Kyle V. Robinson's compelling narrative is a testament to the transformative power of mentorship and self-discovery amidst adversity. Growing up in a challenging environment, Kyle faced the dual burdens of an abusive stepfather and a pervasive sense of inadequacy. However, a turning point emerged during his high school years when he met Mr. Brady, a teacher who recognized Kyle's intelligence and potential. This pivotal moment provided Kyle with the much-needed affirmation that he was worthy of success and happiness, a belief that had long eluded him. Mr. Brady's encouragement became a driving force, motivating Kyle to confront his struggles and embrace the possibility of a brighter future.

Takeaways:

• Experiencing turbulent childhood challenges can shape one's view of self-worth and potential.
• Facing challenges head-on, like Kyle's decision to represent himself in court, can empower individuals.
• Regularly checking in with our inner child can facilitate healing and self-acceptance.
• Finding supportive communities and healthy friendships can significantly improve one's life trajectory.

Kyle's journey is marked by significant challenges, including expulsion from high school and a tumultuous relationship with substance use. However, his decision to enter drug rehab was a pivotal moment that allowed him to step away from negative influences and focus on rebuilding his life. Returning to school for a sixth year, he encountered further obstacles, including a wrongful arrest, but these experiences only fueled his determination to prove himself. Notably, his self-representation in court became a defining moment, reinforcing his belief in his capabilities and setting the stage for his eventual success in college.

Ultimately, Kyle's story is one of resilience, growth, and the quest for self-acceptance. Through his book, "Wandering Spark," he seeks to share his journey with others facing similar challenges, emphasizing that healing and growth are achievable. His experiences serve as a powerful reminder that our past does not define us; rather, it is our response to those experiences and the support we find along the way that shape our futures. Kyle's narrative invites readers to reflect on their own journeys, encouraging them to embrace their unique paths and find the strength to overcome.

KYLE V ROBINSON is a graduate of Kent State University and Western Michigan University Cooley Law School. Kyle, currently, resides in Ohio with his dog Booker. You can find him running on trails, at kylevrobinson.com and @kylevrobinson on all social media.

Resources: To listen in on more conversations about pivotal moments that changed lives forever, subscribe to "The Life Shift" on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate the show 5 stars and leave a review! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

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Kyle: 00:00:34

When I went back to high school, they stuck me into something called in school suspension.

Kyle: 00:00:37

That's where you sit inside a room.

Kyle: 00:00:40

You can't talk, you can't leave.

Kyle: 00:00:42

They bring all your assignments to you.

Kyle: 00:00:44

You eat lunch in there.

Kyle: 00:00:45

You get, like, two bathroom breaks that are chaperoned by the teacher.

Kyle: 00:00:50

But as luck would have it, you can actually talk to the teacher that's in there.

Kyle: 00:00:53

And the teacher in there, his name was Mister Brady, and he was the first male role model, actually took me aside, and he goes, because he got to know me.

Kyle: 00:01:02

I was in his class for class in school suspension for my last senior year.

Kyle: 00:01:07

And he told me that, you know, you could do something with your life, that you're smart, and that this actually, like, blew my mind.

Kyle: 00:01:14

This is the first time that somebody took the time to tell me that, you know, you're.

Kyle: 00:01:18

You're worth something, that you can actually do something with your life.

Kyle: 00:01:21

And I was actually blown away because, like I said before, I thought all men were like, like the way my stepfather was.

Kyle: 00:01:27

So I was like, amazed that this was going on.

Kyle: 00:01:30

Like, I was like, oh, my God.

Kyle: 00:01:31

And like, something inside, he, like, planted a seed inside and was like, maybe I can do something with my life.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:01:36

Today's guest is Kyle v.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:01:37

Robinson.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:01:38

From a childhood really marked by challenges at home, poor role models, and just genuine struggle.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:01:45

Kyle's story is definitely one of trying to prove oneself to an undeserving person, but really, truly, it's a long road of personal growth.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:01:55

In this conversation, we explore those pivotal moments that really defined his path, focusing on the power of self awareness and truly the critical impact of finding positive role models, such as one teacher that he had in high school and someone he met a little later in life, Kyle opens up about the challenges that he faced, including navigating a turbulent home environment and the influence of a life changing teacher who believed in him.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:02:19

This episode is not just about the trials, but also about the triumphs as Kyle reflects on the lessons learned and the strength gained through those experiences.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:02:27

You hear me talk about this a lot in these episodes, about how some of the.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:02:31

These really challenging moments, when we have the opportunity and space to reflect upon them, we can see the silver linings, and we can see the things that we've learned because of those challenging moments.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:02:42

In my opinion, this conversation with Kyle is filled with hope and inspiration and really, that enduring spirit of growth.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:02:50

So without further ado, here is my conversation with Kyle v.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:02:54

Robinson.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:02:56

I'm Matt Gilhooly, and this is the life shift.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:03:00

Candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:03:16

Hello, my friends.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:03:17

Welcome to the Life Shift podcast.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:03:19

I am here with Kyle.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:03:20

Hello, Kyle.

Kyle: 00:03:21

Hello, Matt.

Kyle: 00:03:22

Thanks for having me.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:03:23

Well, thank you for wanting to be a part of the Life Shift podcast.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:03:26

I never really thought, maybe even five years ago, that I would have the opportunity to talk to so many people about these pivotal moments in their lives.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:03:34

That has really changed everything.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:03:36

So I'm just so honored that strangers essentially have come and wanted to share these conversations with me.

Kyle: 00:03:43

Sure.

Kyle: 00:03:43

I'm happy to be here and actually share my story and what changed me, how I got from where I was to where I am today.

Kyle: 00:03:49

And it's pretty interesting.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:03:51

You know, I think it's so valuable because the life shift podcast really stems from my own personal experience of feeling very alone in my circumstances.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:04:02

When I was a kid, my mom died in a motorcycle accident and everything at that moment.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:04:07

My parents were divorced, lived in different states, and everything changed in my life.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:04:12

But it was also a time period where people weren't really talking about grief or mental health or any of those things, and I felt very alone, like I was the only person that ever had a parent die, and I didn't know how to navigate that world.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:04:28

And so, really, when I started this, I was hoping that we could have these conversations where people out there listening might hear your story, might hear someone else's story, and feel a little less alone in their journey, and maybe feel a little hope or inspiration that they can move through that moment, become whatever they want to be or however that may look for them.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:04:45

So, you know, like you said, your story has these changes, and it's changed you from before and after, and it's just, I know there's someone out there listening that will hear your story and go, okay, I'm not the only one to go through something like this.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:04:59

So it's just such an honor.

Kyle: 00:05:01

Right.

Kyle: 00:05:01

And I think there's a couple life shifts that people go through, like some that they don't have control over, and then some maybe, that they do.

Kyle: 00:05:09

And I don't know if you really differentiate between those.

Kyle: 00:05:11

So I think some of my pivotal moments were some I didn't have any control over, and obviously it shifted my life.

Kyle: 00:05:16

And then as you get older, things happen.

Kyle: 00:05:18

You're like, oh, I do have control, and I could do something about it and move forward from there.

Kyle: 00:05:22

So that's kind of the experience I had with my life.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:05:26

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:05:26

And you know what?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:05:27

Going into this, I was a little bit naive, thinking, okay, yeah, one life shift changed everything.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:05:32

And it's like, no, as humans, we encounter a lot of things, whether, like you said, these external factors that kind of knock us off our.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:05:41

Knock us off our feet or throw us in the water or whatever that might be.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:05:45

And people have these internal fires, which I didn't really understand for a long period of my life because I was in this fight or flight mode for decades, because I didn't process that grief.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:05:57

And I didn't realize that I had as much power as I do to change my life until I finally got therapy and all those things that helped.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:06:05

Oh, okay.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:06:06

You can have your own fire, and you can have your own life shifts that you dictate.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:06:10

So that's great point.

Kyle: 00:06:12

I agree.

Kyle: 00:06:12

And I think a little bit of that, too.

Kyle: 00:06:14

Maybe subconsciously we're afraid to make those changes because you're scared of what's on the other side of that too, and come to certain realizations, for sure.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:06:23

And for me, it was like I was afraid of taking any chance, because if there was a chance that I was going to fail in my eight year old mind that I carried with me, I thought my dad would also abandon me.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:06:34

Like, I felt like the death of a parent feels like at that age, it feels like abandonment.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:06:39

And so it was always that fear cycle, like you described.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:06:41

It's like, what could happen?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:06:43

I don't know.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:06:44

It could be bad, and I don't want to do it, so I'm glad I did it, but sure.

Kyle: 00:06:48

So when I was younger, I didn't have a parent die, but something I did feel alone, because when I was four years old, my mother was recently divorced.

Kyle: 00:06:57

And so we were.

Kyle: 00:06:59

She was living as a single mom, me at four years old, and my older brother at six years old, and my younger sister at three years old.

Kyle: 00:07:05

And one day we're just playing at my house.

Kyle: 00:07:07

I'm upstairs playing around, and I hear the doorbell ring.

Kyle: 00:07:10

And this is something that normally doesn't happen in our house.

Kyle: 00:07:12

And I got really excited.

Kyle: 00:07:13

So I run downstairs to see what's going on.

Kyle: 00:07:16

And as soon as I get to the bottom of stairs, like, standing before me is a six foot three tall man with, like, a big brown bearden and bifocal glasses.

Kyle: 00:07:25

And I'm just stunned, like, scared, like, looking at this intimidating figure.

Kyle: 00:07:29

And my mom, who had answered the door, went to go get a glass of water or something like that.

Kyle: 00:07:33

So it's just me and this intimidating figure.

Kyle: 00:07:35

And I did what I thought any four year old would do.

Kyle: 00:07:38

I just greeted him with, like, a little punch in the leg.

Kyle: 00:07:41

And I giggled.

Kyle: 00:07:42

And what this man did was he made a fist, too, and he punched little Kyle right in the stomach.

Kyle: 00:07:47

And I keeled over, and I couldn't breathe.

Kyle: 00:07:50

I couldn't scream out, and tears were rushing down my face.

Kyle: 00:07:54

And so nobody heard.

Kyle: 00:07:55

So what this man did, didn't try to comfort me, didn't try to do anything.

Kyle: 00:07:58

He just walked around me into the kitchen, and I just scampered upstairs.

Kyle: 00:08:02

And that was my first meeting with the man who eventually come my stepfather, Ben, or my sister.

Kyle: 00:08:08

And I would later call him Triple B, big bad Ben.

Kyle: 00:08:11

And that's kind of how my life.

Kyle: 00:08:12

That's a big life shift that I didn't have control over.

Kyle: 00:08:15

That's how my life started at four years old going on, you know, until I was, like, out of high school.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:08:21

Wow.

Kyle: 00:08:22

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:08:22

That really can shape someone.

Kyle: 00:08:24

Sure.

Kyle: 00:08:25

And so, as I got older, you know, I don't want to get in the grizzly details, but things didn't get easier for me, and there's, you know, sticks and things like that.

Kyle: 00:08:33

But as I got into high school, I really started to rebel out.

Kyle: 00:08:36

And also, one of the big problems, too, is my mom.

Kyle: 00:08:39

You would think, well, didn't your mom do anything about this?

Kyle: 00:08:41

And, like, the simple answer or the easy answer was no, because she was so.

Kyle: 00:08:47

She thought it was very, very important for us to have a father in our lives, because my biological father was out of the picture, seemingly.

Kyle: 00:08:55

He lived in Florida, and, you know, he sent checks on birthdays and Christmas, things like that, but he really wasn't in our lives.

Kyle: 00:09:00

And so my mom was hell bent on getting a father for us, and she was excusing a lot of behavior, you know, thinking, like, boys will be boys and things like that.

Kyle: 00:09:08

And as I was getting older and as I was growing up, through adolescence teenager, I thought this was love.

Kyle: 00:09:14

I thought this is what a father was supposed to be.

Kyle: 00:09:17

Like, I'm dead serious, man.

Kyle: 00:09:18

I, like, I didn't.

Kyle: 00:09:20

I really thought that.

Kyle: 00:09:21

I thought all men.

Kyle: 00:09:22

I thought all men's dads were like this at home.

Kyle: 00:09:25

Like, I didn't know any better, so.

Kyle: 00:09:27

And my mom was telling me, like, this is love.

Kyle: 00:09:30

That, like, she even made us call him dad and, like, you know, tell him that we loved him, like, crazy stuff.

Kyle: 00:09:35

And, like.

Kyle: 00:09:36

And I thought this was completely normal growing up.

Kyle: 00:09:38

I really did.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:09:39

But it was open.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:09:40

Like, you guys.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:09:40

Everyone was kind of, like.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:09:42

Like, it was a.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:09:43

Everyone was aware that he was doing this to you guys well enough close family.

Kyle: 00:09:47

So, like, you know, me and my brother and my sister, my mom.

Kyle: 00:09:51

But, like, on the outside, my mom would pretend like that everything was okay, you know, everything's fine.

Kyle: 00:09:57

And as a little kid, I didn't know it was wrong.

Kyle: 00:09:58

Like, I thought it was normal.

Kyle: 00:10:00

Like, I thought, like, hey, this guy's just a jerk.

Kyle: 00:10:03

Get it?

Kyle: 00:10:04

I'm supposed to love him.

Kyle: 00:10:04

My mom tells me I'm supposed to love him.

Kyle: 00:10:06

So this is the way it is.

Kyle: 00:10:08

And then as I got older, like, in high school, I eventually started to rebel out a lot because I didn't know, because I thought I was the problem.

Kyle: 00:10:15

I thought, you know, it was my fault.

Kyle: 00:10:17

And so.

Kyle: 00:10:18

And I didn't know who to turn to or what to do.

Kyle: 00:10:20

So I got in fights all the time in high school.

Kyle: 00:10:23

I started drinking a lot in high school.

Kyle: 00:10:24

And eventually I got expelled from high school for, you know, for getting fights and not, like, skipping school.

Kyle: 00:10:31

And so I had to repeat what, my junior year over again and again.

Kyle: 00:10:35

My mom was, like, blaming me, and I couldn't fathom because all of my friends, my friends in high school, they were only my friends.

Kyle: 00:10:41

I kind of gravitated to people that were not a good influence because I didn't think I deserved better.

Kyle: 00:10:45

But I couldn't understand why they weren't getting kicked out of school.

Kyle: 00:10:48

I couldn't understand why they weren't getting expelled.

Kyle: 00:10:50

And it was because they didn't have the same home life I had, but I still couldn't realize it.

Kyle: 00:10:56

So I was just so upset at myself because I knew I was smart and I couldn't understand what was going on.

Kyle: 00:11:01

And so after I got expelled, I come back again for my fifth year, and I'm doing the same stuff, same things, getting advice, and I just want all this madness to stop.

Kyle: 00:11:10

And so what I decided to do in the middle of class one day, I got a test back that I failed.

Kyle: 00:11:15

And I was just so mad because I knew if I would have, like, applied myself, I would have been able to pass.

Kyle: 00:11:20

And I was like, I'm just so sick of this.

Kyle: 00:11:21

I need to do something about this.

Kyle: 00:11:23

So what I did was I left school in the middle of the day, and I went to go turn myself into drug rehab as a 17 year old.

Kyle: 00:11:30

And it wasn't like I was a drug addict.

Kyle: 00:11:33

Obviously, I had problems with alcohol.

Kyle: 00:11:35

I was just using it as an excuse, but I didn't know what else to do.

Kyle: 00:11:39

I thought I was the problem.

Kyle: 00:11:40

So how do I fix this problem?

Kyle: 00:11:42

And so it's actually not really funny, but when I got there as a 17 year old, you just can't say, hey, here I am.

Kyle: 00:11:47

I can turn myself in.

Kyle: 00:11:49

You need to be court ordered or you have to have a parent or guardian turn you in.

Kyle: 00:11:53

And so my mom, who actually worked in the building, it was a big hospital and they had a, you know, a drug rehab wing for juveniles.

Kyle: 00:11:58

And I knew my mom worked in there.

Kyle: 00:12:00

So they, she came down, she actually signed me in.

Kyle: 00:12:03

And she was really relieved that I was actually doing something.

Kyle: 00:12:06

Cause she wasn't about to admit that, you know, your stepfather was the problem or.

Kyle: 00:12:10

And I'm not blaming him or, I mean, he's the reasonable on why a lot of these things happen.

Kyle: 00:12:16

But we'll get to that part.

Kyle: 00:12:17

When I had that realization.

Kyle: 00:12:19

And so I'm in drug rehab and I actually felt safe at that moment.

Kyle: 00:12:23

Cause I'm away from him.

Kyle: 00:12:24

I'm away from my like bad influence friends.

Kyle: 00:12:27

And so.

Kyle: 00:12:28

But because I had to go to drug rehab, I had to spend.

Kyle: 00:12:31

I missed another year of high school.

Kyle: 00:12:33

So actually when I got out, I go back to high school now, Matt.

Kyle: 00:12:36

I'm in my 6th year of high school.

Kyle: 00:12:38

And this is one of the pivotal moments.

Kyle: 00:12:40

Two amazing things actually happened when I went back to high school.

Kyle: 00:12:45

When I went back to high school, they stuck me into something called in school suspension.

Kyle: 00:12:48

That's where you sit inside a room.

Kyle: 00:12:51

You can't talk, you can't leave.

Kyle: 00:12:53

They bring all your assignments to you.

Kyle: 00:12:54

You eat lunch in there.

Kyle: 00:12:55

You get like two bathroom breaks that are chaperones, you know, by the, by the teacher.

Kyle: 00:13:00

But as luck would have it, you can actually talk to the teacher that's in there.

Kyle: 00:13:04

And the teacher in there, his name was Mister Brady and he was the first male role model actually took me aside and he goes, you know, because he got to know me.

Kyle: 00:13:13

I was taught.

Kyle: 00:13:13

I was in like his class for class in school suspension for my last senior year.

Kyle: 00:13:18

And he told me that, you know, you could do something with your life, that you're smart and that this actually like blew my mind.

Kyle: 00:13:24

This is the first time that somebody took the time to tell me that, you know, you're worth something, that you can actually do something with your life.

Kyle: 00:13:32

And I was actually blown away because like I said before, I thought all men were like, like the way my stepfather was.

Kyle: 00:13:38

So I was like amazed that this was going on.

Kyle: 00:13:40

Like, I was like, oh my God.

Kyle: 00:13:42

And like something inside he like put his, you know, planted a seed inside.

Kyle: 00:13:45

He was like, maybe I can do something with my life.

Kyle: 00:13:48

Not that I really, you know, as a 17, eight year old I didn't really take action at that moment, but it was so nice to have somebody believe him.

Kyle: 00:13:54

Like, hey, somebody is in my corner.

Kyle: 00:13:56

Like, somebody's there.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:13:56

Is it hard for you to believe him?

Kyle: 00:13:58

I knew that there was a little something inside of me, but no one's ever told me about it, so maybe I was just trying to convince myself, but it was nice to have a confirmation.

Kyle: 00:14:06

Like, hey, you can do something with your life.

Kyle: 00:14:08

You can do something.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:14:09

So it's really interesting, though, because growing up and absorbing that for years upon years, I can see how someone might act out.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:14:21

But also all along, it sounds like you still held on that thread of humanity and that, like, you were worth more than something.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:14:30

Because I can't imagine someone that's acting out and going, like, really angry.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:14:35

I guess kind of getting that anger out in a different way would then also have that self awareness that you had to go, I need to, like, fix this, and I don't think I can do it myself, and then go check, like, go try to check yourself into something like that.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:14:49

So, like, that's a, that's a big thing that I don't think is that common.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:14:54

I think it's just like, people that are in your circumstance that you were in, I almost imagine a lot of the people that I've talked to.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:01

It's kind of like you just absorb that and then you just place the blame on everything else.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:05

Nothing's your fault.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:06

Where it sounds like you were taking some ownership of, like, I'm doing this, but I can't stop doing this.

Kyle: 00:15:13

Right.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:13

So that in itself is, like, super impressive.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:16

Which then led me to ask you, like, I mean, I guess it makes sense why you would believe your teacher, but I think a lot of people be like, what are you talking about?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:24

Like, no, I'm a mess.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:25

Like, nobody cares.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:26

My stepfather tells me every day that nobody cares.

Kyle: 00:15:29

And I didn't have anybody else to go to.

Kyle: 00:15:31

It's like, back then, I'm 46 now.

Kyle: 00:15:33

So those teachers weren't looking for things that were going on and nobody was saying, hey, are you okay?

Kyle: 00:15:38

You must be acting like this for some reason.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:41

Nobody was talking about anything back then either.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:44

This is what, like mid nineties, right, exactly.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:46

Or like early mid nineties.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:48

People weren't talking about, like, things going on at home.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:52

People weren't talking about mental health stuff where, I mean, we're very similar in age.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:56

So I.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:57

Same thing with me.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:58

I mean, I didn't.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:59

I got to my thirties when I realized all the things that were wrong with me.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:16:02

ou in this sense of, like, at: 1617

Kyle: 00:16:12

Right.

Kyle: 00:16:13

But also, so, I mean, not to get too out of my.

Kyle: 00:16:15

I always thought it was external.

Kyle: 00:16:16

Things needed to change, not really change inside myself.

Kyle: 00:16:19

And also I was blaming myself for it.

Kyle: 00:16:21

I still thought there was something wrong with me, so I had to fix me too.

Kyle: 00:16:24

And that's what I wanted to do.

Kyle: 00:16:26

Like, I didn't have the insight to, like, look inside.

Kyle: 00:16:28

Okay, Kyle, who do you want to be?

Kyle: 00:16:30

What do you want?

Kyle: 00:16:30

I just wanted to change something like.

Kyle: 00:16:32

And stop the madness.

Kyle: 00:16:32

But yeah, and what, I guess I'm trying to take credit away from that, what you're trying to give me.

Kyle: 00:16:37

But yeah, there was a little something inside me that wanted something more to my life and wanted something to change and wanted to be better.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:16:44

You could have been 100% destructive.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:16:47

You weren't 100% destructive.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:16:48

I mean, maybe you were a lot percent destructive, but there was something in you that was like, wait, you know, and maybe it was subconscious.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:16:55

Maybe it was something you picked up from your mother, you know, like whatever it may be from other parties that are in your life.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:17:01

But yeah, I think there's something to celebrate there just in itself because I think a lot of people that grew up in those circumstances will just ride that, unfortunately, because that's what they know and that's how it goes.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:17:13

And it's just like, well, that's my life.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:17:15

But you were, something was inching you and then, and I'm guessing that's probably what that teacher saw in you too.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:17:22

Like, there is potential in this kid.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:17:24

Like, he.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:17:25

Something's wrong, but there's also potential.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:17:27

So let me talk to him.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:17:28

Right.

Kyle: 00:17:29

And similar to you, I know how you had a teacher who changed your life and you reached out to her a while ago about, you know, recognizing you.

Kyle: 00:17:36

I actually reached out to him a while ago too, and thanked him and he said, oh, of course I remember you.

Kyle: 00:17:42

That's great.

Kyle: 00:17:42

You're doing well and things like that.

Kyle: 00:17:43

So it was nice to reconnect and let him know that he really changed my life a lot and he was just being him, that he wasn't trying like him.

Kyle: 00:17:51

That's what is crazy.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:17:52

Exactly.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:17:53

Teachers, I mean, they're with us for so much of our lives, you know, when we're in the school day and they see so much that maybe those of us that had this home life that might have been tough, they see us, you know, in this other space, trying to, trying to do other things.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:18:09

And same like you said, I reached out to my third grade teacher.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:18:13

So I was eight, you know, when she met me, and she was trying to, like, help heal this little kid who was just so very lost.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:18:22

And then, yeah, in my, I want to say I was in my thirties.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:18:25

I reached back out to her, and I, like, she knew who I was.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:18:29

She remembered things from the class.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:18:31

And you're like, how do you do that?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:18:33

You've just been teaching for, like, 30 something years.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:18:36

So, I mean, there was something that must have stuck out because he also remembered you, which is, it was really impactful.

Kyle: 00:18:41

It was really great.

Kyle: 00:18:42

And so after he planted that seed in me when I wasn't hanging out in school suspension, they eventually left me out.

Kyle: 00:18:48

by this time, I'm, you know,: 1819

Kyle: 00:18:55

Like, when I was a yde juvenile, you know, I got in trouble, arrested for fights and things like that.

Kyle: 00:19:00

But now that I'm an adult, if I get arrested, like, I'll be go to serious jail.

Kyle: 00:19:04

So.

Kyle: 00:19:04

And I was deathly terrified of that.

Kyle: 00:19:06

And so I'm trying to keep my head down, trying to be on the straight and narrow.

Kyle: 00:19:10

But one day, I guess I was making fun of the wrong person, just having a smart mouth, and I was messing with the wrong kid outside of school one day, and he wanted to fight me.

Kyle: 00:19:19

And I'm trying to tell him, no, no, no, I don't want to fight.

Kyle: 00:19:21

You know what I mean?

Kyle: 00:19:22

Hey, he could probably beat me up for sure and be, I didn't want to get in any trouble.

Kyle: 00:19:26

So I'm trying to get away from him, but before I can get away from him, there's a huge crowd around us, about 150 kids.

Kyle: 00:19:32

This kid is, like, trying to grab at me.

Kyle: 00:19:34

I'm just, like, running around in circle, and before I know it, I'm grabbed out of the circle of kids, and I'm arrested, and I'm arrested for, like, assault, disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace, and now I'm going to, like, real jail.

Kyle: 00:19:47

I'm in real trouble, even though I didn't even do anything wrong.

Kyle: 00:19:51

And so my mom won't give me a lawyer because she doesn't believe that I didn't do anything wrong from my past and anything like that.

Kyle: 00:19:56

And so what I decided to do is I was like, I know I didn't do anything wrong.

Kyle: 00:20:01

So what I'm going to do is, you know what I'm going to do.

Kyle: 00:20:03

I'm going to represent myself.

Kyle: 00:20:04

And so what happens is we're in, and I'm fast forwarding through a lot of things, but it's fine.

Kyle: 00:20:10

What happens is we're in court one day is just me, the prosecutor, the judge, and then the arresting officer, and court starts, and the prosecutor starts asking the arresting officer some questions, saying, do you see the person that was involved in this altercation?

Kyle: 00:20:25

And the officer points me out, and the prosecutor asks a few more questions, and then the judge goes, Kyle, do you want to ask, you know, the officer some questions?

Kyle: 00:20:33

And in my head, I'm very, very confident, but as I start speaking, my mouth starts, you know, start shaking, my voice is trembling, but eventually get enough nerve and I start asking him some questions, and I go, where were you when you first saw this allegeden incident?

Kyle: 00:20:45

He goes, oh, sitting in my police cruiser.

Kyle: 00:20:48

And I go, well, where was that relative to where you saw this incident?

Kyle: 00:20:51

He goes, oh, about 150 yards.

Kyle: 00:20:53

And I go, what did you see?

Kyle: 00:20:54

He goes, oh, I saw about 150 kids surrounding you guys.

Kyle: 00:20:58

And I go, so you're telling me from sitting your police cruiser from 150 yards away through like 150 kids, you saw me strike somebody else?

Kyle: 00:21:06

And he goes, well, no, I can't say that for sure.

Kyle: 00:21:09

And that was it.

Kyle: 00:21:10

The judge just found me not guilty, case was dismissed.

Kyle: 00:21:12

I was just so happy.

Kyle: 00:21:14

And what I remember at that point is that what Mister Brady told me before is like, if you believe in yourself and if you push forward, good things will happen.

Kyle: 00:21:21

And so that was a big life change for me, and I'll get to it.

Kyle: 00:21:25

Why?

Kyle: 00:21:26

But it was so, I was so happy that that happened to me and I was, because I wasn't in trouble.

Kyle: 00:21:32

And a, what happens when I start believing in myself, even at that young.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:21:36

Age, on something also that, like, nobody is taught to do, right?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:21:41

I mean, we're taught to stand up for ourselves and speak up for ourselves, but not when it, not when it relates to, like, the court and the law and all those things.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:21:48

I think so many of us would just like, shy away and then we'd have to figure out a public defender of some sort.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:21:54

And here you are, like, no, I'm gonna do it.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:21:57

Yeah, because I know I'm in the right.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:21:59

And you were.

Kyle: 00:22:00

I was.

Kyle: 00:22:01

And, but you had all these, you know, authority figures too, and telling me that I was wrong and like, you're, you know, you're in trouble.

Kyle: 00:22:09

So that happened.

Kyle: 00:22:10

And eventually I do graduate high school after six years with, like, a 1.046 GPA.

Kyle: 00:22:16

I think my class rank is, like, 346 out of, like, 349, something ridiculous.

Kyle: 00:22:21

And so, you know, college is not on the horizon.

Kyle: 00:22:24

Nothing's on the horizon whatsoever.

Kyle: 00:22:27

And so I don't know what I want to do with my life, but I want to do something.

Kyle: 00:22:31

But right out of high school, I get a job at, like, an oil change place.

Kyle: 00:22:35

And between me and you, Matt, and our listeners, I know nothing about cars.

Kyle: 00:22:39

And so I'm working at this oil change place, and one day I'm sitting underneath the car, like, changing some oil.

Kyle: 00:22:45

And I think now I want to do something more with my life.

Kyle: 00:22:49

But I wasn't sure what I can do.

Kyle: 00:22:51

I was like, can a person who spends six years in high school go to college?

Kyle: 00:22:56

And I was like.

Kyle: 00:22:56

I wasn't sure, but I wanted to find out.

Kyle: 00:22:59

And so eventually, I take the act to get into college because obviously I didn't take it in high school because I was too busy, you know, get in fights and doing drugs.

Kyle: 00:23:07

But I take the act and I get do well enough that I get into college.

Kyle: 00:23:12

And so this is my opportunity.

Kyle: 00:23:14

This is my chance.

Kyle: 00:23:15

And so I don't want to mess this up.

Kyle: 00:23:18

And so what I decided to do is I buckle down.

Kyle: 00:23:20

And my first semester of college, I get almost a 4.0.

Kyle: 00:23:24

And I'm so.

Kyle: 00:23:25

I was like, I knew it.

Kyle: 00:23:26

And I fucking.

Kyle: 00:23:27

I freaking knew it.

Kyle: 00:23:28

And so I'm very, very happy with myself.

Kyle: 00:23:31

And so my mom is pleased.

Kyle: 00:23:32

She put, like, the dean's list thing on the refrigerator back at home because I moved out right away because obviously, I need to get away from triple B.

Kyle: 00:23:39

But also, I'm doing a lot of this, too, to prove to triple B I'm not a loser.

Kyle: 00:23:42

You know what I mean?

Kyle: 00:23:43

And I show him that I made the dean's list because my mom still wants me to call him dad.

Kyle: 00:23:47

I still think he's my dad.

Kyle: 00:23:50

He's still in my life big time.

Kyle: 00:23:52

And so he doesn't care.

Kyle: 00:23:53

He doesn't care at all.

Kyle: 00:23:54

Not at all.

Kyle: 00:23:55

So did you feel like you had.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:23:56

To win his love, or did you want to?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:23:58

Or do you just wanted to show him that you weren't who he said you were?

Kyle: 00:24:02

I think it was more a little bit of both.

Kyle: 00:24:04

And as I got.

Kyle: 00:24:05

When I was younger, I think I wanted him like, I wanted his love.

Kyle: 00:24:07

But as I got older, I think I just wanted to show him, like, I'm not who you think I am.

Kyle: 00:24:12

And so I think it kind of shifted as.

Kyle: 00:24:14

As I got older.

Kyle: 00:24:16

And so eventually.

Kyle: 00:24:18

So after I made the dean's list, I decided to transfer schools.

Kyle: 00:24:20

I'm going to a different school, and I start partying up again because I meet a whole new group of friends.

Kyle: 00:24:26

And these weren't bad guys.

Kyle: 00:24:28

They just weren't good for me at that time because I kind of get right back into what I was doing in high school, just partying it up.

Kyle: 00:24:35

And the excuse I gave myself was like, oh, you're in college now.

Kyle: 00:24:38

You're okay.

Kyle: 00:24:39

You're doing okay.

Kyle: 00:24:40

And so it's okay to do this, it's okay to party and things like that, and obviously, like, everyone does it, right?

Kyle: 00:24:45

Exactly.

Kyle: 00:24:46

And so my grades start dropping.

Kyle: 00:24:47

Things aren't going so well.

Kyle: 00:24:49

I'm like, academic probation.

Kyle: 00:24:51

And then one day, all my friends decide, let's go drink and do some day drinking down at the bar.

Kyle: 00:24:55

So I go, okay.

Kyle: 00:24:57

Everyone piles in my jeep.

Kyle: 00:24:58

We drive down to the bars, and so we're doing something.

Kyle: 00:25:01

You know, we're drinking.

Kyle: 00:25:01

We're doing something called power hour.

Kyle: 00:25:03

You take a shot every time you hear some sort of song.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:25:05

Great idea.

Kyle: 00:25:06

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle: 00:25:07

Great idea.

Kyle: 00:25:07

So we're down there all day, and we decide, you know what?

Kyle: 00:25:11

Let's go home and change so we can go back out.

Kyle: 00:25:13

I go, okay, let's get my jeep.

Kyle: 00:25:15

Let's go.

Kyle: 00:25:16

So as we're driving home, we're taking a left onto my tree.

Kyle: 00:25:20

I hit the gas.

Kyle: 00:25:21

Boom.

Kyle: 00:25:22

Run into a telephone pole.

Kyle: 00:25:23

Total.

Kyle: 00:25:23

My jeep.

Kyle: 00:25:24

Put everybody in the hospital, and I get arrested for DUI.

Kyle: 00:25:27

Reckless drive aid.

Kyle: 00:25:28

And I'm thinking to myself, it's high school over again.

Kyle: 00:25:30

This is like, you're not doing.

Kyle: 00:25:32

Like, you're not doing great.

Kyle: 00:25:33

You're not trying to do what you want to do with your life.

Kyle: 00:25:37

And again, it's hard for me to rationalize.

Kyle: 00:25:40

Everybody does this.

Kyle: 00:25:42

I was like, no, everybody doesn't get a DUI.

Kyle: 00:25:43

Everybody doesn't put everyone in the car in the hospital.

Kyle: 00:25:46

Luckily, they were all, okay.

Kyle: 00:25:48

But I was like, this is not.

Kyle: 00:25:50

This is not good.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:25:51

Do you kind of go back to thinking, oh, triple b is right?

Kyle: 00:25:55

Oh, all the time.

Kyle: 00:25:56

That's in the back of my head.

Kyle: 00:25:57

Yep.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:25:57

Yeah, absolutely.

Kyle: 00:25:58

I was like, so it's kind of like a self fulfilling prophecy.

Kyle: 00:26:00

It's like it doesn't matter what I do.

Kyle: 00:26:02

You know what I mean?

Kyle: 00:26:02

It doesn't matter.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:26:03

See?

Kyle: 00:26:04

Yeah, exactly.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:26:04

I have one win, and then three more loses.

Kyle: 00:26:06

Exactly.

Kyle: 00:26:07

It's like you're exactly who you think?

Kyle: 00:26:09

Who you say I am?

Kyle: 00:26:10

Cause, like.

Kyle: 00:26:11

And I didn't say this before, like, when I was growing up in high school, he would always call me a loser, you know, all kinds of stuff.

Kyle: 00:26:16

And so it's like, yeah, it was kind of like, you know, maybe he's right.

Kyle: 00:26:19

But I did.

Kyle: 00:26:20

I am inside.

Kyle: 00:26:21

I'm fighting.

Kyle: 00:26:22

That was like, he's not right.

Kyle: 00:26:23

You know what I mean?

Kyle: 00:26:23

But these things would happen.

Kyle: 00:26:24

Like, maybe he is right.

Kyle: 00:26:26

You know?

Kyle: 00:26:26

Maybe he is right.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:26:27

What is the universe telling me?

Kyle: 00:26:28

Correct.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:26:28

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:26:29

And so I eventually, you know, I have to go to some, like, a DUI diversion program, and, like, it's dropped or I get less charge, and so I don't have to, you know, go to jail or anything like that.

Kyle: 00:26:39

And I eventually limp through college, and I do graduate with, like, a 2.02 GPA, but I have nothing on the horizon because I made no contacts.

Kyle: 00:26:47

I kind of just partied through college, but I have a college degree.

Kyle: 00:26:50

And again, triple B, he doesn't care.

Kyle: 00:26:52

You know what I mean?

Kyle: 00:26:53

Like, it doesn't.

Kyle: 00:26:54

It doesn't matter because it actually was at the time.

Kyle: 00:26:56

I make it.

Kyle: 00:26:57

I make it sound like it wasn't that big of achievement.

Kyle: 00:26:58

It actually was a big achievement that I got a college degree after six years of high school.

Kyle: 00:27:02

You know what I mean?

Kyle: 00:27:03

And so after what I've been through.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:27:05

Yeah, I mean, it's a big deal with all you're discussing.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:27:08

And like I said before, like, people that grew up in those circumstances might not have done that, you know?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:27:14

So there was still something in you that was lighting you up, making you go, Jeff.

Kyle: 00:27:18

And so I wanted to get.

Kyle: 00:27:19

So I knew, I started to realize it's about who I hung around with and who, you know, how I'm spending my time, dictating how my life's going.

Kyle: 00:27:31

And so after I graduated college, I decided to, like, run away.

Kyle: 00:27:35

That is, I had an opportunity to go live in San Francisco, and I took that.

Kyle: 00:27:39

So I drove out to San Francisco, and I worked out there.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:27:42

Nobody knows me there, right?

Kyle: 00:27:44

I worked out there, and it was kind of good because I was away from triple B.

Kyle: 00:27:47

I was away from, like, my old friends.

Kyle: 00:27:49

But my mom would call and she would, like, call on my birthday and, like, oh, your dad wants to talk to you.

Kyle: 00:27:56

And, like, so put him on.

Kyle: 00:27:57

And so she was just driving this home all the time.

Kyle: 00:27:59

All the time.

Kyle: 00:28:00

And I'm still at this point where I don't think there's anything wrong.

Kyle: 00:28:03

I think this.

Kyle: 00:28:04

I don't enjoy doing it.

Kyle: 00:28:05

But I'm still doing it, right?

Kyle: 00:28:07

But I'm out in San Francisco.

Kyle: 00:28:08

I'm kind of getting things together.

Kyle: 00:28:09

I'm getting my finances together.

Kyle: 00:28:11

I'm trying to get my life together, and I'm bartending.

Kyle: 00:28:14

Things are going great.

Kyle: 00:28:15

I was like, but you know what?

Kyle: 00:28:16

I want to do more with my life.

Kyle: 00:28:17

And I think about high school.

Kyle: 00:28:19

I think about, what can I do?

Kyle: 00:28:22

And I think about that incident where I represented myself.

Kyle: 00:28:25

I was like, could I actually do that in real life?

Kyle: 00:28:28

Could I be a lawyer in real life?

Kyle: 00:28:29

And I wasn't sure, but again, I wanted to find out.

Kyle: 00:28:32

So I took the entry exam to get into law school, the LSAT, and I did well enough to get into law school.

Kyle: 00:28:38

And now I'm moving out to Michigan, and I'm going to western Michigan law school.

Kyle: 00:28:43

And so now I know I do not want to mess this up again, just similar to what I did in my first semester in college.

Kyle: 00:28:50

I was like, okay, you have this opportunity, Kyle.

Kyle: 00:28:52

Let's not blow this opportunity.

Kyle: 00:28:53

So now you're in law school.

Kyle: 00:28:55

And so what I did was I found the two smartest kids that I could find and just stuck next to them all three years of high school.

Kyle: 00:29:01

And it's very easy to find these kids because in law school, they're the ones who raise their hand every time the professor asks a question or anything like that.

Kyle: 00:29:07

So I literally hung next to those kids all three years.

Kyle: 00:29:11

And I.

Kyle: 00:29:13

And there's no dramatics that happen in law school because I was a very good kid because you can't mess around in law school.

Kyle: 00:29:17

And in college, you kind of mess around and do well enough in law school.

Kyle: 00:29:20

If you're not studying and you're not going to class every day, you're going to get.

Kyle: 00:29:23

You're going to fail out.

Kyle: 00:29:25

And so I made the dean's list one semester, I got the certificate of merit one semester, that's getting the highest grade in one of your classes.

Kyle: 00:29:31

And I did well enough.

Kyle: 00:29:34

Better than I did in high school, obviously better than I did in college.

Kyle: 00:29:37

And I was going to graduate law school, and.

Kyle: 00:29:39

But in order to graduate law school, you have to take an internship.

Kyle: 00:29:43

And so I just applied to internships in New York City because that's where I always want to live.

Kyle: 00:29:47

So eventually, I got an internship in New York City, and I hated every second of it.

Kyle: 00:29:51

It was at this matrimonial law firm.

Kyle: 00:29:53

It was a nightmare.

Kyle: 00:29:54

I hated every second of it.

Kyle: 00:29:56

And I was like, I'm not sure if I want to be a practicing attorney.

Kyle: 00:29:59

And so that was in the back of my head, too.

Kyle: 00:30:02

Eventually, I did graduate law school, and again, triple b, I was trying to prove to him that I'm not worthless.

Kyle: 00:30:09

And at my high school or my law school graduation, this is what he told me, that he goes, I would have lost a bet.

Kyle: 00:30:15

That was his congratulations to me.

Kyle: 00:30:16

And I started to come to a realization that I could find the cure for cancer.

Kyle: 00:30:21

And this man, it didn't matter.

Kyle: 00:30:24

I started to get the mentality now.

Kyle: 00:30:26

You know what?

Kyle: 00:30:27

Forget him.

Kyle: 00:30:28

You know, forget him.

Kyle: 00:30:29

But again, I don't want to disappoint my mom either, because she thinks she wants me to, you know, calm down, things like that.

Kyle: 00:30:35

So, you know, I'll text.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:30:36

How old are you around this time?

Kyle: 00:30:38

So I graduated law school in: 2009

Kyle: 00:30:42

So 46 now.

Kyle: 00:30:43

So I'm around 30 years old, if that I'm doing the math correctly real quick.

Kyle: 00:30:47

So some, it's a trick, right?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:30:50

It's a math podcast somewhere around there.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:30:52

I get it, though.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:30:53

I mean, the reason I ask is because, like, 30, we, some of us that have these traumas early on, we are still so attached to the perception of those that are deemed parents have of us.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:31:07

And I can see why that would still matter, though.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:31:10

And, you know, I think some people are like, wow, well, you're 30, but when you have those early things, it sticks around and it probably still does.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:31:18

Even if you've worked through things, you still think of it and you're like.

Kyle: 00:31:21

Well, for sure, my mom is still married to this man to this day, which is insane.

Kyle: 00:31:28

And so, yeah, which is it?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:31:30

But she comes from a different generation, too.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:31:32

And that generation has, there's different things that we work through.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:31:36

And, like, even our generation, we're just now pushing through things that our generation is not, wasn't used to and we didn't grow up with because we're like, oh, there is something we can do with ourselves.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:31:48

There is something that can be better.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:31:50

We don't have to accept everything.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:31:51

And so, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt the story.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:31:53

I'm curious because I think that at 30, people that haven't experienced something like this, maybe they've had a more casual of lives moving forward.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:32:01

They're like, yeah, 30.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:32:02

I was already out here doing all these things and never even called my parents or never even talked to my parents, never even thought of them, you know, whatever it may be.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:32:09

And so I think it's interesting to me because I was very similar.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:32:12

I was into my thirties when I finally finished grieving my mom.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:32:17

You know?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:32:18

And so it was like everything before that was thinking, what is my dad gonna think?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:32:22

He didn't care.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:32:23

I mean, he cared, but he didn't care, right?

Kyle: 00:32:25

Yeah, he was.

Kyle: 00:32:25

Yeah, exactly.

Kyle: 00:32:26

Like, he didn't want that to dictate how you were acting, like, exactly.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:32:30

Yeah, exactly.

Kyle: 00:32:30

And I don't want you to think that I don't love my mom.

Kyle: 00:32:32

Of course I love my mom.

Kyle: 00:32:33

I'll get into this a little bit later, but, like.

Kyle: 00:32:36

And I'll get to this later, but I can't control her, how she feels or how she reacts.

Kyle: 00:32:39

I can just control how I feel and how I react and what I do and, like, moving forward.

Kyle: 00:32:44

And I'll bet you tell you how I got to that realization.

Kyle: 00:32:46

But again, now I'm just trying to make my mom happy.

Kyle: 00:32:48

I do not want to disappoint her.

Kyle: 00:32:50

And so I will keep talking to triple B.

Kyle: 00:32:53

I'll keep, you know, call him on Father's Day and things like that.

Kyle: 00:32:56

So it's.

Kyle: 00:32:57

It's crazy.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:32:58

So, checking the boxes.

Kyle: 00:33:01

So now I have to take the bar exam.

Kyle: 00:33:03

And in New York, you have to take something called the character and fitness exam.

Kyle: 00:33:08

And in order to get admitted to the bar.

Kyle: 00:33:11

So I took the bar exam.

Kyle: 00:33:12

I passed the bar.

Kyle: 00:33:13

But in order to get admitted, you have to take something called the character and fitness exam.

Kyle: 00:33:16

That's where they do this huge background check on you.

Kyle: 00:33:18

They take your fingerprints.

Kyle: 00:33:19

They do, like, this FBI background check, and they find anything wrong, you might not get admitted to the bar.

Kyle: 00:33:24

And I was actually terrified of this, all three years of law school, because I wasn't sure if I was going to actually be able to become a lawyer.

Kyle: 00:33:31

Because of your history.

Kyle: 00:33:32

Yeah, exactly.

Kyle: 00:33:33

So I rationalized to myself, you know what?

Kyle: 00:33:35

You'll just have a JD, Kyle.

Kyle: 00:33:36

You won't even try to take your bar.

Kyle: 00:33:38

And I wasn't even going to attempt to take the bar exam at all, but I was.

Kyle: 00:33:42

After I graduated law school, I was like, you know, you've come this far.

Kyle: 00:33:45

What.

Kyle: 00:33:45

What are they going to do, take your law degree?

Kyle: 00:33:47

Like, you already went through this far.

Kyle: 00:33:48

Why not try to do this?

Kyle: 00:33:50

So what I did was I flew back home to Ohio after living in New York, live in New York City, and I went to all of the courthouses and police stations, got certified copies of all of my police records, and submitted it to the character and fitness board to see if I can admitted to the bar.

Kyle: 00:34:06

And so the way they do it in New York is you have to get interviewed by a prosecutor or a member of the bar to see everybody goes through it.

Kyle: 00:34:13

So the day of my interview, I'm in there, and there's, you know, dozens and dozens of law school graduates being interviewed, but they're only taking, like, two, five minutes.

Kyle: 00:34:22

I'm in there for 2 hours waiting for someone to interview me, and I finally ask, what's going on?

Kyle: 00:34:27

They go, oh, we're bringing in a special prosecutor for you.

Kyle: 00:34:30

And so finally, yeah, finally, this woman comes in, and she has my file.

Kyle: 00:34:34

And, Matt, there's, like, red tape coming out of it, you know, everything.

Kyle: 00:34:37

And I'm like, here we go.

Kyle: 00:34:38

This is, like, worthless endeavor.

Kyle: 00:34:41

And so finally we sit down, and she starts going through this file, and she goes, quite the file here.

Kyle: 00:34:45

And I go, yeah.

Kyle: 00:34:46

And then she pulls out this piece of paper.

Kyle: 00:34:48

And I was like, what are we going to talk about?

Kyle: 00:34:49

Are we going to talk about my fighting?

Kyle: 00:34:50

Are we going to talk about, like, my underage drinking?

Kyle: 00:34:52

What are we going to talk about?

Kyle: 00:34:54

And she saw, oh, I see.

Kyle: 00:34:55

You got caught speeding, Michigan, like, while I was in law school.

Kyle: 00:34:59

I was like, yeah.

Kyle: 00:35:00

She goes, well, how do I know you're not going to do this going forward?

Kyle: 00:35:03

And I'm thinking, this is what she's questioning me about.

Kyle: 00:35:05

I go, well, I live in New York City now.

Kyle: 00:35:07

I don't even have a car, so it's impossible for me.

Kyle: 00:35:10

She goes, oh, I guess you're right.

Kyle: 00:35:11

She had, like, a little laugh about it.

Kyle: 00:35:12

She goes through the rest of my file.

Kyle: 00:35:14

It doesn't really ask me any more questions.

Kyle: 00:35:15

Goes, you're going to be a good, you know, a good.

Kyle: 00:35:18

An ethical attorney.

Kyle: 00:35:18

I was like, yes, ma'am.

Kyle: 00:35:20

And that was it.

Kyle: 00:35:20

Stamped.

Kyle: 00:35:21

I was admitted to the bar, and I was like, a great weight was lifted off my shoulders because I was.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:35:26

I bet, really?

Kyle: 00:35:28

And again, I thought that that would fix everything, too.

Kyle: 00:35:31

I thought, okay, so look.

Kyle: 00:35:32

See?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:35:33

And another reason to external validation.

Kyle: 00:35:35

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:35:35

Another reason, too.

Kyle: 00:35:36

I wasn't going to go through the character and fitness evaluation.

Kyle: 00:35:39

I was so scared.

Kyle: 00:35:40

Not scared, worried that triple B was like, yep, I told you you couldn't do this.

Kyle: 00:35:43

And so I didn't want to hear him saying that.

Kyle: 00:35:46

So that was a big part of the back of my head.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:35:48

But then you also know that he's not gonna care, right, if you do eventually.

Kyle: 00:35:53

But I'm still trying.

Kyle: 00:35:54

I'm still trying, right?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:35:55

I know.

Kyle: 00:35:56

It's insane.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:35:56

Humans.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:35:57

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:35:58

It's not insane.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:35:59

I would venture to say it's probably normal.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:36:02

I think that if anyone has that experience, they think they could relate, but it's funny.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:36:07

Not funny.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:36:08

Just like, it's not insane that we think, okay, well, it's gonna validate him.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:36:14

But then we're also, like, we know that even if it validates me, he's not gonna validate it ever.

Kyle: 00:36:21

Exactly.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:36:22

And, like, it's a.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:36:23

It's like a.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:36:24

An endless trial that you're on for yourself to try to get this and no win, I would assume.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:36:31

Well, maybe there was.

Kyle: 00:36:32

Yeah, but also, like, I think part of that, too, is, like, it started morphing into, like, well, can you do a.

Kyle: 00:36:38

Kyle can?

Kyle: 00:36:38

Like, you know, starting to see if you're capable of it?

Kyle: 00:36:41

Like, Juan wants to see if I can do this, you know, prove to myself that I'm worthy of it, because I didn't feel worthy of a lot of things.

Kyle: 00:36:48

So I was trying to, you know, seek all these external validations to try and, you know, fix me and try to say I am worthy.

Kyle: 00:36:56

And so a lot of it, too, starts shifting towards, I'm doing it for me to prove to myself, hey, I am.

Kyle: 00:37:01

I'm worthy.

Kyle: 00:37:01

Hey, world, look at me.

Kyle: 00:37:02

I am good.

Kyle: 00:37:03

So this is what I can do.

Kyle: 00:37:04

Things like that.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:05

Yeah, but it's like that balance.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:07

I mean, it's like that law scale with the scale.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:09

What is it?

Kyle: 00:37:10

The lady of justice with the.

Kyle: 00:37:12

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:12

That I'm thinking, like, okay, well, is Kyle thinking, like he's trying to prove it to himself, or is it really just this triple b that's just weighing everything down?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:22

Because as you tell your story, there's a lot of triumph.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:26

There's a ton of triumph.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:28

As you talk about all the things that a lot of people probably wouldn't been able to achieve, that you did yet.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:36

And I can understand this as well.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:38

You seek the next stamp of approval.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:41

You seek the next.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:42

Whatever it may be.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:43

Like, maybe one more thing will help.

Kyle: 00:37:46

Right?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:47

One more thing.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:48

And then another thing.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:49

I did the same thing.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:50

I totally get that.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:51

And so.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:51

But when you tell your story, and I hope you see this now, I'm sure you do.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:56

Lots of triumph.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:57

Lots of things.

Kyle: 00:37:58

Absolutely.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:59

Society would have excluded you from had you written you off, if you will, just, like, triple b did, you know, and you did it.

Kyle: 00:38:08

So I was also searching.

Kyle: 00:38:09

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:38:10

For the next thing.

Kyle: 00:38:10

Like, I want to be good enough.

Kyle: 00:38:11

I'm good enough.

Kyle: 00:38:12

And eventually, I realized it, Kyle, wouldn't have mattered if you didn't even graduate high school.

Kyle: 00:38:16

You know, you are good enough.

Kyle: 00:38:17

You were good enough back then.

Kyle: 00:38:19

And so it's a long.

Kyle: 00:38:20

It takes a long time to get there, though.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:38:22

But there was like.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:38:23

I still feel like early in that story, this still sounded like there was that fire in Kyle, like, deeply buried, maybe like burning, that you knew.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:38:31

You knew you could do it and you had faith in yourself.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:38:34

It's just sometimes we're conditioned to do the other things, right?

Kyle: 00:38:37

And I never had any.

Kyle: 00:38:38

So that brings me to the next.

Kyle: 00:38:40

I never really had anybody cultivate that spark, you know, it was just always myself.

Kyle: 00:38:43

I was granted.

Kyle: 00:38:44

So after I was admitted to the bar, I was like, well, you know what?

Kyle: 00:38:49

I don't think I want to practice law.

Kyle: 00:38:51

Law.

Kyle: 00:38:52

I'm open to it because I had such bad experience at that internship.

Kyle: 00:38:55

These guys working like 89 hours a week working in matrimonial law, and they hated every second of.

Kyle: 00:39:01

Yeah, they were, like, making all kinds of money, but all they cared about was, like, billable hours.

Kyle: 00:39:04

And they were miserable.

Kyle: 00:39:05

And I was looking at them, I was like, I don't know if I want to do this.

Kyle: 00:39:07

I was getting panic attacks when I was working with them.

Kyle: 00:39:10

It was terrible.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:39:11

I worked so hard to achieve all this, and this is what I end up with, right?

Kyle: 00:39:15

And so I started to apply to alternative legal careers where you need a law degree, but you're not actually practicing.

Kyle: 00:39:21

And I got a job at a company, at this education company, and the CEO and president is actually similar age to me.

Kyle: 00:39:30

And you.

Kyle: 00:39:31

He actually kind of took me under his wing.

Kyle: 00:39:33

This is the first time somebody, like, told me about, like, setting goals, you know, about meditating, about reading the right books and things, like.

Kyle: 00:39:40

And he really, like, blew my mind.

Kyle: 00:39:43

And it was great because he was same age as me, and he's running like, this multi million dollar company, and he's, like, telling me not.

Kyle: 00:39:49

He's not saying it out loud.

Kyle: 00:39:50

He's like, you can do this, too.

Kyle: 00:39:51

You can do something with your life, too.

Kyle: 00:39:53

Here's how I did it.

Kyle: 00:39:54

Here's how to do it.

Kyle: 00:39:55

And I still.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:39:56

That's what worked for me.

Kyle: 00:39:57

And it was.

Kyle: 00:39:57

It was so life changing, similar to Mister Brady, but now I was ready to hear it.

Kyle: 00:40:02

And he was.

Kyle: 00:40:03

This guy, his name's David.

Kyle: 00:40:05

He actually gave me the tools to do it.

Kyle: 00:40:07

And so it was actually amazing.

Kyle: 00:40:10

This is what I was cravings for so bad.

Kyle: 00:40:12

I was, like, starving for this.

Kyle: 00:40:13

So I ate up everything he was telling me.

Kyle: 00:40:15

And he really changed my life about, like I said, just setting goals about what I am capable about, pushing the boundaries, getting out of my comfort zone, everything, you name it.

Kyle: 00:40:24

And it really altered the course of my life.

Kyle: 00:40:27

And I feel.

Kyle: 00:40:28

And I understand, not everybody has that person in their life, or I understand how lucky I was to run into this.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:40:37

You worked your butt off to get there.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:40:38

So I agree.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:40:39

Maybe it was all predestined, maybe.

Kyle: 00:40:43

But I'm so thankful for him and so thankful for him at that, at that moment.

Kyle: 00:40:48

And so that was a huge thing that happened to me, and it was.

Kyle: 00:40:52

It was amazing.

Kyle: 00:40:53

And I was just, like.

Kyle: 00:40:54

I just dove in all the way.

Kyle: 00:40:56

And also around this time, too, I got into running.

Kyle: 00:40:59

And we can talk about running if you want, but running and ultra running became a huge part of my life.

Kyle: 00:41:03

I'm a huge runner, too, because I wasn't really a big exercise guy, but that was good to get, like, mental clarity and things like that.

Kyle: 00:41:10

And so I was in New York City about five years, and I was like, you know what?

Kyle: 00:41:16

I'm done with.

Kyle: 00:41:16

Not.

Kyle: 00:41:17

Not done with New York City.

Kyle: 00:41:18

But I was like, it was time to move on.

Kyle: 00:41:19

k to Ohio, and this is around: 2013

Kyle: 00:41:28

And when I moved back, I started a similar business where I was working for with David, and that kind of just kind of blew up a little bit, but enough where I was able to support myself, and it was actually great.

Kyle: 00:41:38

Gave me a lot of free time, too.

Kyle: 00:41:40

But also I knew that I learned from David was, you know, again, who you hang out with is going to dictate your future.

Kyle: 00:41:46

So when I moved back to Ohio, I just started hanging out with all my running friends.

Kyle: 00:41:52

Like, people who like to run, like, people like to push themselves.

Kyle: 00:41:54

People like to, you know, have a good life and a healthy life and a healthy lifestyle.

Kyle: 00:41:59

So I just met these great friends that I'm still best friends with today, and I was hung out with them every day, and I went on adventures out west.

Kyle: 00:42:07

I rent, I bought, like, a conversion van, and I spent, like, six months out west, like, traveling around, meeting a bunch of other people.

Kyle: 00:42:13

And when I came back, and this is, like, one of the biggest life shifts that happened to me.

Kyle: 00:42:17

And when I came back from that trip, I was like, you know what?

Kyle: 00:42:20

I want to write about my life.

Kyle: 00:42:22

I want to tell my story to the people and what I thought my story was going to be like, oh, you know, I spent six years in high school.

Kyle: 00:42:29

I was a bad kid.

Kyle: 00:42:30

I was bad.

Kyle: 00:42:31

I overcame this, overcame this.

Kyle: 00:42:33

And then as I started writing, I was like, well, let's start at the beginning, kyle, what is your first memory, your life?

Kyle: 00:42:39

I'm trying to think about my first memory, and it was when I was four years old, when I met triple B.

Kyle: 00:42:45

That was my first memory that I ever had.

Kyle: 00:42:47

So I started writing this, and I started just crying, and I just started writing about how I grew up.

Kyle: 00:42:53

And I wasn't even planning on writing any of this stuff, but this was the first time that I realized how I grew up and how bad it was and how serious it was and why.

Kyle: 00:43:05

The reasons why I became who I was.

Kyle: 00:43:08

And it was really, like, hard at that moment, but it was amazing because now I know what happened, and now I can do something about it.

Kyle: 00:43:17

Now I can change the narrative.

Kyle: 00:43:19

I can change what's going on now.

Kyle: 00:43:20

I was like, oh, you happen to, you know, you can, you know, seek therapy.

Kyle: 00:43:24

You can talk to people.

Kyle: 00:43:24

Now you know why you act these way this way.

Kyle: 00:43:27

Now you know why you tried to find those kind of friends that weren't good for you, and, you know, you're trying to prove something, but it was actually life altering.

Kyle: 00:43:35

That was one of the biggest things that ever happened.

Kyle: 00:43:37

I started writing this because I.

Kyle: 00:43:39

You.

Kyle: 00:43:40

If you would have told me ten minutes before I started writing, it was like, oh, were you, you know, abused as a kid?

Kyle: 00:43:44

I was like, no, my stepdad was just a jerk.

Kyle: 00:43:46

You know what I mean?

Kyle: 00:43:46

I would have said, like, that's what I would have said.

Kyle: 00:43:48

But after this, it was crazy.

Kyle: 00:43:51

And it just opened up a lot of things for me that obviously I had to work through.

Kyle: 00:43:55

But it was just.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:43:56

Yeah, you probably got messy for a little bit.

Kyle: 00:43:58

Oh, for sure.

Kyle: 00:43:59

And I'm still, you know, working on it.

Kyle: 00:44:00

I'm not like, you know.

Kyle: 00:44:02

But it was.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:03

You're not.

Kyle: 00:44:03

Well, you know, I'm sure that's what.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:07

That's what's coming.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:08

You're just perfect.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:09

Yeah, no, I think it's.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:11

I think a lot.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:12

That was what happened to me in therapy was a very similar experience because I was, like, I was going to therapy for, like, work just was, like, really crappy at the time.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:23

And then I started, like, emptying my story to her, and she's like, you realize that all the decisions that you've made since.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:31

Since your mom died, you were making with that eight year old in mind, like, a fear of that eight year old.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:36

And it was like you said, the clouds parted and like, oh.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:41

And then I was able to connect all these dots of all the things and decisions and poor decisions and things that I made over the years, and it just comes.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:50

And then you're like, what do I do with all this?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:51

So I'm sure as you're writing this on paper.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:54

Like, really.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:56

Like, did this really, like, could this be true?

Kyle: 00:44:59

Right?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:59

Did you have any of those moments where you're like, this feels like it's a movie, not Kyle's life?

Kyle: 00:45:05

Well, I.

Kyle: 00:45:06

So, after I wrote it all down, I was like, well, am I the only way?

Kyle: 00:45:10

It feels this way?

Kyle: 00:45:10

So my brother, my sister experienced, like, grew up in the same household.

Kyle: 00:45:14

So what I did before I published it, I shared it with them, and they read the whole thing, and they were like.

Kyle: 00:45:19

It was eye opening them, too, because they never.

Kyle: 00:45:21

Because, remember my mom?

Kyle: 00:45:23

So this is your dad.

Kyle: 00:45:24

This is love, this.

Kyle: 00:45:25

And so we were all playing along this whole time, and once I shared it to them, they're like, oh, my God.

Kyle: 00:45:30

Yes.

Kyle: 00:45:30

This is exactly what happened.

Kyle: 00:45:32

Like, this is what, you know, our life was like, like, thank.

Kyle: 00:45:34

No, like, thank you for bringing this up, but, like, it helped them heal as well, too, and way to move forward.

Kyle: 00:45:40

It was.

Kyle: 00:45:41

It was really.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:45:42

Did they face any similar challenges?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:45:44

Not that you have to give away their secrets, but did they face any, like, not as bad as similar challenges.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:45:49

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:45:50

So it was just.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:45:52

You absorbed more of it, probably.

Kyle: 00:45:54

I don't.

Kyle: 00:45:54

I.

Kyle: 00:45:55

Maybe my brother, like, absorbed the meanness of him more than I did.

Kyle: 00:46:00

I think I took it worse, but I don't know.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:03

Because you were younger, you didn't have any memories before that, right?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:07

And I just felt, like, first lasting memory.

Kyle: 00:46:10

And so, yeah, when I told my brother story, he said he had no idea that that was your first memory, you know?

Kyle: 00:46:15

And so.

Kyle: 00:46:16

But it was good to get validation that I'm not crazy, that I'm not making this.

Kyle: 00:46:19

You know, they were like, yeah, this is exactly what happened.

Kyle: 00:46:22

Right?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:23

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:23

No, I could imagine if you told other people, they'd be like, that's.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:27

You're just, you know, you're embellishing that, or, you know, this, that or the other.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:31

You had control all along.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:33

You're like, really?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:34

I was four.

Kyle: 00:46:34

Right.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:35

You know?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:35

Exactly.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:36

That's deeply embedded.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:37

Those feelings and those things that happen around that time.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:41

You're.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:41

I can.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:42

I mean, your story makes sense to me.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:44

I think there are people that it would not make sense.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:47

Like.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:47

And it wouldn't be validated, because they wouldn't be like.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:50

They'd be like, no, you could just.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:52

You can just change on your own.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:53

You can just stop doing that, Kyle.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:46:55

And you're like, I really wanted to, but that was just the way my life was turning out.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:47:00

It was just.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:47:01

I got myself into these situations.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:47:03

I didn't want to, but I did, and that's how it happened.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:47:06

And I, you know, like, so many triumphs, like I said before, but I can imagine what that, what that book, was it scary putting that book into the world?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:47:15

For sure, because it's one thing to write it down and share it with your family.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:47:19

Right?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:47:19

Right, for sure.

Kyle: 00:47:20

Well, because I, right when I published it, I shared it with my mom, and it did not go over well because she.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:47:28

Did she tell you you were wrong or.

Kyle: 00:47:29

No, she was like, well, you know what she hangs on to?

Kyle: 00:47:32

It's like, well, there are good parts of your childhood, right?

Kyle: 00:47:35

Like, that's what she hangs on to.

Kyle: 00:47:37

And that's what she, like, she goes, you know, I love you.

Kyle: 00:47:39

And I do.

Kyle: 00:47:39

I don't want, again, I don't want my listeners think I don't love my mom.

Kyle: 00:47:42

I do love my mom, but, like, she grew up, like, at a different, different life, and it's just she wants to pretend, and I can't control the way, you know, she's going to heal.

Kyle: 00:47:53

Like, I want her to be happy.

Kyle: 00:47:55

Of course I do.

Kyle: 00:47:56

But I need to focus in order for me to help her out.

Kyle: 00:47:58

I need to heal myself and focus on me.

Kyle: 00:48:01

And if I didn't focus on me, then I would just be unhappy, too, to my detriment, and then she would still be unhappy, too.

Kyle: 00:48:06

So what?

Kyle: 00:48:07

And so I just need to focus on me healing, and I can't change anybody else.

Kyle: 00:48:10

I just focus on what I can control and move forward.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:48:13

Well, you experienced that as well.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:48:14

No one could change you either until you were truly ready to grab that toolbox that David gave you.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:48:20

You know, you heard what Mister Brady said, probably sat with you a little bit.

Kyle: 00:48:24

It.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:48:25

You moved forward, but you weren't ready until you were handed the tools on how it would work for you.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:48:31

And the tools that were given you were.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:48:33

That you were given probably don't work for everybody, right?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:48:37

Like, you have to be ready and in the right place, right time.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:48:40

The universe was conspiring for you to, you know, come across David and learn these things from him and see someone successful that's a similar age.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:48:49

They're like, oh, I could probably do that, too.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:48:52

Like, I could try these things.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:48:53

And you were ready to do it at that time, right?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:48:55

Do you see it as that?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:48:56

Or do you think if you met David when you were 18, you would have taken those on?

Kyle: 00:49:01

No, it was the right time.

Kyle: 00:49:03

Absolutely.

Kyle: 00:49:03

I was ready.

Kyle: 00:49:04

I was craving it.

Kyle: 00:49:05

I forget what that saying is.

Kyle: 00:49:07

The teacher will show up when the student's ready or whatever.

Kyle: 00:49:10

I don't know if I ever quoted that until today, but I guess that's what happened.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:49:15

Well, it's true.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:49:16

I think from my own experience, I feel like until I'm fully aware of what I need, I won't accept any pieces.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:49:24

You know?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:49:24

Like, I have to be ready for therapy.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:49:26

I have to be ready for whatever, for it to work for me.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:49:30

If someone had forced me at 22 into therapy because, like, you had to go or court ordered or something, I don't think, I don't think it would have worked because I would have been, I don't need this.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:49:42

What are you talking about?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:49:43

I'm fine.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:49:44

You know, until I was like, oh, I'm not fine.

Kyle: 00:49:47

Right?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:49:48

And then it was like, then it worked.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:49:49

Right?

Kyle: 00:49:50

And to answer your question, it still is scary putting this story out there.

Kyle: 00:49:54

But I think it's pretty important that question.

Kyle: 00:49:57

But I think it's pretty important because it's selfishly, it's very healing for me.

Kyle: 00:50:01

And also sharing my story, like I hear back from other people, it's like, oh, my gosh.

Kyle: 00:50:05

Like, this is, you know, similar to kind of what my story is.

Kyle: 00:50:09

And also, I always had this excuse in the back of my head, like, no, you guys don't understand.

Kyle: 00:50:14

My story's different.

Kyle: 00:50:15

You know what I mean?

Kyle: 00:50:15

There's no healing or coming back from that or shifting from that.

Kyle: 00:50:18

Like, my story's different, but, like, yes, everyone's story is different, but I never thought I'd be able to be where I'm at today, like, you know, years ago.

Kyle: 00:50:26

Cause I always thought in my head, like, oh, no, my story's just too messed up and, like, too, like, my mom's still with this guy, so that's excuse you guys wouldn't understand.

Kyle: 00:50:34

You know what I mean?

Kyle: 00:50:35

And so I don't know where I'm going with this, but what I'm saying is just, there's, I stopped with the excuses, I guess, and just, and I knew there's something inside me that I wanted to put this story out there, and I'm just very glad that I did.

Kyle: 00:50:47

And it still is scary today.

Kyle: 00:50:49

You know, people say, oh, once you put your story out there, it's, everything's, you know, rainbows and shut down.

Kyle: 00:50:53

It's not, you know, I'm still healing.

Kyle: 00:50:54

I'm still moving through this, and it's just, I'm trying to do my best.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:50:58

But it's out of you.

Kyle: 00:50:59

Right.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:50:59

I think that's a, that's a big healing piece.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:51:02

You're not keeping it all inside anymore, which is really tiring and really, you know, like.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:51:08

And so just letting it out.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:51:10

I.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:51:11

Sometimes I talk to people, and I'm like, you know, sometimes I manifest these things in my head, and they seem so scary, and then I say them out loud to someone, I'm like, oh, that's not that bad.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:51:19

Like, it feels like more power.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:51:21

And I would assume that putting your story to paper and then publishing it for the world to read, if they choose to, can be that fairly similar.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:51:30

Like, it just gets it out of you, and now you can move forward with what you have created for yourself.

Kyle: 00:51:35

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:51:36

And it's like, my hope is, like, it just heals some other people, or hopefully it helps other people, too.

Kyle: 00:51:41

So that was the main reason.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:51:42

Are you finding that.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:51:43

Are you finding that people that have read it are saying, you know, I dealt with something similar, or, you know, and then does that help.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:51:51

Help you heal more to realize you aren't the only one that's gone through something so terrible, in your experience?

Kyle: 00:51:59

Yeah, it.

Kyle: 00:52:00

Well, it reinforces that I did the right thing putting it out there, and I'm glad it's helping other people.

Kyle: 00:52:04

But now I know.

Kyle: 00:52:05

I mean, I think I'm mature enough, and I know that other people have gone through these similar things, and.

Kyle: 00:52:10

And I think it's good, too.

Kyle: 00:52:11

Like, we're so scared to, like, talk about these things, but we got to shine a light on, like, all this kind of stuff.

Kyle: 00:52:17

Like, even these bad things that we might be embarrassed or ashamed about.

Kyle: 00:52:20

Like, we got to shine a light on it.

Kyle: 00:52:22

It won't be.

Kyle: 00:52:22

And then it won't hurt so bad.

Kyle: 00:52:24

It won't have this power over us because this had a power over me for so, you know, for so long.

Kyle: 00:52:30

And then I was just like, I'm sick of it.

Kyle: 00:52:31

But, like, you know, now it's out here.

Kyle: 00:52:32

Like, now I'm just shining a light on.

Kyle: 00:52:34

It's like, you can't hurt me.

Kyle: 00:52:35

Like, the way you have been hurting or keeping me back.

Kyle: 00:52:37

The way you haven't keepd me back.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:52:39

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:52:39

No.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:52:40

There's power in normalizing some of these feelings that we have, because we are humans and we have all these feelings, and you probably have had all of them.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:52:49

Sadness, shame, anger, all the pieces of happiness, all the pieces that come with you.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:52:55

But our generation, growing up, we were really, as guys were told, you can show anger, which you did.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:02

You can show happiness if you want to.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:05

Happiness and anger.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:06

You weren't allowed to show people that you were sad.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:09

You weren't allowed to show people that things weren't.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:12

That you didn't have things under control.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:14

Right.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:14

Like, I feel like we were just taught to be, like, angry or happy.

Kyle: 00:53:17

Right, exactly.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:18

Don't do anything else.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:19

But now that if we're like.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:21

Like, Kyle, I'm having a terrible day today, and that's okay, you know, like, I'll figure it out.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:26

I'm going to work through it, but I'm acknowledging it and putting it out loud and normalizing the fact that, like, we can feel however we need to feel.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:32

Because were full humans, I guess.

Kyle: 00:53:35

And I've gotten a lot of the tools.

Kyle: 00:53:36

Like, what's helped me out, too, is, like, obviously writing, but now, like, you know, journaling.

Kyle: 00:53:39

I don't know if you practice with journaling, but, like, journaling helps so much because you just see patterns in there.

Kyle: 00:53:44

It's good to get all your thoughts out at the beginning of the day.

Kyle: 00:53:47

And so that's helped me out a lot, too.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:49

What makes you feel most like, human these days?

Kyle: 00:53:53

Most human?

Kyle: 00:53:54

Well, like, running makes me feel most human.

Kyle: 00:53:57

That's where I feel most alive.

Kyle: 00:53:58

Just running out there.

Kyle: 00:53:59

I don't.

Kyle: 00:53:59

I don't listen to, like, music or anything like that.

Kyle: 00:54:01

And usually I'm with my friends, but when I'm out by myself running in the middle of the woods or something like that, that's where I feel the most.

Kyle: 00:54:07

Because then I could see, you know, how far you're.

Kyle: 00:54:09

What you're capable of doing.

Kyle: 00:54:10

It's just you and the outside world.

Kyle: 00:54:12

So that's what I love doing the most.

Kyle: 00:54:14

Is.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:15

Is that like a thought cleansing?

Kyle: 00:54:17

Absolutely.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:18

Experience for you, too.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:19

Do you process thoughts or you kind of erase and just run and do your thing?

Kyle: 00:54:24

I think it's more of a processing the thoughts.

Kyle: 00:54:26

You're just going through things and just, you know, going through life.

Kyle: 00:54:29

And I.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:29

It's like journaling without, like.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:31

But exactly running.

Kyle: 00:54:32

Yep.

Kyle: 00:54:32

Exactly.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:33

In a way.

Kyle: 00:54:33

Yeah.

Kyle: 00:54:34

It's just very.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:34

No, I mean, that makes sense.

Kyle: 00:54:35

Meditative.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:36

But you were running your whole life, right?

Kyle: 00:54:38

No, I just.

Kyle: 00:54:38

Technically, I just started running.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:40

No, but, like, metaphorically.

Kyle: 00:54:42

There you go.

Kyle: 00:54:43

Exactly.

Kyle: 00:54:44

Yes, I was.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:45

And, like.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:46

And now you're running with purpose.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:47

Now you're running because you choose to.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:49

To see how far you can go.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:51

Whereas your whole life, you are running from triple b and or running, you know, like, to the next thing that maybe can make everyone love you, maybe can impress everyone, maybe can show everyone that they were wrong.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:55:03

And now you're like, now I'm gonna just run because it helps me.

Kyle: 00:55:05

Well, I think so.

Kyle: 00:55:06

Just to put in a little another metaphor, I think I was running away from myself, as opposed to.

Kyle: 00:55:10

I think I just turned around and started running towards myself inside myself.

Kyle: 00:55:14

And so I think that's a big thing that I did.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:55:17

That little fire that I was like, you had some kind of fire.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:55:21

It's like, now you're running to light it up even more.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:55:23

Well, that's cool.

Kyle: 00:55:24

Yeah, that's the title of my book is wandering Spark.

Kyle: 00:55:26

And that's kind of like, why I wrote a, like, had that title, because I had that little spark inside me.

Kyle: 00:55:31

It could have gone either way, though.

Kyle: 00:55:32

Like, could have.

Kyle: 00:55:34

I could have blew myself up and.

Kyle: 00:55:35

But it was a spark inside me that, you know, flourished and blossomed.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:55:39

I.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:55:39

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:55:40

Just for full disclosure to everyone listening, I choose not to know too much about the people that I speak to on the podcast.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:55:47

So I'm not, like a jerk.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:55:49

I just don't want to know too much because I really want these conversations to unfold in the way that they have.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:55:54

So I think it's interesting that I kind of saw that, and now that's your title.

Kyle: 00:55:59

No, I appreciate it, actually.

Kyle: 00:56:00

That reinforces that.

Kyle: 00:56:01

It was a good title for me.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:04

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:05

The thing about your story is that although unique to you, it's probably unfortunately not unique to a lot of people in a similar.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:14

The way that they felt growing up and the way that that affected them as they tried to go through each stage of life, if you will.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:22

But you did the right thing, in my opinion, by putting it out there for the world to see so that other people can see.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:28

Oh, he went through all this, but look what he's doing now.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:32

Look what he did for himself.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:33

Look how he turned this around.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:35

Maybe I can take one of those tools from his toolkit and try it in my own world to, like, make my life feel the way that feels most human, if we will.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:45

You know, maybe it's not running, maybe it's not journaling, but maybe it's something that they read that you.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:50

That you also do, and they choose to do that.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:52

So I think.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:53

I think you've made that terrible situation into something that can be really valuable for other people, not just yourself.

Kyle: 00:57:01

Right.

Kyle: 00:57:01

Thank you.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:57:02

So, yeah, no, I think it's a similar vein to.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:57:06

I know you said, like, something about it was, like, somewhat selfish because it was healing in a way.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:57:11

For me, this podcast is somewhat selfish as well, because every conversation I have has this little element of healing, that eight year old version of me that just felt like he was the only kid, and so it's just such a valuable experience and so relatable in a terrible way because humans shouldn't have to go through all these things that we go through.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:57:32

But I guess that's part of the journey that each of us has on this earth.

Kyle: 00:57:36

And I think us being like, being in service to others, you know, I'm sure in the book you're doing the podcast.

Kyle: 00:57:42

I think that's really helpful too.

Kyle: 00:57:44

Like, selfishly is fulfilling, but also being a service, just trying to help out of as much as you can.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:57:49

And I think the more that we do it, like, we discovered this decades into our journeys, right.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:57:55

But I think the more that we can do it, maybe the younger generations can pick that up early on and then they don't have to wait till they're in their thirties and forties to kind of really manifest the change that they want to see in themselves, but also in the people around them.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:58:10

So I think by what we're doing, I see that as the hope that comes from it.

Kyle: 00:58:14

That's my hope as well.

Kyle: 00:58:16

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:58:17

So if people want to read your book and stuff, how do we get that?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:58:22

How do we figure that out?

Kyle: 00:58:23

So my book is on Amazon and Barnes and Noble.

Kyle: 00:58:27

Wandering Spark is the title of it.

Kyle: 00:58:29

And then all my social medias is Kyle v.

Kyle: 00:58:31

Robinson.

Kyle: 00:58:32

On all my social medias, on everything.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:58:34

Awesome.

Kyle: 00:58:34

Find me.

Kyle: 00:58:35

Say hi.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:58:35

Well, yeah, definitely connect with Kyle.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:58:38

Before I let you go, I do want to ask you a question, and I'm trying to think of who, if this version of Kyle could go back to the version of Kyle that's sitting in that in school suspension.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:58:53

And just like, how do I.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:58:55

I gotta be good, and I have to make it through, and I.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:58:58

How do I figure that?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:58:59

Is there anything that you would want to tell him?

Kyle: 00:59:01

Well, so it's funny you say that.

Kyle: 00:59:02

I actually have talked to him before, and I do, you know, through therapy.

Kyle: 00:59:06

I don't know if you're familiar with ifs therapy, internal family systems, where I do go back and I do talk to him.

Kyle: 00:59:11

I have told him that, you know, and just tell them that I am here for you.

Kyle: 00:59:15

Somebody is here for you.

Kyle: 00:59:17

I talk to that four year old more often, you know, telling them that I am here for you.

Kyle: 00:59:21

You are worthy and, like, you are loved, because I didn't.

Kyle: 00:59:23

I didn't feel loved for a large, long portion of my life.

Kyle: 00:59:27

And so I talk to them often, to be honest with you, and I let them know that I'm here for you.

Kyle: 00:59:32

So just knowing that, you know, they're still part of me.

Kyle: 00:59:35

And they're just like.

Kyle: 00:59:36

And just knowing that they have somebody.

Kyle: 00:59:38

Because growing up, I felt like I didn't have anybody.

Kyle: 00:59:41

Like, I felt like no one was there for me.

Kyle: 00:59:43

And so I didn't know that at the time.

Kyle: 00:59:45

I didn't know what I was looking for.

Kyle: 00:59:46

And so it's nice to tell them that I am there for them.

Kyle: 00:59:49

And, you know, I'm an adult now, and you're gonna be okay, and then I love you.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:59:53

That is probably what they.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:59:55

What that version of you needed to hear, because you were told what love was, but you weren't shown in a way that maybe you understand now as an adult and the self love and those pieces that come along with it.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:07

Yeah, it's so interesting.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:09

I think more people that I talk to, to are doing what you do and have those conversations with those people.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:14

So I'm glad that you're doing that and you regularly do it.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:17

I think it's such a healthy practice that probably the 18 year old version of you would not think was anything real.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:26

Correct.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:26

I think we would be like, what?

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:28

What are you talking about?

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:29

Why would you do that?

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:30

But it's just such a valuable experience.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:32

So thank you for sharing your story in this way, in the way that you do.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:36

And I look forward to reading your book and reading in between all the pieces that you probably had to skip over for this podcast.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:43

It's really an important thing you're doing.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:44

So thank you for that.

Kyle: 01:00:45

No, man, I appreciate you let me share my story.

Kyle: 01:00:47

And thank you so much.

Kyle: 01:00:48

You're doing a great, great service here on your podcast.

Kyle: 01:00:50

So thank you.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:51

Well, I appreciate that.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:53

I will accept that.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:54

If you heard Kyle's story today and you know someone in your life that might benefit from hearing his story, we would love it if you would share this episode with them.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:01:02

That would be super valuable if it helped you reach out to Kyle.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:01:06

Tell him.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:01:06

Tell him so.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:01:07

Tell him that you related to something that he said.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:01:10

I think he will also enjoy that.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:01:13

And with that, I'm going to say goodbye, and I will be back next week with a brand new episode of the Life Shift podcast.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:01:19

Thanks again, Kyle.

Kyle: 01:01:20

Thank you.

Kyle: 01:01:20

Goodbye, everybody.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:01:34

For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com.