This podcast episode explains that real learning doesn’t just come from what happens to us. It comes from stopping and thinking about what happened and what we can learn from it. Mark Cheney talks about how people grow best when they are challenged to do better and also supported by others who care about them.

Mark explains that good performance is not just about using skills when things get hard. It’s about figuring out problems when things go wrong and staying calm enough to adapt. The conversation also points out a common mistake in mental performance, where people think they have a special “secret” that no one else knows. Mark believes real progress happens when people share what they know and help each other get better.

Overall, the episode encourages listeners to reflect on their experiences, work together, and remember that growth comes from caring about both the person and the performer inside each of us.

Takeaways:

1. The paramount importance of reflection over mere experience in the learning process cannot be overstated, as it significantly enhances one's capacity to derive meaningful insights from past encounters.
2. In the realm of mental performance coaching, fostering a supportive environment alongside rigorous challenges is essential in cultivating both human and athletic potential.
3. The interdependence of success behaviors, learning strategies, and performance assets forms a triad that is crucial for achieving excellence in both academic and athletic pursuits.
4. The digital age has profoundly affected attention spans, necessitating a renewed focus on teaching students how to manage their attention and develop self-awareness in order to thrive in various performance contexts.

We don't learn from experience.

We learn from reflecting on experience.

You need to challenge people to a high degree and then also provide the support of building a relationship and looking at the human first and the performer second.

Performance is executing skills and solving problems while under pressure.

I think some people in the field of mental performance sometimes think there's a secret sauce and.

And they get really protective of their business and.

And the reality is I think we're all better when.

When we share ideas that's ultimately going to serve our clients better.

Hello and welcome to the Evolving Potential podcast.

This is episode number 29.

Today I have in the show Mark Chaney.

Mark is a certified mental performance coach, also known as a cmpc.

With two master's degrees, both in educational leadership as well as performance psychology.

Mark also has an undergrad in biochemistry.

He has coached 13 state championship teams.

Mark has worked with athletes in nearly every sport, as well as business, leadership, and even AP classes.

After years of college, golf and basketball, at some point, he ended up at the Hogwarts for athletes, the IMG Academy in Florida.

He since built mental performance programs for schools, been a physics and chemistry instructor, and now the director of mental performance and a coach at Faith Lutheran in Las Vegas, as well as a business owner of Mark Chaney Mental Conditioning.

In addition, Mark is a published author, speaker, podcast host, and the organizer of the upcoming Las Vegas Mental Performance Summit next month.

Welcome, Mark.

Thanks, Todd.

All right, so tell me first about this Mental Performance Summit.

I mean, you got to be excited about it.

I know that's a ton of work you're doing.

You just kind of described to me off camera being busy all day, kind of working from seven to three, training people, from four to five, you know, athletes, that is from the school, then moving into private practice.

And now you're running some, you know, event by yourself.

I mean, that's a lot of work.

So tell me about that.

You know, so.

So you mentioned the time I spent at IMG and Pre Covid.

IMG used to host a think tank, and it was really just friends of IMG and people who'd spent time on campus there as well, that we'd get together and talk shop and share ideas.

And so that was in the back of my head.

Another event I used to go to was in La Jolla, again Pre Covid.

And so both those events kind of disappeared after Covid and in Vegas, you know, my initial goal was just to get together the people that are in the space of mental performance.

And it turns out there weren't many of us, really a couple of clinical folks.

I was the first CNPC in the Valley, but I just wanted to get people together to talk shop, share ideas and see if we could level things up.

And then that was two years ago and last year Jim Taylor approached me about being a keynote and so we brought him in and, and then the feedback I got from, from my attendees was we need more of this.

Can we go a second day?

Can we add to it?

So I said, all right, let's, let's see what we can do.

And so I called some friends and included some of my local contacts and, and then it's turned into a, a super exciting lineup.

I mean, I don't care if anyone shows up, if just the group of speakers get to hang out, we're going to have a great time.

That is awesome.

That is awesome.

What would you hope that if people do come naturally, obviously there's, there's some sort of take home, you know, is the, is the, let me ask first, I guess is the crowd kind of mental performance coaches you hope to have or would you hope to have more of the common people learning mental performance?

Yeah, we want a, basically a cross section of performance.

So certainly the mental performance folks, mental health folks, we want them there too because there's, there's a seat for all of us at that table.

Definitely want coaches who are looking to level up both their team's performance but then also just their own performance.

And then if there are, I've had some grad students who are interested in building those connections and network in the field.

So those people.

And then yeah, if, if there's somebody that is just really curious about what does this look like for, for me, what does this look like for my team?

You know, we're, we're all about learning and, and so if people want to learn and, and listen and, and share ideas at the same time, then, then they're certainly welcome to come.

So yeah, I, I do hope people show up and, and we've got a number of people that those registrations are starting to trickle in.

But it, it's really my goal is, is to sit there and learn and provide an avenue and a means for us to, to share ideas because I think some people in the field of mental performance sometimes think there's a secret sauce and, and they get really protective of their business and, and the reality is I think we're all better when, when we share ideas and that's ultimately going to serve our clients better.

And so let's not protect that.

Let's share that so we can help as many people as possible.

I love that you said that because honestly, that's what really started this podcast was I was a little bit uncertain which path I wanted to take.

Like private practice, kind of do my own thing or work for some sports teams or, you know, whatever I wanted to do.

And so I started reaching out to people doing it.

And I was actually shocked how many were just willing to just talk shop because they're like, oh my gosh, you want to talk about mental performance?

Absolutely.

And I'm like, no way.

Like, you know, some.

Some bigger names and things that I didn't expect to say yes to me.

And I'm like, this is awesome.

And I'm like, what if I record these?

Like, this would be amazing because then I can give value to more people from the conversation that we've had as well.

So, like, yeah, I'm right there in the same boat.

I think that you bring people together and you put good ideas together and everybody wins in the long run.

Exactly.

I love that.

So, okay, so I want to go into an epiphany that you had that got you into mental performance coaching.

How do you get into this line of work in the first place?

I would say I stumbled into was certainly not something I was pursuing or seeking.

It was a bit of a winding path to get there.

For golf in Nevada.

So my high school team wins the region tournament.

We set a state record for a low score.

I have a bunch of freshmen, really good players, and we go to the state tournament.

We play our worst round of the year at the state tournament, day one.

So.

So we go from state record to our worst round of the.

Of the year.

And.

And I gathered the girls together afterwards and said, okay, we played as bad as we possibly could.

Now we've seen the course, we know what to expect, we know what it's going to feel like.

Tomorrow is going to be a better day because we still had the lead.

We had a one stroke lead.

No way.

And.

And so we come back the next day and I'm feeling better about it.

And right from the start, I could see that this was not going to go well.

And it's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

I could see the.

The implosion happening.

I could see the frustration.

I could see the disappointment with the shots and how things were going and the tension.

And I said all the things that I knew as a coach at that time, but I couldn't pull them out of it.

So we finished second, which, you know, all things considered, is.

Is a good finish for any high school team.

But.

But I certainly felt like that was one we let get away.

And so, you know, golf is inherently mental, and I think more mental game books about golf have been written than any other sport.

So I start reading those and, and find my way into Golf Psych, which was a program started by John Sabler and Deborah Graham, who researched, what's the, I guess you could say the mental makeup of championship golfers.

So she had done her PhD research on performers and identified eight character traits that aligned with people who win consistently on tour.

So not just the one or two times, but people who are winning majors, who are winning season after season.

And so got to go to that certification and learn more about the golf side of things.

And then I was just reading elsewhere just in terms of trying to help my coaching and help my students be better academically.

I'm talking through a variety of things with a friend.

He said, oh, you're talking about sports psychology.

You should go back to school.

I said, oh, okay.

So now I have a name for what this is.

I'm just interested in, you know, performance and help helping people be better.

But now, now I've got a name for it.

And he said, you should go back to school.

And, and around that same time, I went to a.

A summit at IMG and somehow ran across my desk that there, there was a coaching workshop that was put on by their, their mental performance staff.

So I talked to my ad.

He funded the weekend trip.

I fly down there.

It's the first time I've seen img.

Like I said, it's Hogwarts.

It's Disneyland for athletes.

And in that process met one of the staff that told me about her grad program.

Like, oh, okay, that's a program I haven't heard of.

Let me go check that out.

And six months later, I was in the grad program.

And concurrently with, with that, I see an application for a summer position, img.

So I'm literally two and a half classes into my grad program.

And I said, well, I've been there.

That, that place is cool.

I'm going to apply.

And so turn the application in.

Was was fortunate to get selected to go down there.

So I'm, I'm working on my master's.

I'm spending all day in the mental conditioning offices right next to the tennis courts, watching top 10 players in the world practice, learning from some of the best mental performance people in the field, all with super diverse backgrounds and approaches and just absorbing it like a sponge.

And, and that, that's really how it got going concurrently.

I, I talked my school into helping pay for my masters, so they wanted something out of it and they said, let's offer a class.

So I, I offer a sports site class and I get 75 kids to sign up for it right away.

Geez.

So I, I literally leave IMG on a Saturday.

And, and so I've taught the sports side class now for a dozen years.

And then along the way, then the school started to see more value.

The athletic director was on board.

He helped create a position.

So I get a little bit more, a little more payment out of my time that I spend with those athletes, and then it's just incrementally grown and spread from there.

Jeez.

So, okay, so now I'd like to connect the dots between the golf psych program and the consistency in which you probably saw at IMG Academy and, and what we're seeing now.

And like Kurt Signetti and Mike McDonald, because I wanted to talk to you about that.

And so like, what does it take to build a championship culture?

Slash, what does it take to consistently.

Consistently, you know, be a champion?

Well, that, that's a number of things to tie together.

So, you know, I think, like, let's start with the culture idea.

You know, the NFL has what, nine, nine vacant positions that are being filled or have been filled.

And, and so every one of them is going to talk about culture.

A college coach gets hired, they're talking about culture.

So I think a lot of people talk about culture.

Culture, or we're going to create a culture.

And, and, and the reality is every team, every organization has a culture.

The question is, did you intentionally design that or not?

You know, just, just by default.

So there are, you know, lots of people who've written on culture, I think that, that are good reads.

You know, one, one I like is Jeff Jansen's work where he identified, I think eight different varieties of culture.

But ultimately I think there's a, if you put it more of a quadrant system of the level of challenge and the level of support, then I think that's a good starting place for culture.

So are we going to have a high challenge environment but not be very supportive?

Well, they're teams, especially professional organizations that run that way, but that can get really cutthroat, probably more on the high school or the youth sports side.

You're gonna see groups that are really high support and the kids have a great time, but they're maybe not very demanding.

And so the results don't necessarily show up on, on the field or on the courts.

I think you need both.

You need some, you need to challenge people at a high, to a high degree, and then also provide the support of, of relationship, of building a relationship and, and looking at the human first and the, the performer second.

And I get it, professional sport is about winning, it's about outcome.

But I think when you look at those various organizations, those groups that have placed a higher priority on the human connection have had sustained success for longer periods of time, as opposed to somebody that might win one championship.

But then it doesn't last because it doesn't have the strength behind it.

So that's a structure, I guess I like to think about, is that challenge and support.

But, but then that's going to look different for different people, different personalities and, and different paths are going to lead to those different approaches.

So, you know, Kurt Signetti's path is very different than Mike McDonald's path.

And I think that shows up in how they coach and, and how they approach things, but at the same time, they've got the, the intentionality behind it.

So, like the, one of the analogies.

I like to use analogies and metaphors when, when I work with people and, and when I teach and, and so I, I think culture is a lot like gardening.

I mean, the first thing, if you're going to plant a garden, you have to go to the, the nursery and, and pick out the seeds.

Like, I want to grow carrots or I want to grow broccoli, or I want to grow tomatoes.

Or you either pick the seeds or you pick the seedlings first.

And, and then you have to plant and you need some fertile soil and you need to irrigate that and fertilize that and grow and get those seedlings to take root or the, the seeds to sprout.

That, that has to happen first.

So you got to know what you want to grow first.

If you don't, then you're just like, hoping something sprouts out of the ground and it might be good and it might not be.

I find a lot of teams just kind of hope that their culture is good.

And, you know, oh, we have a great class of seniors this year.

So our culture is Good or.

Oh, we don't have strong leadership this year.

So the culture is not very good, and they're just hoping.

It depends on the players.

So I think you've got to identify really clearly what.

What you want that culture to be.

And then plant, and then you've got to water it.

And.

And with any garden, you're going to have weeds, so you need to pull some weeds and.

And get those things out.

And then as those plants grow and become stronger, more established, then.

Then you've got to have some.

An added level of support, you know, there.

You don't just let the plant grow wild.

You're going to prune and you're going to remove branches so that you get better airflow, you get better production of fruit.

And so in the same way as that culture is growing, you got to clip some things back.

You.

You've got to make sure you're shaping it the way you want to.

It might be growing, but let's.

Let's make sure it's growing in the right direction, the right shape.

And if you do all those things, then eventually you get that harvest and you build.

You.

You've grown something that's going to be strong and enduring.

And so that's the way I like to think about culture, of cultivating that for growth and thinking about what your crop, if you will, is going to be at the end.

That's honestly one of the most complex and, like, big answers while still being, like, so simple and perfect.

Like, it's like you're like, I can't really answer that question, but let me give you my four bullet points.

Like, it's like you had.

You had a very good answer for that.

So it's like the challenge is support.

So it's like.

It's very nuanced is what you're kind of saying.

It's like.

But understanding the balance between challenges.

Support is gonna be entirely different with every different room that you're in, every different athlete you're dealing with.

You know, to be paying attention to that, to be connecting with different humans, to be intentional, to be really doing all of those different things that kind of involve that gardening process.

Like, that's.

That was an amazing answer, by the way.

So thank you.

Yeah, you're welcome.

And.

And if we were going to zoom down now and go into an individual, I. I heard you talk about something.

The.

The big four that you use, the things that are in our control.

I would love to hear you talk about that.

Well, let me ask.

Would you say big four, like, Big part, Big part, Big four Parts of culture or are we talking about skills?

No, no, the individual level.

So like the breathing and things that we can control personally.

On an individual level.

Yeah.

When, when, when I first learned about this, I, the name Big Four, I think comes from the Navy SEALs.

And, and when they talked about that, that's, you know, your goal setting, your self talk, your energy management or physiology management with your breathing and, and then mentally rehearsing that, I, I actually like to go, I call it Big four plus one because I like to add in reflection.

So let, let's say I'm working with a team or an individual.

I like to think in terms of, let's prime for performance and let's prime ourselves for practice, let's prime for games.

And, and so I think using the big four is your priming process.

So I work with a lot of high school kids.

Their, their typical approach to practice is I get out of class, I check my phone, I talk to my girlfriend, I look at the time, oh, I don't want to be late, don't want to be the last one on the court of the field.

So I'm going to run over, throw my stuff in the locker room, throw my gear on, get on the court.

Okay, what are we doing today, coach?

And, and if, if we're honest, because one of, one of my college teams I've worked with, that kind of the same thing is happening.

So, so I think we've got to be better at preparing for that.

So let's finish the day and then get present to what we're about to do.

So we've got to leave the day behind.

I, I say you got to take the backpack off.

So the backpacks, your day, take that off, set it aside.

We've got to get present.

And using the breath is the, I think the best way to do that.

And so it doesn't take long, just take a minute to really get where your feet are and focused on what you're about to do.

So we're going to get present, we're going to think about what's our goal for practice, like what are we trying to do, why are we here today?

And I think a lot of athletes show up without really knowing that they let the coach set the purpose for the day.

Or it's Tuesday, I go to practice.

It's what we do.

And so let's have an intention for practice.

I'm going to get better at this skill or we're going to get better on offense, or we're going to make improvements in this tactical approach or whatever.

It's, let's have an intention behind what we're about to do and then spend some time visualizing the execution of that.

That goal.

So again, that doesn't have to take a lot of time, but let's mentally rehearse what we're about to do and then have a plan for how we're going to talk to ourselves through it.

Do we have specific instructional cues we're going to use that are maybe on the technical or tactical side, or is it more on the motivational side?

I need to get through this conditioning drill or this thing I don't really like, but I know I need to get better at.

So how am I going to talk to myself?

So I think if athletes do those four things, they're going to be far more successful in practice and likewise in games.

And then post practice, then the reflection piece is vital.

I asked a group of students this recently, what do you do after practice?

And they're like, check my phone, shower, go eat.

Okay, so let's not just leave practice because the purpose of practice is to learn.

Let's think about what happened there.

So what did I do well?

What could I have done better?

How am I going to be better at that tomorrow?

And now we get a cyclical effect because that can drive the goal for the next day.

And, and then we, we've also got to think about what was fun, what did I learn?

Like, those things should be happening too.

If they walked out of practice and didn't learn something about the game or themselves or, or left a game and, and it wasn't fun, then we need to figure that out too.

So then that reflection becomes really important to, to learn from it.

One of the, one of the ideas I like is this comes from John Dewey, is we don't learn from experience.

We learn from reflecting on experience.

And I think that that's really true.

Yeah, I'll go draw on my golf background.

I've seen people that have been on the driving range for 40 years.

They have lots of experience, and they're terrible because they've never learned anything.

They just keep repeating the same thing, hoping that they're going to get a different result.

And so rather than coming with a purpose for that practice session, learning something in that practice session, reflecting on what they need to do, and then setting a plan to change it the next day, like, so I, I think that reflection piece has to be part of the process.

How do you get to the point of feeling confident enough to create Curriculum and just speak so freely, like what?

I can just only imagine the first time you went through, like I'm creating the curriculum for this whole school.

Like talk me through that a little bit.

Well, you know, I, I am a teacher, so it kind of comes with the territory.

So I had that background, you know, when I started the sports side class, I, I think I've been teaching for 14 or 15 years.

So.

So some of that comes with just the idea of lesson planning, of thinking through things.

And then all teachers are master thieves.

You know, we beg, borrow and steal and then we adapt.

So what, what I could get my hands on from IMG in terms of the curriculum that they use there certainly helped me.

We essentially had two weeks of curriculum that we would repeat through the course of the summer.

So I had, you know, that's 10 lessons now in an average school year I have 85 lessons.

So that first year you're just, you're just staying one day ahead of the kids.

And so I definitely had a framework of what I believe developmental performance, the direction and a progression of core ideas.

And, and then you flesh it out.

You, you research and you dive and, and that first year especially it was, you know, literally, let's just stay one day ahead and, and plan things out and let's try these ideas and research and, and find additional activities and video examples and games and let's plug that in and see how that responds.

And then you edit and sometimes you edit between classes.

Well, first block didn't go so well, so let's, let's try this second block and we're going to scrap this or.

Oh, I mean the best, best case scenario on those days was when I was over planned.

And you know that that's advice I give to anyone who's, who's planning a group session.

Plan more than you think you have time for because sometimes you might have to use all that and, and you don't want dead air and be finished up and, and then if you're over planned now, you've got a head start on the next day.

So that, that's really how it, how it went.

And then yeah, it was just the experience of teaching it and then fleshing out ideas and, and then I like to read and, and find different sources and, and I, I'd find resources and activities in random places.

You know, I, I don't anymore.

But for a long time I still had a physical newspaper every morning and so I'd pull great stuff out of the newspaper, things like that or things that people would post on social media or that would spark an interest and then I go learn a little more and then I just cobbled it together from a variety of things.

But having the framework I think is really the important part of, of thinking what's your progression, what leads to what leads to what?

And you know, in, in academic terms it's your theoretical framework.

That's not language I typically like to use.

But if you have that understanding then, then you build, build around it.

And what stories come to mind as far as you seeing that this is now working like you've, you've implemented it.

You know, I'm sure I can only imagine these are high school kids.

Like when it works it probably somewhat noticeable.

Yeah.

I mean it's, there's the temptation I think to anyone that's in the business of we want a championship and it's because of what I did and I, I think that that's a dangerous place to be.

I, I think we play a really small part in, in the success of teams.

And, and actually one of my speakers at the summit said this a couple years ago, like if you're willing to take credit for the wins, you better be there when it doesn't go so well either and, and understand that and, and you better be around for the losses too.

So I, I think the, the best metric for that because this is always the question I get, well, how do you measure your, your impact?

Yeah.

And it's not, it's not like you're 40 time or your bench press that we can see that that number improved.

So for me it's always when, when somebody says this worked like I did something that I couldn't, we handled this situation in a different way and, and we got, we got over the hump.

When somebody's parents say to me, you know, we can see the difference in how they're reacting and responding on the field and they're having more fun and they're enjoying it.

So I'm not going to argue with mom or dad and, or I'm not going to argue with the coach.

And they say this was helpful and this made a difference for us.

The one, one thing that I always like to listen to as well is do I hear the language being used by coaches or by athletes?

So if, if they're stating it without any prompting from me, it's become part of their, their vernacular, then, then you know that they bought in and now it gets really impactful.

So I'll give you one example.

I was working with our cross country team this fall and they.

And so there's an idea that I was using with them about the pain cave, which is an idea that comes from Courtney Dahl Walter, who's a ultra marathon champion.

And so we had talked about the idea of the pain cave, and, well, a couple of weeks later, they saw me out on the track just running for myself.

And so they're.

They're cheering me on.

Of, embrace the pain cave, enter the pain cave.

And they're just repeating the same things that I had said to them in our session.

So I knew they had absorbed it, and I knew they had taken that to heart.

So, you know that those are the kinds of things that I think are more gratifying even than.

Than seeing a team win.

But.

But they did win state too, so there was that payoff as well.

It sounds incredibly rewarding to work with the schools.

And so that makes me wonder, from a personal, maybe entrepreneurial perspective, is that an environment that you see yourself staying in forever?

Are you trying to transition into private practice?

I can only imagine that could be so difficult because you have to leave that.

Because behind.

I. I don't know.

So talk.

Talk to me about that.

Yeah, I mean, you're not the first person or probably not the last to ask me that question, because let's even step outside the sport aspect of it.

When.

When I got in this field, I was not thinking about academic implications at all.

I just wanted my teams to play better.

And.

And then when I came back and I'm sitting in teacher meetings, all of a sudden I'm just looking at the conversations in it through a different set of lenses.

Well, why doesn't Johnny do his homework?

Well, that's.

Because it's a motivation issue, or maybe it's a mindset issue of Johnny doesn't believe he's capable of doing his homework, so therefore, why even try?

Or maybe it's a matter of resilience or how do they talk to them?

So all of a sudden, I had a different language to talk about some of the academic implications or academic performances I was seeing from students.

And so over time, then.

Then I, you know, started embedding sports psych into my chemistry class and, and talking to other people on campus about how mental performance could be useful, not just for the athletic department.

So I'm biased.

I. I think every school should have a mental performance coach.

You know, we're.

We're not really talking sports psychology.

It's really just life psychology, because every day is performance.

So why not equip everybody, not just our athletes, with the Skills to be successful in the moments that matter the most.

So I think there's such opportunity in an academic environment to do those things.

I'm also interested in spending as much time as I can on mental performance.

And so it's something I explore from time to time of thinking, well, what would this look like to go solely in private practice?

So it's not that I've never considered that.

I definitely think about it.

I, I do enjoy the, the long term relationship with coaches and, and building program expectations.

So there are teams now that just know this is what we do.

So it is now become normalized to work on the, on their mental game.

It's mental Monday.

We know we're meeting with Mark.

Like it's not even a conversation and the upperclassmen can tell the underclassmen what we're doing in those times.

And so, so I, in the same man, we have very experienced coaching staff and, and so the, the opportunity to have those long term conversations and do some, some deeper dives on coaching development.

That's interesting to me as well.

So you know, when, when I, when I was at img, Justin Sua was one of my supervisors and familiar.

Yeah.

And he would, yeah.

You know, one of the best known names in the field and, and he said, you know, people would ask me, what's your five year plan?

He said, I don't have a five year plan.

I, I just stay open to possibilities and willing to listen and explore and, and I think that's kind of where I am the eyes.

Eyes will stay open to, to possibility and, and see where I may be called to, to do work.

But right now that's, that's Las Vegas and, and so we'll see what happens next.

I love that.

And I'm glad, really glad you brought up the academic implications.

Not necessarily because that interests me per se, but it's just the fact though.

Hold on, you're breaking up.

Okay.

Oh, it's just the fact that these implications go across everything.

So that's where it gets a little tricky when you get into the entrepreneurial space.

From my own opinion, where it's like, okay, life coaching.

Because you said it's, it's not sports psychology really, it's.

It's life psychology.

Yeah.

So in reality it's like, it's, people are like, oh, is it life coaching or is it like mental toughness or like what is motivation speaking?

Yeah, yeah, it's very confusing.

So like I said, I know I love mental performance and I feel like it's the closest thing because it's not because sports psychology insinuates the psychologist, since it insinuates generally the PhD experience licensure, all those things, at least in my mind.

And so saying that to performance leaves it a little bit more open ended, you know, and so for me it's like, but at the same time trying to explain, oh, it's mental performance.

And, and I get a lot of different, you know, answers all over the place with what they believe that is.

And so it's been an interesting conversation to have with coaches, like how do you even, how do you even explain mental performance?

Because I'm sure you have to have that conversation regularly.

I'd love to hear your words.

I mean that, that's a whole can of worms in itself because the field kind of struggles with what do we call ourselves.

And you know, like as you correctly said, we can't call ourselves a psychologist because that's a clinical designation, requires licensure.

And, and so sometimes people will call me the psychologist and like, well, I'm not a psychologist, here's why.

So, so there is a certain level of education to it.

But you know, and different people have different opinions.

Some, some people want to go, I'm the mental toughness trainer or the, the mental skills coach.

Or some people don't want to use mental at all because they, they feel there's some stigma there.

When I was at, at ASP back in Montreal in, in the fall, one of the keynotes mentioned there, she'd done an analysis of the different titles people were using.

And I think there were over 200 different titles that people have come up with.

So I, I do think it's important to narrow things down.

So I, I like to talk about what's performance.

Let's start there.

So you know, performances, executing skills and solving problems while under pressure.

And if you keep that definition, well, that's certainly sport.

But that could be the arts, that could be your MCAT or ACT or LSAT or any kind of standardized test where you have to perform.

It could be an audition for a play, could be a job interview, could be asking somebody out on a date.

Those are all performances.

And as humans we all tend to feel the same thing in moments that matter to us and whether it's consequence or evaluation or others that hold some level of consequence to it.

So since it's all performance, then let's call it that.

And now we're, now we're going to break that down and we're working on the mental skills that help you be your best in those moments, just as your strength and conditioning coach is helping you with the physical skills and your sport coach is helping you with the technical skills, we're just building the skills necessary to help you perform at your best.

That's perfect.

You nailed it.

You've had some practice doing that.

Thank you for doing that.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about it.

So for me, one of the things I noticed was like, how generally, at least, because I've actually talked to a few NFL athletes and things like that as well, and the, the amount of exposure, the amount of experience they have around a sports psychologist is more so like they very rarely hear from the sports psychologist.

It's kind of more like a go see it when you need it.

And so it's a more of a reactive versus a proactive.

And I really, like, love that's why, like, I kind of gravitate towards mental performance.

Was like, how cool it is to teach someone the skills that they need before these crazy issues come up, you know, rather than like, oh, okay, well, here's what happened.

Let me, let's talk it out and let's, you know, here's what you're dealing with and like diagnosing and talking about the past rather than being, knowing how to be present.

Yeah, I call that.

It's the difference between being a Mason and a mechanic.

A Mason is going to lay a foundation that you can build on, and that's certainly the way I prefer to work.

Let's work preseason.

Let's build capacity so that now when you're building that structure, you have something solid to rely on.

But a lot of people still view the field solely from a fix it mentality.

Let's call the mechanics something broke, now we've got to fix it.

Which only gets you back to status quo ante.

It doesn't move you forwards, it just gets you back to where you were.

And, and there's certainly place for that, too.

Inevitably, in the course of a season, something's going to arise that was unexpected or a new challenge, and we may need to work on that.

And so I think it's easier though, to do some of that work if you've got the foundation laid in the first place.

So I, I think there's, there's space for both.

And, and I think people are slowly starting to look at this more and more from a, a strengths perspective as opposed to a treatment perspective.

Like, like actually kind of putting into practice and understanding that they can improve it.

Right.

Yeah.

That's huge.

And that's What I kind of started noticing, I got into this line about five years ago, maybe six now got to Trevor Moad, kind of got me down this path and, and yeah, I just like realized how, how consistent that these, these principles come up through every single thing.

And I just wanted to figure out a way to make them a part of my life and every single thing that I did.

And so I'm curious like just knowing that you've learned so much from a coaching perspective and that there are coaches all over the country who have not come up this route, who have come up with the technical expertise, you know, maybe some, but not necessarily having any sort of understanding of like how we self sabotage and, and things like that, you know.

So what is something that you wish every coach around the country just kind of understood?

I think with, with all coaches I would hope they would intentionally and, and deeply consider why they do everything they do from practice design, drill selection, offensive, a defensive strategy, player relationship.

Like what, what's the why behind that?

And, and even what's the overarching purpose behind the even deeper asking the why?

Well, why do you coach?

Like what is your purpose in that?

I think there, there are two pieces there.

Because the, the why of what you're coaching.

Are you just solely coaching to win games or sometimes to advance your career, to gain notoriety, to get a bigger contract?

I mean that, that becomes very transactional.

And, and so I'm of the opinion that the coaching should be transformational instead.

And, and so let's think about what's, what's the why we're here and then what's the why of every drill or every activity, every part of our program.

And the reason I say that is in this country so many coaches sole education in coaching is their experience as a player.

And I call it waterfall coaching because they coach the way they were coached.

And you'll see this in how a coach will react to, to a mistake or a bad play or a bad call.

Or they'll start saying the exact same thing that their coach probably said when they were playing 20, 30 years ago.

They'll use the same drills that they learned 20, 30 years ago and they might even run the same offense or the same skill 20, 30 years because if they haven't really had much education then they're going to use what they know and what they know is what they've experienced.

And I can't think of another profession that's using 20 or 30 year old approaches without really considering it.

So I don't think the American sport world Does a great job of educating coaches.

I think it's much better in Europe.

I think Australia probably does it better as well, where there's more intentional path to coaching.

I hear lots of people, well, you played.

You could be a coach, or in youth sport, you didn't have to play.

If you're just willing to coach.

Yeah.

Then, then you do it.

So I, I think the, the considering the why, what you're trying to accomplish in the, the bigger picture, the grand scheme of things, and then also on a more granular level of why am I doing each of these things?

Just examining that.

I would love to have that conversation with every coach I work with.

Then on that note, if you would mind, why would you say that you continue to do this?

So my why of mental performance or my why of coaching?

I mean, they're, they're closely linked, but.

Sure, how about both?

Okay.

So when I, I think about this, I'm, I'm definitely looking at it from a transformational side of things.

You know, my, my purpose is to help people get better at what they love to do, so they can thrive in the moments that matter.

That's my goal.

Now, there's an underlying piece to that, too.

You mentioned my bio.

I teach at Faith Lutheran, so we're a Christian institution.

And so in that we're also trying to not just coach for excellence, but coach for eternity.

So there's also a faith development side of things that, that's really important to me.

So when people do things with excellence, it provides them with the credibility to influence other people.

And now you're providing an opportunity to talk about your, your faith.

And, and for us, that's, that's our faith in, in what Jesus Christ has done for us.

So that's a, the, the undergirding and overarching purpose behind all, all that I.

Do, I very much appreciate you sharing that.

And I'm curious.

I know you do some public speaking, and so what would be, you know, two or three topics that you kind of speak on, or if you'd mind just speaking a little bit on one of those topics.

So I'm familiar with, you know, what's familiar in your mind.

So, I mean, one of the things I'll do are parent talks is, is just helping.

And the way I like to frame it is helping your kids be more successful.

Because I, I will come into a room and I say, you want the same thing that the coach wants, which is the same thing I want, which is for your kid to be successful.

Now we've got to make sure we define what success is and, and make sure that we're all doing things that all are supporting the success of your athlete.

So coaches like it because I can say the things to parents that they would like to say, but it, the parents are much more receptive when it comes from me as opposed to coming from the coach.

So, so parent talks would be a, a big one of how do you help your kid be more successful?

And, and that can range from things.

What do you say before a game, what do you say during a game, what do you say in the car ride home after the game?

What's, what do you view your role in, in their athletic performance?

What's their goal?

What's your.

So having those conversations with parents because just like we don't do a great job of training coaches in this country, there's no manual for how to be a sports parent either.

And so they just kind of look around and they see well Tiger woods dad did this, so I must do the same thing.

Or Johnny down the street got a scholarship.

So we need to be exactly like them and they've got to come up with their own method.

Their, their plan for that.

So, so that would be one that I really like because I think parents are really hungry for that information.

Does someone put that together, if you don't mind me?

Like this.

Is there like a place where all the parents come together or is that more like a one on one type of thing?

That would depend on an organization.

So you know, I worked with a dance studio a couple years ago and, and so we offered a couple of, of evening talk.

Their kids are a dance class and nice.

I had an hour with the parents or it could be in a preseason meeting with a coach or, or just workshops.

It's, it's something that we're further exploring how to do on campus too of how to, how do we help our parents be better because some, you know, sometimes parents make the sport experience less than enjoyable for their kids.

And at the end of the day you want kids to still love their parents, parents to still have the kid and then still love the sport, even if they're only going to play in middle school or high school.

But you want to want that to continue.

So I, I think that that's one that I enjoy.

You know, something else is as going back to the, the big four plus one.

I just call that mental performance 101.

I'm going to do that for our faculty in a couple of weeks actually.

But I've done it at teachers Conferences.

I've talked growth mindset with, you know, at the foot, at a football coaches conference, education conferences.

I've talked about how to.

I just call it a performance blueprint that integrates the mental performance in academic performance.

But then, then I, I've.

I've created a model around that as well that, that I've been trying to share with schools that, that I, I kind of stumbled into that one too, that we could, we could certainly talk more about that blueprint if we have time.

But you know, that, that's another one that I'll, I'll talk to educators and, and coaches about.

I definitely want to come back to that in a second.

So I, I thought it was really cool that you're doing the parent thing, because I've only actually, I've talked to, you know, this is my 29th episode, so.

And before that, I'd probably had at least 10 or 15 of these conversations before I was smart enough to record them.

But I've talked to only one coach who works with this relationship between parents and kids who actually, like, kind of, it's, it's a, it's just interesting.

I haven't heard anybody else do it, but he kind of has a relationship between where he is doing a session with the kid and the session with the parent.

And so he' going through and, and kind of figuring out what the kids saying, figuring out the parents saying and acting as like a middleman between them.

And it's very interesting because, like, another one of my, my clients is now a mental performance coach in Belgium.

And he talked about how, like, that's what he got, that's what got him into it was the ride home.

Like, he used to get these rides home that like, if he lost, like, there it was silence.

It was like negative energy.

It was like he just dreaded that.

And so he was fine.

Found himself more often thinking about that during the game.

If you start, if you like, start to lose, you're like, oh, no.

You have this huge association with, like, what the energy is going to be like now.

And so that's something I heard you talk about that I absolutely loved that I wanted to make sure we touched on was how people are telling themselves these stories in the moment of, you know, what's going to happen.

Oh, now I'm going to tell this.

They're already like, formulating the story in their mind.

And when you were telling that, I was like, I talk about that and I haven't heard anybody else really talk about that.

Like, I'm always like, this is the story.

We're building the story and stuff.

So, like, yeah, if you would talk on that, I would, I would love that.

Oh, well, I, I think golfers are maybe the worst at this.

And, and so that, that's certainly where, where I think around it because I, I can pretty much predict the story I'm going to hear from, from a player as they're coming off the 18th green based on their body language.

You can kind of tell they've got a little pep in their step or, or they're just dragging off and they're glad it's over with.

But the story is, well, I got a bad bounce on three, and then I lift out for birdie on seven, and then that pin position was ridiculous on nine, and then I smoked my drive but hit a sprinkler head.

And so they're coming up 18 and they're ready to tell their story because the first question that someone, everyone's going to ask them is, well, how'd you play?

Which is code for what you shoot.

And, and so they're ready to justify why they shot the number they shot.

On the flip side, they might be playing really well.

Eagled 1.

And then I made a really good up and down on four to keep the round going.

And then on, on eight, I stuffed it, knocked that in.

And, and so now they're, they're coming up 16, 17, 18, getting ready to tell all their buddies how great they played.

And so they're, they're getting ready to recount that story.

And then that's typically the time where they lose focus and then dump it in the drink, make double on 18.

And now the story is, wow, I was killing it.

And then I made, I finished double double or something like that.

So there's a lot of time to, to be an author out on the golf course.

And so it's, you know, we're trying to remind our players all the time to, okay, we're playing this shot and this hole, and at the end of it we can tally it up.

And then, then let's again go back to reflection.

Let's review what happened, but it's certainly the.

Creating the story.

And sometimes you even hear people's write the story before the game starts or before the performance.

Well, I was sick this week and I didn't get much sleep, so I don't know how today's gonna go.

Like, they're, they're creating the.

Just in case if I don't play well, then I've already explained why I didn't Play well.

It's been a while since I got out to practice.

You know, adults do this especially.

I just, you know, I haven't.

Haven't touched the clubs.

There's been too much work.

You know, they're setting themselves up to provide an excuse for when they don't hit a good shot instead of just accepting, I'm gonna hit good shots, I'm gonna hit bad shots, I'm gonna get good bounces, I'm gonna get bad bounces.

That's.

That's part of the game.

So, yeah, you don't want to be composing in any stories while you're playing.

Gosh.

Okay, so what.

What is your tactic for helping people to stop composing stories while they're playing?

I think the first thing is you have to recognize you're doing it.

Let's build some awareness of that.

And are we looking at facts or are we looking at a story?

At a judgment that we've created.

I mean, you mentioned Trevor Moad, like, getting to neutral.

Let's.

I like to talk about.

Let's look at objective facts.

So one of the exercises I'll do is, is I have a picture of dots that I'll put up.

And.

And most people look at it, and I say, what is this?

And they say, it's a Dalmatian.

Okay.

If I connect the dots and outline it, yes, it's in the shape of a dog, but what is it?

Well, it's just dots.

If we can drill down to it, it's just dots.

That's what it is.

Let's look at the facts of what's happening instead of creating meaning and.

And judgment around it.

So let's look at the practicalities of it.

I sucked on the field today.

Well, okay, that's a story.

You went 1 for 4 and had two strikeouts.

So that's just a state.

This is just what the facts are.

And.

And so we're trying to.

To make it as neutral as possible, as objective as possible, and take that evaluation.

And with that tends to come a lot of emotion, too.

Let's just be a little more coolly rational about what's really happening here.

And that takes time.

We have thinking habits just like our other habits, but that's just a question to continually ask is, like, what are we seeing here?

And.

And what's.

What are the facts of the.

The situation?

Let's.

Let's make this objective and then evaluate from there.

And so now, having coached both golf and basketball, you know, we got like a.

What the terminology is, like, open loop versus A closed loop.

Yes.

Kind of a, kind of a thing.

Right.

So will you, will you talk on that?

We.

I think golf is the most mental sport because there is so much time that you're capable of thinking and you get to hit one shot and then now you have multiple minutes to think about what just happened and then deal with the consequences of what happened.

And there's no substitution.

You just have to play it out.

You've got to deal with those consequences all the way through.

But you know, in a round of golf, if we're lucky, it's four and a half hours.

In a competitive round, most competitive rounds are longer than that.

Out of that time, a good golfer is actually in motion for about 70 seconds.

No.

No.

So what are you doing for the rest of that time?

Wow, that's perspective.

Wow.

Now with basketball there's, there's less time to stew, there's less time to think about it because it's back and forth, it's up and down.

You make a play, you, you lose the ball, you run back, you just inherently are going to run back on defense.

So you don't have as much time to think until you get to the free throw line.

And now you get to consider what are the consequences of this, especially towards the end of the game, what are the, the results, what are people going to say?

How are they going to react positively or negatively based on how I perform?

And so all of a sudden you get much more of that golf like experience at the free throw line than you would in more the free flow flowing nature of basketball.

So they, they provide different challenges.

And so sometimes I'm trying to get my golfers to play more athletically like a basketball player.

And, and sometimes I'm trying to get basketball kids to think a little more rationally and, and intentionally like a golfer too.

So I've, I've actually found, you know, over the time that I coached, I started adapting drills from both sports in opposite directions.

And I mean, that's some of the fun of coaching for me too.

Yeah, it's gotta be cool.

I know, because, because you hear you are coaching on both sides of the spectrum, like you said.

And so I was kind of curious what some of the tools would be.

I guess maybe just one or two tools that would be different perhaps from basketball than it would be for golf.

I, you know, to give you an example, one of my, you know, interviews, past interviews, he had a, his name is Graham Betchart and he talked about next play speed because he, he does mostly basketball.

And so it was like, how.

Because the next, on to the next play, on to the next play, onto the next play, like.

And so with golf, I mean, I'm sure that's part of it is like on to the next, on, you know, but at the same time, like, you do have all that time, so it's a little bit different.

It's not a speed factor, it's just a, you know, eventually you'll get over it.

Yeah.

By the time you do your next.

Shot, hopefully it's where you're choosing to focus on.

And I think with, with both, both sports, but in a different way, it's, it's attentional direction.

So many people think, well, I need to focus the entire time for a round of golf.

Well, the human is not capable of focusing for that four and a half, five hours of extended deep focus.

And so it's a matter of having a very narrow focus when I'm about to hit a shot and then allowing my focus to broaden after the shot.

And so can I be manipulating and directing my focus at appropriate times between shots?

Yes, let's, let's talk about the basketball game.

Let's look in the backyards at what kind of backyard kitchen setup they have.

Let's talk about the weather, you know, whatever, because we don't need to be focused at that time.

And that helps maintain the mental energy you need to focus then when it really is that time shot.

Now some of that's personality a difference too.

You know, certainly some golfers are, are more extroverted.

They just like to talk more and, and they're going to, to take that approach and constantly be talking throughout and through, around.

And then some others are, are more introverted and they're quieter and they like to just be a little more in their bubble and, and that's fine too.

But even so, you've got to find ways to broaden that focus, narrow that focus at the appropriate time.

You know, with the speed of basketball, I think can sometimes lead to not thinking.

And it can become very reactive because you just, you're back and forth, back and forth.

And I think you have to create a little space in there for some of that thought process to occur.

So that means having a routine to use, be at dead balls, for example.

So rather than going up and down the court, up and down the court, up and down the court, not really thinking about how the game is flowing, what's the offense doing, what's the defense, what's their personnel, and understanding what's happening, I think is, is an Important transition to, to a higher level of play.

So you have a stoppage, whether that's a dead ball, a timeout, a free throw, a foul.

At any point, you have a moment where you can now let the last play go, quickly review what's been going on, set an intention for the next play and then reset.

And if you can use that, that's, it's a cyclical approach of you play, you release the play.

Now we review, we reset and then execute again.

And doing that more purposefully, I think is something that a lot of basketball players don't really tend to do.

So that's one that I, I think has value on the golf course too.

But I think golf lends itself more easily to, to using that kind of approach as opposed to basketball.

And so I want my basketball players to recognize, here's, here's what's going on, here's why they're scoring on us, or here's why we're scoring on them, or here's how the game is being called, or let's recognize what's happening.

So in both cases, you're trying to build a lot of awareness, both internal and external awareness, and using your brain to be responsive rather than reactive.

And so I'm curious now.

I just, this kind of came to my mind and it wasn't necessarily a part of my questioning.

But you've been teaching now for quite a while.

Being around, you know, both middle school and high school and you know, the digital age has certainly had a huge impact on attentional direction, as you called it.

Attentional direction.

And so how have you seen that impact?

And, yeah, I guess that's all, that's all I want to know.

How has that impacted, from your perspective, knowing what you know about mental performance and everything?

Well, I spend a whole lot more time talking about attention and focus and concentration than I used to.

I, I think we have to, to train that.

But then, but along with that, I spend a lot of time talking about awareness.

And, and the, the reason I, I think is, is because when, you know, when I was a kid, there was a lot of time when I was just alone with my thoughts.

I'm riding a bike down the road, nothing in my ears.

I'm hiking in the woods or I'm going fishing with my family or riding in the car, cross country trip, whatever.

I wasn't plugged in continually.

And so there's a lot of time to be alone with your thoughts and to think about things and, and just be still, just be quiet and, and that doesn't happen anymore.

Because kids, if, if we allow them are constantly going to plug in.

They're constantly going to have something in their ear.

There's something in front of their.

There's not much time where they're alone with their thoughts, except in sport.

So now they've never considered how am I going to deal with this thought when I have it?

Because they have no experience of being present with their thoughts until it pops up.

If I miss this, we lose the game or I just screwed up or we have a chance to win if we just do X, Y and Z.

And so now how are you going to manage all these thoughts if you've never really sat with them elsewhere or you have this flood of thoughts and you're not comfortable with looking at thoughts?

It's a whole lot easier to just plug in or tune out.

So I think that's a big difference of, you know, when, I mean, this starts to make me sound.

When I started teaching, kids did not have phones.

And so when we'd, we travel, the highlight of the season was the, the van rides.

That was for, for many of my, my early girls golf teams, that was the best part of the season was the time they spent in the van.

What happens in the van stays in the band.

They had a great time and it was loud and raucous and we had some long road trips and.

And then that shifted over time as, as kids got better and better phones and.

And so all of a sudden the van rides got really quiet because everyone's in their own little world and not interacting.

So I, I thought that's a big one of just trying to train that awareness and then let's notice where your attention is and what you're doing because you know, the, the phone is in particular is addictive and that, that's in the hands of somebody whose prefrontal cortex is not fully developed.

And we know as adults that it can be a distraction.

And now you're given a tool to somebody that's not fully developed and hasn't developed, has the maturity or the, the experience to handle all this.

And so I, I think that's a really big one.

Is, is just let's build some self awareness.

What are you thinking?

What are you feeling?

What, what experience and emotion are we having right now?

Where's that coming from?

How does that impact your decisions?

You know that that's certainly a big conversation.

And then how do we redirect attention when, when it's constantly shifting?

Like are we, are we training the ability to be focused or Are we training for distraction?

Of constantly shifting our attention back and forth, back and forth?

Right.

Right now, culturally, we're training people to be distracted.

And we're not good as, as humans.

We're not adults, we know are not good at this.

Of constantly shifting attention back and forth.

So, so I, I think those are two big areas that, that I just feel like we have to teach more now than we did in the past.

Yeah, I agree.

I agree.

That's why I brought it up as well, because it's huge.

And like, like I said earlier in.

And you said earlier, it has implications across so many different things.

And so it's like, very valuable to see, you know, that how it has current world implication because of where we're at in society right now with the digital age being here.

And it's a lot.

So I'm curious now about the performance blueprint, because I feel like the performance blueprint is going to cure this.

Not really, but, you know, it's going to help people.

Yeah, so.

So I was thinking about performance and the, the ironic thing is, you know, I took a lot of education classes to become a teacher, and I had student teaching.

Well, in student teaching, they teach you how to teach.

I don't know that I ever took a class on student learning.

And so I came to this conclusion that the schools don't really teach kids how to learn.

They teach them what to learn.

And along the way, we just kind of figure out some of us better than others how to learn.

But what a lot of people use is not the most effective way to learn.

So in the process of getting into sports psychology and studying motor learning, oh, there's this whole body of literature about learning out there, not just of motor skills, but also of academic skills.

Go figure.

Why isn't this ever taught to us and doesn't come up in professional development days or things like that.

So I started thinking about that connection.

And so I was like, okay, how does this fit with learning?

And I'm weaving in the sports psych at the same time.

And then I was just noticing behaviors from kids had changed, that things that you assumed that students would do were no longer happening.

I would literally have to say these things out loud.

So I distinctly remember the year this happened is I'm talking about a topic and nobody's taking notes, nobody's writing anything down.

And that's why I said, okay, you need to write this down on paper.

And so the kid, like reaches in their backpack, pulls out an old work sheet, turns it on its side and starts Writing in the margin.

Oh man, not, not a notebook, not even notebook paper, but just the first piece of paper and then shoves it back in the backpack to compost, never to be seen again.

And I was like, there's a lot of things that I'm starting to say that we need to teach that, you know, I just kind of did or we did as kids.

So, so I broke that, put that into the, really three buckets.

So I call it success behaviors.

These are just the things that good students, good employees do.

You show up, you follow directions, you know how to win the game, you know how to score.

Just understanding how the world works and basic things like that you have to do.

So those are success behaviors.

And then you've got the learning strategies.

So how do we effectively learn material and really emphasis on learning, not just trying to rote memorize it.

And so there's a bucket of those strategies that I like to teach.

And then the third category, and this is probably more branding than it's performance assets is the name I use for it.

But it's, it's essentially sports psychology principles.

And, and I had to come up with that name because in the literature you sometimes see it called the social emotional learning.

So SEL or sometimes you see.

Emotional intelligence.

Emotional intelligence eq.

The worst name that I saw it was non cognitive factors.

But that, that's the most commonly used term in literature.

I'm like, that is an awful term.

First off, it is cognitive and what kind of factors?

So, so I got to thinking about it like, okay, I think people need all three of these things and, and then I think of it as a triangle.

And you know my basketball background, I'm thinking triangle offense.

You know the, the text winner offense that he brought to the Chicago Bulls, which is why the Bulls became so successful with Michael Jordan.

I mean Jordan not win a championship in Tex Winter until text winner shows up, Phil Jackson shows up and they start running the triangle offense.

So you have this interaction of the performance asset, the learning strategy and success behavior all together.

So let's use math as an example.

If my mindset is I'm not good at math, okay, so you have some negative self talk there.

You have a lack of confidence there.

Because I don't believe I'm good at math.

I'm not going to use the learning strategy or the method that the teacher teaches me because why would I try that?

I'm not good at math.

So I ignore the learning strategies that are a possibility and then consequently I don't do the things that would help me be successful.

Those basic behaviors of ask questions, listen, follow directions because what's the point?

It's not going to change my outlook.

And so we get a negative interaction of those three versus I come in and say math is difficult, but I can do difficult things.

So now we have a growth mindset with some positive self talk.

So there's your performance assets.

So I'm going to listen to this strategy about how to study and use the, the approach to problem solving that's being taught to me.

So that's my learning strategy.

And I'm going to ask more questions, be more involved and come after school and ask for extra help so that those are my success behaviors.

And now I perform better, which builds my confidence.

And now I get that positive feedback too.

So, so I think of it as a triangular approach of interaction between those three categories and I call it a blueprint.

Because nobody teaches these things.

Like nobody teaches you how to be a good student.

Nobody teaches you how to learn effectively in most cases.

And when I ask kids like how did you learn to learn?

And they're like, I don't know, like they just kind of figure things out as humans.

I mean we do learn on our own, but we can learn more effectively more quickly if we know strategies that actually have some research background and support for them.

And, and then like I said, the, some of the behaviors that we used to have just culturally we don't have anymore.

So we've got to teach those behaviors too.

That's.

That actually reminded me of a lot of Tony Robbins example he gives.

So it was, it was really good that you're a triangle.

The.

Let's say that one more time.

It's the success behaviors, learning strategies and performance assets all working hand in hand and all affecting each other as well.

And so Tony Robbins talks about.

I wish I could remember all four of them right now, but it's a four quadrant.

I don't know if you know this or not, but it's a four quadrant square and it is potential action results and behaviors.

Oh it is.

I remember all four.

Nice.

And so it turns out that if, if you believe you have a small potential, then you take small actions and then you get small results and then your behaviors reinforce doing more small things.

And so he's like massive action, you know, equals, you know.

So that, that's kind of how he talks about it.

But they all affect each other because from the belief level and that's actually entirely how I got into this as well.

Cause I used to be a personal Trainer.

And then I was noticing like people, people know these things.

And I could even give them the exact blueprint.

Literally the blueprint, like down to the macro, you know, down to the perfect for their body type and everything.

And, and then they're still struggling, like, ah, I don't know what's wrong with me.

And it's like, you know, and, and, or, or I'm feeling like I'm not doing a good enough job.

When in reality there's just so much of this mental stuff going on.

Some of these beliefs underneath the surface.

Right.

Preventing them from.

Because I'm like, why can't you just Google it?

First of all, Google like how to get healthier, how to eat.

Right?

How to.

The same thing.

Same thing I did.

But I employed those learning strategies from a certain place of mind, you know, because I cared and because I was dealing with my own mental things.

And so yeah, I really love the performance blueprint.

That was perfect.

So I'm curious now.

We'll kind of wrap this up here.

But first of all, I always ask, is there anything else you feel like we didn't really kind of touch on that's like, you know, I usually talk about this and I want to make sure I get a chance to say this.

I, I think we pretty much covered it.

I think we did really good.

I think we did really good.

Yeah.

So where, where can our, where can our guests find you if they're interested to know more about you?

If they're interested in the Las Vegas Mental Performance Summit, they want to come.

They want to come because they're a coach or they're a personal trainer.

Mental Performance for Psych.

Just someone interested in that stuff.

Where can they find you?

Sure.

All my social media and my website, all the same thing.

Coach mark Cheney.

So www.coachmarkcini.com or at Coachmark Cheney.

Those would all get.

Get you to that.

Email me mark coachmark cheney.com that will get you information.

You can go directly through Eventbrite if you wanted to register for the summit.

Summit's coming up the end of February, so February 27th and 28th and early registration ends in a week.

So get yourself.

Do one week, man.

Get in there.

Yeah, get in there.

So you also have a podcast.

Can you plug your podcast real quick in your newsletter?

I'll.

I'll plug the podcast.

It.

Let's call it dormant at best.

That was kind of a co project.

Haven't spent a lot of time on it recently just because I found other projects providing more ROI right now.

But But I call it the Ripple Tank.

That's, that's a physics reference.

If you listen to the first episode, you'll find out why.

But it is the ripple Tank.

And, and the content that I created on that is evergreen.

I still send it out to all my two students now, so certainly gonna have some success behaviors, learning strategies, and performance assets in there.

And then my newsletter is the 90%.

And that one, go to my website, it's free.

Just hit the sign up button on the pop up and you get that a couple times a month.

And why is it called the 90%?

I'd love to hear that real quick.

Because I asked my coaching staff what I should call my newsletter and, and one of my coaches suggested the 90% happened to be a baseball coach.

You know, Yogi Berra once upon a time said, baseball is 90% mental and the other half is physical.

So, so you've got that long, you've got that long history of, of baseball using that term.

And, and, and then I just kept finding more and more people using that 90% terms.

I'll ask groups all the time, what percentage of your game is mental?

And overwhelmingly they say 90%.

And then I'll ask, how much time do you spend working on your mental game?

And usually the answer is like 10%.

So I said, well, maybe we should work on that 90%.

So I start every edition of the newsletter with a new 90 quote.

And it's amazing how many people use that number.

So some might call it cliche, but that's why I go with the 90.

I love it.

I love it.

That's perfect.

Well, thank you, Mark, for being here.

Thank you, viewers for watching.

Hope you got some gems from this.

And until next time, thanks a lot, Tod.