In this episode, Trisha interviews Kristin Joy Ekkens, an award-winning cultural strategist and CEO of Exponential Inclusion. They discuss Kristin's journey into cultural intelligence (CQ), her experiences with Latino culture, and her transformative work with organizations. They delve into the metacognitive aspect of CQ, thinking about thinking, and how strategies can help individuals and organizations manage diversity effectively. Kristin shares insights from her work with Edgewalkers, network creators, and her vision for a global movement promoting shared humanity and inclusive practices. Listeners gain a deep understanding of how CQ impacts personal and organizational growth, and how fostering empathy and strategic thinking can bridge cultural divides. Connect with Kristin on LinkedIn or through the Exponential Inclusion website for more information on her initiatives.

References from this episode

Inclusion at Scale Podcast: Episode 10 with Dr Judi Neal

Tanya Crossman - Third Culture Kids

Grace Boker Mungkaje - Deciding when to climb the tree

I would like to acknowledge the Dharawal people, the Aboriginal people of Australia, whose country I live and work on. I would like to pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging, and thank them for sharing their cultural knowledge and awareness with us.

[00:01:27] Trisha: In this podcast, we're focusing more on the metacognitive aspect, sometimes referred to as thinking about our thinking, and it is CQ strategy. Today's guest is another CQ fellow, I first met Kristin in 2023 in Singapore, where we had some wonderful in depth discussions and have done since then. Welcome to Kristin Ekkins.

[00:01:53] Trisha: thank you for being here. Let me introduce you a little bit. Kristin is an award winning cultural strategist. She's a solutions architect. A master facilitator, a high performance coach, a TEDx speaker, and an entrepreneur. She is the CEO and founder of Exponential Inclusion, a company designed to enhance cultural intelligence and leverage inclusion and belonging to boost organizational and global impact.

[00:02:38] Trisha: and seeing her as an edgewalker herself. Today I'm curious to learn more about the work you're doing, Kristin, and the community you're creating, what makes it powerful, and how you help people shift in their thinking to see different perspectives. But first, the questions we ask all our guests. So Kristin, what is a culture, other than the culture you grew up in, that you have learned to love and appreciate?

[00:03:42] Kristin: And so I, I teach English to speakers of other languages. That's actually what my start was.

[00:03:51] Kristin: Yes, yes. And so for me, it comes down to understanding the people and I've just had a true passion for understanding Latinos who have come specifically even to West Michigan, where I live, and understand Who they are, where they've come from, the roots of what's made them who they are.

[00:04:36] Trisha: And in an earlier episode, we interviewed Lauren from our CQ Fellows cohort, and we spoke about some of those values that are, that are key to her as well. So yeah, that's wonderful. Thank you. Can you tell me about a time when you experienced the shift when you suddenly became aware of a new perspective?

[00:05:21] Kristin: That's it can be very disruptive. And at the same time, I would say that shift for me was disruptive yet healthy. So what I saw and what I experienced was, the role of relationships and how we connect to people. And I always felt like an outsider in the United States when it came to this, but I didn't know why.

[00:06:06] Kristin: That, generally speaking, it is more a way of task based and focus on getting the job done and focus on, business first, for example, rather than building relationship first.

[00:06:49] Kristin: That I didn't want to go back to that job because it was so transactional. And I sought out opportunities that I could connect further. And actually that led me into teaching English at night to adults. who were migrant workers in their camp.

[00:07:16] Kristin: absolutely. But then also important to understand, I mean, I saw it even differently than my family, everyone around me. It felt like, it felt like in the moment, no one else saw it this way. But what I've realized, you know, that was 20 plus years ago. And I realized, well, that's, that wasn't the case. There were many relational people around me.

[00:07:54] Trisha: Yeah, that's encouraging and good on you for doing the work to unpack it. You know, in, in my work with, people who move across cultures with their work, I have encountered people who have come back and just said, I'm, I'm feeling really depressed and haven't actually unpacked what's sitting behind that feeling. So good on you for doing the work and unpacking it and recognizing where it was coming from rather than, you know, the, the sense of, malaise that sometimes sits with those sorts of shifts.

[00:08:46] Kristin: That I went much deeper into my, my higher education studies, you know, so finished off college and then went for my undergrad or my, my graduate school looking at, it was a mixture of language and culture and social linguistics and understanding. Well, what makes us who we are and our identities. And so that, that truly brought me into the space of cultural intelligence without knowing,

[00:09:34] Kristin: and that's not an easy thing either. I, I seem to choose the challenging projects. In terms of the organizational shifts, so I didn't realize at the time, that's what I was really doing at first for, and because I started with individuals and then went into teams and helping leadership then, and more building bridges around communication and culture, that type of thing.

[00:10:23] Kristin: If that was going to be a more inclusive organization and that's what they hired me to help them with, then it was actually the networks inside.

[00:10:50] Trisha: Right.

[00:11:37] Kristin: They, they see the world, their background, their experiences, but they come together with this common, goal of creating good in the world or in their organization, their community, whatever it looks like. And as they come together and build up their skills and figure out now, how do I be a champion in this space or a change maker?

[00:12:19] Kristin: CQ fell and other things, right?

[00:12:42] Kristin: And so these were to train these flight attendants who are working from the five star, you know, service and figuring out how in the business class, even to, you know, the economy, what, what does it look like? Well, I got a call from them in January, just this past year. So five years ago is when we went and did the training and, I'm saying this because of the shift that happened, but I didn't even realize over the five years when they called and I was talking to them, they said, we've had a major shift. And what they said was 15, 000 people are now trained internally in cultural intelligence because of you and Dr. Livermore did five years ago.

[00:13:45] Trisha: Absolutely.

[00:13:59] Trisha: So, as you've been doing that train the trainer, you referred to that work you've done, you have trained, I don't know, thousands upon thousands of people in training, cultural intelligence and coaching, training and coaching. many of us, you know, have taken that, that training that we did and, you know, used it in different areas.

[00:14:34] Kristin: I would say, and I'll add a piece that for me, it became, important to add consulting to it, too. So I became an advisor, right? And then consulting and the coaching and facilitating and you put on as we do whatever hat we need to put on at that moment to help move the needle. And so what what I found for CQ strategy in particular, that is again, as you mentioned, thinking about thinking.

[00:15:25] Kristin: First, that's the very first step, because how many times do we plan for maybe a discussion we're going to have, but we don't plan on how we're going to have that discussion, or what key things will help us connect more effectively with that person we're sitting across from. So, Just even the, the piece of sitting down and journaling or sitting down and asking questions with, with a persona in mind.

[00:16:11] Kristin: And I actually do canvas maps with them. And that's a great way to engage in this work. How would that person, you know, creates empathy. How would that person feel in this situation? What would they be thinking? What do they see? All of those things to help them just engage in someone else's, potential mind,

[00:16:32] Kristin: Reality yes. And that they may not be a hundred percent accurate because they're not that person. They haven't had that feeling and experience, but if we were to take it a step further, and even now with chat GPT, you can. Without having to engage other human beings in the process, right?

[00:16:52] Kristin: That's not necessarily goal, but maybe the next step.

[00:17:51] Kristin: And going out and observing in the workplace, for example, if they're in the business, then they're actually observing to see what is the evidence of what they thought about that. And so they're testing their hypothesis during this process. And then afterward reflecting on it. And that could be engaging someone who does have that mindset or whatever that person is, that is, they're going to have a conversation with.

[00:18:35] Trisha: That's wonderful. And, not just going on assumptions that might've been sitting somewhere in their head. Yeah. So let's turn to the work that you're focusing on right now and the shifts that you're helping people to make through this work. Tell me a bit about that.

[00:19:17] Kristin: And my goal is actually to create even a global movement around this and shift how how we collaborate together and how we as humans connect and a critical piece of that to truly connect with others, is cultural intelligence and to be able to work and relate effectively across all these various cultures that we walk between.

[00:20:02] Kristin: We need the change makers and these change makers. Then I call them edge walkers and I didn't create this title. I want to give a head nod to Dr. Judi Neal, and she is, she's an incredible human being who in. 2008, I think it was, wrote a book about edgewalkers. I knew nothing about it until just a few years ago when I thought a friend and I had created the term and I went to go coin it and realized, no, someone else already figured this out and actually, so beautifully figured this out. So Dr. Judi, Neal and I, she's become a mentor, a friend, someone who, who is actually a guru and global thought leader in change and in transformation. And so it's been incredible to learn from her.

[00:20:56] Kristin: so then I started

[00:21:14] Kristin: I appreciate that. Thank you because it is it's quite a bit to explain, but if someone is truly interested in this, that is a perfect way for them to learn more about it and seek out more information. And you know, the, the key thing for me around edge walking. So, with Dr. Neal, so Judi, her blessing, I was able to create a membership that's around So it's really about creating a space for these edge walkers to come together.

[00:22:11] Kristin: Others have learned the skills to bridge the worlds and now they're bridging worlds for other people so that people can stay more connected and understand who they are, how they can show up to this world as the best version of themselves. And so it's been really fun to see because these edge walkers, change makers, these are people who want a positive shift in the world.

[00:22:37] Trisha: I just want to, jump in for the listeners. So some of you who have been, you know, following the shift podcast for a while will perhaps like maybe immediately thinking of a few. So, um, one is Tanya who spoke about TCKs and who's done a great deal of research about TCKs, uh, and herself.

[00:23:18] Trisha: So I'll put again, both of those episodes in the show notes so that people can listen to them because I think, their examples will be ones that would move and encourage people as well. Yeah.

[00:23:39] Trisha: Right, yes.

[00:23:44] Trisha: exactly

[00:23:45] Trisha: yes,

[00:23:57] Kristin: That's right. And, and the, the thing that they have in common is, some people see them, you know, whatever words they might use, but as disruptors, or if you think about change, most people don't enjoy change. Some do, but it depends what's changing and how that will impact our lives and, you know, how that will shift everything else.

[00:25:18] Kristin: The distractions have gotten greater, the disconnect has gotten greater, and there are certain points in history where that has been the case and that's been. Very powerfully strong in a negative way,

[00:25:31] Kristin: but we as humans right now have the ability to come together and to connect and create a force for good.

[00:25:46] Trisha: Tell me a little bit more about the human experience that you're hoping for.

[00:26:14] Kristin: Bring it back to that simple, basic thing. We are all humans.

[00:26:21] Kristin: Yes. And we have a shared humanity and. If that is the case, then how can we see each other differently when we start conversation? So it goes back to the CQ strategy. How can we pause? And that's the biggest thing that I teach when I'm talking about CQ strategy and the metacognition it's pausing.

[00:27:05] Kristin: And if that's the case, then let's just pause for a moment. And consider why it's there and why we're thinking differently.

[00:27:13] Kristin: That's, that's a major piece that I'm looking at when, when working with companies as well. So back to that question.

[00:27:39] Kristin: Yes. Yes. So in one human experience, we have it offered in different ways, but one of the ways to scale it so that we can work with many people from all around the world. Is that there are components of e learning and so video based e learning. So I'm teaching and sharing stories. It's very human, right?

[00:28:21] Kristin: We use cultural intelligence is one of those that we can choose to use in a program for a client. And we do bring this in house to companies, but we also will be offering it more large scale. Because we find that even some individuals will want to better curious. They want to understand the human experience and what connects us all.

[00:29:06] Kristin: And then experimenting together. So that's the third component. And they actually go off and are connected to people to do many experiments to test out what they've learned throughout and then come into our community space to do that. So. It's all about connection and creating a safe space because sometimes many times we don't have enough safe spaces to test some of our ideas and especially when it relates to inclusion and belonging and when it relates to understanding how to more effectively have connections with others who are different from us.

[00:29:53] Kristin: And so that's my goal is to help create spaces where it's more comfortable to have these conversations and shift because we're coming in with the intention. And this is part of the thing right off the bat, the intention is to create better relationships with each other and ourselves and have collective impact as a result.

[00:30:28] Kristin: So the action is critical, not just learning, but taking it into action.

[00:30:40] Kristin: That's actually the very first module is focused on self. And, and it's also, we talk about at your very core, , you know, what makes you who you are. And at the same time, if you don't care for that person,

[00:30:58] Kristin: but also well being care for that

[00:31:05] Kristin: And so there is a critical component of if we're going to talk about managing our energy and how we feel when we're with other people and how they, we may react to them. We have to be in the right mindset to do that and it's gotta be focused on our growth and also the well being and wholeness of who we are.

[00:31:45] Trisha: How can I point people towards you?

[00:32:11] Trisha: brilliant. And then they'll hear about offerings that you might have for training opportunities.

[00:32:17] Trisha: Fantastic. And I will add in those aspects that we spoke about so that people can see that in the show notes as well. Kristin, thank you so much for this conversation. It feels like every time we talk, we get that little bit deeper.

[00:32:37] Trisha: We We will have that opportunity.

[00:32:59] Kristin: And, um, just appreciate all the work that you're doing, Trisha.