From Disillusion to Faith

In this episode of Orange Hatter, Tali explores the journey of JB, a physician assistant who saw flaws in traditional Western medicine and discovered Bitcoin as a transformative force. The conversation touches on the value of Bitcoin in fostering personal freedom and financial stability, despite it being often technically complex to comprehend. A significant emphasis is given to the importance of enhancing self-education on finance and economics.

00:03 Introduction and Announcement of Women's Retreat

01:22 Guest Introduction and Conversation Start

01:56 Guest's Background and Professional Experiences

02:47 Exploring Nutrition and Holistic Approaches in Psychiatry

04:03 Questioning Traditional Western Medicine and Funding

04:35 Discovering Bitcoin and Its Potential

05:00 Personal Experiences with Nutrition and Diet

06:51 Challenges in Sharing Nutritional Approaches in Medical Practice

13:17 Transition to Bitcoin Discussion

13:22 Guest's Early Exposure to Bitcoin

15:09 Understanding the Stock Market and Bitcoin's Role

18:25 Personal Transformation and Bitcoin Adoption

18:42 Building a Local Bitcoin Community

21:05 Reflecting on the Bitcoin Learning Journey

21:45 The Importance of Community in Learning Bitcoin

22:09 Starting a Local Bitcoin Meetup

22:37 The Impact of Bitcoin Meetups and Bitcoin Park

23:30 The Character of Bitcoiners and the Value of Local Communities

25:09 Overcoming Technical Challenges in Understanding Bitcoin

31:00 The Shift in Investment and Financial Mindset

34:23 The Personal Transformation through Bitcoin

36:04 Overcoming Scarcity Mindset and Understanding Bitcoin's Role

38:20 The Spiritual Aspect of Bitcoin

39:25 Advice for Women New to Bitcoin

43:38 Closing Remarks and Invitation to Join the Women's Reading Club

***

To learn more about Bitcoin: Join the Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.  Visit https://www.meetup.com/womensbitcoinreadingclubwithorangehatter

Please email questions/comments to [email protected]

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I think maybe another time in my life I may have brushed Bitcoin off,

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but it was very easy for me to accept

Bitcoin because I'm familiar with big

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systems not working on a really large

scale and that can be hard to come to

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terms with and really disillusioning.

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Tali: Hey, everybody.

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Welcome to Orange Hatter.

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Before we dive into my conversation

with our guest today, I want to share

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with you a very exciting project,

the Orange Hatter Women's Retreat.

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The mission of this retreat is to create

a nurturing sanctuary where women in the

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Bitcoin space can connect with each other,

recharge batteries, find grounding, and

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form deep friendships so that you don't

feel so isolated where you are sharing

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the potential of Bitcoin with the world

while keeping an eye on the fiat system.

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This retreat is going to

be absolutely amazing.

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I am partnering with the

Yucatan Project in Mexico.

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The details will be rolled

out later this week.

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Keep an eye out on Twitter

at Orange Hatter Pod.

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I'll give out more information

as they are finalized.

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Spaces are very limited, and

they're going to fill up fast.

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So sign up for it when the registration

and I will see you in Mexico.

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And now we're going to.

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Continue with our podcast.

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Here is my conversation with

our wonderful guests today.

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Welcome to Orange Hatter JB.

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It's so wonderful to have you here.

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Thank you for joining us and

sharing your Bitcoin story.

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JB: thank you for having me.

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It's really excited to talk to you because

I just just recently saw you in person.

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So it's very familiar coming

back after grassroots.

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Tali: Yeah, I'm so glad we got

to meet each other in person.

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Get to know each other.

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better.

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And now I get to share your

story with our audience.

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So very excited.

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Let's start by just telling us a

little bit about your background.

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JB: So, right now I work

as a physician assistant.

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, I work in a local

hospital, small hospital.

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My, sub specialty is in psychiatry,

which is, , consult liaison psychiatry,

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and we, we work a lot with people

who, , are hospitalized on the medical

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floors or maybe coming for triage in

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the ER.

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Tali: you were sharing some feelings

about your professional experiences,

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even before you came across Bitcoin.

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Would you mind sharing

a little bit about that?

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JB: Yes, , so I worked at another

hospital in, um, I've worked

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various jobs over the past years.

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, the longest thing in psychiatry and, a

few, several years ago, I saw some folks

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and coworkers have adverse effects to

some of the things that are required

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to work in the medical industry.

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And I was really looking into

nutrition and more holistic ways

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to try and help my patients.

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I felt like I kind of maxed out what

I could do with medications and I was

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reading a lot about nutrition, a lot about

functional medicine and then kind of.

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I had some experiences where I saw

some folks have some adverse effects

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that should have really been minor

and statistically, I probably never

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should have seen if the stats were

right on those adverse events.

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And so that got me really curious

and looking closer at some things

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and traditional Western medicine.

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And I think, I just realized that

there is a lot more that can be done.

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I think from a lifestyle food

approach, we don't get much

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nutrition in medical school.

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I was really kind of naive about that.

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, and I think there's, I think we're waking

up to, , there's a lot that we don't know

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that we don't know, , in Western medicine

that maybe other disciplines kind of have

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the jump on us in terms of nutrition and.

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And that sort of thing.

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, but also the people I work

with are really smart.

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They're very intelligent and well read.

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, and so it was kind of this moment of

disillusionment where it was like, how can

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such a big industry like this be missing

some of these things that are so simple?

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, and I think.

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That led me to look further at, where the

funding comes from , in the medical world.

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And, , , potential conflicts of

interest in terms of our education,

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who, who funds our journals

and, and those types of things.

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And, um, I think the statement I was

making to you earlier is that , trying

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to understand how that happened on that

scale, , and how maybe we've overlooked

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some things like diet and lifestyle,

, really primed me, , to maybe accept.

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That there's issues like that things

going on on a scale , in our government

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and our, our banking industry.

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, and so.

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When I learned more about Bitcoin, and

when I paid more attention to Bitcoin,

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it was very, I think, maybe another

time in my life, I I may have brushed

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Bitcoin off, but it was very easy

for me to accept Bitcoin because I'm

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familiar with big systems, not working

on a really large scale, and that can

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be hard to come to terms with, and, and

really, , disillusioning, or, cause

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a lot of disillusionment if you have

been living in another larger market.

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or making other assumptions.

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Tali: So , when you started exploring

things like nutrition, diet,

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JB: That's a great question.

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Initially.

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, I think I've always been

a detail oriented person.

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I think people always advise

me not to overthink things.

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So people are kind of accustomed

to me going down rabbit holes, you

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know, and that's why I work on a

medical service or work with the

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medical services like I do now.

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I enjoy that.

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Uh, you know, for me, it was

more of a personal experience.

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I was, uh, reading about

different nutritional protocols.

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, the Walsh protocol is one.

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I really, I wound up doing

his conferences and CME.

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I really enjoyed that.

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And so what was happening for

me was I was eating better.

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I was cutting some things out of my diet.

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I was supplementing a few things

like minerals and B vitamins and

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just really seeing this amazing

change in my short term memory.

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, and that was helping out my anxiety.

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I probably was the person that

you could Spin in the ADHD anxiety

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categories and that just really

helped it transform for me.

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and so, you know, everything we do in

western medicine is evidence-based,

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and you have to be really careful

about doing anything that there

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isn't good published literature for.

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But I was trying to show up at

work in my own way and be like,

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wow, this is really working for me.

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And I've, cut out all medication and I'm

sleeping better and I'm dreaming better.

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And, you know, honestly.

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People were like, oh, that's great.

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But when I tried to really be more

specific about what was happening , and

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direct people towards books or things

like that, nobody, nobody believed me, you

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know, they just kind of had me on the head

and I felt like, gosh, I'm really feel

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like I'm shouting this from the rooftops.

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Like, this could be really great

and I think that I wonder if maybe

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there's some part of , our training

in Western medicine that sort of

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leads us to dismiss the power that.

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Just those simple changes can have.

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It was not, I don't want to say it

wasn't, well received in that sense,

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but I think it was just more dismissed.

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I think people thought it was really

overstating the benefits that I

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was getting and also I think kind

of the assumption that like, if

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that was that great, we would have

figured it out by now, you know,

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it would be in all the journals.

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It would be in all the literature.

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, and so that.

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I think that's a really long explanation.

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and I think everybody has to come

to their own conclusions to why

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that's maybe that, you know, we

don't have an emphasis as much.

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I think it's starting to happen.

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We're seeing a big push and integrative

and functional medicine and there's

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a lot of people in that that have

a prescribers license or a medical

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license that are adding that into their

practice and taking a closer look at it.

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Tali: Were you allowed to talk about it

with your patients or were you forced

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to keep that information to yourself

because the association that you're part

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of maybe doesn't support that or condone

the sharing of outside information

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JB: Um, you know, I think there was

there were certainly we have we have

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students a lot in the hospital or

is that so we would do literature

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reviews and look at the quality of

data for things like simple things like

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supplementing magnesium or things like

that and it's just not , sometimes this

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may have changed several years ago.

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It's not as robust as say, like a

cardiology study or something where.

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You can scale that and, and really look

at something that's a one or a zero.

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It's hard sometimes in

psychiatry to get hard figures.

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So I think people did entertain

the idea of doing a literature

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review, , but there's not always

an abundance of literature in the

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traditional journals out there.

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That's robust.

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That really has a high end and is

really done well, , and so, you

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know, somebody could always make

the case that, oh, there's not,

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there's not good evidence for that.

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It's very easy to say that and be right.

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, and so I think people have to

kind of ask the question, well,

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why isn't there good evidence?

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Why aren't we doing more robust studies?

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And I think that's really where, you

know, I leave it up to everybody to

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kind of decide, , and do their own,

you know, such an overused phrase, but

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do their own research on that 1, and

kind of that's just food for thought,

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but I think if, , you know, having

that conversation with people about.

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Thank you.

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Really simple things like cutting out

sugar and caffeine in their diet and

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just really practical things that I

think anybody Can get behind definitely

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was something that I became more had

a lot more conviction about But as far

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as really specific protocols, I did

actually pay to fly one doctor with

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me To the conference I want to say

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and I can't remember he he wound up I

think eventually go out into private

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practice and do that in private practice

Last that I heard, but we haven't

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we haven't been keeping up together.

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Tali: the reason I ask is because I had

a friend who was a pediatrician and in

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order to practice, you have to be a part

of the American Pediatric Association.

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And I remember meeting up with

her when my oldest daughter was

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four months old, and she said

Tali , the back of her head is flat.

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And I said, okay, I don't, you

know, I don't know what shape.

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I mean, it just looked like a head to me.

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But she said, she said,

Tali, her head is flat.

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You need to sleep her on the side.

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And I said, but my pediatrician

emphatically told me from day one

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that I need to sleep her on her back.

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And she said, she's restricted to follow

the American Pediatric Association.

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She could not tell her patients who were

coming into her practice with babies with

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a flathead to sleep them on their side.

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But she said, I'm telling you right

now, my own children, they sleep on

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their side because If they sleep on

their back, their head will be flat.

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And then you see these kids being pushed

around strollers wearing those helmet

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JB: Yeah,

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Tali: trying to reshape the head.

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JB: yeah,

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Tali: So she said her hands are tied.

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She can't tell her patients what

she's doing herself with their kids

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because she would get in trouble

and she would lose her license.

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But she said in private, I am telling you,

you need to sleep your baby on the side.

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So I'm just wondering if

there's something like that in.

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Your specific area that prevented

you from sharing outside information,

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about using nutrition or diet to

improve psychiatric condition.

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I'm just trying to understand if there

are parallels that we can be drawn here.

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JB: I think so, I think the general

answer to that question is yes, I

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think there is some testing you can

do to sometimes support nutritional.

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Interventions, , it's hard because

the protocols that are in the,

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maybe, like, the private arena, , the

standard lab that you're using, they

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may use 1 reference range is normal.

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And then your protocol may say, okay,

a different number is not normal.

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And, you know, your hospital lab is

going to call it as they, as they see it.

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And so.

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, yeah, I think especially as a, as a

physician assistant, I'm practicing

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under someone else's license.

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I'm, I have a supervising physician

and so I won't step outside of

212

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what they're comfortable with.

213

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And I was, I was fortunate at the time

to have actually worked with a physician

214

00:11:52,697 --> 00:11:56,007

who had owned a, like a supplement

store and had been in the integrative

215

00:11:56,007 --> 00:11:57,697

arena at another point in his life.

216

00:11:57,707 --> 00:12:02,727

So he was really accepting, , of my

views, but I think clinically we have

217

00:12:02,727 --> 00:12:06,914

to practice evidence based medicine

and, , you know, there is a downside to

218

00:12:06,934 --> 00:12:08,544

supplements and things like that too.

219

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They are powerful.

220

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And so people can also not tolerate them.

221

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, and so I certainly didn't want

to give someone something that.

222

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Okay.

223

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You know, can have untoward consequences

and then have them be even more anxious or

224

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feel worse and then leave the hospital and

then not have someone to follow up with.

225

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So I would say at the time I

treaded it very lightly with that.

226

00:12:26,544 --> 00:12:30,047

, and definitely stay within reason of

what's in the published literature

227

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and what's accepted as general.

228

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You know, general medical recommendations.

229

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I was and still am very aggressive

about checking for things like B12

230

00:12:37,597 --> 00:12:42,357

deficiency, things that are really

generally accepted to cause psychiatric

231

00:12:42,367 --> 00:12:46,477

illness and can be great mimicers and

look like, look like different things.

232

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And so I think at work, people know

if they're consulting and they just

233

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like, go ahead and order the B12

level, they're like, Oh, JB, we're just

234

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gonna put this order in now because

she's going to come do it if we don't.

235

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And so that's great.

236

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I'm glad to have that influence.

237

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Thank you.

238

00:13:00,350 --> 00:13:04,540

, and so I go for kind of the low hanging

fruit on things like that, and then just

239

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talk to people about generally accepted

diet and lifestyle and cutting out things

240

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that maybe could be undermining them,

especially in terms of anxiety and things

241

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like caffeine and that sort of stuff.

242

00:13:16,456 --> 00:13:16,856

Tali: Cool.

243

00:13:17,006 --> 00:13:18,946

Okay, so now let's talk Bitcoin.

244

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JB: Yeah.

245

00:13:20,246 --> 00:13:21,586

Tali: first hear about Bitcoin?

246

00:13:22,371 --> 00:13:26,021

JB: Oh man, this is, this is, so my

Bitcoin story is a little embarrassing.

247

00:13:26,021 --> 00:13:30,611

I, I heard about Bitcoin way back

when I had friends in college

248

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that were mining Bitcoin when

it was, , fractions of a penny.

249

00:13:35,101 --> 00:13:40,751

, and so I, but I really did not understand

what it was and they mentioned it in

250

00:13:40,751 --> 00:13:43,211

passing and I was like, oh, that's cool.

251

00:13:43,231 --> 00:13:47,341

My super computer nerd friends are

doing this interesting thing and they

252

00:13:47,341 --> 00:13:49,131

sort of framed it as like, if you.

253

00:13:49,419 --> 00:13:51,729

if you're in another

country, maybe it's unsafe.

254

00:13:51,729 --> 00:13:55,739

You can have this electronic

wallet and no people can't rob you.

255

00:13:55,739 --> 00:13:57,579

And I kind of sort of understood it.

256

00:13:57,589 --> 00:13:58,489

And I was like, well, that's cool.

257

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And maybe, maybe one day they'll be able

to use dollars, you know, and it had no

258

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clue, just totally checked out pre med

student, not really into politics, not

259

00:14:07,809 --> 00:14:13,179

really into banking, econ, finance, I

liked history, but didn't really know

260

00:14:13,179 --> 00:14:15,639

it, , from that standpoint and then,

261

00:14:15,876 --> 00:14:19,556

You know, I had, I had done a

fellowship in psychiatry at one point.

262

00:14:19,656 --> 00:14:23,699

, and I had tried to check out and

do something totally different,

263

00:14:23,699 --> 00:14:24,689

which was trade stocks.

264

00:14:24,699 --> 00:14:26,839

So I knew a little bit

about trading stocks.

265

00:14:26,879 --> 00:14:29,709

And then when I got further along

in my career, I started looking at

266

00:14:30,036 --> 00:14:31,656

retirement in the meantime, the 2017.

267

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Run had happened.

268

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And, , so I had heard about that just by

way of knowing people that had been early

269

00:14:38,446 --> 00:14:41,056

miners and, , it was on my radar then.

270

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I still didn't realize it was something

that I could buy on an exchange.

271

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I didn't know anything about that.

272

00:14:46,266 --> 00:14:49,076

And then, but I did

want to retire someday.

273

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And I was recognizing that inflation

was taking a toll on my life, but just

274

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didn't really have the words for it.

275

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And I kind of did the

whole Dave Ramsey thing.

276

00:14:59,106 --> 00:15:02,366

I did the whole, you know, learn

about index fund investing.

277

00:15:02,866 --> 00:15:05,266

And that was cool, but it just

didn't seem like it was going

278

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to get me where I wanted to go.

279

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and so then I started looking at.

280

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Different things like managing my own

retirement portfolios, all the things

281

00:15:12,947 --> 00:15:18,647

they tell you not to do and looking at

different stocks and following the market.

282

00:15:19,127 --> 00:15:21,767

And I think two things that

happened, one is, , I was reading

283

00:15:21,767 --> 00:15:25,107

a book on how the market moves

and how volume moves the market.

284

00:15:25,127 --> 00:15:31,005

And there was a book that was about who

moves the world it was about insider

285

00:15:31,005 --> 00:15:35,505

trading, I guess you could say, or

presumed insider trading in the market and

286

00:15:35,505 --> 00:15:40,509

how they were able to witness that and,

what markets look like before they crash.

287

00:15:40,549 --> 00:15:42,699

And I just thought that

was absolutely fascinating.

288

00:15:43,119 --> 00:15:46,899

And then separately, one of the stock

picker guys that I was following was

289

00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:48,909

really talking about Bitcoin a lot.

290

00:15:49,579 --> 00:15:51,749

And so it's interesting

because traders get a lot of.

291

00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:56,240

People don't like traders in general,

or they say, , somebody wins the

292

00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,500

trade, you know, there's a losing side,

but, , traders are interesting people.

293

00:15:59,824 --> 00:16:03,164

and I think it's, it's in a

way, it's like a sport to them.

294

00:16:03,164 --> 00:16:04,084

They really train for it.

295

00:16:04,084 --> 00:16:06,910

You really have to be aware in

your mind of what you're doing.

296

00:16:06,910 --> 00:16:08,690

So you don't sabotage yourself.

297

00:16:08,930 --> 00:16:11,680

Um, and they read a lot about

the fundamentals of companies and

298

00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:12,820

they certainly know about things.

299

00:16:13,085 --> 00:16:15,665

Like potential insider trading or

corruption in the stock market.

300

00:16:16,485 --> 00:16:21,635

So, , finally I had read about

Bitcoin and I came to the Bitcoin

301

00:16:21,635 --> 00:16:26,649

standard and I read that and then I

read the creature from Jekyll Island.

302

00:16:26,939 --> 00:16:29,609

, and I had actually joined the

trading room, the options trading

303

00:16:29,609 --> 00:16:34,070

room and seen firsthand, , big block

trades, , essentially move the market.

304

00:16:34,220 --> 00:16:34,600

And.

305

00:16:34,990 --> 00:16:37,000

I had seen them trade early before events.

306

00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:43,010

I had bought, Tesla, I'm going to

say in, in 2014, and , , really

307

00:16:43,010 --> 00:16:43,870

didn't know what I was doing.

308

00:16:43,890 --> 00:16:45,070

I mean, I want to be clear the whole time.

309

00:16:45,070 --> 00:16:46,710

I had no clue what I was doing.

310

00:16:47,270 --> 00:16:52,250

Um, and that's probably still true to

some degree, but, you know, Tesla had,

311

00:16:52,370 --> 00:16:55,755

had Stock split five times and gone up.

312

00:16:56,112 --> 00:16:59,792

you know, it would have been an insane

ROI had I held on to it, but you know, Jim

313

00:16:59,792 --> 00:17:05,112

Kramer had really gotten after Tesla and

kind of dogged it out on the television.

314

00:17:05,112 --> 00:17:09,791

And I was up, you know, like, I think my

ROI was like, 300 percent or something.

315

00:17:09,791 --> 00:17:11,242

And so I thought, Oh, it's Tesla.

316

00:17:11,242 --> 00:17:11,852

They're ruined.

317

00:17:11,862 --> 00:17:14,061

I'm you know, sell my stock or whatever.

318

00:17:14,942 --> 00:17:17,392

And then of course, we all know

what happened after that, , split

319

00:17:17,392 --> 00:17:20,301

five times and rallied to almost

a thousand dollars a share.

320

00:17:20,301 --> 00:17:20,382

Yeah.

321

00:17:20,686 --> 00:17:25,288

And so I had become aware, , that

certain people hold the view that.

322

00:17:25,731 --> 00:17:30,451

Influencers in the market can sometimes

be used to create exit liquidity for

323

00:17:30,471 --> 00:17:33,131

big hedge funds or big institutions.

324

00:17:33,681 --> 00:17:36,901

And I had become aware that

you can't always believe what

325

00:17:36,901 --> 00:17:38,521

you see on on television.

326

00:17:39,031 --> 00:17:45,231

And so I was so curious, , and this

now was COVID had started to happen.

327

00:17:45,241 --> 00:17:48,581

And so the lockdowns were happening

and I had more free time on my hands.

328

00:17:48,908 --> 00:17:52,428

And so I was in and around

these options trading room.

329

00:17:52,428 --> 00:17:53,488

I was not trading options.

330

00:17:53,488 --> 00:17:57,168

I'm not that good of a trader I have

no business going anywhere near them

331

00:17:57,424 --> 00:18:01,064

But I could actually see in real time

what was happening and and watch the

332

00:18:01,064 --> 00:18:06,204

news cycles And then see the trades

Happening big block trades happening.

333

00:18:06,354 --> 00:18:11,394

And so that was again really kind of a

period of disillusionment and then at

334

00:18:11,394 --> 00:18:15,439

the same time , in that same vein during

COVID, Jack Mallers was launching Chivo

335

00:18:15,439 --> 00:18:20,622

Wallet in El Salvador and, , doing all

these interesting and wonderful things.

336

00:18:20,812 --> 00:18:25,612

And so COVID was a really dark,

dark time for a lot of people.

337

00:18:25,612 --> 00:18:29,948

It was difficult working in the

hospital and, it was difficult accepting

338

00:18:29,958 --> 00:18:32,148

that maybe things weren't the way

I thought they were in the world.

339

00:18:32,668 --> 00:18:33,048

And.

340

00:18:33,458 --> 00:18:38,168

Bitcoin was this really cool, , area

of light to focus on where it's

341

00:18:38,168 --> 00:18:41,698

like, Hey, maybe there's a way

out of these inflationary cycles.

342

00:18:42,308 --> 00:18:43,768

, , so I started going to our local meetups.

343

00:18:44,166 --> 00:18:47,406

And I met our organizer there

that organizes our local meetup.

344

00:18:47,486 --> 00:18:52,119

I now help him co organize, but really

the creature from Jekyll Island, you

345

00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:56,409

know, I went upstairs one day and

read an insane amount of that book.

346

00:18:56,409 --> 00:18:59,179

I still, I don't think I've actually

finished it, but the majority of

347

00:18:59,179 --> 00:19:03,979

that book and it just came downstairs

a completely different person.

348

00:19:04,059 --> 00:19:04,429

I don't know.

349

00:19:04,439 --> 00:19:05,219

Have you read that?

350

00:19:05,369 --> 00:19:06,079

You have.

351

00:19:06,129 --> 00:19:06,549

Okay.

352

00:19:06,559 --> 00:19:07,529

So you know what I'm talking about.

353

00:19:08,003 --> 00:19:08,993

Tali: I have not.

354

00:19:09,136 --> 00:19:10,166

Scott read it.

355

00:19:10,426 --> 00:19:15,196

And every night he would rant about

356

00:19:15,266 --> 00:19:15,636

JB: Yes.

357

00:19:16,246 --> 00:19:19,086

Tali: so I feel like I read

it, even though I didn't.

358

00:19:20,096 --> 00:19:21,976

Now I'm just, I don't

want to be depressed.

359

00:19:22,296 --> 00:19:23,216

You know, it's a, it's

360

00:19:23,276 --> 00:19:23,596

JB: Right,

361

00:19:23,716 --> 00:19:27,876

Tali: there when you start looking

at our monetary system, even with

362

00:19:27,896 --> 00:19:29,876

Bitcoin, it just gets very depressing.

363

00:19:29,876 --> 00:19:33,466

You just start to question human

nature, you start to question

364

00:19:33,496 --> 00:19:37,271

intentions, because I tend to like

To think that most people are good.

365

00:19:37,611 --> 00:19:39,951

, most people want to do the right thing.

366

00:19:40,221 --> 00:19:43,511

And when you read books like

that, you're just like, really?

367

00:19:43,851 --> 00:19:44,681

Seriously?

368

00:19:44,871 --> 00:19:45,311

Yeah.

369

00:19:46,986 --> 00:19:51,416

JB: So needless to say I came downstairs

a completely different person and

370

00:19:51,756 --> 00:19:56,056

, I'm from the South, bless, bless my

poor ex partner's heart at the time.

371

00:19:56,056 --> 00:19:58,556

He was just like, what

happened to my girlfriend?

372

00:19:59,126 --> 00:20:02,106

You know, I really do

have sympathy for him.

373

00:20:02,116 --> 00:20:06,646

But I think probably, I'd love

to hear Scott, I'd love to

374

00:20:06,646 --> 00:20:08,146

hear Scott's side of this too.

375

00:20:08,556 --> 00:20:12,516

, because we had to have a safe word in the

house in case I talked about Bitcoin too

376

00:20:12,516 --> 00:20:17,626

much and finally he was like, Oh my gosh,

can we please talk about something else?

377

00:20:17,626 --> 00:20:20,176

And so I got like a sweatshirt

that said freedom on it.

378

00:20:20,196 --> 00:20:22,566

And then the O was a Bitcoin, of course.

379

00:20:22,596 --> 00:20:26,536

And then once a week I could go

out to my meetup and we were all

380

00:20:26,546 --> 00:20:28,166

there leaning on each other.

381

00:20:28,387 --> 00:20:30,687

And, everybody was having

the same experience.

382

00:20:30,687 --> 00:20:32,657

It was like, I just need to get

out of the house and go talk

383

00:20:32,667 --> 00:20:34,147

about Bitcoin with my friends.

384

00:20:34,177 --> 00:20:38,317

And then, fast forward now, I think

we're almost 2 years that , we initially

385

00:20:38,317 --> 00:20:41,107

were meeting weekly because we all

really needed that during covid.

386

00:20:41,547 --> 00:20:45,337

And then when the, when life resumed,

, and things have opened back up, we

387

00:20:45,347 --> 00:20:49,637

went to bi- weekly, but then still with

informal meetings on our week off because.

388

00:20:49,637 --> 00:20:49,722

Yeah.

389

00:20:50,092 --> 00:20:53,162

, there's probably we don't have a

really robust Bitcoin theme like

390

00:20:53,162 --> 00:20:55,522

Austin often or Nashville do here.

391

00:20:55,522 --> 00:20:56,912

There's people that are interested.

392

00:20:56,962 --> 00:20:58,242

, but it's a small community.

393

00:20:58,262 --> 00:21:00,042

And so we really flock to each other.

394

00:21:00,052 --> 00:21:04,202

Anytime we get the chance, no one else in

our personal lives wants to hear about it.

395

00:21:05,327 --> 00:21:09,017

Tali: when Scott really started to

pay attention to Bitcoin, he started.

396

00:21:09,256 --> 00:21:10,936

listening to all kinds of podcasts.

397

00:21:10,946 --> 00:21:13,136

He was reading book after book after book.

398

00:21:13,176 --> 00:21:17,329

And he was sending me like three

podcasts a day to say, Hey,

399

00:21:17,329 --> 00:21:18,459

you need to listen to this.

400

00:21:18,459 --> 00:21:22,049

And oh, by the way, here's a book and

here are two more and there are three

401

00:21:22,049 --> 00:21:24,366

more and just like throwing stuff at me.

402

00:21:24,416 --> 00:21:28,856

. So our safe word is the hand,

you know, like if I put up the

403

00:21:28,856 --> 00:21:31,136

hand, that's too much, you know?

404

00:21:32,376 --> 00:21:32,746

Yeah.

405

00:21:32,806 --> 00:21:33,776

And, uh, but.

406

00:21:34,301 --> 00:21:35,581

But it took him two years.

407

00:21:35,601 --> 00:21:40,161

It took him two years before he could

convince me that Bitcoin was real.

408

00:21:40,371 --> 00:21:42,821

And then of course, when I started

going down the rabbit hole, I

409

00:21:42,821 --> 00:21:45,021

was like, why didn't you grab me

410

00:21:45,056 --> 00:21:45,426

JB: Right.

411

00:21:45,676 --> 00:21:45,966

Right.

412

00:21:45,991 --> 00:21:50,301

Tali: and sit me down, you know,

but I guess I wasn't ready,

413

00:21:50,311 --> 00:21:51,661

but he did try really hard.

414

00:21:51,681 --> 00:21:55,101

And kind of like what you're

saying, we just didn't have.

415

00:21:55,366 --> 00:21:59,336

Anybody in our personal life who

we could go to to ask questions.

416

00:21:59,356 --> 00:22:01,486

I think that would have made

a huge difference for me

417

00:22:01,486 --> 00:22:03,716

personally, but we had nobody.

418

00:22:03,746 --> 00:22:06,986

It was all, all of our

learning was from a distance.

419

00:22:07,306 --> 00:22:09,106

There was no Bitcoin meetup here.

420

00:22:09,106 --> 00:22:09,576

That was

421

00:22:09,726 --> 00:22:11,306

JB: You started your meetup, right?

422

00:22:11,316 --> 00:22:12,006

That's right.

423

00:22:12,276 --> 00:22:13,296

Tali: Yeah, we started it.

424

00:22:13,326 --> 00:22:14,626

Our group is very small.

425

00:22:14,626 --> 00:22:18,826

We are still struggling

to find local Bitcoiners.

426

00:22:18,826 --> 00:22:21,906

I would say almost every single

person who's in our meetup

427

00:22:21,906 --> 00:22:24,216

right now, we met in Nashville.

428

00:22:25,586 --> 00:22:29,816

We would be in Nashville, milling around

and we were introducing, , where we're

429

00:22:29,816 --> 00:22:32,026

from and we'll say we're from Louisville.

430

00:22:32,046 --> 00:22:32,856

They're like, no way.

431

00:22:32,916 --> 00:22:33,836

We're from Louisville.

432

00:22:33,976 --> 00:22:34,466

What?

433

00:22:34,896 --> 00:22:35,606

Where are you?

434

00:22:35,606 --> 00:22:37,446

And then we'll find out

that we're really close.

435

00:22:37,476 --> 00:22:41,779

And then when we started the meetup,

we were able to get together, but I

436

00:22:41,779 --> 00:22:45,594

think I met almost every single person,

except for one person Bitcoin Park.

437

00:22:45,819 --> 00:22:46,219

JB: yeah.

438

00:22:46,219 --> 00:22:47,722

I love Bitcoin Park.

439

00:22:47,732 --> 00:22:52,799

And that was a huge, that was a huge,

turning point for me is being there

440

00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:55,959

and actually meeting the people that

are working in the Bitcoin space and

441

00:22:55,959 --> 00:22:59,649

just seeing that really the content

of their character., it's amazing.

442

00:22:59,927 --> 00:23:03,017

being around other Bitcoiners and

particularly at our grassroots where

443

00:23:03,017 --> 00:23:06,937

the meetup organizers meet in that

Bitcoin park with Rod and Matt and now

444

00:23:06,947 --> 00:23:09,337

Harry, that is really a special place.

445

00:23:09,597 --> 00:23:14,950

And, coming with my interest in health

and nutrition and looking at Western

446

00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,290

medicine through a different lens.

447

00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:19,030

When I got there, everybody

else was already doing that.

448

00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:20,740

They were like, yeah,

okay, yeah, we eat healthy.

449

00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,840

And I was like, wow, these people

already, they know, this is this kind

450

00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,430

of incorporated into their lifestyle.

451

00:23:25,460 --> 00:23:29,073

And I think my favorite thing

about those people and often

452

00:23:29,073 --> 00:23:30,243

the people that run meetups.

453

00:23:30,627 --> 00:23:33,917

Every single person that I've met that

runs the meetup is big winners like to

454

00:23:33,917 --> 00:23:37,837

know how things work Like they're going

to get to things on a very granular

455

00:23:37,947 --> 00:23:41,547

Level and look like they're going

to go molecule deep and they want to

456

00:23:41,547 --> 00:23:45,840

understand how it works from the ground

up And also just really well intentioned

457

00:23:46,290 --> 00:23:51,007

people in the space And I think if

people are coming into the Bitcoin space

458

00:23:51,007 --> 00:23:55,267

or have questions about Bitcoin Even if

they haven't bought any Bitcoin yet, I

459

00:23:55,267 --> 00:23:58,737

think one of the best things you can do

is just start circulating in the local

460

00:23:59,157 --> 00:24:03,257

meetups in the local communities and

just meet the people that are working,

461

00:24:03,307 --> 00:24:06,927

, the developers that are working on the

projects or the people that are building

462

00:24:06,937 --> 00:24:13,057

apps on lightning or, , doing things to

create a circular economy and just let.

463

00:24:13,343 --> 00:24:15,863

Yourself be the judge of the

content of their character

464

00:24:15,863 --> 00:24:17,023

and how you feel around them.

465

00:24:17,443 --> 00:24:19,533

, I feel really good

around other Bitcoiners.

466

00:24:19,593 --> 00:24:25,683

I can sit in the corner and not say

a word and just listen to, you know,

467

00:24:25,683 --> 00:24:28,723

what other people saying in the, in

the room and be completely , content.

468

00:24:28,763 --> 00:24:31,523

And, you know, there's people who

disagree in the Bitcoin community,

469

00:24:31,543 --> 00:24:34,113

but they can handle that and they

can talk about that in a way that's

470

00:24:34,113 --> 00:24:38,469

constructive and, give each other a

good ribbing and spicy conversation

471

00:24:38,469 --> 00:24:40,209

and it's okay, and I think that.

472

00:24:40,510 --> 00:24:43,110

, when people are speaking their truth

and living in their truth, they're not

473

00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:46,530

threatened in a time when there's been

so much these past few years, that's

474

00:24:46,540 --> 00:24:51,367

polarizing and so much that divisive,

it's really nice to be at conferences

475

00:24:51,517 --> 00:24:55,307

and places around people where they can

have a civil disagreement and really

476

00:24:55,737 --> 00:24:59,067

have constructive conversation about it

and you know that both sides are well

477

00:24:59,067 --> 00:25:02,530

intentioned, they're trying to, build

something, , to support their communities

478

00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,892

and help undo some of the damage of the

inflationary environment that we're in.

479

00:25:07,410 --> 00:25:08,640

Tali: Yeah, definitely.

480

00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:09,210

, okay.

481

00:25:09,220 --> 00:25:13,660

So thinking back to those first few

months, let's say, , during COVID

482

00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:18,290

when you were first really diving in

deep into, , what Bitcoin is and how

483

00:25:18,290 --> 00:25:22,040

it works and everything, what was

your biggest question or the biggest

484

00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:28,100

obstacle you had to get over to be

convinced that Bitcoin is real and is

485

00:25:28,100 --> 00:25:29,440

something you should pay attention to?

486

00:25:29,965 --> 00:25:32,195

JB: Ooh, that's a really good question.

487

00:25:32,495 --> 00:25:32,715

Um,

488

00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:34,320

I have to think on that.

489

00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:39,350

I can tell you one that I still

struggle with right now is, Like I was

490

00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:42,540

saying, stakeholders like to understand

things I think on a granular level.

491

00:25:42,910 --> 00:25:44,090

I am not a developer.

492

00:25:44,090 --> 00:25:47,020

I am not a technically enabled person.

493

00:25:47,030 --> 00:25:50,760

, I can use a smartphone intuitively and

I can type pretty quickly, but that's

494

00:25:51,510 --> 00:25:53,060

how all you're going to get out of me.

495

00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,030

And so I think like when things

come up like with the ordinal or

496

00:25:57,030 --> 00:25:58,590

there's network congestion and.

497

00:25:58,990 --> 00:26:01,040

You know, in medicine, I

can go back to the books.

498

00:26:01,070 --> 00:26:02,620

I can go back to gen chem.

499

00:26:02,930 --> 00:26:06,415

I can read journal articles

and I have the, basic science

500

00:26:06,445 --> 00:26:07,795

understanding . In Bitcoin.

501

00:26:07,795 --> 00:26:08,785

I don't have that.

502

00:26:08,865 --> 00:26:11,725

And so I have to look to other people

like our meetup organizer, Craig.

503

00:26:11,735 --> 00:26:14,579

I have to look to the tech

people to translate for me.

504

00:26:14,579 --> 00:26:15,499

What's happening?

505

00:26:15,619 --> 00:26:16,929

, you know, the box size words.

506

00:26:16,929 --> 00:26:20,409

I understood pretty well, but I

think understanding how lightning

507

00:26:20,409 --> 00:26:24,339

network is going to scale and

looking at the hurdles that the.

508

00:26:24,744 --> 00:26:26,334

Network it needs to overcome.

509

00:26:26,374 --> 00:26:30,844

I think I'm intimidated by that,

because I can't look at the code or say,

510

00:26:30,844 --> 00:26:32,684

okay, I understand this at this level.

511

00:26:32,684 --> 00:26:38,184

And so I think trusting that those

problems and that what they're trying

512

00:26:38,184 --> 00:26:42,244

to do to make Bitcoin more accessible

for daily use and uncomplicatable

513

00:26:42,594 --> 00:26:47,195

to borrow a word, I think trusting

that, that that's real, that we can

514

00:26:47,205 --> 00:26:52,535

do that and that those problems exist,

that they will be solved, I think is.

515

00:26:52,863 --> 00:26:56,233

, I'm much more comfortable with now

that I've spent time around people

516

00:26:56,233 --> 00:27:00,243

that code and do the developing

and I can see how they think and

517

00:27:00,243 --> 00:27:01,893

have more discussions about that.

518

00:27:01,893 --> 00:27:03,043

So, I think really.

519

00:27:04,003 --> 00:27:06,753

For me, it was getting past the

fact that I don't understand

520

00:27:06,753 --> 00:27:08,643

the technical level of it.

521

00:27:09,203 --> 00:27:13,233

And I'm, I'm used to having a nuts and

bolts understanding of things that I.

522

00:27:13,893 --> 00:27:15,133

Invest into that amount.

523

00:27:16,068 --> 00:27:17,878

Or I thought I did, maybe I don't know.

524

00:27:18,648 --> 00:27:21,658

I mean, that's that's the

whole whole gist of it.

525

00:27:21,668 --> 00:27:25,918

But at least at work in my professional

space, when I make really big life

526

00:27:25,918 --> 00:27:29,581

changing decisions, potentially for

me or my patients, I feel like I'm

527

00:27:29,581 --> 00:27:31,402

doing it from pretty solid ground.

528

00:27:31,646 --> 00:27:34,656

But the Bitcoin network's

been up for 14 years now.

529

00:27:34,966 --> 00:27:38,206

, and so I think that in and of

itself is a testament as we see

530

00:27:38,206 --> 00:27:41,046

other kind of challengers in

the crypto space come and go.

531

00:27:41,532 --> 00:27:42,522

that does a lot.

532

00:27:43,407 --> 00:27:46,307

Tali: Yeah, I definitely agree

with you about having to rely

533

00:27:46,307 --> 00:27:47,997

on somebody else to translate.

534

00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:53,590

The technology or the, , the debates for

you so , like you said, there are some

535

00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:57,020

things in life that we feel like we have

a pretty solid understanding and even

536

00:27:57,070 --> 00:28:01,730

if somebody introduces a new idea, we

have something to go on to evaluate it,

537

00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,407

whereas in Bitcoin space, it's so foreign

and like you said, if you go to, if you

538

00:28:07,407 --> 00:28:11,877

spend time with developers, actually,

I have been so impressed when I go to

539

00:28:11,877 --> 00:28:15,905

the BitDev meetings, how Long term,

they have to look down like they have

540

00:28:15,905 --> 00:28:22,285

to look 10, 20, 30 steps down the road

and have philosophical discussions and

541

00:28:22,285 --> 00:28:25,652

debates to code what they're coding now.

542

00:28:26,272 --> 00:28:30,192

So these are very intentional

people very smart, like you

543

00:28:30,192 --> 00:28:34,425

said, and nobody can predict the

future, but they do their best.

544

00:28:34,745 --> 00:28:40,085

And that's why those discussions where

they disagree are so, so valuable, because

545

00:28:40,295 --> 00:28:40,615

JB: Right.

546

00:28:40,735 --> 00:28:43,555

Tali: if you disagree, that means you're

looking at it from different points of

547

00:28:43,555 --> 00:28:49,329

view, and that's actually a richer and

better and more big picture way of looking

548

00:28:49,369 --> 00:28:54,572

at solving a problem or a potential

problem, trying to predict what the

549

00:28:54,672 --> 00:28:56,862

their code has to solve down the road.

550

00:28:56,902 --> 00:28:58,462

I mean, that's a big job.

551

00:28:58,782 --> 00:28:59,927

And the more All right.

552

00:29:00,157 --> 00:29:03,457

time you spend with these people,

the more, just feeling their energy.

553

00:29:03,457 --> 00:29:06,957

Like for me, feeling somebody's

energy in person is a big thing.

554

00:29:07,367 --> 00:29:10,967

And, uh, you learn to trust that

they all have good intentions.

555

00:29:11,539 --> 00:29:14,208

JB: Yeah, I hundred, a hundred

percent agree with that.

556

00:29:14,238 --> 00:29:16,903

And I think, I have fallen

out of step with doing that.

557

00:29:16,903 --> 00:29:20,583

Just I've switched jobs eventually and

have been working more and I haven't used

558

00:29:20,583 --> 00:29:24,943

to drive to Nashville pretty much on a

monthly basis and was really keeping up

559

00:29:24,943 --> 00:29:29,036

with the current events in the Bitcoin

community and just was switching jobs.

560

00:29:29,036 --> 00:29:34,531

I haven't been doing that as much, but

definitely coming to both the Atlanta

561

00:29:34,531 --> 00:29:38,417

conference, the tab conference, and

then, , grassroots is refreshing on that.

562

00:29:38,652 --> 00:29:42,492

And given, you know, back my

conviction, not that it was lost, but

563

00:29:42,492 --> 00:29:44,092

it was just kind of quiet for a bit.

564

00:29:44,122 --> 00:29:45,202

I was like, oh, man.

565

00:29:45,732 --> 00:29:48,432

I think Bitcoin has just become

so integrated into my life.

566

00:29:48,452 --> 00:29:51,172

You know, when you're first into it,

you're kind of looking at the price and

567

00:29:51,172 --> 00:29:55,752

you're talking about market cycles And

then you just kind of come to, as you

568

00:29:55,752 --> 00:30:00,022

come to understand what it is and what

we're hoping it will do for us, you sort

569

00:30:00,022 --> 00:30:03,712

of thought, I don't, I can't remember the

last time I checked the price of Bitcoin.

570

00:30:04,102 --> 00:30:08,012

, I can't really remember the last time I

thought about another coin and people,

571

00:30:08,012 --> 00:30:09,132

you know, will ask me about other coins.

572

00:30:09,302 --> 00:30:09,912

I'm like I'm sorry.

573

00:30:09,912 --> 00:30:11,522

I just really can't even tell you.

574

00:30:11,522 --> 00:30:12,922

I don't even really have an opinion.

575

00:30:12,922 --> 00:30:14,422

I don't follow any of that.

576

00:30:14,452 --> 00:30:16,232

And it just sort of fades.

577

00:30:16,672 --> 00:30:20,202

, , I think my entire thinking about Bitcoin

has shifted in the past two years.

578

00:30:20,602 --> 00:30:23,465

And it's just sort of become

a almost way of life, but it's

579

00:30:23,465 --> 00:30:24,675

just there in the background.

580

00:30:25,124 --> 00:30:27,970

it's something that I, when

I came on this podcast, I was

581

00:30:27,970 --> 00:30:28,820

like, what am I going to say?

582

00:30:28,820 --> 00:30:29,790

That's not depressing.

583

00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:34,890

I don't want to say a bunch of

depressing stuff and that that is

584

00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:38,030

where I turn my attention at the end

of the day, like, when I want to reward

585

00:30:38,030 --> 00:30:39,700

myself, or I want to take a break.

586

00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:41,370

It's like, okay, let's

see what's going on.

587

00:30:41,380 --> 00:30:42,620

What are people building?

588

00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:48,230

What are the developers up to, ? Was

the spicy disagreement this week,

589

00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,976

you know, , and I think that that

is definitely been, a ray of a ray

590

00:30:52,976 --> 00:30:57,402

of light, in a time when things are

really uncertain in our country, , that

591

00:30:57,622 --> 00:30:59,192

it provides a lot of consistency.

592

00:30:59,690 --> 00:31:00,110

Tali: okay.

593

00:31:00,210 --> 00:31:03,860

So you went down the Bitcoin

rabbit hole during COVID.

594

00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,690

You've been in this space

fully committed now to Bitcoin

595

00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:10,843

specifically for about two years.

596

00:31:11,173 --> 00:31:15,413

So when you turn around and look

at the past two years, how do you

597

00:31:15,413 --> 00:31:19,363

see your life has changed because

of your involvement in Bitcoin?

598

00:31:20,273 --> 00:31:23,283

JB: Oh, my gosh, girl, I burned it down.

599

00:31:24,243 --> 00:31:24,963

No, I'm just kidding.

600

00:31:25,423 --> 00:31:28,403

, I think I, I look at things

very different politically.

601

00:31:29,123 --> 00:31:31,953

I kind of always I'm sort of back

to where I started with, which

602

00:31:31,953 --> 00:31:33,913

is like, I didn't really want

anything to do with politicians.

603

00:31:33,913 --> 00:31:37,813

They always seem kind of off and weird

to me and I still have that conviction.

604

00:31:38,330 --> 00:31:42,460

But I do pay attention more to what's

being said in the news and at least what

605

00:31:42,460 --> 00:31:44,520

people are purporting your platform to be.

606

00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,647

So I'm probably more of a

political person., so the question

607

00:31:47,647 --> 00:31:50,297

is, how is my life different,

like, how has it shaped my life?

608

00:31:50,677 --> 00:31:52,207

I definitely invest differently.

609

00:31:52,447 --> 00:31:56,447

, I think I have found a financial

advisor that is Bitcoin friendly.

610

00:31:56,697 --> 00:32:00,357

I have not been keeping up my

side of communication there.

611

00:32:00,357 --> 00:32:01,907

I need to check back in with him.

612

00:32:02,457 --> 00:32:03,857

, I did the whole thing.

613

00:32:03,867 --> 00:32:07,387

I did the buy a whole coin, lose a

whole coin, trusting it to a friend.

614

00:32:07,767 --> 00:32:10,097

You know, initially I was looking

at other coins because I didn't

615

00:32:10,097 --> 00:32:11,657

understand what Bitcoin was.

616

00:32:12,052 --> 00:32:13,462

Went through that whole thing.

617

00:32:13,502 --> 00:32:17,618

So all the stories, had the old

car that you keep , don't, so you

618

00:32:17,618 --> 00:32:20,318

don't have to have car payments

so you can buy more of a Bitcoin.

619

00:32:21,218 --> 00:32:22,868

Every, every kind of stereotype.

620

00:32:22,868 --> 00:32:26,108

I definitely have, have lived

that and, you know, had the big

621

00:32:26,158 --> 00:32:28,598

financial loss and doing dumb things.

622

00:32:28,598 --> 00:32:32,298

And so now I would say I use that a

lot more understanding that my dollars

623

00:32:32,298 --> 00:32:33,198

later are going to be worthless.

624

00:32:33,988 --> 00:32:36,268

So I finance things

where I might not have.

625

00:32:36,318 --> 00:32:39,338

I was raised in a family where debt

was this really bad evil thing.

626

00:32:39,708 --> 00:32:44,818

, I really gained a lot of insight

into, , scarcity mindset and having

627

00:32:44,818 --> 00:32:46,868

that mindset around wealth and money.

628

00:32:46,868 --> 00:32:50,568

That's definitely something that I

think is inherited in our family.

629

00:32:51,008 --> 00:32:54,428

Really coming to terms with shame

around money or shame with having

630

00:32:54,428 --> 00:32:56,088

something or having wealth.

631

00:32:56,328 --> 00:32:59,238

That's been really interesting journey

that I don't think is over yet.

632

00:32:59,943 --> 00:33:02,903

And just looking at longer term things.

633

00:33:02,913 --> 00:33:06,190

So, like, I was talking with you

before about looking at something

634

00:33:06,190 --> 00:33:10,920

like, , a car wash for definitely not

passive income, but income where that

635

00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,590

can be, , a type of income that can

be generating, , cash flow, maybe,

636

00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:17,160

like, while I'm working another job.

637

00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,707

And so, , just looking at different

types of investments, And just, yeah, I

638

00:33:21,717 --> 00:33:23,227

mean, just paying a lot more attention.

639

00:33:23,267 --> 00:33:24,017

They have that thing.

640

00:33:24,017 --> 00:33:27,587

There's people who understand economics

and then there's people who work work

641

00:33:27,587 --> 00:33:29,497

for them, you know, if you don't.

642

00:33:29,527 --> 00:33:34,047

And so I think my focus now is really

trying to catch up on understanding

643

00:33:34,347 --> 00:33:38,529

economics and finance, but also

just feeling really a drift on,

644

00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,700

How to invest with the Bitcoin

being part of, there's a lot of

645

00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:47,040

people that just are like all

Bitcoin and like they own a house.

646

00:33:47,090 --> 00:33:50,900

They are kind of set in certain

ways and they just go all Bitcoin.

647

00:33:50,910 --> 00:33:54,253

I have friends that have pulled

their entire retirement out, cashed

648

00:33:54,253 --> 00:33:55,803

it out and put it in Bitcoin.

649

00:33:55,803 --> 00:34:00,653

It's definitely not financial advice

for me, but, , so I think trying to

650

00:34:00,653 --> 00:34:05,911

figure out where that is for me in

terms of retirement And how, because

651

00:34:06,091 --> 00:34:10,331

like you said, it's a very long

term, people have a very long term

652

00:34:10,341 --> 00:34:12,281

outlook that are investing in Bitcoin.

653

00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,929

And so, to, I don't think I was

very good at visualizing what I

654

00:34:16,929 --> 00:34:18,779

wanted that to look like before.

655

00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:22,239

So answering those questions

has become more concrete.

656

00:34:22,543 --> 00:34:23,612

For me, for sure.

657

00:34:23,842 --> 00:34:29,737

And then also I had some unpopular

beliefs during COVID, tend to take

658

00:34:29,737 --> 00:34:35,797

off both sides, so I think for me,

it was a very lonely time, my family

659

00:34:35,797 --> 00:34:38,447

and I don't see eye to eye on things

and we're always going to talk to

660

00:34:38,447 --> 00:34:39,797

each other and be around each other.

661

00:34:40,248 --> 00:34:41,408

, but just definitely.

662

00:34:41,893 --> 00:34:45,958

I was an outlier in my work

environment, my home environment.

663

00:34:45,967 --> 00:34:48,868

We had a personal tragedy

in my ex partner's family.

664

00:34:48,868 --> 00:34:51,485

That really took a lot of our

time and was very stressful.

665

00:34:51,485 --> 00:34:53,344

And we ultimately ended up separating.

666

00:34:53,355 --> 00:34:55,415

And so there was kind of this void.

667

00:34:55,851 --> 00:34:59,872

Where I was adrift from the community

I had been in before, and I was always

668

00:34:59,872 --> 00:35:03,122

kind of this fringe health person that

people were like, oh, that's so cute.

669

00:35:03,652 --> 00:35:07,842

And then suddenly I was this fringe

health person, and it was like,

670

00:35:07,852 --> 00:35:09,812

wow, there's a lot of space here.

671

00:35:10,302 --> 00:35:14,792

But I will say that that space is

being filled with things that I think

672

00:35:14,792 --> 00:35:19,422

fit me a lot better as a person, and

I've come to know myself a lot better.

673

00:35:19,422 --> 00:35:22,952

I think people found out who they were the

past couple years and what they're willing

674

00:35:22,952 --> 00:35:24,622

to compromise on and what they're not.

675

00:35:24,995 --> 00:35:28,655

And I have a lot of conviction, and

I don't think I've ever had that much

676

00:35:28,665 --> 00:35:30,385

conviction about anything in my life.

677

00:35:30,495 --> 00:35:34,446

, when people ask me about Bitcoin,

I'm just like, tell me a better idea.

678

00:35:34,606 --> 00:35:38,026

, I don't have any better ideas, , and I

think some of the smartest people in

679

00:35:38,026 --> 00:35:41,876

the world are working on Bitcoin right

now, in terms of the development, I

680

00:35:41,876 --> 00:35:45,426

definitely try to get quiet and listen

when they're in the room talking and

681

00:35:45,466 --> 00:35:47,196

learn as much as I can from them.

682

00:35:47,476 --> 00:35:50,836

And I think Bitcoiners are the

type of people that if they saw

683

00:35:50,836 --> 00:35:52,316

a better idea, they would say so.

684

00:35:52,776 --> 00:35:55,036

Or they would entertain in

a discussion or a debate.

685

00:35:55,086 --> 00:35:58,407

And so far in the past decade or

more, that really hasn't happened.

686

00:35:58,757 --> 00:36:02,387

Tali: I want to circle back and ask

you a question about something you

687

00:36:02,387 --> 00:36:04,467

just said that I find very fascinating.

688

00:36:04,558 --> 00:36:10,108

You mentioned that your family

don't go into financing of any kind.

689

00:36:10,378 --> 00:36:11,318

Did I catch that right?

690

00:36:11,338 --> 00:36:11,588

Okay.

691

00:36:11,788 --> 00:36:17,078

And then you also mentioned that you are

trying to reverse a scarcity mindset.

692

00:36:17,408 --> 00:36:21,508

So I'm just wondering how you tie

those two things to Bitcoin and how

693

00:36:21,508 --> 00:36:23,138

Bitcoin is helping specifically.

694

00:36:23,552 --> 00:36:25,262

JB: yeah, that's a, , a

really good question.

695

00:36:25,262 --> 00:36:27,792

So, yes, my parents, I love them dearly.

696

00:36:27,792 --> 00:36:31,062

They're from a very hard working

community in upstate New York, and they

697

00:36:31,062 --> 00:36:35,462

kind of have that, like, you're born,

you pay taxes, you die attitude and

698

00:36:35,462 --> 00:36:37,602

your value really comes from your job.

699

00:36:37,932 --> 00:36:41,732

and they definitely have that kind of

mindset, like, if you make money, or

700

00:36:41,732 --> 00:36:44,972

if you earn a lot of money, you must

have taken something from someone.

701

00:36:45,175 --> 00:36:50,370

so I think for me, there was a profound

sense of guilt, and this is why I say I

702

00:36:50,370 --> 00:36:54,760

do have respect for traders, because if

you have any sort of subconscious thing,

703

00:36:54,760 --> 00:37:00,247

or, , scarcity mindset, with that, it's

going to find you in your subconscious

704

00:37:00,287 --> 00:37:05,557

when you're interacting with money on such

a direct level, and it, it came for me,

705

00:37:05,567 --> 00:37:07,777

, if I made money trading, I felt guilty.

706

00:37:07,777 --> 00:37:09,187

I felt like I had to give it back.

707

00:37:09,702 --> 00:37:12,312

and that's something that

I still rest wrestle with.

708

00:37:12,589 --> 00:37:14,419

I hope that's answering your question.

709

00:37:14,909 --> 00:37:19,099

, I think Bitcoin helps with that because

Bitcoin forces you to look at things

710

00:37:19,099 --> 00:37:24,429

on such a higher timeline, such a, , a

longer time, like 5 to 10 years, and

711

00:37:24,733 --> 00:37:29,333

it forces you to really be honest

with yourself about what's going on.

712

00:37:29,753 --> 00:37:32,393

On in the world, when people learn

about Bitcoin, one of the most

713

00:37:32,393 --> 00:37:35,983

important things is the education

about the financial system.

714

00:37:36,493 --> 00:37:38,103

I always say there's two types of people.

715

00:37:38,763 --> 00:37:42,503

If you think everything's fine and,

and going on well with the government,

716

00:37:42,503 --> 00:37:43,993

you probably don't want to talk to me.

717

00:37:44,593 --> 00:37:48,723

If you think that , maybe some things

could be better, or you think that

718

00:37:48,723 --> 00:37:52,113

maybe they don't always have your

best interest at heart that's probably

719

00:37:52,213 --> 00:37:54,603

the person that I'll invest my time.

720

00:37:54,773 --> 00:37:58,946

Talking with, , and so I think

Bitcoin and needing to do something

721

00:37:58,946 --> 00:38:03,017

about we all have to figure out in

this environment as we move into

722

00:38:03,017 --> 00:38:07,197

this post COVID world, lots of money

printing, our dollars being devalued.

723

00:38:07,882 --> 00:38:10,482

We want to take care of our

families, our neighbors, our homes.

724

00:38:10,862 --> 00:38:12,462

We have to figure out how

we're going to do that.

725

00:38:12,462 --> 00:38:16,432

And Bitcoin forces us to one, be

honest every day, because you're doing

726

00:38:16,432 --> 00:38:18,442

this thing that's contrarian, right?

727

00:38:18,482 --> 00:38:20,302

And you're doing it with your

money and your livelihood.

728

00:38:20,826 --> 00:38:24,916

I personally, I view, Bitcoin for me,

it's very, it's almost very divine.

729

00:38:24,916 --> 00:38:28,836

It's like this almost like

divine intervention and it's very

730

00:38:28,886 --> 00:38:30,596

equal in how it treats people.

731

00:38:31,006 --> 00:38:34,636

, your money is treated the same

on the Bitcoin blockchain as say,

732

00:38:34,636 --> 00:38:36,342

like Elon Musk's money would be.

733

00:38:36,582 --> 00:38:38,397

and so it's very fair.

734

00:38:38,607 --> 00:38:40,733

I think , there is a spiritual community.

735

00:38:40,733 --> 00:38:43,153

There's a thank God

for Bitcoin conference.

736

00:38:43,263 --> 00:38:46,723

, I don't know if I have words for it

yet, but those are the people that I'm

737

00:38:46,743 --> 00:38:48,373

absolutely the most comfortable around.

738

00:38:48,724 --> 00:38:52,184

, I think for me, Bitcoin is an

equalizer in a lot of ways.

739

00:38:52,501 --> 00:38:55,199

And, I don't know how

that's going to unfold.

740

00:38:55,729 --> 00:38:59,242

but what I have seen is my, some of

my friends who are very, you know,

741

00:38:59,312 --> 00:39:01,662

cypher punk, it's a one or it's a zero.

742

00:39:02,792 --> 00:39:05,122

There's not a lot of space

for spirituality there.

743

00:39:05,592 --> 00:39:09,079

I think it's interesting that they

have, especially in the times that

744

00:39:09,079 --> 00:39:11,779

we're living in now, they have sort

of felt almost more aligned with

745

00:39:11,799 --> 00:39:15,579

people that have a spiritual belief

or any sort of religious conviction.

746

00:39:16,029 --> 00:39:18,129

I think there's an

interesting parallel there.

747

00:39:18,564 --> 00:39:22,934

To believe in something that strongly

and to be using it for the good of other

748

00:39:22,934 --> 00:39:25,124

people and with those kinds of intentions.

749

00:39:25,576 --> 00:39:28,936

Tali: Any last recommendations

for women who are still sitting

750

00:39:28,936 --> 00:39:30,056

on the fence about Bitcoin?

751

00:39:30,135 --> 00:39:33,095

, JB: I think I said this early on,

but I just want to emphasize, I can't

752

00:39:33,095 --> 00:39:38,352

emphasize it enough, going to your local

meetup or being around people that are

753

00:39:38,362 --> 00:39:40,572

local to you in the Bitcoin community.

754

00:39:40,832 --> 00:39:44,562

If you have the patience, the Creature

from Jekyll Island is actually a pretty

755

00:39:44,562 --> 00:39:48,195

good read, especially once you get

past the first couple of chapters, , it

756

00:39:48,195 --> 00:39:52,206

does a great job of providing, a

template or an example of what happens

757

00:39:52,206 --> 00:39:54,360

in cultures that fall to inflation.

758

00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,700

It's just such a good history book, and

it'll get you up to speed really quickly.

759

00:39:58,903 --> 00:40:00,913

I also am really excited

about Lynn Alden's book.

760

00:40:00,923 --> 00:40:02,613

I wish I could say I had read it.

761

00:40:03,183 --> 00:40:04,493

She's one of my favorite.

762

00:40:05,133 --> 00:40:07,633

I mean, there's so many people

out there that are so good.

763

00:40:07,693 --> 00:40:09,933

You could have a list 100 people long.

764

00:40:10,330 --> 00:40:13,046

trying to think of the name of

her book, but that's the thing

765

00:40:13,046 --> 00:40:14,496

that I'm most excited about.

766

00:40:14,866 --> 00:40:15,316

Um,

767

00:40:15,636 --> 00:40:16,096

Tali: money.

768

00:40:16,726 --> 00:40:17,496

JB: but thank you.

769

00:40:17,697 --> 00:40:22,331

, she has a way of presenting

complex subjects from a 50, 000

770

00:40:22,341 --> 00:40:24,981

foot view very quickly and easily.

771

00:40:24,981 --> 00:40:28,811

I think where you don't have to

necessarily have an econ degree to

772

00:40:28,811 --> 00:40:34,329

understand what she's saying, so I haven't

read broken money yet, but it's definitely

773

00:40:34,379 --> 00:40:40,276

on the list and I will, I feel confident

about recommending anything by Lynn Alden.

774

00:40:40,276 --> 00:40:41,086

And then I think just.

775

00:40:41,796 --> 00:40:45,816

Taking time to really understand

the trading that our senators are

776

00:40:45,816 --> 00:40:49,586

allowed to do, you know, that our, our

elected representatives are allowed

777

00:40:49,586 --> 00:40:51,216

to do the conflict of interest.

778

00:40:51,696 --> 00:40:55,016

There are certain social media

accounts that will follow their trade.

779

00:40:55,716 --> 00:40:59,906

And just understanding how senators

have to report that, if they have

780

00:40:59,906 --> 00:41:03,496

to report if they trade in the ETF,

understanding a little bit of the nuts

781

00:41:03,496 --> 00:41:08,096

and bolts of what moves the market

and what our elected representatives

782

00:41:08,096 --> 00:41:12,226

are accountable for disclosing, I

think will take people a long way.

783

00:41:12,424 --> 00:41:15,967

I had no idea about that before

I learned about Bitcoin, and

784

00:41:15,967 --> 00:41:17,487

then just practical things.

785

00:41:17,847 --> 00:41:20,964

The orange pill app is a

great way to meet people.

786

00:41:20,964 --> 00:41:23,154

I've definitely found that

to be worth the investment.

787

00:41:23,454 --> 00:41:27,574

and then when people are looking

for their meetups, I wonder if

788

00:41:27,584 --> 00:41:29,154

you guys have noticed this too.

789

00:41:29,714 --> 00:41:32,714

the meetup search function in and

of itself is not very good, but

790

00:41:32,714 --> 00:41:36,204

if you Google the town that you're

in and then like Bitcoin meetup.

791

00:41:36,854 --> 00:41:39,874

I think tends to find our meetups faster.

792

00:41:40,014 --> 00:41:43,494

A lot of people have searched us

using the organic meetup search

793

00:41:43,494 --> 00:41:45,324

function and they don't find us.

794

00:41:45,664 --> 00:41:48,997

So, , I think just be sure to

look for a meetup in your area.

795

00:41:49,467 --> 00:41:54,347

and then considering going to a really

big meetup, like, Tennessee and, , Texas,

796

00:41:54,387 --> 00:41:55,947

that's such an experience, I think.

797

00:41:57,327 --> 00:41:58,927

Still blows my mind every time I go.

798

00:41:59,214 --> 00:42:01,534

, but yeah, I think those are things

that people can do to really

799

00:42:01,634 --> 00:42:02,724

get them oriented in the space.

800

00:42:02,764 --> 00:42:07,224

And also just buying a small amount

of Bitcoin, like 5 and practicing

801

00:42:07,244 --> 00:42:08,664

moving it to a hard wallet.

802

00:42:09,134 --> 00:42:12,144

even just getting a little bit

of skin in the game, your brain

803

00:42:12,144 --> 00:42:16,104

will naturally gravitate and

pick it up almost by osmosis.

804

00:42:16,394 --> 00:42:18,947

Cause you know you have some

small investment that will.

805

00:42:19,129 --> 00:42:21,349

A lot of people say, Oh, I

looked at that so many times.

806

00:42:21,839 --> 00:42:25,069

And so I think if people just buy a small

amount, your brain will automatically

807

00:42:25,069 --> 00:42:27,249

commit you more to reading about Bitcoin.

808

00:42:27,874 --> 00:42:29,424

Tali: Great, great suggestions.

809

00:42:29,634 --> 00:42:30,714

so meetup.

810

00:42:30,734 --> 00:42:33,884

com I have found to be slightly

frustrating in looking up

811

00:42:33,884 --> 00:42:35,114

groups, just like you said.

812

00:42:35,434 --> 00:42:39,834

One caveat I want to just mention

is there are a lot of crypto...

813

00:42:40,504 --> 00:42:43,064

Meetups that are listed under Bitcoin.

814

00:42:43,094 --> 00:42:47,554

So just make sure that when you're reading

the description, it says Bitcoin only.

815

00:42:47,604 --> 00:42:50,604

Otherwise, it's likely that

they are just a trading club.

816

00:42:51,202 --> 00:42:51,572

JB: right.

817

00:42:51,602 --> 00:42:52,362

I get hesitant.

818

00:42:52,362 --> 00:42:54,622

I don't want to encourage people to trade.

819

00:42:54,632 --> 00:42:58,382

I could do a whole nother podcast with

you about dumb things JB has done.

820

00:42:59,996 --> 00:43:00,616

, , for sure.

821

00:43:00,616 --> 00:43:03,166

Yeah, I think that I think the

meetups are a great place to

822

00:43:03,166 --> 00:43:05,046

get specific questions answered.

823

00:43:05,264 --> 00:43:07,391

like you said, have been

barriers for people.

824

00:43:07,592 --> 00:43:11,112

In a very supportive environment, I

would be shocked if someone went to

825

00:43:11,112 --> 00:43:14,129

a meet up and people were dismissive

or didn't answer their questions

826

00:43:14,434 --> 00:43:15,954

. Tali: thank you for sharing your stories.

827

00:43:15,964 --> 00:43:18,914

Thank you for sharing all of

your experiences, even the

828

00:43:18,944 --> 00:43:20,104

mistakes that you've made.

829

00:43:20,104 --> 00:43:22,974

I think they, they made you

who you are today and they

830

00:43:22,984 --> 00:43:24,354

prepped you for this moment.

831

00:43:24,354 --> 00:43:24,724

So

832

00:43:25,674 --> 00:43:25,784

JB: for

833

00:43:25,784 --> 00:43:26,234

sure.

834

00:43:26,284 --> 00:43:28,004

Yeah, I'm making better choices.

835

00:43:28,454 --> 00:43:29,724

Yes, you can ask my friends.

836

00:43:29,724 --> 00:43:30,924

I'm making better choices.

837

00:43:30,924 --> 00:43:31,334

Now.

838

00:43:31,364 --> 00:43:32,064

Definitely.

839

00:43:32,230 --> 00:43:35,938

I think good things have come into my

life since going down the rabbit hole.

840

00:43:35,978 --> 00:43:37,118

So I'm very grateful.

841

00:43:38,556 --> 00:43:41,856

Tali: Thanks for joining us today . If

the discussion with our guests

842

00:43:41,906 --> 00:43:45,366

resonated with you and you would

like to dive deeper into the world of

843

00:43:45,396 --> 00:43:49,676

Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the

Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.

844

00:43:50,096 --> 00:43:51,816

The meetup link is in the show notes.

845

00:43:52,246 --> 00:43:56,266

Also, if there are women in your life

whom you think would both enjoy and

846

00:43:56,286 --> 00:44:00,266

benefit from learning more about Bitcoin,

please share Orange Hatter with them.

847

00:44:00,926 --> 00:44:02,476

Until next time, bye!