a dark room with an Internet connection and a spreadsheet. You know, those horrible and. And good luck to them. That's great, that's much needed. I fear for them. With AI and automation and everything else, however, that's a different conversation. You are in a crowded, competitive market.
Rob Brown [:Everybody is. Every entrepreneur that enters a market, you see, they're a mature market. There's already providers in there. There are people doing it. So you've got to overcome this tyranny of choice. So if you talk about building a personal brand, you've got to have a strong enough reason. And the reason is I cannot afford to Anonymous. I cannot afford to be a well kept secret.
Rob Brown [:I cannot afford to hide my light under a bushel as the Bible says. So in the tyranny of choice says in a crowded competitive market, when I need what you do, why should I come to you above and beyond all the other choices I've got, including the choice to do nothing? That's the tyranny of choice. And in any crowded competitive market, a personal brand is how you stand out. It's really hard to differentiate a product or a service. It comes down to people buying you and everything you stand for because your resume, your credentials, your offering is probably going to look and sound like everyone else's. So I say a personal brand opens the doors you didn't even knock on. It goes ahead of you, it generates referrals, opportunities, invitations. It's the currency for influence, isn't it? And that's what accelerates your program.
Glenn Harper [:But isn't it funny? I'm going to speak to accountants because I feel like I know them pretty well. Accountants always say yes, right? Because we're natural helpers, we want to help people. And one of the biggest challenges I think as accountants and a little bit myself, but not so much these days, but still there a little bit, is that we don't want to over promise and under deliver. So we feel like if we put our brand out there too much and we're so awesome, we're going to get all this work that we can't deliver on and then we're going to be like in this cycle, like, well, what did I just build here? I can't even service it. But I think it's probably like that in any business, right? Where I always like to tell clients like you say yes and then figure it out later. Right? But it's a little different in our industry, right?
Rob Brown [:Well, when you're hungry and you're early in your career, the answer is yes. What's the question? We say yes to anything. Whether you're an accountant or an entrepreneur, you'll take on stuff that's probably unsuitable for you. However, you're growing and you're young and you're green and you're game and you're open. However, when you get older or more experienced or more successful, it's what you say no to. That often defines you more than what you say yes to. I remember a quote from Richard Branson. He said, when I first started, I'd say yes to everything.
Rob Brown [:Every pitch, every opportunity, every investment thing, every play I'd say yes to. Now I'll say yes to one opportunity in 25. And I thought, that's interesting, isn't it? It's what he's saying no to that's defining him and makes him even more focused on what he's saying yes to. Accountants, you're right. They don't like saying no. It's a noble profession. They are really helpful. And we saw that a lot during COVID where accountants became more than just financial advisors, and they became counselors and therapists and psychiatrists and shoulders to cry on and superheroes without the capes, helping businesses keep the lights on.
Rob Brown [:But did they brag about that? Did they big that up? Did they take advantage of that? No, they didn't. So a lot of what accountant does is unseen. And if they're not going to shout about it, who will? And to your audience, entrepreneurs are like that. They don't back themselves enough. When you ask the question, why you? Why should I work with you? They don't have a good answer to that. They can't fully differentiate between themselves and everything else that's out there. If you're bold, you can say, well, the big advantage of working with me is that you get me. Okay, yeah, but what does getting you mean? And they can't get beyond that because there's a lot of good egocentric entrepreneurs out there that will back themselves.
Rob Brown [:Okay, that's great, but then why you? What does getting you give me that I'm not getting anywhere else? And beyond the personality, you've still got to deliver.
Julie Smith [:And I feel like entrepreneurs as a whole, they have a lot of internal dialogue that they're too afraid to say out loud, right? So I think most entrepreneurs believe in themselves. They have to tell themselves a lot of positive affirmations every day to get out the door, to get the beat down, you know, to do it again, day and day. But for whatever reason, whatever they're telling themselves is a really hard time communicating.
Rob Brown [:And that's all of us, isn't it? How many accountants will say, I'm not going to put something on LinkedIn because I don't know what people will say, or, I'm not going to appear on that podcast or do that video or put out that piece of content because I'm scared of what people say? And we've all Got that internal dialogue, haven't we? That inner voice that. What do they call it? Imposter syndrome. There's a bit of that in all of us. I have heard that you'll have 95,000 thoughts today and 94,990 of them will be the same as yesterday. Because we are creatures of habit and routine and regime, aren't we? So what is changing? Who are you getting around? What's influencing you? What's penetrating your life in a new way? We. We make the same decisions, we wear the same clothes, we talk to the same people, we watch the same stuff. Shaking things up. Entrepreneurs are better than that.
Rob Brown [:Most. But everything you're feeding yourself on is, is giving you that power to, to get beyond yourself and, and be a little bit more brave.
Glenn Harper [:Which is why everybody needs to leave home and travel a little bit to see what the rest of the world looks like. Because you don't know unless you experience it right?
Rob Brown [:Well, there is that, but not everyone is wired like that. And this is one of my key messages, is there. There are a million ways to build a personal brand. And not everyone can be Glenn, and not everyone can be Julie. And I said, don't be like me. My pastor at church recently said, how. What would church be like if everyone was like you? And my instinct was church would be brilliant. That would be great because we'd get shit done, things would be really organized, people would speak their mind, there'd be no hidden agendas.
Rob Brown [:And then I thought, wait a minute, who's going to be that caring pastoral person that prays for others and sits with them and really listens? Who's going to make the tea and coffee? Who's going to do the kids work, who's going to play in the band? And there's all of these other roles. So the key lesson here is don't try and copy someone else. Accountants are classic example. They'll be told, you've got to be a rainmaker, you've got to win business, you've got to get out there, you've got to press the flesh, you've got to shake hands, you've got to go to networking events, you've got to be seen. And because they've seen a partner doing that and building that book of business and building that reputation, they can't be like them. There are a hundred different ways to network without going to events. You can network on LinkedIn and build a great business and not even have to meet anybody. So I say to people, what are your weapons? What are your Strengths.
Rob Brown [:What are the stuff you really enjoy? And the way Julie does it is going to be different to the way Glenn does it and different to the way Rob does it. Not everyone loves to travel. Not everyone loves speaking in public. Not everyone loves writing. Not everyone loves music or magic, whatever it is, because God wired us all up differently. You've got to say, right, what am I playing with here? What are my strengths? What are my weapons? What am I good at? What are my tools? And let me build a brand around that, because that's much more authentic, isn't it, than everyone trying to be Julie or everyone trying to be Glenn. I mean, that shirt you're wearing, Glenn, there's not many men can carry off pink like that, but you are.
Glenn Harper [:I am on the cutting edge, very low on fashion. But. But I try really hard. But somebody over here to my left really helps me with that.
Rob Brown [:But my daughters would say, that's a sleigh you really slay.
Glenn Harper [:Look at that. Using some lingo here.
Julie Smith [:Wow. I only know that because I have some girls who use the same thing. And I'm like, wait, what?
Rob Brown [:Yeah, it transcends. But we're all different, aren't we? And thank goodness we're all different. Oscar Wilde said, be yourself because everyone else is taken. And there's too many. Me too. So if we're going to get one message over to people here, it's okay, how are you going to do it your way?
Glenn Harper [:You know what? And that's the. There's the million dollar question that I would like to ask you to tell our audience. We are all so busy doing our have to things, doing all the tasks, all the chores, saying yes to everybody. When and how does one make an appointment with themselves to do this very thing? How does somebody figure that out?
Rob Brown [:Yes. And the audience I speak to, accountants, ask themselves that question a lot. They're so busy. You guys know this. You're overwhelmed. These tax seasons and these cycles and everything else, and you are around. And the other aspect of this is building a brand or a network is not chargeable. Nobody gets paid to network.
Rob Brown [:Nobody gets paid to build a personal brand or go on a podcast or put an article out there that's not paid. But what it is, it's getting eyeballs on your brand. So that when you do pick up the phone and call somebody, they've heard of you and that's an easier sell. So you're asking the question, how do you get started? I would say to somebody, a really easy way is to work on your network. First. So if you want to look at it like this way, your network is who you know and your reputation is who knows you. Your network is who you know, your reputation is who knows you, and your reputation is always bigger than your network because there are people out there that know you, that you've never even met. So let's start by building the network.
Rob Brown [:And you do that by saying, let me reach out to a few people just once, twice a day. Let me spend five minutes on LinkedIn or five minutes on social, or just a few minutes just talking to people and starting to expand my network. Whether you go a mile wide and an inch deep, or the other way around, or just being diverse with it, looking at people in your field, who do you need to be on the speed dial of, who needs to be on your radar? You can be intentional with it, but just reaching out to people on all of the platforms that there are and saying, I want to be slightly more well known today than I was yesterday. And with your network and reaching out and being a little bit brave, and there are loads of different ways to approach people. And who knows what lies on the other side of a courageous hello. And you don't have to shake someone's hand. You can do it online now. The technology helps us to build a formidable network without meeting people.
Rob Brown [:And have you done business with people you've never met?
Glenn Harper [:Yep.
Rob Brown [:Yeah. Have you given money to people that you've never shaken hands with? Yeah, because the world has changed. So you don't need to be out there at every single networking event right now. You don't need to be tending all the conferences and mixes you can, and it's great to do that, but that might not be you. So I would start small and say, right, let me, let me build my network up. Let me be known by an extra hundred people in the next month and see where that gets you. Because there's a cycle here. I'll give you the five steps if you want to build business.
Rob Brown [:This is something I learned as I was going through my career. It starts with great questions. It's a circle. So great questions ask people a question. Instead of how are you? I say, how are you? Out of 10, it gets a better answer. Instead of how are things, I say to people, what's the biggest thing you're working on right now? What's your big thing for this year? So great questions, that leads to great conversations, high quality conversations. So, yeah, ask more questions, but ask better questions, then that's going to lead to better conversations. What do Conversations lead to relationships, trust, empathy, common ground.
Rob Brown [:You have more conversations, you're going to build more and better relationships. So we've got questions, we've got conversations, we've got relationships. What does relationships lead to? Opportunities. The better relationships, and the more relationships you have, the more doors you're going to open, the more opportunities are going to come to you. The and what does opportunities give you? The more opportunities you have, the more business you're going to create. So we've got this cycle, haven't we? And I call it the carousel, the carousel of business success. Ask more questions, have more conversations, build more relationships, generate more opportunities, create more business. And you know what? When you're doing business with people, that gives you permission to ask higher level and deeper questions.
Rob Brown [:You've got clients that have been with you for years, you can ask them stuff now that you couldn't ask 10 years ago when they started with you because you've been their trusted advisor for so long. And you can ask really intimate stuff. So it's a cycle, it's a carousel. You keep going round and round. So you go back to your question, Glenn, how do people get started? Simply ask more questions, reach out a little bit more and see where that gets you. You don't need to be famous, you just need to be a little bit more famous today than you were yesterday.
Glenn Harper [:I was going to say. So to try to build your individual brand with the circles and all the things. Is that something that. How does one start doing that? To recognize all those things? So you have, quote, the elevator pitch or whatever that thing is that you say so you can communicate to people effectively what did you do and what you stand for? How does one do that? Like, how do you coach somebody to do that?
Rob Brown [:Do you remember the Stephen Covey book 7 Habits of Highly Effective People? In it, it wasn't original, but he coined the phrase start with the end in mind. It's relevant here because if you want to be famous or slightly more well known, then who do you want to be famous with? In other words, who do you want to be known by and what do you want to be famous for? So a good starting point with building a brand and a reputation is what do you want people to say about you? If they're talking about you, it's not necessarily the eulogy at your funeral. What do you want your legacy to be and what do you want people to say after you've gone? But you want people to talk about you when you're out of the room. What do you want Them to say, you can't force people to like you, but you can put enough things in place that they will say the things you want them to say. And the problem is, in life, many people can tell you what they don't want, but they can't tell you what they do want. What do you want from life? I don't know. What don't you want? Well, I don't want to be poor. I don't want to live there.
Rob Brown [:I don't want to go on a holiday there. I don't want to be with that person. I don't want to put it with that. We're great at that. Well, what do you want? Well, I don't know. So we've got to go some way down the road of defining, okay, what are the kind of things I want people to say about me? Well, I want people to say that I'm reliable. Okay. What do you need to do to make that happen? I want to people say.
Rob Brown [:I want people say, I'm really good at this. Okay, how are you putting that out there? What evidence have they got to start seeing that? And then it's got to be that good that they start talking about it. Tyranny of choice. When people need what you do, how do you get them to think of you first above and beyond all their other choices? So that intentionality might mean sitting down with a coach, with people like you guys, a blank piece of paper or chat GPT and saying, okay, what am I good for? What I want to known for? Where are my opportun Is where could I build a brand? How am I just a little bit different? What could I play on? What could I leverage? What could I amplify? Once you've got that, then you're asking yourself, okay, how do I put that out, though? Is that speaking? Is that writing? Is that networking? Is that building key strategic partnerships? Is that going on podcast? The mechanism comes later. But you've got to get the message. Otherwise, you come on a show like this and you're asking me questions, and I'm not quite sure of what I want to say or what I want people to be left with.
Julie Smith [:So I have a question on that note. What is your superpower?
Rob Brown [:I have interviewed thousands of people in my lifetime, and if I have a superpower, it is shining a light on people that are doing great things in the accounting world and amplifying their brilliance. So I'm on the other side of the microphone today because you're doing that with me. You're shining a light on me and holding me up. But you guys are great at this, too. I'm an advocate for the brand of accounting, so I'll shine a light on that. And with my Accounting Influences podcast, that's my show that goes out weekly to accounting types that are not great at selling themselves, but that is how to be more influential and authoritative and relevant in your role. And in doing that, that's my way of building up these people that could tell a better story. They could be shining more of a light on accounting.
Rob Brown [:They could be communicating in a much more emphatic way. And you spoke about this earlier, Glenn, that accounting is a great job and not needing a thesis to do should be an example or two. For instance, as an accountant, I'd say one of the great ways to introduce yourself at a dinner party or a function when people say, what do you do? Is, well, I'm an accountant. I could tell you what I do, but it'd be much better if I gave you an example. Would that be okay? And you get permission to then tell a story and give an example and hopefully an example that they can relate to. And here's a little tip here for your audience. When you're in networking situations, I call it the rule of three to one, which is ask people three questions of a stranger before they ask you one so that you know a bit about them. So that by the time they say to you, so, what's your name? What do you do? What are you all about? You can give a much more personal answer because you've got some intel to work with and you can bespoke or personalize that a little bit.
Rob Brown [:My superpower would be shining a light on great people that are doing fabulous things in the accounting game. I should be shining a light on YouTube, but you're doing a great job in that. You are shining a light on entrepreneurship and bringing people on the show that have an angle on that, an opinion on that, a take on that. And there are so many different entrepreneurs, so many different types, so many different ways of doing it. Well, you are shining a light on that. So, yeah, we're amplifying best practice.
Glenn Harper [:I would definitely say that your formal education of teaching and coaching is what you do. You're helping people believe in themselves more than they believe in themselves and achieve something.
Rob Brown [:That's very well put. Yeah, I extract brilliance from people who don't know they're brilliant, But I think.
Julie Smith [:You turn the light on, too, so you use the lighting kind of analogy. And I think sometimes people don't know how to turn that light on. And I think you're just like, hey, let me show you. Flip the switch. And that light goes on in them, and they're able then to go shine on.
Rob Brown [:Yes, that's extremely well put. One of the mechanisms I used to do is I work with accounting firm owners and sometimes senior up in an accounting firm, and I interview them once a month for 30, 40 minutes, and we turn that interview into thought leadership and video snippets and articles. There's one entrepreneur that I do it with as well, because she wants to build her personal brand. And I amplify that because she can talk in a conversation on a. On a chat like this, a fireside chat. And I can tell about how I can ask her how she got started and what did she want to be when she was 16. And some of the questions you've asked me. But get her vision and her backstory and her origins and her passion and her strategy, and she'll talk about that in a conversation.
Rob Brown [:But asking her to go into a film studio and do that, that's difficult. Asking her to work with a script, that's difficult. Asking her to turn on a webcam, that's difficult. So these conversational things, bringing stuff out in an interview, it brings out personality, it brings out authenticity. It doesn't need much prep. It's just real. And people buy that certainty. They buy that authenticity.
Rob Brown [:So get someone to interview you. That's a great way to build a brand and turn that into content and video snippets and stories and a whole load of other things.
Julie Smith [:So I have one last question, and I'm not going to tell you it's a trick question. But what is your end game? It's a good thing you're drinking water. That means we really made you talk a lot.
Rob Brown [:It's. It's vodka, actually.
Glenn Harper [:That's even better. You're not rushing.
Julie Smith [:We should have had you doing that before we started.
Glenn Harper [:It should be gin.
Rob Brown [:I feel I've been through two. I've got an empty one here. So I've been through it just to get myself on your show because I'm very nervous. No, ask me the question again so that I can now give it due consideration.
Julie Smith [:Julie, what is your end game?
Rob Brown [:We're gonna have to edit this pause so it looks like my answer was completely no.
Julie Smith [:We love the pause.
Glenn Harper [:The pregnant pause is good.
Julie Smith [:Makes you think, I've got a body.
Rob Brown [:Of work now, having done a thousand interviews that my name will live on after I've gone. Whatever that Means I've written a book, build your reputation, which is on Amazon, and so there's that legacy there. But honestly, I'm really humble in knowing that in a couple of generations people won't know who Rob Brown is. You've got to have a real ego to want to live forever. So my end game, it goes to family. Now you guys have got kids, I guess, and you want them to be okay. You've probably heard that phrase as a parent, you're only ever as happy as your unhappiest child. So you want to do right by then.
Rob Brown [:You want to be a good husband, you want to finish strong. I'm going to be 60 in about three or four months.
Glenn Harper [:Just a number.
Rob Brown [:Yeah. So you want to finish well, you've probably heard this term life expectancy versus healthy life expectancy. So life expectancy, how long can you expect to live? But healthy life expectancy is how long can you expect to live in good health where you can enjoy life? So my end game is to finish well. I probably work for another 5, 10 years if God allows me to do so, and shine a light on good people. End game. What's your end game, Julie? Have you articulated that?
Glenn Harper [:Tell him his really well, yours.
Julie Smith [:You don't have an end game. And that's why you're talking in circles, I think. I think you are really good at what you do and that shining the light, which is how you ended, is what you're gonna continue to do. You're good at it. You're not gonna walk away from it. That's your legacy. And I think what's important to you is your children and your family, and it's leaving that legacy. And you're not gonna stop.
Glenn Harper [:Why would you stop? You know too much. You impact too many people.
Rob Brown [:That was a trick question.
Glenn Harper [:Yes, it was.
Rob Brown [:Nobody has an end game, right?
Glenn Harper [:Correct. Okay, well, most entrepreneurs do not have regular people do it.
Rob Brown [:I'm armed and dangerous.
Julie Smith [:Yeah, but you talked through it. I mean, you answered it the way I would expect. Answer it because you couldn't come to the answer. Right. Because you don't have one.
Glenn Harper [:Because you're going to keep doing what you do.
Rob Brown [:That's right. That's really enlightening, actually. I'm humbled by that. But you've taught me something there.
Julie Smith [:And I think it's, we don't need.
Rob Brown [:An end game, right?
Julie Smith [:Nope.
Glenn Harper [:You're doing it different than you were 20 years ago, but you're going to do it just as probably more effective today. And you're going to continue that.
Julie Smith [:So keep shining your light.
Rob Brown [:Yeah, but people talk so much, don't they, about vision and mission and values and goals. And we live in this metric driven society where you've got to be aiming and aspiring. What about as you're hinting, Julie, just showing up and doing a good job and, and being slightly better today than you were yesterday until you can't do it no more?
Julie Smith [:Well, I think most, we're going down the wrong path, but I think most entrepreneurs don't understand what their superpower is. And once you understand your superpower, you understand there is no end game because you can't hide a superpower.
Glenn Harper [:You're going to be more quality versus quantity with more purpose, but the impact will be larger than it was before.
Julie Smith [:That's the word. It's impact. You can't not make an impact. That's not in you. That's not in your blood.
Rob Brown [:Yeah, that's great. Thank you for that.
Glenn Harper [:I've only got one just brief question. Have you ever been to Sherwood Forest? I just out of curiosity.
Rob Brown [:Yes, There's a really big tree in Sherwood Forest which by legend is where Robin Hood lived with all of his merry men. You can't get near it now because it's, it's massive, but it's propped up and protected and everything else. But yeah, it's about 30, 40 minutes from where I live. Is.
Glenn Harper [:It is. Does the lore when you see it, we're going, oh, my God, that's the place. Does it have that vibe about it and the feeling or.
Rob Brown [:Yeah, it does a little bit. There's so many movies being made about Robin Hood now. He lives a few doors down from me, so we're neighbors.
Glenn Harper [:That's right. He's a cool guy. That's right.
Rob Brown [:Yeah, he's a very cool guy. Yeah, he's got a very philanthropic streak.
Glenn Harper [:Yes. Well, Rob, we really, really appreciate you being on the show. I think this was impactful for myself and I know our listeners are going to love it and hopefully your folks will feel the same way.
Julie Smith [:So if someone wants to turn their light on, how do they get a hold of you?
Rob Brown [:LinkedIn is best. It's where I spend most of my time and it is the go to platform for accounting types and entrepreneurial types, really, unless you're going to really be on social. So, yeah, LinkedIn is the place to have a conversation.
Julie Smith [:Awesome.
Glenn Harper [:Appreciate it. Well, here we go. Another great empowering entrepreneurs podcast. I'm Glenn Harper.
Julie Smith [:Julie Smith.
