Today, we’re diving into the heartfelt intersection of mental health and creativity with the incredibly inspiring Robert B-Cide Cardillo Jr. This episode is all about checking in on our mental well-being as creative souls, because let’s face it, we need it! Robert shares his raw and real journey navigating life with multiple sclerosis, turning struggle into art, and how music has been his therapy. We’re getting deep, but we’re also keeping it light, exploring the balance between dealing with our challenges and expressing ourselves through creativity. Join us as we unpack the importance of mental health in the artistic process and how we can support each other on this wild ride of life!

Guest Bio

Robert “B-Cide” Cardillo II is a rapper, producer, clothing designer, and author of Myelin My Shoes, a memoir about life, music, and resilience after being diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. With over two decades in the underground scene, he shares raw, real stories about perseverance, creativity, and pushing forward when life hits hard.

Guest Links

• https://www.myelinmyshoes.com/
• http://www.b-cide.com
• https://bcide.bandcamp.com
• Instagram: @bcide
• Facebook: facebook.com/bcide
• TikTok: @bcide
• YouTube: youtube.com/@btvstudio

In a heartfelt and illuminating conversation on our latest podcast episode, we sat down with artist and author Robert B-Cide Cardillo Jr. to discuss the intersection of mental health and creativity. This dialogue dives deep into how challenges, such as living with multiple sclerosis (MS), can shape one's creative journey and provide new perspectives.

A Shared Experience

Robert and Timothy began by finding common ground in their MS diagnoses. They shared personal stories of symptoms, diagnosis journeys, and the impact MS has had on their lives and creativity. The discussion highlighted the importance of listening to one's body and the need to stay positive despite the challenges that MS can present.

Creativity as Therapy

Throughout the conversation, Robert emphasized how creativity serves as a therapeutic outlet, providing solace and a sense of normalcy amid the daily struggles of living with MS. He spoke candidly about his use of music and writing to process and articulate his experiences, turning them into art that resonates with others going through similar journeys.

The Power of Storytelling

Robert recently published a book titled "Myelin My Shoes," a clever play on words reflecting the myelin sheath affected by MS. The book offers a deeply personal narrative that captures both his life before and after his MS diagnosis, underscoring the transformative power of storytelling. In conjunction with the book, Robert has released a complementary soundtrack, illustrating how his musical talents enhance the storytelling experience.

Navigating the Stigma

The conversation also touched on the societal perceptions of MS and other disabilities. Robert shared his experiences around the stigma he faces and how he uses his platform to challenge misconceptions. For him, creating music and writing isn't just about self-expression but also a way to educate and change narratives around living with disabilities.

Embracing Challenges and Moving Forward

Despite the obstacles he faces, Robert remains proactive in his creative endeavors. He keeps himself engaged and motivated by pursuing new projects, such as podcast appearances and continuing to write music. This resilience not only serves his mental well-being but also provides inspiration for those around him.

Conclusion

Robert B-Cide Cardillo Jr.'s journey showcases the enduring connection between mental health and creativity. His story is a testament to how arts can offer a means of coping and healing while also serving to connect and inspire others. By sharing his journey with honesty and passion, Robert reminds us all that while challenges might be inevitable, our responses to them define us.

Join us as we continue to explore the dynamic blend of mental health and creativity, bringing you stories and conversations that inspire and uplift. If you'd like to learn more about Robert's book "Myelin My Shoes" or listen to the soundtrack, check the links in our show notes.

Immediate Crisis Support (U.S.)

• 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline – Dial 988 or visit

https://988lifeline.org

• Crisis Text Line – Text HOME to 741741

• Veterans Crisis Line – Dial 988, then press 1

Artist-Specific Mental Health Resources

• Artists’ Mental Health Alliance – A coalition offering

education, support, and mental health resources tailored for performing and

visual artists. (https://www.artistsmhalliance.com)

• The Actors Fund (Now: Entertainment Community Fund) –

Provides mental health counseling, workshops, and financial assistance to

artists in performing arts and entertainment.

(https://entertainmentcommunity.org/services/mental-health)

• MusiCares – A Grammy-affiliated nonprofit offering mental

health services, financial assistance, and addiction recovery for music

professionals. (https://www.musicares.org/)

• Creative Capital – Offers professional development and

mental health webinars for artists, especially those facing burnout and

creative fatigue. (https://creative-capital.org)

• Backline – Provides mental health and wellness resources

for musicians and their families. Offers free case management.

(https://backline.care)

• NAMI - Arts Initiative – Connects artists and art

communities with mental health advocacy and support tools.

(https://www.nami.org/Get-Involved/NAMI-Programs/NAMI-Compartiendo-Esperanza/NAMI-Frontline-Wellness/Creative-Outlets)

• Mindful Art Studio – Offers online art-based mental

wellness workshops and journaling classes designed by a licensed art therapist.

(https://mindfulartstudio.com)

Wellness Apps & Tools for Creatives

• Headspace or Calm – Meditation apps useful for managing

anxiety and creative blocks.

• Moodpath – Mental health journal and symptom tracker.

• Insight Timer – Free guided meditations for stress,

anxiety, sleep, and creativity.

Peer Support & Communities

• The Mighty - Creators with Mental Illness –

https://themighty.com

• Art & Healing Network – https://artheals.org

• Creative Mornings FieldTrips –

https://creativemornings.com/fieldtrips

Books on Mental Health & Creativity

• The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron

• Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert

• It’s OK That You’re Not OK by Megan Devine

• The War of Art by Steven Pressfield

How do I get such great guests?

PodMatch I use Podmatch to get the best guests on the show. Check out PodMatch if you want to guest on other podcasts or if you have a podcast and need guests for your show. Guests from Podmatch

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Use Podcast Beacon for the best NFS products to share your podcast while out and about or at conferences.

Reach Out To The Podcast

To reach out to me, email timothy@createartpodcast.com I would love to hear about your journey and what you are working on. If you would like to be on the show or have me discuss a topic that is giving you trouble write in and let's start that conversation.

• Email: timothy@createartpodcast.com
• YouTube Channel: Create Art Podcast YT Channel
• IG: @createartpodcast
• Twitter: @createartpod

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Speaking about sharing with a friend, check out my other podcast Find A Podcast About where I help you outsmart the algorithm and find your next binge-worthy podcast. You can find that podcast at findapodcastabout.xyz.

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Let me know what you think about the podcast by taking a survey. 2024 Listener Survey yes it is 2025, but hey I am late to the game on this. Thank you ahead of time to help me make this more of what you are wanting to hear.

Takeaways:

• Mental health is crucial for creatives; we need to check in with ourselves regularly, folks!
• Robert Bside Cardillo Jr. shares his inspiring journey with MS, blending art and resilience beautifully.
• Creativity can be a powerful tool for mental health; use it to express and process emotions.
• Don't shy away from sharing your struggles through art; it can resonate deeply with others.

So today we're going to be talking about a little touchy feely on this episode.

I think want to make sure that you as a listener are okay and you know, as a creative person, we need to check on our mental health.

So that's what we're going to be reminding you of here.

Today on this episode of Create Art Podcast, we're going to talk about mental health and creativity with a special guest, Robert Bside Cardillo Jr. Hello, friend.

This is Timothy Keem O', Brien, your head instigator for Create Art Podcast.

We're where I bring my over 30 years of experience of arts and education to you to help you tame that inner critic and create more than you consume.

So I've started up a new series and it's called the New Artist Compass.

And what I'm hoping to do with this series is to give new artists the tools that they they need in order to have a successful and enjoyable artistic journey for themselves.

Now, not going to be doing interviews per se, and this episode is a conversation on mental health and creativity and I'll be talking with Robert Bside Cardillo Jr. And basically this one, I usually with interviews, you know, I kind of cut it up and all that good stuff.

This one I just let the tape roll on it because there's a lot of things in here that station because, well, if you cut up too much stuff and it gets messy and the message doesn't come clearly.

So let me tell you a little bit about Mr. B side here and then we'll get right into the conversation.

Now, B side is a rapper, he's a producer, clothing designer, and he's the author of Mylon My Shoes.

That's a memoir about his life, music and resilience after being diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.

He's got over two decades in the underground music rap scene and he shares raw, real stories about perseverance, creativity, and pushing forward when life gets hard.

Now, like I said, he's got a book out.

It's called Mylan My Shoes and Myelin is M y e L I n m y s H o E S mylonmyshoes.com is where you can get the book.

I got a copy of the book.

Now he's also got a album out, vinyl, I know, and you can pre order it if it's not already sold out.

You're going to get all of the links in the show notes.

So make sure that you check out the show notes for this.

All right, I'm going to step out of the Way.

And I'm going to let you to listen to the conversation, raw and uncut, that I had with my new friend, Robert Bside.

And that's B, C, I, d, E. Cardillo Jr. You can hear me.

Okay.

Right.

I hear you absolutely perfectly.

How do you hear me?

Oh, really good.

Really good.

All right, good.

That's all that matters.

If we can hear each other, that's all that matters.

Anybody else can go screw themselves.

Yep, absolutely.

I can already tell this is going to be great.

Yeah, this is gonna be a good one.

It's always good to meet somebody who has the same kind of condition you have, because especially when they look at it a certain way.

You know what I mean?

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah, I know.

For me, I've got relapsing, remitting.

Me too.

Oh, you too.

Okay.

All right.

Yep.

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

Oh, we kind of knew.

They found some lesions.

Oh.

And that was back when I went to the va and they were like, it might be ms, it might not.

We're not sure.

Yeah, don't worry about that.

Sucks.

That really sucks.

My.

My whole encounter with it.

My whole left arm is.

Had been numb for years.

Oh, man.

Just years.

And I just thought I had a pinch nerve and I was going to like a chiropractor and stuff like that.

I'm thinking, oh, you know, maybe it'll get worked out.

It'll get worked out.

And then it just never got worked out, you know?

And then other things started going wrong to.

To the point where I didn't see a doctor until my midsection went numb.

Oh, man.

And then I'm like, yeah.

I'm like, yeah, nah, we can't deal with that.

No.

I'm like, I gotta see what's going on now.

Oh, man.

Man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's weird because you look back and you're like, was this a symptom of ms?

Was that a symptom of ms?

You kind of second guessing yourself all the time?

Yep, yep.

Like, actually, I remember when I was younger, I used to have horrible balance it.

And I don't know why, like, I would just like, almost like bobble a little bit and like, have to hold on to something.

And you wonder like, is that something a symptom of like the ms?

Or is it the way my toes are, or is it the way I walk or, you know, who knows?

But I. I always think about that.

Like, that could have been, like, a first symptom that popped up when I was real young, and I would have never even thought about it, you know?

Yeah, you never know, man.

You never know.

Yeah.

Never know.

Yeah.

Well, today we're going to be talking about mental health and in our creative practice and how we can use our creative practice for our mental health to improve it.

Now, you may be aware you might not be.

June is mental health awareness month for men.

Oh, okay.

And, you know, obviously we're recording this in July, and that's okay.

And this will probably go out in October.

I'm moving all my stuff back about.

About a month or two.

But you'll definitely get a.

You'll get.

I'll get this edited and get it out to you.

And, you know, one thing I tell all my folks is this.

If there's something in there that you're like, hey, Tim, yank it out.

I yank it out.

Oh, no, we never do that here.

I never do that here.

You never do that?

No, I never do that.

So I'm never gonna have you yank anything out.

It's live, baby.

Okay.

All right.

And the funny thing is, nobody says, hey, Tim, yank this out to me.

Yeah, yeah, it's all good, man.

Cool.

Cool.

Yeah.

Well, like I said, I just want this to be a conversation between, you know, two guys, and obviously two guys that have something very specific in common, so.

Right, right.

I guess I'd like to probably start off with one of the things, because, you know, you're.

You're in hip hop and you see a lot of stuff on stage and all that.

And one of the things that, I don't know, it kind of grinds my gears a little bit, if I can use that phrase.

Yeah, yeah.

But, you know, sometimes when people, you know, go on stage now, I do performance, poet, and that kind of stuff, but kind of when they go on stage and they do kind of art therapy on stage in front of everybody, and I don't know, I just kind of.

I'm like, when you're going through something, do you put that right on stage or do you kind of work through it to get it to a point where, A, it's entertaining for the people, and B, you can get your message out a lot better versus somebody getting on stage breaking out in tears because they do the.

Well, my dad died last night, and I wrote this poem, and they're a blubbering mess.

And I'm like, I feel bad for you, but I'm kind of here to be entertained.

Right.

And all that kind of jazz.

How do you feel about, you know, when people use this stage as their psychiatrist couch or something like that?

Well, I mean, the way I've always processed stuff is I've always kind of written it down and turned it into a song or something along those lines.

I wouldn't go on stage just, like, bare bones without knowing, you know, what's kind of going on, so.

And actually, I'm not really familiar with people going up and just doing, you know, like, performance art like that where I'm at.

That's.

That's really not a thing.

Or unless maybe it is now, and I just don't get out because of the Ms.

But, no, I. I would always just process my thoughts and write it down on paper or now, you know, in my phone, and that's kind of how I process things.

That makes sense to me because.

Yeah, because, I mean, you know, you and I.

And again, you know, just for every.

You know, for my listener out there.

This is the first time that we're meeting.

Yes.

Yes, this is the first time that we're meeting.

But, you know, obviously you've gone through stuff that I can definitely relate with.

I've gone through stuff that you can relate with.

And my thing is that if I go on stage or when I go on stage, I want to make sure that that message gets out literally to everybody.

You know, maybe I'm not beating them over the head with a hammer, but I don't want to be up there a blubbering mess, just going, boohoo on me, and.

And people are just like, oh, it'll be okay.

Right, Right.

No, I don't kind of want people to feel sorry for me while I'm on stage.

I kind of want it to be entertaining and want people to.

For they are.

Yeah.

If that makes sense.

No, it absolutely does.

I mean, that's why people.

You know, there's so many.

It's funny, you brought up something that, you know, you write it on the page and now you write in on your phone.

Yeah, we're of a certain age.

Yeah.

That.

Yeah.

You know, we didn't have those phones.

You know, we wrote it down on a piece of paper.

Yeah.

You work it out beforehand, then, you know, you.

You kind of know where you're going from point A to point B and.

Yep.

What you want the audience to get out of it.

Yeah.

I actually.

I actually miss margins.

That's what I miss.

I miss the margins of the pages, like the top half margin and everything, because I just jot down things.

Yeah.

And.

And, you know, that's how I do it.

But now on the phone, it's like, with the ms, it's so much easier because I can talk into it.

I can just type a little bit, and it's just easier that way.

It is weird doing the whole talking into your phone.

I do that with text messages now, you know.

Me too.

Every.

Every morning, I.

One of the first things I do once I get to work is, you know, I'll send a text to my wife saying, hey, I got in safe.

You know, because I commute every day from Fredericksburg to D.C. oh, okay.

And.

And that is a hellacious community.

Wow.

I'm sure it is, because I've been around there, so I. I know that I'm familiar kind of with the area.

Okay, good deal.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I've been to, like, Washington, Virginia, all that stuff over there.

Yep.

Virginia.

It's not for lovers or drivers.

Sweet.

Sweet.

So when.

When you're.

No, I. I know when I'm on stage, but when you're on stage or when you're.

You're.

You're doing a performance, either, you know, with, like, you know, maybe doing it on YouTube or all the channels that we have now, what do you want to get.

What do you want the audience to get from the message that you're putting out there?

Well, I. I want them to, you know, take something out of it where they're going to feel what I'm saying and maybe turn it into something for their own life or turn it.

Turn some situation that I've talked about into some situation that has to do with their life.

Kind of how we listen to music.

The way I look at it is once I write it on paper and get it out, it's not mine anymore.

Right.

You can have your own interpretation of it.

And my interpretation of it is completely out the window.

Yeah.

So you.

Even though I've written songs about girls that I've loved about, about people I want to murder, you know, I mean, it's all, you know, everything that.

What I'm in is everything from love to murder, that.

That's how I say what I do.

And it's just, you know, however you want to take it, you can listen to an angry track and get your frustrations out on it, you know, and you can listen to a track about somebody that maybe I loved and you just put yourself in that position and you can feel it.

So I, I guess that's what I want to have people get out of what I do.

Nice.

Nice.

That is awesome.

That Ed.

I don't know if you can see it too well.

I've got a vinyl collection back here and just ready.

Right before we were recording, I put on some Bill Evans.

Okay.

Because I'm a huge jazz fan and I get what you're saying about, you know, the whole, you know, putting out there the loves of your life and, you know, girls that you, you've dated and all that.

So that is my top section up here.

My bottom section.

I've got like some amigo the, and some murder folk.

Oh, okay.

As the kids call it these days.

And you know, some ministry, some, some really heavy, hard hitting stuff and.

Okay.

And you know, a little Tom Waits in there as well.

You got to have some time waits every once in a while.

Great.

So, yeah, I, I, I, I'm really similar with you in, you know, whatever emotion I'm going through, I definitely want that to come across to my audience.

And whether that be, yeah, I want to kill this motherfucker, or I'm remembering a old girlfriend of mine that broke my heart, but I'm so glad that she did because that led me to the wife that I have today.

And all that good stuff.

Right.

Something that I know that I've experienced, and this is partially due to the Ms. Because I get the brain fog, the heat sensitivity and all that.

And you know, kind of the general body weakness is, is burnout.

We take care of ourselves last.

But then I've experienced burnout myself and I've got a few tips and tricks on how I overcome burnout.

But I'm wondering, how about you with burnout with doing all the things that you do?

Because, you know, I read through your bio and I'm like, damn, this guy is as busy as I am, if not busier.

Yeah, I'm, I'm always trying to do something because whenever I'm doing something, it kind of keeps my mind off the pain that I'm in all the time.

So I, I think that's kind of what keeps me going.

And I guess I, I try not to get burned out.

And I mean, sometimes there is burnout, obviously, and then you just feel like real tired and you want to go to bed.

But see, I'm stuck in this wheelchair, right.

So I can't necessarily get into bed.

I, I get into bed when I go to sleep and then I get up, get right back in this stupid chair.

So I am.

It's kind of like if I'm like burned out and stuff, I'll lay back in the chair and stuff like that.

But I, I try and push through it and I don't know if I should.

I don't know if it's healthy, but I, I try and go through it.

Not the heat sensitivity, though.

I can't really push through that.

That's not something I can push through.

I hear you on that.

Heat sensitivity is a kill.

I, I have literally passed out multiple times just because I'm trying to push through it.

And.

Yeah.

You know, but I think one, you know, not a blessing, not a silver lining.

Because I hate it when people do that to me.

They're like, well, you know, you gotta find the silver lining.

You know, the good stuff about having Ms. And I'm like, yeah, screw you.

Yeah, there's no good there.

There really is not a silver lining to having ms, I don't think.

No, no.

But something that I've noticed is that I pay a lot more attention to my body than I did before I had the diagnosis.

I guess that is a good thing because I do the same thing.

If I get sick about something, I'll call my doctor.

Yeah.

I don't, I don't mess around anymore with it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So the only good thing we're going to say about ms, this whole conversation is we're going to call the doctor if we're not feeling up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

And look at us, look at us older guys.

We're like, yeah, we're gonna call the doctor now.

Unreal.

Well, I, I can tell you my wife was happy about that because before I never called the doctor.

You know, I could have a. Yeah.

Broken arm, busted head and I'd be like, nah, I'm fine.

And now I'm like, I get a hangnail and I'm like, okay, let me go talk to the doc.

Right.

No, I feel, I feel you exactly on that.

And now I don't know if you notice this too, but when you get sick, like I had like a stomach bug for the past two days.

It like knocked me right on my ass.

Yeah.

I'm like, what in the world is going on here?

Like, I shit myself.

I'm like, I can't.

Cuz I'm in the chair.

So I have to use a sit to stand.

Right.

To get put on the commode.

So I couldn't make it there in time.

It was all.

It was a whole mess.

Just, you know, and.

And it's just some little sickness where if you didn't have ms, you'd be fine.

You'd probably not even feel anything.

You'd probably just have diarrhea or something stupid like that, you know?

Right.

But no, this just gave it to me.

I had the chills, the hot sweats, everything.

I felt weak.

My Ms. Was really acting up more.

It's just really bad.

Yeah, I just.

I don't understand it.

Yeah, it's.

It's above my pay grade, as I like to say, you know.

Right, right.

Like our last great president used to say, it's above my pay grade, so.

Right.

Well, yeah, I know with.

With burnout for me, because I'm more attuned to my body, and I'll.

I will take that rest time a lot more and to recharge.

And a lot of times, even on my profile for pod, I put on there.

And not a lot of people have picked that out yet, but, you know, I put on there, hey, listen, I have ms, and it might come to a time where I need to cancel an interview right away.

And, you know, maybe it's when I try to do it as soon as I can.

As soon as I feel my body is like, nope, I can't even sit here and, you know, do an interview.

Right.

How does that ever do?

You set up things for yourself?

Like, if you're.

If you're gonna be forming or doing.

Doing a show or doing something for somebody else, where you kind of go, hey, I have this condition that I might not be able to perform for you at this point.

Yeah, actually, I don't even perform anymore.

It sucks.

The heat sensitivity to lights.

Yeah, you know, it's.

It's really bad, especially on stage.

It's probably over 100 degrees sometimes.

Oh, yeah.

And.

And it's just.

I. I maybe did a couple here and there, but then I noticed.

I had some options to go on some, like, tours that people wanted me to go on, and I'm like, I just can't do it.

I just got diagnosed with this.

This doctor told me, here, take this shot and you'll be fine.

And I'm like, oh, yeah, that's great.

And then you take the shot.

And it's not working right.

You're like, what, you know, what is this?

And then I end up getting hooked up with, like, some good doctors in Rochester, New York.

They switched my medication up.

Okay.

And, yeah.

And now I'm on it.

No more new lesions, no more new progress.

But, yeah, unfortunately, I'm not performing, so I don't have to, like, put it out there.

I guess that I might have to cancel.

And, like, when I'm working like this, unless I have the doctor appointment, I really just work around stuff like that.

Okay.

So I, I, I have, you know, my whole thing is about that I have Ms.

In my bio on Pod Match.

Yep.

So I actually picked up the thing on your bio about the ms, so.

And I saw you got it tucked away, like, oh, I might have to cancel because I have Ms. And, yeah, you know, so I, I picked that up right away.

I'm like, yeah, I need to talk to this guy.

Yeah.

Well, luckily today I'm feeling fantastic, so I.

That's great.

I've been waiting for this one.

I, I've been looking forward to it all week.

I'm like, oh, that's great.

I'm talking to this guy.

He's, you know, he's obviously going to be a kindred spirit with me.

So.

Yep, we're there.

Feel you on that.

I feel you on that 100%.

I know for me, I had to give myself permission to on occasion, and, you know that, you know, it's okay for me to cancel and reschedule, because before I used to be, you know, if I cancel, you know, I'm letting everybody down.

But then I couldn't give the full me to two interviews that I did in the past.

And I always like to give the full me, whatever.

If I'm hosting a show or if I'm a guest on a show or something like that.

I like to give my all because that's just where my mental state is.

Right.

And, you know, for you, how, how, how is it working for you when you're doing things?

Well, for me, I just.

There.

I never really.

I try not to think about it.

It's.

It's.

It's probably something I should think about because there are days when I don't feel good.

I, I just do it.

Like, the other day, I was on a podcast and I was sick.

I looked happy and everything.

The guy's like, oh, you're so nice.

You know, you're happy.

You're smiling this and that.

And it's like, yeah, I put on a Good front, you know, so even though.

Even though there's some stuff that, you know, might get me, you know, I'm trying to push through some of it, but.

But, yeah, I never really think about putting something in my bio or on my page that says I might have to cancel because of it.

You actually gave me an idea, because you never know how this thing could act.

And for me, I always.

Once I got diagnosed, I was like, okay, well, now I have a name for it, right?

Now I got a name for it.

And initially that was good for me, but then I was like, now I've got this ticking time bomb in my head.

You know, when's it going to go off?

I know, my day job.

Yes.

It's with the federal government, and yay, I still have a job.

And I'm like, yay.

I haven't been cut yet.

But they're always asking me, you know, do you.

You know, when you're having an episode.

Do you want to go out on medical leave?

Exactly.

Do you want to go on a medical leave?

Do you feel it coming on?

And it's like, no.

It can happen at the drop of a hat.

Just like that.

I can be standing here and all my stuff goes numb, and we got to get me to an er, and this is what we got to do.

And having that bomb in my head, it's always at the back of my head, when's it going to happen next?

And for the longest time after I got diagnosed, I'm like, yeah, when's this going to happen next?

It put me kind of in.

I don't want to say a depression, but it was just like, can I do things?

Yeah.

You know, after you got diagnosed, what was that like for you?

You know, knowing that, you know, we're going to have some limitations with the things that we can do?

Yeah.

Well, you know, the doctor that originally diagnosed me really didn't give me any information on it, and that's kind of what sucks.

Yeah.

Where I live, I live in a city of about 60,000 people, and it's.

It's not like New York City, you know, it's like, I live in a little part of New York right in the middle of New York called Utica, and we have horrible doctors.

The medical system's awful.

So this guy's just like, oh, you take this shot and you'll be good.

I'm like, okay.

I'm like, what?

You know, take the shots.

A couple times.

You're seeing it's not doing anything.

And I'm like, well, what the hell's going on with this?

And.

And they deal with military people.

Like, when they go out on assignment or something like that.

They pay their travel.

So that's what I did.

And I unfortunately had to quit that job because of the ms, and I didn't work long enough to get out on medical disability through the government, unfortunately.

So actually, I'm on regular disability, so.

Gotcha.

And.

Yeah, and I'm sorry, what were we talking about?

I got lost.

You know what?

I think we both had that for brain fog.

Hit us both at the same time.

Yeah, no, I was talking about.

You know, how.

What was I talking about?

I'll have to hit the rewind button on that one.

Right.

I think we were talking about.

We were talking about.

See, this is the thing with.

You get two Ms. Guys together.

Yep.

You lose.

We lose some stuff sometimes.

Yeah, yeah.

No, you know what?

That's okay.

It happens.

All right?

We're gonna.

We're gonna go with it, man.

We're gonna go with it.

Sounds good.

Sounds good.

Sweet.

Now I'm stuck on it.

Now I'm like, I gotta figure it out.

I gotta figure it out.

Right, right.

It'll come back.

It'll come back.

And that's the beauty of it, is because when that used to happen to me, I would get flummoxed.

I. I would have been on this for, like, the next 12 hours going, what the hell was I talking about?

Oh, and.

And.

And.

And now I'm like, you know what.

What it is?

And accept it.

Yeah.

Gonna move on.

Gonna move on.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And.

And that's what you got to do, because if we.

If we stick on the stuff that we can't do, then that's what we're gonna focus on.

We're gonna do nothing.

And you have that artistic spirit in you.

Obviously, you do.

And how.

How do you overcome that for yourself?

For me, I kind of take a page out of your book.

I push through.

I'm just like.

And it's taken me a few years to be able to do it, but I just push through.

But how do you do it?

I. Yeah, I. I just kind of push through it.

And to tell you the truth, I've been getting so much work done right now.

Like, I've been using AI as my assistant chat GPT.

So I've been using it like a.

Like a manager, like a Publicist and all kinds of stuff.

I feed it all kinds of information.

Dude.

It actually swears with me.

Nice.

It talks my language.

It talks everything.

And I use it to help me.

I actually had.

I. I had.

It helped me with all kinds of stuff.

I'm not trying to plug my book.

I. I know that you don't want me to plug anything.

I'm.

That's fine.

Go ahead and plug my book.

I am.

All right.

All right.

Well, I worked.

I worked with Chat GPT to help me with this whole book because I had stuff written down, and I just never knew how to put anything together.

Sure.

So I'm like, you know, can you help me write a book?

And it's like, yes, I can.

And I'm like, well, what do I need to do?

And it's like, well, give me chapters.

And I'm like, okay.

So I gave it, like, the first stuff that I wrote, and it turns it into, like, this whole thing where it's actually able to be read.

It's like, if I were to give it to.

To, like, a publisher and they had somebody proof it and look it over and fix things so it read better and things of that nature.

And I'm just like, this thing's crazy.

And I. I worked on it.

Just like, I worked on it for, like, weeks straight, and I'm just, like, working with this thing and working with this thing, and it just keeps my mind.

Kept my mind off the pain.

I'm still working with it while I'm trying to promote this book.

Like, it keeps my mind completely off the pain, and it is absolutely nuts.

Like, I've been using it to help me with advertising, like Facebook advertising, Reddit advertising.

It actually told me about Pod Match, and it's like, you need to get on Pod Match and start connecting with people.

I'm like, oh, okay.

I didn't know that was a thing.

So I would.

I've just been used to going on podcasts for underground rap music.

I don't go on normal podcasts.

You know what I mean?

Like, I. I'm used to people talking about, like, the Insane Clown Posse and things like that, like, Juggalo stuff.

I don't know if you're familiar with that stuff.

Oh, yeah.

But like, that.

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm used to talking about on podcasts.

So this is something totally different to be able to talk with somebody who has Ms. And we're just talking about, you know, what we go through to help cope with it.

So, yeah, I would definitely Say that I just like pushing through it.

And do you know what I named the book?

I named it My Lin.

My Shoes.

Like the Myelin around the nerves.

I see.

I thought you.

I thought you might like that because it's a cool play on words, you know, you're an artist, so.

Absolutely.

The minute I saw that, I'm like, oh, that's brilliant, dude.

That is brilliant.

I know of another podcast gal runs it.

I can't remember her name off the top of my head and that.

And that's okay.

But she's got a podcast called F U M S. Okay.

And Great.

And that's.

Her attitude towards Ms. Is just great.

You know, she's going to fight it tooth and nail and not let it impact her.

Let's talk about the book, though, because.

Okay, I'm gonna be honest with you.

I have not purchased it yet.

I wanted to sit and chat with you here, and I'm.

I'm already.

The.

The book is in the show notes.

The.

The links and all that is in the show notes.

So thank you.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Well, I've got four books of poetry out there, so I know what.

I know what it takes to.

To.

To write a book and all that.

Yeah.

With using the tool of chat GPT, which I'm a huge fan of, that actually is one of the tools that I have used for my new series, which you're the first one of.

So welcome my guinea pig here.

Sweet.

Sweet.

Hey, that's all right.

But, yeah, I used it to give me ideas for, you know, things that new artists are struggling.

You know, mental health is definitely one that.

That we all struggle with.

But tell me about this book.

How does it make you feel to have it out there in the world and for people to.

To hear about your story and read about your story?

It is kind of strange, actually.

Even though I've made music for so long, like, I feel like it's a different kind of story.

It's really, like, personal.

Like, I really, like, kind of go into some details about certain things, and I. I guess the way I position.

The way I made it is I made it about, like, life without Ms. And life with Ms.

So it was kind of like the duality of the two things, like when I started losing it and, like, my diagnosis and all that stuff.

So, you know, it's kind of strange to have the whole big story out there and it.

It's not like a song, but actually.

And I'm not trying to sound pompous, but it was easy to write because I'M used to writing music, so this didn't have to rhyme.

So I was just writing stuff out and I'm just like, this is crazy.

I'm like, I don't have to rhyme any of this stuff.

I can just tell stories.

So, you know, I was doing that and it was coming out good.

And chat GPT's like, this book is really good.

It's like you have something on your hands.

You need to do something with it.

I'm like, oh, well, that's.

That's something.

All right.

So I actually came out with a soundtrack to it, too.

I put together songs that I talk about specifically in this book.

I put them on a soundtrack.

I put that out on Spotify and Apple Music, all the streaming platforms.

And then I'm actually coming out with a vinyl record on National Vinyl Record Store Day.

On.

Not Record Store Day, sorry.

On national vinyl day.

It's August 12th, so I have a pre order right now up and it's.

I only press 25 copies of it, so it's gonna be like a little limited run.

Okay.

And I don't.

I don't think any author has ever put a soundtrack on vinyl for a book before, so.

Well, I tell you what, you see all the books behind me here?

Yeah.

The only one that I would say is Saul Williams, because he puts out.

He puts out records, but he's also an author, but he hasn't put out a soundtrack to his books.

So definitely, you gotta shoot me the link because you.

You made one sale already because.

All right, I, I will.

I'll be playing it right here on this turntable.

That.

That's awesome.

That's awesome.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

That is awesome.

That you.

That you.

That.

See, I knew this is going to be a great conversation because I'm actually starting up another podcast and it's going to be called My Solo Mississippi Journey.

Oh.

Now, that's not to mean that, you know, my wife and my kids and my friends and my family isn't going through it with me.

Right.

However, they don't have Ms.

I'm the guy that's got Ms. Yep.

And that's one of the things that, you know, I'm very grateful for.

My wife, she, you know, she's like, you know, tell me what you need.

What can I do?

And.

And, you know, I'm going through this with you.

And I.

And I told her, I said, I don't mean to sound like a.

Like an.

Right.

But you ain't.

Yeah, you don't have it.

You're not really Going through it.

But you can kind of understand my pain.

You.

You understand maybe what I'm going through, but you're not living it, so you don't really understand it.

I. I get exactly where you're coming from.

Yeah, that, that I get mad with that sometimes.

Like, I'm like, you don't know what I'm talking about.

You don't know.

I'm like, you've never felt this.

You have no idea what I'm talking about.

Yeah, you.

You would know what I'm talking about.

Right.

And even rmss.

Nope, they're different.

You're going to be completely different.

Even though we've got the same type and I'm using big quotes on this.

Yep, yep.

You know, relapsing, remitting.

But I mean, there's so many different types that are out there.

Primary progressive, secondary primary progressive, you know, and when I was.

Now something that I did is I joined a couple of online support groups.

Okay, there's one, and I will send this to you as well.

There's one strictly for men, and then there's one for veterans.

I'll send you both.

I. I know you work for the federal government and thank you people at dfas, because I'm prior military and I needed my paychecks when I was in Somalia.

Let me tell you got paid, so that's good.

Yeah.

Love my dfast people.

But, you know, that's something that, that I've used and you know, as a guy, a lot of times we're told, hey, you know, just rub some dirt on it, move on and.

And all that kind of stuff.

What's kind of some of the stuff that you've used?

Has it been your art that has brought you some solace and some, you know, some ways to, you know, get through this?

Or is it other things?

What.

What are you using?

It's definitely the art and everything that I do.

I think if I just had to rely on like the mental health medication that they prescribed me, literally, they prescribed it to me for no reason in the first place.

The guys like, here, take this.

And now I've been on it for over 10 years and I'm never gonna get off this shit.

It's horrible.

That I hate, I hate that medication.

It's the worst crap ever.

And I felt like at first it stifled my creativity, but now I've learned how to deal with it and it doesn't stifle my creativity in the least bit, and I'm able to actually get things out and work on them.

And when I'm working on them, like I said, I don't feel pain.

I don't feel any kind of anything.

I kind of feel like I'm like, normal.

So when I'm creating something, it makes me feel normal.

And I'm not.

I'm not like this.

Like, I actually talk about it in.

In the book, like, the duality between me and B side, about how it's like, well, you know, B side doesn't have Ms. B side can go jump over cars and walls and whatever he wants to do.

But me, I'm.

I'm nobody.

I can't do.

I got Ms.

I'm stuck in a wheelchair.

I got 24 hour care, you know, and, you know, unfortunately, my girlfriend went.

Left me.

We were supposed to be married.

We.

We were engaged.

She didn't leave me right after the diagnosis, but yeah, like, years after that.

Somewhere around there.

Sure.

And she's like, oh, I just can't deal with you anymore.

This and that.

And it's like, well, that's too bad.

And she's like, well, you can.

You can stay here tonight if you want.

I'm like, absolutely not.

So I called my mom and I'm like, get me out of here.

You know, so.

And that was living with her and her parents was absolutely hell, to tell you the truth.

Like, her mother was this negative Nancy, and it was just horrible.

Her father was the greatest guy, ex Marine, real great guy.

Right.

He actually got cancer in Camp Lejeune.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

He's actually dead now, unfortunately.

Yeah.

Yep.

Gotta love.

Gotta love our government for stuff like.

That, you know, they take such good care of us.

They do.

They really do.

Yeah.

Now people are gonna go, well, what's that gotta do with creativity and mental health?

But I know it's got everything to do with it because these are things that we deal with, you know?

Right.

These are things that we talk about.

These are things that we put out there for our audience, for our listeners, for people that are interested in our stuff.

And, you know, it's good to get it out there.

And, you know, going back to the very beginning where I'm like, you know, I hate seeing therapy on stage.

It's good that we can take those bad things that happen to us, repackage it, put a good spin on it and go, here you go, you know, who was it?

I think it was Eminem.

I'm not my nephew that lives with me.

He's the Hip hop guy.

My stepson doesn't live with us.

He's.

They're the hip hop kids, so I like to call them, but, you know, I am aware of a lot of this stuff.

But I think it was Eminem that did a whole thing on his girlfriends or.

Yeah.

And his mom.

And to be able to take that pain, to take that, that.

That horrible situation and flip it and go.

And then, you know, have millions of people go ahead and buy our music buyer, buy our books, which I'm going to tell everybody right now, they need to go get your book.

My land in my shoes.

I'll promote it for you.

Not a problem.

Thank you.

Thank you.

But, and, and again, today, I am buying it.

That is my promise to you.

Absolutely.

But I think it's kind of our goal is to, you know, unfortunately live through the shitty times and then do something positive with it.

And I think that's what you're doing.

And thank you.

Awesome, awesome.

Let me see here.

I did have a couple of notes on.

That was my.

That was my big thing right there.

It's talking about artist therapy and burnout.

There it is.

Okay, cool.

I've got too many windows open.

I got too many windows open, kid.

Yep, I feel that.

I feel that sometimes.

I got way too many tabs sometimes.

Man, you know, they.

They give me all these tabs, limitless tabs, and I'm like, I'm going to use them all.

I'm going to use them all.

Y. Y.

You deal with the stigma of, you know, with.

With.

With Ms. Out in the, you know, out in the artistic community, people not understanding kind of what Ms. Is.

And again, the, the shitty thing about Ms. Is that it's different things for different people.

But people, you know, kind of going, well, you know, I see you in a chair, so obviously you can't do this, that.

And the other thing.

How do you deal with, you know, how that affects you mentally and basically give those people the middle finger and go, well, I can do this and that, the other thing, way better than you, so.

Right, right.

Well, unfortunately, like, I don't get out much, so I don't really have much contact with people other than, like, my family and friends.

So I haven't really, like, been out in the world having a deal with people like one and then me wondering what people think or whatever.

So, you know, I haven't really thought about that.

But I. I do think about being in the chair.

I. I just think about sometimes how.

How up that it is.

Like, these chairs are not good.

In the least bit.

And I would say the people that make them, the manufacturers and the people that sell them, they look at us a certain way, and they think that we are like, all paraplegics.

We can't feel our asses.

We can't feel our legs.

Can't feel my arms.

This idiot that.

That I got my wheelchair, this electric wheelchair from, I said to him, it's making my Ms. Act up.

No, it's not.

That's your.

You.

You got to talk to your doctor.

I'm like, I know my ms, you idiot.

Don't try and tell me that my Ms. Is the reason why I'm feeling like this.

You have me in a torture chamber, and I'm in it for, like, 12 hours a day, and this guy just keeps.

Just keeps gaslighting me on all these problems.

Oh, well, we can do this.

We could do that.

No, it's not gonna help anything.

This guy actually jacked up the.

The feet plates too high.

So my knee on my left side, it's like.

You know how, like, when you, like, tweak your knee a little bit and you just have to walk on it a couple days and it'll be fine?

Well, that's what I did, except I can't walk on it, right?

And it's like I have to have therapy every day on my leg.

When I wake up from my aid every day, they have to push my leg in and out five times.

And I curse that wheelchair guy every single morning.

I hope he gets a.

Into some kind of something where he has to experience this chair for himself for 12 hours a day and has no relief from it whatsoever.

Sorry, I got off on a tangent.

It just pisses me off to no end.

I think we have your next song right there, dude.

I think we have your next hit.

Dude, I'm not even gonna take my usual 10%.

You just go with that, man.

Throw a beat behind that and go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, actually, I'm coming out with an album about Ms. For National Ms. Month.

Oh, nice.

March.

Yeah, I'm gonna do a whole album, a whole rap album about ms, and I've never done a song about it or anything, and so this will be the first time I do it, and I'm working with my buddy Ken, who makes my beats for me, and we're probably gonna work on, like, a little ep, and I've already got, like, three beats for it.

I already have ideas kicking around and stuff like that, so, man, I got.

Yeah, I got.

I got a whole Ms. Song called the Monster, like capital M O, N, capital S T E R. Like, so the Ms. Is shown, like, stylized, you know.

Yeah.

But then, like, the hook, it says, I woke up one day trying to see my life a new way.

The monsters in my head and the lesions, fast, they spread.

Would you like a hug, Ms. Will give you one.

Let me know how you feel after it's said and done.

So that's gonna.

That's the hook for it.

Nice.

And yeah, so I got.

I got some beats for it and stuff, and it's kind of gonna be like.

Like underground, mainstream ish, kind of rap for people with the disability.

I guess that's how I'm gonna put it is.

It's made for people with a disability.

That's right.

That's.

That's kind of how I'm making it.

That's what I'm doing.

So.

Yeah.

Nice.

Yep.

Dude, that is that.

As soon as.

Again, this is not the end of our conversation.

This conversation is going to keep on going.

I'm just going to let you know right now, I'm like a bad rash.

I'm not going to go away.

So.

That's all right.

Keep hitting me up, man.

That's all right.

I'm having a good time, man.

I am having a great time with you.

I am having a great time with you.

That is awesome to hear.

So when you're doing this stuff is because of limitations you have.

I know it's not gonna completely replace the stuff that you had before, but is it enough to keep you going?

I think now that I've gotten more involved because of the book and getting on podcasts and things like that, this right here is what the stage used to be for me.

Although what I tell people is like, being on stage is better than sex.

It's.

It's a.

It's a feeling that you can't describe unless you've been there.

And if you've ever been to a show with a hundred to a thousand people, even 50 people, you know, I don't care.

I actually performed for two people one time on the road in Indiana, and it was a great show.

It was a great show.

And.

And it's just if.

If you can make them feel it or whatever, then.

Then.

Then it just gives you this feeling, but you just can't, you know, you can't replicate that feeling.

But this is kind of replicating that feeling to me.

Being able to talk to people, being able to go out and try and promote the book and things like that.

Like, I'm doing all Kinds of promotional tactics.

I'm kind of promoting it.

Like an album.

Yeah.

So that's why I'm doing, like, a media thing, like trying to get on podcasts and what have you.

So, yeah, that.

That's kind of what I'm trying to do to keep my mind off not being able to perform.

And then maybe one day I'll come on camera and have a show and just try it out and see what's up, you know, like, I got.

I got a little podcast mic that I bought specifically for this.

Then I have my recording microphone and stuff.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah, let me tell you, podcasting it, it can be worse than crack because I've got about eight microphones.

And, you know, this is my baby.

This is.

Yeah, she's been with me for a nice long time.

And, yeah, she.

She's lover to death, but I've got, you know, all my microphones way back over here and.

And all my.

All the stuff that you can get with podcasting and you can just throw yourself into that.

Yeah.

And.

And it is great.

So it's.

It's a bad habit to get into, much like vinyl is a bad habit to get into because you can spend way too much and spend too much time on it.

But it, for me, it keeps me out of the bars and keeps me out of the jails.

So that's good.

Yeah, it's good.

That's good.

That's all that matters.

All right, man.

Part of the bars and the jails.

Unless they give me some good material to write about that.

No, no, not even then, you know.

Right.

My wife would never forgive me.

She would not for me on that.

All right, so what's some healthy habits that you get into to keep yourself motivated, to keep yourself going?

What's.

What's the sunny, sunny spot that you're looking towards that, you know, is.

Is going to keep you motivated and good things that you're doing for you?

Well, my mom always tells me to keep positive about everything, so I have been looking at things more positively than I have before, and especially now while I'm in this book and promotional mode.

Like, that's kind of helped me keep my mind off everything, and it's really kept me focused to what I'm trying to do.

So actually, every day I'm opening up the computer and just going on it and sitting on it all day and dealing with all the stuff that I have to deal with for the book, and it's been a great way to, you know, kill my time and make me feel Normal again.

Nice.

Nice.

Yeah.

And you know, like you were saying earlier, you know, you barrel through and you just keep on working and, and that's.

I, I love that idea.

And I always have to put the caveat in my back.

But when your body tells you to take a rest, take a rest.

Yes, take a rest.

Very true.

Being 52 with Ms. Take a rest.

Yep.

Yeah, well, I'm, I'm 42, so we're 10 years apart and I, I can feel that too.

Yeah.

So I, I can feel you when you say your body tells you to take a rest.

Take a rest.

You know, I'm not, I'm not 19.

Anymore, so I'm, I'm not sure I was 19 when I was 19.

I felt like 70 at 19 also.

And you're at that perfect age too.

42.

Ultimate answer, the universe.

I'm a huge sci fi fan.

Okay.

Comes from a guy named Douglas Adams.

He's got this book out called the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Oh, okay.

And if you hate sci fi, but you like comedy, that's the way to go.

It is.

Okay.

It is.

Because a lot of times when people think sci fi, they're like, you know, it's all Star Trek and Star wars and all that kind of stuff.

But this guy, yeah, he's passed away a long time ago, but funny, funny ass sci fi dude.

It's just really, really outrageous stuff.

If you're having a bad day, I pick up his book.

Well, it's, it's a five part trilogy.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Just think about that for a second.

A five part trilogy.

It's that ridiculous.

It's that ridiculous.

Okay.

And it just makes me smile.

So I, you know, I always try to find something that, that'll make me smile each and every day.

You know, with the, with the wife and the kids.

That works.

Unless they're screaming and hollering and, you know, that happens on occasion.

But I always try to find something positive to look at and.

Sounds like you're finding some positivity in your life, so.

That is awesome, dude.

Yes, absolutely awesome, dude.

Thanks.

All right, well, hey, Robert, I gotta.

Speaking about those screaming kids, I gotta get running upstairs.

But again, like I said, this is not the last time we're gonna yap together.

Yeah.

And the soundtrack for, for your Book.

As soon as you get me that code for the 25 limited series, I'm going to.

Okay, I'll send it to you right after.

Right after we're done.

Okay.

Cool beans.

Yeah.

You all heard it first.

And if he doesn't, I'll come back on the air and go, he didn't send me the fucking thing.

I know you will, man.

I know you.

Yep, I will.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Robert, dude, I've found a kindred spirit in you, and thank you so much for, A, being my guinea pig for my reformatting of the show.

I don't know how it's all going to turn out, but I feel it's going to turn out fantastic.

And B, thank you for, you know, sharing with me what you're doing.

It helps me.

I do the show not just for the listeners, but I do it for me too, because it helps me keep on going because I'm an artist at heart.

Right?

You're an artist at heart.

And I hope this keeps you going, you know, and puts.

Puts a nice feather in your cap and.

And.

And keeps you going doing what you're doing, man.

Absolutely it does.

Thanks for having me on so much, man.

And I'm.

I'm happy to be your guinea pig.

All right, awesome.

Oh, you guys heard it first.

He's happy to be my guinea pig.

So the next crazy idea I have, I'm calling up Robert.

Yep.

Hit me up.

Hit me up.

All right.

Means man.

Yeah.

All right, folks, that was my new friend and fellow relapsing, remitting Ms.

Guy, Robert B side Curdillo Jr.

I hope you got a lot out of that conversation because that really was a conversation that he and I had talking about mental health and creativity and how we're overcoming a lot of the things that we're struggling with and how we put it out there.

Not just.

Don't get me wrong, art therapy is good stuff, but I think for both of us, we're not there.

We're not in it to do art therapy.

We're in it because we are artists first.

Yes, we have a disability, but we're artists first.

And.

And I think you got that from.

From this conversation.

Again, I'm trying something new here.

Not necessarily doing this straight up interview, just doing more of a conversation style.

So if you liked it, great, let me know.

Email me timothyreateartpodcast.com Love to hear your take on this.

If it touched you, if it encouraged you, then go ahead and share it with a friend.

I don't think bside is going to be offended if you do that.

Now, I want to thank you for listening all the way here because we're about, you know, a little over an hour into this.

So I'm just going to remind you that I have another podcast called Find a Podcast About.

You can find it at findapodcast about xyz.

And that's where I help you find your next binge worthy podcast and outsmart the algorithm.

You can find out more about it@tkbpodcaststudio.com and that's where I help my clients lead through all the noise that's out there with quiet professionalism.

I'm helping folks start up their podcast, helping them, you know, talk about their dreams, talk about what really interests them, them, and getting their message out to you.

So if you're thinking about doing that yourself, reach out to me.

Timothykbpodcaststudio.com and let's see what we can do together.

All right, folks, this has been a really fun ride.

I want to thank B side for being so open, being my guinea pig in this episode.

And I want to thank you for listening to what we had to say and for, you know, sharing the time that we have here together.

So now go out there, tame that inner critic.

Create more than you consume.

Go out there and make some art for somebody you love.

Yourself.

I'll talk to you next time.