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How To Overcome Financial Stress And Find Purpose In Life with Scott Maderer
Episode 4041st April 2025 • Living Fearless Today • Coach Mike Forrester
00:00:00 00:44:38

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Have you ever felt trapped by financial struggles, unable to see a way out? In this episode I sit down with Scott Maderer to chat about how he overcame overwhelming debt and found a path to financial freedom and personal growth. Scott's journey is proof to the transformative power of honest communication, strategic decision making and focused, consistent action on a goal. He shares his experience of paying off over $78,000 in debt in less than three years while earning an average income of $55,000 - a task that seemed impossible at first.

Scott's story isn't just about money - it's about rediscovering purpose, rebuilding relationships and reinventing yourself. He shares how he transitioned from teaching to corporate leadership, and finally to his current role as a stewardship coach, all while staying true to his core strengths and values. Whether you're facing financial difficulties, considering a career change or simply seeking to live more authentically, Scott's insights offer a roadmap for personal and professional growth. His story reminds us that no matter how dire our circumstances may feel, there's always hope for a brighter future if we're willing to take that first step.

In this episode, you will be able to:

  • Learn how to overcome financial challenges and strengthen your marriage.
  • Uncover the secrets to finding your true calling and living a purpose driven life.
  • Unlock the benefits of personal and professional coaching for accelerated growth.
  • Master the art of managing your time, talent and treasures for a fulfilling life.
  • Explore powerful strategies for living a debt-free and financially empowered life.

The key moments in this episode are:

00:11:25 - Challenges of Managing Finances and the Impact of Debt

00:18:47 - Connection of Finances with Personal Growth and Spritual Life

00:23:30 - Male Communication and Financial Stress

00:25:18 - Exploring the Meaning of Career and Vocation

00:31:57 - Overcoming Fear of Change

00:39:05 - Framework for Inspired Living

00:40:28 - The Value of Coaching

00:41:51 - The Importance of Self-Investment


Connect with Scott Maderer

Website

https://inspiredstewardship.com/livingfearless


LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/csmaderer/


Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/stewardcoach/


Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/InspiredStewardship

 

Connect with Mike Forrester

Podcast Website

https://LivingFearlessTodayPodcast.com

 

Coaching Website

https://www.hicoachmike.com/

 

LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/hicoachmike/

 

Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/@hicoachmike

 

Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/hicoachmike

 

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/hicoachmike

Transcripts

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Hello and welcome back my friend.

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Man, there are times when we're gonna hit those challenges and those

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challenges can just seem overwhelming.

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Like there's, there's no other hope.

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There's not a way out.

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And today I'm talking with Scott Maderer and Scott has been in that place.

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I've been in that place.

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And first off, we'd like to encourage you, there is a way out.

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But in Scott's story that we're gonna get into today, you're gonna see where

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finances, man, they can just be that one thing that becomes like the chains

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that keep you in that prison where it locks you up and you don't see a way out.

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There is a way out, but oftentimes we've gotta persevere and stick with

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it and look for, you know, just.

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Other ways of, of looking at our situation.

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Dude, we're gonna get into some powerful stuff here with Scott.

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I'm super excited about it.

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So Scott has his own podcast.

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He's up to 1600 episodes.

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And so the man has definitely a lot of knowledge to, provide , and his

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podcast has inspired, stewardship.

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And so it's talking about our time, our talents, our treasures,

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what are we doing with our life?

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And you're gonna see that.

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You know what?

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Just because of where you're at now doesn't mean you're stuck there.

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Scott's, you know, taken the time, stopped reinvented himself four times.

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Not just once, but four times.

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That means you don't have to get it right on the first time.

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There's grace, but it takes their giving ourselves grace.

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So we're gonna jump in here.

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Scott's got a lot to, uh, just give us as far as insights and wisdom, so

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we're not gonna take any more time.

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Scott, how are you doing today, my friend?

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I am doing great.

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I'm trying to stay warm, so even though I'm in Texas, we managed to get snow,

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which is really unusual for us here.

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So we're not prepared for it.

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I don't, there are.

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Quite a few places that are not prepared when that snow gets that far south and

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it's like, could I drive on the freeway?

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Yes.

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Should I drive on the freeway?

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No, it's not just about us, it's also about those that are driving around us.

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So yeah, just to

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keep in mind, somebody told me the other day, I'm not even sure that this is

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a hundred percent true, but I'm gonna treat it like it's true 'cause it.

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It could be, uh, you know, my, my son lives up in Dallas-Fort Worth,

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and, and somebody said that Dallas, the metroplex largest city in

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all of Texas owns six snowplows.

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And I'm like, yeah, that tracks, that sounds about right.

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You know, we don't need them, so.

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Yeah, you don't need 'em until you need 'em.

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That's the problem.

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But what it happens is it snows.

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We all just stay home.

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We're just like, no, we're not.

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No, we're just, Nope.

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Yeah, it's, it, it's when those storms hit that it's like a whole new awareness

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about, um, do I really need to go out?

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Comes about, so like, I don't need, I don't

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need milk that bad.

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It's probably honestly not on the shelf anymore, Scott.

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It's probably been rated already in, in the milk, the bread and toilet paper.

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That's, you

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go to the store and, and milk, bread and toilet paper are always gone.

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It's like, really?

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Why?

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Why these three items?

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Yeah, exactly.

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Well, dude, Scott, I. Let's jump in and what does life look like on the

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professional side of things for you today?

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Uh, well today, today I find myself as a, uh, what I call a stewardship coach.

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So just like the podcast is about stewardship, time, talent, and

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treasures, that's what I call myself, uh, as the coaching that I do.

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So a lot of times, you know, the, the trick is that a lot of times

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people feel like, you know, man, there's stuff I'm supposed to do.

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I'm supposed to be living this out.

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I'm supposed to be, you know, starting this side thing or

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working more in this area.

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And it could be in the thing that they're already doing.

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It could be something else, but they feel I'm just not able to live

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into it quite as much as I should.

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And a lot of times they feel like what's holding them back is either time or money.

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I don't have enough time, I don't have enough money.

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Truth is, I, I trick people.

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They come to me for help with time or money, and then all we work on

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is talent because at the end of the day, the way you handle your time

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and the way you handle your money is actually about how you handle yourself.

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Mm-hmm.

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It's not really about time or money.

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Those are the symptom.

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They're not actually the problem.

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And so we end up working mainly on talent, but, but the areas that people

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come for help is usually time or money.

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Yeah.

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The bigger pain points that are screaming in your face going,

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Hey, I don't have enough.

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Uh, yeah, usually the ones that move the needle, but uh, really

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aren't the fuel, so to speak.

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Like, uh, you know, you're, you're showing people, hey, the ears

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behind the curtain, this is what you actually need to, uh, invest in.

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Yeah.

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The, the symptom is very seldom actually the solution.

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Um, that goes for a lot of things.

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You know, you, you're having, having problems in your relationship.

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Usually that's a symptom.

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There's something else going on, you know, that's deeper.

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Um, and same thing happens with our time and our money.

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When, when you're not living into your, your, you know, your priorities,

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you're going to feel conflicted.

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You know, when you're not living into your priorities with your time, when you're

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not living into your priorities with your money, you're gonna feel conflicted.

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You're gonna feel strained, you're gonna feel stress.

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And a lot of times the things we think that solve those problems end up

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actually making those problems worse.

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Yeah, I think back, uh, the way I was tricked into, you know,

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realizing, Hey, I, I have problems.

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I am the problem.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, was actually, I was doing coaching through somebody for business, right.

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I took that big leap and I said, I need help.

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In the area of business.

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Truth was I needed help, period.

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And uh, as we were going through coaching over the weeks and the

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months, and you know, I'm sitting there going, Hey, I've got this.

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And then it became talking about, you know, home life and everything.

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It was like I.

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Oh my gosh, it's me and I'm showing up at home and at work

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as the same person and the same

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person.

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And so the pain points, the issues were consistent.

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Only they were amplified at home because I didn't have, you know,

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clients or you know, people that I was looking to engage with.

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That wouldn't put up with what I was doing at all.

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So it wasn't, uh, it wasn't as loud on the volume scale you might

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schedule call you on your, on your

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Yeah.

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They, they put up with a lot that they should not have.

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But, um, you know, it was one that it came to bear and came to light when,

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when the timing was right and then things began to, to be addressed and changed.

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But it's funny how, like you talked about.

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What's actually got our attention isn't necessarily, you know,

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what should have our attention and, uh, you know, is the root.

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Well, it's, well the truth

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is all coaching is life coaching.

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At the end of the day, it's just a matter of what lens of your

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life you're coming at it from.

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You know, so when I do financial coaching, the lens that we're having,

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the conversation is around finances.

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When I work with business owners, well it may be around

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business when I'm working with.

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It's the lens that we're looking at it or the frame that we're looking at it.

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But at the end of the day, let's face it, it's all about really your life, you know?

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And so it's all life coaching really.

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It's just what lens are we looking at it through?

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Yeah, that's so accurate.

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Well, let's jump over to the personal side.

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What does life look like for you today in the area of personal?

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So today, um, you know, uh, we're actually really blessed.

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Um, so I've, I've lived, we lived for about 25 years out in kind of the middle

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of nowhere south Texas, um, where we drove an hour to go to the grocery store.

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You know, I used to explain to people I live 45 minutes from Walmart,

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Starbucks, or McDonald's, you know, just 'cause people can get.

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Wow, that is out in the country.

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Uh, we recently moved, we actually moved, uh, late, uh, 2024 to, uh, a

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house in, uh, the Bryan Texas area.

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Um, so came up here to get a little closer to my mom and, and my family and

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help out some of, with, with her and her situation and that kind of thing.

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So it was, it, luckily some folks that we used to live with

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my mother-in-law and, you know.

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Some folks moved back down there that could help take care

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of her and, and support her.

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And so we were able to move up here.

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So, you know, everything kind of worked out or we were able to, so my

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wife and I live up here and in a, uh, a nice house in Brian with, we bought

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a house and got chickens with it.

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Um, they weren't able to take the chickens, so they're like,

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would you keep the chickens?

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We're like.

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You know, we'll, we'll, we'll do that.

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Whatever.

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It was really a blessing situation.

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Just a lot of things tumbled into place the, the right way.

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Um, so we've been up here just for about four months now.

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Um, so not that long yet, but we're loving it.

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We're now I. Went from an hour, from everything to 15 minutes.

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From everything.

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You know, we, there's four grocery stores within 15 minutes.

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So, you know, it's like that.

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I have an adult son.

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He lives up in the Dallas, uh, area.

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He's been working.

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He is about to turn 22.

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He has a full-time job, uh, keeps getting promoted, so you

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know, he's doing something right.

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So we're glad about that.

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For some reason, he wanted to move near Dallas.

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I, I. I don't know.

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His girlfriend moved, went, moved up there and I, for some reason, he wanted to live

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up there instead of close to mom and dad.

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I, I don't really get it.

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I'm kidding.

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I get it.

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Um, so, you know, he's up there working and, and starting his life up there.

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I have a adopted daughter and her two girls that are, are my

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goddaughters that, uh, live kind of.

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Close to back where we used to live, but we are still ve in their life.

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So it's just blasted a lot of different ways.

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Um, you know, we're finding a church up here, finding new con contacts up

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here, you know, kind of rebuilding.

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We're in that rebuilding phase.

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Um, as I told someone the other day, they're like, where

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do you like to go to eat?

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I'd be like, we're still in the, we're gonna go anywhere and try

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anything phase, you know, it's like, we haven't found the list yet.

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So it's that kind of, that kind of situation.

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And now with the move, congratulations, by the way, on the new place, you've

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probably got a lot more places to pick from than what you did,

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you know, just four months ago.

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absolutely.

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Yeah, there's, there were three restaurants where we used to live.

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Now there's, you know, 300 restaurants.

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'cause this is college town, so there's a lot of food.

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Yeah.

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Then, then it's definitely, uh, changed and morphed on that scale for you.

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Well, Scott, let's, let's kind of jump back.

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I alluded to this when we were talking at the beginning.

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Um, there was one point where the finances, you know, now

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where it's plentiful and it's a very different situation.

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That wasn't at all the case, man, you know, the finances had, had gotten

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tight and that caused other things to, you know, then, then come about.

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Can you take us back to that time, how things kind of led up and, and what.

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Really on your mind and, and what you were looking at?

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Sure.

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Um, I, I can, I can share some of that.

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So, you know, back, uh, I'm gonna go back even a little further.

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So, you know, I had, uh, grown up, uh, doing different things.

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Graduated from college and I was a school teacher.

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Uh, I actually married my high school sweetheart.

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We were together for a while and then we'd actually gotten divorced.

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Um, I met my current wife, you know, we.

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She was going through a divorce.

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I've gone through a divorce.

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We both got divorced and then we kind of started hanging out and it's like, huh,

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well maybe we should try this again.

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But, you know, with each other instead of with the, the first, we

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both made a mistake the first time.

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Let's see if this has worked the second time.

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And, uh, so we'd gotten together and, and started, you know,

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kind of rebuilding our life.

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We'd moved to that place in the middle of nowhere.

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You know, we'd lived in a couple of different places and then eventually

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moved out to that place in the middle of nowhere with family.

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We were doing all of that.

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I was still school teaching.

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And at that, you know, I, I know this is a shock, but school

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teachers aren't paid real well.

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Um, I, I know it's shocking.

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Um, you would think that they were probably paid like

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doctors, but they're not.

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So I was doing a lot of long hours, a lot of hard work, really

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very little money building up and, you know, doing that work.

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And my wife and I were working on the house that we were living in

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and, you know, fixing that up, buying furniture, buying other things.

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Basically just doing normal American stuff.

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Living a little beyond our means, but doing it pretty consistently

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and debt started piling up.

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I, I've always had clinical depression.

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I've, I, I actually, as a teenager had committed, you know,

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attempted suicide a few times.

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This is something that has not a new thing, but it, it was, I'd kind of

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gotten some treatment and I moved past that when I went through the

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divorce and had been doing better.

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A lot of those feelings and those depressions began to come back to me.

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Uh, as with the debt went up, you know, I took more and more of that weight onto

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my shoulders of, you know, it's my job.

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I'm, I'm the guy, I'm the provider.

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I'm, I'm the breadwinner.

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I'm supposed to be taking care of my wife and eventually my baby son, but.

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You know, I'm not doing a good job.

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And so a lot of men take on a lot of their identity around their career and

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their ability to provide, again, rightly, wrongly, good or bad, a lot of us do that.

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And so I kind of felt like a failure.

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I began to internalize that idea that I'm not a good provider.

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And as that got heavier and heavier, you know, I took on more and more of it.

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I wasn't talk.

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I was gonna protect my wife.

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I wasn't gonna tell her about it.

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She knew, but you, I, I'm gonna, you know, my, my wife's a smart lady, but

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I'm gonna protect her, you know, and not tell her about all of this and

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not share, and not do all of that.

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I, I also, at that time, I had been raised in the church and had been very

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into to Christianity and, and the church.

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And I had actually left the church back in college because.

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Uh, well, quite frankly, I, I loved God, but I didn't like a lot of the people

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that I met in church, and so it felt a lot of hypocrisy and a lot of falsehoods

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and a lot of this sort of thing.

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And so I had left it and I actually called myself an atheist and an agnostic,

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and that's tied in because kind of all of this coincidentally began to come

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together as I was driving home at night.

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On a very windy road that had large drop offs on the side.

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And I began to think to myself, you know, if I just drive off the side of

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the road in the middle of the night, everyone will think I fall fell asleep.

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Insurance will pay out.

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My wife will be able to pay off the debt.

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She'll be okay.

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You know?

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At this time, we had a baby son at home.

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She'll be able to take care of him, she'll be able to take care of herself.

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And I'm thinking this night, after night after night, I hadn't done it, but I'm

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thinking about it and thinking about it and beginning to plan it out and

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beginning to figure out how I could do it, what, you know, where's the best

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drop off and these sorts of things.

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And.

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They, I used to listen to talk radio on the way home, not because I

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actually cared what was on talk radio.

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I, I wasn't even really listening to listen.

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It was just so there was a human voice talking to keep me awake.

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And they switched the lineup and they put on this Dave Ramsey show.

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I. And all of a sudden on a Friday night, I'm driving home and I'm

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hearing all these people, it was a re-broadcast of the show, but later in

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the day talking about being debt free.

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And I'm arguing with the radio, you know, this is stupid.

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You know, have, you know, and I'm hearing people whose

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situation was better than ours.

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And I'm hearing people whose situation was worse than ours.

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But I'm hearing all of these people talk about changing what they

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were doing and getting debt free.

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You know, I was mad, quite frankly, you know, and I'm yelling at the radio

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that you know how stupid this is.

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But Monday I'm driving home again and again.

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They're playing the same, you know, the show, but it's now not a Friday episode.

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And they're starting to talk about how, and I'll be honest, even to this day, I

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don't agree with everything Dave Ramsey says, or everything he puts out there.

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But at the same time, I was beginning to hear these little nuggets showing up

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over and over again, that really what it boiled down to is these people had decided

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we're gonna do something different.

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It, it was less about quote, these are the steps and more about,

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we've made a conscious decision to live in a way that is different

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than the way we've been living.

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And because of that, we got out of it and I basically said, you know, well maybe you

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know, before, instead of killing myself, 'cause this was the first couple of nights

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that I hadn't thought about it because I was so busy yelling at the radio that,

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you know, maybe there's something to this.

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So I went.

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The next weekend and I went and found my wife and I said, Hey,

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you know, here's our situation.

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Here's what's been going on.

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I've been listening to this radio show on the way home.

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She says, you mean Dave Ramsey?

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And I'm like, well, yeah.

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And she's like, yeah, I listened to it during the day with dad.

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And I'm like, okay.

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And she's like, and yeah, I know that's how much debt we're in

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and I know what's been going on.

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And you know, I mean, again, she knew all of this smart woman.

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But I wasn't sharing it with her 'cause I was gonna protect her.

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And I basically told her how I'd been feeling, told her that

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I'd been suicidal and said, you know, do you want to leave me?

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You know, or do you want to change what we're doing and do

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something completely different?

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And she said, no, I don't wanna leave you.

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Let's do it.

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You know, we can, we can make this work.

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And so we began making different decisions, began changing things.

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And over two years and 11 months, I am not allowed to round that up to three years.

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My wife will come through that door and beat me.

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Um, so it was two years, 11 months.

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We paid out, paid off.

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78,850. Mm-hmm.

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$6 and 46 cents.

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Or that might have been eight.

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$54 and 40 or 68 cents.

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But anyway, brain cramp, not sure, but over $78,000 we paid

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off in those two years, 11 months.

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And at that time I was making an average income about 50 5K.

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So you can kind of do the back of envelope math and realize we

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were living on nothing, you know?

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Um, and again, that's not the way everyone should do it.

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That's the way we chose to do it.

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In that same time, I also kind of began to open myself back up to the idea of

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returning to church and returning to my relationship with God and those sorts of

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things, and began to do that, uh, as well.

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So it not only changed the way I was walking, I. In my relationship

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with my wife, it changed how we were walking with our finances and

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the decision we were making there.

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It changed, in my case, the the walk that I had in my spiritual life.

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That's one of the things you find a lot of times when you work on one area.

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It makes changes.

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I. It ripples out.

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And when you decide to get healthy, that ripples out into other areas when you

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decide to get your money in order, that ripples out into other areas when you

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decide to get, you know, whatever it is.

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And so that kind of was the beginning, uh, of that change.

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Now again, it took a lot of time.

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It took a lot of work.

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We made a lot of mistakes.

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You know, I changed careers in the middle of that.

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Went into the corporate world, did that for 11 years.

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Um, and then.

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Left a very high paying, very high-end corporate job to go start my own

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coaching business, which everyone told me I was completely crazy to do.

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Um, but did that, and, you know, that's, that's where we are

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now and what we've been doing.

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I started part-time in 2011 and full-time in 2017.

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So that's what we've been doing for that long.

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That is

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a

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lot, Scott.

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Wow.

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That's the short version.

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Would you like the long version?

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No, no, no, no, no.

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I

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can, I, I can appreciate the highlights here and it, and when

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you were sharing about trying to, you know, protect your wife, dude.

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Mm-hmm.

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It is, it is scary how many times.

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Oh yeah.

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That is like a super common.

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More times than not, you're gonna see that with, with the guys where it's

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like, yep, I'm protecting my wife by not telling her what's going on.

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Dude, I did it in my infant wisdom spot it.

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It was like, sh, I'm gonna protect my wife if I don't tell her She doesn't know,

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right?

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Nope.

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Sorry.

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My wife, just like yours knew.

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Everything that was going on may not have known all the details, but it's

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not like, you know, I was masquerading and, and keeping secrets from her.

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She knew exactly what was going on.

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It's like, you know, it would've been so much easier just being open and

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honest and I wouldn't have had to worry about the whole thing of, you know, uh.

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Keeping the secret, like there's like stress involved in that in

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and of itself with the energy.

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Yeah.

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Yeah,

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yeah.

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All of a sudden you've got somebody who's on your side who's working with

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you, who's pulling the cart beside you instead of you're now working.

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You know, imagine it's like two horses hooked up to a wagon, right.

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And one of 'em.

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Is, is hooked up and pulling on the wagon, and the other one doesn't

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even know there's a wagon, you know?

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Well, it, it, it, it's, you're not making any as much progress.

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And Please, I'm not comparing our wives to horses or, or us,

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but you, you get, you know, the idea, the analogy understood, man.

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And yet at the same time, it, it's when we work together, when we get

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on the same page, when we align things, we got better communication.

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All of a sudden it's like, eh.

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This is, this is what we're after.

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You know, we can, we can do this, we can make this work.

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And even though the problem is exactly the same.

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you've got a built in accountability partner.

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You've got a built in another brain that is smart and wise and able

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to see things that you can't see.

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We're kind of stupid, you know, enlisting them for help and communicating with them.

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But, you know, I, I'll speak for myself.

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I don't know about any other guys, but you know, occasionally

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as a guy I'm kind of stupid.

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So there you go.

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I think that's like universal.

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So it's, it's one of those of like, Hey, why would I not.

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Take the help, but in the moment just, I mean, it's the same kind of

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thing when I look back, Scott, it's like with our finances, when we hit

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those kind of situations where it's like I'm at a point of desperation.

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I don't know what to do other than this extreme action because there's

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no more rope to, you know, to go down.

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If I would've looked, you know, talked with my wife, it's like she's

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up at the top of the cliff with a longer rope, a stronger rope.

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But if I just talk to her and, and share what's going on, Hey, there's another way.

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It's almost like I'm hampering myself.

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Mm-hmm.

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Because I'm not taking that action.

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But in that moment, Scott, I never saw it in that perspective.

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Right.

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It was, it was like, I am, I'm protecting my fragile wife.

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Mm-hmm.

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My wife has anything but fragile, so, and she wears combat boots.

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Well, again,

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it's, we're wired, we're wired in a way sometimes to be, you know, to be

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that, that protector, that, that, that.

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Provider, that person that is taking care of the situation.

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And, and whether it's gen, you know, whether it's genetic wiring

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or whether, you know, I, I, I actually have a degree in genetics.

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And you know, the, the question of is it nature or nurture?

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Is it your wiring or is it how you are brought up?

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And, you know, truth is geneticists, don't ask that question.

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We've answered that question a long time ago.

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The answer is yes.

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It's both, you know, it's really just a matter of how much of each is it.

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It's not a matter of, is it one or the other.

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And so this goes with that wiring too.

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In part, it's our culture and the way we're raised and what we're

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taught and the messages we hear, and then there's also some genetic and

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biology kind of components to it.

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It's, it's some of both, but what it boils down to is at the end of the day, those

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work together to create a situation where.

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We, we don't wanna communicate it, it, we don't wanna talk about it.

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We don't wanna own the emotions.

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We wanna focus on the, the practical stuff and the, the, the steps

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and the process and all of that.

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We wanna be good providers.

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We wanna take care of everything we wanna, and what ends up happening, by the way,

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the number one cause of male suicide, financial problems, and financial stress.

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Um, why?

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Because we own it and we put our identity into what we're

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doing around the area of money.

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Truth is how much you make has nothing to do with your calling, has nothing

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to do with how you are a provider.

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You know, has nothing to do with your identity, who you are as a man.

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But yet we feel that way.

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And so because of that, it creates those stress environments that

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often will lead men down a road of, you know, I'm just gonna clam up.

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I'm gonna protect everybody.

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I'm gonna own all of this myself.

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Which can in extreme situations lead to, to suicide and other

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decisions that aren't, uh, that are very permanent solutions to what

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truly could be temporary problems.

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Yeah.

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And more times than not, it is temporary and yet we only look at it

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as this final overwhelming situation.

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Well, let's, let's jump off into one thing that you just mentioned

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a moment ago in, in calling.

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So what is calling and is it the same as purpose?

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How do you get to it?

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Like how do you discover her?

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Like, Hey, this is my calling.

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Um, can you kind of walk us through that?

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So calling is always, uh, it's one of those things that's kind

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of a hard subject to, to talk.

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So we actually use two different words, uh, that are in, in our culture.

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We treat these as, as interchangeable, meaning the same thing.

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And yet the reality is they're, they don't.

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So one is career and the other is vocation.

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So literally those two words mean something different.

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So a career actually comes from a Latin word that means cart, it means

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a mode of transportation to get you from point A to point B. Okay?

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We've now come to, to use that for our, the thing we do a job

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that provides money, you know, to get us from point A to point B.

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If you think about your career, right, it's what you do.

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It's a. It could be a business owner, it could be an employee.

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You know, you're, you're an HVAC guy, you work in construction, but it's, it's the

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role that we have that generates income.

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Okay.

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The word for.

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Calling the word vocation.

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Vocation, literally the same route as vocal to speak, to be called

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to have a message come to us.

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Okay?

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So calling it implies something different than our career.

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It's something that comes from outside.

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You know, I believe it comes from, from God, a, a, a play, a creator, or an

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outside being that's greater than me.

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I don't care what name you wanna give it, and I don't even care if you

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believe that there is such a thing.

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It comes from outside of us.

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It is related to our purpose.

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It may not be exactly the same as our purpose or our passion, but

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there's, there's overlap there.

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It, it's things that oftentimes the stuff that comes to us that whenever we do it.

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We feel like we're living into something authentically.

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It's giving us energy, it's giving us, it could even be really hard.

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It could even be something that you gotta work really hard at, but

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it doesn't matter when you do it, you feel like, man, this is it.

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I'm jazzed.

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You know, I'm, I'm ready to go.

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And oftentimes we confuse those and we think, oh, to live my calling, I have to

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have my career align a hundred percent with the thing that gives me passion.

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Mm-hmm.

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Truth is maybe.

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Also, maybe not.

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Um, career and calling are two different things.

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They don't have to overlap.

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They can, but they don't have to.

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By the same token calling is one of those things that we don't

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usually arrive at in completion.

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In other words, we don't get there in one step.

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you know, instead to quote the great philosopher Shrek,

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it's like an onion, right?

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You gotta pull back the layers.

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You gotta keep peeling back and finding out what are the

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things that give me energy.

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And so, as an example, you know, I was a school teacher.

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I worked in the corporate world.

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Now I'm a coach.

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But my mom will tell you that even when I was eight years old, I was always the

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guy that other people came to for advice.

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I was always the guy that other people came to for help.

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I was always the guy that, you know, in high school, I was always the guy that was

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friends with all the girls and gave them great advice, but was never asked for a

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date, you know, because I was the friend.

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Right.

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You know, you are friend zoned, but it's because I was that person.

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They, they knew they could come to me and they could have somebody listen

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and, and not necessarily tell 'em what to do, but empathize and, and

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ask questions and do those sort.

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That's coaching.

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Well, when I was a school teacher, I hated being the teacher that stood in the front

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of the room and lectured the whole time.

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Not that I didn't ever do that.

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There were times that that was the appropriate way to convey information,

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but there were a lot more times that I was looking for activities that we could

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do and labs and asking questions and challenging the kids to come up with.

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That's coaching, you know, it only, it isn't because it was in

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the framework of being a teacher.

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So were there things in teaching that I hated?

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Absolutely.

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Are there things today as a coach that I don't like doing?

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Absolutely.

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You know, because you guess what?

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I've yet to hear somebody get up in the morning and go, Hey,

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I get to do laundry today.

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Woo-hoo.

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You know, it it, I mean, I'm sure there's somebody out there that that's

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what jazzes them, but a lot of us, that's just something you have to do

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'cause you're alive and you're living.

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Same thing happens with our, our calling.

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There's parts that are associated with it that you may have to do that are

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uncomfortable or difficult or not fun, so that you can spend as much time

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as you can doing those things that.

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At the end of the day, it's like, wow, this gives me energy.

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This, this feeds my soul.

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This makes me feel more complete.

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And so guess what?

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Moved into the corporate world.

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I was eventually promoted to role where I was developing

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other leaders in the company.

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I . Well, guess how I did that?

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I did it through coaching.

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You know, I did it through asking questions.

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I did it through challenging the way people think I did it through creating

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frameworks and, and systems and processes, all the same stuff I do now.

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So even though my assignment has changed multiple times, I

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roll the career that I have.

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If you look at back, there's this thread that kind of runs.

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Between it that is related to how I've made, how I'm called,

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how I'm created to do something.

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And you know, I'm good at it.

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It gives me energy, it gives me joy.

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It, it's something that is more deep than just I'm a coach.

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You know, by the way, I don't know.

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I may be changing again at some point and doing something different, but

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the thread will still be there at just maybe playing out in a different way.

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I.

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With what you've described, I'm like, you have continued to like almost morph.

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Mm-hmm.

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Through as the opportunities arise, as your perspective changes.

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I would look at it and I would've told you, Scott, I am who I am.

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I can't change, and if I thought I could change, it was like you're limited to one.

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Mm-hmm.

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How is it that you can continue on that growth cycle, you know,

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looking for, here's my calling, who, here's who I am, like you

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continue to grow and transform along.

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How are you continuing to give yourself the space and the opportunity more

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than just once, um, and not kind of dead end yourself, if that makes sense.

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Yeah.

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You know, it, it's funny because first off, if, if you don't like

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change, welcome to the human race.

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None of us do.

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Right?

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Um, you, we, we get comfortable.

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In the place that we're at, the things that we're doing, by the way

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we can get comfortable even with stuff that's really bad, right?

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You know, it, it's why people end up in, uh, you know, abusive relationships

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sometimes for way longer than they should, because even though it's bad, I.

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I don't know what's on the other side, you know, so I don't

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know if it's better or worse.

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I, I don't even know.

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I can't see it yet.

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And so I did it the same way that, you know, now.

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I sometimes help other people do it.

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I got help, you know, I, I enrolled, I got coaches, I got.

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Uh, people around me, my wife and others who were supportive of it,

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who began to say, you know, Hey, you could look at this a different way.

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You could, you could do something a little different.

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You know, have you tried this?

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I found ways to test it and try it on the side.

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You know, I, I, I think a lot of times, and sometimes we're forced to do this,

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but, but a lot of times, even when we're not forced to, part of our reticent is,

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oh, I'm gonna have to quit everything.

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I'm, you know, I'm gonna have to totally change everything.

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I'm gonna have to give up everything I'm doing, you know,

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there's no way I could do it.

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Yeah, but there's probably a way you can test it in a small

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scale or, or do it on the side.

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You know, find a way to do part of it and see if it really does feel more authentic.

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If it really does fit better.

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Uh, you know, if you really are able to, to, you know, I remember

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the first time somebody paid me for coaching and it was like.

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This is cool.

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You know, it's like, it's like, I, I, I would've done this for free

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and they gave me a check, you know?

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It's like, cool.

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You know, it, it's, it's all of those things and you start to get that

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reinforcement to come through that, huh?

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Maybe this change thing.

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Is it so overwhelming?

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It, it is something that I can do.

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So it's, it's not about, uh, you know, jumping off a cliff and

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building your wings on the way down.

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Sometimes it's instead about, you know, designing the plane,

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getting all the equipment together.

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You know, even maybe building a test flight or two and then going,

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okay, now I'll jump, you know, it's, it's things that you can do.

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And again, some people are wired where like, man, they can jump off the cliff,

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build their wings, doesn't matter.

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But most of us aren't wired like that.

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Most of us are more, you know, we would rather avoid pain than have pleasure.

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Most of us would rather it not hurt, you know, than we, would

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it feel good, so to speak.

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Um, if there's a lot of studies that show our cognitive biases, you know,

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lo we measure losses heavier than we measure gains, you know, so something

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takes somebody, takes something away from you that hurts worse.

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Then the good of somebody giving you the same thing.

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You know, it, it, we, we have all of these sort of built in biases

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that hold us back from change.

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And by the way, they're good things.

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They're survival characteristics.

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They help keep us alive.

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'cause you can imagine, you know, back.

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And the day if we were walking around and it's like, Hey,

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I'll just eat whatever I see.

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Let me grab that.

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Oh, you know, and you were real.

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You know, guess what?

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Some of those people got poisoned to died, you know, and so some of that

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reticent and some of that fear response is to protect us from the unknown.

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It's protect us from things that aren't good for us.

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The problem with it is we often then take that same wiring.

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That's a good thing.

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Let it keep us from things that are good for us that are able to do it.

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So, you know, how do you do it?

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You bring in support staff, you know, you bring in a team, you

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bring in other people, a, a coach, a mentor, a mastermind group.

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You know, I've done all of these things, you know, at one time or

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another, virtual mentors, you know, you and I were talking about Dan Miller,

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uh, he's one of my virtual mentors.

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He's he somebody that I learned.

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You know, uh, because I read his books and I listened to his podcast and I

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found other ways to engage with him.

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And he, he said things and, oh, well, yeah, he must be talking to me.

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You know, because it really resonated.

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So you find those things that help you reframe that fear into.

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I can do something different.

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You know, the, one of the things that I, somebody told me this one time

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back in the day when I was getting ready to do public speaking, and I've

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never really had that fear of public speaking that so many people do.

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But they said, you know, neurobiologically, in terms of the

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chemistry of your brain, what's released into your brain, the chemicals, fear and

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excitement is the same chemical cascade.

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So when you feel yourself being afraid.

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Relabel it as excitement.

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You know, I'm not afraid to get up there and speak.

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I'm excited by it.

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It's the same chemistry.

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Your brain will go, oh, okay.

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You must be excited.

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You know, it's like you can almost convince yourself to be excited instead

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of afraid, and do those things anyway.

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That, but you know, and again, do 'em in a way, it's not fatal.

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I am not a, I am, you know, all in at the poker table works in a James Bond movie.

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It doesn't work so well in real life, you know?

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So don't you know, that's not what I'm talking about.

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I'm not talking about being foolish.

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I'm talking about being wise, but finding ways to do it in a way that breaks down.

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Because here's the thing, once you start doing it and you see that

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it works, then it's like, huh.

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Maybe I can do this.

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You know, it, it reinforces the change as opposed to driving you away from it.

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Yeah.

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Take the risk, but don't take the, uh, reckless risk.

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There's risk and there's fatal risk.

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Yeah.

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You know, I tell everybody, like with money, this is one of my expressions

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when I'm working with people in coaching, like money, I like to cheat.

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I wanna set it up where it's a situation where if everything goes right, I win.

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And if everything goes wrong, I don't lose.

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That's, that is really cool.

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I mean, I'll win, but I at least don't lose, you know?

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Right.

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And if I can do that, you do that every time.

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And guess what?

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You'll win some and you don't lose some so you don't lose ground.

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And over time, guess what?

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If you have a few of the wins, you end up in the right place.

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You end up where you're trying to go.

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Scott, I wanted to touch on something.

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So your book that released, I wanna say it was July of 24.

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Yes.

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Inspired Living.

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What would be, if, what point in life would it benefit me?

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Or is it like, Hey, regardless of where you're at, this is gonna benefit me.

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Like, what's in there and what kind of, you know, um, aims and aspirations or

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I. Desperations would, would be best, uh, to kinda line up to read the book.

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So honestly, what we were just talking about, if you found yourself

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resonating with any of that, it's probably a good read for you.

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So the subtitle, it's Inspired Living, and the subtitle is

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Assembling the Puzzle of Your Call.

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I'm mastering your time, your talent, and your treasures.

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And so it is that kind of framework of let's look at these areas of your life.

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Let's break down what you're doing and maybe what you could be doing different.

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And through that, I then want to encourage people to kind of,

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I, I teach 'em some frameworks.

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So one of 'em is invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your

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influence, impact the world.

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The idea is, you know, before we do anything to help others, we gotta

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make sure we're in the right place.

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Yes.

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Then we turn that energy to help other people and then we can, from that

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naturally comes influence, and through that influence naturally comes impact.

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And so it's, it's that kind of progression.

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There's other frameworks I teach in it, so it's really about breaking down,

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you know, what you're doing, applying some new thinking, applying some new

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frameworks, and then through that.

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Beginning to improve in those areas.

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So it's a lot of the exercises I use with my clients, it's a lot of

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the tools I use with my clients.

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I just decided to, to put it in a book form.

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'cause you know, it turns out not everybody signs up for coaching

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and not everybody knows I exist.

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And it's just one more way of getting that message out in the world.

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So, you know, honestly.

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If you are in the place where you know that those things are holding

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you back and you wanna do something different, it's a good book for you.

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If you're convinced, you already know all the answers, you're not

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gonna get anything outta the book.

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Yeah.

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And and the funny thing is, man, when you talk about not everyone's ready

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for coaching, I. Honestly came in through the back door to coaching.

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That was one of those risks that I took.

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But the big hurdle was, at that time, Scott, I didn't

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think I was worth investing in.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yep.

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Like that was the first domino that needed to be tipped over

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to then get me to go like, oh.

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I am worthwhile investing and once that went, it was just like it fueled

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a fire that I did not know existed and I wanted to invest in myself

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because I knew it paid me dividends.

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Mm-hmm.

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It paid my family dividends because as I'm in a better place, we are

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all in a better place, not just financially but relationally.

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You know, like you talked about as far as career and vocation, dude, everything

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changed from that point forward, Scott.

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So it's like, and I would just encourage guys, if you're in that place where

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it's like you're teachable, not like Scott said with the second part,

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man, if you think you know it all, I.

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You can't be help.

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Yeah.

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And by the way, coaching doesn't help you then either.

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'cause

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Yeah, exactly.

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'cause you're not coachable.

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Yeah.

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I mean, the

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irony is coaching is we usually aren't telling you something

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that you don't already know.

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Yeah.

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But the irony of coaching is what we're doing is changing

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the way you're looking at it.

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So all of a sudden you believe that, you know it.

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Mm. It, it's a weird dichotomy, you know?

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Yeah.

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And yet at the end of the day, yeah.

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If you're convinced, you already know all the answers and you

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already know what you need to know.

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You're not coachable.

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That's a different, you know, and, and that's fine by the way.

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That's not a bad thing.

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It's just that coaching's not gonna help you.

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'cause that's not what you're looking for.

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You need something different.

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Well, man, Scott, as we're wrapping up here, how can guys connect

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with you outside of this podcast?

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Absolutely.

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So I put together a a page just for your listeners.

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So if you go over to my website, which is inspiredstewardship.com, and then

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just put in slash living Fearless.

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Then what you'll find there is a page that has some free resources that you could

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download as a way you could set up a call.

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If you wanna jump on a call with me, has the information about my book and

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where you can pick that up and my podcast and a few other resources on there.

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Uh, none of 'em except the book have any cost associated with them.

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Uh, you know, everything else is is free on there.

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And I'd be honored to connect with anybody who.

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Is interested in having a conversation, or even if it's just, you know, pick my

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brain and, and need to get a little help.

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Not nothing is, uh, uh, I'm not a real high pressure guy.

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Uh, maybe I should be, but I'm not.

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So I just love meeting people and helping people and, and

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finding out what's going on.

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So, again, you can find that at inspiredstewardship.com/livingfearless

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I

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appreciate it, Scott, and I will have all that in the show notes as well.

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Make it easier 'cause mm-hmm.

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I know if guys are like me, man, you're driving down the road.

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It's like, wait a minute, what?

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And I've got the grocery list and all these to-do things floating in my head.

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It's in the show notes.

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So just go there and the connection will be there.

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Scott, I appreciate your time and thank you for sharing that.

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It's like, dude, we are not stuck with who we are, nor is

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the situation that we're in.

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You know, that, that fatal kind of final, uh, situation that we're believing it.

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We just need to reach out, ask for help, and I think from both you

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and I, we can also give the advice.

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If you're married and you're hiding the situation from your wife,

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you're not,

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she already knows.

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Yeah.

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Just go to her, talk to her.

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Get somebody on your side there to help you, so absolutely.

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Scott, thank you again, my friend.

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I really appreciate it.

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Thank you.

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I'm honored to be here.

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Absolutely.

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