What if you weren’t afraid of being fully booked—but of what it might cost you?

That was a quiet concern Betty carried—and one so many First Gen entrepreneurs know too well.

As a daughter of Chinese-Burmese immigrants and an Authenticity coach, being booked out initially didn’t feel like freedom. It felt like pressure, perfectionism, and losing space to be.

And yet - Betty became a booked-out coach with a 2-month waitlist while in Reclamation Mastermind. 

This is Betty’s second round inside Reclamation and second time on the podcast (my first ever two-time guest!)

In the first round of the mastermind, Betty hit their biggest revenue quarter and landed paid speaking engagements and workshops for big brands like Olly Vitamins.

And this round? She’s fully booked, beyond what was expected as a ‘booked out’ number.

We talk about what it really means to hit your version of capacity, especially when your business is rooted in identity, depth, and alignment—not just strategy.

In this episode:

• How Betty ended up fully booked without chasing it
• Feeling safe to be booked out after a lifetime of over-functioning and overworking
• Why quiet seasons were the key to sustainable growth
• How Reclamation helped structure her marketing to further support and stabilize what was already working (her referrals), while growing her thought leadership, leads and visibility through speaking, LinkedIn and YouTube.

If you’ve been wondering how to grow without changing what’s working—this one’s for you.

If you saw yourself in Betty’s story - know that it can be yours too.

You belong in Reclamation. Doors are open so apply now - we won't reopen again until March 2026.

• Apply for Reclamation: www.marieladelamora.com/reclamation
• Join Betty's newsletter
• Betty's Youtube
• Betty's website

Hey everyone, welcome to Cycle Breakers and Money Makers. I'm very excited to be interviewing my client, Betty Chan, who's in Reclamation. This is the second time, it's the first time I've ever brought someone on twice, but yeah, you're just like gasped, love it. I think that.

Mm-hmm.

You

I did it.

Sometimes we have a new story to tell along a similar continuum, I think. And when you were on earlier in the year, it was because you had had, I think the title was like a record breaking quarter after disappointment. And disappointment really is just like the pressure we put on ourselves as entrepreneurs. And it really illustrated how entrepreneurship is so illogical. Like if you're like one plus one equals two, like that.

Yes.

episode really was just sort of about like the shifts that allowed you to create that quarter, but also like, think owned the way that you create clients and success and like your strengths. So I'm excited to have you back to talk about being booked out a term that you even yourself was like, what does booked out even mean? I wasn't even like looking for being booked out, but I want, I would love for you to, kind of just share being, what does it

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

what did it look like to be booked out? What were the shifts behind it? How did you own your strengths and what was already working? We're going to talk about your relationship with marketing and just the mindset shifts and all of that. So welcome, welcome, and thank you for being here again. So I'll just say open up by just introducing yourself however it comes natural to you.

Mm-hmm.

Of course, of course.

This is good practice for me always. Hi everyone. My name is Betty Chan. Yeah, my name is Betty Chan. My pronouns are she, they and I usually introduce myself as an Authenticity Life Coach, a speaker and a facilitator. I work primarily with first gen leaders, entrepreneurs.

Yeah, there's no wrong way.

⁓ But also folks I just call like quiet powerhouses exhausted achievers code switchers people who feel like they Have a version of themselves that they see in their mind or they want to be and then the version of who they are right now Feels a little disjointed from that So a lot of the work that I do in authenticity coaching is helping us realign who we are today and who we want to become So that we can do what I the triple whammy which I call you live you lead and you love without hiding who you are

Mmm.

Yeah.

So that's a lot of my work. Took me a long time to be able to figure out how say that. So thank you for letting me practice that always. ⁓ But also just a little bit more about myself. I'm an only child of Chinese immigrant parents and I'm an avid boxer and crafter. And I think Mariela, say every time you talk to me, you find out something new about me. So maybe we'll find out something new today.

Yeah.

Oh, I love it, yeah.

Yes, and I feel like those different parts of you too are also why you are being authenticity because I think about, you've really taught me a lot about what authenticity means. think beyond what sometimes what we're taught, which is like authenticity means being, like saying everything that you're thinking and being the same person in every situation. And I think a lot of what you're,

story in Who You Are has shown me is that you, authenticity is also actually being different aspects of yourself and that you could be all of those without being exactly the same person in each situation, that all of the different identities and interests and parts of you are all part of what make you who you are.

Yes, definitely.

Yes, so I love that. I will hop into like a bigger question and then I want to ask you more specifics on like kind of what created it. And my intention really is showing folks that booking out, which is a term that I was I kind of say it in air quotes, because it's such a personal decision to say like,

What does booking out mean for me and how it can look really different and how for some business owners, the goal isn't being booked out because they have a different model and that just doesn't work or it doesn't make sense, right? So it really just means almost like hitting a personal threshold in terms of like, I feel like I'm at what feels like capacity. And now I'm asking myself different questions that I wasn't asking myself before. So tell me about booking out like.

Did it surprise you how it happened? How did it happen? Just like kind of tell us what happened. And there's always surprises because we never think it's going to happen the way that it does.

Yeah.

no, it definitely surprised me this time because I wasn't looking for it. didn't, I think a little part of me thought it wasn't possible this year given how the start of the year began. And I still remember messaging you. I'm like, Mariela, I'm surprisingly booked out. I have so many thoughts going through my mind. And like, it just, went into logistical mode because booked out to me always means there's going to be very little room for anything else. There's

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

the

margin for error, the margin for change, the margin for surprise is going to be a lot less. And like coming from a decade of project management, that's usually where my role really kicked in to like, how do we make sure things lined up so that we can keep going, keep doing what we want to do. But so yeah, definitely, it definitely caught me off guard. And it still feels weird to say out loud. I'm overbooked actually, for the month of October, I'm overbooked. And

Yeah. You're overbooked.

I actually owed you an update, so here, I'm gonna give you all the live on this conversation. We're waiting for two more people to respond. So one of them said yes, one of them said actually in December. So I'm gonna be booked out for November as well as December. So the rest of this year. And that's a new feeling for me because usually I get booked out for one month. January's probably like around, yeah, like 80 % full at the moment.

Okay, yeah, give me an update. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, good, okay.

Okay. So does that mean January? Is that the next spot?

Okay, you'll be at 80

% full in January, possibly, depending on if people renew. That's wild, yeah. Yeah, and it's more than you. So tell us, I was gonna say, I know that you're currently supporting like more than you thought your book number was gonna be, which this is the thing is that we think that we know what that number is and then we get there and then sometimes it just, can't control that situation. Sometimes we'll get a renewal we weren't expecting or we'll get.

Yes, yes. Yeah, I know. I was like, how did I get here?

Mm-hmm.

more sales calls in a certain amount of time than we were expecting. both say yes. And so we just kind of have to figure it out. But yeah, tell me about it. kind of what were the things that you saw that like led to it and how was it a reflection of like what you kind of saw your strengths to be already.

Mm-hmm. I really had to sit down and look back. like, wow, who am I working with now and how did this relationship start or continue? And I realized that actually everyone I'm working with now is not new to me, meaning they are either renewing their coaching, like they've done their initial coaching container with me three or six months.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And they decided that they want to continue and deepen their authenticity work because they have new goals, new challenges coming up or more complex situations that they're walking into for the remainder of the year. they realized they want to have support for that time.

so numbers wise, you thought your book.number was what and then like, where are you now?

I'm still smirking because I think I mentioned to you, I didn't know the term booked out and what that was when I joined Reclamation last year. It was a very new term to me. ultimately, I realized I was like, this is the maximum number of people I can work with at any given time.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And

I realized there were actually two ways to answer that, right? That can, you can answer it from a financial goal standpoint, like what is your year's goal? but then I also realized is what is your energetic capacity, right?

So for me, this month of October, seven, because for me, a lot of my work is so deep. And overbooked in this month means eight.

Yeah.

And if people keep signing, pending folks I'm talking to who continue to sign, then I might actually get up to 10, which is a little, it's great and a little scary at the same time.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so it's like in the jump from eight to 10 ⁓

part of what we're talking about now is hiring

I wasn't going to ask you this question, but how is that sitting with you? I know that it's still very fresh because not everybody is stoked to go and hire. That's not necessarily the thing that they want to do. They want to...

Yeah.

Yeah, so tell me about that. How are you feeling about the concept of us being like, what does the VA look like? And it doesn't need to look like a $1,000 a month retainer.

⁓

I'm much more open to it than say like Betty from even last year or two years ago. Because that version of me, was weird because like both thoughts were happening, right? Like I just assumed I had to hire someone and I assumed it would have to be a minimum of thousand dollars a month. So therefore I didn't allow myself to think of it until I saved enough to sustain it. I also assumed that once I hire someone, I have to keep them on.

Yeah. ⁓

Yeah.

Yeah.

like forever, it's a permanent hire. As opposed to thinking of support in seasons, ⁓ because my business does move a bit, it goes up and down like most entrepreneurship does. ⁓ And like how do I bring in support when I need it?

Yeah, okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Which felt

like a huge pressure for me to like, I now have to make sure I have enough saved up in order to like not let this person down or like pull back my resources.

Yeah.

that makes sense. And you know what's interesting is that I think that even a couple of years ago, I would have even coached differently on this because I, I came from a world where I did my own hiring, in corporate Then I went into coaching and there's a lot of kind of advice around hiring other entrepreneurs and bringing them on for retainers. And what happens sometimes is we, and I did this, I over invested.

Mm-hmm.

folks I didn't need or that I needed in a certain season but sometimes you're investing in something and you're not using that person's talents and time in a retainer, the retainer may not actually work for you.

Mm-hmm.

it can make people feel like they're chained to their current success, like you have to keep it up or like the volume, you have to keep it up in order to like afford the help.

Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. I think that was a quiet, recurring thought in the back of my mind last year of like, it almost made me kind of worry about being booked out. It made me worry instantly about reaching a higher goal and a higher capacity myself. And I was like, that means now I'm like chained to a different set of expectations that I'm not sure I want to as someone who's worked really hard in the last four years to build a lot of freedom into my schedule and my days in my business.

Bye.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense.

what were some of the things that came to mind when you thought about like how booking out could like the downsides of it? And it could be things that you and I worked through

especially when you're a daughter of immigrants and you've had a lot of responsibility or you've been made to grow up really quickly or you've always been responsible for other people's things Tell me what, what were some of those things that you had to work through where you were just like, I don't know, I don't want this to happen.

Yeah. I mean, too much work. I don't dream of labor. That's the thing. Like I do not dream of labor. I love my clients and I love supporting them, but I also really, I'm very intentional about like, I need to be resource. I need to be present in order to do the deep work that we do. And the more clients you have inevitably my attention and my energy gets split as well. So that was a worry that like, maybe it'll affect how I coach. It'll affect how I show up.

Hmm? Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

definitely the, from the financial standpoint of like, I can't, I can't slip up, right? Like I have to keep selling. have to keep maintaining clients at a certain level so I can keep hiring the team that I have, or I would have had. ⁓ yeah, those were definitely two thoughts. I think there was another one that really came up.

Yeah.

of just like not being able to travel. Cause like as much as I fear zero dollar amounts, as much as I fear quiet periods of my business, because either that means something's not working or I need to quote unquote make it up later. It always is, it always gives me the space to become clear in my business or it allows me to do a project that I've been wanting to do for a really long time that I haven't been able to start on. So.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. ⁓

there's actually a lot more room for creation and reinvention during quieter months that I really now like I've kind of appreciated and embraced that a bit more. But because I learned to embrace my quiet periods, my business, now it made the busier periods feel not so attractive to me anymore, if that makes sense.

how did you become comfortable with the quiet seasons and use them not reactively, but to almost deepen the intentionality of like what you did in those seasons that you think allowed you to then call in the clients in the other seasons? Because I think that we either can spin out.

Mmm.

in those times, do a bunch of things we don't want to do, be reactive, or we can actually deepen and then kind of prepare.

Mm-hmm.

Yes. I think first I had to... Where was my mind at that time?

It's always, there's like a little bit of a lag realization, right? Because I think when the last time you had a conversation, was around the quarter where after disappointment was because a bunch of my clients did not renew all at the same time. So again, there was a little bit of a, prepared as best as I could, but there was still a lot out of my control. And the surprise came in that way and suddenly felt like a vacuum of time ended up in my lap. So I think part of it was just letting myself

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

feel a little scared for a little bit and then like coming to you, going to my therapist, talking to my friends, I'm like, you know what? Things don't actually look very good right now in my business. And I am feeling a little worried as opposed to going straight into problem solving. So I just kind of like let myself worry a little bit. And then the next thing I did was kind of go through

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

where my like kind of the history of my business and be like, ⁓ when other where were other times where I did experience dips and did I come out of those dips and what were what were the things I did then? So it was even like before the problem solving, there was a little bit of like, I just need to refresh myself on the evidence that I have the capability to get out of this. But I will be fine. I will be okay. This is a natural progression.

And it also helps that in my coaching, talk so much about seasons. I talk so much about rest as a strategy because most of the goals that my clients come into coaching for our life goals. They're not things you complete in a week. They're not things you complete even in a quarter sometimes. So to have that stamina to keep going, to keep growing, to keep evolving, you do need to incorporate rest into the process as well. So starting to realize that like, ⁓ I can actually

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

use this time. It's not wasted. Nothing's actually wasted in my business. Even the down periods are not wasted. ⁓ And then for me, was like, something I do always is go back to my complainants. What have I been bitching about? Every time I'm busy that I can't get to, I can't fold laundry, I can't go learn swimming, I can't box, can't whatever it is and actually treat myself and give myself the space to do that.

Yes. ⁓

Yeah!

Yes.

You know, it's almost like there was a, there's like almost a process here where you process the emotion first. Because I think that when we're in shame or scarcity, we tend to only look at lack versus like, no, what actually do I have then?

actions rooted from there, not from reactively trying to solve.

And sometimes I'll ask the question is there a problem to solve or a feeling to feel? And sometimes the answer is both.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But I always default to like, the feelings first, because if you try to problem solve before you feel the feelings, the feelings are gonna be like, hello.

Yeah. Yeah. And

the thing is too, we only know if there's a problem to solve once we feel the feeling.

the thing that I wanted to ask you about next is what are the things that you did in your marketing this year and how you think that those contributed to being booked out because...

Mm.

even in a business where there are a lot of referrals, marketing still matters. And then we also had to coach on thoughts on it and making it still feel like Betty.

It looked like working and building up my capacity and muscle and tolerance for posting on social media. So I posted on LinkedIn and Instagram before, but I felt like I had to reinvent, like I was writing from scratch every single time. that like literally one post would take like five to six hours. And I was like, this is not sustainable. This cannot be how it's done. So that was like,

Mmm.

Wow.

years ago how I approached my marketing. So it made sense that I would like post for a month, disappear from the world for two months, and then maybe try to like crawl back and feel shameful about it, feel behind about it at the same time. So I think last year and this year continued this practice of like, you know what, I have like essays in my old posts. Like my old posts probably will be the equivalent of like 16 thoughts now.

Wow.

makes sense.

Yeah.

Okay.

and how do I actually simplify my message so that when people read it, I'm not like hosing them down. They get like a little bite of information. Like for me, it was important for me to express the full context of it, but I realized that it wasn't helpful for someone who's at the start of their journey, right? It's a little too much to take in and then that would actually cause them to shut down or to stop trying.

That makes sense.

really.

Mm-hmm.

So realizing

that I'm putting myself in the client's shoes and realizing that I didn't have to write from scratch every time, that I already had a lot of good content, but how do I repackage it in a way that's a lot more friendly and kind to someone who isn't inundated, has too much chaos going around them and therefore they only have this much mental capacity to take a piece of tip or advice in for that. So there was definitely one shift. That's one of the seed planting. like,

Mm-hmm.

dripping those little ideas and perspectives of like, this is how I teach authenticity. This is the kind of work that we do. And then I was really, yeah.

It was like breaking things down into bite-sized

pieces versus the, and I think that the essay form of marketing, I think just happens when you're like, you're a very deep thinker. All of us think very deeply about our work and we kind of want to include all context about everything that we're saying in the moment because we want to be thorough. But then it was the switch of imagining your content from the perspective of the person that you're speaking to and like, is this actually helpful for them to receive all of this? Could this actually be five different thoughts

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

that I post versus like one putting all of this context. So that makes sense. I was like switching from what you want to say and being thorough more to like my person and how are they experiencing this and how can I make this digestible and easier for them to understand?

Yeah.

the second big change that like was a dovetail off of that was just finding the right home for the right thoughts. Right. And what I mean by that, it's like, I think when I started to learn about marketing as a business owner, it was like, get your tagline, know your niche and post as much as you can because that's how you get visibility. And I hate all three advices still to this day. I've changed my approach.

Mmm.

Nah, I vehemently disagree

with posts as much as possible. I like vehemently disagree with posts. Some people will say that and I do get that there's like practice. I agree with practice, but not just posting for the sake of posting.

Yeah.

practice.

So posting for the sake of posting, posting more for the sake of doing more is not my jam.

Yeah, and then the tagline

and kind of boxing yourself into a tagline and then like the niche versus because the niche versus unmet need is also very, different part of reclamation to because I'm like a niche is just something you decide but unmet need is based in service.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes, and I love that approach

of it. Like what is that unmet need as opposed to like this is only one group of people I serve and I'm only allowed to serve this one group of people. Which goes back to how you described my take on authenticity earlier. I was like I'm someone of multitudes. My clients have multitudes. Asking us to distill ourselves into one sentence feels extremely binding and extremely claustrophobic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Especially

we don't have anywhere else to put that so that's what I mean by like right home for the right thought ⁓ This year I started newsletter which I had a lot of resistance of even from January I was like, I don't even read my emails who's gonna read my emails at this point so We had to challenge our lives

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

think we had to challenge that too. because

you were doing Instagram and LinkedIn when you first started Reclamation, I believe, right? And those are the main places. But then email, you just weren't really like marketing and email. Were you sending any emails at the time or was it just it? OK, OK. I thought so because it was like that. OK, so the right home. So then how are you using those?

Ciao.

No.

Not at all.

platforms now that you weren't before. And yeah, just kind of tell us about that and how, because I think in that is also gonna tell us too, like all of those things do add up in terms of booking out. Just in a way that allows you to take what's already working and then magnify it. So like, how are you using those platforms now and what made you kind of use them differently?

Yeah, I had a lot of conversations in a lot of different spaces around like, how do you use newsletters? How often do you it, etc? What do you put in it? And of course, being an authenticity coach and being me, I had to like make it my way as well. So I've been told like post once a week, and I was like, okay, we're back to the same thing with the algorithms and like, we have to like, keep feeding the little monster. And I was like, I don't want to do it. I'm like, regardless of what it is, I just want it to be proud.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I just wanted to this muscle. I want to lift a five pound weight before I lift a 50 pound weight. So I really gave myself this like 10 % growth milestone to do it. So I started with once a month and I wrote about whatever I wanted, which was just, it was helpful to feel the spaciousness of a newsletter because a newsletter, I think most people assume it's okay if it's longer, but you know, Instagram and social, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Mm-hmm.

I like that. Yep.

Yes.

Yes.

captions when they get a little long, there will be people read it, but that's not the usual expectation. People on that platform consume a lot faster. So I was like, okay, if the people, the type of people I want to track are their slow movers, their marinators, their expert sufferers, they need that space and time to hear the details, to hear they want the nuance and they want that spaciousness. So meeting them where they are in terms of the newsletter was helpful in that sense.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And then I slowly worked my way up to like once a week to right now, last month was the first time I was doing, ⁓ two times a week. And the reason why I was able to grow that also was just going back and listening to my clients and what they told me of like, Betty, you know, like these coaching notes that you sent me, I reread them like three times this week and they kept me afloat. like, which part.

wow.

Right? Because if it's helpful to you, it's helpful to someone else and then being asking

yeah, yeah, Absolutely.

them if it's okay to share my newsletter also. And that way it could support someone else who might be in a similar situation. So being able to connect the dots more thoroughly or like more, more organically, more naturally of like, you know, I'm, this is happening in coaching conversations anyways. My clients are telling me something and I'm someone who listens to my clients. And then it's like, okay, I have a newsletter I need to write this week. That already gives me an idea of what to write there.

Um, so being able to share that wealth of knowledge and information, I think was really helpful because I would occasionally get, um, I would occasionally get responses from people from email. I'm like, Oh my God, how did you know this was happening to me this week? I'm like, I didn't, I'm not clairvoyant, but like, I'm glad it supported you through it because chances are.

Mm-hmm.

And it wasn't because it was coming

from coaching conversations. So you were just like, this might be of service to someone. you kind realizations or kind of like aha moments from coaching. And then you're like, okay, well, if it served this person, then it can serve the people in my email community. That is such a great example too. And I think it's like a reminder of like how the, how we don't always need to be creating brand new things

Yes,

you're taking the magic that's already happening and then you're making that more public, So I think we tell ourselves, especially when we're expert suffers, We will naturally look for creating more work.

I think daughters of immigrants in particular, children of immigrants will go to creating more work. We're like, I can't reuse this. can't, I can't say this. I have to say it a different way. I have to come up with a new idea. I have to do another thing or it's not good. And it's like, no, you probably already are sitting on things that you already like it already helped someone or you already created something that was helpful. So like, why wouldn't you use it again or say it in it, you know, in a new platform or something? So.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

That's a really, really good point. It's like taking all the magic that was already happening and being like, you don't need to add newsletter to your list in terms of a brand new thing. Like, yes, it's a new expression, but how could you feed that expression with things that are already happening? there. Rehoming, yeah. Rehoming, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And I love the term he's rehoming, right? It really did feel like rehoming as opposed to

before the way I was taught marketing was like get on another platform and another platform. It was like a numbers game. So I was writing for the platform for how it work as opposed to here's what I know is already working. What's different ways I could rehome it so people can receive it as well.

Yes.

Yes.

that makes sense. You kind of answered one of my next questions, which was going to be like, what changes have you made to your marketing that supported what was already working? And I think one of the things that, or you kind of supported, you know, based on your own business. And one of the things that you said was my clients are deep thinkers. They want a place to consume from me that is deep thinking, which oftentimes is like long form content or content that's easy for them to go back to, which would be an email over an Instagram post. They have to go and like,

find it again, which doesn't mean don't post on Instagram. But I do think it's important to always ask ourselves whenever we come up with any marketing strategy, the strategy should always be based on who is your person and what do they need in order to feel safe and clear to, you know, either work with you or just get the support that they need. And someone who's working with you may need a little bit more time, they may need the depth, they may prefer to consume an email or a podcast episode or

Re-listen to something that you said or whatever versus like quick hooks like sort of things So I'm like that's where marketing is deeply personal and should be an expression of you always have to think about your person and like what do they need for the thing that you specifically help them with so I think that you introducing email and being like actually email is a good rehoming for the deeper thoughts versus watering down the deeper thoughts and ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Also your relationship with social media versus being like, have to post X number of times a week. You made it your goal. And part of what we coached on was like, what if the goal is just practicing it like as a muscle versus the less we can attach to it, the more easily you can just have the behavior and then you can figure out what to do with it versus like, I have to do X, Y, Like that just makes it very restrictive. So I feel like that's another thing I picked up on on what you shared.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And I always saw, rather than feel beholden to my Instagram, for example, I started to see it as my playground, my practice ground, right? So I know one thing that I want to do was to, one of my goals this year was like, how do I show the magic that happens in my coaching room?

more, right? So rehoming into newsletters as like quick tips that people can read at work is one way, but another one I get a lot from my clients is like, your voice notes are really helpful. Like I sometimes I'm on the go and I want to hear it, something actually just even talking to you, your voice calms me down already. So I was like, how do I literally bring that in? But for me, being on camera is still something that doesn't always feel

Yes.

Yeah.

I wouldn't say unsafe, but it's not the most, like my performance still comes out. So for me, I'm like, as an authenticity coach, it feels a little weird that I'm gonna perform on camera and tell you about authenticity. So it didn't feel aligned in that way. So I didn't go for that. But I also hear that like being able to see, being able to hear me talk about a point, sometimes it's actually even more helpful than reading what I wrote about it.

I'm

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah

⁓ because of the way I tell my stories also. So I used Instagram now as a practice ground. Like one of my, on my bingo cards is like, on camera 30 times, but I'm not going to be attached to how, just like get on it 30 times, practice it. One time it might be flipping through my journal to show you guys how I use it. One time it's me talking about a point. So just using it as a playground for myself.

Mm-hmm.

How did you actually, so what were some of the changes that allowed Instagram to be more of a playground versus it has to do and hold everything? And the reason that I asked this question, and this is for anybody listening who feels like they are on a social media platform and they're asking that social media platform to do all jobs, which is be discovered on this platform, nurture people on this platform and sell to people on that platform, which

at the beginning for simplicity sake, yes, we do that, but it also makes it really hard because the way that you interact on Instagram isn't the way people interact with email and it's not the way people interact with podcast or whatever. So it's like whatever's in your mix, giving it the job that you want it to have. And Instagram doesn't have to do all three jobs and it probably shouldn't in the long term. So we've talked about reducing your dependency on social media.

for doing all jobs, like what are some of the shifts that you've made in your marketing? Because you've also been doing like YouTube shorts and different things. What are some of the shifts you've made marketing wise to reduce like social media being all eggs in that basket?

I love that you say it that way because often times I say to myself and to my clients, I was like, you don't expect your romantic partner to wear all the hats for you, right? So like, let's not expect our social media to be every fucking thing for us as well. Yeah.

That's such a good...

Yes, that's such a good analogy of just like, yeah, that totally

makes sense. But I think we'll we will attach it and that's where we'll spin out. And it's kind of like you have this very different relationship with it, because it's like the way that you get discovered, the way that you nurture the way that you sell is very different content, not that you can't do it all. But yeah, we it becomes very attached. It's almost like you would feel super, super attached to your partner. If you had no friends, if you had no hobbies, if you had nothing else, you would be so triggered every time you'd be like, you're not meeting my needs.

you

Yeah.

I know, I'm so upset, why are you there for me? Which is I felt about my Instagram for a while. And I'll just say like now in hindsight, was like, it had to be everything for me initially, because I was a new business owner. And I just, it was also not realistic for me to suddenly explore a newsletter, YouTube, Pinterest, Instagram, LinkedIn, email all at the same time. So in the spirit of like, you know, practice one tool.

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

⁓ of course, yeah.

build your muscle around it, give yourself time to learn that. Like I always say to people who start a new job, give yourself at least six months, right? Same thing with learning new tools. Give yourself six months to like, before you see anything with it, before you feel comfortable and confident with it. ⁓ But since then, since building up the muscle there and like, I really think of, I guess my Instagram and my LinkedIn now is much more as like a FYI space.

Mm-hmm. That's a good point. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, hey, this new event's happening, or this new blog post is coming out, or this new thing is happening in my life, and I wanted to share it with you all. So it's much more of that like in the moment kind of sharing, which is what, you know, social media is designed for. The deeper, it felt good to have other platforms and other people and other places. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, to like invite people to

or repurpose because I know part of this was actively inviting people to your email list is sort of part of how you shift your relationship with Instagram or social media because you have to invite them to a party somewhere else. Essentially, it's like, let's keep this going over here. And your warmest people, especially at first, will be the first to hop on. And eventually people just got to they just have to hear it, you know, a lot to know, there's something going on there.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

and you then can have that other home, but it's like when you don't create that space and you don't actively invite people on a regular basis, then yes, of course, social media is the only place where people are hanging out until you ask them to go hang out somewhere else, basically. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And using

that party analogy, like social media is the initial invite. And then my events and my, LinkedIn and YouTube talks are where the deep conversation happens. That's the party. And then if you want to stay for the after party and you want to have more conversation, that's my newsletter. So barring that analogy, it's kind like, this is how you journey through the different spaces with me and like continue to like hang out and learn about my work as well.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

But without those different spaces, I just kept trying to cram all of it into LinkedIn and Instagram of like, I'm gonna do my selling here, I'm gonna do my nurturing here. And it just felt like I was asking too much from those platforms. And I was starting to box myself in in how I showed up there.

Yep. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

That makes sense. And I know what you said, and this is absolutely true. Anybody who's in the early stages of business, like I honestly think even like the first year, like you just want to do one platform well and make it feel like home before you branch out. And now your visibility. So I think about audience building and discover ability. Like where do brand new eyes find out about you? You're you do regularly. Well, it depends on the season, but you do like LinkedIn lives. And so that's always like collaborations with other people. And then from there, it's like you have Instagram.

Mm-hmm.

and LinkedIn, and then you have your email newsletter. And there's probably some others that you also have YouTube shorts that you've started to repurpose. So YouTube shorts is also like more discoverability. And so what else in terms of like discoverability, like where your brand is, because you also you've done workshops for orgs, but that's been more of like paid opportunities when you come in and like spoken. But that's one thing where I'm like, then once that feels OK.

Mmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

what does it look like to fold in intentional visibility, like being on podcasts or like putting yourself out there to speak, which is like, we fold those things in like one layer at a time.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, it's like baking a cake. You want to do it otherwise none of it gels together and they start breaking apart. I think the next folding I think for me is like being able to actually, I have my own LinkedIn talks where I invite other folks to come on, but I'm also reaching out to ask people like people who have shared values and shared perspectives. like,

Thanks

Yes. That's a good analogy.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Can I come onto your podcast and your platform and have a really deep conversation about this topic that the rest of the world doesn't talk about enough. Right. So having partnerships around that ⁓ and more collaboration, because for me, I'm like, I am a solopreneur and I need more companionship to do my work. Otherwise it gets a little lonely in this process. using those talks as a way to also build my community for myself while sharing that visibility, while

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

offering knowledge out to people who may or may not be ready for their coaching journey yet as well. Yeah, and my YouTube is in the process of like that's also like I folded in one layer, but I think each year maybe even the way I'm going to use YouTube next year will change. like right now it acts more as an archive. Like a lot of my talks are for LinkedIn, but not everyone has a LinkedIn login. So having it on YouTube is a little easier to access as well. And the shorts

Yep. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

can be searched because YouTube is a search engine. ⁓ Yeah.

And you've repurposed both. So it's like when

people think about being on YouTube, you have repurposed your LinkedIn lives, which is long form, onto YouTube because it's just easier to share and it's discoverable. And you've repurposed Reels into YouTube shorts, figured out how to kind of keyword optimize it since the way that things are discovered on YouTube is different. But YouTube gives people search results in Google. So if someone's searching for something and your talk or your live or your whatever was in response to that, it puts it in the path of discoverability.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So it's like, we again, don't need to recreate. We're just looking at what you've already created and how could we migrate it over into an SEO friendly platform, which is like what you've started to fold in, okay, just to recap, you booked out, it was a higher number than you thought. You thought it would be like seven and then you ended up with eight and possibly by early next week, 10.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

And in order to support that, there were kind of two ways that you could take, which was like, okay, I'm going to actually cap the number and make these folks wait for a while, or I can hire and continue to, take them all on, but then do business differently by having a person on your team. But also it was important to you to have somebody that you weren't locked into like a four figure month retainer. So it's like a big part of this is like booking out is also feeling safe to hold that number of clients because it wasn't just about

taking on as many clients as you could because you want your question of booking out was your capacity and what feels good.

When you think about your overall journey, like I would say maybe if you looked back at before reclamation, the first time since this is like round two to now, what are some of the things that

stick out in your mind as far as being something that helped you think differently or to create this version of your business now. What comes to mind when you think of those turning points that you feel helped you get here?

A lot of it was looking at things I said I can't, right? And interrogating why. I can't repeat myself. I can't count this as a sale. ⁓ So there were a lot of I can'ts along the way, that if I catch myself repeating it multiple times, and I'm pretty good at hearing patterns even in my own speech nowadays, but I my colleagues, where do you say I should?

you

Mmm.

⁓ yeah.

Yep.

I shouldn't, can't, like those obligatory words, like I need to. So if you catch yourself saying those things, just slow down a little bit and be like, where did I get that from? What is the actual thing that I'm trying to do with this or that I'm trying to tell myself with this? So one was like, I can't repeat myself, right? So back to talking about how do we rehome things, that felt like.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

⁓ I can't repeat myself. That's cheating or like that's not adding value and like, but I'm like, no, actually some lessons we need to hear again and again before we hear it. I know that's how it works for me. So it's going to work like that for a lot of people out there too. And realizing that it could be helpful. Repetition is good. Repetition is helpful I think another one is.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

how do I practice as opposed to have to perform right away?

yeah, practice versus perform. Yeah, and taking all of the,

like the job off of the list to be like, you're asking it to do all these things, but it's not going to do any of those things if you're asking it to do everything.

Yeah.

And I think the one we worked on this year a lot is what am I not counting? What am I not allowing to count? Right, so I remember talking to you about like Q1 being like, oh my God, it's my slowest year in business and all four years, like something must be wrong, something needs to be fixed kind of feeling. But at the same time, I remember sharing with you, like my body felt fine. It actually felt...

you

Yeah.

safe. It wasn't freaking out. And I was like, how can both be true? And I realized that's because I was only looking at sales as brand new people,

Mm-hmm.

because this year was me realizing that a renewal is a form of sale. Referrals are also sale just because they feel easy, just because I didn't have to work hella hard for it doesn't mean it doesn't count. Yeah, I just didn't realize it. Yeah, yeah.

It is.

And you did work hard in a different way for it, but it was in the relationship and then the marketing. The other thing too, is I think

we've also realized is that like referrals still need our marketing. It's just that we just, those, just like with anything else, ⁓ the only difference really is like somebody either just, let's say somebody discovered you from a speaking engagement. And we can kind of, it's almost like when someone discovers us through speaking engagement, we don't say that doesn't count, even though they still use our marketing to vet us before they reach out.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

But when it's a referral, I think we don't realize they also still vet you through your marketing. Like every single time, they're not going to just blindly be like, I'm just going to like reach out to this person because they actually have to go through your marketing to even get to your form to schedule the call. And so there's a lot of silent like referrals that don't turn into clients if we didn't have the messaging or if that person didn't align. And so I think it's like your marketing is still doing its job just in a different way to support what's already working as you are.

Mm-hmm.

putting your content on places that are, you you're doing LinkedIn lives. You're doing a lot of visibility strategies, but the visibility is building what's next while you're supporting what's already working through your marketing. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah. And because

this year was such a practice year of like just showing up, right? Like being on camera, showing up in the moment, being, using my voice and my face and not just hiding behind written texts as well. ⁓ Because that's still a new muscle for me and I want to give myself the permission to still be a student in that way. ⁓ Learning to count everything allowed me to like, realize I was like, ⁓ I

Yeah,

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

there was, I've always been the renewal person. Like even in, before I became a coach, like I was not the PM who sold a lot of new clients who was always in the biz dev space, but you give me a client and they will have the longest longevity with this company that any other person will have as well. like, ⁓ that has always been my strength. And because it felt, because it was quote, quote easy to do because it came naturally to me. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

I didn't count it and I had so many conversations with you in reclamation. was like, I have no sales money. was like, wait, but I'm okay. Because at the same time, when I look back on my Q1 of this year was actually my highest revenue.

Yeah. So if you, you had two different markers that would have told a very different story about the same circumstance. So it's interesting how you could have facts and then you can have narrative about those facts that are wildly different depending on the package that you expect it to come in but Q1 wound up being like your highest.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

revenue year, but it looked really different. So I think that's, that's such an important distinction.

Yeah, it's really different. Yeah.

But now You've been refining your messaging. You did refine your messaging on your website. You put more of yourself on your website. You are putting yourself more on platforms for visibility. But you're not doing that from a place of I have to because I don't have the clients. It's like, no, you're

you're booked out, you have this healthy business that the leads in the clients are coming in in this way. And I think that's actually the best place to be working on visibility and marketing, not from a place of like needing it to work right now. You know, because it all is still working and it's doing a job in a different way because guaranteed all of those folks still checked you out, still, you know, went on your website and all of those things. I think sometimes just because they don't tell us those things doesn't mean that like they didn't play a role.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It takes the pressure off.

Yes.

So,

but thank you so much for just sharing everything with us, just like your journey so I just appreciate you so much. Is there anything that...

you want to leave people with

I do want to say that like, reclamation has made a huge difference in terms of like, the permission I was able to give myself. I think I needed to be in a room where I could freak out and like, it was okay. Right? Like I could come and be like, I don't have an answer. Cause that was another practice area for me this year. It's like, how do I ask for support?

Mmm. Yum.

Yeah.

way sooner than that like burning moment because I'm also an expert sufferer when it feels like I'm really at the edge and that's when I that's the only time I allow myself to ask for support and like having like being discerning about where you go to for what and that you get to choose.

Hmm.

Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

That's a really good, thank you for just sharing that because I feel like I didn't, mean, the folks are going to hear this probably at the beginning of next week. And I still do have doors open and I think I like to.

As much as possible, like to show versus tell and so kind of show different stories that people can see themselves in. think especially because I serve Daughters of Immigrants and we already box ourselves in so much in terms of being like, it has to look a certain way. I have to be a certain person. Maybe anything else that you would say in terms of like, if there's someone who's like, is this the right space for me? Like, what can I expect? Is there anything else that you're just kind of like, what is the space like or what you...

have found that either like other people might not realize about it because it's a business mastermind. And I think people have certain expectations or ideas on what a business mastermind is supposed to be like.

Yeah

Yeah. This is a space that meets you where you are. Right? So if you're a new kid on the block on something like I am with newsletters, etc. It's great because it's accepting of it. We get to talk through the mindsets. I get to move at the pace. I'm not someone who will do anything unless I understand it. My authenticity is stubborn in that case. I need it to align before I take any sort of action.

Mm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. That makes sense.

⁓

Yeah.

but also it's a beautiful space of like, everyone's actually at a different part of their journey. So I think because of that and being able to witness everyone's ups and downs at different times was a very needed reminder on a regular basis of like, am looking where I'm at because we're all on our journey. Like just cause someone moves quickly and I'm, and I'm in my resistance right now.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

doesn't mean we're not going to show up at the same finish line later on. So I think we talked about in our space, like there's some fast movers in our space and there's ones like me who need a bit more marination before we take action. Like it can support both and you do a beautiful job of supporting both types of folks. And it's motivating too, right? Cause I think us, what I call, I say this with love, are the slow riders. I call us the slow riders.

That sense.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Zzzzz

we remind the fast riders that it's okay to take pause, it's okay to step away. Right? And then the fast ones, yeah. And the faster reminders of like, you can do it in way less time than you think you need for taking that as well.

That's true. Yeah. You guys balance each other out. Yeah.

then

because you see them like jumping in because I feel like I'll hear the people that are like, okay,

good. And then they come back and they're like, okay, I did this. And then it's they're like moving so fast. And so it's like, yeah, there's really both there's spaces for both to coexist in business of just like, iterating before you feel like you're ready versus like, it's okay for you to soak in like what it is that's happening and actually witness it and both are true.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And

I learned so much about like all the different moments I can ask for help, all the different ways I can ask for help. speaking of like daughters of immigrants and being limited, I was like, ⁓ I was typically the person who like until I knew what my question was clearly, I can't ask for help. And now I'm like, I have a question. I don't know what it is. Can we help me figure that out?

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

That

is, I want everyone to know that. Sometimes I'm like, if we haven't talked in a while, we just need to talk. There's going to be something in there. I'm either going to have a question for you or you're going to say something that you think is fact but is actually a thought. And I'm going to pause and I'm going to be like, I just want to point out that you had this and that's not, that isn't necessarily the, doesn't have to be universal or the full story. So I think even in like practicing, asking for help, knowing that daughters of immigrants aren't necessarily going to be the first to raise their hand to be like,

Hi, I need help because I don't know what the question is or I feel like I can't ask this because I asked about this two weeks ago. Like there's so much around that. So, I love this so much. Thank you so much, Betty. for being on and just sharing your story. I'm really excited to support you in this next chapter now of what does it look like for Betty to be resourced in a different way in, you know, supporting more clients and having.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

of yay on your team and just like there's always new chapters to go into. And this is like what I love so much about working with my clients long term is that I get to be with you on just these different parts and then like the identity that goes along with like, there's always a little bit of that. And so I'm excited for that with you. Thank you.

Yeah, for sure. Thank you for having me, Mariella.