Frontiers: Exploring the World of Data | The Peaks of Public Services | Beyond the Program

In this episode our guest host, Jazmin Furtado, speaks with Alexis Bonnell, Chief Information Officer and Director of the Digital Capabilities Directorate of the Air Force Research Laboratory, the primary scientific research and development center for the Department of the Air Force.

They discuss:

• The surprising story of how Alexis got into the public service sector.
• The ways that data enthusiasts can be used in this field.
• What it means to be an evidence-driven leader and why that approach to leadership is so crucial in public service.
• And much more!

About today’s guest: Alexis Bonnell is the Chief Information Officer and Director of the Digital Capabilities Directorate of the Air Force Research Laboratory, the primary scientific research and development center for the Department of the Air Force. She is responsible to develop and execute the AFRL Information Technology strategy, leading the strategic development of highly advanced next generation technologies and platforms for AFRL. Her focus includes catalyzing the discovery, development, and integration of warfighting technologies for air, space, and cyberspace forces via digital capabilities, IT infrastructure and technological innovation across the lab’s operations and culture.

About today’s host: Jazmin Furtado is currently a Technical Program Manager at Google where she leads a team of engineers and scientists to develop and deliver AI applications to federal agencies. Before Google, Jazmin was a part of the software innovation realm for the Department of Defense where she oversaw large-scale Data and Artificial Intelligence programs in the Air Force and Space Force. She has also held various leadership and advisory roles with organizations such as SpaceX, and Massachusetts General Hospital, where she designed and scaled AI, data, and education and training programs.

About the series: Our new series, “Frontiers: Exploring the World of Data”, dives into how people are using their data science minds to shape organizations and change the landscape outside of “Big Tech”. In each episode, we explore the far-reaching corners of the world of data. If you're curious about how data-minded individuals are making a difference in interesting, impactful and creative ways, then tune in!

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Hey, listeners, Tim Winkler here, your host of The Pair Program.

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Enjoy.

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Alexis Bonnell: Hello

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Jazmin Furtado: everyone, and welcome to

Frontiers: Exploring the World of Data.

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Frontiers dives into how people

are using their data science minds

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to shape organizations and change

the landscape outside of big tech.

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In each episode, we explore the far

reaching corners of the world of data.

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My name is Jazmin, and I'm

your host for this series.

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I, myself, am passionate about

empowering people to make data

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driven decisions, and I'm always

amazed at how others do it every day.

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Today, we are exploring the

Peaks of public services.

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I get so excited whenever I like

think of like the alliteration

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to use for each of these areas.

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So today we're going to be covering how

data forward minds can push for real

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change in the public services sector.

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So that leads us to our

guest introduction for today.

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I'm Alexis Bonnell.

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Alexis has a.

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Very accomplished career in public

services from serving in war zones

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with the United Nations to establishing

innovation labs with the United States

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Agency for International Development or

USAID as its chief innovation officer and.

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That was just the beginning.

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After USAID, she transitioned to Google as

a Senior Business Executive for Emerging

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Technologies, and I'm very interested to

hear her take on her transition there.

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And then from Google, she moved back

into public services and is now the Chief

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Information Officer and Director of the

Digital Capabilities Directorate of the

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Air Force Research Laboratory, AFRL.

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No short of long, long titles,

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Alexis Bonnell: all those acronyms.

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I can Jasmine.

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Jazmin Furtado: It keeps it keeps

the keep the mouth occupied.

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Her career has focused on pushing

emerging technology initiatives in

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the large complex environments that

are very common in public services.

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And she undoubtedly has a few

fascinating stories to show for it.

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So I'm very excited.

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To learn more about her journey, I'm

so excited to be here with you today.

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Thank you for your time.

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Alexis.

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Alexis Bonnell: Absolutely.

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What a great topic and

thanks for having me.

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So

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Jazmin Furtado: moving

into our icebreaker, as we

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start off as a tradition.

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So the question that we have today is,

if you could introduce a new public space

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in your community, what would be in it?

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I usually start off to just like break

the ice a little bit on my parts.

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And also I don't have a really good.

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Answer to follow up with so I

usually start off as a low standard.

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Uh, I would choose a green way.

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In my local community, so I am in Los

Angeles area and when I look out the

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window, there's not a lot of green.

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This is a lot of sky.

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So I would want to introduce a

green space, maybe move some of the.

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Some of the roads underground and

like replace them with green space.

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They do that in Boston

where I spend some time.

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So it's great to have those

areas where you can have parks.

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I wouldn't introduce

some climbing structures.

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I figure out the safety behind that.

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I like climbing.

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So I would put that in there.

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Nice bathrooms, art installations

of like, local artists.

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I really think art's a really great

way to bring communities together.

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And then having a greenway occupy a

street instead, or replace a street

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instead, would also allow you easy

access to shops on both sides,

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especially if it's a busy highway.

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So that's what I would choose.

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Alexis Bonnell: That's awesome.

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So when, when, when are you going

to get public sector to fund that?

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It's a dream.

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Jazmin Furtado: Very on theme.

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Alexis Bonnell: Let's see mine.

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Um, I think mine would

be a floating dog park.

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Um, and I'm lucky enough here in West

Virginia to live on a rock quarry.

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And I got to tell you, there is

something about, you know, just a

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Being in water and just floating with

people like it's really hard to be

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mad or angry or not trust or just not

connect when when you're just floating.

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Right?

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And I think as a dog owner and dog

lover, one of the things that I've loved

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when I've gotten to spend time at the

quarry is is also seen just dogs, right?

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Swim and float and play.

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So my thing would be a

kind of floating dog park.

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Um, and the nice thing is you don't

even really need to separate big dogs

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and small dogs because They all float

awkwardly in the same kind of vein.

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Um, so I would, I would

have floating dog park.

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Um, I would, you know, probably

have like local, like street

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vendors, but they'd have to also

have like dog, you know, snacks.

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And yeah, I would just have lots

of, you know, lots of time for, for

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people to float with their pooches.

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And I'm a big believer that.

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That type of quality time that

type of headspace, we would solve

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many of the world's problems.

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Um, we have a little saying that,

like, what happens, you know, in

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the quarry stays in the quarry.

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And we actually mean that more on stress.

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Right?

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So you get it all out and life is better.

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So I would wish that for more people.

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And that would be my idea.

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That seems

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Jazmin Furtado: like a great idea.

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It seems like it's very easy to implement.

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Alexis Bonnell: Right?

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I know, but I don't really know of any.

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I mean, maybe there's parks that have

like lakes and swimming and dog stuff,

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but usually it's like no dogs or no this.

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And so I think being intentional

to be, you know, to be inclusive,

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like that would be good.

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I

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Jazmin Furtado: really like that.

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And when dogs are in the water,

I mean, it's not like they're

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like, they're not going that

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Alexis Bonnell: fast.

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And they don't go after each other.

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Like, it's just, you know, it's

just them in the water, right?

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And then maybe in their ball in the water.

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But yeah, it's a happy place.

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Jazmin Furtado: Whenever your

dogs seem a little, I'm looking

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at your dogs in the background,

they seem a little bit smaller.

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My dog is like 100 pounds and he

needs a big life jacket in the water.

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Yeah.

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I just love seeing all the little quirks

and little things that these dogs like.

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When they're in the water,

they become different animals.

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Alexis Bonnell: So it's very fun.

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Absolutely.

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So that would be mine.

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You can put in your submission.

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I'll put in mine and, uh, we can

have this amazing kind of co space.

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Jazmin Furtado: I know we'll

see what gets prioritized.

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I think that you have a lot more

thought into maybe a lower barrier

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to entry for yours than for mine.

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So I'm rooting for yours.

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Alexis Bonnell: Well, yeah, I, we,

it would be actually a hey, it's a

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good, it would be a good contest.

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And most of all, it would be really nice

if they were right next to each other.

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Jazmin Furtado: Oh, that sounds wonderful

to find a lake really close to a highway.

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All right, so going into our main

topic today, I want to learn.

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All I can about your experiences in

public services, because I think a

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lot of people that are tuning in.

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Don't know of all the

opportunities or the ways that

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data enthusiasts can be utilized.

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In this field, I mean, there's

just so many different.

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Organizations in this industry,

it's it's a big area and it

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could be a little intimidating.

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I wanted you to I was wondering if

you could talk 1st, about kind of

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what public services is like, what

is what makes up this industry and

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then how you yourself got into it.

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Sure.

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So,

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Alexis Bonnell: um, you know, I actually

was not looking to be in public service.

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Um, out of my sister and I, she

was the much more nice kind of

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leading heart do good for the world.

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And I was, you know,

really happy capitalist.

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I specialized in like advertising

and PR and selling people things.

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And, and, um, that was kind of my plan.

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And what was interesting,

though, about the type of it.

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You know, that age in which I entered

kind of the marketing and advertising

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profession was really where, um, what

we used to call digital marketing

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or, um, you know, direct mail

marketing came, uh, came into being.

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And at that time, there was a

lot of, um, kind of glory and

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like brand advertising, right?

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Like the Nike swoosh,

you know, all of that.

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And that was really how

we, we shared messages.

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But, you know, from a data lens, what was

really interesting is when you started

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to introduce kind of that personalized,

right, the direct mail or these different

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pieces that we used to get, that was

really the first time, um, the way that

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I cut my teeth on like, well, you should

really know who you're talking to, right?

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You should really have

that type of information.

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And this is where.

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You know, bank information overlapped

with catalog subscribers, right?

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I know people may not even

know what catalogs are anymore.

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But back in the day, there are these

paper things you'd get in the mail, right?

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And, and there was a lot of, uh,

you know, of targeting, right?

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Well, who's going to

like my product, right?

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Who's going to like my catalog?

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And so, you know, I really take for

granted that I kind of entered, you know,

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what was not public service, but kind of

entered into this idea of having data.

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Having knowledge, right?

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And using it to make better decisions.

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So, you know, if you think about, um,

you know, the cost of mailing something

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to someone and hopes that they might buy

your product, you really had to kind of

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tailor like, is this the right person?

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Is this, you know, because every

decision you made was ultimately

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about the return and finance.

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So, you know, kind of, I didn't

realize that it was unique to kind

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of go into my career being like,

well, of course I want information.

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Of course I want data, right?

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Like, The right decision, you know,

equals, you know, equals success.

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Um, so, you know, what was really

interesting and in the way that I got

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into public service and, uh, this is

not the normal story for most people.

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It kind of feels like a bottle

of wine story, but I will.

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I will tell it, uh, anyway, um, I got a

call out of nowhere from, um, a friend

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of mine who happened to meet, uh,

someone just sitting next to them on

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vacation in Las Vegas, and she called

me and she said, you know, I met this

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guy and I told him he needs to hire you.

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And I was like, well, who's this guy?

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What, what's this about?

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And he was, um, this really incredible

leader in, uh, one of the UN organizations

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and he gets on the phone and he's like,

you know, your friend Amanda says,

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you're great, come, come work for me.

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And I was like, well, where do you work?

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He said, you know, the UN and

I said, well, where, and he

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said, Oh, I'm in Afghanistan.

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And I was like, yeah, I was like,

I don't actually really think

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I know very much about the UN.

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I'm not actually sure I like the UN or I

think they're very effective, you know,

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and he was talking and I think part of

what was so interesting is he kind of

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loved the fact that I wasn't Kind of

like the UN is amazing and does no wrong.

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And, and, um, when he pushed me

a little bit more, I was like,

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well, what is it that you need?

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And he's like, I need someone that I

can kind of drop in the middle of really

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challenging places and like, we'll figure

it out and we'll do important things

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like bring democracy, like, you know,

places and make sure people have food.

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And, you know, I kind of thought

it was just a weird conversation.

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Like what a kind of crazy conversation.

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Weird, you know, and I said, okay,

and I, and at this day, guys,

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when I think back and I was in my

early, early mid twenties, right?

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And, and I don't know, like, where

I got this kind of like gumption,

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but I was like, you know, whatever

reason we were hitting it off.

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And he said, well, what would it

take to get you to come work for me?

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And I said, okay, if you.

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Fly me to wherever your boss is, and

he convinces me, you both convince

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me kind of that, you know, this is,

this is really kind of change that

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you want to bring to your work.

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I said, I'll go to Afghanistan

in two weeks thinking I'm never

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going to hear from this guy again.

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What a weird call and he's like, okay,

you're on hangs up the phone and I like

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I literally kind of hung up the Phone

thought that was really weird And went

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on about my day and the next day there's

a knock on my door and there's a guy

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You know fedex guy with an envelope.

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I open the envelope.

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It is a ticket to new york for that day.

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Um, And I was like this

guy's no joke, right?

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like really like if if anything i've

got to meet him right if anything

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I really admired kind of like You

know, the ability to get things done.

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So I flew out, you know, met

the executive director of the C.

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U.

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N.

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agency with him.

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He flew out and, you know, about three

weeks later, I had sold my house, like,

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quit my job and flew to Afghanistan.

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Um, so, you know, it was

just totally unexpected.

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Nothing I planned for

nothing I was seeking.

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Um, yeah.

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And I kind of have this theory about

opportunity, you know, open doors and

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open windows and open doors are all

those things you kind of expect, like,

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I'm going to go to school and then

I'm going to do this and kind of all

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the logical things right that feel

really safe and kind of predictable

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and are clear as far as pursuing them.

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And then there's,

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and then there's open windows, right?

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And open windows are just all those

weird random opportunities that

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come up all the time that we don't

expect that we're not looking for.

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So that's what took me

into public service.

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And after spending.

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Um, you know, a couple years in

Afghanistan and then actually

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over a decade at different kind

of emergency places, war zones.

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Um, I got to work for

a long time with the U.

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S.

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Agency for International

Development as my client.

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So I implemented a lot of the work of

USAID and kind of again, you know, Jasmine

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just, you know, really tried to focus

on on great delivery, really informed

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information, rich, you know, kind of

programs and The gentleman who happened

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to be the head of USAID in Afghanistan,

um, we just hit it off really well, um,

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incredible leader, incredible man, and we

just kind of stayed in touch and, and no,

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no joke, a couple years later, I pinged

him and said, Oh, what are you doing?

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He's like, Oh, I'm, you know,

I'm back at USAID in Washington.

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And I said, Oh, you know, I'm

thinking about coming back.

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Let me know if there's something you

want me to do or how I can be helpful.

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You know, yeah, come and be my

head of business transformation

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and knowledge management.

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And I was like, okay.

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And it turned out he was at

that time, the head of USAID.

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Right.

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And so I didn't even know he had advanced

to such a position, but you know, again,

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he, you know, I've had so many lucky

experiences of people just kind of saying,

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Hey, like come help, come figure it out.

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And.

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Quite frankly, I just say

yes every time, right?

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So, you know, got to be at USAID, got to

take on a lot of different challenges.

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Um, and, and I think when we

think about public service, that

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can take so many frames, right?

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It could be being in an international

organization like the UN.

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It could be being part of federal

government like USAID or FEMA or the IRS.

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It could be state and local government.

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Um, it could be.

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You know, kind of other

international organizations.

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So public service is really focused

on usually kind of good governance

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and the benefit of the people, the

population, um, sometimes generally, but

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oftentimes in particular subject matter.

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So you'll have public

servants that focus on health.

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Or education or things like that.

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So I'm just really lucky.

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I've gotten to serve in a lot of

different and a lot of different levels.

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Um, and be exposed to a lot

of those different areas,

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even within public service.

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Sorry, that was a lot.

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Jazmin Furtado: I know that you

mentioned, you know, there's a luck

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factor, but I think, you know, you

have, you, you were able to build a

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reputation and you have things under

your belt to show for your time.

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What was the thing or what were the one or

two things that really stuck out to you,

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stood out to you about public services

that made you want to stay in this arena?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, you know, more than just a

year or 2 years, like, you know, you,

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you, you made conscious decisions

to kind of stay in the space.

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And I know you talked a little about

people, but I'm also wondering,

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like, is that a component?

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Is there a mission aspect to it?

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Or the problems you're trying

to figure out what it feels.

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Alexis Bonnell: I mean, absolutely

the mission and purpose component.

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Like, I didn't know that I was looking

for it or that it mattered to me, you

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know, but when you start getting to

play a role of making sure, you know,

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more mothers and babies don't die in

the first 48 hours of birth, right?

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Or that people have.

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Um, access to education and, you know, in

the case of Afghan girls, you know, books

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and being able to be taught, you know,

um, literacy, uh, you know, all the way

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to democracy and other types of issues.

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So, I think it's one of those things

that once you really find some of that

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purpose driven work, it's really hard,

right, to kind of back away from it.

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Um, but I also think a lot of it is about

saying yes, right, to those opportunities.

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I mean, it was interesting because

Over the course of my career there'd

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be a lots of folks like I want to do

what you do and I said, okay Well, I

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can send you to Afghanistan, right or

or Palestine tomorrow, whatever and it

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was like no No, I like the idea more

of like Paris or Rome and I was like,

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well, you know the Parisians don't maybe

need as much That type of assistance.

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So, you know, I think I think part

of it is to recognize that you know,

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sometimes it's hard Um, it's not sexy,

uh, you know, all the time to, to be

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trying to pull off really, you know,

challenging things and hard places.

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But I also think that people who like,

you know, the idea of like, okay, this is

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hard, like, that'll be interesting, right?

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Like, let's, let's see, you

know, how you pull it off.

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And in some cases, um.

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You know, you don't always

know how to pull it off.

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These are really complex, hard problems

and that relationship, that curiosity,

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that hunger for knowledge and for data and

to understand if you're doing it right.

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Um, you know, but it kind of just

becomes a high, like it's one

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thing for me to sell my keys.

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It's another thing right for for me to

be like, people probably lived, you know,

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lived longer because of what I did today.

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Jazmin Furtado: But yeah, I can't

imagine the types of the things that

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you've seen and the stories that you

have Do you have like something that

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comes to mind like a story that kind

of highlights, you know what really

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drew you kept you in and Maybe speaks

also to like the uniqueness of these

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data challenges like the technological

challenges that this area faces

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Alexis Bonnell: Sure.

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I mean I think There's such a,

such a wide, like, such a, such a

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wide, um, amount and vast amount

of, of impactful kind of moments.

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I think, you know, from, from just a

moment that will stay with me forever.

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Um, I got to participate in, uh,

you know, at the time, rebuilding

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the woman's dormitory at Kabul

University in Afghanistan.

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And, you know, that was a building that

was created, I think, in the 70s, and

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never actually, you know, in its history

was used for lots of other kind of

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horrible purposes under, you know, during

war and under the Taliban, and really had

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never actually been a place where women

came together to learn and be educated.

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Right.

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And, and, Live together.

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And so when I got to work on that

project, and I remember walking down

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the hallway after it had opened and

doing my project management checklist.

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Right.

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And, and, and hearing, um, like,

hearing these young women, like, giggle.

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And I thought to myself.

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This building, I don't know if this

building's ever heard that sound

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right and like to to bring like the

population that was intended to be

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there for the doing the intended thing

and to kind of know that finally, you

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know, that that was having its mark.

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Like, those are 1 of those things

that just that stick with you.

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But I think from an information

standpoint there, there are so many.

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So, You know, the 1st is just

being information rich to say,

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are we doing the right thing?

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Right?

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Is this what people want?

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Um, being able to look at major,

you know, data and understand,

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um, you know, what are some of

the challenges that an area has?

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Right?

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What might be some of the ways that

a challenge was tackled before?

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Uh, did it work?

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Right.

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So a lot and, and, um, international

development, you know, there's a lot of

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data for decision making, but there's

also a lot of hunger for evidence.

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Like, is what we're doing helpful?

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And the answer is like, not always.

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There was one, um, case in

particular, um, we had funded a

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clean cook stove initiative, right?

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Because a lot of, um, you know, people

were cleaning with, uh, I'm sorry,

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we're cooking with, um, gas or kerosene

or charcoal and inhaling and having

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really bad health issues because of

the way in which they, um, you know,

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kind of had the option to prepare food.

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And so we thought this is so great.

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We're going to create

these clean cook stoves.

401

They can, you know, eat in a

more healthy way, you know, kind

402

of like pat on the back kudos

403

to us.

404

Good job.

405

Um, and so brilliant is that they

put these like heating sensors.

406

On the cook stoves and just as

a data thing to say, okay, well,

407

how often are they getting hot?

408

Right?

409

Are they failing?

410

And it was it really wasn't

an active data collection.

411

It was passive, right?

412

It was it was, you know, just it

was more kind of accountability.

413

I think for the project

of are they working?

414

But what we saw was, you know, this

kind of huge spike, you know, the

415

beginning of, I think it was the first

month and then like, just like it

416

kept going down and kept going down.

417

And we, of course, were quite concerned

that, you know, they were breaking

418

right or they weren't working.

419

And it was, you know, okay, so.

420

You know, the team made a visit

back to, you know, this area.

421

And what was really interesting is, is

they went and talked to the community.

422

They had given these cook

stoves and the, and they said,

423

well, how are the cook stoves?

424

And the community said, oh, they're great.

425

They're wonderful.

426

You know, they're perfect.

427

And of course, our team was a little

bit like, but are they getting hot?

428

Right?

429

And long story short, um, they, the

community had stopped using them

430

because, you know, as you know,

especially the women were cooking for

431

their families, regardless if they

had, you know, regardless if they

432

were in poverty, they These women were

proud of the food they made, right?

433

Proud of what they brought their family.

434

And they felt like the cook

stoves changed the flavor, right?

435

It wasn't like it was,

it wasn't good anymore.

436

And so they stopped using them, but

they didn't want to tell us, right?

437

That like, actually your, your thing's

not that helpful and it ruins my cooking.

438

Um, but what I loved about that

is that then we got to have a

439

conversation like, oh, maybe we can

change, you know, a fuel formula, or

440

maybe we can do something to fix it.

441

But, you know, without the data, without

being hungry and accountable, right,

442

for what it was we were doing, those

things were going to become the fastest

443

corner footstool, right, um, ever.

444

And I think that that's something when

you, when you serve people, you know,

445

we talk about human centered design.

446

Um, but really just wanting

that knowledge, right?

447

And having that exchange and allowing

that knowledge to unlock the real

448

conversations that need to be had.

449

Um, just such a.

450

You know, those types of moments

were really game changing for me.

451

Jazmin Furtado: Yeah, there's

so many aspects of that story.

452

That's just really solidified a

lot of why it's important to have

453

like, a data hat on in these sorts

of environments because some, some

454

people might be like, well, you know.

455

Take the take all the, uh,

like, data out of the question.

456

Like, this is a very human

centric problem, but data really

457

helps in so many different ways.

458

If you have the forethought to

introduce these passive ways of

459

collecting data, the least intrusive

ways, like, that's very important.

460

That's like a nuanced thing

that you have to pre plan.

461

And then after the fact, I think data

also serves as a way to help, like you

462

were mentioning with those conversations,

especially when you're dealing with

463

different cultures and different people,

it's not, it's not always easy to talk

464

about, you know, when something doesn't

go well, or to communicate, you know,

465

whether it's actually helpful to you or

not, you know, there's barriers there

466

and data helps to break those down.

467

There's numbers.

468

It's a conversation

469

Alexis Bonnell: starter.

470

Yeah, and I think when you're

trying to do good, and if you

471

think about a public sector.

472

You know, we're really entrusted

often with taxpayer dollars, right?

473

So it's not just, you know, we're not

a company trying to make money, right?

474

This is we've been entrusted by people

like you and I with, you know, with

475

dollars to to make our communities,

you know, um, a better place, right?

476

To deliver the programs https: otter.

477

ai

478

And that actually is, is, you

know, something you got to

479

take really seriously, right?

480

And, and data and knowledge and we call

it being an evidence driven leader, right?

481

So it's, it's one thing, you know, just

to make decisions, um, you know, from

482

a, from a normal sense, but it's another

when, when you're not only trying to

483

deliver, you know, a different type of

experience or, or benefit or assistance

484

to someone or advance something,

you know, on behalf of the nation.

485

Right.

486

But it's another one when you're

using your neighbor's money, right?

487

You're using your tax money and You know,

I think for many great public servants,

488

there is that there's that wait, there's

a there's a pride of getting it right.

489

And the data helps you know,

are you really getting it right?

490

And there is a worry, right about

getting it wrong, and and being hungry

491

and making sure that, you know, if

you didn't get it quite right, if it's

492

not as effective as you wanted, but

actually, we see that really quickly.

493

Right, and can pivot and change.

494

Um, and I think that, you know,

it's sometimes it's, you know,

495

sometimes it's qualitative.

496

Sometimes it's quantitative.

497

You know, a great example actually, that

was in California that I got to work on

498

when I moved to Google was, you know,

around the types of kind of conversation

499

that, you know, they could have, or

the ways that they made engage, um,

500

Diaspora or, you know, or non English

speaking parts of the community, right?

501

So, you know, the, the state had really,

in many cases, incredible resources.

502

Um, but they were underutilized by

Spanish speaking populations, right?

503

Or, or maybe Vietnamese

speaking populations.

504

Um, and so, you know, number 1, realizing,

oh, they're underutilized, right?

505

That takes data.

506

Um, but then, you know, being able

to open the dialogue or to have

507

new modes of communication where.

508

You can really see someone, you know,

interact or start to use a service

509

and kind of really monitor that.

510

Um, and I think that that that idea

of, you know, that accountability is

511

just at the heart of public service.

512

Jazmin Furtado: And it's not even

that you need those and loads of

513

data being like these decisions.

514

It's just the.

515

It's the need to gather something

so you can measure a baseline

516

or see trends over time.

517

It's just.

518

Even in the small, more isolated

sense, that's very valuable.

519

And we don't need to, you know,

everyone's like, oh, where's all the data?

520

It's like, well, data is important,

but you can also collect it.

521

You could also make your own.

522

You know, it's, uh.

523

You don't, you don't need to tap

into this magical source of data

524

somewhere to be valuable as like,

as someone who appreciates data.

525

Alexis Bonnell: So, I mean, it's

really like a very, it's a very.

526

What the trait that I love and in in

great all the great human beings that

527

I've met right one one trait They almost

always seem to have is curiosity, right?

528

It's it's this relationship with knowledge

this desire to have more knowledge right

529

to experience more things, you know and

and You know, whether I want to call it

530

data, whether I want to call it knowledge

that that pursuit right of knowledge

531

and the ability to say, well, how will

this change my life, my behavior, my

532

values, you know, the way that I work

or what I might do on behalf of others.

533

That is really a journey of curiosity.

534

Right?

535

And and so many times

that data to your point.

536

Sometimes it can be a quantitative, right?

537

How many people came and participated in

this program, and it could be qualitative.

538

Like, how did someone

feel about the program?

539

And I think one of the, you know,

things I got to work on that was

540

really interesting was, um, the

concept of time poverty, right?

541

So if we think about someone who

might be needing to access, um, you

542

know, some assistance, you know,

types of programs or things like that.

543

Usually, if, if one is in a position

where they have already maybe somewhat

544

financially vulnerable and have to, you

know, look for assistance, that person

545

probably doesn't also have the time to

come and sit, you know, in a six hour line

546

at the local assistance office, right?

547

Because every, you know, I

started to realize every.

548

Our that, you know, she

or he might sit there.

549

That's our that's ours.

550

They're not earning money, right?

551

They're not able to, you know,

put that to supporting their

552

family, but it may also be.

553

Maybe she didn't have a car, right?

554

Maybe she had to coordinate

with the bus schedule.

555

And so it was really interesting when

you become passionate about about data

556

and the story that it tells you, you

become so much more intimately linked

557

to the people you're trying to serve.

558

And so sometimes that qualitative

thing was literally just.

559

Thank you.

560

You know, like following someone, you

know, with their knowledge, right?

561

But, but going with them on the

day and saying, what is it like

562

for you to navigate this thing

that we think is just so easy?

563

And there, and, and obviously, you

know, and we realized in some cases

564

that, you know, the amount of time

poverty that someone incurred, um,

565

and the amount of lost income and

things like that was sometimes like.

566

Not even as much, uh, or not

more than the benefit, right?

567

And so it really allows you to step

back and say, well, a, can I do this

568

in a more useful way so that that

person doesn't incur time poverty,

569

you know, or, you know, let's be more

realistic about the challenges that

570

the people we're trying to help have.

571

Um, and so, Those are, you know, you

just have so many magic moments, right?

572

When you're in that curious headspace,

um, that, you know, that help you let, you

573

know, if you're getting it right or wrong,

574

Jazmin Furtado: I love that theme

of, like, the, this curiosity

575

and the need to, like, gather

data and bring people together.

576

In the public in the public services

space, like, this is these arenas

577

when you're looking and trying to get

data, you're doing things to bring

578

people closer together to better

understand and empathize with others.

579

And it's 1 of the more human things

you can do in trying to get to know

580

someone and getting to know their plight

as well, which makes me very curious.

581

How you move from that space and you

move to Google, um, I wanted to know a

582

little bit about your journey there, your

thought process and your transition there.

583

What had you gained the big things you

had taken away from your time that really

584

helped you with this transition of Google

and maybe the impetus for that movement.

585

You're back in the public services space.

586

Curious how

587

Alexis Bonnell: that went.

588

Yeah, no, I mean, you know.

589

Going to Google was, uh,

was very intentional.

590

Um, it did not start with the offer.

591

Please, you know, come to Google.

592

Um, it started probably about a half

a year before in the sense that,

593

uh, you know, at the time I was the

chief innovation officer at USAID.

594

And I started to become kind

of uncomfortable because.

595

You know, I thought to myself, well, gosh,

that's a great chief innovation officer.

596

I should be in love

with my customer, right?

597

I should just have so much intimacy.

598

I should understand so much about them.

599

Um, and I, I found that was

actually really hard to do, right?

600

It wasn't actually, you know, always

natural to You know, how we programmed or

601

what we thought or how we made decisions.

602

And so I thought, Oh, gosh,

you know, I really I need to

603

figure out what that looks like.

604

And at the same time, I was really

fascinated by how is what we do really

605

going to be impacted by technology.

606

Right?

607

And oftentimes in government technology.

608

Um, it's super expensive, right?

609

These are really big

systems, really complicated.

610

And I was like, do they need to be

like, does it have to be that much?

611

Like, what's going on?

612

And so when, you know, I kind of out

of the blue through a colleague of

613

mine, another public servant, um,

who's still at Google, really amazing,

614

uh, you know, defense leader said,

Hey, you know, we're gonna, we're

615

gonna try to, you know, make it work.

616

More technology relevant to government,

government and public service.

617

Come join us.

618

And it was really hard, right?

619

Because I had one of the

best gigs in government.

620

I mean, you know, being the chief

innovation officer at USAID is

621

about one of the best feel good,

cool, kick ass jobs right out there.

622

But, you know, I thought to myself

and in that spirit of curiosity, I was

623

like, okay, what do I have to learn?

624

Like, where would I like to

become more confident, a better

625

leader and understand more?

626

And I really recognize there

were kind of three categories.

627

So the first was I wanted to understand

more about technology, right?

628

What was real?

629

What was hype?

630

Um, you know what needed to cost 200

million and what was free, you know,

631

like environmental insights engine, I

think, is one of the Google products.

632

Um, you know, free, incredible data.

633

No one knows about it.

634

It seems like no one uses it.

635

Um, but also, how do you answer

important things when you're talking

636

about data like, um, security, right?

637

Or privacy?

638

Um, because there is an exchange right

of often really critical information.

639

And so I thought that

would probably be good.

640

For me to know more about and be more

confident in and to bring that back.

641

So that was one.

642

The second was culture, you know, right?

643

Because a lot of times we sit on

the outside of organizations like

644

a Google or apple or other places,

and it seems so cool, right?

645

And everyone seems like so happy and

it's great and, and so innovative.

646

And, and I really wondered, I wonder.

647

What it is about how people leave there

or how people function and how much of

648

that I could do as a public servant.

649

Um, you know, and that was, um, you

know, something that I really felt in

650

my time at Google, you know, probably

about 90 percent of the stuff that,

651

um, you know, But I learned kind of and

how Google functions and participated.

652

I was like, I could have done this

like with the same budget that I had

653

in public sector, the same legislation,

the same kind of rules and policies.

654

And so that was really eye opening, but a

great example of what might be different.

655

And one of the things that, you

know, I hope to take more now into

656

my public service is oftentimes in

in Government organizations, because

657

of levels of accountability and

transparency and wanting to be really

658

great stewards of taxpayer dollars.

659

Um, there's a lot often

kind of a hierarchy, right?

660

And so if you were doing a good job,

usually in recognition programs, it would

661

be like your supervisor kind of would

decide who would get an award, right?

662

Or a panel.

663

It was always kind of people

above you, you know, got to

664

decide what you were doing.

665

And the irony, of course, is.

666

It's actually not people above you that

are usually in the trenches doing the

667

work who really know like how awesome you

are, or maybe not that awesome that day.

668

Right.

669

And, and so this, you know,

the, the concept of peer awards.

670

Right.

671

And the ease of peer awards.

672

And for me, how, how, how

welcoming and how unterritorial.

673

And how open to sharing and, um, what

it was like to kind of just be able

674

to give someone a shout out, right.

675

Or a small, you know, monetary thing.

676

I was like, this is, this

is a different way of being.

677

And what really struck me more than

anything else is that as an individual,

678

as a person, we need nourishment, right.

679

We need recognition.

680

We need to know that, that

other people value and see us.

681

And oftentimes in kind of hierarchical,

um, or superior based recognition.

682

Like, great.

683

You'll get told that once a

year, maybe twice a year, right?

684

Um, and in peer based recognition,

I mean, there were, there were

685

times where, you know, like someone

would give me a shout out, like

686

once a week, twice a week, right?

687

And it was just, it was this really

interesting, um, nourishment, right?

688

To my sense of purpose,

to my confidence, right?

689

That I was doing good things.

690

I was bringing great value.

691

So, you know, that's an example in

that kind of culture realm of, There

692

was nothing stopping me right from

from really doing that type of work.

693

Um, I just didn't tick that way

right until I saw how that looked.

694

And the last part, you know, that I wanted

to be really intentional at Google was

695

what is it to create, you know, products

and services that people love, right?

696

And that billions of people use.

697

And what does that look like?

698

Because the interesting thing is

that You know, next to, you know,

699

some of the bigger tech companies

or other tech companies, really only

700

government plays at that scale, right?

701

Only government is in the

business of billions, right?

702

Um, or, you know, hundreds

of millions of people.

703

And so it was really interesting

in some ways to compare.

704

You know, being in the

business of scale, right?

705

And in very different ways.

706

Um, but, but really, for me,

that that business of scale is

707

a business of people, right?

708

And so I wanted to go and kind of see,

well, what does it look like to do that?

709

So, you know, I was really lucky because

those are my 3 kind of questions.

710

I went in with a lot of intent to

learn around them, um, and about them

711

and develop a point of view on those.

712

And then.

713

Yeah.

714

You know, kind of once I did, it was like,

okay, now let's go practice it right now.

715

Practice what you preach, go back and do

716

Jazmin Furtado: it.

717

I think that the cross pollination of

sorts of like experiences is really

718

important to be useful in these

like ever changing environments.

719

And, uh, you were mentioning a lot of

things that you, your intentions, what

720

you wanted to get and benefit from.

721

And when you move to Google, when you

are at Google, where there are things

722

that you had learned from your public

services experience, you know, big

723

traits that you found very valuable

and very, um, I guess, useful in your

724

day to day when you're at Google, that

maybe is a little bit different, like,

725

give you a little bit of a different

perspective in that environment.

726

Alexis Bonnell: Yeah, I mean, I think

1 is just that, for lack of a better

727

term, kind of servant leader mentality.

728

Right.

729

Like, like the why of

why are we doing this?

730

Right.

731

And how might we do it in a way that

has more impact that resonates more?

732

I think, interestingly, you know, like,

Google's obviously an incredible brand.

733

Um, but I think that public sector is when

it's done really well, really, really,

734

um, understands the power of story.

735

Right.

736

And.

737

You know, there are a lot of times

where, you know, I would kind of go in

738

with peers and it might be something

like, you know, buy cloud or do this.

739

And it was like, well, like.

740

What does cloud let them do?

741

Right?

742

Like cloud lets them like be, you know,

be flexible or be adaptable or scale up.

743

And so a lot of times I found,

you know, myself a little bit in

744

like, like the translation role of

yes, this technology is amazing.

745

But like, how does that

change how I can serve?

746

Right?

747

Or, or, or the confidence maybe that

I have to make a tough decision.

748

You know, if you look at it.

749

You know, whether it was covid or any

other time of challenges, um, or maybe

750

it's a general right in a conflict.

751

Those are high stress, high

stakes decisions, right?

752

And if you think about the

power of knowledge and data,

753

any amount of confidence, you

can give someone to be like.

754

Hey, here's the information.

755

Like make, make the best

decision you can make, right?

756

Because there's often like

no right answer, right?

757

It's just what's the best

decision you can make?

758

And, and knowledge and data, you know,

gives, gives you that confidence, right?

759

Allows you to feel like I really am, I'm

doing the best I can do in this moment.

760

Um, and I think people

often underestimate just.

761

What the weight is, you know, on a

public servant, you know, in one of those

762

really, um, just, you know, emergency

or other moments to get it right.

763

Right and I think, you know, that

relationship with information, the

764

relationship with knowledge, um,

is just a really critical element.

765

Um, you know, and I think for

me, I innately understood that.

766

Um, I think sometimes you can.

767

You know, you're, you're

just doing the tack.

768

And so it's like, you know, I talked to an

engineer and they're like, you know, yes,

769

it does this, you know, this thing faster.

770

And I was like, why do they care?

771

Does it let them make a decision faster?

772

Right?

773

Um, but that's, but that's normal.

774

And I think actually, you know, you

and I had talked about this is why

775

I think, um, in the data knowledge

tech space of which, you know, a

776

Google and a government share, right?

777

Like they're, they're both in

the business of those things.

778

Um, but story matters.

779

And I really think a lot of times

we look at data and we think

780

about data scientists, right?

781

And we, and that's who we think about

as being, um, the most important

782

or the thing that people need.

783

And I think that's true.

784

But you know, that, that data storyteller.

785

Right.

786

The person that can look at

that and say, well, so what,

787

not just what does this mean?

788

But so what, how does

it connect to someone?

789

How does, you know, how is that something

that someone actually wants to engage?

790

Because all the information in

the world doesn't matter if it

791

doesn't inspire people, right?

792

Or give them confidence or compel people.

793

So, you know, I think what has

been unique for me is, Okay.

794

Playing both the technology and innovation

role, also playing maybe a public affairs

795

storyteller role and realizing that they

are, they are very, um, under optimized

796

when they're not done well together.

797

I

798

Jazmin Furtado: love what you're

saying with the relationship

799

of knowledge, because it's not

just the amount of knowledge.

800

It's not the amount of data that we have.

801

I mean, the world's at our

fingertips in that regard.

802

It seems like it's really what is

our relationship with knowledge.

803

Now, those are the sorts of

questions that we need to be asking

804

as data leaders in this space.

805

And everyone always needs

to have a healthy challenge

806

when it comes to any problem.

807

Like, how is it being tackled?

808

How are we leveraging data?

809

Because It's we're not just

we're no longer in this phase.

810

We're just trying to grab, you know,

something that's that's that's attainable.

811

It's now.

812

How do we use it?

813

Are we using it?

814

Right?

815

Are we asking the right questions?

816

Alexis Bonnell: I think, and I think.

817

I mean, I think to that point, too,

a lot of people discount that they

818

can be data pioneers, even if they

don't crunch a single number, right?

819

And what I mean by that is, you

know, I, I have the great privilege

820

of, of participating and, you know,

as a chief information officer,

821

that highly technical role, right?

822

Hoping to really bring technology to bear.

823

And people say, well, what'd

you get your degree in?

824

Like, my first degree was

in public relations, right?

825

Like, And, and that actually serves

me so well, because, you know, the

826

first rule of any relationship with

knowledge or database I'm trying to

827

set up is like, why, what, what is

the story we're trying to sell the,

828

you know, tell the decision that we're

trying to make differently, like.

829

What is inspirational

or, or scary about that?

830

Right.

831

And, um, you know, I would just really

encourage, you know, I would love to see

832

like every data scientists have like a

bestie that was like the marketing comms,

833

like advertising person, like that.

834

Those are like the juggernaut,

you know, pairs, um, you know,

835

but, but again, people often just

will ask, well, I'm, I'm, yeah.

836

Like I used to say, well, I'm

not, I'm not technical, right?

837

Like, because I, I

valued the story, right?

838

More than maybe necessarily calculating,

you know, the data or running

839

kind of the algorithmic structure.

840

Um, but I realize now, like, I'm just.

841

Very technical, but just

as technical, right?

842

And just as relevant to the

technology as the coder or the

843

engineer or anything like that.

844

Jazmin Furtado: So as a leader yourself in

this space and like in data in these like

845

innovation spheres and this very tech.

846

Centric in these very tech centric

organizations, what advice would you have

847

for folks that are interested that want

to maybe try their hand at working, etc.

848

Like, where do they start?

849

Is it like, you know, is there a

lot of runway for them still to

850

be able to take up in this space?

851

Like, is there a lot in terms

of like, future progress?

852

Where do you see this arena going?

853

Alexis Bonnell: Yeah,

I mean, the reality is.

854

There is so much, right?

855

So you could, um, you know, you could be

looking at, um, local nonprofit, right?

856

Or NGO work as part of public sector.

857

And you can start, one of the great ways

I tell people is like volunteer, right?

858

You don't have to take this big jump.

859

You can go volunteer, right?

860

Or participate in a, you know,

kind of a local community or

861

government sponsored event, right?

862

Or do things.

863

And number one, you're going

to build relationships, right?

864

Um, but number two, You'll you'll

know as you feed that purpose

865

driven part of your identity, right?

866

Like, Oh, is this is this

feeling something right for me?

867

Is this bringing something more?

868

Um, you know, I would say, like, there's

also interestingly a ton for people who

869

are, you know, data, you know, story

centric, you know, government is doing

870

a ton of things like hackathons, right?

871

Or, or kind of data crunch

events or other types of things.

872

And, and we really do, um, Have a

need for that type of talent, right?

873

We can't hire, you know,

we can't hire like these

874

information stewards fast enough.

875

And so, you know, you'd be really

surprised, you know, and almost, I feel

876

like every major city multiple times

a year, there's probably some type of

877

public entity being like, come help us

figure out this right or come do that.

878

And, um, and like, just go

right, just just participate.

879

Um, You know, but there's

there's so many different ways.

880

What's really interesting

to me is right now.

881

You'll get a lot of folks who maybe

you're coming out of tech, right?

882

You want more purpose or who are kind of

looking for a transition and it's really

883

interesting to me how narrowly they

often look at their experience, right?

884

So I was just talking to someone the

other day and They had been kind of

885

in an executive strategy role, and

they really kind of felt like, oh,

886

well, I'm only I've only done tech.

887

So, so I only really can

contribute right to tech.

888

And I was like, well, you don't

think like government, like,

889

needs to plan stuff, right?

890

Or like have a strategy, you know,

like, I know we have a strategy, right?

891

And so I do think that sometimes

we get these really limiting

892

Perspectives on our identity, right?

893

And I mentioned to you kind of

open doors and open windows.

894

And I think what's different about

the people who, like, see the

895

open window and go through it.

896

Is like, like, oh, I could, I could

be that, like, I could do that.

897

Right?

898

I think, I think they just see,

like, experiences that they've had.

899

As more broadly relevant, right?

900

Then a lot of people who kind

of just focus on the doors.

901

And so, you know, my encouragement

would be like, if you're.

902

A comms person or you were trained

in marketing like you are just as

903

relevant to a tech company, right?

904

But if you're in a if you're in a

tech company and you're data crunching

905

like you're just as relevant to the

red cross right, so um, you know

906

really the more we kind of knit that

fabric together right and give people

907

the opportunity like i've had to go

Between the two, it all gets better.

908

Jazmin Furtado: Yeah.

909

Paying it back on all fronts.

910

I know that AFRL also, they, they,

there's quite a lot of outreach.

911

That is a lot of like hackathons

of sorts to get involved

912

Alexis Bonnell: in.

913

Yeah, and I think that

that's the neat thing, right?

914

And being in government, especially in

a place that is a research lab, right?

915

A lot of people think like, you

know, discovery and invention happens

916

like, you know, in the movies, like

some guy sitting in a dark corner

917

by himself being like Eureka, right?

918

That's not how it happens, right?

919

It happens through like,

collision of people and ideas.

920

And so being at a place like, You know,

like, uh, the Air Force Research Lab.

921

You know, I we get to work with incredible

people in education and academia, right?

922

We get to work with, you know, private

sector companies like, you know,

923

like Google and Microsoft and small

businesses and small tech and big tech.

924

Um, and so I guess maybe in some

cases I got, I got addicted to being

925

in that curiosity journey, right?

926

Um, and my first role then kind of, you

know, being really intentional at Google.

927

And now it's kind of like,

The Holy Grail, right?

928

I mean, they're all of these incredible

genius people all around me being

929

curious about different things.

930

And my job is literally to

help them have a more intimate

931

relationship with knowledge, right?

932

With with data, with learning and

having that, you know, inspire

933

and propel, you know, what they're

doing for critical missions.

934

And so it's, yeah, it feels, um, it's

a real kind of blessing to find myself

935

here and to See you To be kind of

in that constant state of learning,

936

you know, from those around me.

937

Jazmin Furtado: You know, you're

in a good spot when you're

938

inspired by the people around you.

939

Oh

940

Alexis Bonnell: yeah.

941

They're so smart.

942

It's just, it's actually, it's funny when

I took this job, I told the commander of

943

that, like, you know, that it terrified

me and he's like, I don't, I don't

944

think I've ever heard anyone say that.

945

And I was like, well, no, it's

like, this is an amazing mission and

946

there's tons of smart people, right.

947

And technology changes every day.

948

And like, this is.

949

Like, what a meaty challenge,

like if, you know, but it's okay.

950

I don't, I don't take jobs

that don't terrify me anymore.

951

Like, let's go.

952

Jazmin Furtado: Right.

953

That's a great checkbox to

have when considering like does

954

Alexis Bonnell: this terrify me?

955

Yes.

956

All right.

957

And you say

958

Jazmin Furtado: learn by osmosis

by like all the people around you.

959

I think that is also another great

aspect is like, it's, it is like

960

you're saying a team effort you learn

from, you know, everyone around you.

961

There's so much collaboration.

962

It's not like.

963

You know, you're, you're only

working in your small little group.

964

What I have found with public services

that you, you have to, I mean, the

965

core of your work is collaboration.

966

You have to work with others

and cross cutting over, you

967

know, different functions.

968

Yes, it makes it more complex, but it just

makes it so rewarding as well, because

969

you're able to touch so many areas.

970

Thank you for taking us

on this journey with you.

971

I wanted to, I know we've gone, we've

gone a bit long, but I did want to finish

972

with our, uh, this last game that I'm

very proud of, uh, the factor fiction

973

round, a few statements here about public

services, and I want you to tell me if you

974

think that these are factor fiction and

you're not expected to know these answers.

975

Uh, they're just statements I took,

uh, I was looking them up online.

976

Regarding public service facts, or yeah,

so the 1st, 1 is around national parks.

977

Okay.

978

So, one of the hottest temperatures on

979

National Park, registering 123 degrees.

980

Do you think that temperature

is fact or fiction?

981

Alexis Bonnell: I think it's fiction,

because I think it was hotter.

982

What do you think it was?

983

Oh, um...

984

I'm gonna guess like mid 130s.

985

Jazmin Furtado: Wow,

double points on that one.

986

Yes.

987

Okay, what was it?

988

What was it?

989

Yeah, so it was 134.

990

Alexis Bonnell: I was actually gonna

say 135, so I would have been wrong,

991

but like, I appreciate you giving me

like a little wedge in the mid 30s.

992

Yeah,

993

Jazmin Furtado: usually like, I'm

like, I try to make these things

994

really hard, but yeah, it's a 123.

995

I pulled that number because it's

actually the record heat for Palm

996

Springs, California, which is like

close to where like I grew up.

997

So, yeah, 134 is the hottest report.

998

One of the hottest temperatures on earth.

999

And that was Death Valley.

00:53:34,220 --> 00:53:34,670

I

00:53:34,690 --> 00:53:38,289

Alexis Bonnell: did have a little bit of a

cheat because when I worked for the UN, I

00:53:38,330 --> 00:53:43,960

got to work in Dubai for a while and I was

there and I remember that like, I think

00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:45,590

the top temperature there got to like.

00:53:46,015 --> 00:53:48,025

And it, like, melted something on my car.

00:53:48,025 --> 00:53:48,995

I just remember that.

00:53:48,995 --> 00:53:51,915

And so I was like, gotta be a

little higher, like, I'm sure.

00:53:52,015 --> 00:53:56,095

So anyway, I had some experiential

cheat, at least in hot zones.

00:53:56,515 --> 00:54:00,725

Jazmin Furtado: And nothing humbles you

more than just searing in the heat of a

00:54:00,725 --> 00:54:01,315

Alexis Bonnell: desert.

00:54:02,045 --> 00:54:02,655

Yeah, nothing.

00:54:02,725 --> 00:54:05,845

Yeah, it's funny because people

say, what's the best innovation?

00:54:05,855 --> 00:54:07,265

And I was like, air conditioning.

00:54:09,005 --> 00:54:12,345

Sure, there's other really good ones for

humanity, but I really like that one.

00:54:13,704 --> 00:54:14,594

Jazmin Furtado: Absolutely.

00:54:14,625 --> 00:54:15,025

I will.

00:54:15,055 --> 00:54:18,485

I second that one from living,

um, growing up in the desert.

00:54:19,935 --> 00:54:20,215

Right.

00:54:20,275 --> 00:54:22,524

Second one is about the postal service.

00:54:23,095 --> 00:54:26,415

Oh, the officially licensed

UPS brick introduced in

00:54:30,525 --> 00:54:32,555

00:54:32,574 --> 00:54:33,715

Thousands have been sold.

00:54:34,100 --> 00:54:36,750

On the postal store alone,

and at other retailers.

00:54:38,025 --> 00:54:41,635

Alexis Bonnell: Okay, UPS, like

brick, like you build a house with

00:54:41,665 --> 00:54:47,564

brick, like a brick and okay, and

how many have been sold thousands,

00:54:47,915 --> 00:54:49,365

Jazmin Furtado: thousands have been sold.

00:54:50,985 --> 00:54:51,655

Alexis Bonnell: Oh, goodness.

00:54:53,334 --> 00:54:58,165

I feel like I have to say fiction only

because I have never seen said brick.

00:54:58,775 --> 00:55:02,455

Now, if it does exist, I like want

one, but I'm not sure why I want one.

00:55:03,745 --> 00:55:04,255

Yeah, you are

00:55:04,255 --> 00:55:04,855

Jazmin Furtado: correct.

00:55:04,855 --> 00:55:06,560

It is Fiction . Okay.

00:55:06,790 --> 00:55:07,080

Alexis Bonnell: Okay.

00:55:07,795 --> 00:55:08,275

So that's what I was like.

00:55:08,275 --> 00:55:10,075

I was like, I need to

go and find this brick

00:55:11,125 --> 00:55:14,365

.

Jazmin Furtado: So when I was looking up this fact, so it is dog costumes.

00:55:14,370 --> 00:55:15,715

Dog costumes are very popular.

00:55:15,715 --> 00:55:17,995

Sold at UPS stores, I guess.

00:55:17,995 --> 00:55:18,325

So it's

00:55:18,330 --> 00:55:19,315

Alexis Bonnell: a very item.

00:55:19,405 --> 00:55:21,115

So interesting, the reason why.

00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,575

But I can also see, I

can see why those are

00:55:23,575 --> 00:55:24,085

Jazmin Furtado: popular.

00:55:24,465 --> 00:55:27,885

And I had put brick there because I

found out while I was doing this, that.

00:55:28,780 --> 00:55:30,520

You can just send a brick in the mail.

00:55:31,070 --> 00:55:35,180

Like if you have your, if you put an

address, like in Sharpie on it and

00:55:35,180 --> 00:55:38,960

you put like a post it, like, yeah,

you can just put it in the mail.

00:55:39,370 --> 00:55:39,750

And then I

00:55:39,860 --> 00:55:41,920

Alexis Bonnell: feel like I feel

like this is we are going to kick

00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:46,960

off some type of like trend on like,

you know, on like, I don't know, you

00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:48,829

know, Instagram or shorts or whatever.

00:55:48,830 --> 00:55:51,090

And it's going to be like, and

you're going to create some kind of

00:55:51,090 --> 00:55:52,710

like, you've been bricked, right?

00:55:52,710 --> 00:55:55,779

And it's going to be about saying, like

making kind of some kind of statement.

00:55:55,780 --> 00:55:59,130

But when you do that, Jasmine, like,

make it positive, make it like,

00:55:59,130 --> 00:56:03,110

like, you're, you're my solid friend,

like, make it something good, right?

00:56:04,580 --> 00:56:08,050

Yeah, so when people like brick each

other, it's like, you know, yeah, I

00:56:08,050 --> 00:56:10,640

don't think that I don't think the

Postal Service will thank you very

00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:14,160

much for the amount of weight that

all of a sudden they have to carry.

00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,239

But I think you should ride this one.

00:56:16,510 --> 00:56:16,889

Yeah, it's

00:56:16,890 --> 00:56:17,739

Jazmin Furtado: on their site.

00:56:17,789 --> 00:56:19,390

Like, I think they're welcome to have it.

00:56:19,430 --> 00:56:21,740

They have it on their site

that you can send a brick.

00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,710

So, you know, send your buddy

brick, send it to your favorite.

00:56:24,710 --> 00:56:24,730

Now

00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:30,530

Alexis Bonnell: that if I don't get

a brick, I'm going to be like, Hmm,

00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,130

I guess, I guess we're not buddies.

00:56:34,150 --> 00:56:36,240

Jazmin Furtado: Yeah, you'll know,

I'll have to grab, I'll have to,

00:56:36,380 --> 00:56:37,350

I'll have to grab it from you.

00:56:38,020 --> 00:56:40,790

All right, the third

is about firefighters.

00:56:41,750 --> 00:56:47,840

So, of the active firefighting personnel

in the nation, about 20 percent of

00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:49,690

them are volunteer firefighters.

00:56:56,140 --> 00:56:58,630

Alexis Bonnell: So, I live in

West Virginia, where most of our

00:56:58,630 --> 00:57:03,245

firefighting units Our volunteer

or depend a lot on volunteer.

00:57:03,605 --> 00:57:11,125

So my guess, my guess would actually be a

higher percentage are volunteer than 20%.

00:57:12,494 --> 00:57:12,995

That is true.

00:57:13,924 --> 00:57:14,804

Jazmin Furtado: Oh my gosh.

00:57:14,804 --> 00:57:15,685

This is like a record

00:57:15,855 --> 00:57:16,094

Alexis Bonnell: on this.

00:57:16,094 --> 00:57:18,784

I'm telling you public servants.

00:57:18,784 --> 00:57:21,265

We know so many random things, Jasmine.

00:57:21,265 --> 00:57:25,250

Like we just sit there and it's

like, well, I know this is how,

00:57:25,290 --> 00:57:26,500

how our, you know, whatever.

00:57:26,500 --> 00:57:31,490

And we just like, we, we, we pull our

like humanity right out of our backpacks.

00:57:31,540 --> 00:57:31,910

Right?

00:57:31,980 --> 00:57:36,840

Like I'm so proud that public service

did good in your podcast quiz.

00:57:37,850 --> 00:57:39,909

Jazmin Furtado: They're,

uh, let's see, let's see.

00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:40,660

Yeah.

00:57:40,660 --> 00:57:45,360

So 53 over half of the

floors are volunteer

00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:46,050

Alexis Bonnell: firefighters.

00:57:46,110 --> 00:57:47,120

Wow.

00:57:47,130 --> 00:57:48,870

So first of all, shout out to them.

00:57:49,275 --> 00:57:52,305

Right, like, how, how, what,

like, and that's a great example

00:57:52,305 --> 00:57:53,885

of public service, right?

00:57:54,055 --> 00:57:54,995

Like, how awesome.

00:57:55,025 --> 00:57:55,995

So, I did not know it was 53.

00:57:56,495 --> 00:57:58,545

That is, now I do.

00:57:58,785 --> 00:58:01,275

So, I won't ever get it wrong, but, like.

00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:03,530

Yeah, I think we're pretty

00:58:03,530 --> 00:58:04,040

Jazmin Furtado: good.

00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:05,940

Yeah, thank your local firefighter.

00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:07,350

There are still two more questions.

00:58:07,730 --> 00:58:08,610

Oh, bring it, bring it.

00:58:08,670 --> 00:58:11,260

Okay, the fourth one is

about waste management.

00:58:12,279 --> 00:58:16,799

So, recycling just 10 plastic

bottles saves enough energy to power

00:58:16,819 --> 00:58:18,969

a laptop for more than 25 hours.

00:58:21,790 --> 00:58:25,370

Alexis Bonnell: Oof, the spicy one.

00:58:25,539 --> 00:58:26,540

I don't know.

00:58:26,610 --> 00:58:27,420

Um,

00:58:32,140 --> 00:58:33,290

I think you're tricky.

00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:34,100

I'm trying to think.

00:58:34,140 --> 00:58:36,000

Jasmine's a tricky, tricky lady.

00:58:36,060 --> 00:58:38,110

Uh, I'm going to say true.

00:58:39,770 --> 00:58:40,700

That is right.

00:58:43,155 --> 00:58:45,815

Okay, now, and now there's

pressure on public service.

00:58:46,365 --> 00:58:46,595

All right.

00:58:46,605 --> 00:58:47,685

There's 1 more question.

00:58:47,685 --> 00:58:48,575

So I'm going to hold my.

00:58:49,195 --> 00:58:50,915

I'm going to hold my, uh, my excitement.

00:58:51,084 --> 00:58:52,565

So, so they last 1 on me.

00:58:52,575 --> 00:58:52,595

All

00:58:53,025 --> 00:58:55,354

Jazmin Furtado: right, the last

1 is about public transportation.

00:58:55,895 --> 00:58:56,305

Okay.

00:58:56,464 --> 00:59:01,615

So, traveling by public transportation

is 10 times safer per mile.

00:59:01,865 --> 00:59:05,615

Than traveling by automobile and

00:59:05,695 --> 00:59:07,565

Alexis Bonnell: time safer per mile.

00:59:08,310 --> 00:59:13,380

Average trip of probably most people in

public transport is probably like 3 to

00:59:13,580 --> 00:59:16,899

5 miles, maybe 15 miles, I'm guessing.

00:59:17,745 --> 00:59:22,065

Uh, shout out to Manali Shah,

good friend of mine, amazing

00:59:22,065 --> 00:59:23,745

transport expert at Google.

00:59:23,915 --> 00:59:26,895

So she would probably know this

off of the top of her head.

00:59:27,265 --> 00:59:30,615

Um, I'm going to say true.

00:59:31,815 --> 00:59:32,265

Or it's true.

00:59:32,574 --> 00:59:32,604

Okay.

00:59:33,034 --> 00:59:33,324

Yes.

00:59:33,345 --> 00:59:33,695

True.

00:59:34,985 --> 00:59:35,015

Okay.

00:59:35,485 --> 00:59:35,745

Yes.

00:59:36,495 --> 00:59:36,845

I shouldn't have

00:59:37,125 --> 00:59:37,895

Jazmin Furtado: answered so quickly.

00:59:38,435 --> 00:59:39,575

I was like, I got it.

00:59:40,245 --> 00:59:41,885

Alexis Bonnell: It's either going

to be true or it's going to be like

00:59:42,035 --> 00:59:45,505

more, it's going to be like the

numbers off, but still I think true.

00:59:46,845 --> 00:59:48,585

Jazmin Furtado: Yeah, they

aren't like your confidence.

00:59:48,585 --> 00:59:49,635

I was like, all right, she's got it.

00:59:49,665 --> 00:59:50,045

Yeah.

00:59:50,085 --> 00:59:50,755

Wow.

00:59:50,795 --> 00:59:51,595

Congratulations.

00:59:51,605 --> 00:59:52,905

That was all five questions.

00:59:54,995 --> 00:59:57,725

Alexis Bonnell: This is what happens

when you get to play in public sector,

00:59:57,725 --> 01:00:01,285

because literally all of the things

you mentioned are public sector.

01:00:01,315 --> 01:00:06,535

And, and yeah, like you just get

lots of weird stuff in public

01:00:06,535 --> 01:00:09,245

Jazmin Furtado: sectors, learning by

osmosis, all the different people,

01:00:10,095 --> 01:00:11,385

Alexis Bonnell: has

anyone ever gotten them?

01:00:11,385 --> 01:00:11,925

All right.

01:00:11,955 --> 01:00:12,719

Like, do I get

01:00:13,010 --> 01:00:14,430

Jazmin Furtado: People only get like one

01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:15,390

Alexis Bonnell: or two right.

01:00:15,810 --> 01:00:18,600

I feel like I deserve, like, a gold brick.

01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:23,040

Like, I des I deserve, like,

a brick, and if you send me a

01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:24,680

brick, I will paint it gold.

01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:28,820

And I will put it on my thing, and

I will write in Sharpie, you know,

01:00:28,820 --> 01:00:34,200

like, the, like, Futures Jasmine,

like, first award y offer on it.

01:00:34,740 --> 01:00:35,600

Jazmin Furtado: Alright, deal.

01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:39,130

Brick and now I I have condemned

myself to sending bricks now

01:00:39,130 --> 01:00:40,420

in the mail, so I will do that.

01:00:40,660 --> 01:00:40,980

You have.

01:00:42,085 --> 01:00:44,885

Well, thank you so much for

entertaining this, this game.

01:00:44,955 --> 01:00:50,235

Um, and, and, you, your, like, reasoning

through it, I just really appreciate

01:00:50,235 --> 01:00:52,575

it, because that's exactly what I

envisioned when I created this game.

01:00:52,605 --> 01:00:55,435

Like, I wanted to see, like, how people

would piece apart, like, their...

01:00:56,085 --> 01:00:57,685

The rationale, so yeah,

01:00:58,635 --> 01:01:00,165

Alexis Bonnell: I went well,

that's that's knowledge, right?

01:01:00,165 --> 01:01:00,875

That's data.

01:01:00,915 --> 01:01:03,215

You literally saw me doing compute like

01:01:04,975 --> 01:01:06,925

Jazmin Furtado: Right machine

learning or something.

01:01:06,935 --> 01:01:09,915

Alexis Bonnell: I was I

was like, okay this happens

01:01:12,145 --> 01:01:14,295

Jazmin Furtado: I also wanted to

thank you as well for being my guest

01:01:14,295 --> 01:01:17,775

today, and we will share your journey

with all of us that your perspective,

01:01:17,775 --> 01:01:23,035

I think is greatly needed by folks

that are interested in this field.

01:01:23,035 --> 01:01:25,825

I've heard things about this field,

but maybe haven't wanted to take

01:01:25,825 --> 01:01:27,825

the lead to actually do something.

01:01:28,555 --> 01:01:29,605

So, yeah, it's been.

01:01:29,875 --> 01:01:33,785

Really fascinating to hear what you're

able to get your hands on and your stories

01:01:33,785 --> 01:01:36,485

have been amazing and so inspiring.

01:01:36,485 --> 01:01:40,525

So thank you for your service and

what you've done, not just for

01:01:40,575 --> 01:01:41,725

this nation, but for the world.

01:01:41,775 --> 01:01:46,325

So I know everyone listening on this

call, especially me, has learned

01:01:46,325 --> 01:01:50,115

something new, gained a new perspective

on public services for sure.

01:01:50,505 --> 01:01:51,065

So thank

01:01:51,065 --> 01:01:51,435

Alexis Bonnell: you.

01:01:51,885 --> 01:01:53,275

Well, do me a favor.