In this episode of Democracy on Fire, Kay Brown speaks with Bill Ballas, a former marketing and healthcare executive and author of the forthcoming book The Architect.

Ballas challenges the widespread assumption that voters are rational actors who weigh policies and facts. Drawing on political psychology, neuroscience, evolutionary biology, and real-world observation, he explains how genetics, epigenetics, tribal instincts, cognitive biases, and motivated reasoning shape political behavior far more than conscious deliberation. The conversation digs into why so many Americans simply check out of voting, the psychological tricks demagogues use to breed cynicism and distrust, and what other countries — especially Finland — have done differently. From early media literacy taught in pre-kindergarten through the rest of schooling, Finland offers a striking contrast. Ballas walks through some of the practical approaches these democracies have used to resist authoritarian drift and rebuild trust in institutions. He also talks about neuroplasticity, and why creating real spaces for dialogue across divides matters. The conversation offers both diagnosis and measured hope for revitalizing democratic participation.

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Consumers don't think how they feel. They don't say what they think and they don't do what they say. And I knew that. And I always thought that politics was different.

And it took me 30 years to realize that. His statement also applies to the American voter, and the question was why?

Welcome to Democracy on Fire. Today we'll be exploring voting behavior, why we vote the way we do or don't vote at all, and how understanding this could help save our democracy.

My guest is Bill Ballas.

He's a former marketing and healthcare executive who spent years exploring the psychological mechanics of consumer decision making, group dynamics, and emotional salience. He has a BA in Political Science and an Ms. In Management and Leadership.

He's the author of a soon to be published book, the Architect, that sheds some interesting insights on these topics. Bill explains how our ancient tribal instincts have been hijacked by demagogues and modern technology and why facts no longer seem to matter.

Welcome, Bill. Thanks for joining me.

Thank you, Kay. I'm a big fan of your podcast and I appreciate you this conversation.

Thanks so much. So let's start with this. Why did you choose this particular topic and to write this book?

Okay, thank you. Great question. I think the topic chose me given my background. Poly sci major.

And I kind of was surprised that I didn't know as much as I thought I knew. Okay.

And the irony of that is, is that in with a background in advertising, I had heard the father of American advertising, David Ogilvy, who's actually a Brit, ironically, he mentioned this and I want to quote him. Exactly. He said, quote, consumers don't think how they feel. They don't say what they think and they don't do what they say. And I knew that.

And I always thought that politics was different. And it took me 30 years to realize that his statement also applies to the American voter. And the question was why?

So I took a series of political science classes at the University of Nebraska, Omaha.

They were online, as well as in the political psychology department at Arizona State University to try to get to the bottom of what why I was wrong, why everything I thought I knew about politics, I did not.

So what are you hoping to accomplish with this book?

Well, there are three goals for the book. One is to raise funds for the Riverside, California County Democratic Party, or rcdp.

They do excellent work in terms of recruiting and training candidates for office.

They also need funding to build the architecture to, you know, help people register to vote, eligible voters register to vote, and then to get out the vote. Okay, with not only Democrats, with other like minded individuals. So they put together coalitions.

The second goal is really to dismantle the, the myth of the purely rational voter, because that has created some real hardships for America, which I'll get to in a second. And I, I believe that ignorance is not a wise political strategy. And so that's why I tackled this subject.

And third, I wanted to share what dozens of other market based democracies throughout the world have done to stiff arm the rise of authoritarianism in their countries at the precise time that Donald Trump rose to political prominence in the United States.

And if I just say one thing is that I asked my professors, I said, please, you should write a book about this, you know, because they know stuff that we don't. And they said, oh, well, I don't write for a broad audience or I'm too busy, you know, with my teaching and doing, researching and publishing.

And when I do get involved with politics, I prefer to do it as a member of a task force or, you know, sitting on the school board, that type of thing. So I took it upon myself, why.

Do people vote the way they do?

You know, that's a great question. And it has to do with all sorts of factors unrelated to being rational. Okay, it, a lot has to do with genetics, but that's not the full answer. Right?

I'm a son of very strict Republicans. Okay, but there are strict Democrats in my family. It's just that my, my birth parents were Republicans. So genetics is not the entire answer.

But there's also epigenetics, which has to do with the environment. Either the quality of air you drink, quality of water you drink, or lived experiences such as poverty.

All of these, they don't change the underwriting for one's DNA. What they do is they can act like an on, off switch as to which genes are activated.

Then of course there's all of the inherent biases, cognitive and unconscious biases that we have and needed to evolve as a species. So there's evolutionary biology, there's sociology, group dynamics, you know, tribalism, as you mentioned, all of these factors play a role.

So you're basically saying people vote on some emotional or tribal basis and not because of an issue or a policy. Is that. Well, you know, that's too simple a way to put it.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, they do. There's what's called motivated reasoning.

So actually, people will say it rationally that, yes, I voted for so and so, or I voted for this policy on a ballot measure because it makes good sense to me, when actually their reasoning is hidden by the fact that they wanted to vote. That would align with their subconscious instinct to vote. So it's called motivated reasoning, and we do it a lot.

Right. We think that, oh, it's the economy, stupid. Well, not. It's not as simple as that.

Most people, the scholars have found, vote for what they want the economy to be. It's more of a hopeful gesture than it is voting on their individual economic situation, no matter what they say. Okay.

And diagnostic tools such as functional magnetic resonance imaging machines are able to track what parts of the brain activate when people are asked, why do you vote? And so this is pretty well established science at this point.

Why do people not vote? Why are so many people just not participating?

Boy, you know, that's. I think what we're. What we're seeing now is the Trump administration raising what are called voter costs.

Like, you know, one can people get off work okay, to go vote? And maybe they, for one reason or the other, don't have mail in ballots, which are going to get tougher to have. Right.

We take a look at some of the shenanigans that the Trump administration is trying to pull. Voter costs also entail, like, how do I get to the voting place? Is there one near my home? What are the hours? Do they coincide with my shift?

But there's also the bigger issue. This is where the neuropolitics comes in, so to speak speak, is that people are apathetic and cynical about voting.

And someone like Donald Trump, a demagogue, cast fears and aspersions on our voting system being rigged when they're not. And psychologically, you know, Trump projects, which is an unconscious defense mechanism to protect one from feeling bad about themselves.

Which led to January 6th, and all sorts of bad behaviors before and after January 6th. And so. And he continues to repeat that the election was stolen.

And the reason is, is because there's what's called the illusory truth effect, which is also an unconscious bias that shows that the more one hears a lie, the more it becomes the truth in their minds. And so he's got a. And he lies. And it's, it's suited him well so far. So,.

So how does this matter to our upcoming elections and people who are trying to encourage voting?

Is there some takeaway we need to be aware of about changing the normal way that this has been happening, or do you have advice for how to get people engaged and get them interested in voting?

Yeah, that's one of the reasons that, you know, all 100% of the proceeds of this book go to the Riverside County Democratic Party. They're doing great work.

And as I've studied these other democracies worldwide and about how they stiff armed people like Trump from running their governments, it turns out that there are six things they all shared in common. Finland being the exemplar. And what RCDP is doing in Riverside county is, meets three of the criteria of the six of what the other world's doing now.

That's because the Democratic Party in Riverside county has a mission. It's more narrow than the federal government in these other countries. But.

So what are the recommendations that you have, the six ideas for building a better democracy?

Yeah. So it's. One is protecting the rights of eligible voters to get to the ballot to exercise their franchise. That's first and foremost.

And we see just how challenging it is today, whether it's Louisiana versus Calais, the Supreme Court's decision to gut the Civil Rights Voting act, and also, you know, the mail not allowing, you know, all of these shenanigans, okay, Undermine in the minds of people, ah, the system's rigged. My vote's not going to matter anyhow. We hear a lot about affective and ideological polarization. There's two types of. You're so correct.

Now, in an election year, you know, affective polarization is at hand, but Americans are not as split effectively as they are thought to be. Mostly they're apathetic. Okay. And so thinking about and hearing about Trump shenanigans to suppress the vote is very bad.

And it will make it harder to get people who want change even to cast a ballot.

And what the Democratic Party of Riverside county does by recruiting and training candidates, they're doing the number two thing that other countries have done is that they've developed the process for cultivating and developing responsible leaders, okay? And by having responsible people in office, that builds the trust in our institutions.

And our most sacred institutions have been assaulted by this, you know, by this fascist. That's all I can say.

Then the other criteria are deliberative spaces, you know, promoting deliberate spaces where conservatives and liberals can get together under certain structured guidelines to converse and to feel one another out. And that's important, to change minds.

My view after this is that, you know, you can't change our politics until you change minds, and you can't change minds until you change brands. Our brains are ever changing due to neuroplasticity, which helped us survive as a species.

And these conversations can be held and they will change people's brains to change their minds and then change their politics. So that's the fourth thing. The fifth thing is fostering psychological and media competency and media literacy.

And you, as an independent broadcaster and independent news source, are helping fulfill this need. But we've seen the demise of 60 Minutes and trusted news sources. And so we need these independent voices such as yours more than ever.

Plus, we need to do something about all the garbage that's online.

You know, these social echo chambers, the algorithms that social media does, not only to keep us in our own little echo chambers, but to feed us more of those echo chambers and, you know, basically stiff arming us or people who get most of their news online from finding out the truth, or at least another version of events. Okay, so. And there's probably a great need for legislation or regulation for that.

And we need to demand the ethical design of digital platforms, for sure.

So you mentioned Finland.

Yeah.

As being an example of a country that has instituted some of these things. How did they do that? I mean, what really was the key to their success in overcoming some of these things?

And so they put a big body condom over their country and basically said this is what we need to do to protect ourselves from foreign influence into our politics.

And so, for instance, I think the most wonderful thing they did is they starting in pre kindergarten, they start providing media literacy to their students. And it's not just a one off class. It's integrated in every class from pre K up to college.

So every instructor, every educator has a responsibility knows how to effectively teach, you know, this competency to all their students, whether it's a math class, an art class or whatever. So I really admire them for that. And they teach psychology.

I couldn't take psychology until I was a junior in high school, but they start teaching it as soon as kids enter the doors.

Yeah, that's certainly becoming more and more important in the Internet age. And so much misinformation and how challenging it is for people to discern the truth in the midst of all this.

But where and when can people find your book?

So I'm in the the stage of hyping a book because most of it's going to be sold on Amazon and Kindle. But the book will release late July.

And if any of your viewers or listeners wish to receive a free copy in exchange for providing a review, please have them contact me@billballis wsballas.com and they'll receive a complimentary copy in exchange for a review. Good, bad or ugly?

Okay, great.

Well, there are indeed lessons to be learned from history and from the successes that other democracies have had in resisting authoritarianism and building successful, sustainable, inclusive societies.

So I want to thank my guest, Bill Ballis, for helping us understand where we are, what we're up against and how, helping us think forward about where we need to go and how we're going to get there. Democracy is on fire, but we the people, do ultimately have the power to change course.

So let's get get going, get organized, and for starters, work on getting out the boat. That's just the beginning of the good things we can make happen. But we gotta we have to do that first step successfully.

So thanks for listening, liking and sharing.