Picture a first-year lecture hall. Now think about the people in that hall — are they all fresh out of high school, the same age, with similar first-year experiences? I hope your answer is no, and here’s why.  

York University is home to over 6,000 mature students, adult learners who bring stories of courage, resilience, and determination that challenge traditional expectations of who a student is. After all, who puts a timeline on learning? 

Mature students often walk a different path to university than most: some are parents, some return after years in the workforce, and many balance full-time jobs or other demanding roles. What unique challenges do mature students face that traditional-age students might not? Beyond just academics, mature students may seek a “student experience” that looks different from the typical idea of campus life. How do they find community, friendship, and balance? 

In this episode, our host Susu B sits down with Samantha Maxwell, Employment Consultant, Job Developer, and Student Success Lead at the Atkinson Centre for Mature and Part-Time Students (ACMAPS), as well as Vice President of the York University Mature Student Organization (YUMSO). 

Together, they explore the emotional landscape of mature students; the empowerment, the feelings of being out of place, and how to reframe these experiences. They also discuss how mature students are perceived by younger peers and how all students can foster more inclusive, respectful campus interactions.  

Whether you’re a mature student or a traditionally aged one, this episode is for you; a conversation that shows how we can all can learn from and support each other to create a stronger, more inclusive campus community. 

Resources:

• Connect with other mature students at York: York University Mature Students Organization (YUMSO) is the heart of York’s mature student social activities. CONNECT WITH YUMSO 
• Mature Student Orientation: There is a specific orientation offered for mature students new to campus. The session is tailored to the needs of adult learners/mature students. You’ll build connections with staff, faculty, and you and your fellow students will learn how Atkinson Centre for Mature and Part-time Students (ACMAPS) can be a valuable asset to you throughout your years of study. 

https://acmaps.info.yorku.ca/orientation/ 

• Atkinson Centre for Mature and Part-Time Students (ACMAPS): The Atkinson Centre for Mature and Part-Time Students responds to the unique needs of mature students from admission to graduation. Programming is focused on orientation, mature student success series workshops and mentoring. This is a great resource for mature students on campus. https://students.yorku.ca/acmaps 
• Mature Students Guide at York U: https://mature.students.yorku.ca/ 
• Mature Student Housing: Did you know that as a mature student at York U, you have access to mature student housing? York apartments or Passy Gardens apartments are options for you. 

https://www.yorku.ca/housing/keele-campus/p-york-apartments/ 

Susu B.: Hey YU. Welcome to your future favorite podcast if it's not already Well-being and YU with your host, Susu B. As you're watching tv, you might come across one of those classic stereotypical coming of age scenes. The first day of university. Picture it. A young student surrounding by other young peers and full of excitement. That experience is often what comes to mind when we think about university life. Right? That image is far from the reality of a lot of students on campus today. Listen, it's all connected to our well-being. Your university is home to more than 6,000 mature students or adult learners, each bringing in their own unique story worthy of its own TV show. Some are parents, some are grandparents, some are balancing full time jobs and full-time school. While others juggle caregiving responsibilities. What they all have in common is the bravery to defy as stereotypes and represent the fact that university is for everyone no matter what the stage in life is. In this episode, I had the distinct pleasure of speaking with Samantha Maxwell, an employment consultant and job developer who also serves as the student success lead at Atkinson center for mature and part time students, supporting mature, part time and transfer students as they navigate university life. On top of that, she's the vice president of York University ‘mature student organization. I really hope you can join us on this journey. A few mindful minutes can really make a difference. So, let's dive into our conversation with Samantha.

Susu B.: Samantha, how are you doing today?

Samantha: I'm good. it's been a lovely morning so far.

Susu B.: Yeah, it was sunny today, so I'm happy about that. and I'm very happy to be here with you because I feel like you are the perfect guest for today's episode. Although there isn't a perfect guest. since so many experiences come in. That's really what we're trying to explain, in this episode that everybody in university come in with a lot of different experiences and particularly mature students are definitely coming in with whole different amount of experiences. So, we'll just go right into it. we know that mature students often walk a very different path, just as I was mentioning, to university, then most. Some are parents, some are returning after years of working in the workforce and many are balancing full time jobs or other demanding roles. Can you speak to the types of challenges mature students uniquely face that students who followed the traditional academic pathway might not struggle with?

Samantha: Yes, of course. And just to add, I just want to say thank you for inviting me, I do appreciate it. but when it comes to mature students, I come from a quite interesting perspective just because I'm not just a student, I'm not just mature, I'm also a parent and I'm also a working parent, juggling all these different elements. So, for sure the different challenges that I can face as a mature student, as I'm sure a bunch of other mature stud students can speak to, is we have to think really about the biopsychosocial aspect of our lived experience in all the different areas that we have to make sure that we are being responsible for. so that can be things like looking at number one, finances, how are we going to be able to pay for our tuition, how are we going to provide for our family, how are we going to make sure that our academic record isn't affected. so, these are the different pieces that we really have to think about. And in comparison, to other students sometimes what the situation is, is maybe they have a parent that's paying for their tuition, maybe they have more space for social activities. So, these are the different pieces that come into play as a mature student at York University.

Susu B.: Yeah, I'm glad you're mentioning this and I guess I'm the other side because I took a pretty traditional pathway to university and while I do struggle with worrying about my tuition or worrying about all of the things that you mentioned, I can just see how it' doubled or tripled on your end. because even if I have the parent who supports me or if like so many students would just say oh my God, tuition fees and I have to deal with it, I do not have a child to also be the caregiver for, when I work a part time job to try and support myself, and worry about how this will impact the time that I'll have to study. You have this and more. So, I completely understand how these things are obviously different.

Samantha: Yeah. And it copulates. Right. So, everything is always in your face. And I know for myself there is an automatic calendar in my head where I really have to think about okay, at this time I have to wake up, at this time I have to prepare breakfast, at this time I have to take my daughter to school and then I have to study and then I have to go to school and then I have to go to work and all of these have to happen all at the same time. While also because I am supporting mature student, thinking about the students experience and how I can also give back to them so that can ease their process in university. So, it's not just at a personal level, it's really broad because you're not just thinking about yourself and being a primary caregiver, but you're also thinking about students and their challenges also.

Susu B.: No, that makes absolute sense. I guess since we're talking about, students, a big part of what students traditionally seek in university goes beyond just getting the degree, because I know we're talking about grades and everything, but that's not the only thing that we usually just look for. we also desire student experience, whether that means clubs, events, friendships, or even late-night study sessions. do you think Maure students often feel limited to focusing on just the academic side things? maybe because their interests, life stage or responsibilities don't align with these other things that I mentioned. or is that a misconception?

Samantha: Well, there is truth to what is mentioned that sometimes there's not an alignment. so, the best-case scenario is to try to find some form of association that aligns with your tradition or aligns with your availability. so, me and my colleague in the office at ACMAPS, we usually say, well, mature students, all they want to do is come in and get out. They don't want to stay around and socialize. Ah, they do, outside of the school, want to socialize. So how can we, be very, I, guess strategic in reaching these type of students who they have all their responsibilities and still they wanna have that social piece accounted for. Because again, self-care is number one. Right? It's the only way that you can really, study and do well. If you're not taking care of your mental health, if you're not taking care of all these different pieces, then some will be affected. And so what I would say, as someone who's also a vice president at YUMSO, which is the York University mature student organization, is reach out to those type of organization that totally understands where you're coming from and try to align their schedule when they're doing social events around the mature student schedule, which is quite similar most of the time. So, there is avenues at York University for these type of students who, in spite of the fact that they want to come in and out, they can do other activities outside of the time, that they have their studies.

Susu B.: No, that makes absolute sense because honestly when I was writing this question, I was wondering if it's our misconception as the person who just took the traditional way wrote, that, oh, probably I didn't want to make the Assumption that probably if I have, I don't know, I'm not a party person. But if I have a party, should I invite my mature friend of mine or colleague of mine who is also mature student. so, I think the best part, the best way to put it is to give them the option.

Samantha: Exactly.

Susu B.: It's not just assumed, oh they will probably not like that.

Samantha: Yes.

Susu B.: Right.

Samantha: Everyone likes to feel included. So of course, giving them the option and even though they might say no like a million times, total exaggeration. But even though they do seem know the majority of time, just feeling like you're included in something is very important to anyone.

Susu B.: That makes absolutely sense. And as a follow up to that, what are some ways Maure students can achieve a student experience while accommodating their interests that might be a little different from their younger peers? I already know that you mentioned like there are specific places on campus that you could go. But if you were to you visualize that, what would you do, to achieve a student experience?

Samantha: So, it depends on your interest. Like definitely doing some research about what type of activities are within your interest scope. also reaching out to or being aware of places like ACMAPS that does have newsletters that goes out to invite you to different events that they're having. YUMSO is another one that I just mentioned earlier. get connected with Register because again based on your interest, it can create something for you. Based on your timeline they can create something for you. outside of York University. Definitely get involved with things like the library. They always have programs that's available. Utilize information sessions from different organizations that may provide some formal resources for you but also have events that are happening. So, try to make sure that you're expanding your horizon in terms of where you're looking to achieve that piece. and of course, if you're not aware then you can just come to us at acmaps, for some support with that.

Susu B.: Yeah, and I feel it a lot of it is also about the mindset. because even when you were telling me about your imaginary calendar, I was thinking if I had that calendar, I would not even put down like oh, student experience, as something that I would even care about adding to my calendar because it's just another thing that I could spend time in that I could be doing work during or getting money or studying. so, I think it is a little bit about the mindset that hey, just because you're a mature student doesn't mean you don't deserve. And you didn't earn because you also earned. You work hard. you earned the student experience as well. Yeah.

Samantha: And I think when you spoke, it just reminded me of, when I just started York University. I remember, I had really bad panic attack because it was my first time coming into university, and.

Susu B.: Sorry to hear that.

Samantha: That's definitely okay. It was part of the experience that helped me to grow. But I think what would have helped to speak to the mindset piece is to know that there are people there that would be willing to go through, the process with you to help. I guess hijack is the word that I usually use. Hijack certain mental systems so that you're not keeping yourself limited, when you're in your academic journey. so that's something that I would say reach out to the resources that are dear. the mindset we can help you take care of. Sometimes, we think that we have to do everything for ourselves, but we are created here for human interactions, and we're here for each other. and then again, you have support at York University. Who is there just to support you in those different elements.

Susu B.: Makes absolute sense. so, I'm glad you already talked about something like a panic attack. my next question is really about emotions. being a mature student can come with a range of emotions. For some, it could feel empowering, while for others, they might struggle with feeling behind or out of place. Did you experience any of these, emotions yourself while navigating university life?

Samantha: Oh, God, yes. It was too much. That's what I would say. I mentioned, I had panic attacks. the other element is I was here as an international student. Actually, I had no status when I started. so, there was always that feeling. Limited, anxious, worried. And then because you have all those feelings, you're not doing as well as you would want. So, depression, occurs. Like there's so many things that are happening all at once that you can't change and you kind of have to deal with in the moment and try to navigate as best as you could. so, for sure, there's lots of emotions that we feel.

Susu B.: Yeah. And I could notice from where you said the intersections of. Also, on top of that, being an international student, we actually, in fact, we have another episode for international students. You should definitely check it out.

Samantha: Will do.

Susu B.: Yeah. And, it just adds up burden.

Samantha: Right.

Susu B.: Kind of like the same analogy that I made about the calendar but it's just like more things are just keep adding up and you're just feeling helpless. so, what helped you manage or reframe these feelings along the way?

Samantha: so, for me, thank God I was a person of faith or I am a person of faith. So, I'm always thinking about things not half empty but half full. so reaching out to like really taking a moment, stop and think and reflect on what's happening and really believing in myself, really helped me. But to actually step back and do that, I also had to have support systems in place. So, a lot of the support systems that were in place, were always positive. They were always telling me, no, you can do this. In spite of this is all about learning how to navigate. This is all about learning how to negotiate. So instead of looking at it as this problem, it was kind of like a challenge that I can take each elements of what was happening in that moment and knowing how to approach them one by one.

Susu B.: No, that makes absolute sense. I'm glad you're also mentioning. I'm kind of making just advertisements here, but I'm glad you're mentioning that you're a personal faith because we actually have another episode on spiritual welling that is a great episode that you can definitely check out if you're listening right now because we really explained in it that whether it was religiousness or spirituality both ways, it could support your well-being in one way or another. And I'm glad to know that as a mature student you are using these resources. Having faith, having this, this mindset shifts to think of a problem as more of an opportunity. An opportunity or a challenge. That's really what cognitive behavior therapy is all about. It just changing the way that, the way you think. Ah, so I'm glad you were using these resources. So, since we were just talking about emotions. Traditionally aged, students often also experience some emotions when interacting with mature students. Some may feel intimidated by their life experiences and skills, while others might not be sure about how to approach or speak to them respectfully. Can you speak to how much your students are often perceived by the younger peer?

Samantha: just as a disclaimer, I would want to still mention that the emotions that we are all feeling, both mature and traditional students, are relatively the same. Ah, so it's not necessary to put one as higher or better or worse, than the other. but it's just basically how we relate to these experiences that's just different.

Susu B.: It's basically human.

Samantha: Exactly. It's just a human experience. in terms of the question that you ask, it's different based on race, culture, intersectional out all these different pieces and more so personality. so, some people throughout their journey of life, even though they're considered mature student, they're very down to earth And they love to be with younger people. For other mature students, they ‘more like into that respect piece, and all the different, types of mature student that does exist. What I would say to a traditional student is to be very certain to see what type of person you're dealing with. and again, communication is very valuable with this piece because having a conversation about, okay, these are the kind of things I'm interested in. I want to invite you. Are you interested in this kind of thing? Right. Just communicating those pieces and again, being very discerning to see what type of student you're dealing with or what type of Mature student you're dealing with would be very valuable.

Susu B.: Yeah, no, that makes absolute sense because it really, it depends. That's why when I was introducing you, I know that you are the perfect guest for the fact that you help Mature students and you are a mature student yourself. But I said that there isn't a perfect guest for this specific episode because there's so many different experiences.

Samantha: Exactly.

Susu B.: So, I guess you, as Samantha, could be comfortable with me talking to you the way I would talk to, other traditionally age students. But maybe someone else.

Samantha: Exactly.

Susu B.: Would not appreciate that tone. So, is there a specific advice you would give to traditionally aged students on how to create more inclusive, respectful interactions with mature students?

Samantha: I don't know if I can provide an advice, because again, there's so many spectrums when it comes to mature students and how to relate with them. what I would say is, reiterate what I just mentioned. Just, knowing the type of student that you're dealing with and communicate, whatever experience you want them to join in so that they can for themselves decide yes or no, I want to join this. and then you can go from there.

Susu B.: Right. So, communication is key there.

Samantha: Number one. Communication.

Susu B.: Yeah. No, that makes absolute sense. I would say do not overthink it. That would be like my approach to. From what I understand for what you said. Because I feel like as the person who is, on the other side, which is like, you know, the traditionally, age student. I feel like we overthink a lot when we're approaching a mature student. And we should not, we should not look at as if the person. As if they're different. Because every person is different. not only them.

Samantha: But to add doubt to your point, some mature student can be difficult. Some persons are difficult. Right. So again, like the advice is to discern what type of person you're dealing with because some of them you can tell I just want to get in and out. Right.

Susu B.: Yeah. They have more of the approach that we talked about earlier which is they want to get the degree, not the student experience.

Samantha: Exactly. And that's okay.

Susu B.: Yeah. No, that completely makes sense. So, accessibility goes beyond physical space.

Susu B.: It is also about belonging and being reflected in the systems around you. Do you think universities are structured using a youth centered approach to campus culture and even learning?

Samantha: So this is quite an interesting question. just because for the majority of the different pieces that are or systems or departments that are at York University, sometimes it can feel that way. there's not as much opportunities for mature students. I'll give you an example. I had a student just yesterday, came to us, wanted to talk about housing. and there are some limitations there where if you're older than 28 you are not first preference. Yeah. So, there are different. There are reasons for that obviously because mature students would be more independent. but there are still things that are in place that are geared for more younger students just because younger students require more support. And when I say more, I say that very loosely because everybody has their different experience and there are exceptions to the rule. but again, in the university, institution as a whole it's definitely more geared towards younger.

Susu B.: There's just this assumption that you're good on your own.

Samantha: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Susu B.: No, that makes sense. And I'm also wondering if learning is also another thing. For example, I could think of like right now I'm reading the questions off a computer and ‘think I don't want to make an assumption either. But I don't think every single mature student is that at least has the same skills that I have with the computer. so, I think for example online learning options. And while they are great options, it has pros and cons. It could help a mature student in the fact that are more flexible, because you have a pretty crazy schedule going on. But also, at the same time it could also hinder them in how they actually access that. Do you feel like that happens with you?

Samantha: Yeah. Like we do have students that are like that. For me specifically, I'm a bit more tech savvy, so I can definitely manage. But a lot of the students that we see, both me and my colleague, they're not as tech savvy. Right. Ah, so having both aspects online or in person experience is very valuable for different types of mature students. and again, there are also opportunities for them to learn how to be more tech savvy, which is something that we offer in some of our programs at Atkinson center for Mature and part time students, ACMAPS for short. But yeah, like it can poise some difficulties in some limitations. But for some mature student they are okay and open for that. But for others, for sure they like that in person experience.

Susu B.: No, and that makes absolute sense even for us. Like for the traditional age students. for example, I always use the Scott library, the media creation lab. Actually, we're using it right now. and, and I asked them about so many things because just because I have skills on my computer doesn't mean I have skills with recording devices. So, it's always a continuous process of learning. Exactly. So, if you were like, if the campus was centered around mature students instead, what would it look like? If you can just do like a little big. It's an abstract brainstorming question, just like visualize and tell me.

Samantha: so of course, making sure that there are opportunities, just like the housing situation where there's not a limitation for mature students because of their age. another piece that I would say which I'm looking into right now, having a more career friendly kind of opportunities for mature students where they can easily transition out into the workforce. that also account for their lived experience too because there are resources out there like that. another piece I would say is promote more of the events that mature students can get involved in. I know for me I was at York University for the longest while. I had no idea acmaps existed. So, ensuring that like all these different departments that are geared towards mature students that they are visible is what I would say. And ensuring that there's not as much limitation or there specific departments housing, things of that nature specifically for mature students.

Susu B.: No, that makes absolute sense and I'm glad you're mentioning the idea of promoting things that are on campus because sometimes, just like we mentioned, some people come here just for the degree, but maybe they want more than the student experience, but they just don't know how to get it. Yes, so maybe when we promote things, like Acmaps, and the other one, they can actually go out there and be like, oh, maybe I do want the student experience. I just wasn't sure if I'm able to get it.

Samantha: Yeah, and again for me I wanted the experience, but I didn't know there it existed. So, becoming more visible is definitely important. And again, it also helps with the networking for when you're finished, university. Right. Somebody in in the club may know of somebody who can offer you a job opportunity.

Susu B.: Yeah, because that's important because I know some might have this belief that, oh, I don't have time for student experience, I want to just focus on career degree. That's it.

Samantha: That's it.

Susu B.: So maybe through that student experience you get an opportunity to their career. It's not only for student experience. So that makes absolute sense. what advice would you give to other mature students who might be feeling isolated or unsure about their place on campus?

Samantha: Reach out to the resources that's there. I know it's easier to feel all the feelings that you're feeling and to sit and try to deal with it by yourself, but there are people out there like myself that's here for you and you don't have to do this academic journey by yourself. So, reach out to acmaps. My name is Samantha. You can find me there. but yeah, reach out to the resources that are there for you because we want you to come. we're not thinking that any of your questions, any of your challenges are too much for us. We're here to help you navigate your journey to the best, way possible that you can do it perfect.

Susu B.: No, I' I'm glad I'm not a mature student, but from the way you talked about it, I want to reach out myself.

Samantha: You're invited.

Susu B.: Yeah, I'll come just for you, Samantha. Yeah. So honestly, with that being said, this concludes our interview. thank you very much, for being here today. Do you have anything else you'd like to say?

Samantha: I guess, if you want to ask me questions, you just come by acmaps. I guess that's the only thing I can see, but I think I said enough. I'm sure you guys are tired here in my voice. But thank you so much for inviting me. This was really lovely.

Susu B.: Thank you very much.

Susu B.: I really want to thank our special guest today, Samantha Maxwell, the student success lead at Atkinson center for Mature and Part Time Students and Vice President of York University's Mature Student Organization. I really enjoyed our enlightening conversation. Thank you, Samantha, for being such a valuable resource. You can find the links to all the services Samantha mentioned in the show notes for this episode along with more valuable information, tips and resources. Visit our website at go.yorku.ca/wbpodcast. Click on the Episodes link and look for the episode Mature Students Redefining the Student Experience. This episode was co-produced by the Well Being and YU podcast team.

Our podcast coordinator is Prabhleen Luthra. Our Technical editor is Carlos Jhonathan Varela Gonzalez and I'm your host Susu B. And as usual, we'll leave you with the quote of the day.

“Everyone likes to feel included”.