This week on Cook Eat Run, Charlie Watson dives into the world of collagen with special guest Sian Seccombe. 

Sian, an ultra runner and sports nutrition enthusiast, brings her expertise to discuss the science, benefits, and misconceptions surrounding collagen supplementation, especially for female runners over 30.

Collagen Uncovered

Explore what collagen is and why it's a hot topic in the running community. Sian explains the role of collagen as a protein and its importance in connective tissues, particularly for those recovering from injuries or undergoing intense training.

Supplementation Insights

Charlie and Sian delve into the nuances of collagen supplements, discussing the difference between marine and bovine collagen, the importance of hydrolysed forms, and what to look for when choosing a supplement. They also tackle the question of whether runners should supplement and the potential benefits for injury prevention and recovery.

Real Food First

Sian highlights how a balanced diet can provide necessary proteins and amino acids. They discuss collagen-rich and collagen-boosting foods, and how vitamin C plays a crucial role in collagen synthesis.

Practical Tips for Runners

Learn about the best practices for incorporating collagen into your diet, whether through supplements or food. Sian shares tips on timing, dosage, and how to ensure your body gets the nutrients it needs to support your running goals.

Connect with Sian on Instagram @siansecc & Tiktok siansecc , and check out her podcast ‘The Fuelled Runner’. 

Thinking about adding collagen to your routine? Save 10% on Pillar Performance and SIS collagen at XMiles with code COOKEATRUN.

Got fuelling and nutrition questions? Episode topic suggestions? - find Charlie online @therunnerbeans / www.therunnerbeans.com 

Grab a copy of Charlie’s book ‘Cook Eat Run’ 

The Cook Eat Run Podcast is sponsored by XMiles - the One Stop Nutrition Shop - use discount code COOKEATRUN for 10% off this month’s featured products at Xmiles.co.uk 

This podcast is proudly produced by Decibelle Creative decibellecreative.com / @decibelle_creative

>> Charlie: Welcome to the Cook Eat Run podcast with X Miles, hosted

by me, Charlie Watson. I'm a runner, a mum, an

NHS dietitian, and author of the recipe

book for runners, Cook Eat Run. I'm also

a 16 times marathoner and love nothing more than sharing what

I've learned along the way through a lot of trial and

error. Cook Eat Run is the go to

podcast for running, nutrition training tips, marathon

debriefs, and, more. I'm here to answer all your questions

and fuel you with the knowledge you'll need to run faster,

further, and actually just to have more fun on the run.

So whether you're training for an ultra, want to improve your marathon

pb, or simply just get more out of your

running, you're in the right place.

Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Cook Eat

Run podcast with X Miles. Today I'm doing a bit

of a deep dive into the world of collagen with guest

Sian Seccombe As you'll hear, Sian is super passionate

about all things running, research and nutrition, boiling

down the literature so you can easily apply it to your training.

We're talking about the science, benefits and misconceptions

surrounding collagen supplementation for runners, especially

women over 30. Whether you're recovering from an

injury, training for a marathon, or just curious about how to

optimise your diet, this episode has something for everyone.

Sian's currently working towards a Masters in Sports

Nutrition and shares fun nutritional and running info on

TikTok and Instagram. Sian Sec. I'll

leave the link in the show notes. She's an ultra runner with pretty

speedy times on the roads and hosts her own podcast, the

Fuelled Runner.

So Sian, thank you so much for joining me this morning.

I am so excited to talk about this because I put a story up

on my Instagram about collagen

and runners and in specific, like specifically

women over, 30, because I'm a

runner over 30 myself and I was

inundated with questions and

I think that that supplements especially

are such a widely

discussed but not really kind of fully

understood topic. So I'm really excited to kind of deep

dive into collagen today. so thank you

so much for, for joining me and being willing to kind of go into this deep

dive with me. Firstly, can we start

talking first about kind of what collagen

actually is? What, what do we mean when we talk about

collagen?

>> Sian Seccombe: Yeah, it's such an interesting topic, isn't it? Like, especially when you're

saying like, supplements as A whole as a general,

it's such like a mysterious but like

specific and wide ranging, but like

nuanced and particular that actually it can feel so

overwhelming when someone's going, oh, you need to be taking xyz, oh,

you've hit this age and three days, so you need to have an extra bit of this

and that and that. So it's just like, yeah, spilling

it all down to like the basics of what it actually is and

where it's coming from. And I think especially collagen at the

minute is. It's really having its like

primary. It really is. Like

walk on your incline treadmill and take a collagen shot and ah, you're

dandy. Like, that doesn't quite work like that.

And I think that's the thing with collagen especially, like,

fundamentally, collagen is a

protein. So it's the most abundant

protein in your body. But

collagen is specifically made of

a certain number of amino acids. So all proteins

are made of amino acids, which just like the building blocks.

And when you're eating and taking in protein,

you can have things called complete and incomplete proteins.

So a complete protein would have that full

spectrum of Lego blocks, so all the amino acids your body

needs and it would go, right, okay, I need these colours

amino acids to build my collagen, or I need these

ones to do something else. And your body can make some of

those. So there's nine amino acids that your body

cannot make that it has to have

from your, like, you have to eat it in some

form. And collagen is made

of three essential acids.

So you have to take in those amino acids

for your body to be able to produce collagen.

So that's where the kind of thought process and

rationale of like specifically targeting

your collagen intake is coming from.

Because, like all your other different types of protein you've got

in your body, you can make those up. Like

there's so many amino acids go floating around that you're like, yeah,

cool, we can take these, our body can make them. But

collagen, you're like, no, you have to actually have given your

body those specific building blocks.

So when we're saying taking collagen,

it's. You're not like taking it in your mouth and then your

body's just like sticking it on your hair or your skin. Like, it doesn't,

doesn't have like that direct relationship. But the

idea behind taking supplements

is that you take it, it's digested, it's

broken down into Those amino acid

constituents, then your body has loads of

these free amino acids floating around and it's looking for

these essential ones to build collagen. And they're there

so it can go sweet. I, can grab these and easily,

without resistance, build up the proteins that collagen is

making. But collagen has so

many different roles in your body. So

the ones that we all know about, skin, nails,

hair, actually not

really, but you know, skating,

airtime. So it's actually that it's the hair

follicle, not your actual hair, that's related

to collagen. but there's literally no

science that taking collagen helps your hair.

>> Charlie: I think that's where some of the confusion comes from because for so long

we've been bombarded with take this supplement

to get your hair and skin and ah, nails more

like healthier. And actually that's what we see in

mainstream media. And there

isn't the evidence behind it, but hopefully, as we're going to discuss a little

bit later, there is a little bit of evidence behind taking it

for like endurance runners.

>> Sian Seccombe: Yeah. And that's the thing, like, there is actually some

amazing evidence and science behind collagen,

but it doesn't, it's not quite so like black and white

of like how it actually shows up to like, ah, a

woman in her 30s should take collagen because of blah, blah, blah.

It's more nuanced and it's more actually like your

body's overall processes, especially as a

runner or someone who's had surgery or an

injury or like something like that.

Because collagen is related to all of your

connective tissues especially. And that's also where there's evidence

to show that supplementing with collagen does

actually have a beneficial effect. So it's.

If you're overall healthy and you're eating a good

diet, you. You're probably getting everything you need.

You probably don't need it. Whereas then, like, if you

had an injury or you have got

ligament issues or you've had surgery, actually

that's when we go, okay, there is evidence and there is

protocols to follow where collagen supplementation can

actually, really, really is going to help. And we know

it's going to help. Rather than kind of you're

taking in all these extra amino acids that then your body's going

to go, well, actually I've got plenty of these because you're already trying

to hit all this protein in your diet you actually

eat. You're actually getting it elsewhere, like A protein

yoghurt that's got collagen in it, like

an egg. All these other, like, there's so many

different ways where you get collagen in your diet that you wouldn't

necessarily think, oh, yes, I'm having my lovely dose of collagen.

It's like, it does it. It's not this magical thing that

you can't get from elsewhere. And that's so the thing

of like, you really can get it in your food. So,

like, especially meat options.

So there's the kind of difference between

collagen boosting foods and collagen

rich foods. So a collagen rich food

would come from an animal source and would be something

where you're actually ingesting collagen that your

body then breaks down and sends off. So that would be

like milk, bone broth,

chicken, beef, shellfish and

fish, has a lot of collagen in it because of

like in food chain, that's one of like the most direct

sources of where those like amino acids are coming into the food chain. Is that

like a fish level? But then you also have like

collagen boosters. So things

like eggs or like,

nuts, soya, more like plant

based, would be like collagen boosters.

Because when we think about collagen, it doesn't

act on its own. And this is where the

whole like vitamin C, hyaluronic acid comes

into it, which I feel like is another thing that gets like

muddled up in this. Like, here, take a supplement. You're m. Like, oh

my God, it's got like 12 million things in it. What is it doing?

But when you're looking at collagen supplements,

actually vitamin C and hyaluronic acid

are the two things that we go. No, actually, like, if you're

trying to help yourself, like in terms of collagen

production, connective tissues, tendon

ligament health, bone health as well, which is a big one

for collagen. Vitamin C and

hyaluronic acid, we know, are, going to help

you, especially if you're ageing.

So that's kind of then where this, that's actually the

science behind where this whole, like, oh, ah, you're ageing, so you need

to take collagen comes from. Because

as you age, there's basically some

enzymes in your body that like to

break down collagen. So as you get older, that's

kind of why your skin goes. Yeah,

all the fun things.

>> Charlie: Yeah.

>> Sian Seccombe: Because these enzymes are getting a bit snappy. Happy. Mm m.

But vitamin C is actually something that can step

in and turn those enzymes off. So it's essentially an

inhibitor of those enzymes. So then if

you're taking your collagen with your vitamin C,

that's where you're.

>> Charlie: Getting a bit of a double whammy.

>> Sian Seccombe: Yeah, you're getting the double benefit of, okay, we're gonna,

we're gonna dial down this collagen breakdown

and we're gonna allow the collagen synthesis to

happen. And then, yeah, there's also like some evidence

around hyaluronic acid saying that actually it

helps with the collagen production. so yeah,

it's like a, it's another form of in your cell it's

basically getting involved in all the processes. It's all in like the cell

membranes and tissues. And it gets very sciencey and very

niche. But yeah, essentially that's

where when you see like the skin, things with like, oh, I've got vitamin

C and hyaluronic acid in me, plus me on your face. Like

that's where the idea is from. Right?

>> Charlie: Yeah, got it.

>> Sian Seccombe: Putting it on your skin, the evidence isn't

there that it's going to do anything but like

ingesting. If we're looking at kind of

the recovery, all those kind of things, that's where you're then getting

the extra benefit.

>> Charlie: Okay, so, so we've kind

of touched on the fact that there's not the evidence for it to

be helpful for kind of skin and

hair. But for

endurance runners, if we don't have an injury, if we are

eating a meat based or, you know, kind of a

flexitarian diet, is there evidence that

we over 30?

I'm, I'm not asking for anyone in particular, I mean

myself, but should we be supplementing? Could we

be supplementing? Is there any harm in supplementing?

>> Sian Seccombe: I'd say there's definitely no

harm in additional because essentially all you're doing is

having some extra protein. But if you're having collagen,

you're just having those tiny little bits of the

protein picture. So you'll not have, if you had

whey protein that's essentially got all the

building blocks of collagen in it. So

you're just like doubling up on those specific amino

acids. All that's going to

happen is if you've got too much is your body

then puts that your body can't store those amino acids

for later. So what it'll do is it'll either

turn them into energy and then store them as fat

or they'll be metabolised differently, they'll turn into something

else, like your body will do. There's so many

different pathways. Your body can send those down,

but it's not going to have, like, a negative effect.

There's no science that says supplementing with collagen is going to cause

a negative effect, but what you've got to do

is looking at your diet as like a

whole picture. So actually,

for somewhat one person, supplementing with collagen

might be way more useful than another, because the rest

of their diet doesn't have enough

protein, has no shellfish, has no chicken. They don't

have. They don't include leafy greens, they don't have

nuts. It's dependent on that, like,

bigger picture. So saying like,

okay, like, should you be having it every day? Should you

be. How much dose should you have? It's like, well, what else are you

eating? Is kind of the bigger question of

there is no, like, magical solution.

And also, when you're ingesting it, if there's something else your body wants to

do, those amino acids, it's going to do that first. It's going to

prioritise something else. Like, it's not going to go, you know what? I really need nice

nails. It's just not going to do that. Like, it

will. Especially as an endurance runner,

you are training at a level where you have got

constant turnover of tissue, so your

muscle protein breakdown and synthesis is

kind of constant. So you do a session, that muscle

protein breakdown is happening, but then

after that window of session, your muscle protein

synthesis is going back up, and that's when you're looking

to go, okay, so after I've trained, I want to

eat that bolus of protein because that's where I want those

amino acids in my body to make the most of the

fact that my muscle protein synthesis rate right now

has increased because I've put my body under

stress, I've broken the tissues down by training a bit.

And then that's how we then benefit from it.

And that's where the idea of, like, dosing with

collagen around training comes from.

So, so especially when it's like with

injury, like tendon ligament

injury, there's a lot of evidence now

that if you supplement with collagen 30

to 60 minutes before you then

exercise, after the

exercise, you will have an increased rate of collagen

synthesis and muscle protein synthesis. If

you've had that supplement of collagen before, than if you didn't have that

supplement of collagen. So it's basically if

you're then getting like an extra super boost

on the effect of your physio exercises if

you've, like, hurt, your Achilles tendon or

whatever. But as a

general runner, that additional,

like, there's actually not the huge difference

between just having protein after. Like,

it's all very nuanced and kind of like 1%.

Yeah. In terms of, like, how

much is this going to help? Like, there's loads of

protocols they've tried, they've tried. Like, so some people with,

they're looking at Achilles tendons, so people

doing three sets of calf raises throughout the day,

having collagen before and then seeing the

effect versus just doing it once a day and they're like, oh, there's a

little increase. But we've looked at a sample size

of 15 athletes. So,

like, a lot of the science

shows that it's a good idea and directionally

wise is saying, okay, we should actually think about applying

this. But when we get it down to

the black and white of yes or no,

it's very difficult. And it's actually

quite in line with the things people are saying a lot about protein

now. So there's the argument of protein

of spreading out throughout the day versus a

huge amount after a workout.

And actually the results and the science is so mixed. Like, you

have one camp saying this, one camp saying that, and

it's actually going, okay, we're not elite. We don't need the

1% here. We're looking for just like, actually, can we make

our bodies as happy as they can be? Can we give

them what they need? Yeah. Cool. The best

way to do that is actually just make sure we're having enough of

everything throughout the day and supporting our

body in that way, because it's not going to go, oh, your

collagen was 20 minutes late. So I'm not going to make you any new tendons.

Like, it's going to, it's going to look for it and it's going to have it there and

it's going to make, it's going to make do. Like, our bodies are super smart.

We kind of have to trust them a bit. But there

is the evidence.

>> Charlie: Like, so, okay,

as someone, who has trained for multiple

marathons, I often feel

quite sore. I don't know if you've seen the memes. That's like, what's the regular

amount of pain? And it's like zero. And I'm like, you know,

I'm like, I did a strength session the other day and I have been

sore for days so this, like,

idea that if, you're kind of recovering from an

injury or having, you know, doing the physio, I feel

like, in a state of maybe slightly uncomfortable,

like, more often than not when I'm marathon training, like,

you've got the, like, long run recovery, the strength recovery. I'm like,

is this okay to say, you know, the speed workouts

and then you've got life, you've got work. You're not.

>> Sian Seccombe: Not.

>> Charlie: Everything is kind of perfect. I'm trying to crawl around on the

floor after a toddler. Is there,

for something like that, I would think, oh, well, I want

to boost my tissue repair. I want to protect my

joints. I make a noise every time I

bend down. Will collagen.

Stop that. Is there

a right. This is your injury, or if

we're having the micro

tears, because we're strength training and

we're running long and we are doing, a

lot of time on our feet. Is. Is there

a kind of this is when it would be beneficial, or is it

literally a case of person by person?

Look at your diet, look at

what your kind of history of injuries are and what you're going through at the

moment kind of thing? Don't know if that question made sense.

>> Sian Seccombe: But I totally get you, because it is. And it's like, it's

that whole thing, right, of, like, taking these really niche

science journals that are done on 12 cyclists in a, pod

in Switzerland, applying that to, like, general

life. We're like, how are we doing this? But actually, in

terms of kind of as an endurance runner, like, I'm the same. Like,

something always hurts. And everyone's like, is this. Is this meant to happen?

I'm like, no, it's fine. It's so fine. And we also got ourselves

that, right?

>> Charlie: Yeah. I got asked at work yesterday if I had a limp,

and I was like, no. I just went to the gym for the

first time in ages on Monday, and I

can't walk. But thank you for asking.

>> Sian Seccombe: It's like, oh, I did it the other day. I did, like, weird split squat

lunges I hadn't done before, and I literally couldn't sit on the toilet. I was

like, I haven't used a towel rail to get down. I'm like, oh,

God, it is. And it's like, actually, there is

never gonna be, like, a magical

answer that's gonna solve all that and make us, like,

superhumans that don't creak.

>> Charlie: Because I was hoping you were going to say,

take this. You're gonna live to be 100

and run a marathon. Age 95.

>> Sian Seccombe: I know absolute goals, right? But like I,

I'm someone who's really injury prone and like my ligaments

are all over the place. Like I'm hypermobile, I have

ligaments stretching all over the place. So I constantly m take

collagen because you know what? If in doubt there's some

evidence out there that says it's going to help me, I'm going to take it because

there's no downside to me taking it.

And endurance runners need more

protein than average people. Because

we do have that constant cycle and because you have a really

high energy output, what you need to do

is ensure there's enough protein to protect your muscle

mass. Because there's a balance between

where there's kind of questions over energy

availability and it's pretty

hard to like consistently hit the

energy output you're taking to like match it with what

your input intake of food is. Especially like

marathon runners, it's quite difficult. So what you want to do

is your absolute best to try and maintain the strength

you've got. Because we all know like through your training blocks, like

you have like a few weeks where you're like, oh, I feel super strong. And then the

next you like can't lift up half the weight you were doing because you're like, your

long runs tripled. Yeah. What's going on?

>> Charlie: So kind of cumulative fatigue.

>> Sian Seccombe: Yeah. And it's like, okay, so at that point,

protein intake in your diet as a

whole, looking at that going, right, is my

protein source complete in terms of am I

getting everything I need? So if you're

eating meat and you're eating fish and

dairy, you'll find your diet's complete. If you're vegan

or vegetarian, you need to have a mate. You need to have a think about

like looking into like complete protein

sources, but then like the addition of

the collagen, it's not going to hurt,

like it's not going to harm. And all it's doing is

basically just like adding extra protein in those

specific flavours of amino acids that like build up

collagen. So that's going to support

extra, all those bits of your body, your connective

tissues, your joints, your bones that are so important

for insurance runners especially. Like, we don't

realise the impact endurance running has on your

bones. Like the amount, especially

now, like the amount of stress fractures and like bone stress

injuries that I'm seeing online and I've spoken to some

physios and stuff about it, like it's absolutely

exploding because especially in women,

because people don't realise, like, the impact

of, like, energy availability,

marathon training, bone

repair cycles, which need collagen

and need like protein support and need energy

like any carbs and that kind of

interplay of like, how are you going to support your muscles best to

recover so that then you can do your next training

session is going to have. Is having collagen going

to help? It's definitely not going to hurt. Like, it's

a. It's difficult, especially if you're new to

marathon training, to get it right the first time and that's

why so many people get injured. So if you're going right, I'm

really making a conscious effort to

get enough protein without

sacrificing carbs. And

actually, if having a collagen shot or

powder or something like that in your smoothie or in your

electrolyte drink or however you want to take it, it's going

to help you up your protein intake up

everything sweet, excellent. Like, it's. It's

only. It's not going to negatively do anything bad. And the fact

you're conscious and thinking about it is actually going to help even

more.

>> Charlie: If you want to try adding collagen to your routine. You can

save 10% off collagen repair from Pillar

Performance and SIS

collagen@xmiles.com with code

COOKEATRUN. That's code COOKEATRUN for 10%

off the collagen at, X mill.

So if people do want to take a collagen supplement, what

should they be looking for? What dosage is it in the.

Kind of recommended to help promote kind of

the recovery and especially injury kind of

healing, that kind of thing.

>> Sian Seccombe: Yeah. So if you're looking for just like a

general collagen supplement, there are two

types. So they're kind of like the marine collagen and

then there's like the bovine collagen. So if you're vegan or

veggie, you'd go for the marine one and then

ideally you'd go for the bovine one. Because

if you think about it in terms of like a food

chain, the marine collagen is like, from plants and

cows. That's like right at the bottom. And then the bovine

collagen, it's already like processed, it's already gone up one

layer. So, like, it's kind of already done some of the work for you.

It's more. It's a more direct source, than your

body having to like, do extra work to kind of digest it

and sort out and put it in the right filing cabinet,

like, but then there's also another step of

that of like you want hydrolyzed collagen because again,

it's just a bit broken down and your body, it can

absorb it easier and it's easier to digest and it's like.

So hydrolyzed collagen is ideally what

you're looking for and then you can either get it just like

pure, literally just a white powder, nothing

else in it. Lovely. Don't want gums, we don't want

stabilisers. Well, there might be stabilisers because that's like,

you know, shelf stable.

>> Charlie: But.

>> Sian Seccombe: Yeah, yeah, exactly. But you don't want like fillers

and.

>> Charlie: Yeah, I was going to ask about this. Like, what, what should

we be avoiding? What are the kind of red flags to see

on the back of the pack that we don't want to see in there?

>> Sian Seccombe: Ah, yeah, like, personally I always avoid like the

plague, alcohol, sugars. So anything ending in

ol, especially if you're an IBS girl, like I

am, oh, they're gonna send you absolutely

sideways and then you won't be doing your long run because you'll be

in the bushes. So there we go, let's avoid those.

but yeah, I think as well it's then thinking about like

we were talking about earlier about like the vitamin C. So when you're

taking your collagen supplement, you can either look for one which has

vitamin C in it. So like, you know, like the little sachet

ones, like they're also very expensive though.

Like I have a massive tub of just like the

hydrolyzed collagen powder that I just like chuck into

things. It's like 20 quid on Amazon, like or

wherever you want to get them from. Like they're, they're

a much easier source but you just then have to think about how you're

adding them into your diet. Yeah, but actually the most important thing is that you're

taking it right rather than it's all well and good having it, but if it's just

sitting in the cupboard, it's not, it's not helping. So

it's then kind of going, okay, am I taking it with a

source of vitamin C? So if I'm putting it my

smoothie. Is there an orange juice in there?

Is there ah, like something else with vitamin C?

Mango, pineapple, like anything really.

And then also like how you're taking it,

you can take it with anything. Like there is nothing

that's going to stop it being as Good as it would

be. So, like, I know lots of people put them in coffees now.

So, like, heating up, not going to be a problem.

It's fine. Like, it doesn't like,

null the properties of what it's trying to do.

Because we're not heating up to like

90 degrees here. We're just making it

warm to drink it. We're not denaturing the

proteins, we're not breaking down the amino acids. Like, if

you kind of think of it like when you cook a chicken breast,

the chicken breast is then not protein because you've cooked it

and that's going to be a lot hotter than if you've made a

coffee. So it's kind of like the boundary.

But it's absolutely fine having it.

>> Charlie: And there's no sort of caffeine inhibitor

with the collagen.

>> Sian Seccombe: Not that they've proven. Yeah, not

that there's actually enough robust evidence on,

caffeine in itself is a whole nother wild

world of like, ergogenic, sport aid and supplement.

Like, it's a wild world. but I just really

like coffee, so I drink the same.

But actually, you know, then, then someone goes, right, I'm going to prove

coffee is good for you. So they write, right, look how many antioxidants

and everything else is in there. And it's a wonder drug.

>> Charlie: It's delicious. I'm not going to give up that morning

coffee.

>> Sian Seccombe: No, that's the thing. That's the

thing. Like, actually, in the grand scheme of things,

if having it in your coffee is going to be the

way that you take it, cool, Absolutely

fine. Like, if remembering to have it is going to be

having it with your electrolytes when you have those, or you

stack it in with your creatine and everything else you're putting in your bottle,

like, the best thing to do is take it daily. If

you're going to be supplement with it, in terms

of like amounts for, like, daily

consumption. I would also

say a preface that just test it out on

a day that you are, like, at home or,

like, gonna see how your tummy reacts. Because some people

do have kind of like, interesting effects when

they take, like, pure collagen.

it's just kind of like an anecdotal. It's nothing to,

it's nothing to be scared of. It's just if you think about if you

ate like a massive steak and you hadn't had one for like two weeks,

your stomach would be like, oh, hello. What we got? What are we doing here? And

it's just that kind of like a similar thing of like, just. Just give your stomach

or like do a half dose the first time you've done it. Just to like, be

like giving you a heads up here. Stomach. This is what we're

dealing with now.

>> Charlie: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sian Seccombe: but it's quite. Because again, it's the, like

looking at the rest of your diet and

seeing how much protein am I getting from elsewhere.

Blah. I would just go with the

dosage that's on the packet of the particular collagen you're

using. But in terms of for

injury, they say the kind of

evidence is around 10 to 20 grammes,

30 to 60 minutes before the stress episode.

So before the exercises or the rehab

or whatever you're going to do. That's where

that's the dosage that they suggest will actually increase the

collagen synthesis rates the most for specific

tendon issues and tendon repair and

recovery. similar dosage is

suggested kind of with like surgery and wound repair.

Obviously you're not gonna then like do exercise after

that, but, like, actually those kind of dosages,

perhaps both ends of the day, is what

people are kind of looking at in terms of when they're doing the studies

to investigate this. Those. The ballparks

of how much they're looking at. So it's not huge amounts, but

it's also not small amounts. So

it's. Yeah, it's more in the realms of like, ah, my protein yoghurt

has 15 grammes. Like, that's more the kind of realms of

collagen we're looking at. It's not like a beta alanine, where

you've got like 2, 3 grammes. It's. It's 10 to

20 grammes.

>> Charlie: Yeah. Which I think in my experience is usually what they

suggest in the back of the pack. Mine certainly says two scoops

is 20 grammes. I usually just do one in my coffee.

and that's. I just find two is a

bit overwhelming in terms of then the flavour and the,

like, the texture change.

>> Sian Seccombe: Yeah, the texture's weird sometimes, isn't it?

>> Charlie: Like, yeah.

>> Sian Seccombe: It's also just trying ones and seeing which ones you like best

and, work for you best because you can get ones which are like, stacked

with like, you've got your vitamin C, you've got hyaluronic acids, you've got other

things in there. And especially if you're a kind of a woman in

your 30s, you're going. Right. There's actually a list of things I'm trying to hit

right now? Is there a. Is there a collagen

that might have all of these lovely things in there for me? So it's like

just making your life easier. Really.

>> Charlie: Love that. Yeah, we're all about trying to streamline things because,

yeah, like you say, there are so many supplements

that we like

Instagram, like media tells us that we

should be taking. And it's trying to philtre that down

and think what's actually the most

necessary for me? What are my goals, what am

I, what's the rest of my diet looking like?

What, you know, what actually is going to make a

difference and when should I be doing that and what should I be taking? Because

it's not. Supplementation is such an

uncontrolled, unregulated market

that it's. Yes, it's quite scary

what you could be taking.

>> Sian Seccombe: It's. It's the wild west.

Honestly, some of the stuff I see on Instagram and

TikTok, like, I mean, I've. I'm doing a

masters at the moment and literally we do

a module about the wild west of supplements because it's

so crazy of like, the stuff people say. And I

also think, like, there's quite a comparison

trap you get stuck in with Instagram and stuff of like, oh,

no, everyone else is taking collagen. I'm not taking collagen. I'm

falling behind. I'm failing as a woman and I'm going to end up wrinkly and grey

and in a corner on my own. Like, no, it's all fine.

Don't worry, guys. Like, just because everyone else is doing it

doesn't mean you need to do it. And actually your diet

could be way better than everyone else than the people that you're

worried you're, like, not doing as well as, or

like not doing the right thing as, like. Actually, to be honest, it's

probably a marketing campaign. Someone's trying to sell you something and it's just

about money. Whereas actually you can look at

your own diet and go, you know what, let's look at my

food first as a food

first approach. That's always going to be the best

way to give your body what it needs is

in the form that it actually came from first.

So the closer something looks to real

food, the happier your body's going to be

with it, really. Because then there's definitely no like alcohol, sugars

or weird things in there. So if you look

at your diet and you go, you know what? I actually eat a really

good amount of protein. You're going to be giving your body

what it needs for collagen. Could you supplement

if you would like to? Absolutely. Is it going to

hurt? No. Do you need

to? People have

not been supplementing with collagen for very many years and have all been

fine. So, like, there's no one

very. Like, you would probably have to have a medical issue to be

deficient in protein or deficient in collagen.

So it's actually just going, okay, am I

supporting my body in a whole picture? The best way

possible. You're doing all right. Like, don't. It's not.

If you forget to have your collagen one day, it's fine. It's not

the end of the world. Like, diets don't have to be perfect.

Bodies don't either. It's absolutely fine.

>> Charlie: So, okay, just to kind of sum up, we're saying a

lot of people just said in the question box, where do I

start? And so from what I'm kind of

gathering is that we start with food. We look

at the diet as a whole. Am I getting these sources

of collagen in my diet? Am

I going through a rehab, an injury, a

recovery process? Maybe,

then I want to start adding in some collagen. Or maybe I look at

my diet and I think, actually I'm vegetarian, I'm vegan, or

I don't eat a lot of meat or I don't know about anyone

else, but I feel like I eat more meat at the weekends

when I'm like, eating at home. Whereas, like the kind of pat lunches for

work or just like kind of, you know, quick

dinners that I'm having are, maybe

less. And especially breakfast. Like weekends I have eggs for

breakfast. Weekdays I have overnight

oats. So it's. Yeah, my week

maybe is balanced, but during the week

where I'm doing the most of my training maybe isn't so balanced. So just kind

of, for me, it's, that's why I kind of thought actually

this might be beneficial.

>> Sian Seccombe: And that's. So that's exactly like, that's such a good way of

thinking about it. Because if you think when

you're stacking your training, a lot of your training is

happening, then when you're going, okay, actually this is not

where I'm getting my most, like, optimal,

like protein sources. And your

body, like we've said earlier, it can't keep hold of

those proteins, so it can't. Hang on, go, you

know what? I'm going to use those in three days time when I know I'M going to

the gym. It's. No, it doesn't work like that. so it is

actually going okay if I've got a massive strength session today

or I'm doing a massive strength session tonight. I

know my dinner tonight needs to have a really good

protein source after the gym or am I going to have

a protein supplement of some form or can I have a

big bowl of Greek yoghurt and berries before I

go to bed that's then going to give me a big protein

boost that I'm going to go to sleep. All these recovery protein synthesis is going to

happen and I've hit protein. So Greek

yoghurt, berries, protein and vitamin C.

Lovely.

>> Charlie: That's perfect. That is my daily with a little bit of dark

chocolate. That's my like pre bed

most nights.

>> Sian Seccombe: Yeah, chocolate's antioxidants is fine.

>> Charlie: Perfect. Yeah.

>> Sian Seccombe: It's actually, it's a vegetable, it's a plant at this point it's fine.

>> Charlie: Just coffee and chocolate. Don't take it away from me. Tell me

it's an essential part of my diet.

>> Sian Seccombe: Yeah. And also like as a runner probably is

like the worst diet you can have is one that doesn't have enough energy.

So anyone who tells me I can't eat chocolate or coffee, I

absolutely see it. I'm not involved in

this.

>> Charlie: I feel like that is the perfect way to finish the especially

given that it's like January, people are

feeling like they kind of need to be doing all the things or

cutting everything out. The most important message. And

M again this is not really collagen related but I love that

that the worst diet is one that doesn't have enough energy.

So yeah, make sure you are fueling your

runs.

>> Sian Seccombe: Exactly. And if you're hitting your energy in

all likelihood you are having enough protein and enough

amino acids to give your body what it

needs to go through all the collagen synthesis process

and look after your tendons and muscles. So it is actually

going. If you then decide come January 1st, you know

what, I'm going to start training for London marathon. I'm going to restrict my

food. Oh, you are on a one way path to injury

and burnout. Like that is not. Oh, let's not

do that. It's not fun. It's not fun for anyone. Like

actually making sure your diet, you're looking at your diet

going, what's the most nutritious thing? Like

actually going, you know what, we're going to add things to our

diet, not take things away. So

okay, I know I want to think about my collagen. I'm going

to add in and make sure I'm having enough

protein and vitamin C. Those type of

ways of looking at your diet, like that shift almost

of like the mindset of doesn't have to come from

supplement. Like it is actually coming from food as well.

And just looking at your diet and going, you know, actually it's

not a magic wand having a collagen supplement. We

can do this through food. I might well be okay already.

And it is okay to go. Actually I'm going to, I'm going to pass

on the collagen supplement right now. Like I might add it in

later in my training in my marathon block because

actually that's when I'm starting to feel like I'm really feeling the

effects of training. I'm not recovering properly.

That's when you go, okay, I'm going to start looking at like

a, energy availability and then B, potentially

protein intake and protein kind of

completeness again. Yeah. Could collagen help

around your gym sessions? Maybe. Happy days.

>> Charlie: Great. And thank you so much. I'm going to leave a link to

some of the, collagen supplements that

we, we would recommend in terms of if

that is something you want to try that don't have the

artificial sweeteners that or the sugar

alcohols that, are available on

XMiles. This podcast is sponsored by xmiles. If you do want to

try it, there's be a little discount code in the show

notes. Thank

you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Cook Eat Run

podcast with X Miles. Hope you found it as interesting as

I did and please let me know if there are any other topics you want

covered. I'd love to be able to share more kind of

useful information, especially for women runners

and over 30, which I'm definitely in that

category. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen

to the show and leave a rating and review. It really helps. And

yeah, send me a DM on what m topics you want us to cover this

year.

Thank you so much for listening to Cook Run, the podcast

hosted by me, Charlie Watson, sponsored by X Miles.

They are your one stop nutrition shop.

Come and find me on social media thereunner. beans and

tell me what you're loving on the podcast. Send me all of your questions

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Lastly, please rate the Cook Run podcast.

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See you back here for another episode soon. In the meantime,

happy running and don't forget to fuel yourself.

Bye.