“Everything begins with you; it begins and ends with you.”

This week on Be Customer Led with Bill Staikos, we’re joined by Nils Vinje, Founder and CEO of 30 Day Leadership. In thirty months, Nils Vinje advanced from an individual contributor to a vice president. Every team he coached excelled in performance. Also, the method by which Nils accomplished this served as the basis for his leadership coaching. He is a leadership coach, 3X Top 25 Customer Success Influencer, consultant, and public speaker. Moreover, Nils is the author of the book 30 Day Leadership, which equips leaders with the tools to handle any situation confidently. 

[01:54] Nils’s Journey – Nils describes his exciting journey to his current position and how he happened to write his book. 

[10:13] Way of Working – Nils discusses the styles he employs in his work with clients. 

[12:15] Yourself First – Nils explains why it is essential to understand how to lead ourselves first and how to initiate self-reflection. 

[19:05] Timeless - Nils points out why the leadership principles he teaches are universally applicable and how the COVID 19 pandemic has affected their applicability.

[22:45] Social Contract - Nils defines the social contract and explains why he believes social contract violations are a significant cause of the current wave of great resignation. Nils also discusses how frequently he would suggest people update the social contract.

[27:49] Leading with Communication – Nils summarizes his four pillars of leadership beliefs and why simply carrying out your tasks as a leader is insufficient. 

[31:41] Yes or No – Nils highlights the reasons and mechanisms for why it is crucial to receive a yes or no for any activity.

[34:32] Role Models and Inspiration – Nils mentions the role models he admires. Furthermore, he explains how his sources of inspiration.

Resources:

Connect with Nils:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/nilsvinje/

Mentioned in the episode:

30 Day Leadership Playbook: Your Guide To Becoming The Leader You Have Always Wanted To Be: goodreads.com/book/show/55127989-30-day-leadership-playbook?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=TpkSmNB1Ab&rank=2

B2B Academy - Exclusive Courses for Business Leaders: b2b-academy.com

30 day leadership: 30dayleadership.com

Be Customer Led - Nils Vinje on Leadership

[00:00:32] Bill Staikos: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to be customer led. I'm your host bill. Staco another great show for you all this week. Neils Viya accelerated from individual contributor to vice president in 30 months. That's a, that's gotta be a record somewhere in some book. I, to be honest with you, every team Neils has run has become a high performing.

[00:01:14] And it literally is day by day, what to do you're guide to becoming the leader that you have always wanted to. It's at 30 day leadership.com/book Neils. So excited to have you on

[00:01:39] And just wanna clarify, forward slash book, get a free copy. I'll send it to you right away. Yeah.

[00:01:55] Right. You've spent most of your career in customer success. Yes. And now coach CS teams, right? Mm-hmm by and large. Tell us a little bit about your journey to get to where you are today. Because one, I think it's a pretty incredible journey that you said, you learned all this great stuff, then you package it and you said, you know what?

[00:02:18] Nils Vinje: Yeah, absolutely. Well, the first 10 years of my professional career bill, I had absolutely no idea where I fit in the professional world. And I literally tried everything from being a software engineer of which I was absolutely terrible.

[00:02:51] Dabbled in marketing in, not really much product, but some product marketing, consulting solutions, engineering, sales, engineering. I literally did everything except for accounting and finance. Cause I knew I didn't belong there, but I had no clue where my skillset was gonna fit and where I was gonna be able to add the most value.

[00:03:35] That I previously worked for and the people that I worked for just had no notion that this stuff even existed. And I was fascinated by leadership, leadership development, bringing teams together, bringing organizations together. It was incredibly exciting time. And I, when I graduated from grad school, I said, made the commitment to myself.

[00:04:14] Yeah. Salesforce had only. Come out with it a few years prior, SAS had only been around for a few years prior as well, and the world was changing fast and I got to grow up from a CSM to manager director to VP in 30 months in one of the most intense environments with an incredible network of people who were the very earliest pioneers in customer success.

[00:04:52] That the systems I had put in place and the foundation that I built. Was designed to run without me. And I was kind of expensive and wasn't really needed, frankly. I was bored too. Wow. Yeah. So I decided at that point that I would leave and he said, well, what are you gonna do? And I, at the time, I hadn't honestly given it a lot of thought.

[00:05:27] And so I decided that, it was time for me to be, share my expertise and share the things that I had learned. In a meaningful way, because I just knew at the time that there were other people who weren't as far advanced as we were on the customer success side. And I knew there would be a lot of demand for this in the future, just given the nature of the industry, the nature of SAS, all that good stuff.

[00:06:00] Bill Staikos: that? How do I know? How did you know that?

[00:06:10] so that's true. We have a good laugh about that. Cuz a few other people were close and there's only a small handful of CS consultants who have legitimately been in seat, not in a tangential role. And then, kind of become a consultant in the space. I mean, like been in a CS leadership role inside of a SAS fast growing business where CS was born.

[00:06:50] One, we may not be having this conversation yeah. Of what I'm about to tell you in there. But two, I would've just continued on consulting as I had. And one, tidbit that is, that plays into this a lot is that 10 years ago, almost at the same time that I got into my first CS role, I went through a program to become a certified leadership coach.

[00:07:29] Was absolutely unworldly and unlike anything I had ever experienced before and I was hooked and it always said, wow, this is so powerful. I'm gonna bring now coaching skills into the work I do with my teams into the work that I do with the teams that report to me in the future with the I'm gonna, I use coaching skills with my clients.

[00:08:14] So I did it like that when I became a consult. Coaching always became a part of my projects, but it was never the front runner. It was never the thing I focused on most. And then the pandemic hit and my consulting business disappeared in 48 hours. Just completely gone. I'm talking literally zero . That's what it went to.

[00:08:53] Yeah. And, or go back to, I could have very easily just gone and gotten a VP of CS job. Yeah. I entertained it. I'll admit for about two weeks. And then I said, no way, that's not me. This is, I am, I can add significantly more value going down this path. So. I took a step back and I said, well, let's look at all the skill sets that I have.

[00:09:29] And now I have an opportunity to share this with the world and not just people who can pay me a lot of money to coach one on one. and that was why I wrote the book 30 day leadership playbook. Your guide to becoming the leader. You've always wanted to be it's called 30 days just because I organized the chapters as days one through 30.

[00:09:51] Bill Staikos: So, so I love the book and I love how you later it out. I just thought the concept, I mean the title and then sort of the concept every day, you're learning something new.

[00:10:23] Nils Vinje: Yes on the consulting side, I still consult in the customer success space. Yeah. That is still very high touch one on one, where I go in and work with a customer success organization, mm-hmm inside of a company and help them either solve challenges they're facing now, or build it from scratch or scale it or whatever the challenge is.

[00:11:01] So I run a program called the B to B leaders academy. Which involves content that I take. I start with the premise of what I talk about at a high level in the book. And then we go much deeper on each of these areas. And this is a way for me to provide my expertise and access to leadership training and leadership coaching.

[00:11:36] Bill Staikos: definitely put that in our show notes.

[00:12:00] And then later in that section, I thought was really interesting. You talking about bulletproofing or leadership style has that. Change, maybe at all, since you wrote the book two years ago, particularly given like the pandemic are the things pre pandemic, maybe the same as they are now because the world of work has changed so much.

[00:12:20] Nils Vinje: Yeah. So pillar one, leading yourself, everything begins with you and it, it really begins and ends with you. Yeah. And that's why it had to come. And everything that I talk about in the book in the B2B leaders academy, in my B2B leadership podcast, everything comes down to having psychology and having tactics.

[00:13:08] From a leadership perspective. If you are not able to lead yourself, it will be incredibly difficult to lead other people. Right. And I don't just mean this lead by example, kind of genericness I'm talking about, when I talk about Bulletproof, your leadership psychology, I'm talking about being confident about who you are.

[00:13:47] Sure. It's hard. But the source of imposter syndrome is the comparison to someone outside of yourself. And I'm saying, don't worry. At first about that night, the comparison isn't, what's important, what's important is being confident in who you are. And I have a series of tools and exercises and things that take people through to help them claim their strengths, to help them build their confidence, to help them feel as if they can take on any challenge, because they have a set of tools that are going to empower.

[00:14:23] Bill Staikos: you anything give me so look, and, when I went into my new role at the company I'm at today, I had imposter syndrome. I was managing a team of leaders who had, who had been in the customer employee experience space for decades.

[00:14:53] Nils Vinje: I approach that?

[00:15:11] Mindset is on me. Now that one of the tactics that I would use in this case is as wonderful assessments. My favorite one in the whole world. It's from the research company, Gallup it's called the strengths finder assessment. You can, I have nothing to do with this assessment. I just happen to love it and use the results.

[00:15:42] Bill Staikos: assessment? I have. I bought strength finders 2.0, I think it was the book.

[00:15:50] Nils Vinje: it's been awhile. I don't think it was that I don't. I think of another, I'm thinking of another, I think we think of a different, a different one. Right. And, and that is that's the rub.

[00:16:18] I am an introvert. However, I am very extroverted in some things that I do. Yeah. I just have different sides to me that I pull out at different times. Now, what I love about strengths and the reason why I think it's so powerful is that it is simply a language to describe what you're naturally talented to.

[00:16:55] If you know what your top five strings are. It completely changes the game with understanding what you are naturally talented to do, where you're going to Excel and where you're going to struggle. And if you know those boundaries, then you can focus on the things where you have strengths to Excel and do even more of those, but acknowledge where you don't have strengths.

[00:17:36] And I'll share with you. My number one strength in the strengths finder assessment is something called maximizer. What maximizer means to me. Is that I see strengths in other people oftentimes before they see it in themselves, mm-hmm and bringing awareness of strengths to others gives me tremendous satisfaction.

[00:18:13] I can see strengths in people before they see it in themselves. And when I bring that awareness to them, everything changes.

[00:18:28] Nils Vinje: do this again.

[00:18:32] Bill Staikos: I actually recently went through, there's another one out there called 16 personalities. They do a little bit of a Meers Briggs output, but the one I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but, I'm a protagonist. So basically like I really.

[00:18:56] Nils Vinje: all. Yeah. So the interesting thing is the principles that I teach in that I focus on from a leadership perspective.

[00:19:23] And people is a constant, no matter what, department you're in, no matter what industry you're in, just doesn't matter what product you're supporting. Right. So what changed though, in the last two years with the pandemic and remote environments and just work changing largely is the application of some of these.

[00:20:01] And then, maybe casually mention that decision to some other people, but inevit. Something gets dropped because somebody wasn't in that casual place where it worked out and somebody doesn't know something. So when I say it's easy, it's easy because you don't have to put a lot of effort. You just casually turn around to somebody, have a quick conversation, move on.

[00:20:35] So, it actually takes much more effort to do the exact same thing in a remote environment than it does in an in-person environment. And that's the, what change. So that's the application of these principles change the fact of how you connect with people, the coaching work that you do, the questions you ask your.

[00:21:09] Bill Staikos: I actually, now that you said that I do wonder if like remote work increases inclusivity.

[00:21:31] Nils Vinje: is so important, or if everything is every, if a decision that it needs to be communicated to the team, which previously would've been just said in an open area, right.

[00:21:59] Bill Staikos: So Neils in the second pillar of the book, leading others right now.

[00:22:24] And then, do you think that the violation of social contracts is a big reason why we're in the middle of the great resignation right now, too?

[00:22:44] There is agreements between you and your boss, you and your company, you and another department. And when I say unspoken, what I mean is that we all have expectations of other people that we don't bring to the surface and we never voice. However, we hold them as if we did. And what happens when another party does not live up to those expectations is that we feel this violation of our social contract and this causes tension to happen.

[00:23:29] And you didn't even consider. That would be a violation of my social contract. And at that point I would probably lose some of the connection that I have to you because I'd be like, well, bill doesn't care about me. It doesn't live up to my expectation and Bill's gonna turn around and say, I had no idea that's what you wanted me to do.

[00:24:05] And what are the expectations that I have of you as a team that forms the social contract, which is actually ends up being a written formal document that everybody signs and agrees to. And the reason why that's so powerful is that then everybody has the responsibility to hold each other accountable.

[00:24:31] Bill Staikos: And do you think that these should be updated like annually every couple years? Like, or. Because they must, right? Like teams change, they evolve.

[00:24:47] Nils Vinje: Yeah, I think annually is totally fine to revisit this. Your team is gonna change as well.

[00:25:11] These are the expectations from the leader. These are our expectations. If there's something wildly off, we can add, we can have a discussion about it. Usually it's we covered the basis, but in the social contract, we're talking about things that are going to be applicable regardless of time. So it's not just about that this project or this initiative is centered around that.

[00:25:51] And I think it is absolutely a hundred percent fair to revisit and adjust it on an annual basis. And most people have an annual either kickoff or an offsite or something virtual that they do today. And that's a great time to take a full step back. Hey gang, let's review our social contact. But it is something that should be embedded within the culture.

[00:26:25] It is a. Really, really powerful exercise and why I've run this for, I've run these sessions, you can run them yourselves. Of course. Yeah. But I've run these sessions for leaders, upwards of, having a very, very senior leadership team, around the table and of course of an hour and a half, like we had a very, very powerful discussion and it completely transformed.

[00:26:54] Bill Staikos: forward. Very cool. I love that. Let's talk about leading with communication. And in there you had a section that it's a philosophy that I just live and die by professionally.

[00:27:19] It kind of sets those as well. Tell our listeners a little bit about the w 3m communication framework and, and how they might be able to put it into practice.

[00:27:40] You cannot just show up and do your job and expect that other people will know what you do. Yeah. It's just not gonna happen. So leading with communication is all about how you communicate your value, your expertise, the progress that you and your team are making the value that you're delivering to an audience that has no idea what you do, right.

[00:28:06] Bill Staikos: Well, we're a smaller company, but I've worked for like big banks, like chase. Yeah. There's 250, 300,000 employees. So like, and big, the bigger the company, the more important frankly, this, this becomes, right.

[00:28:25] Nils Vinje: Mm-hmm . Yep. So, yep, absolutely. A hundred percent. And your ability to craft how you are perceived. Is directly related to the, your ability to effectively communicate what it is that you do.

[00:28:54] Yeah. Yeah. You can summarize my entire. About everything I know about leadership by telling you there's four pillars, pillar, one, leading yourself, pillar two, leading others, pillars three, leading with communication, pillar four, leading with metrics. And then I could guide you on a path through any one of those, depending on your specific and unique situation.

[00:29:31] And just a little bit of a gut check, cuz we can all send emails and send slack messages and send things that sometimes don't get our point across in a as efficient way. So the w stands for why, why are you sending this message? And then there are three Ms. The first one is, and the message. What is the actual message itself?

[00:30:14] Motivation. And that is all about what do you want the individual to do on the other side, as a result of this message. So if you can break down something that you are going to send out by looking at it through this simple framework here, you can barely clearly see if you're going to achieve your outcome.

[00:30:40] Bill Staikos: So simple, and so easy to put into place I've been using it actually, since I've read the book. So thank you for that. All right. I, the last part of the book, the last pillar is leading with metrics.

[00:31:05] At the end of the. Why is this important and how can our listeners put this into practice? So what is you need to get to yes

[00:31:13] Nils Vinje: no mean? Yeah. So any the, and the, the actual co-op from friend was anything can get to a yes or no. And at first I completely did not believe it. I was like, no there's stuff. I do, in my world, in my life and all this stuff, I was like, no way.

[00:31:48] So you might say, well, I'm gonna need better about checking my email less times per day. It's like, okay. That's very general. How are you gonna know if you actually did check it less times or checked it more times? Yeah. While you needed more definitive measurement. So what he had me do was set up a yes or no situation.

[00:32:41] That was an action I could take. And then I could measure. And the best part was I could hold myself accountable to it because if I looked on a little, even wrote it down at the end of the day. Yes, I did check it only four times a day or no, I didn't like, it was a gut check when I had, when I said no.

[00:33:11] Bill Staikos: Very cool. Very cool. I love the simplicity of that.

[00:33:17] right.

[00:33:33] Yes, you did it or no, you didn't. That's it. I don't, I don't really care about the rest of the story. It's just yes or no. And then they start to hold themselves accountable to that and it completely changes the, the way they look at all the activities that they.

[00:33:48] I know we're late getting later on a Friday, where, or do you have any specific leaders Nils that you look up to from a business perspective, whether that's in coaching customer success or, or just business

[00:34:08] The wonderful part about the world that we live in today is that there is access to world class experts, everything in virtually any discipline, anywhere in the world. At the swipe of a credit card. And I have swiped my credit card many, many, many times. So my current coach, this guy named James Tramco, he's based out of Australia, he's been in the online business and marketing space since like 2000, since 2004, six or something crazy long, long time.

[00:34:53] In his coaching program. So I, I look for inspiration on how to deliver exceptional value to my clients, by finding the experiences where I received exponential value in a group based environment. And that gives me insights and glimpses. And then I take the pieces that work for me and I massage it and I turn it into something of my own.

[00:35:30] And that's where James came in and it's just been a wonderful relationship, cuz he has such great insight and advice to give me and I get access to his expertise and I get to take the fast track. He's one of the people that I look up to most and others outside of. My immediate, I spend a lot of time in customer success.

[00:36:10] And then again, I take a little piece outta each one of these, and I integrate it into a weekly email that I send or into the next conversation that I have on the podcast or something like that. So that's really, my main sources is I usually go try to go outside of my immediate stuff that I spend the most amount of time in, on a daily

[00:36:27] Very cool. I've got one last question. Where do you go for inspiration? I'm sure. There's places you go to fill your tires.

[00:36:52] I enjoy very much just like this conversation. Yeah. But when I need to recharge, it's a personal thing and I love. Being, on my own for a period of time, I love to meditate. Right. Which I do every single day. I also love to be with my family. I got three young kids, my wife, we're going to Vegas this weekend, getting respite a little time away.

[00:37:34] Like that's where I could have a day full of coaching meetings and I would be, and just as energized at the end of the day as the beginning of the day versus the consulting side, I'm probably gonna be a little more exhausted at the end of the day. But if I am coaching and helping people discover. answers their problems, helping 'em work through situations that is, music to my ears.

[00:37:53] Bill Staikos: Awesome mills. This has been a great conversation. I'm so happy that we've had an opportunity to meet and get to know each other a little bit better. And. I hope, I hope the conversation doesn't stop here and, looking forward to, hope look, look for listeners down, certainly after this, download the book, I think the context Neils that you've provided on this show is gonna really help the book come alive.

[00:38:25] Nils Vinje: you can find out everything@thirtythreedayleadership.com.

[00:38:46] Yeah. That's okay. Right. It's all about learning and continuous improvement. If that's you drop me a line, tell me about your situation. I would love to connect.

[00:39:04] Talk to you soon, everyone. Thanks for