The Referral System That Generated Over $100,000 with Just TWO Hours of Work per Week with Nikki Trailer

Episode 124 • 8th October 2025 • The Visionary Files • Adriane Galea

Wouldn't it be nice if people just sent you business? That is actually exactly what today's case study is going to dive into because my guest, Nikki Trailor, built a referral system that has reliably brought in two to three quality leads every single month for the last two years. Over six figures in revenue and all of this with just two hours of work per week.

That is an absolutely insane return on time invested. So when we recorded this back in the spring, my audience was almost all coaches and service providers, and now it's really a wide range of different types of business owners. So I wanna give you some context in case you're like, well, all right, Nikki's a copywriter.

So this really is not necessarily applicable to me because it absolutely can be applicable to you. So everything that Nikki is talking about is really about building and growing symbiotic relationships that can be leveraged for partnerships that can in turn, turn into revenue. It's really as simple as that.

So if you're a service provider or an agency owner, this would be really easy replicable for you, and I think it would be pretty transferable for someone who's like a coach or a consultant as well. But if you are maybe like a. Product seller, you could think more along the lines of product line collaborations, um, or maybe other retailers that you could do like a product box with or team up to release some type of co-designed line of items.

Like really what you're thinking about that it all comes back to is where can you find partnerships? That are mutually beneficial because they create growth on both ends. If that is of interest to you, I think you are going to love Nikki's case study. I was like genuinely shocked by the end at how simple her system really is.

And honestly, like if you want to go and grab a notebook and a pen to take notes, 10 outta 10, recommend. And on that note, let's get to it.

Welcome, welcome, Nikki. I'm so excited to chat with you about something that I think a lot of people are going to resonate with, particularly people like me who do not enjoy spending time sitting on social media to try and get. More sales because you have developed a really wonderful system to bring clients, a significant amount of clients into your business over the last couple of years through developing, um, what I think is going to be a more structured referral program.

Mm-hmm.

And yeah, I'm really excited to chat about this. To get started, do you want to let us know a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Yeah, sure. I'm really excited to dive in. So thanks to anyone who's tuned into this. I can't wait to share it with you. Um, so I'm Nikki Tray. I am a copywriter and funnel strategist, and I work with. Coaches and course creators who wanna make more money from their offers, but they don't wanna add more stuff to their calendar.

So I'm all about simplifying everything and optimizing what you already have and the things you're already doing so you can get better results from that.

Amazing. so I love to kick things off. a, with a, with a question that everyone is going to get, which is, what does it mean to you to show up as the bi, the visionary in your business?

Ooh, it's such a good question. So I think for me, being a visionary is really all about like forward thinking. I think so much of that comes from like putting your blinkers on and really focusing on like what you bring to the table, what you are good at, like what changes you wanna see in the industry, and making the changes, or not being afraid to vocalize them.

I think that's so important and it's too easy to not do those things as well.

Oh, I love the answer to that.

Thanks.

like what does, what does a visionary mean to like each, each individual person, I'm getting such different answers. I love, I love that. Like yours is more value-based of like being able to stay true to yourself. Is that the way that I'm hearing

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause I think it's one of those, um, it's so hard to do, but I think it's such a good skill to have is, um, yeah, really going with your gut and your listening to your intuition and like yeah, noticing those things you wanna

Yeah, amazing. So let's get into the case study itself. So am I set, like do you have, would you say you have a structured referral program? Like how would

Yeah.

you set this, this topic up? I.

Yeah. So, okay. I mean, if I start by talking about the results I've got from this and then maybe dive into how I've turned it into a system, it's quite like, it's gonna be quite a long story. So I feel like we should break it down a bit. Um, so essentially. I started getting referrals in my business a little while ago, and it was one of those things that never started intentionally, but I realized how much I enjoyed getting referrals, how much easier business felt when I got referrals, and so I really did then at that point, strive to make it a system.

I. Because my brain sometimes can be a little all over the place. Like I've got quite a creative brain, it goes off on tangents and unless I systematize something, it ain't gonna happen. So I have to be really intentional about that. And so, um, yes, I do have it very much as a system, as a process. Like I know what tasks I do every week.

Um, and the system has brought in so far, I think $126,000 in revenue in less than two years. And. I only spend about two hours a week on it. So it's pretty, pretty robust, pretty high ROI and um, yeah, it's worked very well for me so far.

That's an incredible result. How much time, time, money, energy, effort in the beginning do you think you put in to. Get yourself to the point where you are now, where you're only having to spend two hours a week.

Not a lot. So like there's not a lot of initial setup stuff. I think some of it was a bit of trial and error. So I think, you know, when you first start doing anything in your business, there's always that element of you have to figure out what works. You have to look at the data and figure out what actions are actually driving the results.

And so when I started looking into that stuff, I was able to like scrap the stuff that wasn't really working. Um. But it didn't take too long, I think, um, when I started realizing, so like I have Dodo as a CRM in my business, so that's what I used to like, get leads on my website, invoice clients, that kind of thing.

And, um, I started to track where each lead was coming from in there and I noticed that. I think it was about 75% of my leads were coming from referrals. Um, and you know, at that time I noticed this, I was quite new in business. Like I hadn't really, I'd been posting on social media, but not a lot. Um, and I had been trying to do everything, like literally everything, and 75% of my, um, business was coming from referrals.

And I, I wasn't doing anything intentionally to do that. It was just, I was. Going to events online, I was showing up in chats. I was just trying to be helpful where I could be, and I thought, well, if this is what's causing all these leads to actually come through from my website, this is something I need to look at.

Like I need to stop unpicking what it is that I'm doing and what it is that's working. So that's what I set about doing. I.

Yeah. Okay. So I, we have like four, four primary things. We're gonna run through, but before we get into like what those things are, I, I, I just want to get, like, this is so interesting to me because it's not like I'm such an ads person Like, and I, I don't encourage anyone to run ads, but like for me, that's so easy

Yeah.

just let me turn an ad on.

This is what I know works for me. So I love this concept of, bringing in clients through a system that is kind of hands off but is actually very relationship based. like is this your primary lead generation tool or tactic or strategy? And, and I love asking like 10 questions all, all in one shot. Break it down to make it simpler. Like where else are you also generating? How much of your business is coming from this,

Yeah. So at the moment it, yeah, it is the majority of my business. So like it is my pri primary lead gen for services, and then I have like some courses and products and things that I sell. And that would be mostly email marketing. Um, so. In terms of services, I would say still 75% of my service bookings come from referrals.

And then 25% of them are from various other sources. And then when it comes to like my business as a whole, it's probably more like 50 to 60% comes from their system. So it's really robust.

That's so interesting. Okay, so to get into the first, the first point of this, if, how, how did this come to be when, when you transitioned from like, okay, I see that this is starting, this is, this is the road that I want to go down. This is something that I wanna do where do you find, where do you find these people?

How do you, how do you approach them? How they come to you? How do you, because like not everyone is going to be a proper referral partner.

Yeah.

Um, do you let anyone refer you? Refer you? Like, how do

Uh.

how do you start to initiate these relationships or conversations?

Yeah, so, so much of it is okay. I say I don't really use social media for my business, but that's a light. I do a lot of like stalking on social media, which sounds creepy, but, but what I mean by that is like I'll spend a lot of time scrolling and naturally as I'm scrolling, I'll be noticing people who are posting interesting content or looking out for like creative ways of doing things in business.

And if I see someone when I'm scrolling who looks interesting to me or has. Clearly quite a similar audience or a similar business model. I'll start diving a bit deeper into their profile, and most of the time I, you know, as I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking about following other people and getting, you know, just following them for the sake of like consuming their content.

But then if I see an opportunity where we could potentially collaborate on something or where like I could be useful to them or vice versa, that's when I'll start thinking, okay, maybe. We can take it a step further and just like build the relationship a bit. Um, but I wanna say that I approach every conversation that I have with people with not with any expectation.

Like I think so much of the success of this comes from going in with the attention of either being useful to someone else or just about building that relationship. It's not about, oh, how can I get money out of this person? How can I get them to send business my way? I'm generally looking out for ways where we can be partners in something or.

We can be, you know, I can maybe provide value to them. Um, and so normally I'll just typically start either DMing someone or, you know, drop them an email if I see them. Depends on where I see them online. Um, and take it from that. So some places where I found really good people apart from social media is like paid communities.

That can be another place where, somewhere where you're showing up naturally, organically anyway for your business, um, and you having to notice interesting people. I think that's the easiest way to. Build it into your system is do it somewhere, focus on somewhere that you are already showing up and doing the thing.

Interesting. When you say like finding people on social media, like I'm almost hearing you say that it's almost like a cold outreach system, but not for trying to pitch them product, but to pitch them like a referral relationship.

Yeah, kind of. But I. I, yeah. And when you say it like that, it almost like makes me think of those horrible cold dms that you get off people who are like, yeah. And I was like, it's definitely not like that. And you know, it's funny, like I've had people say to me, I never normally get on calls with people who just start a chat with me on social media, but your message just felt really genuine.

And so I think like the way I go about, it's generally I'll build a bit of a relationship first. You know, we'll start talking about. Their dog or something else that they're posting about. Really normal. And I like to connect with people on a human level because I think when you're talking about anything business related, it always just feels like you're coming in for the ask.

And I don't want it to be about that at all. Um, my pro, my priority is literally just sussing out if we have a good vibe, and then thinking about whether I wanna take the next step and invite them to a call with me or just see how the conversation flows in the dms if we do start talking about business.

Um, and then. That's when I'll maybe invite 'em to a call if it feels good. Um, but yeah, I always think getting on a call with someone is the best way to like build a relationship really quickly and easily. You can see like whether you're a good energy match, whether you're a good five match, whether you actually feel like you want to potentially refer business to them because it's not like all about you getting business, it's actually about whether that person is a good.

Partnership for you. Like it's whether you'd be happy to send your clients to that other person. 'cause I think there has to be that match in like quality and value in, um, in pricing as well. There's so many things to look at,

Oh man. I have like 10 questions off of this, so No, no, no. It's, it's. Because it really does sound like, I'm not one who does cold

Mm-hmm.

but I have, like, one of my clients does. It's, it's almost the, the majority of the structure of her program is, is about teaching cold outreach. So I've learned a lot about it.

I have other clients who, they don't teach it, but they use it their business and it's so like the, what you're saying is very similar to that. And I'm wondering do you have, like what's your approach? First of all, I'm wondering what platforms you're

Mm-hmm.

because it almost feels like LinkedIn. I feel like that's almost more of the vibe.

So I'm wondering, are you doing it on LinkedIn? Is it happening on Instagram? Like where are you, platforms are you using? And like, how do you just initially start the conversation so that someone doesn't go, oh, she's trying to pitch me something.

Yeah.

gonna turn into like, do you wanna get on a call so that we could be a referral partner?

Wink, wink. But actually you're gonna try to pitch me your copywriting services. no, I don't wanna get on a call with you.

Yeah.

again, I'm asking you 10 questions at once, but where's it happening and how do you, how do you approach it from a more like, I am just a human wanting to get to know another human.

Yeah, really good questions. And I think it's the, a really important part of the process 'cause it can so easily go into like icky territory. Um, so actually it's funny you say it sounds more like a LinkedIn thing 'cause I actually mostly connect with people on Instagram. Like I use LinkedIn but not really a lot.

Um, and so when it comes to Instagram, a lot of the time. I'll just be like replying to people's stories. And when I'm doing that, I'm not thinking about like, I'm not even thinking about this system. I'm not thinking about getting referrals. I'm literally just replying to stories I'm interested in. If I then happen to notice that that person is someone who.

Like, for example, I'm a copywriter or like funnel strategist. So a lot of people that my clients might need help from maybe are like Kajabi experts or like, you know, they specialize in a specific software or they, you know, literally support the same person time for person as me. And so if I wanna transition the conversation from just like chatting about dogs.

To business. I will literally like have gone on their profile and be like, oh, hey, I noticed that you do this. Um, sometimes my clients are also looking for people who specialize in this. It's always good to know other people. Um. Do you work with like X, Y, Z type of person? And then like if I notice the conversation still feels natural, if they seem like they're interested in having that conversation, then I'll take it a step further and invite 'em to a call.

But I always kind of test the water with one message, and I try and keep it friendly and I try and keep the focus on how I can help them, because I don't want it to be like, Hey, get on a call and maybe you can send me some business. It's more like, oh, I feel like you could help. My clients like, here's a way, like I always do need people to refer to my clients.

So I started from that place and I think it feels a bit less gross.

Yeah, so what I'm hearing you say, which is interesting because the person I know who teaches cold outreach is like starting the stories, watch their stories, start like a human reply about their dog, or you know, oh, your kid's so cute, or whatever.

Yeah.

so many. not, I'm, I'm not trying to like drive a point home of like, it's just like cold outreach.

a form of cold

yeah.

to connect it to, oh, that's, this is an extra, and I'm not saying that at all, but it's so interesting how there are parallels to it. But what I'm hearing you say is you're finding people that you have a complimentary but non-competitive audience with like, you're not reaching out to other copywriters of, know, where a web designer might say like, oh, I do WordPress, you do Squarespace.

If I have someone who's looking for a Squarespace website, I can refer them to

Mm-hmm.

Um, but someone who has a complimentary but non-competitive audience and then always leading with how to help the other person which I think that's that like, if, if there were such thing as like the art of how to get anything you want, it's.

Yeah.

Give them what they want first, like how to, how do you help someone else? Am I hearing that

Yeah, definitely. Um, although I will say I actually, one of my best referrals did come from another copywriter, so I don't rule out people who you would consider a competitor because actually. Sometimes you don't know what's happening in people's lives. So that copywriter, for example, decided to take a sabbatical from client work, and I happened to be top of mind because we'd built a good relationship and she knew I did exactly what she did.

So she passed on a client to me who it turned into about 60 grand's worth of business over time. And I say that because, you know, normally you would think, okay, yeah, I don't wanna be competing for this work, but you're not necessarily always competing. I think it's a really easy misconception to make that someone who does what you do.

Just wants to keep all that work for themselves. Sometimes they might wanna rest, they might have too much work. They might just want another really good person, a really someone reliable that they can send that work to if they don't wanna take it on. And so I think it is worth also building relationships with your comp competitors.

Interesting. Would you naturally, like if you were, if you were scrolling through Instagram or whatever and you came across. I guess let's not frame this through just a copywriter, but like, what are, do you have, whether they're like set criteria, like as you're scrolling, what are the things that you would go, oh, I think that might be a good per good person?

I know you already said, um, like I think that this is some, someone who might be able to help my own clients, which I think that's really

Mm-hmm.

just leading with like, I know that this is a type of person that my clients could be helped by. Like what are sort of the criteria that you're looking for.

Yeah, that's a good question. So the first thing is like, whether it's a complimentary service or not. The next thing I will also look for is like, I'll try and figure out whether any of their values come through in their content. Like if I can understand like how they like to work with people, like how they show up.

Like do they care about their systems? Do they care about, um. Building strong relationships with people. Like all the things that I think are really important when I work with clients, I wanna see if I can suss out whether they have those same values first. Um, because I actually hired a subcontractor once who was just a really terrible communicator.

Like they were late on delivering stuff and didn't tell me upfront and things like this. And for me, that is like an absolute no go. Like I won't send anyone who can't communicate or like, you know, I get that things happen. If there's gonna be delays, that's okay, but if you don't communicate that, then.

It's just, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. So for me, that's a really important thing. So I will always be with every interaction with a person kind of looking, does that stuff align? Um, and then I also will typically, before I ever have a full phone conversation with someone, I'll always check as well on their website, like, does that pricing align?

Does our service like overlap in any way so that I'm not wasting anyone's time? Because the last thing you want is to either seem like too much competition or you know. Your client is used to paying a certain amount and then actually that person charges like three times what you charge and it's gonna, it is just a mismatch.

So I'm all the time analyzing that stuff as well.

Okay. things that I wanna ask off of that with, with regard to pricing. Do you have like. A window of if their pricing is, know, within X percent to X percent or this, like, is there some type of structure for their, similar to my pricing, because you're right, like if you're charging, you know, oh, I, I'm gonna use the website example again.

Like you're charging $500 for a website, but you're charging $5,000 for a copywriting

Mm-hmm.

Like make it make sense.

Yeah.

big pricing disparity. Do you have, is it just sort of like a gut thing or do you. Look at more specifically what that pricing match might be.

Yeah. I should, maybe I should have a percentage range. I just kind of go off gut. I'm like, oh, that feels about a similar amount for a similar kind of level of work or a similar value. Then I kind of just go along with it. Um, sometimes you can't just tally them by looking at the offer on the website. Like sometimes after I have a conversation with someone, I get a vibe of like what quality of work they're gonna deliver.

Um, and that makes it a bit easier to figure out. But yeah, I think generally if it's in like, you know, if I'm charging. Four figures for a sales page and a designer is charging four figures for a sales page, then I can probably see that we are gonna be, our client's gonna expect to pay that kind of amount.

Um, but for example, if, if it was like three figures versus four figures, or five figures versus four figures, probably I would question whether it would make sense. Um, but I didn't have a set way of doing it. Maybe I should.

No, I feel like a lot of these, the questions that just popped up for me are like so much more probably intuitive than anything else. I think that's, I mean, that's a good point to look at, like the pricing should make sense, which also just led, led me to, do you ever do like packages with these people?

Like if I'm referring you, do you create like. I saw, I saw someone who's a copywriter who has on her webpage, like a collaboration package that someone can purchase. It's me and this other person, and you can get us both together and it's a specialized price because I feel like, I don't know how I want to exactly say this because I was also speaking to someone who was looking at white labeling

Yeah.

and she was like, my pricing is already so high that for them to white label me, it almost doesn't make sense because they need to make something.

Yeah.

As well. Like they're not gonna just charge, I'm gonna just throw a generic number out. If it's 5,000, like they're, they're only gonna be able to charge 5,000. They're not gonna make anything on

Yeah,

Is it? Do, do you know where I'm sort of going

yeah. Yeah.

12 different thoughts in my head all at the same time, around more of the partnership side of things.

Yeah, I do. Yeah. So actually it's not, it's not something that has, um, paid off for me in terms of this specific case study, but I have done it for people. So I had a coffee chat with someone and. Maybe some point last year actually. And I, on that chat it seemed like quite clear that like, you know, her clients were my, there was so much crossover in our clients, but um, there was also a little crossover in our services.

So I asked her what would be helpful and we did like customize some kind of package that's like, okay, what's your. What service do you get the most inquiries for? And what do your clients then struggle with in terms of say, copywriting or the funnel strategy piece? Um, and she literally was able to talk me through exactly what she would need.

And I was like, okay, well I don't have a package that encompasses this, but how about I make one for you? And so I did just pulled something together. So that if she gets clients who need that, she has that information ready to hand and can just like send it over to her clients. Um, it wasn't necessarily like a white labeling or like a partnership thing, but it was just so that she had a specific package to refer them to.

Um, actually that hasn't paid off yet. I'll be completely honest. But, you know, this is a more of a numbers game and a relationships game and it's not always gonna work.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then I wanna go back to, and then we're gonna move on to the next. I can ask so many questions off, like, this was just our first point that we wanted to make, um, where you said like you had that one relationship that they, they weren't meeting deadlines, it just didn't go the way that you would, you would want it to go.

Like for your clients or for whatever. In hindsight, could you identify like any red flags or now that, mm. Uh, when you go into other relationships, are you looking for anything? Might, I mean, sometimes you just don't know until, you know, like sometimes everything looks rosy and great on the outside, and then you get into it and it's like, well, this person's very different than what sort of thought it was gonna be.

But where, are there any signs that you look for, like, this person is going to what I'm looking for and the

Yeah.

I want my clients to experience and, and in, and.

Yeah, I don't think you can ever a hundred percent tell, I mean, obviously I do my best to vet for that stuff, but again, like there's some stuff that's always gonna slip through the cracks. Like for example, like that client, I mean, she had a really, um. Really like beautiful, beautifully designed website.

Like everything looked great in her marketing. Like on the surface everything was put together and like really professional. And so I just got a really good vibe because she'd spent a lot of time and care on that stuff. And um, she had really good testimonials and stuff as well. So like that's something I would look at.

I would look at testimonials and see kind of whether any of them mentioned like the service side of things, like whether they talk about how great they were to work with. Um, because I think that is a really good telltale sign. If it's just all about like results or speed or something, I mean, like, yeah, there might be something missing.

Um, but I still will give people the chance. You know, you can't always get those testimonials from people. Um, but then like for example, if I get people, if I book a coffee chat with someone and they don't turn up on time and they don't let me know they're gonna be late, that for me is a sign that they would maybe treat their clients like that.

So I'm kind of like, you know. I'm almost treating like the coffee chat, which is gonna sound really scary, like a job interview, but it's not, it's not that scary and I don't put that much pressure on it. Like it is really chill, but like I am noticing things.

No, that's good. I mean, at some point you like you have to, especially when you are, if you are thinking about referring them.

Yeah.

I think I asked that question because it's my biggest

Mm-hmm.

I am so. What's the word I'm looking for? Stingy with. I even, this is, this is, this is how, this is how distrusting I am of like, I don't want to refer someone is my we.

I was just having a conversation with my sister about this. My sister's first job, I worked at Chili's for many, many,

Uh huh.

and she was like, I want to work at Chili's also. I'm gonna be a hostess. She was like 15 and I was like, all right, like you can put my name on your application, but. You had better never be late to work.

You better be, you better be properly in your uniform. Like I'm the head of the training team and then I wound up taking over all of the training for the entire state. So I was like, you have a big name to live up to. Little, little girl. like even I drove her to her interview and I was like, oh, she turned up and like. She had dress pants on, but it was this sort of like dirty Cindy, and I was like, no, you're taking a shirt outta my closet. You're like, it's so, I'm like, if my name is going on this, if I'm going to make a

Yes.

you never get a recommendation from me. You can be fairly sure that it's gonna be decent one. my biggest fear of like, how do you

I know.

that this is gonna be a good experience all the way around?

I know, I just think like, unless you've actually worked with the person, I just don't think you're ever gonna 100% know. But like sometimes, you know, maybe you can speak to some of their clients if you're definitely worried about that stuff. Um, but yeah, like I think it's just a case of either trying them out for yourself or like working with them together on something and just, you know, giving them the benefit of the doubt for one project or something.

Um,

yeah,

have had to be a little ballsy.

on my attitude of being quite so.

I get it though.

So old. Yeah. Okay, let's, we're gonna be here for an hour and a half. So once you've got, once you, once you've got like a, a little pool of people. How do you, because out of sight, out of

Mm-hmm.

How do you actually stay? you, do you have a system for communicating with these people?

How do you remind them like, Hey, I'm still around. You can, I'm still available for copywriting services. Do you know anyone who needs me? Like, how do you, how do you continue your relationship with them once you've got them?

Yeah, so actually, yeah, this is probably one of the most important parts of the system, I would say, because it's very easy to, you know, build that one-off relationship with someone. But then like. They're gonna forget about you. Like how many people do you get, have conversations with online and just suddenly it's like, oh yeah.

Then you see them pop up months later and you're like, oh my gosh, I forgot I even spoke to that person. So like, I think the follow up is the most important part and yeah, I have systematized it. 'cause again, like there's no way I'm gonna remember. Um, so one thing that I do do it is like, when I organize coffee chats, like on my calendar link that I send to people, I have two questions.

Um, one is. Like what would make a good referral for you? Tell me a little bit about your business. And that goes straight into an Airtable base with their name and their email address. And then I also have a little tick box that asks them if they would like me to add them to my newsletter.

Um, and then I have like, I will tag people who I think are good referral partners in my email software. So I have like a list of them that I can follow up with, um, specifically when I have like updates in my business or things. So I do keep in touch via like a newsletter, which is just for people I think are good potential referral partners.

Um, and then that way it can be kind of automated. I do also do some manual follow up as well because I have the air table base and you know, I have time blocked out to go through that and to just remember to check in with people.

Interest. So you're, when you said I have like a box they can tick for, do you wanna be on my newsletter? That's not like your client newsletter. It's like a referral partner newsletter.

Yeah, and it's not like it doesn't take a lot of work. Like I literally send an email like, well, I haven't sent one in a while. Just if there's either a big update, but typically it'll be quarterly, maybe sometimes even less, but just like. Here's things I'm working on my business. Like firstly, I'll obviously ask if I can help them with anything.

I also invite them for another coffee chat to see if there's anything we wanna catch up on, if they're doing anything exciting that they want support with. Um, and then I also, yeah, will update them on stuff that either I need help with or that I am trying to promote, um, whatever that might look like at the time.

And it's just a good way to reconnect with each other. Um, I'm also. On other people's like referral partner lists. And it's just great because you don't always think to check in with the person. And then you get this newsletter pop up and you see all this, all these updates and you're like, oh, that's so cool.

And then like I would love to promote that to my list, but also I can share this thing that I'm working on with them. Um, and it's just a great way of continuing that reciprocation as well.

Interesting. Do you, you said you do some like manual.

Yeah, like I will just, you know, like make sure I'm checking in on people's, like stories on Instagram or like checking in on their podcast to see if they've had any cool episodes out or something that I can, you know, comment on or like cheer them on for, or like if they've posted something cool on social, can I share it?

Like that kind of thing, just to see like, is there something nice I can do for this person or is there something that I can do? To remind them I exist depending on where I'm at and what I need and what they need.

Yeah. Is that something that's like structured and organized, or is it just sort

Nah.

know, you see them pop up in your stories, so you're just sort of like clicking through? Or

Yeah, I mean obviously I have the,

how does that work?

obviously I have the list of them, so like I, when I look at that list, I can kind of see who I've not interacted with in a while. Some of them, naturally, it's just like. Uh, they're just people I love to follow online, so naturally I would just interact with them more than others anyway.

Um, but yeah, like if I see someone that I'm like, oh, I haven't spoken to them in a while, maybe I'll just send them a quick message and see how they're doing. Or maybe I'll just go out of my way to just check in and see what they're up to and if the, if I can share a little something. So it's not, it's probably the least systematized part of this whole process.

Um, but yeah, still very useful.

Can, you mentioned earlier that you spend like two hours per week on this. How much of those two hours goes into like staying top of mind for people or to. Where, I guess where, whether that's for this part of the process or not, like where do those two hours go? What are you typically using those two hours for?

Yeah, so some of it, most of the time it'll be like looking for new people to have conversations with and time set aside for those conversations. So like, I don't know, maybe I'll have like one or two coffee chats a week. They are 20 to 30 minutes, so that's like, that's what I will allow like one hour of the time for is conversations and then the rest of it is like.

I'll, I'll try and be strict with myself on Instagram or like, if I'm scrolling, it doesn't always happen, but say about 20 minutes of like looking for people, 20 minutes of replying to messages and 20 minutes of like interacting with and following up with other people that I've had conversations with.

Um, and it doesn't even need to be that long. You know, my goal is generally just to connect with one or two people per week. And then it's just kind of builds momentum very slowly. Obviously if you were desperately needing a client or desperately needing something, you'd need to ramp it up a lot. But for the place I'm at now, it's, it's fine.

it's fine. Do you, um, have like structured fees? This is sort of off the beaten path of what we're

Hmm.

about, but do you have structured fees? Or like once they refer you X amount of people, you up their fee Or like, do you have a structured fee system?

Yeah, so well, I mean, at the moment I just give them 10% of the first project, and then if it's someone who becomes like a very good referral partner, then obviously I would consider like adding more or sending gifts or like doing something a bit nice for them and obviously. I'll share more of their stuff and things like that.

That's not intentional, but it just kind of happens naturally as you, like, build the relationship with the person. Um, but yeah, maybe that's something I could look at, you know, at the minute. So because I offer 10% of the first book projects, my minimum project fee is $3,000, so it's automatically at least $300, which I think is pretty good.

Um, and then sometimes it'll be more depending on what they book. Um, so yeah, like it's, I think works well, but. I'm always open to changing it and trialing new, new strategies as well.

no, that was sort of often left field, but I've. was on my mind earlier and I was like, hang on. If I don't ask it out, I'm not gonna remember it. So, okay. So you're spending a lot of the time finding people and then having chats

Mm-hmm.

and then minimum, minimal time of staying on their brain, staying around that like, Hey, I'm still here.

Can I do

Yeah.

Can you do anything for me? Sort of thing. How do you make it easy for the, if they're like, oh yes, actually this would be like, I would love to, to refer you out or to, oh yeah, I remember we had that chat a couple months ago. I actually do know someone that might be a good fit for your work or whatever. Like, do you provide them with resources?

Mm-hmm.

have a way, because that's, um. I mean, I think it sounds nice. If you were to come to me to be like, could you refer me? Great. Sure. long as you passed my test of will you? I'm just kidding.

Yeah.

sure. I would love to refer you, but then like in theory, how do you actually do it?

How do you help? How do you help someone help you?

Yeah, good. Good question. And again, another really important thing of it, because it's like you've gotta make it so easy for them to do it. And I think that is the most important part because it's like. Uh, people always start with a good intention. You know, like if you've got that relationship there, they're gonna wanna refer you, but you don't wanna make them think, you don't wanna make it hard for them to think, oh, what do I have to write to actually refer them?

So one thing that I do have is like, oh, anyone who agrees, like officially to be a referral partner, I will send them like a blurb that they can use to introduce me, um, so that they have that. And then I also make sure I include that. If I send my referral newsletter out, I'm just like, oh, hey, if you know anyone that would be a good fit for this.

And I pop it in there. So it's always there. Um, and then the other thing I think actually it's really, really helpful, um, is I like to think of, you know, when you introduce yourself to people and you have this like, I help statement and it's generally quite long and fluffy and doesn't always make sense. I, I think that's not necessarily the most helpful way to stay top of mind with people because they're like, uh, I can't remember it.

You spent ages crafting this perfect statement and blah. Like, I don't, I barely remember my own, let alone someone else's. So I always think you wanna have like one word that people associate you with, or like a couple of words. So for me, like for a very long time, I only specialized in. Specifically launches.

So launch strategy, launch copywriting, that was my thing. And so I would always make that super clear. Like that's all I would say. It's like I would always talk about launches and um, I think that association kind of got created. Um, and so I think just having that one word that you're known for, you know, you can't expect.

Referral partners than other business owners to remember everything about your business, every service you offer. But as long as they know, oh, like funnels or ads, I associate that with this person, then that's all you need. And if it's a, if it's not a perfect fit lead, that's okay, but like as long as there's getting into the habit of sending anyone where they think of that word and send it to you, I think that's the best way you can create that habit is just by keeping it super simple.

Um, so yeah, like I do give them an intro statement and stuff, but yeah, always make sure that word is top of mind as well.

Yeah, it's like I've done a, I've done a lot with affiliates. I don't have like a proper referral program, but I've done a lot with, with affiliates, and it's, even when them all the swipe copy, promo graphics, all the things, all the things they could have, it's still like. A mildly pulling teeth to get people to do things.

So that's, I

Yeah.

It's, it's just an important level set to have for yourself of like, you have to make it super easy for them.

Yes. Oh, and the other thing I wanted to say on this as well is like be really clear about what you want them to do. So like if it is an email introduction to someone. Be specific about that. It's like, you know when you're writing a call to action in your marketing, like people need to know exactly what that next step is that they need to take.

And so like if actually what's more useful for you is, oh, can you give me a shout out in a Facebook group? Like tell them which Facebook groups are helpful, where your ideal clients are, and like tell them what you want 'em to say. So it's not just about like giving them the words, but it's actually about directing them in the right direction so they know exactly what to do.

They don't have to think, they just copy, paste, do, and then that's it. Ticked off their list takes 30 seconds.

Yeah, face. Can you explain the Facebook group thing? I've never heard someone say like, can you like shout out in a Facebook group? What does that look like?

Yeah. So actually this is something that I, again, it happened by a happy accident in my business. Um, so I think a client that I had worked with, um, someone in a Facebook group was like. Asking for a copywriter. Um, and then she gave me a good recommendation in that. Um, and that led to, this was crazy, like overnight, I just woke up.

I had a, an inquiry for coaching, an inquiry for done for you copy, a sale of my course, a sale of my trip by products like so many new followers on social media. Um, and then I booked an $8,000 project from it. And. It was just overnight. Just from, from one, one shout out. I know. And so I was like, well, this is something I can incorporate into my system, because that was so lucrative and I had to do nothing.

So I now also will consider, like, you know, mixing up my call to action sometimes and be like, oh, hey, you know, like, I really need to book out projects, or I'm booking projects for this month. Um, if you see anyone in a Facebook group looking for X, Y, Z. I would love it if you could tag me in that post or something.

Just something as simple as that. And yeah, it's worked wonders,

Has that been some, I mean, that's so interesting to me. And was that something that you've seen has been like replicated? Was that just like a unicorn of a that had a ton of eyes on the, like

what? So questions on

honestly,

That's incredible.

yeah, I.

That's a case study in itself.

I have been trying to replicate this so hard and I've had success, but not to that same level. Um, but yeah, so what I think worked really well about that was that the group was literally, it was a group full, full, full of ideal clients. And now that group no longer allows like that level of promotion in there, or they didn't ask you.

They have like, they've got a job board somewhere else, so they don't allow people to do that. So I can't get it from the same group, so I'm never gonna get maybe that same level, but. What I have done is like, try to find, just try to like find other communities where everyone in there would be a, a traditional idol client.

Um, so I'm testing out some new ones, but yeah, that nothing's come quite close, unfortunately.

That's incredible

Mm-hmm. I know. It blew my mind. I woke up and I was like, what just happened? Because I wasn't in the group at the time. I had no idea that I'd been shouted out there. And then I woke up and I was like, where did all this come from? And my client had emailed me and she's like, oh, by the way, you might get an inquiry.

And I was like, what An inquiry. Like my inbox exploded.

happened. Wow, that's very

Yeah.

mean that's, I think that's the power of, know, in the day that we live in where I. Everyone knows if they have not been burnt, they know someone who has been burnt and they, if for some magical reason, do not have either of those two circumstances. They know that it

Yeah.

that everybody has been burnt at some point, somewhere somehow, like everything's a scam.

Everything's, it's a, I heard someone say, and I've been using this term now, I was like, we're in a trust

Yes.

It's huge to hear someone say like, I've worked with this person. It was a phenomenal experience. She did great work for me. Like just that alone is enough to get someone to go, okay, it.

Like that. I just need to know that if the, like there's vibe check,

Yeah,

check you out. You look like a cool person. You look like someone there and they know that they can actually get the result like done. I think that's, it's worth a lot more than of other marketing.

completely. And.

because, you know.

I just think as well, like if you put yourself in the shoes of someone who's paying, you know, four to five figures for a service and most service providers, they're asking for a 50% deposit or you know, a significant chunk of change upfront. And like so many people have done that with someone who hasn't delivered on what they said they're going to.

And I completely understand. I empathize totally. Like no one wants to be in that position. And so I honestly believe like. Thinking about that as you market yourself and thinking about that as you build this system is gonna put you in like a really good stead because you are thinking about your clients in the best way and like who you can refer to them.

And then also you're showing up in the way that. Builds trust with people because like if you show up to a coffee chat on time, if you show up and if you say you are gonna do something and say you're gonna refer someone, you do that thing, then you are already building that trust with that person. Like even if you don't work with them, they can have some confidence that, okay, this is a person who does what they says they're going to do, and I feel more confident putting my client's trust in them too.

Yeah. it's super important. so you, you found them. Now you've got a system or a semi system for like keeping up with is what I've got going on. How can I help you?

So that we're sort of staying top of mind and then giving them, giving them resources to help them help you essentially. And then the last one I have is follow up and I don't remember where, where are we going with this last one? Following up with the people they refer you following up with. With them outside of what was the fourth step?

I think it was following up with the people that refer you. So we actually kind of touched on this a lot already actually. Um, yeah,

was like, I think we sort of

yeah.

there is a fourth thing on my list to talk about.

No, I think we already, I, I'm trying to think if I have anything else to say on that, but I think, um. No, I mean the, I, yeah, I kind of said it all already, just like automating as much as possible.

So having that email system in place is, it's a godsend. Um, but yeah, like just remembering to add that personal touch as well. So following up one-to-one with everyone and just seeing how you can help them. I think, um, showing up from a place of helping the other person is always my mantra and I think why this has been so successful.

Yeah. Okay. So if someone has listened to this and they're like. This is really interesting. I want to, I want to try and do this. Like what, what's step one for them? Like where should they, should they just go, start scrolling Instagram or whatever social media they prefer and just like, just start chatting with people.

Yeah, literally. And it doesn't even have to be social media. I think, you know, like a lot of people that actually. Feel a bit weird about sending people messages on social, which I totally understand 'cause we've all been on the receiving end of terrible messages. Um, but I would say like, you know, if you are in any communities or something as well, where do you show up frequently?

Like, is there any way you can get on coffee chats with people there, people you know, where you show up already. There might be warmer leads there, like people who already know you that you can start this conversation with. So it doesn't have to be this like. Cold outreach kind of thing, if that's not your thing.

Um, but think about where you know, people who work with your ideal client and start there.

Yeah. Do you, you know, do you have a system, like after you've worked with a client, do you invite them to become a referral partner?

Yeah. Yeah. I do.

Or does it on the client?

Yeah, I mean, it would depend on the client. You know, obviously first things first. If we've had a really good working relationship, then I, and I know that they're really happy with the results, then it's a no brainer. Um, and so many, again, other clients do come from that. Um, but I think, um, yeah, typically I would always invite them and I always, because I just think like, as you said.

More trust is gonna come from people who have worked with you in the first place, right? So they're gonna be able to confidently recommend me. They're way more likely to recommend me than someone who I've just had one coffee chat with. Or you know, like we've had this online asynchronous relationship with.

So yeah, of course.

Amazing. Do you like, is there anything we did not cover through this that you think we should think we should add or I. I know, like, I want to recap where you said way earlier, like what your results have been just in the last couple years, this has added more than six figures of revenue.

Like this is, this is your primary way of selling out the service-based portion of your business. So the one-on-one

Yeah. Yeah,

work? Yes.

yeah. Yeah.

It's pretty, yeah. It's an, that's an incredible, and it. It's not, when I, when I started this, I said like a very structured referral program and it's, not, that's not a dig either to be like, oh, it's not, it's not a structured referral program.

Like it's a, it seems super chill, like very

Yeah.

very there, it's organized. It's not just like, well, whatever, do whatever. But it's not, you know, like step one, step two, do this and then do that. And it's got like a very rigorous, like, here's what you should be doing. It's sort of like, go be a human being and.

Yeah, exactly.

in what they're doing. Um, yeah. Outside of that, like is there anything we didn't,

Gosh, I don't think so. I mean, I don't think there's too much more to say. I mean, as you said, it is pretty simple. I think the main thing is just like so much of this is about relationships and like your strengths, so I think like. Really tapping into your own strengths when it comes to relationship building.

Like for me, I know I'm much better one-on-one than I am showing up like big and loud on social media or in a community. But you know, if you have different strengths around that or like, I don't know, you show up in a different way to me, make it work for you. Like, this is how I work best. Like I'm good with those deep chats.

I'm good with one-on-one, but I'm not gonna necessarily have the same strengths as you. So I think you can take the core principles and run with it.

I love it. I love it. Okay, so if someone wants to come find, if someone's like, Nikki, I would love to hire you to be my copywriter. Or Hey, I think we might have some clients where we could be a great, uh, fit for being referral partners for each other. Where can people find you?

Yeah, sure. So, I mean, I'm. Uh, I'm not posting on social media a lot, but I am on social media a lot, just having conversations with people. So dms on Instagram is definitely the best place to find me. Um, and then I have also every masterclass, which people can go to if they're interested, if they have, um, a funnel or launch funnel that they wanna get more out of.

Um, I have a masterclass that gives them five steps so that they can double the revenue they're making from that as well.

Oh, we love, we love funnel strategy.

Oh, yeah.

Amazing. Oh, I talk funnel strategy all day. Amazing. This was fantastic to chat with you and thank you for being here and all the things.

you so much for having me. I've loved having this conversation with you, and I hope, hopefully it helps your audience too.

I hope so. I mean, it's such a, like, I can't stress this enough where I'm like, oh, this thing's, it's so chill. Like this is such a

Yeah. Yeah.

fruit for anyone, especially anyone who's doing Done for you services.

A hundred percent. A hundred percent.

Okay.

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