In this second part of the conversation, Travis and Jeff discuss the mindset shift needed to embrace God's work in the world today. What is that shift? Can anyone make it? What are the ramifications if we do? They continue their discussion of Jeff's newest book, Once You See: Seven Temptations of the Western Church: A Novel (100 Movements, 2022).

Jeff is an author, leader, speaker, missiologist, and movement catalyst. He has served as the Executive Director of the Canadian National Baptist Convention, Executive Director at Church Planting Canada, and Co-Founder and Chief Missiologist at Church Multiplication Institute.

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