In this episode of The Hairy Chin Podcast, Katie Tarr joins me to discuss her journey with Multiple Sclerosis, an autoimmune disease disproportionately affecting women 4:1. Katie, an “MS Sister” and Healthy Home Educator, explains how autoimmune diseases can be triggered, the role of stress and emotional trauma in disease progression, and why gut health is crucial for managing conditions like MS. Katie shares her holistic healing methods, including stress management techniques like guided meditation, journaling, and understanding the gut-brain connection. She also highlights how improving vitamin D levels, addressing gut bacteria imbalances, and eliminating toxins from the home can lead to better health outcomes. Our conversation covers the benefits of gut testing to Katie's tips on Norwex products to reduce household toxins and create a safer home environment. Katie emphasizes the importance of listening to your body and practicing self-care.

IN THIS EPISODE: 

• [01:36] Statistics: Women account for 80% of autoimmune diagnoses. 
• [02:14] Katie explains MS, her symptoms and the fear of being diagnosed with an incurable disease 
• [10:22] The “perfect storm” of disease: toxins, genetics and stress 
• [12:41] Stress management techniques: guided meditation, binaural beats, journaling and feelings wheels.
• [20:56] The Epstein Barr virus and its role in autoimmune disease
• [22:34] The role of Vitamin D in MS, autoimmune conditions and breast cancer
• [25:12]] The gut-brain connection and how poor gut health can worsen autoimmune symptoms 
• [26:26] The benefits of gut testing to identify imbalances and improve overall well-being
• [31:44] The mechanical cleaning concept, Norwex microfibers and Katie’s Facebook Live workshops.
• [46:15] Investing in your health, gut testing options
• [47:42] Mind-body connection, creating space for disconnecting and sitting with uncomfortable feelings 
• [48:16] The importance of gratitude, being quiet and slowing down in life

PLUCK THIS! SEGMENT

• Katie is offering $10 Norwex coupons for new customers! Click link for applied discount: https://www.norwex.com/katietarr
• Katie’s Guide for “5 Steps to a Non-Toxic Home” here: https://view.flodesk.com/pages/625725ce88ee7df09474fd1c

TOP TAKEAWAYS:

• Autoimmune diseases, including MS, affect women disproportionately.
• Stress and emotional trauma can significantly impact autoimmune disease progression with self-care and managing stress crucial to symptom management.
• Vitamin D and gut health play essential roles in managing autoimmune conditions.
• Guided meditation and journaling help reduce stress.
• Gut testing can identify imbalances and improve overall wellness.
• Reducing toxins at home is vital for creating a healthier living environment.
• Listening to your body and practicing self-care improves long-term health.

RESOURCES

• Binaural Beats App (Beatfulness): https://apps.apple.com/us/app/beatfulness/id1120843229
• Top CBT Apps: https://www.choosingtherapy.com/best-cbt-apps/
• Feelings Wheel: https://www.spencerita.com/resource
• LifeWithKate on IG: https://www.instagram.com/life.withkate/
• Hack Your Health Series (Netflix): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31316096/

GUEST BIO: 

• Katie Tarr’s IG Page: https://www.instagram.com/katie.elissa.tarr/
• Katie Tarr’s Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/katiesgreenspace/

ABOUT THE HOST: Spencer Moore is a creative professional, creative wellness advocate, and host of The Hairy Chin Podcast. Originally from Raleigh, NC, Spencer has resided in Barcelona, Spain since 2016. Her warmth, humor and authenticity bring light to tough conversations about female wellness. Drawing from personal battles with chronic illness and early-stage breast cancer, she is committed to breaking taboos and empowering women in their health journeys. Spencer shares insights across various platforms, including her Podcast, YouTube channel, Instagram, Blog and website, all aimed at inspiring independent thinking and creative wellness.

Website: www.spencerita.com

Instagram: www.instagram.com/spencerita_

Blog: www.spencerita.com/blog

Welcome to the Hairy Chin Podcast. I'm Spencer Moore, your host, here to explore the good, the bad, the hairy and the fabulous of female health. Join us for eye-opening conversations, myth-busting insights, and relatable stories that celebrate the realities of womanhood. And don't miss our Pluck This! segment for tangible takeaways from each episode. Life takes a village, let's do this together.

Spencer Moore:

I'm so happy to introduce Katie Tarr today on this episode of our podcast. Katie, thank you so much for being here.

Katie Tarr:

You're welcome.

Spencer Moore:

Katie, you live in Wilmington, North Carolina, and you're there with your family. You worked as a Pediatric Physical Therapist and 7 years ago you shifted to a full time Norwex consultant. And you are a Healthy Home Educator. I'm really excited to get into Norwex a bit later.

You also call yourself an MS Sister and MS would be standing for Multiple Sclerosis. This is an illness that you were diagnosed with, an autoimmune disease. And we're going to hear all about your journey.

I'd like to start with some statistics about autoimmune disease in women. Because when I was researching some of this and reading about this, I was so shocked at the disproportionate ratios between men and women in autoimmune disease. So, the studies right now, the statistics say that between 24 and 50 million Americans have an autoimmune disease. It is a condition where the immune system attacks its own tissues. The female male ratios are incredibly lopsided, with about 80% being women. So that's about four out of five diagnosed with an autoimmune disease are women. And for Multiple Sclerosis, the ratios are 4 to 1. So, let's talk about your journey with MS. Maybe you can start with explaining to our audience what MS is and maybe a bit about your journey.

Katie Tarr:

Sure. So Multiple Sclerosis is a central nervous system, autoimmune disease. It's progressive. They say that it doesn't have a cure. Okay. So if you look at your nerves at, like, a cell phone cord, okay. And sometimes your cell phone cord, the little plastic part wears away and you get those exposed wires. That’s what happens with Multiple Sclerosis, is that our body breaks down the myelin by mistake, the myelin being the plastic covering, and it breaks it down. And so that your nerves are exposed and so it either blocks nervous system pathways or it alters the communication between nerves. And so you end up with varying symptoms. And so with Multiple Sclerosis they call it the ‘Snowflake Disease’ because there's no two people that are exactly alike.

For me, my symptoms were very, slow, developing. And I could probably explain most of them away by, you know, over the years until one day it was just, it was so obvious that there was something going on that, I had to go to the doctor.

Multiple Sclerosis is diagnosed by having an MRI of the brain. And so when you have an MRI of the brain, it will reveal what they call lesions. And that's where that nervous system tissue that myelin has been worn away on, on the outer brain.

Spencer Moore:

Right. Okay. And you say that there was one day where it was so obvious that you had to go to the doctor. Can you tell us about what that day looked like?

Katie Tarr:

Yeah. So, okay, let me go back a little bit because I had symptoms when I was in college when I was in my late 20s or mid 20s. And symptoms like numbness and tingling or when I would go for a walk, my right foot would drag and my right leg would hurt and I'd have to stop. A lot of brain fog, a lot of migraine headaches, all of that kind of went on throughout my 20s. Then I ran a marathon and it was for charity. It was the Chicago Marathon, and it was, I was not a runner. So I always tell people that it was not something that I really enjoyed. it was just something that I was doing for charity. And so it caused a massive amount of physical and mental stress to my body. And I truly think that that, along with some other elements that created a perfect storm, was really what caused my body to finally say, all right, like, this is this is it.

So, after the marathon, I just felt very dizzy, very sluggish. I felt almost like I had the worst hangover of my life, but I had not drank alcohol. I couldn't really get myself up off the couch. And at that time, I was working as a Pediatric PT, and I had two kids, two young children. I couldn't get up to play with them. So I went to the doctor, and I was also dropping a lot of things out of my right hand, and I couldn't, like I noticed that if I went to go write a note or write something, like when I was doing my notes for work, I couldn't do that without my hand kind of cramping and fatiguing.

So I went to the doctor and as a Physical Therapist, I thought, oh, I know exactly what this is like. I have something going on with my neck, it's a pinched nerve, it's causing headaches, it's causing right arm weakness. And thankfully, the general practitioner that I was seeing, she said, I would really like to do a brain MRI on you as well. And I thought, well, that's overkill! But, she did, and, they found the lesions. So that day that she called me and told me I had the lesions, it was terrifying.

When you are diagnosed with something like this, everybody that I talk to that has been diagnosed goes through the same thing. It's a lot of fear initially. And that's one thing that I wish that I could kind of take back all that stress and all that fear that I went through. And if somebody is listening who's just been diagnosed, I, I know where you're at, but, let's fast forward seven years, you know, since I've been diagnosed, and not that there's nothing to fear but the fear wasn't as warranted as as I had, you know, I gave it way too much, too much, too much fear. Yeah, I mean, I when I was diagnosed, I thought, I am going and I had doctors that told me within ten years you could be in a wheelchair. They really, really scare you. And I'm not saying that that's not true. That has happened to some people. But today with MS especially and with other autoimmune diseases, there are so many things that you can do to decrease the symptoms and decrease the progression of this disease. That he should have never told me that, you know. Right. And so I'm here. I am seven years later and I work out, I have a very normal life. Not other than having to be mindful every day, you know, about things. But, but a very, very normal life. So I just want anyone who's listening just to know that I know where you're at. But if there's so many great resources that I can point you to that will fill you with hope rather than fear.

Spencer Moore:

And you have a great Instagram channel where you share a lot of these resources. And so I of course have that in the Show Notes for the episode so people can find you. Because I think your Instagram account is really joyful. It's happy. You share memes and things that I really laugh at, and I think that they're really quite funny, to kind of bring some humor, and lighten the, the, the topic.

Katie Tarr:

Yes, I agree. Yeah,

Spencer Moore:

I was curious to ask if you had any other autoimmune diseases that you've been diagnosed with since your diagnosis.

Katie Tarr:

I have not, no. I guess maybe chronic fatigue would be one, but I've really learned in my journey. As you, if you follow me on Instagram, you probably know I'm, I'm more on the holistic side of healing. So I try not to identify so much with a diagnosis, and that is so powerful. I stopped saying I have MS, I started to say I was diagnosed with MS. And that makes a big difference to me because I don't I don't have anything, you know, I just, I had symptoms of MS. Or I was diagnosed, but I, I haven't had any other autoimmune diseases or autoimmune diseases don't run in my family.

I've been working with a holistic doctor and she has a program. And she explained to me she also has MS. She had a very severe case, lots of lesions on her spinal cord and in her brain, and she couldn't walk. She was told that she was going to be dead in ten years. It was so severe because the lesions were affecting her breathing. Long story short, she went through the whole holistic treatment and she came out and she has zero lesions and she has zero symptoms. And so I'm going through her program and, sorry, I lost my train of thought. That's I mean, effectively, no way. But, that's a symptom of MS. right there that I still, know, but what was your question that you asked me?

Spencer Moore:

I was asking you if you had any other autoimmune diseases.

Katie Tarr:

Yes. And so she was just telling me that the MS and along with other autoimmune diseases, they come up because of a perfect storm of usually like three different things. And I kind of asked her what her perfect storm was and, and she it was the same type of thing, environmental exposure to toxins of some sort, a predisposition genetically to, you know, whether it's something going on in your genes and then also trauma or emotional stress, those three things, that is really the perfect storm for all autoimmune diseases to set up and occur.

And Spencer, I think and this is just strictly a theory of mine, but I think that the reason why autoimmune diseases are so prevalent in women is because we take on so much more stress in our lives, and whether it's just our nature or, you know, that men just eat more easily, kind of brush things off, or they don't internalize things like we do. I think that that is a big reason, because we're all exposed to the same environmental triggers. Right? But it's that it's that, emotional and mental, kind of that trauma factor that I think is this secret sauce that will kind of set off that in motion.

Spencer Moore:

Yeah, it kind of is the tipping point. I had a physician years ago that talked about eggs in a basket and then eventually, if you pile too many eggs on, they just start to overflow and break open. I think that's very true. And you think about all of the things that we're putting in our baskets in our life. I love that you said that. You don't say that you have a because I think labeling can be really, confining to people, especially with health. It's just such a label culture. And we aren't anything, ee don't have anything, we just are. And when you have that mentality, I think it's very freeing. Tell me about the stress management techniques and kind of what you incorporate into your life to help you manage traumas and stress in your life.

Katie Tarr:

Yeah. So, I do a lot. I have a lot of different practices. But, when I started, one of the first things that I started was guided meditation. Actually, before guided meditation, I started with just putting on headphones and for try, 15 minutes a day or right as I was falling asleep, I would listen to what are called binaural beats. And it was just, it's just music. It's a frequency of sound that will help your nervous system just to regulate. And I started with that because I didn't really know what I was doing as far as meditation. I just hadn't dabbled in that at that time, seven years ago. And so it was one of the things that she, the person who was recommending it, just said, you don't have to do anything. You just have to sit with the headphones. I'm like, okay, well, I can do that. So I started that. I noticed that that really helped my anxiety levels to decrease. I really prioritize sleep now. I used to stay up late, especially with young kids. And a lot of Moms do that where they stay up late because it's the only quiet time they have. And that's how I used to justify that. But sleep is so, so important not only for your stress level the next day, but also your brain actually detoxes while you sleep. So when you're not getting enough sleep, you're not getting that, you know, that brain cleansing that you really need, which is why we wake up with brain fog when we don't get enough rest. So that and just doing what I think when I notice my anxiety levels or I start to feel down in the dumps, is when I know that I'm not making the best choices for myself so I won't lie to you so healing is a huge roller coaster. I'm not perfect. We just went on vacation. We ate things that I wouldn't normally eat. We drank alcohol. We just did things that in my normal everyday life I wouldn't do. And I can tell you this week I can feel that. And I can already feel the pull to get almost like a little bit of anxiety. Like I need to start making decisions that will lead me towards health. So, just making those small choices that just really lowers my anxiety and gives me a sense of control over, especially if I was to, Multiple Sclerosis and my symptoms of Covid.

And just focusing on journaling has been really great for me as well. And I know it sounds kind of silly, but just really, I don't know, like thought dumping, like when you're in that state of, my nervous system is just a wreck and I'm anxious and I feel like there's a million things to do sitting down and like, dumping all those feelings on paper and then picking out maybe 1 or 2 of, like, the most important ones that the thoughts that are the biggest, I guess, the most “naggy” I call it those, those thoughts and just kind of say like, why am I, why I'm, why am I thinking this? And how is that making me feel and really trying to sit and identify in your body? Like how do you feel when you say that thought or when you think that thought? Where do you feel it in your body and just helping that to kind of move and shift and just getting it on paper and really identifying it. Because sometimes I look at it and I'm like, it's not even true. Like it's not even when I really start to analyze it, it's not even true. Okay. Well, tell me, why is this not true? It's not true because of this, this and this. And I think that journaling has been and that's a little more of an advanced practice, to be honest. Like it's something that took me a long time to learn. But journaling is a huge, huge thing for me.

Spencer Moore:

There's some really great apps that do a type of therapy that's called Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and it's kind of similar to that. And these apps are really great because it's it's, they asked you to kind of give your thoughts what's causing the anxiety. And then they kind of break down, like you say, what's the meaning behind the thought? Why is it nagging like you say? And they can walk you through it. If you're not used to being able to break down your thoughts like that and they are really helpful.

Katie Tarr:

I think the hardest part too is identifying your emotion. That was where I found the hardest is like, I have this feeling like in my chest or my stomach, but like I couldn't identify it. And that was what those apps are really good at, like making suggestions and helping you to to understand, because I think that is that's so important for us to be able to identify a feeling.

Spencer Moore:

Of course I got it. I recently started looking at a Feelings Wheel. I’d never seen these, but it's just like 100 different feelings and they have all different colors and they're kind of fun. For me as an artist, they look like a color wheel. And I would look at it when I was feeling a certain way, and I would try to identify the feeling. And it was so interesting because it was almost like a process of elimination, or I'm just angry. And then I look at the chart, I'm like, but maybe I'm frustrated, or maybe I'm tired and it had all these different ones, and it really was helpful for me to kind of start identifying that, no, these feelings aren't just the kind of basic, sad, angry, overwhelmed. You know, something else? I liked it a lot.

Katie Tarr:

There's an Instagram account that I'd love to just tell you, tell your listeners about. It's. Yeah. Like, Kate, have you ever seen life? I think it sounds very familiar. Yeah. So she, she I, I subscribe to her program. It's a lot about nervous system regulation and, how, you know, she talks. She talks a lot about autoimmune disease. Or, you know, if someone's struggling with really anything and she'll say, you know, I know that your doctor will tell you you need all these supplements and you need this program, and you need this detox, and you need all this stuff. And I think she had an autoimmune disease. I forget which one. But she said the biggest thing that helped her in her healing was nervous system regulation and emotion. So I just think that it's just so important. It's probably the most important thing that we can do. But her Instagram will guide people through it. And, she's got a lot of free guides and a lot of free resources on her page. But she also has a paid community that you can be a part of. And it's just really great for anyone who's struggling with autoimmune.

Spencer Moore:

That's really, really great. Yeah. I think that when you have any sort of health diagnosis, it's so easy to get really stressed. You know, you can't control your health. You can't change it quickly, overnight. I mean, these diseases progress over a long period of time, and it takes a long period of time to find a balance and to heal. And so finding ways to manage your stress is so crucial because, like you said, going on vacation, it's like, you know, you break your diet, maybe you have more alcohol than normal and you need to live. You need to react and enjoy life.

Katie Tarr:

Yeah. And that's something that I've learned is like, I'm not going, you know, I'm normally I try to stay gluten free. And at least when I'm in, my doctor was like, it's okay. Like, if you break it, it doesn't mean that you've ruined yourself for six months. But other doctors have told me that, like, if you have one with gluten, you, you are, that's you're done for six months. It'll take six months to get that out of your system or blah, blah, blah. And that created so much stress for me that that was worse than the gluten exposure occurs. I think that, I mean, you're lucky to live in Spain where you can. Yeah, that's what she told me. She said, you know, just while you're in the USA, no gluten anywhere else. You can have it.

Spencer Moore:

Yeah, yeah, it's true that the past year I've seen so many people on social media platforms say, you know, oh, I have such sensitivity to gluten, but when I travel in Italy and eat all the pasta, I have no problem. So the food here is different. I have to say, when I go home and I see the produce in the grocery stores, it's like, very sad. You know, it's really interesting. One thing I wanted to ask you before we get into Norwex, did you, were you ever diagnosed with Estein Barr? Or did you get tested for that?

Katie Tarr:

I was, so I had when I was 15 years old, I had a really severe case of Epstein-Barr. I was home from school for two weeks. Yes, I have Epstein-Barr. I've also been had my blood tested, and I have a host of other, viruses and possible mold exposure. That also, yes, also played a big part in it as well. So right now, anyone who has had most of the population has had Epstein-Barr. I think it says now, from what I read, is that it's about 95% of the population that has been exposed to Epstein-Barr and now Epstein-Barr.

Spencer Moore:

For just to kind of explain, Epstein-Barr is is one of the most common viruses that people can catch. And it causes a disease called mononucleosis, which is also known as mono, which is called the kissing disease because it can be spread by saliva. It's very contagious. And, a lot of people have had mono or have the Epstein-Barr, but it also can be one of the eggs in the basket to autoimmune disease.

Katie Tarr:

Yes. And that's important to note that it can be one of the eggs in the basket, but it doesn't guarantee that you'll develop an autoimmune disease. It doesn't mean that you'll develop M.S. but yes, it is one of the elements of the perfect storm that, that can trigger disease.

Spencer Moore:

The other question that I wanted to ask was, do you have you had low vitamin D levels?

Katie Tarr:

Yes. And that's one of the reasons why we moved to North Carolina. Okay. There was a study done, where people living above the equator, their MS progressed more, more rapidly. Their state of disease was a little bit more severe than those living below the equator. So, you know, and that's one of the reasons because I know my vitamin D level has always been low, no matter what I do, even though even here, while I'm living here, it's still lower than I'd like it to be. So that is something that people with MS really struggle with. And, I think to the normative ranges that my, you know, my Western medicine doctor used to say, if it was, you know, above 30 or 40, it was normal. My it's interesting because my functional medicine doctor will say, oh, I want it more around 900. So there's that discrepancy. But yes, I definitely think that, vitamin D levels, if you can get them up, that is really, really important for especially the way you feel and the fatigue that you may feel. Yeah, we just moved down here just to be in the sun more and just to have the chance to be outside more months out of the year than when I was living in Chicago.

Spencer Moore:

Yeah. I think that vitamin D is one of those vitamins that people think, like, everybody's low in it. And so it's just normal, you know, when you come back low on a blood test and it really is starting to be correlated with a lot of diseases. For me, my oncologist, because of the early stage breast cancer, she wants my vitamin D between 80 and 100. Always. And so I'm always taking a supplement and I've had vitamin D low for years now. There's a correlation to breast cancer and low vitamin D levels. And I, I had read that there was some correlation with autoimmune and low vitamin D as well. So it's important and it's also important to know the quality of the supplements that you take. You know, vitamin D has to be taken at a certain time. It's fat soluble. It needs to be taken with food because it's fat soluble. And so it's important to be educated and to learn.

Katie Tarr:

I take it with K3, you know, you have to take it with something because like you said it, your body won't absorb it. So you have to make sure that you're taking it and your body's actually absorbing it.

Spencer Moore:

Right. The doctors here, with my mal-absorption of vitamin D and also of iron, started doing my studies on my stomach and my gut, to try and see if there is a reason that these findings weren't being absorbed in my stomach. Have you had any sort of stomach?

Katie Tarr:

Oh, testing!

Spencer Moore:

I figured

Katie Tarr:

For my entire life I've had it. But yes, that's a whole other podcast.

Spencer Moore:

I know, I know it is.

Katie Tarr:

Gut health is the like, I know I said nervous system regulation is the most important. Okay. So that's number one then. Number two! There's been so many studies that relate poor gut health to and I don't know I've seen the Netflix documentary the recent one about gut health has the names escaping me.

Spencer Moore:

But it has a purple like intestine. It's like, on the, on the cover.

Katie Tarr:

Right. And Netflix, it is such a well-done documentary. It is excellent. And it explains how people can be predisposed to certain diseases based on the gut bacteria that is present. If you have an imbalance or you have an overgrowth of a certain bacteria, or you have not enough bacteria, you could be depressed or you could have weight loss resistance, or you could. There's so many things and so I had a stool test that's interesting to do. And you send it in and, yeah, I did it through my functional med and it was amazing what we saw. But she said, well, there's no wonder you're having all this trouble because your gut test was a complete mess. So that is something I'm working on. I'm actually drinking my probiotic drink right now, and I use a lot of different supplements and probiotics.

Katie Tarr:

But the biggest thing is just having variety in your diet. So one of the things that she told me was like, how many colors can you have on your plate? And I count colors instead of counting everything else? And that was really just something easy that stuck with me. The biggest thing she said was just getting a lot of variety in your diet. We tend to eat the same things over and over, and so, and especially us here in the US, like we go to the grocery store once a week to plan for the week. And it's like, you know, I, I don't know about you, I'm assuming with you being living in Europe, that you go to the store more often and you go to the market and get fresh. That's like what I wish that I had access to.

Spencer Moore:

Yeah, it's interesting that, you know, my husband, I buy, you know, for at least a couple days, but we actually live above a grocery store, so it's really easy for us to just pop downstairs in and get whatever we need. But it's really sweet, though, to see these old señoras, these old ladies, and they're just slowly making it down the street with like a tiny bag of tomatoes. You know, they don't have a whole cart or a bag, you know, they go to get their tomatoes fresh that they're going to use for dinner that night. Yeah. And they move at a snail's pace down the street. So it's really, it's a whole culture here to kind of buy what you need in the short term. And I also think we were talking earlier about preservatives. The food here is a lot cleaner. It doesn't last as long. You know, if I go down and buy food for a week or two weeks, it goes bad. We can't eat it all. Right. Yeah.

Katie Tarr:

And I think that that's really great for gut health. I think that that is important. And, but yeah, that is a huge one. And so I would suggest that anybody and you don't really just want to blindly start a probiotic. And that's what I did when I very first started, I was like, but I never got better. And I'm like, well. And then I stopped taking the probiotic and it would be like, oh, that's a waste of money. I really think that your best bang for your buck is to get your gut tested. And then the where and and do it under the guidance of a professional who can help you to to get the certain strains of bacteria that you need to bring balance back to your gut. Yeah, huge, huge improvement in my digestion over the last year since I've really been attacking this. And, that just improved my quality of life so much.

Spencer Moore:

I also did the stool tests like you're talking about, which is a whole experience. It is quite interesting. It's, like, a science experiment, but not the fun kind!. But it came back and it told me a very specific type of probiotic strain that my body was completely lacking. It was like 2% out of 100. And so the practitioner told me, you need to get this Igg Colostrum specific type of probiotic. And that will help rebuild it. I would have never known that if I had not done this test. And I think that a lot of symptoms that people have, they equate to other reasons to other things and maybe not to the stomach, where so much of it starts in the stomach, you know, fatigue, muscle fatigue or brain fog or migraines, headaches, all of it is from the stomach. And it all is. And it all starts in the gut.

Katie Tarr:

The gut brain axis is so important for anyone who struggles with anxiety even with kids anxiety. Just fearfulness. It all can go back to the gut. And these have, my friends, is that, you know, my son is or my child is having anxiety or they're having or they're not able to sleep or whatever.

And I say, are they going to ask my first question always to anyone who's struggling with really anything, my first question is, are you going to the bathroom once or twice a day? And they're like once or twice a day? I'm like, yeah. And they're like, no, I don't. Okay, start there if that. If you're not going to the bathroom once or twice a day because that's the bottom of your funnel. So if you're doing all this other detox work, but you're not going to the bathroom once or twice a day, you're just clogging up the bucket again. Yeah, you've got to make that's like step number one.

Spencer Moore:

But let's talk about Norwex. I'm so excited to talk about Norwex. Yes, you are a Norwex consultant. And you're also a healthy home educator, which I love that title, I think it's fantastic. Tell me about why you worked for this company and tell us about it, please.

Katie Tarr:

And she she had all these rags and all this stuff on her counter and, and she said, I just said, well, how do you clean your house now? And she said, with these cloths she's like, I completely switched to mechanical cleaning. Well, that was like a completely foreign topic to me, so I didn't know what she was talking about. I'm like, okay, she's cleaning with water. She's now lost her mind. But right, right. She gifted me an enviro cloth, which is the norm, like flagship products. And she gifted it to me.

Do you have one? Awesome!

Spencer Moore:

I'm obsessed.

Katie Tarr:

You know, I love that. She said you can remove 99% of bacteria with this cloth. You can get stains, carpet, you can do anything. And I thought, okay, so I took it home and I started wiping things down. I think my husband thought I lost my mind because I was like, cool cleaning, like every little surface, like a light switch and like everything, everything was just. I was cleaning so easily, so quickly and better, doing a better job. My stainless steel fridge, like everything, I was like, this is amazing. And so I just fell in love with the products for like a good five years, I'll be honest. Like fell in love with the products. And then, when I fast forward and I got diagnosed and, and, a friend of mine was a consultant and she said, you know, you should really. She's like, you love these products. You're always telling people about them. She's like, you should join as a consultant. And I said, thank you. Like, that's correct. That is not my wheelhouse. I am not a salesman. I don't want anything to do with that, I said, but I will take the discount. So I kind I signed up and, so then I got diagnosed with M.S. and I was looking for a way to continue to make money, but I wanted to do it from home. I wanted to where I could prioritize my health, be home with my kids. I was so tired. I was going, I was really going through it at that time. So, anyway, I started to do it and it just I realized how much I love to educate people on this topic, and it tied into my passion for holistic health and detoxing and, just helping people, like, it's the company. It's our company slogan: help people live cleaner, safer, better. And that is just what I'm always striving to do myself. And I love to teach people the why behind it. So it just worked for me. And, I don't love the product because I sell it. I sell it because I love it and I love educating people about it.

So, seven years later, I lead a large team, and together, we all educate. Norwac is only in about 3 to 4% of homes right now in the US, where it's a company that, I think, we're in 20 different countries. So it's a global company started in Canada. But our mission is to try to educate people that there is a safer way to clean your homes that will not, that doesn't require, you know, all these chemicals to kill germs because that's also killing gut health. And it's, you know, all that chemical exposure. It's just one less thing that we need to worry about. And, honestly, it just works better than anything I've ever tried. So it's fantastic. And, and a lot of people think that Norwex is just a cleaning supply company, and that couldn't be further from the truth. It's more of a lifestyle company. So we have personal care products and all the things. And so, so yeah, that's why I love the company so much and I love that I couldn't live without the products.

Spencer Moore:

I came across it on Instagram years ago. And one of the things so for me, it all started with the microfiber and, and then once I so Norwex is this kind of flagship product, I guess you could say is our microfiber towels. And what I showed on the video here is just a little square. I'm a glasses wearer and I'm obsessed with it. I have in every purse. I have it in every drawer to clean my glasses. My husband uses it, and so then

Katie Tarr:

You need the optics gasket, the glasses.

Spencer Moore:

It's true. I do need the optics one, correct.The one thing that I think is really interesting about this microfiber, because I've gifted these microfibers to people, like, it's like, you know, give them a birthday present. And I kind of Tywyn on the top and they're like, oh, yeah, thanks. It's a microfiber. Thanks. And I'm like, no way. You have to understand, it's a really special microfiber. And what I've read, I think, on the Norwex website is that normal microfibers, they split the fiber six times to create the weave, but Norwex splits theirs 200 times. And so, so because of that, it grabs every single thing, and cleans. So while you can clean grease without, degreaser, you can just get the microfiber towel wet. And the other thing that really sold me is, this Baclock technology that Norwex has. Can you tell us a bit about the back technology?

Katie Tarr:

Yeah. So Baclock is, it's a patented micro silver. So it's different from nano silver. It doesn't leach out of the cloth. It's like, I explain it like, creamer and coffee. Okay. So it melted down, and it's just embedded in the fibers, just like creamer goes in the coffee. And that nano silver. What it does is it suffocates the bacteria cell. So when something can't respirate, it can't replicate. So if it can't breathe, it can't, you know, it can’t breed. And so it just kills the bacteria within the cloth. A lot of people confuse the back lock. And they think that that's what's cleaning the surface, because in our heads we still think that we need some external force, something to kill the germs. We are killing, no we're removing the germs. Okay? So it doesn't kill the germs. We're removing the germs from the surface, and then the Baclock takes care of the germs within the cloth so that when off goes from wet to dry, that's what activates the back lock. And it it just suffocates the cell, the bacteria. So it leaves you with, you know, your, your cloth that's not going to be moldy and mildewy and, and smelly, which is so great, especially for the cloths that I use in the kitchen. Yes. And bath towels. I hate stinky bath towels and stinky dishcloths. But the. You won't have that with Nora Rex as long as you're caring for them properly.

Spencer Moore:

What are some of your favorite products of Norwex? I'm sure you could use them all, but do you have any super favorites?

Katie Tarr:

The laundry detergent is something that we've used in our home for 13 years. I've never deviated from it, so the laundry detergent is something I use every day. The basic package is the enviro cloth and the window cloth. And so it's kind of your Burt and Ernie. I use that every single day all over my house. And the body cloth, the body and face cloths are fantastic. And I have a 12 year old, so I have some pre-teens in the house, and it's just such a simple thing for him to do. Just get this cloth wet and wash your face instead of like this, you know, 3 or 4 step skincare routine for him. So I love those. I, let's see, what are some of the other products, the optic scarf. Like I said, I have to have that because I have glasses and my cell phone's always smudgy. But some of the other things, like we have, the carpet stain or like we do have other products that are like a spray and we use. And so the mattress cleaner is a big one in our house because we have a lot of allergies to dust mites. And so, the mattress cleaner is something that I spray on my mattress every, you know, every other month or on our pet beds and stuff. And those little enzymes go in like little Pacman and they munch away those. That has made a huge difference for my son. He would never sleep through the night. And I realized that it's because he was allergic to dust mites. So once I started using the mattress spray on his bed, the fact that he could sleep through the night like that translated to, much improved life quality for me, because being. And he wasn't waking up stuffy and with a headache. So that was, that was awesome. So that's one of my favorite products.

Spencer Moore:

So, I wanted to talk about some of the upcoming projects that you have and some kind of things that are going on for you that you offer. You host monthly online workshops where people can learn about how eliminating toxins in the home can greatly reduce your overall toxic body burden. Can you tell me about these workshops that you're hosting?

Katie Tarr:

Yeah. So they're a private workshop, and I could do them mainly on Facebook. Sometimes, though, if someone doesn't have Facebook, we figure out another way. We. I'll hop on zoom or we've, I've done them just like a video recording that I can send them. But I do these workshops, and basically you gather, everybody gathers together and I just go live and I talk about why you need to eliminate toxins. I answer any questions anybody has. And then the coolest part is I demo the products. And that's really what's the most entertaining part of the whole thing. So I get out of blacklight and we have glow germ powder, and it's just kind of nerdy, but we, it just once I saw that demonstration to show the difference between cleaning with disinfecting wipes and cleaning with Norwex. It was like it all made so much sense to me where I was like, I could not go back to using the other thing and applying that chemical all over my home. So that was a huge thing. So I love to show that, but I think that eliminating toxins can be a very overwhelming thing for people. So I tried to really break it down and just say, okay, these are the first five products I would start with. I know you said you started with the microfiber. I suggest that everybody starts with the microfiber because it helps to understand that mechanical cleaning concept. And so once you understand that concept and you realize how many products that that little cloth can replace and eliminate, that's the goal, right? We're never going to be able to, to reduce all chemicals, like our toxic exposure completely. But the goal is to reduce it by as much as we can. And I think that that is the most important part of that is just by using as few products as you can. And so I just love to show the search, to show the basics. And I always say that Norwex microfiber is like the gateway drug. You're going to want everything that is, it'll be way too overwhelming to start there. So I just start with the first five products and the mop. I do have to show them up because the mop is fantastic. And, you can either join one of my workshops that I have scheduled, or we can do a private one with, like, you and your friends, and then you earn a bunch of our wax for free. Yeah, that's what I offer.

Spencer Moore:

It's amazing because I think the biggest thing is education and knowing that there are other options. You don't have to use what's sold in the grocery stores and you don't have to use all these chemicals. There are other ways that can get probably even better results.

Katie Tarr:

Yes. Very much, that’s the one thing about Norwex is that customer retention is so high because once somebody becomes a normal customer and they see and they really see these products, you're a customer for life, right? It's amazing. So like I just there is really no other there's no other option for me.

Spencer Moore:

Well, this is going to lead us into the final segment of the podcast, which is called Plug This. It's the closing segment where we offer tangible takeaways for our listeners. And you have a great, tangible takeaway today for our listeners. Do you want to tell them about that?

Katie Tarr:

Yeah. So I have a discount if anybody would like to, you know, try Norwex or give Norwex a try. I do have $10 off. And it's, it's just right from my website, so maybe you could post my website there. It's just normal.

Spencer Moore:

Absolutely, in the Show Notes.

Katie Tarr:

And then also I also have a guide that I can share, it’s Five Steps to Eliminate Toxins from Your Home. It's just a free little guide to start thinking about eliminating toxins and, and. Yeah. And just, I think just starting to focus on your mental health and get your gut checked, I guess.

Spencer Moore:

And now the I'm, I'm curious on this because I've done mine in Europe, but in terms of doing the gut test that you did, do you need a prescription from a doctor to be able to do that? And do you mind sharing the company if you know that you did it with.

Katie Tarr:

Yes, I did Vibrant America like my functional medicine doctor sent it to me. The problem is, if you do it alone, then you have no one to analyze the results for you. And that's the biggest key, is you need someone to be able to. I mean, I couldn't look at all of that and know what all that was. So, but it was out of pocket. It was. And it's definitely an investment. But one of the best in my health that I've done.

Spencer Moore:

Yes, I agree, I agree. I think that the test here for the gut biome was about €500.

Katie Tarr:

Yeah, it was about $500 for us to do so, I don't know, but it was well worth it. And it's going to continue to give me a lot of information and a lot of results throughout my healing journey, too. So that and I don't think that I have to do it again. I mean, you could if you really, really wanted to, but I think you I, I don't plan on doing it again. I just, I already see the benefits. I see that you'll see your symptoms start to disappear when you start to regulate that. So that's enough for me. I don't need to know that a certain strain is in there. Right?

Spencer Moore:

Right. Well, I, I agree, I think that one time you get enough information and I think that's also kind of a lesson in realizing that the healing process isn't always going to be about tests and results. And oh, your gut biome is perfect. It really becomes intuitive when you start to feel how am I feeling today? How is my body responding? How am I able to connect to myself? You really have to let go of that control, of numbers and medical charts.

Katie Tarr:

That's why getting to know your body and how you're feeling is. But I and I think it's a simple thing, but just knowing that you have to give yourself some time to get quiet throughout your day. You think that's one of the things that we just don't ever do when we're on the go and run, run, run, run, run. How can you get, be in tune with your body or even know what you're feeling or where that feeling is coming from if you never get quiet? So that's definitely something that I'm prioritizing now that I've turned 40, I'm like, this is the year of me. So no, but definitely just giving yourself time to get quiet. And I get excited about that time. You know, I'm like, when I get to, I'm going to go and I'm going to just sit with the headphones on or I'm going to meditate for 15 minutes and, and you'll be amazed at like what comes up for you in your brain and you're like, oh, that's why I'm feeling like. And then you can address it. It's gone. And it doesn't have to be some big deal.

Spencer Moore:

Yeah. And I think people understand that maybe when you do get quiet it can be uncomfortable, but that it's okay for it to be uncomfortable because that's what your body, your body's anxiety is your body telling you something. These feelings, your body is communicating with you. And it's like you said, you let it go so it doesn't fester. But you really have to make that connection and sit with some uncomfortable things, but they lead to a really beautiful place.

Katie Tarr:

Yeah. And I think that that's why I'm so thankful. Like I'm thankful almost. I have this gratitude towards as where, if you will, because it's led me on this healing journey. Whereas if I would not have had the red flags and the numbness and the tingling and the dropping things, if that was my body saying, like, Katie, listen to us, like, listen. And if I didn't have that, then who knows? It could have progressed even further. It could have developed into some sort of cancer. It could have developed into all sorts of stuff. So I just sit with a little bit of gratitude in the fact that I got diagnosed because, some people don't get that diagnosis, you know, they don't get that answer, which that and it does provide a little bit of validation when you get that diagnosis that, okay, I'm not crazy. These are really happening to me. But just like you said, your body is a great communicator. And, yeah, I think that having, you know, just being able to listen to those symptoms and sometimes I have symptoms, you know, even like now I noticed that my left foot was tingling a lot. And I'm like, okay. Yeah. It's because last week I was putting things in my body I wouldn't normally do, and now I'm very stressed coming back from vacation and all the things. So I'm like, okay, tell myself I don't have to be stressed. I don't have to get all the laundry done today. I don't have to get everything in one day. Just take it as it goes. And that's really the best lesson I've learned from all of this is just slow down, get quiet and just let things roll is beautiful.

Spencer Moore:

I was going to ask you for a final thought, but that is just perfect. But just in case, is there anything else that you want to mention before we wrap up?

Katie Tarr:

No, I don't think so. And again, this was such a great conversation. Thank you. It was great. Thank you so much.

Spencer Moore:

I'm so appreciative of your time. Everything that you're sharing, it's it's so much that that you have knowledge of now and it's so amazing that you're putting out there and sharing it with people, because I really believe that life takes a village, and it's finding this kind of like minded community that you can learn from and lean on, and and that's exactly what you're doing. It's so nice.

Katie Tarr:

Yeah, yeah, I try to create that community for people and I really enjoy doing it.

Spencer Moore:

That's amazing. Well, thank you so much again. And, I will have all of this information. It's going to be a long Show Notes today. I will have a lot of information, all of the links and, and yeah, that's it. Thank you so much.

Thanks for joining us on The Hairy Chin Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please head over to www.spencerita.com to join our creative community. I'm Spencer Moore reminding you that knowledge isn't just powerful, it's empowering. When you know better, you do better. So stay strong, keep going, and I'll see you next time.