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Ask The Expert: Great Work with Amanda Crowell-Ep: 095
Episode 9529th May 2022 • She Coaches Coaches • Candy Motzek
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Join me as I speak with Amanda Crowell Ph.D. She is a cognitive psychologist, speaker, author, and coach, and she is focused on changing our perspective on the world of work. Her new book Great Work: Do What Matters Most Without Sacrificing Everything Else comes out on June 7th, 2022.

 

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Candy Motzek:

Hey welcome to sheet coaches coaches, I'm your

Candy Motzek:

host Kandi motsek. And I'm going to help you find the clarity,

Candy Motzek:

confidence and courage to become the coach that you were meant to

Candy Motzek:

be. If you're a new coach, or if you've always wanted to be a

Candy Motzek:

life coach, then this is the place for you. We're going to

Candy Motzek:

talk all about mindset and strategies and how to because

Candy Motzek:

step by step only works when you have the clarity, courage and

Candy Motzek:

confidence to take action. Let's get started. Hey, everyone, and

Candy Motzek:

welcome to this episode of she coaches coaches. I have an

Candy Motzek:

amazing guest for you today. Now, this was a woman that I met

Candy Motzek:

at PATA palooza. And if you've been following me for a while,

Candy Motzek:

you've probably heard some of these interviews. Let me

Candy Motzek:

introduce you to Dr. Amanda Crowl. She is a cognitive

Candy Motzek:

psychologist, speaker, author and coach. And she is focused on

Candy Motzek:

changing our perspective on the world of work. It is possible to

Candy Motzek:

do great work. Now those are capitalized, great work, launch

Candy Motzek:

a successful business, make a scientific discovery, raise a

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tight knit family and manage a globally remote team without

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sacrificing your health, happiness and relationships.

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Amanda is the author of the forthcoming book, great work do

Candy Motzek:

what matters most without sacrificing everything else. And

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the creator of the great work journals. Her TEDx talk has

Candy Motzek:

received more than a million views and has been featured on

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Ted's ideas blog and Ted shorts. Her ideas have also been

Candy Motzek:

featured on NPR, Al Jazeera, the Wall Street Journal courts and

Candy Motzek:

thrive, thrive global. That was a mouthful, Amanda? Hey. Oh, so

Candy Motzek:

glad to see you here. Welcome to she coaches, coaches.

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

Candy Motzek:

You tell me a little bit more about your book.

Candy Motzek:

This is fascinating.

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

Yeah. So great work is a book about

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

figuring out what you were here to do. And then taking steps to

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

get closer to that vision without ever feeling

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

overwhelmed. So the book has sort of three, three parts to

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

it. The first is what is my great work. And, you know, often

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

people don't quite know, you ask them, you know, who are you? Who

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

do you want to be in? The answer that comes back very often is

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

either that's an irrelevant question. I am who I said I was

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

going to be, I'm stuck. I've made all of my choices. And now

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

this is who I am. Or, I'm not sure I always felt there was

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

something bigger for me, but I don't know what that is. And

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

then every now and then you get people who are very clear about

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

what they want, but they have no clue at all, how to get closer

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

to it. So the first little bit of the book is about, you know,

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

looking at your life, evaluating what's happened in it, thinking

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

through what you've enjoyed, and figuring out the first one I

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

would call inkling of what your great work might be. The second

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

half of the book tells you how to get a little bit closer to it

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

following the great work method, which is what's also in the

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

great work journals, which is a very time management

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

productivity, step by step process that I've discovered

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

over the last decade is a way to actually do remarkable things

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

without feeling overwhelmed. That's why I felt like I needed

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

it because I was constantly striving on 17 fronts at the

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

same time and getting on what I like to call the roller coaster,

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

the productivity roller coaster of doom, which is like where

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

you're utterly overworking and then you like nosedive into

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

burnout and recover just just enough so that you can overwork

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

again and then burnout and overwork and burnout. And as

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

like I can't live like this. I mean, once you have kids, it

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

feels, you know just really adds another layer of things that you

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

feel like you're obligated to do well at. And then I had a couple

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

of full body rebellions at one point I had an autoimmune flare

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

up that really, really kind of brought it to the forefront like

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

either get this under control or, or your body is just not

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

going to allow you to go any further. So the great work

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

method is something that I learned how to do out of sheer

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

necessity, so that I could continue to do great work

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

without like sacrificing literally everything else. my

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

health, my happiness, my marriage, my children, all of

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

it. So the second half of the book is or the second little bit

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

of the book is about that. And then the last part is kind of

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

related to the TED talk that I did, which is about mindsets.

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

What are the things that keep us locked in what I call patterns

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

of defensive failure, which is where we fail by not doing

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

anything to avoid having to live through the the excruciating

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

experience of failing for real, and so mindsets, self expertise,

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

understanding who you are as a very specific person, what works

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

for you in terms of your productivity and time

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

management. So it's really, it's really a sort of step by step

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

pathway to doing what you were put here to do without having to

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

give everything else like speed everything else to it.

Candy Motzek:

Yeah, and I mean, ultimately, you can't do great

Candy Motzek:

work if there's none nothing of you left to do it with, right?

Candy Motzek:

Yeah. And if you have no resources or resilience, because

Candy Motzek:

you've been on that hamster wheel of productivity for so

Candy Motzek:

long, there's just nothing, you got nothing to give. And it's a

Candy Motzek:

very joyless existence. Like, you know, when I've seen people

Candy Motzek:

in that place, you say, you know, what do you want to do?

Candy Motzek:

Who do you want to be? Who are you? They're like, zombies.

Candy Motzek:

Right, like, and I think that without some intention, and some

Candy Motzek:

personal reflection. There, that is an easy path for people to

Candy Motzek:

fall into, because they think they're doing all the right

Candy Motzek:

stuff, right. Like, you know, they graduate, they get into the

Candy Motzek:

right school, they take the right degree, they make the

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right connections, they make the, you know, the first post

Candy Motzek:

degree career move all those things that we're supposed to

Candy Motzek:

do. But if if it's not done with any, any of the underlying

Candy Motzek:

import that you're describing, you're just you're building your

Candy Motzek:

house, it's like a bunch of sticks that you're building on,

Candy Motzek:

on nothing, right? Yeah. Hmm. So interesting. Do those does you

Candy Motzek:

the way you described it? It sounds like the book and the

Candy Motzek:

journals actually go together that they mesh together very

Candy Motzek:

well? Yes. And what were you know, somebody was to read your

Candy Motzek:

book. I know, it's not quite out yet. But if someone was to read

Candy Motzek:

out, where would they start? Like, what's the one thing for

Candy Motzek:

them to start with to begin with?

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

Yeah, so it kind of depends on where that

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

person starts their own sort of life journey, some people really

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

do know where they're headed. And they're just overwhelmed all

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

the time, they get stuck in analysis, by paralysis by

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

analysis, where, you know, they're doing too many things,

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

and everything's just eking forward, nothing's getting any

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

traction for, for somebody in that position, where you kind of

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

know where you're going. The second little bit of the book is

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

a great place to start, which is to say, the question, at the

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

heart of the great work method is how can I get a little bit

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closer, I find that people overwhelm themselves, they think

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

I need to do 1/100, of becoming the world's best movie star this

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

week, if I want to be the world's best movie star in 100

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

weeks, but it really doesn't work like that, actually, it's a

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

you have to chip away at it and do what feels really kind of

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

what I would call aspirational in the sense that you have to

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

stretch forward a little but also attainable, and attainable

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

aspiration. And that grows over time, what feels like an utterly

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

overwhelming step today will feel very doable in a few weeks,

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

because you'll be further down the path. So I would start in

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

the great work journals, I would just start doing the weekly

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

pages, which asks you what three things can I do to get a little

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

closer this week? And then the daily pages? What can I do to

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

get a little closer to what I said I would do this week,

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

today. And I find that even just doing that even if you don't go

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

through the goal setting or read the book and learn all about

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

yourself expertise, and all of that can just transform your

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

experience of great work, because it feels like Oh, I see

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

how it's a part of my daily life. I don't have to wait. I

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

don't need to be given permission. I don't have to know

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

how to do it. I can just begin. And that, right, there is such a

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

massive shift that really sort of describes the difference

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

between the people who do great work, and the people who are

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

hoping to do great work.

Candy Motzek:

So there's a little thread here that I'm

Candy Motzek:

curious about. So it's this just began. So it's the having the

Candy Motzek:

vision, like your example of I want to be a movie star, just

Candy Motzek:

having the vision. I mean, that's probably not necessarily

Candy Motzek:

most people's vision. I

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

was saying I want to get a I want to build a

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

career in corporate social responsibility. Sure.

Candy Motzek:

Okay. So that's the vision. So being knowing

Candy Motzek:

that that's where you want to go, at least the qualities of

Candy Motzek:

it. And then just starting Is that what you're saying? I just

Candy Motzek:

sort of want to be really clear there.

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

So I don't eat for a while at the very

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

beginning. I like to say that you have to get in the river.

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

First you have to get in your boat and get in the river so you

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

can be carried that you have a chance of being carried

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

downstream, right in the great stream of great work. And for a

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

while. It really kind of feels like when you're doing something

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

completely new. Like you're just paddling your boat around in

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

circles, you're not really getting anywhere. That's okay.

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

That's what it's meant to be, you have to figure out, you

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

know, in the example of corporate or social

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

responsibility, you might just be having conversations with

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

people looking at job descriptions, reading books,

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

talking to anybody who will talk to you, and it doesn't

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

necessarily feel like you're getting anywhere, but what

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

you're doing is you're sort of establishing the space that

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

you're meant to be in. And then eventually, it gets to the point

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

where you understand the space a little bit, and you can be a bit

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

more directional, a bit more intentional. And then it's a

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

question of, if you look, you know, at the long term goal of

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

getting a new job, then it's a question of like, where's your

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

old job? And what's the space in between? And how can you just

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

start this week, maybe you decide, you're going to get an

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

interview with somebody you met at a networking event three

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

months ago. So this week, all you're really going to do is

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

find that person's email address and send them an email asking

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

them to have like a zoom coffee with you. And that can be enough

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

for a whole week to get a little closer to great work. So

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

eventually, you start to become more intentional. And then when

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

the moment arrives, that what the next thing you have to do is

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

actually start applying for jobs. And that has a whole set

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

of things that can be done over the course of a week or the

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

course of the day. The key always being that as long as

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

you're taking, as long as you're taking it seriously, and taking

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

at least a step, every day, every week, you won't get

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

nowhere, you'll get somewhere, you'll probably get where you

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

want to go

Candy Motzek:

over the course of time, even if you find out that

Candy Motzek:

that particular role isn't exactly the match for you.

Candy Motzek:

Right, but just knowing that helps you as well. Now, the

Candy Motzek:

other thing that you haven't mentioned, but I'm curious about

Candy Motzek:

is when you do these three things, you know, you plan on

Candy Motzek:

doing three things, and then you do three things, for example,

Candy Motzek:

reminding yourself of your progress, you know, and like

Candy Motzek:

just sort of reinforcing that, hey, I'm doing a good job here.

Candy Motzek:

I'm making progress, like, you know, that celebrating even

Candy Motzek:

this, the tiniest steps and creating that, you know,

Candy Motzek:

creating that environment, it's not just that you're looking at

Candy Motzek:

the list, and yes, I did them, but that you feel good about

Candy Motzek:

doing them tooth, I chose this, and I did it yet, right?

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

Yeah, exactly. Right. And in the

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

journal, the great work journals, at the beginning of

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

every day, and the end of every day, there's a place to

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

celebrate exactly that. There's a little gratitude section at

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

the top that can help you remember, I don't really know

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

anybody these days, who's not dealing with a little bit of

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

depression, a little bit of anxiety, we all need a reminder

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

that everything is not terrible when we're having that moment.

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

And I feel like the gratitudes are really just very grounding

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

in that sense. And then at the end of every day, you say what

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

was my favorite memory today. And it could be a joke that your

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

son told you, it can be a moment when your husband brought you a

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

coffee, it could be the moment where you find out you get the

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

job, but it doesn't have to be. And then at the end of every

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

week, you collect your feet, three favorite memories of the

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

week, and that goes in the weekly page. And then you get

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

this log of your life. And I think my favorite part of the

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

journal though, is actually you've done the three things,

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

right? You get to be done. Because that's the other feeling

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

we never, ever have. I'm done. I did it, and I'm done. And if you

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

can build more done into your life, where now you have no

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

guilt, no regret, no resistance to the things you need to do to

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

build resilience in yourself to take that nap to watch TV to

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

make yourself an actual dinner. That is a habit of great work.

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

That is the kind of stuff that makes it possible to get out of

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

the grind. When you were describing the the feeling of

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

the zombies who like are just so exhausted and overworked. Yeah,

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

they, you know, they, they're sacrificing exactly their great

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

work to the grind. Like they've chosen this grind over the

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

remarkable transformation of doing what your was sent here to

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

do. And I think that's just really sad. I think our world

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

is, is struggling in part, because so many people have

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

sacrificed their joy, their resilience, their contribution

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

to the to do list. And I don't think that that's doing us any

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

favors.

Candy Motzek:

And I would I would even argue that they're

Candy Motzek:

sacrificing themselves. Yeah, right. I mean, the great work

Candy Motzek:

that you're you know, that you've been describing sounds

Candy Motzek:

amazing and completely doable. For people like this is not

Candy Motzek:

something that it's not something that's unattainable.

Candy Motzek:

Anybody could accomplish this. But they have to be on their own

Candy Motzek:

to do list. You know, they can't be sacrificing themselves on the

Candy Motzek:

altar of somebody else's dream. It has been so great speaking

Candy Motzek:

with you. For the listeners, anybody who wants to find out

Candy Motzek:

more about you, where should they go? Can you share with them

Candy Motzek:

a little bit?

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

Yes, you can go to Amantha crawl.com. And

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

we'll put that in the show notes, I'm sure. And there, you

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

can find out about the great work journals, which are

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

available on Amazon, and Barnes and Noble and all over all the

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

places, that can be a great place to start and then get on

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

the list. So you can hear about the book when it comes out on

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

June 7, which is very exciting. There'll be a lot of launch,

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

launch parties launch events that week to and all of those

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

would be great ways to find me. And I also have a podcast called

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

unleashing your great work, where we talk about all these

Dr. Amanda Crowell:

ideas. And yeah, that would be how to do it. Awesome.

Candy Motzek:

Thank you. Thank you for joining me. Okay,

Candy Motzek:

everyone. That's it for this week, and I will talk to you

Candy Motzek:

again next week. Thanks again for listening today. Please hop

Candy Motzek:

on over to Apple podcasts and leave a review. Also, I would

Candy Motzek:

love to hear from you. It's something that I say resonate.

Candy Motzek:

What else would you like to learn about? Click the link in

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the player and leave a comment on the post. This is going to

Candy Motzek:

give me great ideas for future episodes so I can help you best.

Candy Motzek:

Join me again next week. For more coaching, support and

Candy Motzek:

teaching to help you become the competent coach. You are meant