In this episode, Bill Betts is joined by Jo Wallace, a passionate pet groomer, trainer, and advocate for lifelong learning in the grooming industry.

Jo reflects on her time at the Pet Pro Expo, sharing why events like these are so valuable – not just for learning new business strategies like lead generation and storytelling, but also for the community and connection they provide. She speaks about how one speaker in particular – Fanny – really stood out, and how storytelling can play a powerful role in building a strong business.

Jo also shares her personal journey – from volunteering at an animal rescue in Costa Rica, to leaving corporate life behind and retraining as a pet groomer. She explains how her background in HR and training now feeds into her grooming career, especially as she starts to offer more education and support to other groomers.

She’s also diving deeper into the world of cat grooming, and shares some helpful advice around the differences between cats and dogs – including how understanding feline behaviour is key to successful (and safe) cat grooms.

If you’ve ever felt unsure about the next steps in your business or are looking to get inspired, this episode will leave you feeling motivated and connected to the wider grooming world.

💬 Key Takeaways

• Pet Pro Expo created real connection. Jo shares how networking with other professionals helped her grow.
• Understanding cats is essential. Grooming cats isn’t the same as dogs – you need to know feline behaviour.
• Industry events are more than talks. They give you the space to think about the future of your business.
• Jo’s journey is inspiring. From animal rescue work in Costa Rica to becoming a groomer and trainer, she brings a unique perspective.
• Keep learning. Jo reminds us that education, reflection, and peer support are key to long-term success.
• Community makes a difference. You don’t have to grow your business alone – sharing ideas helps everyone.

As always, I'd like to thank the podcast sponsor, Lopay, the low-cost payment platform that helps you keep more of the money you earn!

You can find out more and sign up for Lopay here: https://merchant.lopay.app/ref/PETPASSION2500, where listeners of this podcast get £2500 of fee-free transactions!

And of course, if you feel like you could benefit from Bill's business programs for the Pet Grooming industry, visit our website: https://petpassiontoprofit.com/

Welcome to the Pet Grooming Business Podcast with me, Bill Betts, where we give practical business advice to help you grow your pet grooming business.

This podcast is sponsored by Low Pay, the low rate payment app that gives you more.

So without further ado, let's get going.

Hi.

Welcome, everyone.

Welcome to this next episode episode of the podcast.

And today we are joined by Joe.

Joe Wallace.

Welcome, Joe.

Hi.

Hi.

How are you?

All good.

You guess yourself.

We just come back from the Pet Pro Expo.

Did you enjoy the Pet Pro Expo?

Yeah, I loved it.

I thought it was a really fantastic event.

Well organized, great food.

Everyone remembers the food, don't they?

Met some lovely people.

Just.

Yeah, it's.

It was just so nice to be in a room full of people that wanted to learn that were in the same industry.

We're all in the same bow.

It just felt like one big community.

It was lovely.

Yeah.

I was gonna put you on the spot.

What were you kind of like your key takeaways from it?

What, what did you come away from the Expo thinking, right, I want to do this.

Oh, my God, there was so much.

I made so many notes, and I need to go through those notes and digest them.

So Robin's conversion rate, slash, how many leads do you need to produce, was quite interesting.

And I need to have maybe try and organize a chat with him about that because I don't think I'm going to get 91 people contact me a month for courses.

Maybe I will, maybe I won't.

I don't know, who knows?

But, yeah, I might have a chat with him about that.

And then I loved Fanny's talk.

Yeah.

And I loved how she captivated the audience and everyone went definitely silent.

You could hear a pin drop.

And her storytelling is amazing.

So I loved that.

And I loved the whole otter thing.

And if you want to know what that is, you'll have to join Bill's program because it's well worth it just for that.

So.

But, yeah, that was a really good analogy.

And definitely going to be working on being more author.

And I think just.

Overall, it just lifted my mood, put me in a good place.

As you know, haven't been in the best place the last few weeks.

And just little snippets from each speaker about pensions and finance and social media and the lot.

Really, it was just something from everyone.

It's really good to do these events, isn't it?

Because I sometimes feel as small business owners, we work constantly in our business and this.

These events kind of lift you out of your business, take you up, take you out and then make you start thinking about the bigger, the bigger picture rather than like the day to day, the day to day grind 100%.

Like we are all business, we love our pets and we love working with pets, but we are all business owners.

At the end of the day it can be, it can be tricky to do that because you know, you get day to day problems that suck you into being away from your sort of creative time, I would call it.

And those types of times for me is when normally when I'm on holiday, when I've got free time to think and I'm like, oh, I can do all these amazing things.

But yeah, but then you just forget the bits that you should really be focusing on, like the financial aspects and how much you need to do social media, but also the quality of it.

And yeah, you need time aside to do that stuff every week.

And that would be a little goal I think for me to take away from that.

That's been.

Yeah, and we don't get.

We haven't.

That's the first sort of businessy thing I've been to other than the IPET event, which was kind of the similar sort of focus with some areas.

And yeah, it was just really good.

And I can tell like myself included and a lot of other people there will benefit from that day.

Yeah.

So tell us a little bit about, about what you do.

Obviously you're a pet groomer, but how long have you been pet grooming for and what else do you offer?

So I have been in the industry almost 10 years, so next year will be my 10th year.

And I used to work in HR and training so I kind of like the people development side of it.

But I didn't really like the absent sickness, disciplinary, you know, all of that stuff kind of drags you down a little bit and makes you hate people.

And so I was like, apart from animal people, obviously I love those, but you just want to like move yourself out of that.

And so I was made redundant, had a year off.

I was a bit poorly for a bit as well.

But the good thing that come out of that was I went to Costa Rica for five weeks and I worked in an animal rescue.

So I was working with sloths, monkeys.

There was tarantulas there, there was birds, just like all these different animals and it was just such an amazing experience.

We pretty much slept in this hut thing outside, like this sort of, I don't know what you call it, like a concrete building with no roof.

It was freezing at nighttime.

There was no hot water.

So this is the girl that's come from suits and stilettos and makeup every day from the business world into, right, let's just go and see what the world is like sort of thing.

And it's a real eye opener.

It changed me as a person forever.

And if you haven't done anything like that, I highly suggest that you do as an animal person.

What were you doing with the, what were you doing with the sloths and the monkeys and the.

Well, we built, we would build enclosures, so like metal enclosures and do enrichment for them.

So it made me learn a lot about.

Animals don't just need food and water, they need stimulation, which was really interesting.

We would be feeding them every day, so chopping up all of their food, putting it into bowls, taking it all around the.

Taking it all around the camps site thing.

They had pigs and goats there as well.

And the goat was.

Well, everyone was scared of him apart from me.

I used to go up to him and just give him his food and he would give me like a little headbutt and.

But now thinking about it, I'm surprised I didn't get like rammed because he was a bit, you know, feisty.

Bit feisty and a bit, am I allowed to say randy on this?

I don't really.

Around the old goat, around the old coat.

But he loved me, so it was fine.

It was fine.

Yeah.

And just looking after him.

So also we had some baby opossums, which are like little opossum things, possums or whatever.

And we had to get up on a two hour schedule through the night and hand feed them.

Yeah, just mucking out and cleaning and getting up early and just loved the whole thing.

So just building a real connection with the, with the animals then.

Yeah, yeah, totally there for the animals.

So.

Yeah, but that's where it all started.

So I came back and I was like, what can I do?

So I got into dog walking, which I really enjoyed.

And it was just so nice to be out of an office outside walking dogs, even in the rain because I've been to Costa Rica.

So the, the raining was just.

You were just getting wet and muddy every day.

So none of that bothered me.

In fact, I just loved it.

Then I moved to Norfolk and started to do dog walking here.

There wasn't many dog walkers around then, so the local people loved that.

Then I started boarding, so I got a license to board so I could look after other people's dogs in the house.

And then I got into grooming and I said I Don't want a salon.

I just want to work from home and I don't want to do training and I don't want to, you know, I just want to put her along part time.

And I moved in with my husband.

He didn't have anywhere for me to groom, so I went to the lady down the road, long story short, ended up buying a salon.

She retired, made a connection with Mandy Carr from the Scissor boutique.

So the kind of the connection that I've got with her there is she owned Designer Dog, she also owned Designer Pet.

She sold Designer Pet, the salon, to this lady who sold it to me.

So we sort of have a little connection going on there.

I renamed that, got another salon, started doing training, said I'd never groom cats.

Don't want to groom cats.

Heard so many horror stories about them.

They bite, they scratch.

I had two dogs, two cavaliers.

So I was like, I'm never working with cats.

My husband, Sorry I'm rattling on here.

It's just interesting.

I. I just see you, you've gone from.

I really didn't.

Didn't like the corporate life.

So, you know, you fortunately got me redundant.

Go out of your high heels and, and like the corporate way, and then had this amazing journey.

But then that, that kind of like you came back and then fell into dog grooming.

But you.

That business sort of brain, that business side of things really kicked in again, didn't it?

And you were saying, I don't want to say on, I don't want to do training, but you've.

You've kind of got into all of that.

I know.

I mean, yeah, it's a.

It's a difficult one because I, at the time of like, leaving the other job and, and everything, and I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia and arthritis.

And, you know, I was feeling a bit down about all of that and I was starting the menopause and I just felt like absolute, basically.

I didn't feel like I could even work and my body just hurt.

And I thought, you know what?

I just don't want none of this.

Like, it's.

I just want to be, like, at home with the doggies, like in my own little doggy bubble.

And I did the garden up and all these kind of things, and I had quite a relaxed life, which was lovely.

But then my ambition and I'm just that person like, well, what else, what else is there?

And can I do something else?

Can I help other people?

I've kind of always had that bit of helping people in me as well.

One of my jobs previously, I think you know this about me, but I was a life coach and a hypnotherapist, so I love telling that to my students now because they're like, are you hypnotizing me right this minute?

It's my eyes.

Look into my eyes.

Yeah, that's what I do to them.

I do look into my eyes.

THEY LAUGH I said, no, I wouldn't do that.

Or am I?

They like.

So, yeah.

So they find that quite fascinating.

But though I just think all the little things that I've done in my life and all the courses and the qualifications and the personal development that I've done have kind of led me to where I am now, and it's kind of pieced it all together.

And I can still work with people and help people because I've got that in a training capacity, and I can still work with animals because that's my bread and butter.

So I've kind of got the best parts of everything that I've done before, if that makes sense.

Yeah, he kind of turned everything on his head.

So you went from owning two dogs, not wanting a salon to having a salon, having staff, not wanting to do training, but now you're a training provider and you're doing cats, and I think you've got seven cats yourself.

I do have seven cats.

I absolutely do.

So as you.

As you know, because I will bore you constantly when I see you about this.

I do love my cats.

They bring me so much calm and peace and reward in my house.

And my house is my kind of like, sanctuary, if you like.

It's got all my cats here and we just chill.

This podcast is sponsored by Low Pay.

Low pay is half the price of sum up and Zettle, so you keep more of the money that you earn.

Rates start at 0.79.

So, yeah, so when I met my husband, he had a cat called Basil, and I had my dog because sadly, one of them passed away called Myla.

And the cat and the dog didn't get along.

So we separated them in the house, nearly ended our relationship because the cat and the dog didn't get along.

But we worked it out and this cat was just completely changed my views on cats.

He was so interactive and so loving, and he would sit around my neck every night like a scarf, cuddle like a baby, suck my hand like it was a dummy.

And I'm like, hang on a minute.

Cats aren't supposed to be like this, like.

So I thought, well, maybe I'll try cat grooming.

So I just started dog tutoring at the time.

So I thought, well, why not have a go?

And I just loved it.

And physically it's better for me because I got to a point with dog grooming where I couldn't even walk home from the salon.

My house was a minute away.

I was in so much pain.

That's now improved.

But physically it's a lot easier.

I find it a lot more calming.

There's no barking.

There's no, like, erraticness that you can sometimes get with dogs.

People say cats are unpredictable.

I don't think they are.

I think you know exactly what you're going to get when you meet a cat.

And it's about understanding the cat and their behavior and picking up on their stress cues and reading the cat.

Once you've done all of that, you know what you've got to manage.

You can do a little plan in your head.

Bob's your uncle, so Bob is my uncle, by the way.

Okay.

So at the moment you're mostly cat grooming and cat groomer trainer, aren't you?

You're not really.

I don't think you're doing any dog grooming anymore, are you?

Is it mostly.

Mostly, no.

I tend to do the difficult dogs at the salon because I can handle them well and I do dog grooming training.

So that's still quite busy at the salon.

I feel quite passionately about educating people on cats and how, how to understand them and how to work with them.

Yeah.

Whenever you, when I sprite, whenever I speak to dog groomers and say, have you considered cat grooming?

You always, you get quite a lot of pushback saying, oh, no, I can't do cats.

You know, cats are dangerous.

Cats are like everything kind of like you said when you, when you first introduce yourself, like, cats like me, cats will scratch me and stuff like that.

But we have that negative bias, don't we, where we always look at the.

The negatives.

Whereas you can show people, you can explain and help people to understand that actually not every cat's going to be like that.

And yeah, yeah.

So I look at it in two ways.

So we've got our indoor cats and our outdoor cats.

An outdoor cat, maybe possibly a general moggy.

They are going to have a different temperament to indoor cats because of the way they've been raised.

Whereas indoor cats are raised by being handled quite a lot.

They're lap cats.

They're used to being around humans.

They're used to perhaps being around other cats as well.

And those types of cats are in general the cats you're going to be grooming and also the well behaved ones.

So, yeah, I mean, it's a bit of a myth, I think, in terms of how cats behave.

And you know, I, I was the same.

I said I don't want to work with them.

And you see lots of pictures about groomers getting scratched and bitten, but I've been bitten more times by dogs than cats.

Fair enough.

I've been doing that a bit longer.

But if you've got all the, you do have to have like a, you know, a skill set to work with them that can be taught and you have to be in the right mindset, which was quite interesting at the weekend we were talking about mindset and how you need to be in the right place to run your business, to do your work or whatever.

And that's how you should be with cats.

You need to get yourself into the right headspace to deal with and be prepared to deal with what's in front of you.

I suppose any, I suppose any animal that you have in front of you, if you fear them, they're going to feed off that, aren't they?

They're going to understand that, know that and take advantage of it.

Yeah, they do, they do.

So it is a Marmite topic and I do like talking to dog grievers about this because you'll get a mixed reaction of oh, no, okay.

Oh no, they're good.

No, I don't like, I don't like cats.

Whereas like some cats, like Maine coons or ragdolls, they're very dog like, they act in a similar way to dogs and you can raise them like dogs as well.

Like you can teach them behaviors and, and everything or they're concerned about getting scratched and bitter, which is a general concern.

You just need to know how to deal with that.

And yeah, they're just, they just don't like them in general, which is fine.

You shouldn't be working with cats or animals that you don't like.

That just doesn't make any sense.

Yeah.

When you, when you, obviously when you train people to be cat groomers, are you looking for them to have any kind of period of time as a dog groomer does, do you.

Are there sort of transfer, transferable skills that a dog groomer can have that helps with cat grooming?

Yeah, for sure.

So I would say dog groomers have got quite a few skills that they can transfer over and adapt.

So firstly, is the de shedding element of it.

So we all understand how to de shed a dog's coat like a German shepherd or whatever else.

So we understand that technique and we understand about the hair and the skin and so on.

So if you enjoy doing D sheds, which I did like I do enjoy doing German shepherds and dogs of that nature, then you'll enjoy cat grooming because that's a similar thing.

And I enjoy my clipping.

I know a lot of dog groomers are all into their scissor work.

I do like scissor work as well, but I like clipping.

So I find that quite transferable skill to be able to use for.

From dog grooming to cat grooming.

Yeah, I suppose it's going to be like the ability to hold clippers, hold nails, trim nail trimmers, things like that is transferred, isn't it?

Oh, 100.

Like cutting cat's nails is much easier than doing dog's nails for sure.

It's so easy and it's a two minute job.

Whereas dogs can be, you know, you, they're big, you got or well, they can be small.

But yeah, getting them on the table doing their nails is, you know, it can be more like a 10 minute job sometimes.

Whereas with the cats I just get the owner to hold the cat and I go around and I pop all the paw pads out and trim the nails and it's quick as anything and all clear.

Yeah.

So yeah, they're all clear.

Yeah.

What, what we.

When, when people think about cat grooming, they sometimes think that they need to have more than one person when it comes to cat grooming.

You actually groom a lot of cats on your own, don't you, as a solo groomer?

Yeah, I do and that's how I teach as well.

So you can obviously work with someone when you're cat grooming if that's what you want to do.

Like there's no right or wrong and you can work on your own.

So you've got options.

You don't have to have a second person if you don't want a second person.

Some people just like it, they find it easier.

That's perhaps learned from a vet practice or whatever else.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

But if you're working on your own and you like working on your own and you're in your own home environment or salon or wherever you are and you can learn different holding methods, different.

I don't like saying restraints with cats because we don't obviously use restraints.

But when I say that, I mean Towels and blankets and such and such or stimulation or some other distraction, like there's things that you can do to make it a lot easier.

And the other thing that I feel quite passionately about is that every cat's trek differently.

So.

So when you're doing a cat you need to assess that cat and its needs and what it needs doing in terms of the groom specifically.

And a lot of people will be quite opinionated, oh no, you must do this or you must do that or use this.

But they don't understand the full process of what that person's been through with a cat.

So I see a lot of stuff online pushing backwards, oh, you should use this tool or that tool or no, don't use this or you're not qualified for that or whatever.

It is probably similar to what we were talking about at the weekend, like just be kind to people and you don't understand that particular circumstance.

Every cat needs something different.

If you're a professional, you should be able to use any blade for any circumstance on that cat.

And if you don't feel comfortable doing that, refer them.

So you know, that could be another case where you don't feel like you want.

You could work on your own.

Is this where you're sort of talking about maybe a cat needs like mats clipping out versus a full line trim and stuff like that and how.

I suppose people have their opinions based on what they're seeing online, like through photos, whereas, you know, actually managing the cat and speaking to the owner and seeing what they actually need and what they want.

Yeah, if you shouldn't do anything you don't feel comfortable with.

But if you have got a cat that's say like a 18 year old cat, skin and bones and it's matted to the skin like it's pelted, that can be incredibly complex to demat and take all the mats off with a blade.

You might need a 30 blade for that.

The skin is really thin and the cat is bony and old and it can be very tricky.

But I'm a professional cat groomer, I've spent a lot of money on my training.

I've got a lot of experience with clipping and animal handling, so I can do that.

But someone else might say, well that's a vet's job.

But if I'm happy to do it without cutting the cat and the customer wants me to, and the cat can't be put under for any reason so they can't go to the vets or whatever it is, then I will do it.

Because I can.

And it's your professional opinion, isn't it, at the time, in this.

In the circumstances that you have in front of you?

And I know Emma used to come home from days where she's had cats in.

In for grooming like that, where she said, like, it was like diffusing a bomb in a way.

The.

The level of.

The level of concentration as you're like, you know, stretch the skin, undo the mat.

Stretch the skin, undo the mat.

Picking through this cat's coat, like, inch by inch and unzipping it from its.

From its bats leaves you quite physically and mentally drained, doesn't it?

It does, and that is why we should charge appropriately for it, because it does take up a lot of concentration.

That might take me an hour to do or maybe longer, depending on the cat.

I might do it in split session if the cat's, you know, getting stressed or I just feel it appropriate.

So, yeah, it is.

It is very hard work in terms of the detail of it, which quite surprised me, actually, because I'm not massively a detail person.

But when I'm concentrating like that and working on the cat, I just get, like, zoned into it all.

Yeah.

And I think that it brings me calmness to do stuff like that.

So I don't.

If you.

If you're a panicky person and you're gonna be, like, hyperactive and loud and jerking around the cat and all that kind of stuff, then maybe it's not for you.

But personally, it makes me feel calm.

So.

So yeah, it.

There's, you know, another side of it.

You will see heavily pelted cats, and you've got to decide, can I do it first of all?

And if.

If in doubt, leave it out, as my mum says.

And I think.

I think that's okay to.

To do as well, isn't it, by.

It's okay to say no if it's beyond your level of expertise or beyond your level of confidence, you know, And I sometimes wonder if people feel like they should do this or they should be in a position where they can offer that, or they worry about turning.

Turning dogs and cats away when they're.

When it's a bit beyond them, but that's totally fine.

And it's probably better that you do turn it away to prevent any sort of, like, negativity around complaints and things going wrong.

And I think we find.

We often find it when we get complaints or negative reviews.

There's often a reason why we should have turned it away in the first place, and we just did That's a.

Really good lesson for people because that has definitely happened to me before where I've agreed to do things that I didn't really want to do because I didn't want to say no and it has backfired on me.

And it'll be that difficult customer that you've said yes to and then they're not happy and leave you a bad review or, you know, whatever it is.

But yeah, it, it's a good lesson.

Just go of the gut feeling of is, does this feel right?

Like try it on.

Does it feel right?

I feel uncomfortable.

If you feel uncomfortable, listen to yourself and don't do it.

I think people, if people want to get into the pit, we'll say pet grooming industry, they now do have sort of two, two, some, two choices, haven't they?

And I was going to ask you how the dog grooming courses compared to the cat grooming courses, you know, and what the similarities are and what the differences are around the two courses.

But if you're, if you're not a pet groomer at the moment and you're thinking about coming into the industry, I think there is now a choice to go down the pet, the dog grooming route.

The cat grooming route.

Oh yeah, for sure.

So I, I obviously do get dog groomers coming to me that wanna do the add on service or they wanna upskill their cat grooming services or whatever that might be.

But a lot of the people that I have that are students are cat people and they want to work with cats.

So they, they don't want to work with dogs at all.

So they're the other side of the Marmite situation where I'm saying, have you thought about that?

No, we don't do dogs.

We don't do dogs.

Or sometimes they've got cats and dogs as well, but they, they prefer the cats.

So I might get cat sitters who want to do add on services or people in general that just want to be a cat groomer.

And the way that that comes about is that they've tried to get a cat groomer or they've spent a lot of money and gone, hang on a minute, that was £400 to get my cap clipped off.

I wonder if I can make a business out of this.

So you've got those types of people and the people who say there's no one within an hour of me, I'm going to learn cat grooming.

And that's why I think dog groomers need to get on board with it because a lot of my clients will travel an hour, an hour and a half, because there's no one in their area.

And then a lot of my cat students will say the same thing.

So there's loads of scope for cat grooming and cats in general in the UK are on the rise.

Cat ownership.

So there's only 1 million less cats than there is dogs.

And more and more people are getting Maine coons or rag dolls or other indoor cats that are easier to manage.

They can go out to work.

We all work long hours and you can go out, you can leave your cats all day and you can't leave your dog all day.

So our lifestyles are changing as humans.

Cats aren't as bad as you think.

In fact, to mine, a Maine coon is like doing a dog, but more playful and easier and more money.

So it's not all about the money.

You do have to like cats to work with them.

But there are.

There's a lot of reasons why you should maybe even just give it a go and see if you like it.

And I suppose when we think about training as a cat groomer versus training as a dog groomer, dog grooming, there is puppy.

I don't know, it's.

Sorry to say, there is a lot more to dog grooming, isn't there?

And the fact that the bar thing, the styling, there's lots of different styles.

There's lots of different, like scissors, like curves and thinners and chompers and straights and stuff like that.

Whereas with cats, it's probably.

It's a lot more simpler, isn't it?

It's a lot more.

There are.

There's only a set number of things that you can do to a cat, whereas to a dog, you got styling the face, you got trimming the ears, you got.

You got, you know, trimming the legs, trimming the body.

Whereas a cat, it's either going to be a brush out, trim the mats out or clip off.

That's how I see it.

I'm quite like.

There's only probably three main things that you can do to a cat.

Brush it out, clip the mats out or.

Or do a line trim kind of thing.

That's how what we got.

I mean, that's.

Yeah, it's quite simplistic to look at it in that way, but I think the difference in teaching is the handling side of things.

Yeah.

Because dogs come in, they're happy to see you, you pretty much know what you're getting.

They hop on the table, you can pin them with.

Well, we have like hooks at the back of our walls.

So we'll put them on a neck straps.

They're nice and secure and pretty much you can just sort of.

They're quite happy, just sit there and let you groom them.

You can move them around nicely, I think one.

Oh, we'll get onto this in a minute.

But one thing I've learned is different ways to handle dogs from handling cats, which is quite interesting and not being so hands on with them.

So, yeah, it's more the handling techniques for cats and learning about the different types of cats.

And the brushing is relatively easy to pick up, as is nails, but the mat removal and the line clips.

And I do bath cats as well.

It's more about learning about the skin, how to handle them and learning that de matting technique, if you like.

So it.

Yeah, it is different.

It's a different skill set, it's much calmer.

So when I'm dog training, I might have three or four students in at a time.

We'll have groomers in, we'll have customers coming in and out.

There'll be five dogs in at one time or whatever.

Everyone's like crazy.

It's buzzy.

It's a really like.

It's a different atmosphere and I'm running around and doing all my stuff.

And then cats.

I might have one, two or maybe three students in one cat at a time.

And we learn that cat and then the cat goes and we get another cat and the door's locked and it's just a.

It's just different.

It is different, yeah.

This.

You just can't compare them.

But the.

Is the cat grooming course a similar length of time as the dog grooming course.

It'S a slightly less number of days.

So on the I pet certificate it's 10 days and on the IPET diploma it's 25 days.

And that just is down to how you learn.

So I always say to people, if you want to do the certificate, and perhaps they're already a dog groomer or they like to learn quickly or they're just very proactive and they can learn for themselves at home.

That's perfectly enough time.

If you haven't got as much confidence, maybe, or you need a lot more support or you like to learn things very thoroughly and in depth, then I say, like, the diploma is probably better for you.

So it's slightly less because dogs, like you say you've got a lot more to learn in terms of styling and practice, in terms of scissor work, and I do scissor cats as well.

I use scissors on them, but, yeah, not as.

It's not as precise as dog grooming.

I think that would be the difference.

Yeah.

But then I think you've, you've demonstrated there that actually there's, There may be not as much time put into the, like the, the, the, the styling, but the time is then put into the learning the cat and the handling and health conditions and stuff like that.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Like, cats get a lot more health conditions and they're really good at hiding them and they can get a lot of viruses and skin problems and, And a lot of fleas as well.

Like, we do see a lot of fleas on cars because owners don't see them because of fluffy hair.

So, yeah, it's different and.

Yeah, I mean, everyone's different.

So different trainers and salons will work with cats in different ways and they'll have a lot of cats in at once and work through them or they'll have more students or it's just finding a way that works for you.

And I, I always say when people are coming to me about courses, just make sure you get the right tutorial that you're happy with.

You know, it doesn't have to be me and, you know, ideally it would be, but, you know, they've got to be happy and I've got to be happy and we've got to be able to work together.

So have you ever.

Have you.

Have you come across.

Or do you use like, Emmy pet on cats?

So I have been asked this quite a lot.

Yeah.

And there are people that use me pet on cats and you can do it with the small brush head and it's not something I want to do, so I don't, I don't generally like the teeth brushing myself at the salon.

I train it, like I train a qualification in it, but I wouldn't choose to do it in my career, if that makes sense, and I did when I was a dog groomer because it was, you know, a good thing to do.

But cats.

Yeah, I can't.

Convinced.

I'm not convinced.

There's.

There are, there's different products on the market for cats as well, which I can't remember off the top of my head, but, yeah, people do it.

You can?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Anyone can.

I just wondered if you'd actually come across it, whether you've done it yourself.

I do know a couple of people.

I've.

I've been asked, do I clean the cat's teeth?

And I'm like, no, I don't clean my Own cat's teeth.

That's terrible, isn't it?

Groomers.

We're so bad.

I wait for the students to groom all of my animals.

Free labor.

Yeah, I know it's a bit cheeky, really, but what are we going to.

Go into about handling of cats?

I think you're going to say, like, about less is more or less hand.

I don't overhandle them.

Oh, don't touch them.

Yeah.

So when.

When I teach cat grooming, I say try not to touch the cat, which sounds really bizarre unless you're using your body to touch the cat.

So difficult to explain it, but without showing it.

But basically, the more you touch the cat and pull it around, the less cooperative it will be.

So if you can get away with not touching it as much as possible, unless you're touching it in a way that it likes so.

Or like fuss on the.

There's a bit between the nose that if you fuss that bit, it calms the cap down.

And there's ways to touch them in a.

In a good, positive way.

And using your body to kind of hug the cat into you gives you a bit of a restraint rather than just letting it wander around on the table.

But quite often I'll just let the cat sit on the table and groom it while it's sat there just doing its thing.

And I try not to touch, especially the back legs.

We know that dogs can get arthritis in their back legs, like German shepherds or whatever.

They lose the muscle in them and causes arthritis.

But cats, there's a really high percentage of cats over the age of seven that will get arthritis in their back legs.

And like I said before, they're good at masking pain.

So if you touch them in the wrong spot, then that could lead to a form of aggression, which is what we want to minimize.

So when I talk about handling, I'm talking about minimizing all the risk first so that we don't get aggression and we don't get bitten or scratched.

Come completely avoid it.

But.

The trousers need sorting out.

I'll just say, don't touch the cats like that.

Or I'll groom and they're just walking around and I'll be grooming them as they're walking around.

I try to.

Unless there's a tricky mat, I'll try to sort of not touch them.

Okay, sounds interesting.

I have to dig into that another time and see.

It'd be interesting to get a video of that, like how you manage it.

I will try and sort that out for you.

I find it really hard to take photos and video when I'm cat grooming, just because there's so much going on and you've got to, like, touch your phone and everything.

But from the weekend, I will be doing more videos, definitely.

Yeah.

Giving some tools and some tips about what to do there, won't you?

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Yeah.

I definitely think that's.

I've been toying with it for ages and I've been putting it off because it's not really.

I don't want to say a strength, because it could be a strength, but, you know, we've all got learning points to do, and I think videoing is one of my learning points and stretches as a person as well.

So that's next on the list.

Yeah.

It's always difficult to know, like, to get ourselves out there, isn't it?

To get us, get our faces out there.

Yeah.

And what a lovely way to put it.

Like at the event they were talking about, you know, life's too short.

Why are you worried about what people think about you?

Half the time they're not looking at you anyway, if they've got an opinion.

So what?

It's all a bit.

Just let them, isn't it?

I was gonna say it ties in with your.

With your tattoo.

You are.

You are an official let them tattoo.

I. I do, yeah.

I think we have that.

And soon I'll be getting my hashtag win.

Ah, interesting.

So you are a member of the.

Of the Pet Groom and Business Program.

You are one of us.

One of our.

One of our members.

What made you sort of reach out and.

And sign up to that?

I think I'd spoken to you maybe even like a year before that, and I was like, oh, no, I wasn't in the right headspace.

I've got to say.

There was a lot going on and I was in a.

In a bad way.

And then I thought, I've got to do something to make my business more consistent.

So dog grooming appointments have always been a consistency in the business, but the course bookings have been up and down, and what I wanted was a more consistent revenue from that.

And I think I've been on the program almost a year now, and I've got so much more from it than just that.

I'm not really a group person, and I do try my best to get involved, but it's been really good to have just the network of people around you and the contacts I've made and the podcast that we've done.

I just.

I love doing that.

I've made friends, I've made colleagues, I've, you know, obviously got you as a mentor and you've taught me so much.

And when I'm off track, you tell me, you know, you, you politely shock.

You don't.

Sometimes the look on your face, you're like, oh, you've just said that to me.

Yes, I remember at the weekend, I was like, you're, your ego is getting in your wager.

And you're like, oh, you bastard.

I can't believe that.

It's fine.

You can say anything to me, I don't really care.

Your face, your, your face will say a different thing.

Oh, of course it will.

Yeah.

I'm terrible at hiding things.

I'm terrible liar and you'll never get that.

But yeah, I've got good facial expressions unless I've had my Botox put in and then there's not much gamble off.

That was like, okay, you've just said that and I'm reflecting on that whilst I'm looking at you going, yeah.

And then you're like, yeah, everyone needs.

A wake up call.

Right.

And even if we have got a little bit of ego, is that such a bad thing?

No, it's not.

Maybe not like, maybe, maybe it's a good thing, I don't know.

But yeah, like the right place, I think.

Yeah.

And you know, it's just making sure that it's not taking over life.

And yeah, you were right to say that.

And that's fine.

I've took that on board.

And you will challenge me, which I love.

I like to be challenged because more than often than not, I think I'm right.

I like what I say, I say what I like.

So, no, that I must want a big business coach because I don't always get it right.

I don't always say the right thing.

I don't always get it right.

And you know, you need someone to have behind you that's got, got you back in a way that is, you know, prevents you from doing anything like stupid, but also promotes you doing positive things.

And you have given me confidence to go out into the industry and talk to people about what I do.

And that can be really hard.

Like you get the door slammed in your face a lot.

You know, you, you reach out to people, you'll ask them for support or you want to try and get involved in something and you don't always get a positive response and that's fine.

You've just got to move on from it and go to the next thing.

And I think when you've got a message and you want to be part of people's education, the right people will come along and listen to you and take your views on board and challenge you and make you a better person.

And that's what it's all about, isn't it?

So yeah, it's about, it's going out there with that consistent message so that like you said, you, you attract the right people and the right people find you and it can also detract people as well, push people away that you don't particularly who don't want to work with you or, or don't match your values.

Say well, yeah, I suppose what I try and do with clients is try and understand what your goals are, what you're, you know, what you're trying to achieve.

So that if I have an understanding of like your overarching goals and what, and what you want to achieve, when you then come back with wacky and like going a bit off track or.

Going far, which I do quite often.

I can then be like, pull you back in and say, well actually aren't you trying to achieve X and you're looking up, you're looking to go after Y, so sort of pull you back into what you're trying to do because it's very easy to get distracted, isn't it, and go off track and go down different paths that, that prevent you from actually match meeting your overarching goals.

100% is and we are an industry of creatives, so we do want to think outside the box and do different things and try different things.

And for me in particular that can mean going off piece and then coming back around thinking, shit, I've just spent a load of time on this project thing, whatever I was doing that I didn't actually want to do and that has caught me out in the past and I've spent money on things I probably shouldn't have.

And I think that's what kind of led me to contacting you in the first place.

I was just like, I don't feel like I've got the right focus and even maybe the last few weeks I've been off track again and it was quite nice at the weekend just to pull it all back together and have a day to day thinking about, right, where is the future going and what do I want to focus on in the business, how big do I want to actually grow it, how much time do I want to spend on it?

And yeah, I'm quite excited for next year.

I've got a slightly different way of working that I think is going to be really rewarding.

So can you tell us about next year?

What's your sort of big goals and plans for next year?

Well, Joe's on tour.

I was on tour.

Joe is touring.

So a lot of people can't travel to me for cat grooming courses because I get inquiries.

I think the furthest one was Switzerland, so you never know because could be going out into Europe.

But yeah, people want to train, but they're.

It's difficult for them to get to me.

So next year I'm going out to them.

So I've already got some places booked in Milton Keynes down south in Ireland and a few other things, one in London, I think to all go out into people's own salons and help them in their own environments and learn how to cat groove.

And it might be for a day or two days or whatever.

So, yeah, I'm doing that and then I'm doing some short practical programs that are kind of a bit of a offspin from the master cat grooming course with Jackie.

I'm still doing my IPEC courses.

I'm doing cat grooming qualifications, running them throughout January to March at the moment.

And yeah, we'll just see less time at the salon and more time in educational roles, hopefully.

And a few other bits and bobs going on, which I'm sworn to secrecy at the moment, but.

And some speaking opportunities as well, within the cat world.

Yeah, yeah.

So I would like to, I, I say this now, I would like more speaking opportunities.

And then I feel sick and think, why did I do that?

But, you know, again, getting out your comfort zone, building your confidence, you know, it's all good learning, isn't it?

So catch her live.

I'll be doing one there.

And there might be a couple of other things going on I've just asked about at the moment.

So, yeah, hopefully I'll get more opportunity to spread the message and just talk to people about cats and, you know, fair, if there's one thing I can do, it's talk about cats.

Yeah.

And I think it's really important that we learn to do this and it's something that perhaps we shy away from a lot is actually going out there and asking.

I actually did it the weekend I met someone who I will be getting onto the podcast and I was talking to them about their business and whilst talking to her, I was thinking, yeah, I'd really like to get involved in this.

And I just said, you know, can I help you with anything?

Can I help you with, you know, I could put something in your newsletter or I could do something, you know, just be that, that Arnold Schwarzenegger thing.

Be useful, you know, and.

But often it's putting it out there and saying, I would like to do some more speaking engagements.

Who would like to take me on?

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with asking.

Someone could say no, fine.

But you know, we, which as I've asked quite a different places and people and bits and bobs and it's been like, oh, no, we've got someone that does that or we're not interested or whatever.

You don't know until you ask.

And some people have said yes and some people have said no and it's.

That's fine.

Like that's, that's life.

That's winning work.

It isn't winning work, whatever that, whatever that entails.

So, yeah, so.

And again, you'll attract the right things at the right time and whatever else, but there's nothing wrong in, wrong in asking.

And as we were saying at the event, collaboration is key.

Yeah.

There's no point in thinking about what your competitors are doing because it become, I think it becomes a negative focus because you're constantly thinking, what are they doing?

And following them.

When you could be advertising yourself, spend that time working on yourself, why would you be bothered about it?

Yeah, you can't actually inference what your, what people around you are doing.

But you know, it's kind of what we say when it comes to like social media.

A saying my mentor gave me was profits come to the producer, not the consumer.

So he was always like, don't sit there scrolling through social media, looking at what everyone else is doing.

Yeah, get your own content out there so that people are watching what you're doing.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Just focus on your own thing, even like talk to those people or ask other people to get involved in things or do want to do this together.

And the more, like, the more you collaborate with people, the better it will be.

And I, I do that with.

I've done quite a bit of that in the last couple of years where I've worked with other students or like, for example, like with Jackie and doing a little thing with her.

I've talked to you about stuff like that.

It's just, it can be really rewarding as well.

We work in an industry that can be a bit lonely at times for, you know, various people and why not go and talk to somebody else and like, you know, do a seminar with somebody or whatever it is, whatever you're interested in.

It's easier if you do things with someone else, I think.

Yeah.

And everyone's always got a different take on things, so you can always learn.

You always pick up new bits of information or new ways of learning or.

Or new ways of doing something else.

Like, I just reached out to the guys that did the marketing presentation at the Expo and I was like, can I grab a copy of your slides?

Because there's things in there which I want to.

I've learned from and I want to introduce into my business sort of thing.

Look, my website and stuff like that.

Yeah, that's it.

Well, look, we're learning all time, aren't we?

No one, not one person in this world knows everything about everything.

There can't be.

There can't be a person that knows everything.

So we're all learning all the time at different levels.

And you can be a new learner or you can be someone that's evolving.

Like, it's more sort of.

Once you feel like you've got a good ground in the topic, then you're more developing.

It's personal development, it's business development, it's, you know, new avenues, learning different ways forward.

And I think that's great.

No one can sit back and say, I know everything about that.

Then I would have a big ego, wouldn't I?

You.

I do know.

I know a dog trainer, a dashing trainer who flew out to Switzerland to live with the family for a week to train their feet.

So, you know, never say never to these opportunities.

Neither say never.

No, never say never.

Jackie said to me the other day, or have you considered what.

What did she say?

I think she said Finland in Europe, that's, you know, there's no trainers there.

And I'm like, well, it's.

Europe's quite big.

He's in Canada.

So, yeah, you never know, you know.

No, I might go out to Canada.

Like, the world's my oyster.

I can do, you know, pretty much whatever.

And that's the.

Again, that's broadening your horizon, isn't it?

And open up, open up your vision.

Because again, then we go to work day in, day out and we can.

We're stuck in the trenches, as I say, you know, doing, doing the do, doing the, the basics, getting the money in.

We.

We kind of tunnel in and tunnel our vision, don't we?

Whereas.

Yeah, like broadening your eyes and opening up your vision.

Absolutely, yeah.

I'm dead excited for next year.

I do think it's going to be a good one for me and there's a lot of good Positive stuff going on and I need to be really clear on planning, budgeting.

That's where, you know, you've always been very helpful because I'm quite visionary, like you said before.

And it's the.

Them buckling it down into the detail.

I'm like, well, how I'm doing all these things, how am I going to do them and who's going to work with me and whatever else, but you know, we'll see.

And feeling really good about it, really positive about it.

I think it's time for an up step.

So, yeah, if people want to be part of your tour of England, are interested in learning more about cat grooming or getting trained to be a cat groomer, how can they, how can they get hold of you?

Well, they can give me a call or you can email me.

It's joe wallace07outlet.com or via my website.

So the website's got a lot of really interesting information on.

So www.jwhezone services.co.uk I've got some really interesting case studies on there from other cat groomers that I've worked with and how they work and yeah, some good course content on there as well.

So have a little nosy at that.

Give me a shout.

I'm open to whatever.

On being an open otter.

Yeah, floating on the.

Floating on this, on the.

On the river.

I'm floating on the river.

If anyone wants to come and drop me a pebble.

Fair dues.

People will be like, what the hell is that?

That is from What's Crazy Woman going all about now?

Bloody hell.

That's from.

From Funny Snaves Mindset Book.

Computer.

Yeah, yeah, funny Snape.

She's.

She was really good there.

So.

So yeah, it's just about being more fluid, about being more easy peasy and seeing what comes up and going with the flow, I think.

And people could also check out the.

The Pick Groomer community podcast which you help produce.

Yeah, that's on there as well.

Yeah, we have.

We like to cover educational things and pains and gains for pet industry basically and dog groomers, cat groomers and just general, you know, chit chat about stuff.

So if you like listening to mad weirdos who.

Yeah, we, we equated ourselves to the salmon Pete of Sam Thompson and Pete Wicks of the podcast world, but as groomers.

So by the way, if those two people ever want to come on our podcast, you know, feel free.

So it's the pet Groomer community podcast which you put together.

Yeah.

Which you kindly help support us with, which is brilliant.

And yeah, reach out to me or Lexi if you want to come on and you've got a topic to talk about.

We're quite relaxed about it as well.

So either Bill's program members or anyone else just come on for a chat and tell us about your life and what you do and whatever else really.

If you've got your own personal message like I have with the cats or you've got a message about don't know pet sitting or physio or veterinary or whatever it is then yeah just come along.

Awesome.

Well hopefully people have learned a bit bit about cat grooming today, a bit more about waffa and about being an otter.

Thanks a lot Joe and all right.

Thanks Phil.

Take care.

Awesome.

Thank you very much.

I hope you have enjoyed this podcast.

Please make sure you give us a like or a review to help people find it.

The podcast is sponsored by LOSING.

Head over to www.lowpay.com to find out more about their payment.

SOL.