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The Number 119
Episode 80 • 30th January 2024 • The Secular Foxhole • Blair Schofield and Martin Lindeskog
00:00:00 01:01:18

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Ayn Rand would have been 119 years old on Feb 2, 2024. Today we have Philosopher Andrew Bernstein with us to discuss her novels and philosophy. We talk about the significance of The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, along with his own impact on her ideas with the works he has authored. We look into the future of an 'Objectivist' society, too. All around, a lively talk.

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Show notes with links to articles, blog posts, products and services:

Episode 80 (61 minutes) was recorded at 1800 Central European Time, on January 27, 2024, with Ringr app. Martin did the editing and post-production with the podcast maker, Alitu. The transcript is generated by Alitu.

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Transcripts

Blair:

Everyone, this is Blair Schofield.

Blair:

I'm with Martin Lindiscog.

Blair:

And today our guest is Andrew Bernstein, great philosopher teacher.

Blair:

Today we're here to discuss the 119th birthday of Einrand, and hopefully we'll have this

Blair:

published on her birthday, which is February 2.

Blair:

But if we may even get it done sooner, that'd be fine.

Blair:

Nonetheless, today Andy is here to help us discuss the legacy and achievements of whom I

Blair:

consider the second greatest human being that's ever lived.

Blair:

Ayn Rand.

Blair:

Andy, how are you?

Andrew:

I've been sick, guys.

Andrew:

I've been having a bad cold, chest cold and

Andrew:

everything, but I'm on the mend.

Andrew:

I'm starting to feel better.

Andrew:

Thank you for having me on, and this is certainly a great topic, so I appreciate you

Andrew:

having me on to discuss.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Blair:

And I want to touch on all the works that you've done to advance her ideas.

Blair:

But let's give a brief description of who Ayn Rand was and what her achievements are as far

Blair:

as literature.

Andrew:

Well, Ayn Rand, Kosa is anon de plume.

Andrew:

That's a pen name.

Andrew:

Her real name was Alyssa Rosenbaum, born in Russia in 1905, educated under the Soviets,

Andrew:

was able to defect from the Soviet Union in 1926.

Andrew:

Knew from the time she was a very young girl that she was going to be a writer.

Andrew:

She was going to be a novelist, and, in my judgment, wrote the two greatest novels in

Andrew:

world literature, Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.

Andrew:

I love literature, even though my phds in philosophy literature has always been my first

Andrew:

love.

Andrew:

And so I've read the great novelists, Victor

Andrew:

Hugo, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy.

Andrew:

They're great writers, but I'll stand by that

Andrew:

assessment till the day I die.

Andrew:

I think the fountainhead and outless shrugged

Andrew:

literarily are the two greatest novels ever written.

Andrew:

They're just extraordinarily rich works of fiction.

Andrew:

And Ayn Rand said the purpose of her writing was to create and project the ideal man.

Andrew:

And in order to be able to project the ideal man, she needed to know a great deal about

Andrew:

human nature.

Andrew:

And in order to understand human nature, she

Andrew:

needed to get into the depths of philosophy and metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, and so

Andrew:

on.

Andrew:

And she created an entire philosophic system,

Andrew:

objectivism, which is extraordinary philosophic achievement, I think it's true, in

Andrew:

all of its essentials.

Andrew:

But she became, in my judgment, think about

Andrew:

this, guys, the greatest philosopher since Aristotle, as a secondary means of developing

Andrew:

her primary purpose of projecting the ideal man in mean.

Andrew:

That absolutely is mind boggling, especially given how complex and difficult the field of

Andrew:

philosophy is, and I want to emphasize this, guys, because I think a lot of Iron Man's fans

Andrew:

and students of her philosophy, objectivists think of know as the great philosopher.

Andrew:

And they recognize that her novels know pretty good, but they're like secondary to a lot of

Andrew:

objectivists.

Andrew:

I want to point out.

Andrew:

No, first foremost and always a novelist.

Andrew:

She's a brilliant, extraordinary literary

Andrew:

artist.

Andrew:

And the philosophy is enormously important and

Andrew:

brilliant and life changing and world changing.

Andrew:

But the fountainheaded Atlas Shrugged come first.

Andrew:

Iron Man's first foremost is always the greatest novelist in world literature.

Andrew:

That's the way I think.

Blair:

Okay.

Andrew:

Yes.

Martin:

Andy, could that be the case then, when they did this book of a month club years

Martin:

ago, that they said which book had made the most impact or influence on your life?

Martin:

And Atlas Shrug came second right after the Holy Bible.

Andrew:

Right. Early 90s.

Andrew:

So it was roughly.

Andrew:

It was 91.

Andrew:

Right.

Andrew:

So that's.

Andrew:

What's that?

Andrew:

34 years after the publication of Atlas Shrug, second most influential book, second only to

Andrew:

the Bible is funny because I was reading a few years ago, some commentator, some cultural

Andrew:

commentator.

Andrew:

I think politically was probably a leftist.

Andrew:

I got that impression.

Andrew:

Antagonistic timelines, politics, and probably

Andrew:

tough philosophy.

Andrew:

And the way leftists view the world, they tend

Andrew:

to be, amongst other things, very cynical and pessimistic about the human potential, about

Andrew:

what we're capable of achieving.

Andrew:

And this writer said, as late as 1991, Ayn

Andrew:

Rand's book was still the second most popular book after the Bible, as if Rand was a fad and

Andrew:

she should have peaked in the 1960s.

Andrew:

And it's trickling, maybe did peak in the

Andrew:

1960s and the interest is trickling by 1991, but still the second most influential book

Andrew:

other than the Bible.

Andrew:

No, it's as early as 1991.

Andrew:

As early as 1991.

Andrew:

Near 34 years after publication.

Andrew:

Alice Shrug is the second most influential book that's going to grow.

Andrew:

That's not going to dwindle, that's going to grow as long as human beings could still.

Blair:

Forget.

Blair:

We can't forget the revival of Atlas Shrugg

Blair:

through the Obama years either.

Andrew:

Oh, yeah, that's right.

Martin:

Because you could read what's happening.

Martin:

It's a fiction of a future society, but then you see it and reflect to it.

Martin:

But do you have any comments as a philosopher and author and so on and speaker, like, how

Martin:

long does it take for an influential work? And we will have you for another thing.

Martin:

When you compare different ones, characters and individuals through the history,

Martin:

philosophers that we have upcoming also planned.

Martin:

Yes, but other philosophers.

Martin:

And that's also like a complaint that it was

Martin:

not a real philosophy or not a system of thought and whatever.

Martin:

If you compare with these other philosophers and think about it, how many have really

Martin:

integrated and been a non fiction author? Also, at the same time, I can't come up with

Martin:

any, but it takes time.

Martin:

And we, in a way, see the positive things,

Martin:

what Rand's works and ideas and fiction, and as you said, the fiction that are still so

Martin:

popular.

Martin:

But also it takes, like, how many generations

Martin:

will it take to have an impact, positive and negative?

Martin:

Do you have any fortune comments on that?

Andrew:

All I know, Martin and Blair, is it takes a lot longer than I would like it to.

Andrew:

Okay, so in 1978, near the end of Ryan Rand's lifetime, I saw her speak for the first time

Andrew:

at Ford Hall Forum in Boston.

Andrew:

I was a kid in grad school, and I remember

Andrew:

meeting people from all over the world, came to hear Ryan Ran speak.

Andrew:

And it was encouraging because you could see the influence that she had and so many

Andrew:

positive influence in so many people's lives.

Andrew:

And I'll never forget, I met a woman from

Andrew:

Wisconsin.

Andrew:

She was married and very attractive.

Andrew:

But you're married woman, about the same age, in her 20s.

Andrew:

Her name was Connie.

Andrew:

Connie, if you're out there, I've never met

Andrew:

you since 1978, all the conferences I've spoken at and all the times I've spoken at the

Andrew:

University of Wisconsin.

Andrew:

But anyway, she said something to me, was

Andrew:

standing online, and she had a lot of enthusiasm.

Andrew:

I really liked her as a person.

Andrew:

And she said to me about Iron Rand's books and

Andrew:

philosophy, she said, and I'll never forget this, I'll quote, she said, people should be

Andrew:

out in the street discussing nothing but this.

Andrew:

Unquote, this meaning Ayn Rand's novels and

Andrew:

philosophy.

Andrew:

People should be out on the street discussing

Andrew:

nothing but this.

Andrew:

I agree, Connie.

Andrew:

It's that important.

Andrew:

Ein Rand's novels and philosophy are that

Andrew:

important that we should be discussing nothing but this and what it means in our lives, what

Andrew:

it can mean in our personal lives, and what it can mean in the life of human society.

Andrew:

And that's absolutely right.

Andrew:

That's the way it should be.

Andrew:

We shouldn't settle for anything less than that.

Andrew:

Unfortunately, that's 46 years ago.

Andrew:

45. 46 years ago.

Andrew:

It's not that way yet.

Andrew:

She's right.

Andrew:

It should be that way, but it isn't that way.

Andrew:

It takes a long time.

Andrew:

I have to be patient here, looking at history, it takes a long time to have a major impact on

Andrew:

a culture, especially when you're dealing with philosophy, because you're dealing with the

Andrew:

most fundamental ideas in a person's life or in a society's life.

Andrew:

So some historical analogues.

Andrew:

It took some 300 years from Jesus's death

Andrew:

until Constantine and various roman emperors in the fourth century ad made Christianity the

Andrew:

official religion of the Roman Empire.

Andrew:

It was three centuries because they didn't

Andrew:

have modern means of communication, they didn't have book publishing, there was no

Andrew:

printing press, and there was certainly, but still it took centuries.

Andrew:

If we look at a second example, you look at the american universities.

Andrew:

What was the joke in Poland in 1989, after communism collapsed there?

Andrew:

That the only place where marxist intellectuals can now be employed is in the

Andrew:

american universities.

Blair:

Sadly true.

Andrew:

Well, they're probably employable in european universities.

Martin:

Yeah, that's for sure.

Martin:

But when you mentioned that, and please

Martin:

continue with your story, isn't that a positive sign that objectivists, scholars and

Martin:

others interested in her ideas in a serious way are now in academia and at universities

Martin:

and colleges and so on?

Andrew:

Well, I'd like to see many more.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Blair:

Not to be negative, but you can count them on a hand.

Blair:

One hand, maybe.

Andrew:

Yeah, there's too few.

Andrew:

Again, I want to be negative.

Andrew:

This is going to change.

Andrew:

I don't mean to say that we're failing.

Andrew:

What I mean to say is it's realistic to expect.

Andrew:

It takes a long time to have a major impact philosophy to have a major impact on a

Andrew:

culture.

Andrew:

So, going back to the story, Marx and Engels

Andrew:

published the communist manifesto in 1848, and they were parietals.

Andrew:

They were not recognized in the establishment in the university philosophy department in the

Andrew:

United States.

Andrew:

By the time Ayn ran gets here in 1920s, they

Andrew:

call the 1930s the red decade.

Andrew:

By that time, marxist ideas were firmly

Andrew:

entrenched in the universities.

Andrew:

That's 80 to 90 years after the publication of

Andrew:

the communist manifesto, and again, no Internet back then, but there was a publishing

Andrew:

industry, and it was roughly 80 years before Marxism becomes a dominant philosophy in the

Andrew:

american school system.

Andrew:

So it takes a long time.

Andrew:

It's not just that, but objectivism, just, you study it in the history of philosophy, and it

Andrew:

seems like common sense, existence exists.

Andrew:

Consciousness can't change existence by sheer

Andrew:

act of will and so on and so forth.

Andrew:

But you realize it has a lot of common sense

Andrew:

value, that it resonates with what better people call common sense.

Andrew:

But it's philosophically, it's enormously controversial.

Andrew:

I mean, the two dominant philosophies in the west, Christianity on the one hand, and

Andrew:

Marxism on the other, it's enormously different from them.

Andrew:

And that's especially obvious in the ethics for the religion you're supposed to provide

Andrew:

selfless service to God first and humanity second, and for Marx, selfless service to the

Andrew:

state.

Andrew:

And Rand rejects that entirely.

Andrew:

So it's really obvious at the moral level how different and revolutionary ein Rand's

Andrew:

philosophy is.

Andrew:

So we just need to expect it's going to take a

Andrew:

long time.

Andrew:

I'm impatient.

Andrew:

I want to see an injustice.

Andrew:

Especially with Ein Rand's novels.

Andrew:

The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrug should be taught in every 11th and twelveth grade

Andrew:

literature class in the country and around the world, and should be taught in every

Andrew:

university literature class.

Andrew:

And her novels are very rarely taught.

Andrew:

And it's going to change, but it's going to take a long time.

Martin:

And, Andrew, you helped with that, with the Cliff notes guides, right?

Andrew:

Yes. Yeah. I was very happy when the Iron Ran Institute came to me with a proposal

Andrew:

from Cliff notes to do the notes for the fountainhead, atlas Shrugged and anthem.

Andrew:

But let me tell you again, I don't want to sound pessimistic.

Andrew:

I'm not nearly as pessimistic as you're a realist.

Andrew:

I remember people.

Andrew:

It was a. Peter Schwartz once forbade Leonard

Andrew:

Piqua from articulating any pest.

Blair:

That's right.

Andrew:

He was so negative about the future prospects.

Andrew:

But, yeah, just the truth.

Andrew:

What we're dealing with, the general editor of

Andrew:

Cliff notes, this is 1999, 2000.

Andrew:

So it's roughly 25 years ago, told me, and

Andrew:

he's a really good guy.

Andrew:

I liked him.

Andrew:

He respected Iron man.

Andrew:

He liked Iron Rand's books.

Andrew:

Again, there's an encouraging sign, he liked Iron Rand's books.

Andrew:

The chief editor at Cliff notes was an Iron ran fan.

Andrew:

Good.

Andrew:

He was an objectivist, but he liked Iron

Andrew:

Rand's novels.

Andrew:

And that's a big positive, anyhow.

Andrew:

Yeah, he told me that when Cliff notes started out, 1950s, 1960s, when I was a kid in high

Andrew:

school and I was an english major in college, the english teachers in high school and

Andrew:

english professors in college told us, don't read the Cliff notes.

Andrew:

Not because the cliffs notes weren't any good.

Andrew:

It's because they wanted us to read these

Andrew:

classic books and not substitute the cliffs notes for them.

Andrew:

But the editor pointed out to me, Cliff's notes demographic overwhelmingly was high

Andrew:

school and college kids back know.

Andrew:

Some of them read the cliff's notes instead of

Andrew:

the book.

Andrew:

Some of them read the cliffs notes to gain a

Andrew:

better understanding of the books.

Andrew:

But it was the students.

Andrew:

By the year 2000, a lot had changed.

Andrew:

Their main demographic, they told me, was now

Andrew:

high school english teachers who had never read these classic novels when they were

Andrew:

college students, and they needed the.

Andrew:

And words, they couldn't understand them, and

Andrew:

they needed the cliff notes to explain to them.

Andrew:

So that's an indication of having how dumbed down the american school system is and how

Andrew:

dumbed down the teachers colleges are.

Andrew:

Put it simply, the english teachers, the

Andrew:

future english teachers, are taking education courses, so they're taking fewer literature

Andrew:

courses.

Andrew:

The future math teachers are taking education

Andrew:

courses, so they're taking fewer math courses, so they're not as steeped in their subject as

Andrew:

they should be.

Andrew:

So one reason why you're not seeing as many

Andrew:

high school english teachers teaching the fountain Atlas Rucht is a lot of the english

Andrew:

teachers have never read them and would, unfortunately, probably struggle to understand

Andrew:

them.

Andrew:

But anyway, I think it was a positive to have

Andrew:

Cliff's notes for Ein Rand's novels, and especially written by an objectivist who loves

Andrew:

Ein Rand's novels.

Blair:

That's true.

Blair:

This actually is one of the questions I had

Blair:

was, you've written and spoken a great deal about her works.

Blair:

Describe some of the work you yourself have done to make understanding her ideas more

Blair:

accessible.

Blair:

Obviously, you just covered the cliff notes

Blair:

you've done.

Blair:

So describe some other things you've done to

Blair:

spread her ideas.

Blair:

I mean, you've done lecture courses and you've

Blair:

written other books.

Blair:

Can you highlight some of those?

Andrew:

Yes, certainly.

Andrew:

Well, for one thing, the introductory text on

Andrew:

objectivism that I wrote, objectivism in one lesson, an introduction to the philosophy of

Andrew:

which I, which I think is a good introduction to Leonard Peacock's OPA.

Andrew:

It was designed to be that bridge for people who like or love Ein Rand's novels, but aren't

Andrew:

ready for Opa, because Leonard Peacock's book, objectivism, philosophy of Ayn Rand, is a

Andrew:

brilliant work on philosophy, but it's advanced.

Andrew:

And so objectivism, one lesson was designed to be the bridge between Ein Rand's novels and

Andrew:

opar.

Andrew:

And the one lesson, of course, is that the

Andrew:

mind is mankind's means of survival, and the mind needs to be free, and so on and so forth.

Andrew:

And I show that all through that reason is the means by which human beings gain knowledge and

Andrew:

survive and flourish, and so on and so forth, and show that all through.

Andrew:

That's the lesson that comes up all through the book.

Andrew:

So I was trying to reach people who liked Einran's novels and wanted to further study

Andrew:

her philosophy.

Andrew:

Then there was a book, even I can't even

Andrew:

remember the title of it at this point, because I've done so many things on Iron man,

Andrew:

but there was a book that was graphic.

Andrew:

It's got drawings in it that was designed for

Andrew:

people who never even read the.

Andrew:

Sorry.

Andrew:

It's okay.

Martin:

We'll find it later on.

Martin:

But now I got.

Martin:

We have read them or got them.

Martin:

Blair, we have to check that out.

Blair:

I'm sure I have almost everything Andy's done, both written works and lectures.

Andrew:

Iron ran for beginners.

Andrew:

That's the name.

Andrew:

Sorry, it slipped my.

Andrew:

Yes, yes.

Andrew:

Long time since I thought about this.

Andrew:

There's a for Beginners series.

Andrew:

And the funny thing, they did the Iron ran for beginners.

Andrew:

And again, they hired me to do it at the same time that they did a Howard Zinn for

Andrew:

beginners.

Andrew:

Zinn, of course, was a communist, not just a

Andrew:

marxist intellectual.

Andrew:

And his book on american history is just a

Andrew:

real smear.

Andrew:

But anyway, Iron ran for beginners.

Andrew:

And the illustrator, Owen Brosmith, I think his name was, who did the illustrations in the

Andrew:

book was really good.

Andrew:

I love the drawings of rock and Dominique.

Andrew:

In the chapter on the Fountainhead, rock is presented this very manly kind of guy.

Andrew:

And Dominique is so feminine and so attractive.

Andrew:

But Ein Rand for beginners was designed for people who maybe never even read.

Andrew:

So there's a chapter on each one of Ein Rand's novels.

Andrew:

There's chapters on objectivism.

Andrew:

So that's really.

Andrew:

Objectivism in one lesson is designed for people who love Iron Rand's novels and wanted

Andrew:

an introduction to her philosophy, where Zainran for beginners is designed for people

Andrew:

who never even read Iron Rand but might have heard her name and are interested in what she

Andrew:

had to say.

Andrew:

So yeah, I did a lot of work on trying to get

Andrew:

beginning students or people who are maybe literary, like fiction, but aren't familiar

Andrew:

with philosophy, to get them much more familiar with Iron Man's books, her novels and

Andrew:

her philosophy.

Andrew:

And then there's all the lecture courses that

Andrew:

I've done as well.

Andrew:

Lectures and lecture courses, a lot of them

Andrew:

for different objectivist organizations, including the of work.

Andrew:

A lot of work on Ein Rand's books and philosophy for me, sure.

Blair:

Now I want to sidestep Ms. Rand's ideas just for a minute and talk about another book

Blair:

you wrote about the history of capitalism, right?

Blair:

The literary, historical, philosophical base of capitalism.

Blair:

I understand you recently bought the rights for that back for yourself, is that correct?

Andrew:

No, I've heard that rumor.

Andrew:

I don't know where that.

Andrew:

I've heard that.

Andrew:

Where that got started from.

Andrew:

You talk about the capitalist manifesto.

Blair:

Thank you.

Blair:

Yes.

Andrew:

That book was published by.

Andrew:

I mean, that may be possible to get.

Andrew:

For me to buy the rights.

Andrew:

I could look into that, and I've heard rumors

Andrew:

to that a lot.

Blair:

Well, I'm sorry.

Andrew:

It's not a bad idea.

Andrew:

Cattle's manifesto was published by University

Andrew:

Press of America, which is a subsidiary of Roman Littlefield, which is a major academic

Andrew:

publisher.

Andrew:

And academic publishers are not, they're not

Andrew:

tremendously entrepreneurial, let's put it that know they sell to libraries.

Andrew:

I don't mean to disparage.

Andrew:

They, they did a really good job with the

Andrew:

book.

Andrew:

The late, great Judy Rothman was running that

Andrew:

division at Roman Littlefield, and she told me in so many words that that was her favorite

Andrew:

book that they ever published.

Blair:

Nice.

Andrew:

Yeah. Unfortunately, she died a few years ago of cancer, but she did a great job.

Andrew:

It may be possible to get the rights to buy the rights from them.

Andrew:

So this book was published in 2005.

Andrew:

So it's almost 20 years old.

Andrew:

It's probably not a big seller for them anymore.

Andrew:

And then if I have the rights to it, there's different things I could do.

Andrew:

Trying to be entrepreneurial to get them, could update the book, have a new edition.

Martin:

That's a good idea, Blair, that slipped your mind now.

Martin:

So that's now ball in action rolling here, because now it's so important to have a full

Martin:

integrated system.

Martin:

And it's very easy.

Martin:

I could say that personally because I came to the philosophy through, or how do you say,

Martin:

from my interest in politics.

Martin:

And then I understand it was an integrated

Martin:

system that I needed and read it for her novels.

Martin:

But now, like capitalist manifesto could be like a blueprint and only to touch it because

Martin:

that could follow up what's going on in the world, for example, in Argentina.

Martin:

Now, if you understand it and have a foundation, your book could be the perfect

Martin:

manifesto and blueprint for a new country or a country that want to come back to the roots

Martin:

like foundation as the founding fathers and others and the ancient Greece and the

Martin:

Renaissance in Italy, and we are now fighting for the second renaissance.

Martin:

How about that? Because importance of literature and novels

Martin:

and ideas, again with the Atlas Shrugged and other books that lots of people, politicians

Martin:

and others have been influenced by her work, then the question is how much have they

Martin:

understood it, integrated in their own personal life for selfish reasons, and then

Martin:

how to spread the word, right?

Andrew:

Yes, absolutely.

Andrew:

I have a piece of good news here about

Andrew:

capitalism, and that is, and again, give credit here.

Andrew:

My buddy Mark Dakuna, I'm sure, you know, editor and publisher of capitalism in the

Andrew:

Bahamas, capitalismmagazine.com, a few years ago gave me the idea.

Andrew:

He said, you should write a really short book, like maybe 70 or 80 pages at the morals of

Andrew:

booklet.

Andrew:

And the title would be something like

Andrew:

capitalism is the practical system because it's the moral system or something like that.

Andrew:

That would be the lesson that capitalism is the practical system because it's the moral

Andrew:

system.

Andrew:

And I've written it, it's done, or at least it

Andrew:

has not yet been accepted for publication at the objective standard.

Andrew:

But we've gone through a lot of editing there with John Hersey at Tos and hoping that Craig

Andrew:

Biddle will publish it and publish it soon.

Andrew:

But any in the objective standard, I think

Andrew:

there's a very good chance of that.

Andrew:

But if they publish it, they're going to

Andrew:

reissue it as a booklet, not just as an essay in the magazine, and then distribute it widely

Andrew:

to students.

Andrew:

They bring in all these students for liberty

Andrew:

kids and these students from around the world to their conferences and stuff, right?

Andrew:

So it would get some exposure.

Andrew:

And anyhow, it's like, I don't know, forget

Andrew:

how many pages.

Andrew:

It's about 40 pages.

Andrew:

Everything I know about capitalism condensed from 500 pages of the capitalist manifesto

Andrew:

into like a 40 or 50 page booklet or something like that, it gives an integrated case for

Andrew:

capitalism.

Andrew:

It shows that capitalism is the moral system.

Andrew:

That's a practical system because it's the moral system.

Andrew:

And it hits it from every angle, from economic principles, economic theory, to the facts of

Andrew:

economic history, to history more broadly, and how destitute people were prior to capitalism,

Andrew:

to the underlying philosophy that the mind is man's means of survival and the mind needs to

Andrew:

be free to the ethics that life is the standard and capitalism promotes life.

Andrew:

And egoism is rational.

Andrew:

Egoism is a proper moral code.

Andrew:

It validates capitalism in this all around, multi interdisciplinary way that I think is

Andrew:

rationally unanswerable.

Andrew:

And it's brief and it's hard hitting that.

Andrew:

So I'm looking forward to getting that out in the new year.

Blair:

Great. Excellent.

Blair:

Well, listen, tap my own horn here for a

Blair:

moment.

Blair:

Speaking for myself, the fact that I'm alive,

Blair:

I've lived during the time that Iran lived and I read her work.

Blair:

I was able to see the greatness that man can achieve, or that man is, if you will, and the

Blair:

potential of man.

Blair:

And I'm grateful to her and to myself,

Blair:

frankly, for recognizing it.

Blair:

So I am an egoist.

Blair:

And I don't apologize.

Andrew:

I don't think Martin and I are going to ask you to apologize.

Blair:

I know that.

Blair:

But do you see Ms. Randis having an impact?

Blair:

Well, obviously she has had an impact, but what do you think of the.

Andrew:

Have?

Blair:

If we can gain more than a toehold that we have, if you will, what does the future

Blair:

look like under objectivism?

Andrew:

Yeah, well, future could be very bright, but let me ask a couple of questions

Andrew:

myself here, if I can answer your question, and that is there were some bright spots

Andrew:

emerging politically.

Andrew:

Right, Mile, is that how you say his name?

Andrew:

Mile in Argentina.

Andrew:

Javier Milay.

Andrew:

Is that his name?

Blair:

That's correct, yes.

Andrew:

Yeah. And he's trained in austrian economics.

Andrew:

Right.

Andrew:

And he's outspoken, standing up and speaking

Andrew:

his mind on this.

Andrew:

It's great to see.

Andrew:

Sounds like he's read Iron Rand.

Andrew:

I don't know.

Andrew:

Do you know if he has? He sounds like it at times.

Blair:

I think he has, but he hasn't had the courage to mention her yet.

Blair:

But I think he has.

Andrew:

Yes, he sounds like it, but he's certainly in that ballpark.

Andrew:

And another guy, I think, in America who has potential is Vivek Ramaswami, who is a very

Andrew:

mixed case.

Andrew:

All politicians.

Blair:

True.

Andrew:

But some of the things where he's good, he is really good.

Andrew:

I know he's religious.

Andrew:

I don't think you can make much headway in the

Andrew:

republican party these days if you're not.

Andrew:

He's a practicing hindu, I believe.

Andrew:

He talks about christian values and being the fountainhead of western civilization or

Andrew:

whatever, but he's a possible bright spot for the future.

Andrew:

He's very smart, he's very articulate.

Andrew:

He stands up to the left some ways.

Andrew:

He's a supporter of liberty in a number of ways.

Andrew:

So I think he could be a bright spot for the republican party in the coming years.

Andrew:

We'll see.

Andrew:

Because he's very.

Blair:

Right. Right.

Blair:

I agree with supported.

Blair:

I still support Vivek for the current leading.

Andrew:

Yeah, Trump is a very mixed case.

Andrew:

I'm not as anti Trump as a lot of objectivists

Andrew:

are, but he comes with a lot of baggage, that's for sure.

Blair:

But you're right.

Blair:

So two bright spots.

Blair:

That's correct.

Andrew:

Yeah. It's possible here to see this, and it's too easy to get pessimistic.

Andrew:

Let me give you an example.

Andrew:

So mid 1980s, I'm a cold war kid.

Andrew:

I was born in 51.

Andrew:

I was born into a world where the Soviet Union

Andrew:

was a dangerous power.

Andrew:

I'm old enough to remember when the Berlin

Andrew:

Wall went up in 61, never mind when it came down in 89, cold war kid.

Andrew:

And what you grow up with, you expect to always be.

Andrew:

And in the mid 1980s, like 1985, educated, knowledgeable people tell me the Soviet Union

Andrew:

has real problems, they might collapse at some point.

Andrew:

And I stop.

Andrew:

From your lips to God's ears.

Andrew:

To me, the Soviet Union was as part of the world I was born into, and it was always going

Andrew:

to be part of the world I was in.

Andrew:

And then what happens?

Andrew:

In 1989, we see the soviet empire disintegrate.

Andrew:

And then, a couple of years later, the Soviet Union itself collapses.

Andrew:

And for a few years, when that poor, drunken Yeltsin was in office, Russia wasn't an enemy

Andrew:

at the time, western researchers were allowed into study of soviet archives, and we learned

Andrew:

a lot about soviet activities during the cold War, during World War II, and so on.

Andrew:

And anyway, point is, good things happen in the world.

Andrew:

It's not just that bad stuff happened.

Andrew:

Good things are possible.

Andrew:

Even when I didn't expect it, it's possible.

Andrew:

So what would a world look like with

Andrew:

objectivism as a dominant philosophy? Now?

Andrew:

We're a long ways from that, obviously, but the thing that comes to my mind, first and

Andrew:

foremost is the outpouring of advances in every field imaginable, from a to z, from

Andrew:

architecture to zoology, or anything in between.

Andrew:

It's like the american economist Julian Simon's book the ultimate resource, published

Andrew:

roughly 1980.

Andrew:

He's very similar, very similar theme to iron

Andrew:

Rand, that the ultimate resource, natural resource, in the world, is not oil or coal or

Andrew:

iron ore or fertile ants.

Andrew:

It's the human mind, human intelligence.

Andrew:

And Simon pointed, you know, very similar time, rand, that growing population is not a

Andrew:

problem.

Andrew:

A growing population.

Andrew:

Paul Ehrlich and a lot of the environmentalists think growing population is

Andrew:

going to trigger massive starvation.

Andrew:

Echoey, Maldives, from the late 18th turn of

Andrew:

the 19th century.

Andrew:

Thomas, Maldives.

Andrew:

That human population will inevitably outstrip food production, and we're going to have

Andrew:

massive famines.

Andrew:

Simon pointed out, in contrast to that, that

Andrew:

the more human beings there are, the more minds there are to work on the problems of

Andrew:

human life.

Andrew:

And that's true, provided we have politics of

Andrew:

individual rights.

Andrew:

But what we need here, not even Simon, who's

Andrew:

brilliant, nobody articulated this vision the way I ranted in Atlas Shrugged.

Andrew:

What we need is a culture of reason and a politics of individual rights.

Andrew:

A culture of reason dedicated not to faith or going by my feelings, not to denigrate

Andrew:

feelings.

Andrew:

Our feelings are important.

Andrew:

This is the way we experience life.

Andrew:

But they're not towards a cognition.

Andrew:

Just because we feel something is true doesn't mean it's true, right?

Andrew:

We need evidence, we need rationality to decide that where the evidence lies, a culture

Andrew:

committed to reason and a politics of individual rights.

Andrew:

And stand back and just watch the torrential outpouring of innovations.

Andrew:

We've seen an example, some examples of that.

Andrew:

Historically, what I call the inventive

Andrew:

period, late 19th century America was similar to think about America in the late 19th

Andrew:

century for just a minute, especially in the northern states where there were no Jim Crow

Andrew:

laws, oppressing, brutally oppressing black Americans.

Andrew:

But look at who was operative in this period at the same time.

Andrew:

Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell, the Wright brothers are doing their incipient

Andrew:

study, bicycle mechanics doing their incipient study on aeronautics.

Andrew:

George Eastman is revolutionizing the field of photography.

Andrew:

George Westinghouse and Nikola Tesla competing with Edison in the War of the Currents, AC DC

Andrew:

revolutionizing the production of electricity.

Andrew:

Carnegie is mass producing steel.

Andrew:

Rockefeller is mass producing petroleum products.

Andrew:

Henry Ford is right on his way to mass produced the automobile.

Andrew:

James J. Hill and Edward H. Harriman revolutionized the railroad industry.

Andrew:

These guys all living at the same time.

Martin:

And Andrew, you have covered these in the hero show, right?

Andrew:

Yeah. Most of these great individuals we've discussed on the various hero show

Andrew:

episodes.

Andrew:

But the event, the american historians call it

Andrew:

the Gilded Age, taking the phrase as if the essence of late 19th century America was

Andrew:

corruption.

Andrew:

How do you miss this corruption?

Andrew:

Corruption exists anywhere you go.

Andrew:

And it's much more pandemic in status

Andrew:

societies than in the freer societies, because in the status ones, honest people have to

Andrew:

bribe government officials or commissars just in order to live.

Andrew:

Corruption is not the dominant essence of late 19th century America.

Andrew:

This enormous outburst of applied science and technological advance, which is not to

Andrew:

denigrate the humanities either.

Andrew:

I mean, Mark Twain was writing at that time,

Andrew:

and the film industry is shortly to be born in America.

Andrew:

The mass publishing industry is born in America.

Andrew:

Marconi, who's european, comes to the United States to commercialize radio.

Andrew:

Television industry is going to be born right out of RCA Radio Corporation of America, which

Andrew:

I think was founded on Marconi's american patent.

Andrew:

It's amazing.

Andrew:

And the United States in the late 19th century

Andrew:

was almost less a fair.

Andrew:

Not in the south, the brutal Jim Crow laws,

Andrew:

but in the north.

Andrew:

Northern states were almost less a fair.

Andrew:

You had some rights infringing legislation.

Andrew:

You had the Sherman Antitrust act, you had the

Andrew:

interstate Commerce Commission, you had Teddy Roosevelt's trust busting going on in early

Andrew:

20th century.

Andrew:

But it was as close as we've come historically

Andrew:

to a lesser society.

Andrew:

And the United States, of course, as ein man

Andrew:

pointed out, was the nation of the enlightenment.

Andrew:

And the essence of the Enlightenment was, and Benjamin Franklin is a perfect example of it.

Andrew:

In the United States was applied reason to use our rational faculties to develop methods and

Andrew:

new products and inventions and technologies that better human life.

Andrew:

Franklin, of course, was a great scientist, great inventor, the bifocals lightning rod,

Andrew:

the Franklin stove, and America, the nation of the Enlightenment, founded on enlightenment

Andrew:

principles of applied reason to improve human life.

Andrew:

And what we saw in late 19th century America was the closest we've come to a culture of

Andrew:

reason, a politics of individual rights.

Andrew:

And my God, this could be all over the world.

Andrew:

This could be all over the world.

Andrew:

Just imagine the symphonies that are written

Andrew:

and the songs and the novels and the paintings and the sculptures and the advances in every

Andrew:

scientific field.

Andrew:

Who'll be the next Darwin?

Andrew:

Who revolutionized the field of biology? Who's the next Newton or Einstein?

Andrew:

Who revolutionized the field of physics? Who's the next Rand?

Andrew:

Who revolutionized the field of literature and philosophy?

Andrew:

Well, if we have a world, 8 billion human beings in a culture of reason and a politics

Andrew:

of individual rights, whoa, the advances, it'll be monumental.

Andrew:

But we have to get there.

Andrew:

We have to keep fighting for that world and

Andrew:

convince people, read Ein Rand's novels, read the Fountainhead, read Atlas Shrugg, study

Andrew:

objectivism, because know, first, foremost, and always, like you said, blair, where ego is

Andrew:

so in our own lives, what this could mean in my own life, and then secondly, what this

Andrew:

could mean in the culture.

Andrew:

And the second part relates to the first,

Andrew:

because what this means in the culture, this outpouring of advances I've described, will

Andrew:

have an enormously positive impact on my own life and your own life and every individual's

Andrew:

own.

Blair:

Good. Very good.

Blair:

Let me throw this at you, Andy.

Blair:

For the last several years, I've stepped back and I've tried to get a broad picture, like a

Blair:

grand picture of life.

Blair:

And I think that we're experiencing to, I'm

Blair:

just going to say, like the end of the.

Blair:

And, you know, you see the Soviet Union

Blair:

collapse, you see Europe and.

Blair:

Sorry, sorry, Martin, maybe not.

Andrew:

Sweden have all kinds of problems with islamic immigrants that I read about recently.

Blair:

Yeah, so there's that.

Blair:

And you see America divided 50 50 between, I

Blair:

think the political parties are like 25 years behind the actual culture.

Blair:

We're right in that flux of time where, okay, these things are ending, and yet the things

Blair:

that are replacing them, they're in the culture.

Blair:

There are currents in the culture, yet they don't quite have the foothold yet.

Blair:

Does that make any sense to you? One of those footholds would be objectivism.

Andrew:

Yeah. And it's a fool's errand.

Andrew:

To try to predict the you.

Andrew:

I gave one example already.

Andrew:

I like to think I'm as insightful as the next

Andrew:

guy.

Andrew:

But I did not see the collapse of the Soviet

Andrew:

Union and the soviet empire coming.

Andrew:

I was very pleasantly surprised then a very

Andrew:

unpleasant surprise, I thought, on 911 when I saw the towers come down on tv, it just

Andrew:

sickened me because the thought in my mind was how many thousands of human beings did I just

Andrew:

watch get know when those towers collapse? It was just absolutely sickening.

Andrew:

And if you remember, if you were living in the New York area there, my ex wife and I were

Andrew:

living in the New York suburbs.

Andrew:

It was a beautiful a. It was a warm but not

Andrew:

hot, cool breeze blowing sunny days, a beautiful day.

Andrew:

I was standing looking out my kitchen window.

Andrew:

I couldn't watch the tv anymore.

Andrew:

Sun shining, the birds are chirping.

Andrew:

I'm in the suburbs and this horror is going

Andrew:

on.

Andrew:

Reminder.

Andrew:

And I thought of iron ran because it was one of her last Ford hall appearances, roughly

Andrew:

1980.

Andrew:

I don't remember what year it was.

Andrew:

And she said, I think it's in the q and a. She said, I'm glad I'm old.

Andrew:

She said, I'm not going to have to live through the kinds of things that you young

Andrew:

people will have to live.

Andrew:

So you can't predict the specifics of the

Andrew:

future.

Andrew:

But Ein Rand knew, given the philosophy in the

Andrew:

United States and western civilization that we're headed in a bad direction.

Andrew:

And I thought of that.

Andrew:

911.

Andrew:

You could not have predicted that it would be islamic terrorism that do something this

Andrew:

heinous, this atrocity.

Andrew:

But I was pessimistic then that Bush was

Andrew:

president.

Andrew:

That was the point that wanted Teddy Roosevelt

Andrew:

to be president for all of his trust busting, power lusting.

Andrew:

I asked myself of all the US presidents, who would I want to be president today?

Andrew:

September 11.

Andrew:

September twelveth, 2001.

Andrew:

I thought Teddy Roosevelt because he would use the full power of the US military to destroy

Andrew:

our enemies.

Andrew:

And I knew no current president would.

Andrew:

Given the philosophy and the culture, nobody would use the US military the way it needed to

Andrew:

be used and to go after the iranian regime and just wipe it out to, to the last man who

Andrew:

supports that vicious regime.

Andrew:

But given the philosophy that dominates in the

Andrew:

culture, all this bad stuff is going to happen.

Andrew:

We can't predict the particular.

Andrew:

So it was still the, here's the thing.

Andrew:

In contrast us today, we'll say the time of World War II.

Andrew:

I think it was FDR of all people as president back in the 1940s.

Andrew:

I think it was FDR who said because I know John David Lewis has written on this.

Andrew:

I remember reading this in one of his essays.

Andrew:

In the objective standard.

Andrew:

He said, we have to.

Andrew:

I think it was FDR said, we have to defang the

Andrew:

predatory animals of the world, or something like that.

Andrew:

Defang the predatory creatures of the world.

Andrew:

It was something like that.

Andrew:

Can you imagine a US president saying that today?

Andrew:

Back then, the philosophy and the culture was still pro american, and you could say things

Andrew:

like that and the american people would be behind you.

Andrew:

And even the intellectuals may not want to burn you at the stake.

Andrew:

For today.

Andrew:

We're so mired in anti american leftism and

Andrew:

multiculturalism, and the cultures are all equal.

Andrew:

We can't possibly criticize islamic culture and so on and so forth.

Andrew:

There's going to be these kind of atrocities like we saw in Israel.

Andrew:

And yet, here's the good news.

Andrew:

You can't predict it, but people still want to

Andrew:

live.

Andrew:

Most people around the world are not like the

Andrew:

jihadists.

Andrew:

The jihadists say in so many words, you want

Andrew:

to live, we want to die.

Andrew:

And by the way, if I was president, I would

Andrew:

find a way to accommodate them.

Blair:

Exactly.

Andrew:

Everybody could be happy.

Andrew:

Then the people who want to live can live, and

Andrew:

the people who want to die will be killed.

Andrew:

That could be worked out, but we need the

Andrew:

right philosophy.

Blair:

I've often commented that if I were president, I would make Iran our nuclear

Blair:

waste.

Andrew:

Yeah. Iran is the fountainhead of islamic fundamentals.

Blair:

And I think that would alert the other countries in that area to either shape up or

Blair:

face the same.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Martin:

And Blair and Andy, I have plenty of individuals who are Persians, and I've been

Martin:

demonstrating against the regime there and the people there and the civilians.

Martin:

They don't want regimes.

Martin:

And they know things will happen and change if

Martin:

we give them moral support and talk about it.

Blair:

That's true.

Martin:

It will happen, and I will not predict the future.

Martin:

And people could so called consult me because I've been in contact with friends that know

Martin:

the situation.

Martin:

We could see some really bright things, but it

Martin:

will be worse before it will become better.

Martin:

But I have some ideas about what could happen

Martin:

in a positive way.

Martin:

So when you were thinking, talking about that,

Martin:

for example, I know Rand's works have been translated in many languages, and I think you

Martin:

should read it in original, in English.

Martin:

But I see potential for the future.

Martin:

Do you have a copy? I bought a copy of Rand's work, like a

Martin:

collection in Russian back in the day that they did.

Martin:

They did a special edition with a russian publisher.

Martin:

And I see that that could be, even with today's date.

Martin:

I mean, nowadays you could find everything on the Internet.

Martin:

When we had study clubs and philosophy clubs and also we got permission to get translated

Martin:

works and having that on the book fair, but now you could find it.

Martin:

But I still think literature and novels and books and hard copies and soft covers will be

Martin:

handed out also in a good way.

Andrew:

Well, you know, Martin, I hear your point.

Andrew:

The pen is mightier than the sword.

Andrew:

And this would be a tremendous boon to world

Andrew:

peace and world development.

Andrew:

If there is a revolution in Iran that

Andrew:

overthrows the regime of the ayatollahs and establishes much more reason based secular

Andrew:

culture in Iran, that would be a seismic shift similar to the collapse of the Soviet Union,

Andrew:

for example.

Martin:

Do you know that is like a free market think tank in Lebanon, you know, exist.

Martin:

That's the thing.

Martin:

And they are a key player.

Martin:

Also, it could be positive.

Blair:

There are bright spots all around the world.

Andrew:

Yes. And here's what I've thought.

Andrew:

We need to wage of the philosophic conflict

Andrew:

here.

Andrew:

And one thing I would do and focus on Iran.

Andrew:

What's the mother tongue in Iran?

Martin:

Persian.

Andrew:

Persian.

Andrew:

Okay.

Martin:

Farsi.

Andrew:

I would translate Atlas shrugged into every language of the arab islamic world.

Andrew:

Especially Farsi or Parsi?

Martin:

Farsi.

Andrew:

Especially Farsi.

Andrew:

And an airdrop.

Andrew:

Millions and millions and millions of copies of atlas shrugged across the arab islamic

Andrew:

world and be prepared to do it for centuries.

Andrew:

But we would need to embrace Atlas Shrugged

Andrew:

and iron man's philosophy ourselves.

Andrew:

Live by it.

Andrew:

But that would be an enormous step towards.

Andrew:

Because Islam is.

Andrew:

I've said this many times, I'll say it again.

Andrew:

There's an enormous difference here.

Andrew:

I strongly disagree with western leftists who criticize Christianity more than Islam.

Andrew:

There's an enormous difference between Christianity and Islam that greatly favors

Andrew:

Christianity.

Andrew:

In fact, there's several.

Andrew:

But one of them is that Christianity's founder was not a war lord.

Andrew:

He didn't practice war and he didn't preach war.

Andrew:

He practiced peace and he preached peace, at least if we accept the gospels.

Andrew:

So that when christian warriors perpetrate all these atrocities like they did, let's say,

Andrew:

during the catholic protestant wars that tore Europe apart in the 16th and 17th centuries,

Andrew:

they're acting in contradiction to the principles of the religion's founding.

Andrew:

But Muhammad, unlike Jesus, Muhammad was a warlord.

Andrew:

He preached holy war, he practiced holy war.

Andrew:

The Quran and the hadith show us this.

Andrew:

He's the ideal man.

Andrew:

He's supposed to be emulated by all Muslims.

Andrew:

He was a warrior.

Andrew:

And so when islamic warriors perpetrate all

Andrew:

these atrocities and they're acting in accordance with the teachings of their

Andrew:

founders.

Andrew:

It makes it a much more intractable problem to

Andrew:

pacify Islam than it is to pacify Christianity.

Andrew:

And so we need to wage the philosophic struggle to objectivize the Middle east and

Andrew:

the arab islamic world.

Andrew:

But we can't do that unless here's one of the

Andrew:

positive things that can come out of the west embracing objectivism entirely.

Andrew:

We could wage the philosophical struggle then against the arab islamic world, and in time,

Andrew:

we could win that.

Andrew:

We could win that struggle.

Andrew:

We could see another golden age of Islam, or a golden age in the Middle east, where Islam is

Andrew:

muted and where Islam is very secondary, the way Christianity is in the west, where it's

Andrew:

been secularized.

Andrew:

And you can see all these great minds in the

Andrew:

arab islamic world again.

Martin:

And I would know Aristotle adventure, the book.

Martin:

And so fascinating.

Martin:

Read the history.

Martin:

So I see that could happen again.

Andrew:

That was Burgess Lachlan's book.

Blair:

Yes, wonderful book.

Blair:

Wonderful book.

Andrew:

Yeah. The way Aristotle was widely studied in the arab islamic world, and all

Andrew:

these great minds, Averouiz is only one, any number of them, Aristotle scholars, and made

Andrew:

all these advances in medicine in every field imaginable.

Andrew:

I wrote an essay in tos twelve years ago, great islamic thinkers versus Islam, and there

Andrew:

was a culture war there.

Andrew:

And unfortunately, it was won by the Orthodox

Andrew:

Muslim, not by the philosophers, not by the intellectuals.

Andrew:

And the Arab islamic world, in my judgment, has been in a dark age for the last 800 years,

Andrew:

but doesn't have to be forever.

Andrew:

Objectivism is the panacea here also.

Martin:

So, Blair, with our podcast, we have a mission to convert.

Blair:

Well, that's one of the things I was just about to say individually.

Blair:

Ever since I was introduced to the fountainhead in 1979, following, and also

Blair:

Atlas Shrugged, I've acted as a flame spotter, and I've introduced over 40 people to her

Blair:

novels, and only one person out of all those people rejected.

Blair:

And I will continue to seek out those types of people for the rest of my life.

Blair:

And this podcast, we are downloaded in 90 countries.

Blair:

We do have an audience.

Blair:

I think these things are positive things on an

Blair:

individual level.

Blair:

It's up to every one of us to do our part, so

Blair:

to speak.

Andrew:

Yes. And you talk about being a flame spotter.

Andrew:

I've handed out copies of Iron Rand's novels, generally the Fountainhead, which I think is a

Andrew:

great introduction to Iron Rand's thinking, to people who are just basically honest and who

Andrew:

are readers, and tell them, read this book.

Andrew:

This is the greatest book I've ever read,

Andrew:

something like that.

Andrew:

But in order to be, I think we need to stress,

Andrew:

in order to be an effective flame spotter, we need to be the flame.

Andrew:

And that is, we need to live it in our own lives.

Andrew:

That's right.

Andrew:

For our own sake, because we're egoists.

Andrew:

And living by this philosophy can enable us to achieve success in every arena, in personal

Andrew:

relationships, in education, in career, in health and fitness.

Andrew:

There's times when I feel sorry for myself about this, that the other thing I'll remind

Andrew:

myself all the things I have to be grateful for.

Andrew:

One was being born in the United States, where I could easily have been born.

Andrew:

I was born in 1951.

Andrew:

I could easily have been born in China.

Andrew:

Under Mao.

Andrew:

It's a much larger population.

Andrew:

Much larger population, even despite Mao, you know, in the United States.

Andrew:

So, thank God I was born in the United States.

Andrew:

But also remind myself I was born in a post

Andrew:

iron Rand world.

Andrew:

I was born into a world where the fountainhead

Andrew:

exists, where Atlas shrugged exists.

Andrew:

Atlas Shrugged was published when I was six,

Andrew:

but I was born into a world where Ein Rand's novels exist.

Andrew:

I was born to a world where objectivism exists and have this tremendous tool to improve my

Andrew:

life.

Andrew:

And how valuable is that?

Andrew:

So if we live it out, we become the flame people, discerning people go, wow, look what

Andrew:

you did.

Andrew:

Look what you did in your life.

Andrew:

I really respect the things you've done.

Andrew:

How did you do it?

Andrew:

You're in a position, then once we live it, we're in a position, then once we walk the

Andrew:

walk, we're in a position.

Andrew:

Much better position to talk to.

Blair:

On that, I think.

Blair:

On that note, I think we should end this

Blair:

wonderful show.

Martin:

Yeah, Blair, we will end it.

Martin:

But I will do a plug here.

Martin:

What you could do, if you value this conversation material.

Martin:

And a great Andy here returning guest and celebrate Rand's day.

Martin:

The hashtag rand stay, that was coined and also domain by, I think, harry Bainswanger.

Martin:

And then we have seen it, articles and blog posts about that.

Martin:

And if you search on Twitter now called x, around February 2, you will find this

Martin:

celebration about Rand's birthday.

Martin:

And then you could send what I have not

Martin:

created, but added to something called a GitHub list of boostgram.

Martin:

Like if you say a digital telegram of donation, a list where rent stay.

Martin:

And that's 22195.

Martin:

So then I will give you then the quiz here to

Martin:

Blair and Andy.

Martin:

What's 22195 satushis standing for?

Andrew:

I'm sorry, go on.

Andrew:

What was.

Martin:

No problem.

Martin:

So that's Rand's birthday.

Martin:

So two, two second February 2, one nine five.

Martin:

And that's a number in satushis that today

Martin:

when we record this is around $100.01.

Martin:

Year ago, it was around $50.

Martin:

And I will send that donation to a podcast around that day.

Martin:

But also, listeners to this show could send us a donation.

Martin:

They could send 22195 satushis, but they could also pick a number or whatever they want to

Martin:

send.

Martin:

And this satushi is like a part of a bitcoin.

Martin:

So if you take one bitcoin and divide it 100 million times, you get one satushi.

Martin:

So now, Andy, when you are on this show, we will create a split.

Martin:

So in future donation, you will get a cut of that, and I will say, propose around 33%.

Martin:

We will give a bit to podcastindex.org and also podcast players or podcast service like

Martin:

Truefans FM by Sam SETi.

Martin:

So I will set up that in the near future.

Martin:

So that's one way you could support our show and value yourself and content creators out

Martin:

there and celebrate birthday.

Andrew:

Excellent. Definitely. Definitely celebrate Iron Rand's birthday.

Andrew:

Thank you for all that one.

Martin:

Yes.

Blair:

All right.

Blair:

Well, Andy, once again, I appreciate you

Blair:

toughing it out.

Blair:

I know you've been recovering from what I call

Blair:

the crud.

Andrew:

Yeah, the crud.

Andrew:

Yeah. All congested and everything and not

Andrew:

feeling great, but I didn't want to miss this.

Andrew:

This is a great occasion, and hopefully in a

Andrew:

couple of years, we do it again.

Andrew:

We can find more instances of vine Rand's

Andrew:

influence.

Martin:

It's true.

Blair:

All right, Andy, thanks for manning the foxhole with us.

Andrew:

Always good to be in the foxhole with you guys.

Blair:

I appreciate, Andy, thanks.

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