Organizational expert Amanda Jefferson returns to the podcast to reveal her ultimate decluttering secrets.

Show Notes Info:

Amanda Jefferson is the owner of Indigo Organizing, the creator of the Done-With-You Digital Organizing coaching program and the Get It Done Club, and one of the world's first KonMari consultants. A TEDx speaker and co-host of the Good Enough-Ish podcast, Amanda has been featured in Real Simple, Harpers Bazaar, the Wall Street Journal, and Better Homes & Garden, among others. She was recently named a Top 50 Women Speaker of 2024 by renowned speaker and author Jess Ekstrom. Known affectionately as the Tech Whisperer, Amanda helps busy people declutter their digital lives and talks to audiences about how to quiet the noisy shoulds of society.

John, How often do we feel in our life that there are things that we should do or should participate in just because it’s expected of us? And maybe it’s not what we have time for or it’s not really the most important priority in our heart and soul. But again, it’s what we feel that it’s expected of us. I don’t know if that’s something that you’ve experienced at any point in your life. I know it certainly is in mine.

Well, and I think what happens truly is we begin to accumulate things. Right. So we know anyone who’s lived in a home for a long time knows how we begin to accumulate things in our closets, our attics, our basements, our sheds. And, you know, before you turn around, there’s so much clutter. You can’t even move around until you finally can’t take it anymore. You like? That’s it. I’ve got to do something about it. Well, the same thing happens with our commitments and our tasks. And you know what we picked up at one point? Because it was really important to us. Not going to say they’re still not important to us some of these things. But oftentimes, you know, the what are they say the the enemy of the best is the good. Right. Because we we make decisions about what we think would would be good at a certain time. But over time, things change, priorities change. And so I thought it was really important for our audience to hear what Amanda Jefferson had to say today about the process we might employ to begin sorting out the clutter, whether it’s whether it’s physical, whether it’s digital, whether it’s personal, whether it’s business. I think we’re all people and we all are exposed to the dangers of over cluttering our lives.

Absolutely. And she has a great method, which she calls the focus method, but again, I think takes this process from a very high level 30,000 foot process to a tactical process that we can all go through to really start sorting through any of these commitments, physical or items that we’re thinking about in our life. And I think it’s what was so powerful for me to really think about. And I’m confident that our listeners will be inspired to do so in their own lives, whether personally or professionally.

You know. Julie And sometimes I just love podcasts sometimes where we talk to folks outside of our industry, yet everything that they do is so applicable to what we do. So given the fact that Amanda is outside of our industry, why don’t you share with our listeners a little bit about who Amanda is and why? She’s joining us on the podcast today.

Amanda Jefferson is the owner of Indigo organizing, the creator of the Done With You digital organizing coaching program and the Get It Done Club one of the world’s first Con Mari consultants, a TEDx speaker and co-host of the Good Enough ish podcast. Amanda has been featured in Real Simple, Harper’s Bazaar, The Wall Street Journal and Better Homes and Garden, among others. She was recently named a top 50 woman speaker of 2024 by renowned speaker and author Jess Ekstrom, known affectionately as The Tech Whisperer. Amanda helps busy people declutter their digital lives and talks to audiences about how to quiet the noisy shoulds of society.

So please join us for a few minutes and listening to our conversation that we have with Amanda Jefferson about how to quiet those shoulds and how to use the focused method to add order to our lives. Hi, I’m Jack.

And I’m Julie.

We’re the hosts of the Heart of Funds Human Centric Investing podcast.

Every other week, we’re talking with inspiring thought leaders to hear their best ideas for how you can transform your relationships with your clients.

Let’s go.

Amanda, welcome to the Human Centric Investing Podcast. We’re so happy to be here with you today.

I am excited to be here.

Amanda I always enjoy talking to you and I’m really looking forward to this podcast because you talk about one of the keys to enjoying life and finding joy in life is to quiet the shoulds. I think I’ve got a lot of shoulds, but I want to understand them better, to understand that I’m actually thinking about them right way. So when you talk about quieting the shoulds in our life, what are you talking about there?

So, you know, my career, I left a big career behind. I you know, I had an MBA. I worked at one of the world’s, you know, premier business schools. I worked at Wharton. I was the head of a nonprofit. And I was sort of like shutting my way to the top, right? Like I was doing all of the things that you’re supposed to do and climbing the ladder. And at the same time that I was the executive director of a nonprofit. You know, I was, you know, supposed to be doing all these this big fundraising and running a team and had this big board. I also had a newborn baby at home and I was exhausted. And I had a two hour commute and a totally messy house and I was exhausted and something had to give. But all the messages that I was getting was just like, keep going. Just keep kind of white knuckling your way through this life because this is what it is. And I knew that I was probably on the verge of a nervous breakdown. So I decided to leave that career behind and get trained by Marie Kondo to help people de-clutter their homes. And most of the people that I gave you know what, I had to call my board members one by one to explain to them that I was leaving my job as an executive director of a nonprofit to essentially what they were hearing were clean closets. They all thought that I was crazy. But I’ve learned that when people think you’re crazy, you might be on to something. So that was kind of my first endeavor in really kind of leaving the shoulds behind. And then over the past couple, eight years or so, as I’ve worked with people decluttering their lives, what I’m really realizing is that I’m giving that helped, helping to give them permission to let go of their own shoulds and let go of what’s not serving them and really kind of strip their own lives down to, you know, as Marie Kondo would say, like what brings them joy? So that’s kind of just a real quick and dirty explanation about why I feel kind of passionate about the shoulds and how that got me to where I am today.

So when you say that shoulds or oftentimes the expectations that others put on us versus our priorities, is that the key to what they are?

Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, in the old days they used to talk about keeping up with the Joneses, and the Joneses were just the two people that lived next to you that had, you know, the green grass and the white picket fence. But now the Joneses are everywhere. They are on our phones and they are in our faces. And, you know, there’s just this expectation of what size we should be and how we should dress and what our homes should look like, and that our pantries should be color coordinated and, you know, all of this kind of stuff. And, you know, the number of kids you should have or should you have because all this kind of stuff. And it’s it’s very overwhelming. And so I think that this keeping up with the Joneses has been multiplied by a million and people are just kind of exhausted by it all.

It’s interesting. Have you found that when you let go of the shoulds, does it make you more productive and organized, or is there a link between the two? I’m I’m curious, what is your exploration over the last eight years shown you?

Yeah, for sure. You know, I worked with a couple, a husband and wife a few years ago and they’re, you know, their house was very cluttered. They had three kids, one of whom was special needs. He was the head of the Boy Scout troop and the head of this and the head of that and the soccer coach and this and that. And he had so many shoulds going on in his mind. But it was they weren’t shoulds to him. It was just like, well, they need a Boy Scout leader and they couldn’t find another soccer coach. And they did. So it was like, I have to do all of these things. And I think when I would start to have conversations with him about like, you actually don’t like, you could actually say, I’ve been reevaluating my priorities and I’m no longer able to lead the Boy Scouts right now. And will that disappoint someone? Yes. Well, it create a little bit of a problem, you know, for a couple of months. Yes. Is that okay? Yes. Because you’re kind of driving yourself into a hole, you know, mentally, physically, just because you don’t want to disappoint other people, because you’re kind of holding on to these shoulds. And yeah, so I think letting go of the shoulds can have an enormous impact on people.

You know, it’s interesting I think about it, Amanda, even professionally with the financial professionals that we deal with oftentimes, I think as financial professionals, there’s a lot of shoulds in our life like what our office should like look like, what our conversations with our clients should comprise, like how I should separate my personal life and interests from my business. But actually, I and I think Julie will agree, some of the top teams in the industry and we work with some of the top teams in our industry. They allow their personality to flow through their business. It’s almost like it’s one in the same and there’s a different atmosphere when that happens. And to your point, will it mean that you may not get certain clients that have a given expectation? I think that’s probably true. But in another way, you may attract and find more joy in the clients that you’re working with because they’re more closely aligned to kind of the person that you are and the person that you best serve. And so I think what you said about the shoulds, it’s applicable both personally as well as professionally.

Right. I gave a talk at the American Staffing Association a couple last year, and there was one woman there who had really brightly covered colored hair, and she was on a team of maybe about 5 or 6, you know, people that worked in this particular staffing company. And she was so thrilled that this company just let her be who she was, because in the staffing industry, it’s a little bit more buttoned up. It’s a little bit like in the financial advising and a little bit more buttoned up. But people loved her and people would say, Could I work with the one with the orange hair? And they celebrated that. And that made her different and it really helped her stick out. And so I think embracing that, I mean, people can be like life can be really boring sometimes. Like when I was in the corporate world, I used to joke about like, you know, we would say like death by PowerPoint. People are sometimes really bored and they’re looking for something a little bit unconventional, a little bit exciting, a little bit fun. And so I think breaking out of those shoulds can just bring a lot more fun to things all of a sudden.

I love that. And I think it’s so interesting when when we can kind of honor our authentic selves and and, you know, really let that shine through. You know, it’s interesting, Amanda, I know that you’ve put a lot of work into a method that you call the focus method and and really helping people prioritize their time and attention. Because let’s face it, that’s our most valuable asset is our time. Will you tell us a little bit about the focus method and maybe we can dig into that and help our listeners maybe apply that framework. And you know, for those that are thinking, you know what, you caught my attention. I’m interested, but how do I how do I go about this? What would I do to change my process? I think the focus method is just so great when you really want to think about taking this to the next step.

Absolutely. One of the phrases that we talk about a lot in this kind of Mario world, just sort of like, let us help you weed the garden and then you can plant the flowers. So the focus method is really about weeding that garden. So, you know, you know, I can say to somebody, okay, let go of the shoulds or you have way too much on their plate. And they’re like, okay, great. But like, how do I start, right? So the focus method is sort of that way of calling it out. So F is kind of two different things. F is fill your cup kind of what are the things that you really, truly love to do that spark joy for you? So hang on to those things. But it’s also F is also finish it. It’s like hashtag adulting. Like you need to take the cats to the vet. Stop procrastinating, take the cats to the vet. You need to schedule your mammogram. Stop procrastinating. Schedule your mammogram. Right. Is outsource. So outsource it. So what app program partner teenager with a car could do this for you. Grocery delivery. You know, people with chronic illness. I’m always encouraging them to do like there’s these people will do your laundry. They will come pick it up. They will fold it. They will bring it back. Right? So outsource it. How can you outsource it than C is cut it? So that is like what I was talking about with the Boy Scouts before. You know what? This doesn’t fit with my priorities. I’m sorry. I’m just going to have to let it go. You is uncomplicated. Which means how can we find the minimum effective dose of this? So say, for example, you don’t want to decorate your entire house for the holidays. Could you put a wreath on the front door and call it a day? And then the se is scootch it. So that’s like scooch down. Like push it out, you know, should I do this kitchen renovation when I’m also getting my hip replaced, You know, that sort of thing. How can I move these things out? And because my love language is spreadsheets, I actually have a whole brain dump template where they can list out all the things that they have on their brain and then kind of choose on the dropdown menu. Okay, this I’m going to finish this, I’m going to outsource this, I’m going to cut, etc. they can sort it and all of that. So it’s a really great sort of get everything out and then really sort of systematically process, okay, what am I going to do with all these ins? How am I going to weed my garden?

And I think even professional human kind of focusing that on our business. I know one of the things that really saddles down financial professionals as their practice is growing is there’s usually something that they do really, really well because they love to do it. It’s whether it’s rainmaking, whether it’s planning, whether it’s investing, whatever. And they’ll ask Julie and I kind of if you were going to add someone to your team, you know, who would that your next hire me? Well, I think if they went through the focus method, they might be able to identify. Here are the things that I really get energized by doing. I almost need to find someone who’s energized by the things that I don’t get energized about, right? They can compliment me and compliment my staff. So I, I really love that. So you’re saying that when we’re first trying to quiet these shoulds and we’re trying to get our arms around everything, maybe just to start listing things out that are occupying our time, that are hanging over us, that are commitments that we’ve made, whether we like them or not. Just get them in one place to get an overall view of what we’re dealing with. Is that maybe a good place to get started?

Yeah, absolutely. And I really actually love what you were saying about, you know, you could even apply the job, the focus method to a job description. Like let me look at all of the things that I do and actually figure out what can I outsource, what can I cut, What can I uncomplicated? What can I scooch? What can I move down? I teach this method to business owners and executives because you can even use it as a whole tool to think about strategies and projects that the company is taking on. So yeah, that’s often just the right first step is just to get it all out and really just it’s kind of like in Connemara when we’re, when we’re doing it, your closet, we pile everything onto the bed. And so it’s kind of the same way, like, let’s get everything all in one place so that we can see what we’re working with.

Once you have everything out and into maybe the spreadsheet and now I know what we get along so well because I’ve never met a spreadsheet I didn’t love. So this makes a lot of sense. It’s coming from very clear. So I love that when you said my love language is spreadsheets, I’m going to use that. But once you have that all out and you start to compartmentalize and sort, how do you prioritize writing? So this is a lot, right? And it can become overwhelming. What would you like to say? A financial professional is going through this. What’s what’s kind of step one or, you know, how how does somebody start or keep going maybe rather than getting overwhelmed? Because I could see someone, you know, getting all these things out and then saying, that’s a really big hairy list. I don’t know. I’ve got a lot on my plate. I don’t know where to go from here or I’m just going to set this aside and not move forward. How do you help people sort of move through that initial maybe state of overwhelmed this? I know that’s not a word, but yeah. What’s the inspiration?

Yeah. So I had a client who filled it all out and, you know, she got 120 things on the list or something and she was like, okay, great. So 75 of them are finishing priority one, you know, like, okay, well, that’s not going to work.

The next.

Thing. Yeah, right. So we’re done. And right then it’s like, and then she’s like, I think I’m kind of understanding the point of this exercise because in her brain she’s been she’s had these 75 things circling around. I need to get that done. I need to get this done. I need to get this done. And so none of it gets done right. So the spreadsheet also has these columns where you can identify priority. So what I love about spreadsheets is that you can so easily sort. So once you get through and you decide, okay, this is finished outsource biloba, you can also identify a priority. So one, two, three, four. So you can identify those priority ones. You can also identify the exact date spreadsheet has like a little click thing on it where you can choose, you know, actually choose from the calendar, what date you’re going to work on. And then it also has an area where you can identify the exact next step because you might have written down one of your, your tasks is organize my garage. But that’s not a task. That’s a project. So what is the first step? It might be find a professional organizer, it might be order some shelves online, whatever it is. So then you can sort and I would say choose like ten that are priority one. Identify that exact next step. Identify the date. You’re going to take that next step and then you can say, okay, now I can do ten more that are priority one and just kind of chip away at it. And then I think if you see that you’ve got a lot that you keep sketching, why do I keep sketching that? Is that because there’s some friction there that I need to resolve? Do I even need to do that as it maybe not a scooch? Is that a cut? Is it an outsource? You know, that sort of thing. So it kind of forces you to ask a lot of questions about, am I applying the right one here?

You know, and it strikes me, Julian, I often talk to financial professionals about building a longevity network. And it just crossed my mind that, you know, somebody that you just mentioned, somebody to help you physically organize things. And we hear this a lot when people are thinking about downsizing or moving or whatever. But I’m thinking somebody that does what you do in terms of helping me think about my time and my priorities may be a really interesting addition to that longevity network because as life changes, priorities change, focus changes, and it kind of switches up the things that I think we would prioritize. So yeah, just hearing you talk through those things kind of makes me think about how would I use this to benefit my clients. And then my question back to you is, as I hear you talk, it would seem very difficult for me to say, you know what, I’m going to hire a man that to work in my professional life without having it kind of encompass my personal life, too, because for many of us, right, our work is just another expression of who we are. So I would think that if we were engaged in something like this, we should probably open ourselves up to the possibilities of what it could do for us personally, as well as professionally. Would you? Is that where most clients come to you from that direction, or do they isolate it and say, no, just personally, or can you help me with my business? Or how does that usually work?

It’s so blended, and I think in some ways that was a beauty of Covid in the sense that it recognized the fact that we’re not one person from 9 to 5 and then a totally different person. You know, weekends and evenings. Right. And that we are just this combination of those two things. And I think there’s a much better appreciation for those things. So it’s very rare that I’m working with someone and wherever doing just personal or just professional for a lot of people is really helping them even just figure out a little bit how to untangle the two or how to. So, for example, a lot of people don’t even understand on their computers, like how their filing system works, you know, the filing cabinet of their computer. And so all of their work and personal stuff is all mixed together. And so even just being able to teach them, let’s have a work folder and put everything in there and have a personal folder and put everything in there and it’s like, you know, just like kind of this like, moment. So, you know, when we are making that focus list for people, it always, you know, it could be like, I need to make an appointment to cover my grays and I need to submit a $3 million proposal to this, you know, client. It’s it’s such a mix, but we have it all tangled up in our head. And so that’s where I can just kind of help people untangle that mess.

Well, I think it’s interesting. I always joke that at any given time I have multiple to do list going and I have a paper copy floating around somewhere. I have a notes list on my iPhone, I have a spreadsheet somewhere, you know, and they’re all at different stages and they’re a mix of work, personal. And the most important thing is to be able to cross things off of them because it feels so good. But it does seem like to be able to overlay all of those in one central repository and just have that focus list and make sure that everything is in one Prioritization would be a much more efficient way to go. So now you’ve inspired me once again to take another look at all of those lists that are running and, you know, make sure that it’s as efficient as possible. Right.

I think, you know. Sorry.

No, go ahead.

And I think, you know, the focus that spreadsheet doesn’t have to be your everyday, you know, to do list. I think it’s such a great tool when you’re just having a moment of total overwhelm and then it can kind of help you organize your brain and then you can go back to your planner or your app or whatever. But I think it can be and it might be something you revisit every six months or something like that, just to kind of get your brain kind of straight again so you don’t have to feel like it wouldn’t work for me to have an Excel Excel spreadsheet, to be my to do list that wouldn’t be accessible enough for me. But it’s a great just initial brain dump so that then your other tools will work better for you.

Are there common pitfalls, Amanda, that you see people fall into as they begin to implement this focused method? Do people run into stumbling blocks or do they get away from it for any particular reason?

Well, I think it’s when the shoulds creep up again, you know, it’s like, wow, I don’t know. I really should. And they’re really expecting me to like, I had a client or she was actually at a workshop of mine once where, you know, she talked about how her favorite day of the year is December 26th because the holidays are finally over and she can rest. And she talked about, you know, she’s an Italian and she has to do the Seven Fishes. And, you know, there’s all these traditions that she has to uphold and everybody expects her to do it. And it’s exhausting and she doesn’t enjoy any of it. And I challenged her like, what would happen if you just did? If you just didn’t do the Seven Fishes and you didn’t do this, what? A lot of people would be disappointed. Yes. When you know, all that kind of stuff. But so I think that for some people, you know, like when I challenged her, like, could you let it go? She was like, No. I have to. So I think that is the hardest part. And I think especially for women that, you know, like I was kind of when I would just kind of white knuckling my way, like I have to be able to do everything because everyone is depending on me. I know no matter the cost to myself. That’s the hardest part, is getting people to let go.

That makes sense and that is the hardest step. But I think if you can start with a process like focus and to be able to see things and to compartmentalize and to really rationalize, am I am I putting this down because it’s a feeling I have, or is it really, truly something that needs to be done? I mean, I think that that helps you go through that litmus test, whether it’s personal, whether it’s the practice, the team work, whatever the category is. I think it helps you go through that process and really have that self-talk, which is so important.

Right? Because even in the example of this woman, she could take this whole thing and say, okay, how can I focus this whole thing? So, outsource. Could I teach my granddaughter how to make the seven fishes so that next year she can do it? And then that could actually be a cool bonding experience for us. Yes. Maybe I could order the meatballs from the Italian place down. Right? So, you know, how can I take the focus method and apply it to make this whole project easier?

Exactly.

Or you could cut it, change your name and move out of town, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, join the witness, join the witness protection program and try to pretend to be Irish somewhere.

And, I don’t know.

All valid options.

Amanda, we certainly enjoyed speaking with you today about the focused method. Now, Julie and I would like to focus on Amanda for a few minutes as we focus on what we call the lightning round of questions, where we help our audience get to know a little bit more about you. So if you’re willing, I’ll ask Julie to fire away with our first lightning round question.

I’m ready.

Are you an introvert or are you an extrovert?

I am an introvert, and most people cannot believe that because I can play the extrovert game really well. But then I’ll come home and kind of be in the fetal position. So if I look right, Right. I definitely need a lot of alone time to recharge.

Are you a morning person or a night owl?

I’m a night owl, but I really want to be a morning person. I want to be that person that, like, wakes up at 530 and does yoga and takes a walk and journals. And I just love fun, but I really want to be.

Maybe some day. What’s the ideal outside temperature?

64.

Wow. A little on the chilly side. A little crisp.

I like to.

Play.

A little bit crisp. I like sweater weather.

As a child. As a child, what did you want to be when you grow up?

I wanted to be an astronaut. And in fact, I studied astronomy in college. That’s where I met my husband and an astronomical observatory in Chile.

How about that?

That’s a whole nother podcast episode.

I think that’s the beauty of these lightning round questions.

Would you rather travel to the past or to the future?

The past. I love like Anne of Green Gables. Little House on the Prairie, all of that kind of stuff. I love to travel back to that time.

My last question When you were a child, what was your favorite board game?

What was my favorite part? I think my favorite was probably Monopoly. We used to play that for hours and hours and hours, much to my father chagrin, like really again.

And my last question is, what’s the first concert you ever went to?

My gosh. I think it was probably New Kids on the Block.

Okay.

There you go.

At the Delaware State Fair.

Well, Amanda, we can’t thank you enough for joining us today on the Human Centric Investing podcast. And for our listeners, if you’re interested in learning more about how Amanda can help you declutter and organize your life, feel free to visit Indigo organizing.com. You can also hear more tips and insights from Amanda on her podcast, Good Enough ish, which you can find anywhere you get your podcasts. Amanda, thank you again for sharing your insights today on the Focus method. We really appreciate it.

It’s been a blast. Thanks so much for having me.

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The views and opinions expressed herein are those of the guest who is not affiliated with Hartford Funds.