Julian Scadden, CEO of Nexstar Network, on why the trades need a clear path from technician to business owner, not just a pitch about six figures.

Everyone says the trades pay well, carry no student debt and don't need a degree. Julian wants to know why kids still aren't lining up. His answer starts with his own story: early in his plumbing apprenticeship, a service manager pulled him aside and said everyone loved how clean he kept the truck and how well he did the paperwork, but he wasn't a good plumber. Julian never planned to be one anyway. He's a high school dropout who learned business through what he calls business apprenticeship, and he asks every employer listening a hard question: if a technician told you they wanted to start their own company, would you help them or fire them?

Julian is president and CEO of Nexstar Network, a member-owned organization that coaches independent plumbing, HVAC and electrical companies, and he was a Nexstar member himself before he led it. Recorded at Nexstar's conference, this conversation covers his Substack post on what comes after "become a plumber," what makes a good mentor, his open letter to the CEO of Lowe's, and why he doesn't think private equity will consolidate the trades.

This episode is for trades business owners who employ technicians, technicians wondering what comes next, and anyone funding or building workforce programs who wants careers to last past the first 90 days.

IN THIS EPISODE

(00:00) – Become a Plumber, and Then What? The Missing Path to Ownership: Julian explains why six figures and no debt aren't pulling kids in, and why the story of ownership gets left out.

(02:40) – From Technician to Owner: The Skills It Takes and Who Is Teaching Them: The service manager who told Julian he wasn't a good plumber, a contractor who built a $4 million business and lost it, and why employers have to start developing owners.

(06:00) – What Makes a Good Mentor: Mentor versus sponsor, balanced accountability, and how his first mentor Ed Coleman let him make a costly mistake without letting it sink the company.

(12:00) – The Letter to Lowe's: Data Center Dollars or Real Trades Careers? Julian and Andrew ask whether the money going into workforce programs is building careers or just filling seats, and why honest expectations about the work matter.

(17:50) – Private Equity and the Trades: Will Consolidation Win? Why Julian reads the trend lines differently than most, why airlines can consolidate and trades can't, and what happens when buyers don't know how to operate the business.

(23:00) – Who Should Join Nexstar Network and Where to Find Julian: Who is a good fit, why Nexstar is more of an accelerator than an incubator, and how to reach him.

Key Takeaways

Pay alone doesn't recruit people into the trades. If the pitch stops at six figures and no debt, it leaves out the career path, including the path to owning a business, that makes someone stay.

A mentor walks you through your own development, while a sponsor is in rooms you aren't and says your name. The best mentors hold balanced accountability and can tell the difference between you building muscle and you sinking.

Be honest about the job. Showing up at 6 a.m. when it's 20 degrees, or crawling into an attic with asbestos, is the reality, and ride-and-decide days let a new hire find out before they commit. Andrew ties this back to the first 90 days, which is where most new hires are won or lost.

Private equity can't take over an industry where anyone with technical skill and a license can start a competing business tomorrow. Julian expects it to stay a challenge but not to consolidate the trades.

About the Guest

Julian Scadden is president and CEO of Nexstar Network, a member-owned organization for independent plumbing, HVAC and electrical contractors. He was named CEO on November 1, 2020, after joining Nexstar as its first implementation coach, then leading training and events and serving as vice president of operations. He started in the trades as a plumbing apprentice and has more than two decades in home services.

Julian writes on Substack about the future of the trades, including an open letter to the CEO of Lowe's about workforce funding and the path to ownership. Nexstar's mission is to help the world's best tradespeople become the world's best business people, and it only works with independently owned companies, not investment-backed ones.

Keywords

skilled trades, path to business ownership, trades business owner, plumbing careers, become a plumber, technician to owner, mentorship in the trades, mentor vs sponsor, balanced accountability, private equity in the trades, data center workforce, Lowe's Foundation, trades careers for Gen Z, first 90 days, retention, HVAC business, electrician business, home services, Julian Scadden, Nexstar Network

RESOURCE LINKS

Julian Scadden on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julianscadden

Nexstar Network Website: https://www.nexstarnetwork.com

An Open Letter to the CEO of Lowe's (Julian's Substack): https://julianscadden.substack.com/p/an-open-letter-to-the-ceo-of-lowes

SUPPORT THE SHOW

If you found value in this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Your support helps us keep telling the stories of the skilled trades.

My whole story is, I don't have a college degree, I'm actually a high school dropout.

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Are we just getting them in to fulfill building a data center,

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or are we building careers in the trades?

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Julian Scatton, president CEO of Nextar Network.

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The intent right now is to get the workforce to get the data centers built,

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nothing beyond that, and that's a little troubling to me.

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What do you see over the next five years?

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What in your perspective, like what makes a good mentor?

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Hi, I'm Andrew Brown.

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You're listening to the Lost Star of the Skilled Trades podcast,

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a show that shines the spotlight on careers in the skilled trades

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that are high paying, honorable, rewarding, and fulfilling.

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The trades are the backbone of the economy that keep us running,

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and without them, our world would cease to exist.

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Julian, everybody's talking about getting more people in the trades needed.

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You kind of raised a different question on your sub stack,

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become a plumber, and then what?

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What did you mean by that?

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Yeah, well, I think about, you know, there's this thing about

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how come kids aren't coming running when we say

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you're going to make 100,000 in your first year?

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How come they're not lining up when we say there's no debt?

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Well, I started to think about it, and I thought,

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well, how come they're not lining up when we say there's no debt?

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Well, I started to think about that, and, you know,

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I didn't become a plumbing apprentice to become a plumber.

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I just didn't, to be very direct.

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It was an option that I had in my life at that time,

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and I say, okay, well, we're not attracting people

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to crawl into crawl spaces.

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We're not attracting people to work in attics.

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We're not attracting people to work with hazardous materials.

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I wonder what that is, and what I was reflecting upon

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in that sub stack is, what's the future?

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Does someone want to be a technician their whole life,

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and I love the plumbers that do,

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and the HVAC technicians, and electricians,

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and some people, they just, you know, they love schematics,

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and they love doing the work, and I get that,

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but I wonder how much of the message we're leaving on the table

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when we don't talk about the path to ownership,

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so that's what I was alluding to as we sit here at our conference,

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you know, 500 businesses, and so many of these people

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were technicians, and now they're great business owners,

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and I wanted to start shining some light

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on that side of the story.

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Well, what does it take for somebody who's thinking about

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maybe even going into ownership?

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It's a different skill set.

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These people, obviously, at the conference,

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they started in the field.

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What was it about, because not everybody's cut out

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for entrepreneurship.

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What is it that allows somebody to,

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yeah, this thing is for them?

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Yeah, I get it, and I guess the inverse was true with me.

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I wasn't cut out for technical work.

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I'll never forget early in my apprenticeship

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being pulled to the side, not by my mentor,

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but by the service manager himself,

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and he just said, everyone you've ridden with

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loves how clean you are, loves how clean

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you keep the truck, loves how well you do the paperwork,

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and all of these attributes that are really good attributes,

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but you're not a good plumber.

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You're not real good, man.

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You're not good with your hands.

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You know, the work has to be double-checked,

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and you're taking longer,

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and I'm taking that approach to tell you,

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I think I was the inverse,

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and I think there are skills and attributes

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that you can start to take away from that,

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and I do think you can be a great technician.

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I've seen that, become a great owner,

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but yeah, the path to entrepreneurship,

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look, you're gonna have to be open to communication skills,

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to detail, and to leading others,

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and we have a prospect here at this event

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who was just sharing with me,

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he built a great business, you know,

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for him as an individual,

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exceeded about four million annual,

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and that's impressive within a couple years.

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He said, I lost it all,

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and he said, now I'm rebuilding it.

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He said, you know what I learned

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is that I actually have to learn how to lead people,

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not just tell them what to do.

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So, you know, there's these learnings,

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and you can read books on it,

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and the truth is there are some people

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who are just not built for it,

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have no desire, no interest,

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and I don't want to force you into it.

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I know from my self-experience

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and the members that we have here today,

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and the people I've interacted with for,

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oof, I guess four decades now,

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there are some people who are really multi-talented,

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and technically skilled,

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and they can really become business owners

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and world changers in the business world.

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Are we actually setting them up

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for that type of success?

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Like, is that, I'm 19 years old, right?

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I'm just thinking about working with my hands.

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I can't even imagine owning my own business one day.

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Are we setting these kids up for like a career

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into potential entrepreneurship?

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Here's exactly why I'm pulling out the soapbox.

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I love that you used we.

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Who the heck is we?

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Well, the we is the everyone

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who's employing these people.

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Are you doing what that service manager did for me

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and noticing the skills that the person has

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or starting to cast a vision

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or starting to build them?

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I actually, within that same sub-stack,

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I offered that, you know,

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what if you had someone that worked for you

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as a technician and they told you

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they wanted to start their own business?

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Would you help them if you knew that?

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Or would you fire them?

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And so I think the we need to start taking them

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on internships in the same way that we have the,

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you know, the journeyman to master apprentice.

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That's true in business.

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My whole story is I don't have a college degree.

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I'm actually a high school dropout

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and everything I have was learned through,

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for lack of a better term, business apprenticeship.

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And I think currently in general, by and large,

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no, we are not doing that.

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We, the current older business owners,

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are looking at our exit.

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We're not considering what's next.

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And that's where I think we're at today.

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And I want to change that narrative.

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Now, how do we get them to be mentors?

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Because obviously, like you said, they're retiring.

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They're X amount of years away.

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You know, how did we get them to pay it forward

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and to help the younger generation?

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Because not everybody is set out to be a mentor.

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Some of the best technicians

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do not make the best mentors.

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So what in your perspective, like what makes a good mentor?

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Yeah, I think I want to say two things here.

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Number one, what makes a good mentor?

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I want to answer the question that you asked.

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You want to create legacy.

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You see the best in someone

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and they're willing to hold them accountable

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to the gaps and to the winds

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and you're invested in someone.

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I heard something in corporate America once

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in a conference I was attending

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and being as that I didn't come up in corporate America,

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it was interesting to me.

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It talked about the difference

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between a mentor and a sponsor,

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a mentor and a sponsor.

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Now, a sponsor is in rooms that you're not

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and they're mentioning your name.

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So they have a seat at a table

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and they're literally sponsoring

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your professional development.

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Now, a mentor, though, is the person

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that will walk you through

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your own professional development.

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So it's not focused on the business you're in

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or the doors you're not behind.

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They're literally just working on the you,

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noticing where your gaps are,

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where your skill sets can be either amplified

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or enhanced.

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So yeah, I think a good mentor

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is really going to have that timeliness.

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And also for me personally,

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that high accountability,

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that high accountability.

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And the second thing I wanted to say

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is to the folks that are waiting for a mentor

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to be the reason why they succeed.

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I can tell you it was common for me

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and I hope it's not as common today.

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But when you were out there in the field,

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you know, I remember kind of just being the runner,

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the gopher and even, you know,

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yelled at things thrown at me.

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But I wanted to learn it.

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I wanted to learn it.

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And nobody was going to get me out of that,

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out of the field.

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You know, it was a logic conversation

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that took me out of the field

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that had me thinking differently.

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But as far, and I don't want this for anyone,

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but I do want to offer this word with context,

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abuse.

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Because even professionally,

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there have been lessons

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that I've learned professionally

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from things that I would never do.

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The things, the ways I would never treat someone

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the way that a leader treated me

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or a manager treated me.

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So for those of you that are,

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don't wait for a mentor

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to be the reason why you succeed also.

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I want you to extract lessons in all you do.

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Who was that impactful person for you

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or your first mentor

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that really kind of changed the game

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or maybe your trajectory?

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I want to shout him out

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and he has passed.

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And you know, all the best to him.

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His name is Ed Coleman.

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And the reason I giggle a little

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is because he was a bit of both.

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He was a bit of both.

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He did things that I would never do

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and never want to do

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and talk to people in ways I never would.

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But he was also super kind.

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There was also this side to him

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and you know, for him to take the care.

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And we were in a growing business

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that had just been acquired.

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And you know, nobody's job was promised

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the next day and the time he took.

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And as I reflect back what he did

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in that time to develop me

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when everybody's job was on the line.

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And then he sought me out later

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and recruited me again.

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And so I kind of had this very weird, bizarre,

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I don't want to call it love hate,

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but it was definitely push pull

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where he could be very harsh in his language

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and abusive at times and,

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you know, beyond direct.

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And there were other times where,

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you know, we just kind of sit there quietly

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and he would tell me the good things he saw me

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and you know, where he wanted me to go.

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But Ed Coleman, love him a bunch.

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What makes a good mentor?

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Like if you could pick two or three things,

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like what are the characteristics

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of a good mentor?

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Oh yeah, for me,

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definitely with someone in mind,

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I do think about what maybe

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I would describe this person

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as balanced accountability,

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balanced accountability,

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very supportive,

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made sure that I was equipped and empowered,

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would give me enough room to navigate on my own,

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but would make sure I wouldn't fall off a cliff

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and would hold me to timelines,

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would hold me to, you know,

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the budget, the scope,

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and all of those things

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and the deliverables that he expected.

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And I even remember in business,

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because we worked together,

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he let me make some pretty significant mistakes.

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He would use the word,

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it's not a salvation issue

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is the way that he would say it.

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And I use a term more like fall off a cliff.

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And so he would let me go,

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he would let me go

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and I made some significant mistakes

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that once I made them,

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I was in the one that I think of the most

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was a financial,

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it was an investment where he let me

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keep going a little longer than I should have,

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I believe as a good steward of the organization,

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but he knew it wouldn't be enough

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that it would harm the organization.

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And as I look back, I'm almost ashamed,

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but I learned so much

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and him letting me learn that.

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And he was such a great steward of the organization

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to know where those lines were.

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So let me keep going.

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And he knew I was, he knew I was good.

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He knew my heart was good.

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And I think he knew that was a lesson

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I needed to learn.

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So I guess it's one of those things

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where a good mentor is going to know

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when you're struggling and building muscle

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versus when you're struggling and sinking.

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And I think they put you

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in those types of environments consecutively

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and hopefully in a graduated state

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because everything I learned from that person,

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it was the next iteration.

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I wasn't learning the same lessons over and over.

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And I think as a mentor,

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that's why he chose to take that time with me

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as he saw me reflect, learn, apply and be proactive.

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But I'll just call it balanced accountability

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was never too emotional, was never too extreme

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and would call me out if something was out

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or I use the term a lot

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and it's a common term, trust and verify.

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And it was a lot of that.

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He poured a lot into me and expected a lot of me

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and made sure I was clear on that.

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Yeah.

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And I just want people to know

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that it's not just one mentor in your life.

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You can have multiple mentors.

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This person could take you here.

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This person could take you here

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and so on and so on and so on.

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So you can keep growing

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because you hit different levels

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and you need different help.

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How hard is it to really look at yourself

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and say, I needed to fix a couple of things?

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Like if you were reflective

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and you look at your career,

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where did you need work?

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I think at different phases,

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it's different skills, different things.

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Today, I have the privilege of sitting with you,

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leading a member-owned organization.

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And as the organization has grown,

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the behaviors that served me well,

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not only in my previous positions,

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but in this same position,

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as the organization has grown,

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I'm needing to develop a new skill set

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as the organization grows

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or they'll need to find someone

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to fill the title that I hold today

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that can execute those skill sets.

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So I do think it's, you know,

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I don't want to get,

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I'm not trying not to answer,

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but I do want folks listening to consider

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and not only is it situational,

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but it's also incremental

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of where you're at in your career.

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And that's one thing I love about the trade so much

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is to go from apprentice to journey to master.

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And, you know, in an instant society,

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there are so many lessons and muscle

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and confidence that come from

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just having to go through the suck.

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Just got to sit down, just got to take it.

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It ain't coming tomorrow.

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It's not microwaved.

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The suck is, it's not for everybody, right?

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If you know that, you know,

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it's going to take a handful of years

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of going through whatever you have to go through.

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Not everybody's cut out for that.

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And you just need to understand

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that it's not an overnight success.

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And it takes time.

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I want to shift over to just talk about

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the letter to Lowe's

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because I want to unpack that a little bit.

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Lowe's is pumping in $250 million

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over X amount of years.

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I had a chance to actually sit with Betsy Conway,

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the executive director of Lowe's Foundation.

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They're spending a lot of money.

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Meta is spending a lot of money.

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The thing is, are we just getting them

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in to fulfill building a data center

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or are we building careers in the trades?

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Well, you know, I really appreciate you calling that out.

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My intent was to start a respectful conversation

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towards ownership.

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And I will be very direct with you

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that part of my discomfort

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in wanting to broaden the conversation

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for the young ears and eyes

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that are listening and looking at us

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is I do have some,

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and I think there's very clear data

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that shows the intent right now

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is to get the workforce to get the data centers built

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and nothing beyond that.

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And that's a little troubling to me.

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That's concerning.

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I'm not saying that that is Lowe's intent

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and I'm not saying that that's their strategy

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or their execution, but I am saying

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they have a need

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and I do see very deep pockets that can fill that need.

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And we've even seen with Meta

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the amount of money they're willing to throw

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with the attrition that comes with it

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and they don't care

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because the retention rate

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is all that they need to focus on.

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And many of us don't have that level of dollar

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that we can just release and lose

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to have a very small retention rate.

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So yeah, that's part of what my response was

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in that letter

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is I really want to open the conversation beyond

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are we now throwing,

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and this term is used a lot in business,

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golden handcuffs almost.

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Am I just going to throw so much money at you

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that you feel restricted or cuffed to this outcome

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versus painting a virtuous future

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and a career that serves the communities,

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that enhances their lives,

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their family's lives,

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and it can be something legacy building for our nation.

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I mean, without the trades,

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you know very well that it's not just comfort,

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that's how we view it today,

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but it is health and safety at its core.

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And I feel like we're kind of skipping a step

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and just once again,

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talking about the money

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or not talking about the holistic outcome

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to the community.

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Yeah, and there's a, you know,

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attractiveness of the money.

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You have the Mike Rose saying,

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well, you can make $200,000 today.

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Look, what about overtime?

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Let's set the expectations correctly.

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Like, you're showing up 6 a.m.,

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it's 20 degrees down on a job site.

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Like, be realistic about what you're going into

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because if you aren't,

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you're not having the expectations.

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People will show up and they don't know why they're there

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and then they end up leaving.

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And that's why I think also the first 90 days

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is the most important piece

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and then keeping them past there

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to build a career in the trades.

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I don't know if these organizations

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have a plan for that.

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Maybe they do.

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I'm not seeing it.

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I'm not saying you're promoted.

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You make me think of,

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so very fortunate to have five children

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and our true middle child,

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Darrell Ethan.

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Since he was a kid,

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played with little cars,

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played with Hot Wheels.

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But then as he got older,

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we even bought him,

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it's like a plastic engine that you can build

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because he just loved cars

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and then he built that little engine

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and he loved it.

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And he would tell us all the time,

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you know, he's going to be a mechanic.

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He wants to work on cars.

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That's all he wants to do.

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Well, I've had a saying that

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I said in different ways,

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but it really landed with him.

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Son, I love you.

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That's great.

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Until you bang your knuckles,

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we'll find out what you're going to be professionally.

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And, you know, with a mechanic,

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mechanics understand what that means

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and us in the trades know what that means.

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And that's what I hear you saying

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when we say,

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what is the real picture?

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What does it really look like?

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I love when I hear different businesses

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say they have four aspiring technicians

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ride and decide.

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I like that language.

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Show up when it's 40 below.

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This house doesn't have heat.

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It's a hundred-year-old boiler.

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We got to crawl into it.

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It's best those covered at 100,000,

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you know, that kid's going to start saying,

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I can live off of 50,000 in Chick-fil-A.

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You know, I want to serve the,

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you know, serve some chicken sandwiches

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and be a manager there.

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You're right.

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I really like the way you framed that.

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I don't know that we're painting

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that picture clear enough.

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And that's my fear.

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We tantalize you with money to join.

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And then when you find out

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the reality of the work,

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it's not something you're at all interested in.

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So what's the framing

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that we're putting out there

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is really important.

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And consider it.

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I like the way you did that.

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Well, you travel the country

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and you meet with different

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next door members, right?

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Each company is struggling

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with different things.

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Like how much of this

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is the employer problem

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at the end of the day?

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I love earlier you said,

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what are we doing about this?

527

They're the we.

528

They are the we.

529

You know, we're very fortunate

530

in the organization that I represent,

531

that we talk a lot about coaching,

532

but we don't just talk

533

about your financials.

534

We talk about talent.

535

We talk about the technical aspects as well.

536

Yeah, I just don't see it.

537

I don't see it enough

538

that these,

539

the owners of the businesses,

540

the managers of the businesses,

541

the leaders of the businesses,

542

we're in a very challenging

543

industry right now

544

where there are factors of businesses

545

that are scaling money

546

to grab market share

547

and independent businesses

548

are concerned about

549

where their next technician

550

will come from.

551

They're concerned about

552

their profitability

553

as they watch these larger,

554

these larger businesses

555

enter their markets

556

and can leverage buying equipment,

557

can leverage buying marketing.

558

They're really trying to flex

559

and take over the marketplace.

560

And I think that they are,

561

you know, they may be reacting

562

from a stress response

563

and not thinking long term about

564

how do I pour into these employees

565

that I'm attracting?

566

How am I pouring into the people

567

that I'm wanting to retain?

568

And what's the reason?

569

And it's a perfect recipe

570

for an unsavory meal,

571

meaning that as all these stresses

572

and tensions rise

573

on the business owner

574

that's around my age

575

and these folks are looking to exit,

576

well, it's probably easier

577

to just get a multiple

578

for the business and walk away.

579

And yeah, it's just a recipe right now

580

that is, you know,

581

it's bubbling, it's brewing

582

and it's simmering.

583

Yeah, I mean,

584

you have private equity coming in

585

and knocking on people's doors

586

of wanting to take over the business.

587

What do you see

588

over the next five years

589

if they really start to gobble up

590

more of these small businesses?

591

Like what happens at the end of the day

592

in the trades?

593

It'll be interesting to watch.

594

I'll tell you what I'm seeing now

595

and we just had the opportunity

596

to sit with an economist

597

from ITR economics

598

and I do call them out by name.

599

I would encourage folks

600

to consider economics.

601

I have a bad joke

602

and guess what?

603

You're going to get it

604

when folks ask either my religion

605

or my politics.

606

I say none of that.

607

I'm an economist.

608

And I don't mean that

609

in the financial sense,

610

what economy teaches you

611

is there is no good or bad.

612

There's only trade-offs.

613

That's it.

614

If you're going to do one thing,

615

you cannot do another.

616

And so, you know,

617

as I think about that,

618

you know, I think we really have to focus

619

on where are we spending our time?

620

What are we focused on?

621

Where are we putting in our endeavors?

622

And now to tie that back

623

to private equity though,

624

I think about that

625

and what I'm seeing today.

626

So the economics give us trend lines

627

to predict the future

628

and they always say

629

have at least five different indices

630

you're watching

631

before you believe any one of them.

632

And if three of them are trending,

633

that's what you believe.

634

I'll tell you the trend

635

I'm seeing right now.

636

I'm already watching private equity

637

because of the way

638

that it was handled most recently.

639

Party releasing assets,

640

dissolving assets,

641

because things were being purchased

642

at a rate that didn't make sense.

643

These were being purchased

644

without enough operators.

645

If we don't have enough technicians,

646

I can promise you right now,

647

we don't have enough operators

648

that know how to run this business.

649

And that's part of their issue

650

where these financially backed

651

investment businesses

652

do not know the industry or the trade.

653

Now, are they learning quickly

654

and professionalizing it

655

and scaling it?

656

Yes, that's true.

657

But you need operators.

658

I want to be very clear in that term.

659

And what that means is

660

not only the leadership of the people,

661

but how to run a business like this

662

and how to run it

663

so it sustains.

664

I'm not running it

665

for a three year horizon to turn it.

666

And when you do that,

667

the business starts to deteriorate.

668

And what I've seen is

669

no one wants to be the last person

670

holding that asset.

671

They just cut cost, turn,

672

cut cost, turn, cut cost, turn.

673

What I'm starting to see now already,

674

as I mentioned,

675

these assets are dissolving

676

or going away or devalued.

677

I'm watching many, many people

678

leave those types of organizations

679

and starting again, starting over,

680

starting independent businesses

681

or leaving as employees

682

and wanting to consult

683

or start their own businesses.

684

So I don't know.

685

My trend lines tell me right now

686

that they're not going to go.

687

I've heard so much.

688

And this was around 2020, 2021

689

when the multiples were ridiculous

690

and folks were saying,

691

Julian, I think your industry

692

is going to be consolidated

693

like airlines and waste management.

694

I said, I don't think so.

695

I don't think so.

696

Because someone can't go out

697

and buy their own plane

698

and start their own airline.

699

Someone's not going to go purchase a truck

700

and start their own waste management.

701

But here every day,

702

everyone listening to this podcast

703

right now that has

704

any technical proficiency

705

and doggone sure a license,

706

you can start your business tomorrow.

707

And I'm going to encourage you

708

to start having those conversations

709

and thinking about it.

710

That's why I believe that

711

no one force will consolidate us.

712

And I don't believe

713

that private equity will consume.

714

Will it be a challenge?

715

And will it be here?

716

I think from here on out, yes, I do.

717

And what folks don't realize

718

is it was around for some time,

719

really well done by a few groups.

720

But in any business

721

where you have hubris and greed,

722

that's your downfall.

723

So I think the ones

724

that are good operators,

725

long-term vision, long-term decisions,

726

or at least in some form,

727

as long as people like money,

728

they'll be around.

729

But I don't know

730

that it's going to be as present

731

or as tense as it is now.

732

Yeah.

733

And I've seen companies change

734

that were taken over by private equity.

735

The cultures changed,

736

the people changed.

737

A lot of people left

738

and it was all about margin, margins, margins.

739

You know, it wasn't necessarily

740

about the people.

741

And I think if you want

742

to build a good business,

743

put a lot of stock in your people,

744

get the right people on the bus

745

and build your business.

746

You know what that makes me think of

747

is I remember,

748

now this was early on

749

and I'll own that I'm outdated,

750

but I remember early on in my career

751

when SharkBite fittings came out.

752

So as a plumber,

753

you know, we were very proud

754

to solder and connect and copper.

755

And then SharkBite fittings,

756

these little clamp down fittings

757

that came out,

758

when they first came out,

759

they were cost effective.

760

It was a very quick solution.

761

But at that time,

762

they weren't the best solution

763

in all cases.

764

But I was watching similarly,

765

businesses push for that.

766

You were in and out of a job faster.

767

The materials were lower.

768

And so that's what I think about

769

when I hear you talk about,

770

you know, we're chasing margin

771

all the time.

772

That leak's going to come back.

773

And here's the dangerous thing.

774

I know I'm speaking about plumbing.

775

I love my other trades.

776

I love you all.

777

I promise I do.

778

Carpenters, all of you.

779

I love you, painters.

780

I love all of you guys on the roof.

781

I'll never do that.

782

I could never do that.

783

But here's what I'm saying.

784

The thing with plumbing,

785

and I explain this to people

786

all the time.

787

Number one,

788

the work that we do is behind the walls.

789

Nobody gets to see our craftsmanship.

790

But with plumbing,

791

when a leak happens,

792

it usually runs down the pipe

793

and the place where you see it

794

by the time you see it,

795

number one,

796

it's probably become mold,

797

become dangerous and a bigger issue.

798

Number two,

799

you can't even find the origin of it

800

or the source

801

because it'll run along that copper pipe

802

and then it finally drips

803

where a turn or a drop is.

804

That doesn't mean that's the source

805

of the problem.

806

And that's where I'm tying back

807

to any business that's looking

808

for quick turnaround,

809

quick solutions.

810

They're not thinking long term.

811

That drip is going somewhere

812

and someone's going to pay someday.

813

And that's why I see

814

some of these businesses

815

not wanting to be the last one

816

holding the asset.

817

Who's a good candidate

818

to join the Nexstar Network?

819

Like if I'm thinking

820

I'm listening to this right now

821

and I have a struggling business,

822

what do I do?

823

Yeah.

824

Yeah.

825

Well, first,

826

join some type of best practice group.

827

OK, so Nexstar is great.

828

I love it.

829

I was a member

830

and I get to lead the organization today

831

and very biased towards that.

832

But I think the first thing is

833

this kind of goes back to mentorship,

834

but also say it's networking community.

835

So when you join any group,

836

you're going to be around other people

837

that are going through

838

the struggles you're with.

839

You're going through,

840

hopefully, a coaching perspective

841

or a consultative perspective

842

that's a little separate from you

843

that can stay objective.

844

Because, look,

845

I still have a coach to this day.

846

I can coach people all day long

847

and then I can have a conversation

848

with my coach and not see things

849

that are right in front of me as well.

850

And I do appreciate the tip.

851

So I will dive into that.

852

I'll tell you,

853

if you're considering Nexstar Network,

854

please just reach out.

855

I'll start with that.

856

I will tell you that

857

we're more of an accelerator

858

than an incubator.

859

And what I mean by that

860

is if your annual revenues

861

in the trades are below,

862

you know, 1 million, 2 million,

863

you're not going to really

864

have the time to implement

865

what we're cooking up for you.

866

So, you know,

867

build the organization a little bit more.

868

And the other thing I'll say,

869

I wonder if there will be a day

870

where, you know,

871

there are members,

872

I'm seeing a little bit of it,

873

once they pass a certain

874

revenue threshold per location,

875

that they might graduate.

876

And I'm OK with that.

877

I'm OK with that.

878

Because what they do

879

is they start to take,

880

you know,

881

they have their internal coaching,

882

they have their internal training.

883

There's things at scale

884

that they just need to do.

885

And I think that's

886

a wise business decision.

887

And then the other thing is

888

that you must be independently owned.

889

We do not bring on anyone

890

that is investment backed

891

or venture capital backed.

892

And what we want to do

893

and our mission as written

894

and what we shall do

895

is honor our mission as written,

896

which is we will help

897

the world's best tradespeople

898

become the world's

899

best business people.

900

I love that.

901

If people want to find out

902

more information or join Nextar,

903

where do they go?

904

Yep, nextarnetwork.com.

905

Find us on the socials,

906

find us on the webs,

907

find me in the street.

908

I can't wait to tell you

909

more about it.

910

Julian, you've got

911

an interesting perspective

912

on the industry.

913

Thank you so much

914

for what you're doing here.

915

And thanks so much

916

for being on the show.

917

I want to take a moment

918

to give you your flowers,

919

what you're doing right now,

920

the lost art of the trades

921

and, you know, shop class,

922

the soul craft is a great book.

923

And I think about the work you do.

924

And I tie those things together.

925

I appreciate you bringing ears

926

to the voices that are

927

not well heard right now

928

in the way that you do it,

929

the depth touch.

930

And yet the loud whisper

931

that you're using

932

and when I use that term,

933

what I mean is that

934

you do it professionally.

935

Thank you for that.

936

Respectfully.

937

But you're making sure

938

it's getting into

939

the right audiences.

940

And as I say that,

941

I'll say one more thing.

942

And I see you

943

being a great representative

944

of the thing

945

that I wish we had more of.

946

And I think it's minimizing.

947

But people used to say things like

948

they would say a cuss word

949

or they would kind of

950

be really gruff.

951

They go, oh, it's OK.

952

We're from the trades.

953

And to have that inference

954

that we're not professional

955

or can't be professional.

956

And my point in spinning

957

all of that up is to say

958

the way you're doing things today,

959

Mr. Brown,

960

you are showing people

961

an aspirational view

962

of the trades

963

and the craft that we hold.

964

And I really appreciate you for that.

965

We don't have to,

966

you know, say naughty jokes

967

or be dirty to try to be funny.

968

These are professionals.

969

And I really see you

970

bringing that to your podcast.

971

And I just want to honor you

972

and thank you for that.

973

That means a lot.

974

That means lots of passion for me.

975

I see you mean a lot.

976

Yes, sir.

977

Julian, thanks so much

978

for being on the show today.

979

Anytime.

980

Thank you so much for the platform.

981

Thank you, sir.

982

Thanks for listening

983

to The Lost Art

984

of the Skilled Trades.

985

Visit us at andrewbrown.net

986

for more resources and tips.

987

Join us next time

988

for real stories

989

and meaningful initiatives

990

as we celebrate our men

991

and women in the skilled trades

992

and shape the future together.