How many people do you know who would trust their instincts to fly to China, right after college graduation, pitch a business concept to a consultant there – without speaking Mandarin, knowing the person, and really wanting a job?

My guest this week, Nathan Yeung, did just that. His work in China was the beginning of his entrepreneurial journey, He has since built a successful career helping companies build their marketing teams, and delivering new products into the market

In this episode, Nathan shares insights on the importance of familiarity in building trust, and emphasizes the power of frequent interactions and how they naturally lead to trust. Stay tuned as Nathan shares his wisdom and practical tips on nurturing meaningful relationships, and the significant role of AI tools in modern marketing.

In this episode you will learn:

• Nathan’s ideal client
• Two types of marketing activities - Maintenance and Special Initiatives,
• Marketing is actually very simple; all you have to do is to build a level of trust to attain that desired outcome
• How to build trust through familiarity
• The importance of staying ahead with AI in the marketing world

Connect with Nathan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yeungnathan/

A little about me:

I began my career as a teacher, was a corporate trainer for many years, and then found my niche training & supporting business owners, entrepreneurs & sales professionals to network at a world-class level. My passion is working with motivated people, who are coachable and who want to build their businesses through relationship marketing and networking (online & offline). I help my clients create retention strategies, grow through referrals, and create loyal customers by staying connected.

In appreciation for being here, I have a couple of gifts for you.

A LinkedIn Checklist for setting up your fully optimized Profile: https://www.janiceporter.com/linkedin-training.html

An opportunity to test drive the Follow Up system I recommend by sending a FREE greeting card (on me): www.sendacardeverytime.com

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http://JanicePorter.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiceporter/

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https://twitter.com/janiceporter

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Hi everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

of relationships rule. My guest this week is Nathan Young, who

is bicoastal? I think these days he lives in Vancouver and is

also in Toronto half the time where he is today as we speak.

So first of all, welcome to the show, Nathan.

Thank you, Janice for having me.

My pleasure, I'd love you to share with the

audience a little bit about who you are and what you do. Because

from what I've read about you, you had what what one of my

friends calls a squiggly line career. So it wasn't a

straightforward path to where you are now. So can you share a

little bit with with our audience of who you are and what

you're doing?

Yeah, so I've been an entrepreneur ever since I was

really young, it was kind of like what I always wanted to do.

So I went to school for a program called Marketing and

Entrepreneurship at school called BCIT. And that was a,

that was a fast track program. So I actually completed that in

two and a half years. So I always wanted to do marketing.

But that was not definitely my first job. My first job was

actually a VP of Finance in China. And for all you

listeners, the funny thing is, I actually don't speak Mandarin.

So you asked me how that was. That's, that's another story.

But as a VP of Finance in China, and then after that, from being

completely burnt to the ground. And I really mean that. I was a

management consultant for about four to five years working for

various angel investors in their investments and, and helping

with kind of m&a management and change management. And then,

essentially, you know, life changed and kind of thought

about what I was going to do for the rest of my life. And I went

to kind of help my family business, I moved to Toronto to

help one of our business partners open their office in

Toronto. And then I found out, I'm too much of an entrepreneur,

not great for a corporate environment. So I went back into

entrepreneurship. And here I am running, find your audience,

find your audience is a business where we're a bolt on marketing

department. And the reason why I did that was because during my

times, advising people, I had really felt like I would advise

people in management consulting, and then I would never see the

fruits of my work, or you would be kind of given off to these

freelancers or other consultants, and it wouldn't be

executed well. So I found that very frustrating. So I wanted to

solve the whole problem of like, I want to be able to advise, but

I also want to be like fully accountable to deliver that

work. But I need a team to do that. So that's essentially what

find your audiences we do everything from strategy all the

way down to nitty gritty execution. So my company is now

like 2627 employees, we hire like one or two employees, like

almost every month, and I kind of call this like a scaled up

fractional business, because now there's a lot of like different

fractional buyer advisors. There's fractional CROs. There's

fractional CMOS, you know, there's interim CEO CEOs too.

But I come with a full team. So that's kind of a difference. And

that's, that's kind of where I am right now. So about 10 years

of quote, unquote, professional marketing experience. But you

know, if I were to be honest, I've been doing marketing for

probably well over 19 years, I've been doing marketing since

I was 16. I was dabbling in email at a very young age, I was

dabbling in like, automated social media at a very young

age. So my, my, my amateur or maybe not informal years of

experience is 19 years, but my professional experience is about

10 years.

Wow, there's a lot there to unpack. That's

great. Thanks. Anything. I have to ask you, though, I'm gonna go

back to the very beginning first when you were the the financial?

Yeah, yep. Oh, I think our

VP of Finance, not the CFO. So I had no fiduciary

duty. That's actually the reason why I was like, I'm not being a

CFO, am I too young?

Right. So the VP of Finance, you lived in China,

then I lived

in China. And if you want to talk about

relationship status, that entire role came from relationships,

and None None for my family, all ones that I built myself. And

and that was that's like a, that's a beautiful story of just

like, when you hustle. And you do what people can't think you

can do and you deliver and it surprises them. Like, that's how

it got me a job. I flew to China two weeks after I graduated, and

I presented something to a consultant in China. And I was

like you had people all across North America looking for this I

brought it to a you don't know who I am, I want a job. That's

literally what I did you want?

What's your idea? Right then there that you wanted

to go and live in China for a bit? Or no,

no, I was just like, this is a phenomenal

opportunity. And if I can get a job here, it's going to like,

you know, leaps and bounds my experience leap into math in my

professional experience. So I was like, if I can get this

done, like, this is amazing. So So I took a chance I literally

flew to Shanghai didn't have a place to live and I showed up at

this guy's door, showed him what I got him and essentially he was

like, Okay, well, I don't have a job for you right now. But how

will you just work for me and just do it jobs. And that's

actually how I got the VP of Finance job. It was really like

relationships and hustle.

Well and and what I call it what the the Jewish

people call hutzpah, okay, you did it on nerve, you did it on

footside, like you believed in yourself and you were you were

brave enough to go and make that happen. And that's the heart of

an entrepreneur, I totally believe that a true

entrepreneur, we use that word very loosely these days. But I

think the true entrepreneurs are the are the visionaries, and the

people that are willing to do what it takes to make it happen.

And that totally sounds like that's, that's amazing. Thanks

for sharing that. So you talk about being involved in all the

aspects then of marketing, and I can see why because it's feels

so much better when you can see the fruits of your labor. So I

saw somewhere in one of your your posts are great, by the

way, on LinkedIn, I think that you definitely have the gift.

And marketing is definitely oozes out of you. So what

essentially, you know, when you what, what would you say? Or who

industry wise are, you don't have to be specific if you don't

want to name the companies, but your ideal client? So what gets

you excited? When you get that job? What is it about it? Is it

the industry? Is it the client? Is it the size is the the

challenge?

You know, um, I think the number one thing that

gets me excited is when my client trusts me, and makes me

fully accountable, I think that's the really, really

exciting part. So I'll give you a great example. Like we work

with a variety of different clients and in a variety of

different ways. And one client, they're not on their largest

retainer, but they're on our medium sized one. And they have

a sub business unit that they're kind of spinning up because they

have a person who owns a p&l themselves, and they want to

spin this up as a bit more of a business. And so the the, the

the owner of the business, or the CEO came to me and says, you

know, hey, you know, I don't really want this to be

additional scope and like, how are you going to do that. And I

said to him, I was like, Look, as long as you give us creative

freedom. And as long as you are okay with us doing what we think

is the most important, which actually streamlines our work a

lot. The reason why our work is not streamlined is typically

because of client feedback cycles. If we actually were just

allowed to be accountable, we would actually be far more

efficient. So so the CEO was kind of like, yeah, absolutely.

And I was like, Are you sure? Like 100% He's like, he's like,

Nathan, I hired you guys, because you guys know what

you're doing. This is not the most important business for us.

But it is important. And I don't want to increase scope. So if

you're telling me you just need to be accountable, and you're

not gonna charge me for it, and it just can fall under our

current retainer. That's great. Go do it. I was like, okay, but

here's the name. Are you cool with this name? He's like, it's

a little corny. But yes. And I was like, well, it's corny,

because I have no budget to market it. So it has to be a

little quirky. Right. And so he was just like, go for it. It's

not sexy. It's not huge. But we get so much joy because it's

like full accountability, our creative angle, our copywriting,

our headlines, our taglines, our benefits statement, like it's

all us. That's really fun. So our ideal client is really one

that understands, hey, I don't have marketing chops. Or at

least I've come to the realization I don't, I need to

go hire someone. And I don't have the capacity to hire a full

team. So I'll go to Nathan. And I'll hire him because I know

he's got eight designers, you know, three web developers,

three content writers like all these things behind them. And

that's a full team. And I can't afford $40,000 worth of overhead

a month for a full team. So it makes sense to hire me. That's

like our favorite client, because there's a lot of clients

that kind of call us accountable, but they hold the

reins on everything, and everything is designed by

committee. And that is that's not really fun for us.

Because that would take away your creativity

immensely. Yeah. And

honestly, it's kind of defeats the purpose,

right? So it's like if you're hiring us, you're hiring us to

help you prioritize, you're hiring us to help you align,

you're hiring us to help you execute. So to put us on a

leash, it's kind of counterintuitive to the hiring

process.

Mm hmm. And so it's from a company standpoint,

it's a project it's not I have to don't have to hire somebody

for the entire year as a marketer or as like it's a

project kind of based thing right? They get your company

a lot a lot of our companies hire us for over a

year so like our average our average client in years like

three and a half years and the reason is is because like my job

as like a fractional cmo comes in waves, because it's such as

like Identify and now like I analyzed the needs, identify our

priorities, and then we initiate those projects. So as they start

to initiate projects, that goes back to the team so that my

involvement cycles, right, but the the execution of marketing

activities is happening all throughout the year. And I break

this out, as there's two types of activities, there's like

maintenance activities, and I use that word lightly. Because

it's sometimes can be misconstrued as like, post

maintenance, just like posting a social, it's like no

maintenance, it's just like, the general activities like, what

like a well oiled car, right, you need the oil, so you need

the oil to work, it doesn't do a lot. But like, if you don't have

it, it's not going to work well. And then you have like, the

special initiatives. So that's like, the turbocharger on your

car, right. So that's the one that gives you the boost. So

every business has maintenance activities, and then every

business should have additional budget for special initiatives.

So those are either launching new products going into a new

market, or just like promotions, or things like that. So those

are your campaigns and things like that. And and so, so we

kind of ebb and flow with maintenance and special

initiatives as needed for most of our organizations. Okay, that

makes sense. So your role, obviously, you know,

that my podcast and my beingness is all about relationships and

relationship building. And you said it right at the beginning

of that last piece about trust? And I would imagine that your

role, then is your that you're the person out there selling

right, you're the front of the company, right?

Yeah, absolutely. I think I think a lot of times

when companies choose us, it's because of potentially, my

relationship with them. And the trust that's built from that

relationship. And I think, because I've said this to a lot

of people, marketing is actually very simple. All you have to do

is your marketing needs to build a level of trust that your

services or solutions will get them to their desired outcome.

And I think that's something that a lot of people forget,

it's, it's less about selling them on. Yeah, yes, you have

benefits and pain points and all these fancy copywriting

language. But the point is, is that when a person makes that

decision, it's actually trust. And it's trust, that you will

deliver that outcome or trust that I have the highest amount

of trust for you, as a consultant or a vendor to

deliver that desired outcome, right, because everyone is

promising the desired outcome. So a lot of the things that we

do, whether it's through marketing, sales, or just purely

just relationships, is building that trust to attain that

desired outcome.

Right. And like, I was thinking, I read one of

your posts on LinkedIn. And I think it was about the

familiarity principle. And I'm not sure if this fits into it or

not. But when I was thinking about that, I was thinking that

I think I'm always a label shopper, I've always been a

label shopper, and I hate the generic brand. I don't have the

same trust in those things as I do in the Apple product, or the,

you know, the, I don't know, if I think you know, I always want

to buy the brand name, not the copy. I don't know if it's snob

appeal, or if it's just that familiarity, that it's always

been a brand that I can trust. I think your article talked a bit

about the word the the song that gets stuck in your head. And

that's how you talked about you can share it if you like a

little bit about that. But what does that mean? Am I on the

right track this?

Absolutely familiarity principle just comes

with the fact that like when you are familiar with something or

someone, there is actually an inherent trust that's built from

this. And I describe this in a layman's kind of analogy, or

metaphor in the sense of like, lets us imagine you're going to

school, you don't have a car. So you are taking public transit.

And as many of you know, when you're going on public transit,

whether that's going to work or to school, and you have a very

regimented schedule, you likely run into the same people on

transit. And if you don't, every single time, you know that maybe

about 30% of the people are actually repeats, they're not

repeats every day, but you definitely see them, you know,

once twice, three or four or five times a week. What's

really, really interesting is you aren't really realizing it,

but even the fact that you're just simply on that same bus or

train or whatever you are, whatever public transit system

you are on, you're actually creating this very thin layer of

trust amongst yourself and you don't even know it because it

now if I want you to think about this, I want you to imagine this

for a second. I just want you to imagine a random stranger coming

up to you and asking for your cell phone. There's there's a

lack of there's a there's a ton of anxiety that gets built into

you. Now out of just being a nice person you might feel

obligated to give that person your phone because you know like

what could go wrong, but Now I want you to take an imagine that

same scenario, but now imagine it with that one or two persons,

or one or the two people you've always seen on the same bus or

train again, and they asked you for the cell phone. And I want

you to be really honest with yourself, do you think you

actually have the same level of anxiety, giving you the sale?

And so just through familiarity and frequency, they build trust

with you with absolutely no interaction? Right. And that's

what familiar you guys. And so subconsciously, as you are

repeated as you have repeated exposures to the same things,

trust is actually being built, whether you know it or not. And

that's essentially what the familiarity principle does in

layman's terms is that when you are frequent, this is why people

do retargeting, right? So retargeting ads to make sure you

see it. That's why you see a lot of ads everywhere. And that's

why you see a lot of studies about frequency, and how many

times you have to show ads to certain people. So that is the

familiarity principle. And and it's a beautiful thing. But it's

also really, really important for relationships, like think

about it as simply simply as like, Do you really think you're

going to have a great relationship with a client or a

potential vendor? If you only see them? Once a year? Or you've

only emailed them once or twice? No? Right? So so constant

interaction constant frequency, that's building familiarity. And

when you build familiarity, you naturally build trust.

Yeah, that's, it's so funny. I had a woman

that I was introduced, I wasn't introduced. I had a campaign

going on LinkedIn, and her name came up to someone to connect

with. She said, Yes, I looked at her profile. And I went, I think

I know this woman. And I went to my closet and found this book

that I knew that's what it was. And it was a workbook about

telephone courtesy that I had bought when I was teaching

telephone courtesy back in the 90s. Okay. And this was the

woman who had written that book. Now, I didn't know her at all, I

just bought that book. She was a person at that time and still

goes by the telephone doctor, because she was all about

telephone courtesy. Well, when that when her name showed up, as

she accepted my connection request, I had to tell her that

story. We were like, best friends in five minutes, because

of that interaction, so many umpteen years ago, that, you

know, neither one of us knew the other person, but that trust in

that that connection was there. And now we're like best friends.

It's so funny.

Yeah, and familiarity is the same

principle as finding, like, you know, like subjects that people

are interested in, right. So if you know that your your

potential clients has kids, and those kids like karate, and your

kids go to karate, there is a sense of familiarity when you

have that topic in common. And that again, builds trust, right,

and so familiar to you know, is is just the outcome of, of

certain things in life are certain effects in life. But

familiarity, just that feeling, really, really encapsulate like

a lot of opportunities to build trust. And if you know how to

create familiarity, it's a great tool to use.

Yeah, I call it when I'm talking, when I'm

teaching people on LinkedIn, how to engage with people that

they've just met, or that they want to get to know because they

want to pursue any possible lead generation from that is building

rapport. It's about building rapport. And it's looking for

those signals that you know, those things on their profile

that they could use to leap frog from that, you know, to build

rapport, which is so true. I had hoped that when I first met you

that talking about your little girl, which just made you light

up, amazingly. And I have the same experience with my little

granddaughter who's a little bit older than Naomi, right, is that

your Yeah. And that was a way to build rapport with you. And and,

you know, and then that was one of the first things that I

wanted to talk about when I saw you again today. So yes, I think

that's so important is building rapport, female building

familiarity, and getting people to trust and the sooner you get

it, the better obviously, I wanted to ask you this was not

on anything except that actually, I saw this on your

LinkedIn profile, that you are part of pavilion. Now. Is that

because I had the owner of that on my podcast, Sam Jacobs? Yes.

Yeah. So that was an interesting platform that he created. Are

you still part of that you were quite involved with it? I

think I am still a part of it. So I'm

hypothetically an envoy, which means I lead a small group, the

line Law Group in Toronto. I'm also a part of the fractional

Consulting Group and also the CMO group. So I'm part of a

different group, but I only lead the language group which is a

Toronto, kind of segment of the pavilion group. And it's been,

it's been an interesting experience. Um, I would say

that, you know, as a person who also grows private community, so

I have kind of our private community executives that I kind

of curates and program events for, I would do things

differently. It's been a great platform to meet new people I've

met, probably what I would consider Shara Bell, if you're

ever doing Account Based Marketing to be called out to

her. And Janice, if you get an opportunity to talk to her,

she's an amazing person, Shara is I would go on to be

considered a lifelong business friend. She and I have a small

little private community together, and we talk very

openly and honestly about our business. So I've made some, you

know, absolutely amazing relationships. I think just in

terms of some of the event programs, there could be some

changes,

of course, well, you should tell Sam.

I've left my feedback.

Okay. Yeah, no, it's just such a small world in

a way because his book kind folk finished first was, wasn't his

story. And, and he also talks about the the importance of

trust and building relationships to you know, to do what you need

to do. And so he created his own platform around that. So just an

aside as a busy entrepreneur, and I've got two more questions

to ask you. One is, as a busy entrepreneur, do you read,

listen, or watch the most? Right, so are you a book? Do you

read books? Do you listen to books? Do you watch videos?

listen to podcasts? What's your favorite thing?

Oh, I'm so that's so that's a great question. I am

so incredibly busy these days, I probably my form of consumption

or two things, I would say audiobooks right now, and

YouTube videos. So I used to love and I still have an

absolutely monstrous Kindle library I have yet to play

through. But I would say like, just because I'm so busy, I try

to maximize my time with audiobooks. And definitely when

it comes to hands on execution, it's definitely YouTube videos.

And that's like this, that mostly then for

looking you're looking to how to do something, or is that podcast

type things, or interviews and things like that.

So for audio books there, they're mainly just books

on marketing. So I'm always trying to think about like, I

can't be the smartest person in the room. So I have to listen to

all these books, because they must have better angles than me.

So I'm always listening to marketing books, strategy,

books, management, and just relationship like, you know,

kind of EQ type books, leadership books, so everything

is business oriented. Basically, I'm a very boring audiobook

person. Um, and then courses by any chance, like so the the

teaching company was something that I loved listening to,

because they all had Ivy League Teachers speaking about courses.

So I used to listen to those all the time. For YouTube. It's

definitely instructional how to, so I'm, I'm not going to

consider myself like a fully graduated Python coder. But I'd

give myself like a level 200 like I'm on my second year. So

I'm very comfortable. But I'm not a fluid programmer. So

often, I am trying to hack my way through generative ai, ai,

and I'm creating small tools for myself. So I'm generally

watching those videos just because there are a million

people smarter than me in that space. And there are at least

100 YouTube videos that are far easier for me to do it than for

me to try to figure out on my own.

All right, fair enough. And are you that, of

course poses another question about AI and chat GPT. And all

of that, do you incorporate that stuff now into your

1,000,000%. So as soon as Jack GPT and I said this

on another podcast, as soon as GPT came out, I had literally

reallocated one of my resources to be a full time AI person. So

his first month on the job was literally just analyzing AI

tools. So I was like, I don't want you writing a word. I just

want everything to be generated. And then I need you to come back

and tell me like, how is it working? What are the

constraints? Why won't it work? And let's figure out what this

looks like in my workflow. So like AI is massive in our

organization. And if you're listening right now, and you're

not using any AI tools, you are going to get behind and you're

going to get behind very quick.

Yeah, it's interesting. I know it's hard to

keep up with everything these days, but it seems as though if

you use if you use it my limited experience if you use it. Number

one you got know what to ask it and be specific. And number two,

you have to realize that it only has access to what's already

happened. So don't you know, you've got to make it your own

after that anyway? Then it would be okay. But I would never, you

know, there's so many dangers around it. But that's the same

with anything when something's new and people try to find their

own way around. Right. So, yeah, definitely interesting. Okay,

last question. It's two parts. And I love to ask my my guests

this. And my favorite word is curiosity. So number one, do you

think curiosity is innate or learned? And part two? What are

you most curious about these days?

It's innate or learned? I think that's such an

interesting question. And I think if I were to lean into it,

I would say curiosity is innate. And the reason I would say that

is because I think some people feel like many people aren't

just naturally curious. And I would counter that comment is

no, they probably are, you're just not interested in the same

topic. Okay, and so therefore, their curiosity is not one of

generality. It's one of specificity. And so therefore,

if you don't have that same interest, and you're not going

to be curious, and neither are they, so So I would say, I think

everyone is curious. I think the only reasons why we don't find

things curious to one another is likely the fact that they're not

they have no interest, essentially. So I would say I

would definitely be on in need. What am I most curious about

God, I'm curious about a lot of things. I am, I am definitely

the type of person who will read like a Wikipedia article. And

then we'll go through every single footnote, because I'm

curious. So I'll give a good example I started right. So if

any of you guys ever decide to follow me and want to see my

face every day talking about psychology topics, on marketing,

I ventured, this year, just the beginning of year starting my

content. And I started moving towards this direction where I

really want to make marketing and consumer psychology really

easy to consume. And I want to I may want it to be applicable to

agile marketing tactics. And so I have essentially journeyed

into this whole, like, mountainous, incredibly

uncomfortable amount of research, where I'm reading, I

think there's a total of 635 research articles that I have in

my library right now that I've compiled. And I am going through

them to essentially create the content that I'm producing on

LinkedIn, and Instagram and Tiktok. And I love it. Because

every single time, I actually get a chance to go through one

more article, I go, Oh, my God. And then I want to read one

more. And it's like, Oh, my God, I don't want to read another

one. I'm like, Oh, my God, like, what? Why didn't I know this

before? Or why don't you know this research existed? And I

find that fascinating, like, I love learning something and not

knowing that I didn't know it, right. Like, it's like, it

bothers me. There's like an innate thing that bothers me

about it. So I just want to learn more. So I'm just curious

about everything like, and, you know, I think I'm the same. I'm

very curious about business oriented things. So if you, you

know, maybe talk to me about, you know, flowers, I might not

have the best follow up questions of curiosity. But if

you if you talk about, you know, the greatest copywriter in the

1900s, I'd be like, Oh, who is it? Oh, what kind of framework

did they use? How long was he alive? Or what publisher did he

work for? I'd have a million questions. So I definitely love

business and I love and I'm definitely like very much in

love with like consumer psychology and the parallel

paths that they have in marketing. And that's been

incredibly fascinating for me.

Well, you just basically use yourself as an

example for what you had stated in part one, which is brilliant.

Yeah. That you know, if it's something you're interested in

the questions just start coming right. Yeah. Yeah, that's thank

you for sharing that your your answer actually was was one I

hadn't really heard very often before and maybe once before,

but it's so true. I get what you're saying. That being said,

you know, there's an argument for we may all it may be innate,

but a lot of it gets kicked out of some people depending on

their, you know, their path through school or their paths

through their Life, whatever. And then, so I don't know, like,

I mean, there's no I'm not gonna say your answers wrong or right

or anybody else on my shoulder, it's just really interesting

that the majority of people actually, well, I'm not gonna

say, it's all good. Anyway, someday I might, I might use

these these quotes in the book, I don't know, we'll see. I'll

let you know. But um, but thank you, this was a delight and

really interesting to, to talk to someone who's so passionate

about what they do. And I could tell that I know that there's,

there's as passionate and as you know, blinders on as you are

about business and learning, I think that you have probably a

lot more, I know, you look fit. So you probably care about that.

You've got a child, I know you love that. So that's a whole

other world for you. And I'm sure there's other things as

well. So interesting conversation. Glad to talk to

you. Thank you so much, you have one last business tip for my

audience.

Be aware of the spotlight effect, or spotlight

syndrome. For all you business owners, I know that it's scary

for you to start. And likely you have something called the

overconfidence bias, which you probably think you're smarter

than you are, which you may or may not be. But that also lends

itself to this idea of you're you think your failures are

going to be bigger than they are as well. And so my biggest

recommendation for anyone, when it just comes to business,

especially when it comes to marketing, if you're if you're a

small business owner, you can mess up on marketing a whole lot

before it really matters because you don't have the reach. You

don't have impressions. Okay, you might mess up one or two

very key relationships. But I'm just going to tell you right

now, when it comes to sales, that's one or two of 1000 that

you're going to have to deal with. So don't worry about that.

Don't be a perfectionist, start and iterate. And it's okay. I

think that's my biggest thing. It's just some people get far

too caught up on their image. And being perfect, it's not

worth it. spotlight effect does not affect you, you don't have

the reach, you don't have the impression. So just go do it. Go

have fun, and be silly with your marketing. Here's the number one

thing that I'm going to say for everyone, this is the biggest

tip, okay? If you don't have money, and you don't have

distribution, you have to somehow create an impression

that matters. And the only way you're going to do that is by

invoking some emotion or being a little bizarre. So don't be

scared about having a silly brand. Just make sure that you

actually care and are passionate about it. So that's the big

thing, right? So make sure it's memorable and own it. And that's

okay. So don't don't try to be professional off the bat,

especially if you don't have the money for it. Makes no sense. I

think that's

great. And I think that my audience should go

and check out your website, find your audience, dot online dot

online and go and look at the 20 tips on how to promote your

small business for free, because that was really useful. But

there's lots of other cool things in there as well. But

that just caught my eye this morning. So thank you. Thank you

and to my audience, you can read reach Nathan at his website,

find your audience dot online or on LinkedIn I'm sure and I know

that you're on LinkedIn for sure. And and remember to stay

connected and be remembered