Welcome back to the doctor body mind soul podcast. My name is Dr. Jude. And this is a podcast which explores how we can integrate modern medicine and alternative therapies to help you get the holistic health care that you deserve. I will be speaking to healers and seekers, researchers and authors who will share their experiences and the evidence to help guide us all to Holistic Health. Let's do this. Barb Hawken, is the go to menopause fitness coach, helping women in midlife feel strong and sexy again, she believes making simple tweaks in the kitchen, and the gym can make all the difference to a woman's health and confidence. And she is here to tell us exactly what those tweaks are. So welcome, Barb. Hey, thank

you so much. Thank you.

Well, thank you for being here. I mean, I'm really excited to talk to you to get some really simple and clear advice about what I should be focusing on moving forward. Because, as an any doctor, I see many elderly people coming in with falls. And this is a major problem. It's relates to their balance, which is associated with strength. And it also relates to bone density, and bone health. And all of these factors, if we don't actually focus on them, now do cause really major health consequences in the future. And I see that with my own eyes and my own practice every day. So I'm really keen to talk to you about just what simple tweaks we can all make and adopt to keep ourselves strong. As as we age, this is just such an important important topic. So where would you say we need to start?

With Thank you. So really hate to say it, but we really need to start teens 20s, right? We think of longevity, a lot of us don't really think about it until it almost is too late. I mean, technically, it never is too late. But if you're listening to this in your 20s and 30s, or even 40s, and you think oh, wow, I need to do a little bit of research on this. Because the bones, we need to strengthen them before we hit let's say menopause, particularly post menopause. So the biggest thing is strength training over cardio, cardio is cooling, all right for your heart, but it's the strength training, meaning lifting weights, three to five days a week is always my hope. And you know, if you look at the medical research, scientific, that's what they say, as well. And so it's that strength training that builds bone density, because if you can head into perimenopause, menopause was strong bones, right, then you can just keep going with that through your nutrition through your strength training regimen, and really, really help yourself combat the risk of osteoporosis, which does, you know, occur and that incidence rises because of the lack of estrogen in menopause women.

So it's critical to build muscle mass through weight training. And also increase your bone density through weight training as well. Correct. What would you recommend to focus on? Are Well, actually, before I move into diet, like, you're talking about lifting weights, that can seem really quite intimidating, I think, to many women who haven't been exposed to that before. I mean, I wouldn't know where to start and I understand that they like working with someone like yourself who's got experience in in that would be a real value. But for so for someone listening. You know, what does weight training? What could weight training look like? You know, what does that make you break that down?

Right? It's it is intimidating because I grew up of course, without the internet, we didn't you know, when I was younger, and we only had Muscle and Fitness magazine, which was the real buff girls, right? Who worked out with a barbell or we had shaped magazine, I read Shape magazine. So even today, a lot of my clients because they are in their 40s and 50s and older, they have never worked out or haven't worked out in a decade. They don't feel comfortable in the gym, so they can start off with a home program. Every every women woman pretty much has five pound weights at home. It's just kind of what we have lying around. And they might have some bands and so if not, I asked them to get them because you can do so much with body weight, which technically is A weight bearing exercise, take a push up. If I can get you to do a military style pushup, okay, that might take a while, which means not on your knees and with your elbows correctly down beside your body not flared out because that'll just give you a shoulder injury that you see it all over the internet. Very incorrect, because you want to work your triceps, right? You want sexy arms. So if I can get a GAO to get into strong enough to get into a full pushup, that is a weight bearing exercise that is making her bones stronger, even without even lifting weights. But on my home program, let's say custom coaching, I designed all my programs for the gal you know what her equipment is, she has her her comfortability if she wants to go to the gym or not. So we use bands bodyweight and lightweight dumbbells. And as I'm teaching her, it's all online because she sends me videos and I tweak her form. And as I'm teaching her as she's learning how to live through proper form, then I do you know, cartwheels when she says I think I'm ready for the gym, because then she can do heavier dumbbells because dumbbells are very expensive. Now at the gym, she can have access to dumbbells, if she wants to learn how to work with a barbell, that would be awesome, too. I did not start working with a barbell and Talia was 50, I picked up part powerlifting when I was 51, just because I liked you know, the barbell, it was cool. And I just got the state record in the squat last month in the state of Florida. So I worked for that for four years before competing. And I my first competition I got it, most people aren't willing to do the things like that. And it's not necessary. I'm not a powerlifting coach, but I know how to tweak my client's form to perfection, because it's so very important. My whole goal is so that they can be mobile functioning as they get older. So just there's little tweaks and things that you can do every single day just taking that walk, finding an incline is so important walk on an incline a hill, get off the pavement, it's really, really important for your balance. And so that's why I do an assessment with all my clients, we put them let's see how they can do a bodyweight squat, I want to make sure that they can get down to parallel. And if not, then we assess okay, why can't they it's usually some mobility, they probably haven't worked out in a while it could be their ankles could be their hips. It's okay, because my powerlifting coach has a master's degree and he writes all of my one on one girls programs because if you're 40 or 50, you might have past injuries, you have something going on, and I cannot have anyone injured. Not only that, as we bring up weaker muscles, let's say triceps hamstrings, I guarantee that they're weak because they're weak on me, meaning my hamstrings are weaker than my quads as people, our quads will take over before the back of our thighs, right? And what happens is, then your yet low back pain, your knees ache because of that muscle imbalance, that discrepancy. And so on my program, we make sure that they are working. And I can tell by the way their actions are through the video, what the weakness is are. And then we put in other exercise like hamstring curls, things that we all don't like to do, even with a Swiss ball or something because they burned but I make sure that they get those or hip abduction, things like that I can tell if they're squatting and even a bodyweight squat and their knees are caving in, that means their hips are weaker than again, their quads and they're probably not using their glutes. So we put in certain exercises. And that's why very shortly they get not only toward their gains of losing weight getting stronger, but they can actually move so much better.

And that's the key really, isn't it? I mean, I think there is the piece of there is a piece of feeling sexy. And I think that's also really important as well in order. You know, as we as we get older, we want to feel confident, I want to feel connected to ourselves and that often related to that, but or, and I should say the, the key around like functioning and being mobile and being independent is such a driver, at least for me, in motivating me to, to work out and to, to say to to become strong. And it's really encouraging to hear that actually doing exercises at home and using our own bodyweight counts as weight training. I'd hadn't realized that before. So that's that that makes it look much less intimidating.

Well, very typically. Yeah, just kind of technically walking In is weight bearing versus swimming, right. So the mean is great for cardiovascular, but it's not a weight bearing exercise. So the so that's why like all my client wants them to walk, right they to get their steps. And also we know that 50% of middle aged women, they just don't get as much activity as when they were a little even a little younger. And so getting in steps, but yeah, that is weight vary but to progressively overload is the key, which really just means okay, if I did five pounds on a bicep curl, now, I'm gonna see if I can do another rep, because it's really difficult, especially as women too, you can't just keep adding a bunch of weight to bicep curl, you know, bicep small muscle, but the idea is to either, you know, increase weight or reps, reduce rest time, increase your intensity, there's many ways to progressively overload your body, your muscles, because your body will get very, very accustomed to whatever you're doing. So if you're doing the same thing for four weeks, you need to change it up because your body will not change. And my clients, usually they want their belly fat gone, right? Because in perimenopause, it starts. You know, let's say even in your early 40s, that shift because of the estrogen is getting lower and your hormones are getting imbalances that shift doesn't mean you're gaining weight, it's just the bat will redistribute itself around your body. When you're in menopause closer to when that is usually around 50 ish. You will lose fat and muscle almost overnight and creditable in your upper butt. And you need that there it keeps you know, keeps the booty shapely and in your legs if you've ever looked at like middle aged women, they have maybe a we call it the metal pot but very skinny legs. And what happens is because they're afraid to eat that most of my clients and they come on they just don't eat enough. You're an ER doctor so you know you may not talk about nutrition you know you're just there for an emergency. But women again goes back to what you're saying about diet culture for sure. I under eight overtrained. I just weight training for many years, okay. And I was tired, exhausted. But one of the signs of overtraining is denial. And I definitely did not write until I came up with my 15 foods that I eat, you know, lots of protein always. And my body changed within weeks, because I was already training, I just needed to add more food. But I was scared like a lot of my clients. It's it's kind of a body dysmorphia. It's just we're afraid to get back. And but they're consuming 11 1200 calories, that is it or less. And that's such a calorie deficit, because most people should be eating at least 17 or 18 1800 calories a day, that is just maintenance that is saying, Okay, I'm not going to gain weight, I'm not going to lose weight, I'm just going to remain here. But because they don't get all the activity and other factors, they still might gain weight, and then they think they're eating too much when it's really their activity. So it's a slippery slope is really difficult to get a girl eating enough when she does and when she trusts the process. Because the thing that happens the first 10 days is if I say okay, I want you to eat 300 more calories today, you know, every single day, even though she's still in a deficit, that the additional calories, the water, especially carbs is going to attach to the carbs. And she might have a slight weight gain on the scale, which gets in her brain, she starts freaking out thinks she's getting fat. When she's not, it's just my word, her body is finally waking up and saying, Wow, this girl is not starving. And so if she can get through that initial 10 days, potentially if you know she needs to eat more, then I will continue adding a little bit more food but she will she will lose one pound a week. That is always what I don't want anyone losing more than that someday. If you're if you have a lot of mass, say you need to drop 40 pounds, you can lose weight much quicker. But a lot of the gals they only have 1520 pounds, and they will absolutely lose one pound a week without starving.

Oh, you're saying you you can eat more and lose weight. It's much more of a focus on what you're eating, and also increasing the right types of exercise. So tell me about what I should be adding to my diet. You mentioned protein, how much protein should we be focused on eating? And I'm curious as to what proteins you tend to recommend.

So again, food and nutrition is highly individual to each and each person the way that our chemicals and our our bodies are made up but very generally is the protein is one gram in this, I know you're in London but one gram of protein per pound of body weight. Okay, so I don't really know, kilo grams I know I'm 52 kilograms, that's, I don't know, I weigh that much, but 114 113 pounds, but that is it because I treat all my clients as an athlete. So if America as an example, you might have had this overseas, the Medical Association's come up with a chart of how much protein you should eat as a human being, right? But they're usually not for athletes. So so now since you're not working out, right, five days a week, usually on my program, now you're an athlete, I treat you like an athlete, you need to eat like an athlete, or you're not going to gain muscle. So a lot of women, even when I say gain muscle, they're like, oh, I don't want to get big and bulky, that is kind of going away. So that I use terms is Okay, how about Lean sexy muscle? Yeah, I definitely want to I want to lean sexy body, I want that bar, I want to, I want to lose this belly weight, because that is the big thing. And I want tone. That's what they want. Tone is muscle. And so to do that, you definitely need to eat more i person 55. And so I eat more than one gram of protein, I eat closer to 1.2 1.3. Because not only I'm postmenopausal now. So now I'm trying to hold on to that to that muscle. And really, it's harder to gain muscle than it is to lose fat. People don't understand that. But what happens is, let's back to my calorie deficit. If you come on on my program, and I'll ask you a few questions. Do you think you're eating in a calorie deficit? Some women say, oh, gosh, I have no idea what you're talking about. What do you mean? And I said, Well, tell me about you. How much do you eat every day, and they start going, Oh, I had some egg whites for breakfast. And you know, a little bit of oats or a lot of intermittent fast and they only eat a couple meals a day I got for clients specially right? Because in residency, you know, it's like you're not fit, you know, one meal a day. And so I'm like, Okay, you just by telling me that I know you're not getting enough food, then we do things like My Fitness Pal, so I can really see what they're eating. And it helps them also realize, Wow, I only logged 1100 calories today. And I said okay, so we're going to add some more food in. So I wouldn't put them on a lower calorie diet because it wouldn't work. But that's what women do. They think, Okay, I'm eating this now. But I need to really lose belly fat. So I'm going to eat less, and I'm going to do more cardio, and it just stresses their body out, their body will not respond to that, okay, their body is thinking, Okay, I need to preserve some fat that sort of body does. Because I think this girl is kind of starving, we don't really know when her next meal is going to be. So I'm going to keep this fat around these very precious organs, which around the belly, and we're just gonna maintain here, okay, that's what your body does, your body wants you to be healthy. And so by adding some more food in which a lot of women need your metabolism, wakes up says Whoa, I got food for energy. This is awesome. And it starts rewarding you by speeding up your metabolism just a little bit, you're starting to feel better, you now can lift heavier weight, which then if you get enough protein, at least one gram, then you will start building some muscle.

So that's one gram of protein per

pound of body weight per pound

of body weight. Okay, I think there's 2.2 pounds per kilo and I think there is 14 pounds per stone. So for measuring that measuring with, but yeah, that's a lot. Actually. That's a lot more than I was yes. Can you to stay actually? And how would you recommend getting it all in?

Yeah, yeah. So um, the first thing is I eat like steak and eggs for breakfast. I had actually ground beef and ground bison this morning. I did have some oats. So a good 40. You want like, think about that? Do you eat three meals a day? Are you five meals a day? So first is trying to figure out how many meals you are willing to eat. We do know that protein needs to be in your body every few hours for that protein simulation. Okay, again, you're an athlete, right? You want to try to build a hot sexy body by getting on some lean muscle tissue. So you need to always have some protein. So if I'm going to eat four meals a day, which I usually do, I want you know, 120 grams of protein. So at least 3035 grams per meal. It's really not that difficult. I mean, you could have four ounces As a chicken, right, and then you're going to want to eat it with a complex carb, or at least some veggie, okay? It's just better together. I just did a Instagram post on that this week. But that's what you want to do. And so if you think about, Okay, I'm going to eat every three hours, small meals, these are not ginormous, on vacation at a steakhouse type of meal there, they're smaller, manageable meals so that you will be filled up, you'll have plenty of energy, but then, you know, you're going to be hungry in a few hours. And if not, yeah, I've had to force feed myself, because I needed more protein, right. And for longevity purposes. So as you get my age, I'm a huge longevity proponent is you don't want to eat three hours before you go to bed. It is difficult, especially for younger people, it is difficult for me because I have an Italian household. And so we normally eat late, you know, nine 930. And especially when we go to Italy, or eating Midnight's crazy, but on a normal when I'm at home, then I can control that, right, we can only control really when we're at home and be so disciplined, because like I said, Everyone travels, everyone eats out, I eat out all the time. And so thinking about that food during the day, okay, if I go out, I know I'm going to probably over consume carbs, because they're in everything, probably going to have some seed oil, so I'm probably going to be a little bloated. So I really need to be really disciplined today, yesterday, the next day, that sort of thing when you are at home. And if I want to go to bed by 11, which is kind of late, then you know, I need to make sure I'm stop eating by seven, you know, or 730. So it's just a few lifestyle changes doesn't mean you're going to hit it every night. I know that I can't hit it every night, you know that that stopping the eating. And so what you can really do is just you just have to kind of think about your food and meal prep a little bit. Not the whole week. I don't I like fresh food. But I do think about my day. Or let's say last night, okay, I'm really busy. Tomorrow, I'm going to make extra meat. Because meat is easy ground beef. You know, it's just so easy. And it's very easy to you know, get down quickly to we're all really busy if you have to eat in the car or something. And you could just pack that in a glass container around whether your salad green beans or something, even some white rice or sweet potato, your complex carb and eat that at work, you know, a couple meals like that. And it's just it's so much less stressful because then you're not starving when you get home and you're starting to grab anything and starting to snack,

huh? Yep, preparation really does really does help. Can you give us some tips on those, I don't really eat much meat. So what proteins would you be focusing on for those who are vegetarian or vegan Zeb, even who needs to increase their protein.

So I do have vegetarian clients. And so they usually cannot get the one gram because they would go over their calories. That is a challenge for them. And so they are eating their beans, even oatmeal has some you know has a little bit of protein, because I'm a huge proponent of non processed foods forever, right? No packaged foods. So vegan is too challenging. And but my vegetarian girls, they I had one she got 100 grams each day she did really well. She was extremely active though. She did it by yogurt, Greek yogurt, you know, she would do that eggs, you know, you have to either it's just a challenge. But they but they can do it. They just kind of tweak a little bit, you know, with the foods that they're already eating. That's what they do.

And just to sort of speak, speak on behalf of someone who eats a largely plant based diet. I think people who are in a largely plant based diet, who are focusing on whole foods are generally quite conscious of protein intake because they have to be it becomes a massive decision. So sneaking black beans into smoothies. Yeah, I do really regularly. I make bliss balls with black beans. So just to be really full of chickpeas, obviously again, of bulking out salads, but also of bulking out smoothies, which sounds super gross, but actually don't take tastes when you're Yeah, when you're actually making them properly. So. So there are lots of ways you can sneak in quite a lot of protein. I've never actually calculated how much protein I get in per day. But now I'm sort of feeling intrigued and curious to start thinking about tracking that because as you say, muscle mass is so important, and it's very evident in the ER when people don't look after that. So you mentioned belly fat being, you know, the biggest problem that menopausal women struggle with. Can you? Why does that become such a big problem in midlife?

Yeah, well, it's the hormone imbalance, which for me it did. You know, start in the 40s. Some gals you know, perimenopause starts in the 30s. But normally, some sometime in the 40, it's that hormone fluctuation, when we have that drop in estrogen, then what happens is, yeah, Belly belly fat does tend to come on. And it's very surprising because a lot of women are pretty fit. They're doing you know, exercises already, they might do Pilates, and they're like, Wow, what is you know, they see the change, especially when you hit menopause two years. So versus a man my husband's seven years older than me when they go through a similar, you know, aging process, but it takes 10 years, when their hormones become imbalanced. So they have plenty of time, you'll hear it go, Oh, I'm getting older, that sort of thing. But for us, it's so rapid. That's why I always tell gal, you can't wait, you can't you this is not the time to wait and see. And so the belly fat, they do so much. But it really is it's it's diet, you have to change your diet. 100% So anytime you eat out, you're probably faced with seed oils. Anytime you have preservatives, food dyes. BHT you know, GMOs, you know, any kind of fake food is definitely going to be detrimental not only to your health, but also it's going to lead to that bloat is really what it is. And so, you know, we travel a lot. So if I eat out, even though I say please, no seed oils, sometimes I can't help it, I just really don't know what's in your food. So if I get bloated, that's why it's so important to get, you know, stop that bloat in its tracks, when you're back home, I just put out a five day free, you know, gut reset, I just came out with it yesterday. But because it is such a huge thing. A lot of women, they might think it's menopause, that they're gaining weight, they blame it on menopause, it's not menopause, it's the combination of not changing your diet not continually to move like you used to, right, you're not getting in your steps and you're not exercising. And so because of this, you know, fluctuation in the hormones, you're not changing your lifestyle, even a little bit to counteract that. And so they do get this back fat, you know, they get the tricep jiggle, which can happen, you know, at any age for that if you don't work your triceps. And it's a real problem. And so that's why I help them with their diet. Really look at the diet, you know, really deep.

Hmm. seed oils. Tell me more because I've been seeing this kind of stuff show up on my Instagram feed and it's kind of new to me, what is the big fuss about see seed oils? Why should we be so concerned about them? And where? Where do they hide?

Yeah, so they are in probably almost all packaged foods. So is that hydrogenated vegetable oil. So I did a real a post on this. So a while back. So the seed oil star from Procter and Gamble, they are a huge soap company chemical company in America. And they had the run off from their soap and they didn't know what to do with this liquid. So they teamed up this was back in the early 1900s. They teamed up with this German doctor to make this liquid into a solid which was amazing at the time. And again, it was a chemical run off from soap and they then they marketed their very clever, marketed to housewives in the 1930s as a vegetable oil and they call it Crisco big in America. Okay, so basically, you know, they would actually pay these, you know, housewives to get aprons on that was the thing, then, you know, and do these print commercials for cooking with this newfound wonderful, you know, Frisco which is hydrogenated vegetable oil, very toxic came from chemicals and that's the invention of it. So it's canola oil. So we don't want things that we just want fresh butter, you know, cocoa butter, it's it's the best thing or olive oil if it's not too high, you know, hold At food, we don't really cook the butter anymore in restaurants, or bakery items package. That's why I don't like any kind of package. If you have something in your hand in a package and it says word healthy, very technically, my my version of healthy, it's not healthy because in a package, because if you can put something on your shelf for more than four days, and it doesn't turn moldy, it has some kind of preservative in it, to make it so it doesn't mold and usually is some kind of hydrogenated vegetable oil, helping it stay there. Most of us keeping the ingredients together versus butter. Or olive oil or something, you know, D Yeah. So that yeah, it's a big problem. Now, I don't know in London, you know, it's different. You know, I don't know, you know, your rules. I know in Europe, when I go see my family in Italy. That's not a problem. A lot of these parabens are outlawed over there. So I don't have to worry about it so much. In America definitely have to worry about it. Yeah, for sure. 100%.

And it's inflammation really, is the I guess it's our body's reaction to these natural chemicals, that then triggers a low grade inflammatory response within our guts, which then travels to our bodies, causing all sorts of health problems. Heart disease, cerebrovascular disease, everything else, there's so many consequences, some of which we just don't even know the extent of, to inflammation in our body and so much of so much of that is coming from a natural food products. So I'm really hearing you say is focused on a whole food, unprocessed diet. And the best way to the best way that a lot of people I think get confused by what that actually means. Like, what's a whole food diet? How would you describe to someone who may not be totally familiar with what our whole food diet is? To let them know, like what that means?

Yeah, the easiest thing is, especially in America, and I think I'm trying to think about the supermarkets, not so much in Europe, but if you walk around the perimeter of your grocery store, that's where all the real food is. You go into the aisle, maybe to get your rolled oats, you get your coffee, hey, other than that, at least this is the way it's set up here. You walk in you have the produce department. So especially in Europe, very few vegetables are packaged, they're always loose, right? You go there, you might go to the butcher, you you can you know, pick your meat right there. So all this is not in a package and you keep going you'll see your eggs, you'll see the dairy, the butter, you have to think of farm to table that's how I grew up, right. We were my parents, my grandparents were farmers. My mom was farmer's daughter back in the 70s and 80s. And this is how it is in southern Italy still today because they're like seven years behind behind the way I live, which is amazing. Because everything is fresh, you do not eat food that is not in season, and every single thing you eat is fresh. So it's very, very easy. And this is how it is a lot in the Mediterranean, the southern countries, it's really an American more westernized let's say well to do countries that were kind of in the pits, okay, it's it's our food is terrible, because of the choices that we have. And no one really eats this natural food. But I think a lot of countries that they have no choice they always eat natural food you're not going to have raspberries shipped from New Zealand like we do I can get any fruit that I want in any season and that's really not that great. So you're just thinking of things. Like you said, the vegetables the meats, you don't need a huge variety of studies have shown most people only really eat about 10 to 15 foods they just kind of eating the wrong 10 to 15 foods I only 15 foods when I'm at home very specific that I share with my clients if they want to know but it's very simple food prepared. Simply think of old fashion, you know, in butter, okay, and when you you know, I don't use any kind of sauces because they have preservatives in it right because it's in a bottle salad dressing. Right? It raises your triglycerides that is a known fact because of the ingredients in it. And so if you want your salad, how about you know, vinegar, right? balsalmic and some olive oil. So it's a simple way of eating. For your listeners in Europe. It's probably how they eat any weigh, really, because every time I've been an we're about to take our 26 European trip as a family. And so we travel around, you know, across the pond. And we love it over there because again, we don't have to worry about parabens, preservatives are in the food is fresh, you don't have to worry about going shopping grocery stores. And it really is quite nice. It's not as difficult as people think it is.

So they really are simple tweaks from what you're saying. The key messages are weight train, start with your own bodyweight walking is actually a really good start, use, use resistance bands, and build up from there form being very important, and ask for assistance to make sure your form is right. So that actually muscle groups that are not being worked, start getting some attention to really help with balance. And, and balance being so important as we get older. And to focus on diet or really as unprocessed as you can. And focus on protein. So protein with quite a staggering, quite a staggering aim of one gram per pound, a day of protein to really allow you to build muscle. So you want to build muscle to keep you strong. And strength really is the key both in your muscles and in your bones. As we get older, Have I missed anything? Would you give any? Good. So yeah, it really is simple. And there are simple tweaks to our what we do in the kitchen, what we do in the gym or at home, that really can make all the difference. So I think I can I think I'll be paying a bit more attention to all of those things moving forward. Right. So thank you so much for for sharing those with us. And you said you mentioned that you work with tell us who you generally work with.

I normally work with pairing and postmenopausal gals is because I am now postmenopausal. It's up on my website, or POC and wellness.com. And that's really who I work with some sometimes gals in their late 30s. Yeah, I mean, I always stress, get back in shape before menopause if you can, because it's not impossible. But it is harder, obviously, when your hormones are balanced when you're younger. And you do want to start always like today, I just want to you know, start incorporating today.

Hmm, and you work one on one and you work a search. It sounds like you work online, and use video support a lot. So anyone who's looking to get a bit more of individualized support and training could get in touch Correct?

Yes. Worldwide. I have clients in England worldwide. Yes, because it is video. It's how I train when my coach, I had no idea there was such a thing. And I wanted to work with my coach with powerlifting. And he's in Columbus, Ohio. And I thought, How am I going to do that? And turns out, there's apps This was during right before COVID. And I thought oh, what a brilliant idea. Right? And so he can see my videos, my form that sort of thing. And I thought that is really cool. So that and now there are many apps and I just use one of them. Mm

hmm. Well, I didn't know they existed that was really super well. That makes it really easy to get support from the from our own homes, if that's where we choose to work out. So yeah, that's great. Thank you so much. I'll put your website details and social media details in the show notes. And I really thank you for sharing your wisdom with us here on the podcast.

Great, thank you so much.