Shownotes
Mastering Visual Storytelling: PowerPoint Tips from Oreet Kaufman
Summary:
In this episode of 'Present Influence', host John Ball joins Oreet Kaufman, an expert in presentation design, to discuss the importance of clear, visually appealing presentations.
They talk about the concept of 'word dieting' to eliminate clutter and improve communication effectiveness.
Oreet shares practical tips on creating impactful slides, avoiding redundancy, and using animation judiciously.
Despite some audio issues, the conversation is rich with insights on how to enhance professional presentations and better connect with audiences. Tune in for valuable advice on mastering visual storytelling with PowerPoint.
Visit Oreet's website to download her tips on word dieting: https://ocdesigns.info/
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Professional Communication
00:32 The Importance of Visual Storytelling
01:33 Guest Introduction: Oreet Kaufman
02:21 Cleaning Up Communication Clutter
03:48 Effective Presentation Techniques
13:42 The Role of Imagery in Presentations
26:31 Adapting Presentations for Different Audiences
32:42 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Transcripts
As professional communicators.
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Hopefully we all understand that it's
really important to not just be able to
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do the presentation a bit well, but to
make sure that all elements of what we do
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look as good and feel as good as possible.
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We are projecting a, a brand and.
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Image of how we want to be
perceived by our audience.
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So if we look a mess, our audience
are gonna make assumptions about us.
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If our slideshows look
super basic or homemade, I.
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That's gonna tell a story about
us as well, not a good one.
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And so I wanted to continue the
elements on visual storytelling.
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We've had a few episodes on this recently.
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One with Emily Schneider, and again with
John Demato , and want to continue that.
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I, one of the reasons why I decided to
do another episode, particularly relating
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more to PowerPoint was because my guest
are Kaufman, has some really nice.
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Insights and ideas that relate to this
about how we can be doing something.
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She calls word dieting, so you
definitely wanna listen to that for that.
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Now, I will say this, the audio
quality is not the best for one of
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these, for one of my episodes, and I.
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Almost was in two minds about whether
to publish it because, because of the
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audio issues, I think it's cleaned up
enough that it's still just about works.
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But, hopefully will be able to listen and
hear everything that you need to hear.
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I tried to take out as much
as possible of everything that
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wasn't coming through clearly.
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But there's only so much I can do, so
please do bear with the audio issues.
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It will be worth it.
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You'll get some great value from
listening to my guest today.
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Welcome to Present Influence the show
for professional communicators who
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want to inspire, impact and influence.
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My name's John Ball.
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I am your guide on this journey to
mastery level communication skills.
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Let me officially welcome Oreet Kaufman
to the Present Influence Podcast.
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It's great to have you.
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Here
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Oreet Kaufman: Good morning.
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Thank you for having me.
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John: I'm so delighted to speak to you.
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I really enjoyed our conversation when we
had a little pre-interview chat a while
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back, and We recently, as had a friend
of yours, Emily Schneider, on the show.
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And we'd wanna say, oh, we have, we're
gonna have some other stuff to talk about.
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Visual storytelling.
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I think we do.
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And so that's why I was very much
looking forward to bringing you on
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because you have some really nice
stuff in your profile that, that hit
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something for me, oh, I really like this.
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Things about Cleaning up
your communication clutter.
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Tell me a little bit about that
and why that's a big thing for you.
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Oreet Kaufman: Sure.
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John first I would say, I think it started
from me just being an impatient person.
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So I don't know whether it's adult a DD
or the fast social pace world we live in
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today, but I don't have a lot of patience.
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And so when I see a presentation
slide, I'm at a present.
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Wherever I'm at, a presentation and I
see so much information on the slide,
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I'm just, I think to myself, get to it
to the point, and I think we don't do
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that well enough in communications today.
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So while there's images and graphics and
help tell the story, it's the message
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at the core that is really important.
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So we think about that.
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Your audience only has three
to five seconds to look at your
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slide and get your message.
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Don't waste your audience's time.
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Don't waste their time
and get to the point.
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So it is a skill, it does take practice
to understand, to look at and say
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what's repetitive, what's redundant,
what is saying the same thing?
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What is bullets should really never
be more than two lines at the most.
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So you know, it's taking a look
at that and seeing how can we
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make it shorter, faster, and more
efficient, but still engaging your
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audience and not wasting their time.
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John: So there's, there is a
balance to be found here, right?
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Oreet Kaufman: Yeah, absolutely.
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John: let me ask you, 'cause
this is interesting to me.
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We've all met those people who overshare
or over deliver on, on information
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and is that what this is about or
is there other stuff going on here?
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Oreet Kaufman: Yeah, I think a lot of
times people write as they speak and
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that's a different communication skill.
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So I used to do it as well and it really
took a lot of practice for me to learn
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how to cut in my own communications.
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So I think when people
write as they speak.
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They don't understand what is the key
message, what are those key words?
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And really going through and
having your messaging to really
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say what are those key words?
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What's the key messages?
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What do you wanna leave your audience
with that they're going to remember?
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John: Do.
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Do you ever get clients who come to you
with a slideshow that they've already done
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and you look at it and go, oh my goodness,
Where do you begin the journey with them?
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Oreet Kaufman: So I did their permission
from them to get, to have the liberty
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to say, this is something that I'm
really good at and I really enjoy
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to be able to cut down your content.
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and with their permission, I will
take a look and say, if it's a
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service that they're offering or
if it's a product that they're
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offering, especially with services,
I try to pull out those keywords.
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So if you don't offer any.
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Repair and, diagnosis services.
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You still need to say,
diagnosis and repair.
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You don't need to go through and explain.
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So when I get content from a client, I,
first of all, let's try to understand what
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their goal is, what design outcome is.
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What are you trying to say with the slide?
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What are you trying to say
with the whole presentation?
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Then from there I'm able to say, okay,
you've got three lines in this bullet
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that really mean diagnosis and repair,
so let's pull that and everything else.
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I'll also ask it that's gonna be sent to
a client, or if it's gonna be presented
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live to know if I can put it in speaker
notes and say, just pull out diagnosis
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and repair and speak to the rest of it.
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Because all you're wanting your
clients to remember is the service
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you provide is diagnosis and repair.
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John: Yeah.
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I'm sure this isn't just your philosophy.
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There must be some sort of results you've
seen from making these kinds of changes.
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So what has been the kind of feedback
that you've had from people when
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you have helped them to clean up the
language that they use and make sure
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the communication is less cluttered?
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Oreet Kaufman: Yeah, so
about two different examples.
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One is from presentation designing is
where I've taken a lot of stats and a
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lot of data, and I've said, okay, what,
let's just pull that number out and,
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you have all this information on your
slide, but you already told me on this
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at the top of the slide, the key data.
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So just pull that out.
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The slide was crowded.
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The slide had two different charts on it.
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Again, all the information,
but I found buried in there.
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The key stats, I pulled it out.
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I highlighted just those numbers
with one line underneath it.
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I highlighted the key
fact and the reaction was.
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It was just astonishment.
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It was, we didn't realize
it was that simple.
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We didn't realize that's really
how we need to communicate.
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Again, three to five seconds, your
audience is looking all over your slide.
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They have no idea where
to look, what to do.
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Animation helps with that.
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Also, I recommend animation
sometimes with my clients to say.
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bringing little animation not a great
fan of over animation, but animate
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appropriately to drive the message.
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So if you have two statistics on your
slide, then animate one at a time so
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you can drive the message and you could
talk to that, statistics specifically.
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Another example I have is when I was
working at a sales organization about
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two years ago, I was part of a meeting
that was, meant to write instructions
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for our sellers on how to read a report.
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It was an hour long meeting.
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I'm not sure why exactly.
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I was in that meeting and the instructions
were pretty good except for the end.
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There were four bullet points and each
bullet started with the same word.
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And at the end they said, well,
re what would you suggest to
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add to these instructions?
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And I said, first thing I would do is
I would take out the first bullet of
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first word of each of those bullets.
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It's repetitive.
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If there's action you want from the
sellers, just start with that action one.
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They all start with the same word.
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Take that out.
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Start with an action word.
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Get to the point.
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These are sellers who
don't have a lot of time.
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Get to the points, with your
action words and minimize the
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words as much as possible.
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So.
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Small changes our communication and
engagement and understanding and
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ultimately driving those results.
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'cause that's what you want.
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John: Absolutely.
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I could see where that might come from.
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Trying to do a, do
slides the way we speak.
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Like there is a sort of rhetorical
technique when we speaking
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of repeating the same kind of
phrase to have more impact.
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But I think if you have a whole slide
series just like you wouldn't do that
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speaking, but definitely overdoing it.
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Is some of this a bit of, I don't
say laziness, but a bit of maybe
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people's lack of confidence sometimes.
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I've seen this as well where people,
rely, make the slideshow a bit of a
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crutch through their presentation.
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Is that kind of common as well?
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Oreet Kaufman: I then you've also
seen people reaving off slides,
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not just writing as they speak, but
also reading directly off of that.
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And I can guarantee you every person who
has watched a PowerPoint presentation
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where they have run off the slides,
you just wanna roll off your seat.
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You just wanna fall hard.
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So I think
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John: It painful.
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Yeah.
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Oreet Kaufman: people, I think a lot of
people do definitely use it as a crutch.
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You are the show, as the
speaker, you are the show.
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Your slides should support you and help
you tell the story, but not be the story.
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You are the story.
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So it's understanding that balance
between how much to put on the slide
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again between graphics and images
and whatnot, and the messaging.
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It also takes practice.
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So if you're a speaker and you're now
gonna adopt this word dieting, and you're
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gonna, put less words on the slide, let's
take practice to become comfortable with
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your message so it doesn't become a cru.
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You need to practice.
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You need to practice.
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If you have speaker notes, if you're doing
it at a keynote, there are large speakers.
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A lot of times there will
be, it's teleprompter.
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In front of you, it'll
show you the speaker note.
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Sir, this becomes adding more comfortable
with your message, and you're comfortable
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talking so that the slides behind you
are just, just sparks of information.
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John: Yeah, they're complimentary
rather than dependent.
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I like that.
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I love that expression you have
as well about word dieting.
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I'd heard it from you before
and thought, I love that.
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That's such a good, it's such good
IP for you to use that as well.
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but it's one of those things
that really stands out.
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are there some key principles
that you operate by?
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I know you already shared a bit, but
there's some more key principles you
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operate by that we could learn from?
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I would probably encourage people
to work with a professional like you
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on slideshows because, if you are.
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I think if you're wanting to stand
out from the crowd, self-made
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slideshows can look very self-made.
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But what if we're gonna do that?
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Maybe just someone starting out,
what are some of the best practices
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that we could apply to word dieting
and cleaning up our clutter?
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Oreet Kaufman: Absolutely.
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I would say like everyone has a little
bit of a teacher in them that loves
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to take out that proverbial red pen.
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I think we all enjoy a little bit of that.
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So I would say look at your own
work from, take a step back and
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look at it as if somebody's bringing
it to you is asking you for your
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own feedback, what would you cut?
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And I would say, look for repetition.
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Look for redundancies.
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When we say redundancies, example,
one of the examples I have in my,
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my handout is next quarter results
for Q2 are available online.
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Send 'em short.
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Right?
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But what do you say time wise?
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It's Q2.
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You don't need to say
next quarter results.
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Just say Q2.
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They're available online.
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The word available online,
they were available.
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another example I like to use is, She
drove in circles around the block.
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You, if she drove in circles,
she drove around the block.
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If she drove around the
block, she drove in circles.
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Look at your own work.
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See Okay.
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Until the step out.
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What seems repetitive?
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and again, that takes practice.
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It takes practice.
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I don't know, John, if I can
recommend an app, there was an
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app that helps you work on, um.
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John: please do.
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Oreet Kaufman: It's called Elevate.
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it's for adults and for kids.
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And one of the features I
have on there is brevity.
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So it will show you sentences like
she drove in circles around the
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block and will ask you to remove
the words that are redundant.
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And at a very basic level,
it's a fantastic exercise.
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It's fantastic.
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My son does it and he likes to challenge
me about and he'll say, okay, mommy,
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what don't you put out from here?
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And I thrive on a challenge
'cause it keeps my skills sheep.
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It
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reminds me of, other
instances and of brevity.
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So I probably recommend
that and just practice.
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'cause then you start to learn for
yourself what's redundant, what's extra.
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Oh, and it, a lot of the times
it's an aha moment and you get
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better at, it's so empowering.
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John: like anything, it takes practice.
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And, but I really like that.
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I'm, I, definitely gonna try that out.
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I don't know how many redundancies I
have in my general communication, but
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I'm keen to know, and I am someone who
cares about cleaning up, and being as
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clear in my communication as I can be.
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and I'll tell you one of the, one of the
things that, having been editing podcast
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interviews for a number of years now.
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I also feel like I've had the
privilege to be able to pick up a
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lot of my own idiosyncrasies and
redundancies in speaking, but also
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I think I do far less of the ums
and ahs that a lot of people do.
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And the, and it's and all these
filler words that, that really are
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unnecessary in a lot of how we speak.
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So this to me is a great
opportunity to, to take that a
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step further and do a little more.
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me ask you a bit though about, other
instances where people perhaps could
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use more imagery in, you mentioned
animation, but could we use more imagery
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instead of perhaps where we may be trying
to just put stuff in words, sometimes
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do a bit of visual storytelling.
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Oreet Kaufman: Yeah, absolutely.
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they say pictures worth a thousand words,
but don't just slap any picture on there.
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and don't make it a thousand words.
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So curating the record kind of photos,
I think to connect with your audience,
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a lot of times the photo needs to,
imagery needs to evoke in motion.
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It needs to evoke a connection.
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again, in today's technology world,
we're all seeking for connection.
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So it should be imagery that is
obviously appropriate to the topic.
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and really.
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minimal imagery as much
like on each slide.
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You don't wanna have competing images.
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again, three to five seconds and what you
want your audience to take away from it.
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What image are you trying
to evoke and what feeling?
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so let's say, think about that as well.
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So if you're a technology company, if
you're an environmental company, choosing
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that right imagery, to evoke not only
a feeling and a connection, I'm sorry.
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I would say no.
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I'm sorry to evoke that
feeling and emotion.
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that's really a lot of what the
core of what marketing is because
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good presentation is good marketing.
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It's a good marketing tool.
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And when you see these billboards and
you see these commercials, it's all about
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how you make you, how it makes you feel.
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So I always tell my kids what the
key you in marketing is this Excel
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and marketing is how you connect with
somebody and how it makes you feel.
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So I think there's really an importance
in choosing the word imagery for those
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John: Yeah, things that will
stick in people's minds as well.
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they'll feel that, but they'll also
remember it because it evoke to feeling.
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so yeah, it, it can be.
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magical stuff, there, there are.
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I will say there, there are
slide presentations I can reme.
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I certainly watched a lot of,
we all did during covid, right?
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We a lot of Zoom meetings and
a lot of times people would
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use slides and some of that.
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There are some I still remember
because they did it really
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well and the most part I don't.
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So the ones that do this well do really
stand out and will stick in your memory.
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sometimes because they had the
visual storytelling, they even used
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a little bit of humor and things
that, images that were really
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appropriate to what they were doing.
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Like it hadn't just been slapped together.
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Oreet Kaufman: I would
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people don't remember the words on a sign.
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People gonna remember you.
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Images.
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Nobody walks away with saying, I
really remember those words and
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how she made it so efficient and.
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They're gonna, that'll make them
understand and resonate with them.
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But what they walk away with and what
they're gonna remember is that image on
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the screen really connected me with their
message, really connected me with what
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their goal is, and what it means for me.
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John: Yeah.
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Look, I I can so relate to pretty
much everything you're saying.
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lot of.
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Patience when people are over
communicating or really struggling to
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get to the point and, dancing around
all of the houses before we get there.
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so things that are gonna make
things clearer for people,
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make you understood faster.
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Connect the ideas with people quicker,
and, really just make a bigger impact,
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I would say, in what you're doing.
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That's all got to be good.
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And if you are a professional.
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You want to come across as a professional
in what you do, then you should be making
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sure that your visual representations,
your tools are at that level as well.
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So I think what you do is super important.
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Can I ask you Yeah, go ahead.
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Oreet Kaufman: I, I think it also
sandwiches your credibility, right?
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It's like showing up, kinda like showing
up as a speaker in a wrinkled suit.
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So your presentation could be great and
you might have the greatest message, but
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if you show up in a wrinkled suit, and
that's all the people are gonna remember.
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So besides your imagery and the
visual storytelling, the clear,
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concise, and efficient messaging
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is what's gonna establish your
credibility, that you don't ramble on,
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that you don't read off the screen,
that your slides are not crowded, you
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are clear, you are professional, you
are confident, and that's really what
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presentation design is about in my
mind, is giving you the confidence to
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get up there and speak about the topic,
that you're the expert on that top.
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But this gives you the confidence to
get up there, not only to impress.
357
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Your audiences, but also get
the results you're looking for.
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Whether it's to change behavior,
whether it's to change, improve, not
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change knowledge, gain knowledge,
change behavior, learn something new.
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But it really gives you that
confidence and establishes your
361
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professionalism and your credibility.
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So it's, excuse me, it's very clear, like
with and without the presentation design,
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how you present yourself, that's really,
like I said earlier, it's a marketing
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tool and how you wanna put yourself
out to the world, to your audience.
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John: I like that there's, an area of
presentation, visual presentation where
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I maybe have been shifting my position
on this, and I'll share it with you.
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I'll put it with, put you this way.
368
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A lot of the coaching I've done to help
train speakers and help coach 'em to be
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better speakers, have better keynotes.
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I will nearly always will get asked about.
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slideshows and that should be used.
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Um, should we have them?
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how many should we have?
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All that kind of thing.
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And my general answer has been that
you should only really have them as a
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speaker if you really gonna need them,
if your presentation requires them.
377
00:19:07,282 --> 00:19:13,582
otherwise it's one of those additional
technical things that maybe you
378
00:19:13,582 --> 00:19:16,432
could do without, like, you have
to make sure everything's set up.
379
00:19:17,062 --> 00:19:19,192
Here's where I am maybe
a bit more with it now.
380
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if your visual storytelling, if your
slides are to the level that we're
381
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talking about here, that you've worked,
especially if you worked with someone
382
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like yourself where you know you're
gonna have a high quality expert
383
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looking, presentation, I think that's
only going to enhance what you do.
384
00:19:37,242 --> 00:19:43,012
And so it may look a bit different for
different talks, but I do think, you
385
00:19:43,012 --> 00:19:47,882
still probably want to be able to, if
all the technical stuff blows up, which
386
00:19:47,882 --> 00:19:51,512
you still need to be able to figure
out how you would deliver your talk
387
00:19:51,512 --> 00:19:54,872
without this, but that's maybe where
I've shifted my position a little bit.
388
00:19:54,917 --> 00:19:59,022
do you think, pretty much any presentation
could benefit from a good slideshow?
389
00:20:00,432 --> 00:20:02,802
Oreet Kaufman: I think it depends
on the kind of speaker that you are.
390
00:20:02,892 --> 00:20:07,332
So I think not all of us are dynamic,
high energy, engaging speakers.
391
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If you're a keynote.
392
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Even keynote speakers have
some visual slides behind them.
393
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I think, I'm gonna assume the majority
of us who are presenting are not high
394
00:20:16,637 --> 00:20:18,977
dynamic energy professional speakers.
395
00:20:19,427 --> 00:20:21,467
And I think you also do account
for the different types of
396
00:20:21,587 --> 00:20:23,057
learners in your audience.
397
00:20:23,357 --> 00:20:26,747
There are visual learners that are
auditory learners, and so even with the
398
00:20:26,747 --> 00:20:31,847
most engaging professional high energy
speakers, a lot of people in the audience
399
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need to see along with you talking.
400
00:20:34,672 --> 00:20:38,602
And so there's, again, striking
the balance between, it's not
401
00:20:38,722 --> 00:20:42,082
webinar type slides you're gonna
put up there as a keynote speaker.
402
00:20:42,502 --> 00:20:46,072
It's gonna be quick visuals, think
like the TED talks a little bit.
403
00:20:46,177 --> 00:20:49,732
it'll be Ted Talk presentation is
really just pictures and very few words.
404
00:20:50,167 --> 00:20:53,667
So those TED Talk speakers
are phenomenal speakers.
405
00:20:53,992 --> 00:20:57,307
and they use very little visuals in
the background to support their story.
406
00:20:57,667 --> 00:21:00,397
So I think to account for the different
types of people in the audience, it's
407
00:21:00,397 --> 00:21:02,347
always good to have some type of visual.
408
00:21:03,062 --> 00:21:05,417
but again, as we said earlier,
not to use it as a crutch.
409
00:21:05,957 --> 00:21:07,607
so I think like you can't hurt.
410
00:21:07,727 --> 00:21:09,017
I think it's always a good age.
411
00:21:10,322 --> 00:21:10,592
John: We.
412
00:21:11,277 --> 00:21:15,017
I guess it must be different for
every talk, but in general, is
413
00:21:15,017 --> 00:21:20,807
there an optimal level of slides to
have, let's say an average keynote
414
00:21:20,807 --> 00:21:23,507
presentation would be around 45 minutes.
415
00:21:23,987 --> 00:21:26,942
how many slides would be too
many, I guess is what I'm asking.
416
00:21:28,052 --> 00:21:28,742
Oreet Kaufman: Fewer the better.
417
00:21:28,982 --> 00:21:33,182
Because we live in a world of slides
and everybody knows the routine.
418
00:21:33,212 --> 00:21:35,732
Everybody knows what they might
expect, what might be coming.
419
00:21:36,207 --> 00:21:40,822
we generally did down lines around two
minutes per slide to speak to, so we
420
00:21:40,822 --> 00:21:43,132
would, I love to stay around 10 to 15.
421
00:21:43,132 --> 00:21:43,162
I.
422
00:21:43,547 --> 00:21:46,622
but I've had clients where for
annual sales calls, it's over a
423
00:21:46,622 --> 00:21:49,982
hundred slides because it's a four
hour call and it breaks it up.
424
00:21:49,982 --> 00:21:52,532
And sometimes that's just
what needs to happen.
425
00:21:52,862 --> 00:21:55,082
It's different departments
submitting content and you
426
00:21:55,082 --> 00:21:56,642
just have those types of calls.
427
00:21:57,182 --> 00:21:59,692
but I always err I'm fewer than more.
428
00:22:00,057 --> 00:22:04,017
because you should, especially for
pitch decks, let's say for example, it
429
00:22:04,017 --> 00:22:06,117
should really be no more than 15 slots.
430
00:22:06,117 --> 00:22:08,607
You need to get your message
across your problem, how you're
431
00:22:08,607 --> 00:22:12,067
solving it, your financing, and
all key elements of a pitch deck.
432
00:22:12,592 --> 00:22:15,067
but always tend to fewer than more.
433
00:22:15,127 --> 00:22:17,527
Don't create slides for the
sake of creating slides.
434
00:22:17,947 --> 00:22:20,257
More slides don't make
you look more intelligent.
435
00:22:20,827 --> 00:22:24,697
Better, smarter slides make you
look more intelligent and the way
436
00:22:24,697 --> 00:22:28,387
you use them will establish your
professionalism and credibility Again,
437
00:22:29,792 --> 00:22:34,412
John: do you feel that there is
or should be a difference between
438
00:22:34,442 --> 00:22:40,322
perhaps how much we use slides in
a live in person presentation to
439
00:22:40,382 --> 00:22:43,532
perhaps a virtual meeting or Zoom call
440
00:22:45,137 --> 00:22:45,407
Oreet Kaufman: no.
441
00:22:46,502 --> 00:22:47,252
John: should be the same.
442
00:22:47,772 --> 00:22:48,572
Oreet Kaufman: It should be the same.
443
00:22:48,632 --> 00:22:51,032
I think you should adapt it.
444
00:22:51,087 --> 00:22:53,162
I mean, it should be
treated as if it's the same.
445
00:22:53,212 --> 00:22:58,342
If you're gonna send me a PowerPoint to
read on my own, I'm less engaged for sure
446
00:22:58,372 --> 00:23:00,052
than if you were to present it to me live.
447
00:23:00,517 --> 00:23:04,867
So if you, I would say this, you're
sending out a presentation afterwards
448
00:23:04,867 --> 00:23:08,797
or in, instead of presenting it
live, make it as short as possible.
449
00:23:08,827 --> 00:23:13,627
Get it down to a one or two page summary,
because everybody is so busy and I don't
450
00:23:13,627 --> 00:23:17,577
wanna read your 26 page, PowerPoint
deck that you just sent me in an email
451
00:23:17,577 --> 00:23:19,287
and you need feedback on by tomorrow.
452
00:23:19,647 --> 00:23:20,727
It's not gonna happen.
453
00:23:21,052 --> 00:23:23,807
I generally, I would say
stick to the same length.
454
00:23:24,462 --> 00:23:27,852
of slides, whether it's presented
live or not, but certainly if you're
455
00:23:27,852 --> 00:23:32,622
gonna send it out only or even
afterwards, make an abbreviated version.
456
00:23:32,832 --> 00:23:33,972
Make it easy on everybody.
457
00:23:34,002 --> 00:23:35,292
Again, nobody has time.
458
00:23:36,442 --> 00:23:36,882
John: I like that.
459
00:23:37,327 --> 00:23:39,187
You may not have an answer, so
I don't know, because this is
460
00:23:39,187 --> 00:23:41,477
more about delivery, for online.
461
00:23:41,597 --> 00:23:46,667
But, is there like a best practice
that you are aware of for slide
462
00:23:46,667 --> 00:23:49,067
presentations on online presentations?
463
00:23:49,067 --> 00:23:53,267
Is there like a best way to do it or is
it just cool to have it just pretty much
464
00:23:53,267 --> 00:23:57,592
take over the screen and, what would
you say is the best way to present a
465
00:23:57,592 --> 00:23:59,932
slide deck and an online presentation?
466
00:24:01,487 --> 00:24:02,537
Oreet Kaufman: A lot of it is the same.
467
00:24:02,537 --> 00:24:05,207
I think you have to remember the
audience is not sitting in front of you.
468
00:24:05,327 --> 00:24:08,557
So when you're doing it on a
webinar, I think your engagement
469
00:24:08,557 --> 00:24:11,527
and the slides needs to be a little
bit more than if it was live.
470
00:24:11,527 --> 00:24:11,977
Actually, I.
471
00:24:11,977 --> 00:24:16,357
Because people are on camera, they're
off camera, they're multitasking,
472
00:24:16,357 --> 00:24:19,327
they're doing other things, versus
sitting alive in an audience where
473
00:24:19,327 --> 00:24:21,427
you have more of a captive tension.
474
00:24:21,942 --> 00:24:23,737
I would say, I think something
else that people tend to do
475
00:24:23,737 --> 00:24:24,997
a lot is they over animate.
476
00:24:25,087 --> 00:24:27,757
Because again, it looks, people
think it looks impressive.
477
00:24:27,817 --> 00:24:31,267
So especially in a webinar setting,
I'm gonna over animate and make
478
00:24:31,267 --> 00:24:35,587
it look fancy and I'm gonna put a
lot of bullets on the screen when
479
00:24:35,587 --> 00:24:39,452
really it's understanding that, all
heard it, that less is more Animate
480
00:24:39,692 --> 00:24:44,192
appropriately to drive your message and
to so that you can drive the message.
481
00:24:44,612 --> 00:24:48,242
Animate for effect, don't over
animate for the sake of animating.
482
00:24:48,242 --> 00:24:51,992
And I think in webinars and zooms,
a lot of people think because their
483
00:24:51,992 --> 00:24:55,382
audience is just sitting behind their
computer, they're just gonna, I.
484
00:24:55,997 --> 00:25:01,077
it, I feel like it's, it feels a little
more permissive in that kind of setting to
485
00:25:01,077 --> 00:25:05,227
over animate, and I just get that reaction
and that that kind of gut feeling.
486
00:25:05,227 --> 00:25:08,167
People feel that permission to
over animate and really don't,
487
00:25:08,182 --> 00:25:08,542
John: Yeah.
488
00:25:08,542 --> 00:25:08,752
Yeah.
489
00:25:08,752 --> 00:25:12,402
Look, I, you, my, my brain's going
back to early age of PowerPoint,
490
00:25:12,402 --> 00:25:14,562
particularly when Keynote came out
491
00:25:14,607 --> 00:25:14,897
Oreet Kaufman: yeah.
492
00:25:15,402 --> 00:25:19,467
John: for and end up, I can remember
going to presentations and seeing the
493
00:25:19,467 --> 00:25:25,422
worst animations and, transitions between
slides as well, because it was all
494
00:25:25,442 --> 00:25:30,037
new and people were having fun playing
with it, but they looked horrific.
495
00:25:30,142 --> 00:25:31,912
Oreet Kaufman: Yeah, and it's
really only three or four
496
00:25:31,912 --> 00:25:33,412
animations that are effective.
497
00:25:33,487 --> 00:25:37,332
PowerPoint gets you so excited that
there's so much you can do, and go there
498
00:25:37,332 --> 00:25:40,662
and try all of them, but it's about
knowing which ones are the most effective,
499
00:25:40,662 --> 00:25:43,812
the most common, and there's a reason
that they're the most common because
500
00:25:43,812 --> 00:25:45,882
they're minimal and they're effective.
501
00:25:45,912 --> 00:25:48,312
You think transitions between slides also.
502
00:25:48,897 --> 00:25:51,657
There's so much fun stuff you can
do there, And my daughter, when she
503
00:25:51,657 --> 00:25:55,137
was in high school, was making a
presentation and she played with all the
504
00:25:55,137 --> 00:25:56,967
transitions and I was like, what's great?
505
00:25:57,267 --> 00:25:59,997
But I have no idea what you're
trying to say in the presentation
506
00:26:00,027 --> 00:26:03,327
'cause I'm so distracted by all
the animations and transitions.
507
00:26:03,327 --> 00:26:07,207
So it's really not knowing your
audience and really, I just putting
508
00:26:07,207 --> 00:26:10,327
yourself in the audience's seat to
say, is this something that you would
509
00:26:10,327 --> 00:26:12,097
wanna sit through, it's fun to make?
510
00:26:12,817 --> 00:26:14,317
this something that you wanna sit through?
511
00:26:14,857 --> 00:26:16,957
And again, three to five seconds.
512
00:26:17,047 --> 00:26:18,457
Don't distract your audience.
513
00:26:18,457 --> 00:26:22,627
Don't waste their time on, on any
effective transitions and animations.
514
00:26:22,627 --> 00:26:23,707
Use it effectively.
515
00:26:23,707 --> 00:26:28,957
Practice, try out different ones,
but then Use ones that are subtle and
516
00:26:28,957 --> 00:26:30,427
that, and then help drive the message.
517
00:26:31,732 --> 00:26:36,062
John: You have brought me to a another
question and I'm curious what your
518
00:26:36,062 --> 00:26:40,007
answer will be to this as keynote
speakers or workshop leaders or,
519
00:26:40,032 --> 00:26:44,532
standard presentations that we may have,
might there be times where we want to
520
00:26:44,622 --> 00:26:49,552
change the slideshow a little bit, for
going to perhaps different audiences.
521
00:26:52,447 --> 00:26:54,612
Oreet Kaufman: I think when we
say know your audience is no.
522
00:26:55,377 --> 00:26:56,097
Who they are.
523
00:26:56,097 --> 00:26:57,267
Is it a corporate audience?
524
00:26:57,267 --> 00:26:58,707
Is it a technical audience?
525
00:26:58,707 --> 00:27:00,267
Is it an artistic audience?
526
00:27:00,567 --> 00:27:03,387
Is an audience that tech that
usually works mostly with,
527
00:27:03,777 --> 00:27:05,857
visuals, who are you speaking to?
528
00:27:05,857 --> 00:27:09,197
One of my favorite clients to work
with are engineers because they're
529
00:27:09,197 --> 00:27:13,577
very technical, but when it comes to
communication and marketing in that sense,
530
00:27:13,892 --> 00:27:15,692
they just overload the slides.
531
00:27:16,112 --> 00:27:19,412
And so it's knowing who are
you talking to and what do they
532
00:27:19,412 --> 00:27:21,512
need to know at that moment?
533
00:27:21,512 --> 00:27:24,002
What is the most important information
that's really for everybody?
534
00:27:24,002 --> 00:27:24,962
What do they need to know?
535
00:27:24,962 --> 00:27:25,922
Where do I find it?
536
00:27:26,512 --> 00:27:29,062
but the tone might need to change.
537
00:27:29,062 --> 00:27:31,882
The language you use might need
to change based on the audience.
538
00:27:31,882 --> 00:27:32,482
Certainly.
539
00:27:32,897 --> 00:27:36,482
you don't wanna have a one slide, one
presentation fits all because that
540
00:27:36,482 --> 00:27:40,292
means, in my opinion that you don't
really care about your audience as much.
541
00:27:40,292 --> 00:27:43,712
You're just gonna slap and paste
the same presentation to everybody.
542
00:27:44,012 --> 00:27:47,012
And it might not be big changes,
but it could be subtle changes in
543
00:27:47,012 --> 00:27:50,402
terms of, like I said, the wording
that you use, the tree that you use.
544
00:27:50,877 --> 00:27:54,342
it just deserves a review before you
go to the next audience to see what
545
00:27:54,342 --> 00:27:57,012
needs to be different to resonate
with this particular audience.
546
00:27:57,577 --> 00:28:00,502
John: so I guess then that's an
important part of the conversation for
547
00:28:00,502 --> 00:28:02,332
you to have with one of your clients.
548
00:28:02,332 --> 00:28:05,147
So who is, or who are
your audiences in general?
549
00:28:05,147 --> 00:28:07,482
who is this, who is this mostly going to?
550
00:28:07,842 --> 00:28:13,122
Because if they're saying, oh, like I
mostly speak to engineers and mechanics
551
00:28:13,122 --> 00:28:16,277
and all like, is gonna be a little bit
different until I, I go to a lot of
552
00:28:16,277 --> 00:28:18,557
creatives, I go to big corporates or
553
00:28:19,237 --> 00:28:19,472
Oreet Kaufman: Right, right.
554
00:28:19,862 --> 00:28:19,982
The
555
00:28:20,207 --> 00:28:21,137
John: it is gonna matter.
556
00:28:21,752 --> 00:28:22,052
Oreet Kaufman: Yeah,
557
00:28:22,472 --> 00:28:25,262
and I think from on sales it's
training experience, I learned how to
558
00:28:25,262 --> 00:28:29,432
really, fine tune that communications
to say what is the least amount of
559
00:28:29,432 --> 00:28:31,592
information they need to do their job.
560
00:28:31,982 --> 00:28:34,352
versus corporate will
want more explanations.
561
00:28:34,352 --> 00:28:37,022
Corporate will want more of the
reasoning and the data behind it.
562
00:28:37,437 --> 00:28:40,552
sellers will just, you I, the
example of parking lot training
563
00:28:40,612 --> 00:28:42,382
in my old organization is that.
564
00:28:42,652 --> 00:28:46,762
I used to design the training mostly
as a one-pager as much as possible to
565
00:28:46,762 --> 00:28:51,712
say which case scenario you are in the
parking lot of a customer, what is the
566
00:28:51,712 --> 00:28:55,882
least amount of information you need to
know to go and have that conversation
567
00:28:55,882 --> 00:28:57,712
with a customer to close that sale?
568
00:28:58,102 --> 00:29:02,482
So it is knowing what your audience
needs, how they communicate with their
569
00:29:02,842 --> 00:29:05,832
customers, with their, audiences as well.
570
00:29:08,287 --> 00:29:11,887
John: I really like your take on
all of this, and I can see that
571
00:29:11,887 --> 00:29:17,377
the benefits of this level of
clarity go far beyond just what.
572
00:29:17,762 --> 00:29:22,262
You deliver on a slide deck, into
hopefully helping people to improve
573
00:29:22,342 --> 00:29:23,992
their general communication.
574
00:29:23,992 --> 00:29:27,052
I think it's always good to
remove redundancies and clutter
575
00:29:27,052 --> 00:29:30,647
in our conversation and, and help
people have more clarity and to
576
00:29:30,647 --> 00:29:34,327
be honest, in, in particularly
professional settings, time is money.
577
00:29:34,327 --> 00:29:34,867
After all.
578
00:29:34,897 --> 00:29:37,777
You hear people saying that
all the time, and yet how much
579
00:29:37,777 --> 00:29:40,297
time gets wasted from people.
580
00:29:40,707 --> 00:29:45,297
Not being able to explain themself
or giving too much information or so,
581
00:29:45,297 --> 00:29:49,857
so I think what you're doing could
be very impactful, beyond, beyond
582
00:29:49,857 --> 00:29:51,747
just having an amazing slideshow.
583
00:29:52,947 --> 00:29:57,617
If someone's wanting to come
and work with you, how could
584
00:29:57,617 --> 00:29:59,177
they find out more about you?
585
00:29:59,257 --> 00:30:01,387
how would you start that process thinking?
586
00:30:01,387 --> 00:30:04,747
All right, I want Oreet to help
me get some clarity and do have
587
00:30:04,747 --> 00:30:06,407
an amazing visual presentation.
588
00:30:07,357 --> 00:30:07,987
Oreet Kaufman: Absolutely.
589
00:30:07,987 --> 00:30:11,197
So they can reach out through
the website or through LinkedIn.
590
00:30:11,332 --> 00:30:14,887
and we'll have a conversation
so I can understand the project
591
00:30:14,887 --> 00:30:16,267
and the scope of the project.
592
00:30:16,267 --> 00:30:16,897
Again, getting to.
593
00:30:16,987 --> 00:30:21,127
The why giving to the audience,
understand the logistics and timing.
594
00:30:21,457 --> 00:30:27,617
And, then what, once we start the
process, then we, I put together
595
00:30:27,617 --> 00:30:29,057
what's called a creative preview.
596
00:30:29,267 --> 00:30:32,777
So I'll send you three to four slides
to make sure we're heading in the
597
00:30:32,777 --> 00:30:36,347
right direction to make sure, you
get input from you if there's a type
598
00:30:36,347 --> 00:30:38,637
of, presentation style that you like.
599
00:30:38,637 --> 00:30:41,907
If it's more modern or more traditional,
whatever it might be, if there's something
600
00:30:41,907 --> 00:30:43,047
out there you've seen that you like.
601
00:30:43,927 --> 00:30:47,732
That creative preview sets the
foundation for, presentation.
602
00:30:47,732 --> 00:30:51,542
So that's your chance of the creative
preview to say, and I tell my clients,
603
00:30:51,542 --> 00:30:55,802
please tell me honestly, because
this is your project, love it.
604
00:30:56,402 --> 00:30:57,932
Change this, change that.
605
00:30:58,347 --> 00:31:01,472
and it might take one or two rounds
different creative directions
606
00:31:01,532 --> 00:31:03,902
to, to make sure that I'm
producing something that you like.
607
00:31:04,472 --> 00:31:06,902
And then from there we'll do
draft reviews and finality.
608
00:31:07,347 --> 00:31:10,707
projects typically take two to
three weeks based on how fast the
609
00:31:10,707 --> 00:31:12,207
client response with feedback.
610
00:31:12,597 --> 00:31:15,507
Some take longer based on, again,
everybody's different timelines.
611
00:31:15,757 --> 00:31:17,122
it's really quite and smooth process.
612
00:31:18,612 --> 00:31:19,132
John: Fantastic.
613
00:31:19,147 --> 00:31:23,437
and you've created a helpful
resource that for the audience as
614
00:31:23,437 --> 00:31:24,907
well could tell us a bit about that.
615
00:31:25,722 --> 00:31:28,242
Oreet Kaufman: Yeah, so according
a resource that's on my site, it
616
00:31:28,242 --> 00:31:31,242
talks about the redundant hardware
cutback, the redundancies in
617
00:31:31,242 --> 00:31:32,562
petition we've been talking about.
618
00:31:32,562 --> 00:31:34,602
It's I word dieting, chips.
619
00:31:35,442 --> 00:31:38,702
And it's three tips with examples,
that you can practice today and
620
00:31:38,747 --> 00:31:43,222
see the before and after, of
cutting, cutting out extra content.
621
00:31:43,282 --> 00:31:45,112
And so that is on my website.
622
00:31:45,112 --> 00:31:47,122
You can download it
directly from the site.
623
00:31:47,537 --> 00:31:48,362
and it's really a good start.
624
00:31:48,572 --> 00:31:49,622
It's a good starting tips.
625
00:31:49,917 --> 00:31:52,452
and certainly if you need
help, let's connect and, I can
626
00:31:52,452 --> 00:31:53,352
help you take that from there.
627
00:31:54,142 --> 00:31:57,277
John: I'll certainly be making sure
that the information for your website
628
00:31:57,277 --> 00:32:01,087
has to get in contact with you and
for your word dieting tips is gonna
629
00:32:01,087 --> 00:32:03,697
be in the show notes for anyone
who wants to go and check that out.
630
00:32:03,697 --> 00:32:08,167
So do take a look at the show notes
and, uh, go and visit Oreet's site
631
00:32:08,167 --> 00:32:10,777
and get yourself, at least get
yourself that helpful resource.
632
00:32:10,987 --> 00:32:14,347
Maybe find out how cool it would be to
work with someone who's gonna help you.
633
00:32:14,577 --> 00:32:17,787
clean up your communication
clutter and go on a word diet.
634
00:32:18,387 --> 00:32:21,207
That's sounds like the kind of
diet I could actually stick to.
635
00:32:21,207 --> 00:32:22,167
So I like that Rick.
636
00:32:23,307 --> 00:32:23,757
Perfect.
637
00:32:23,847 --> 00:32:25,977
It is been an absolute pleasure
having you on the show.
638
00:32:26,007 --> 00:32:26,997
I love some of what you're doing.
639
00:32:26,997 --> 00:32:30,957
I'm so on board with it and, I'm so
happy that you impatience led you to
640
00:32:30,957 --> 00:32:35,337
do something so cool and that you're
helping lots of people have much better
641
00:32:35,337 --> 00:32:36,987
visual storytelling in their talks.
642
00:32:37,377 --> 00:32:39,987
Really appreciate you coming and
being a guest on Present Influence.
643
00:32:39,987 --> 00:32:40,257
Thanks.
644
00:32:40,257 --> 00:32:40,437
Re.
645
00:32:40,977 --> 00:32:41,867
Oreet Kaufman: Thank you so much, John.
646
00:32:41,867 --> 00:32:42,557
It was a pleasure.
647
00:32:42,787 --> 00:32:44,527
John: I just wanted to close things
off today and just say there's been
648
00:32:44,527 --> 00:32:45,967
a lot of exciting stuff happening.
649
00:32:46,207 --> 00:32:49,567
If you haven't already checked out my
last episode, that is where you can
650
00:32:49,567 --> 00:32:54,757
see my very first ever attempt at open
mic standup comedy, as well as my first
651
00:32:54,757 --> 00:32:57,727
ever speaker slam storytelling event.
652
00:32:58,127 --> 00:33:01,067
Some significant and important
firsts for me over recent times,
653
00:33:01,067 --> 00:33:02,027
and I'm sharing them with you.
654
00:33:02,207 --> 00:33:02,747
There's gonna be more.
655
00:33:03,157 --> 00:33:04,387
Please look forward to those.
656
00:33:04,567 --> 00:33:07,527
And I'm happy to say they went pretty
well but there's also plenty of
657
00:33:07,527 --> 00:33:09,027
room for growth and development.
658
00:33:09,367 --> 00:33:13,267
So I don't come here on this podcast as
the perfect, I've got it all figured out,
659
00:33:13,327 --> 00:33:16,177
hey, look at me on I great kind of person.
660
00:33:16,387 --> 00:33:19,717
I'm on this journey as well
and sharing it with you.
661
00:33:19,957 --> 00:33:23,337
So I see this as being where we
can grow and develop together.
662
00:33:23,547 --> 00:33:26,907
Whatever level you're at right now, just
know there's always another level for
663
00:33:26,907 --> 00:33:29,517
growth and development for you and for me.
664
00:33:29,577 --> 00:33:32,197
And there should be, that's what
we want the day we stop growing
665
00:33:32,197 --> 00:33:35,897
and learning, is the day that we
start going in the other direction.
666
00:33:35,897 --> 00:33:36,797
And that's not good.
667
00:33:36,827 --> 00:33:38,657
We don't want to, we really
want to think about that.
668
00:33:38,967 --> 00:33:42,207
But let's wrap things up there for today
and if you're not already subscribed to
669
00:33:42,207 --> 00:33:46,347
the show, please make sure that you do
and why not leave us a five star review?
670
00:33:46,437 --> 00:33:50,247
It always makes my day to see them and it
helps other people to know that this is
671
00:33:50,247 --> 00:33:52,707
a good quality podcast worth tuning into.
672
00:33:53,317 --> 00:33:56,587
It's been my pleasure speaking with you
today, and I will look forward to seeing
673
00:33:56,587 --> 00:33:58,567
you on our next episode back on Friday.
674
00:33:58,657 --> 00:33:59,137
See you then.
675
00:33:59,137 --> 00:33:59,557
Take care.
