Meet Dotty Posto

Dotty started out as a business analyst and project manager. In these roles she repeatedly got 'Does Not Play Well with Others'. It wasn't until she was introduced to Change Management and Organizational Development work and received transformational coaching that her career and life shifted. Dotty has worked with iconic brands like The Chicago Tribune, KPMG Peat Marwick, Hewitt Associates, Harley Davidson, and Molson Coors. 

Dotty is a Leadership Consultant and Coach specializing in helping leaders and teams turn around the Curse of Cordial Hypocrisy where bullies have created a 'nice' organization and it's costing them money and opportunities and creating more risk. 

What is the curse of cordial hypocrisy?

So, the curse of cordial hypocrisy is when you have people being nice, being agreeing. They're either being silent or they're being agreeable and it's a lie. So maybe they're afraid of someone or maybe they've been shut down in the past.

Maybe there's someone who's just really dominating every conversation. And so they either stay silent or agree when they really don't agree. It creates a lot of problems in an organization because then you've got lower productivity in the background because people are behind the scenes.

I'm not doing that. I don't agree with that. So there's all of this conversation in the background that is in disagreement with whatever was going on. Then whatever project or whatever they're trying to move forward isn't going to move forward. They're not going to get the same traction. They're not going to have the same speed. They're not going to have the same results. If not, everyone is in alignment, and not everyone agrees and not everyone wants to move forward. And you'll also find where people are doing this out of loyalty because they've been here a really long time.

People aren't tapping into their own wisdom and the group is not leveraging the wisdom of everybody on their team.

Do you do you actually see a difference in various industries or sectors and receptivity to these ideas? And if you do, what are some of the tools that people can use if it's not as natural for them to bring these into into how they do their work?

I think there's validity to what you're saying in terms of manufacturing often being the old school or an old style of leadership. And when I say old style, some more of a command and control.

I think age is part of it. There was a gentleman in a manufacturing plant I did some work with. After the eight months that I worked with them, the CEO retired. So he was an older leader and he and his leadership team, some of which were older, some of who were in their kind of mid career, and it took some time. They did create openness, but with that top leader being open to it.

He has built some social capital with that team, and so I think that is a critical piece to have the trust. I was working with the HR manager who I had also worked with earlier in my career, and it took a bit for him to kind of crack open a little bit. But the more you've got senior leadership involved, this can make a difference. And it made a huge difference on his team. He had some very volatile leaders. He had some very defensive leaders. There's one activity that we did in the beginning that absolutely changed things. 

2023 Edelman Trust Barometer:Navigating a Polarized World

Building Trust: In Business, Politics, Relationships, and Life by Robert C. Solomon and Fernando Flores

And so much more… 

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ABFM 39

You want to learn more about your host? Make sure to listen to episode one.

[00:00:56] Kris Harrington: Yes, I have seen the pumpkin spice pop up a [00:01:00] little bit everywhere. Yeah. Funny on The Brew this morning, they, they said, I don't know if you get The Brew daily to your inbox, but they said to say the word crisp out loud.

[00:01:21] Kris Harrington: Right. That's a good word. So, great.

Dotty Posto. She started out as a business analyst and project manager and these roles she repeatedly got "does not play well with others." It wasn't until she was introduced to change management and organizational development work, and received transformational coaching that her career and life shifted.

Dotty, welcome to the show.

[00:02:19] Dotty Posto: It's great to be here. Thank you.

[00:02:46] Dotty Posto: So the curse of cordial hypocrisy is when you have people being nice, being agreeing, they're either being silent or they're being agreeable [00:03:00] and it's a lie. So maybe they're afraid of someone or maybe they've been shut down in the past.

Maybe there's someone who's just really dominating every conversation. And so they just either stay silent or they agree when they really don't agree. And the, and it just creates a lot of problems in an organization because then, you know, first of all, you've got lower productivity in the background because people are, you know, behind the scenes.

And, you know, they must know they've got all the, you know, when really it's. You know, people aren't tapping into their own wisdom and the group is not leveraging. The wisdom of everybody on their team. Yeah.

[00:04:35] Dotty Posto: No, it is, it is. And it's what, it's what you might hear people talk about with positive toxic positivity where people are being positive, they're being agreeable. And most people that, I mean. There's got to be at least someone on the team who realizes that this isn't really what's going on. It's like, oh wow, we all agree.

It's going to explode. It's going to pop up somewhere. And then it pops up in a [00:06:00] way that is really destructive, and it pops up in a way that is probably way more messy and volatile than what it would need to be for whatever situation it pops up in.

And I'm, I'm interested to know what should the leader do? I didn't know that it had a name, right? So I think it's really interesting that there's a name for this, but what can the leader do? To kind of stifle that or call it out and make, make it obvious so that the direction of, you know, the behaviors and the attitudes and it's changed so that you can move forward and get the better benefit.

So building trust, having the trust in the organization that, that each employee will have that honest, candid conversation with the leader. Is absolute foundational, absolute foundational, and there's different ways to do that. You can do that just by getting to know your people better asking, you know, questions about them as a person, the more they know you as a person, the more you're open and vulnerable and And honest with what you're thinking and you're feeling and what you're seeing in the group, the more honesty and candidness that you're going to encounter that you're going to get back from your team.

And maybe you. Ask that one person to play the devil's advocate about the situation, or even ask anyone else. See if you can take, find someone who's got, you know, a little bit of boldness, a little bit of assertiveness and ask them to play the devil's advocate, you know, and, and there's different ways.

And I think I just actually did an email on this or where you can have everybody put on a post it their idea.

And don't get in that group think, or you know, there's different pathologies that, that are, and I'm trying to think of what the other one was. I just saw a presentation on this of, of the group think can also get even have a little bit different flavor to it where, you know, one person says one thing and it's like, okay, let's just all go that way when really there could be 7, 10, 30 different ideas.

I'm sure there are some industries that are like, bring it. We want to hear this. We're very engaged on the newest way to handle. So, two part question. Do you do you actually see a difference in various industries or sectors and receptivity to these ideas. And if you do, what are some of the tools that people can use if it's not as natural for them to bring these into into how they do their work?[00:11:00]

I think it, you know, when there is, you know, I think age is part of it, but I've seen some older leaders, you know, there was a gentleman in a manufacturing plant. I did some work with a manufacturing plant where. When after the eight months that I worked with them, the CEO retired. So he was an older leader and he and his leadership team, some of which were older, some of who were older, some of who were, you know, in their kind of mid career and it took some time [00:12:00] and they, they did, it did create openness, but with that top leader being open to it.

And what you do is it's a four quadrant and everybody creates a personal crest and they create it with pictures more than words, like the fewer words as, as few words as possible. And part of the reason we use pictures. Is because it accesses a different part of our brain, it makes us really think differently than when we're just using words and, and you use flip chart paper and you have the first quadrant is your journey to where you are now, and you can, you know, you don't give them much instruction on it.

[00:14:30] Lori Highby: That sounds really cool.

[00:14:32] Erin Courtenay: I'd love to do that exercise. Oh!

[00:14:38] Dotty Posto: Yeah, it's a powerful, it's a powerful activity.

And I think that's a really nice, nice exercise. I love that. And, you know, what I'm hearing from you is there, there, it may be a more challenge in one sector or another. And, you know, we, Okay. Stereotyping various sectors is just natural, but I'm hearing from you, leadership is key and patience to go through.

It might take a little bit longer, but be patient and, and trust in the process. And so that it doesn't, you know, maybe it doesn't come natural to your leader, but if they're committed to the process, then it, it doesn't matter if they've, you know, done something like this before or not. So. That's a really cool idea.

I love it. Thank you.

Just like when we stop at a stop sign and everybody keeps waving. No, you go, you go, you go. We do this in Wisconsin all the time, but you go to New York, right? And they just jump in and they, you know, it's cultural by country.

I, you know, I, I love the play devil's advocate. I mean. You, you always have those people that do that all the time and you can also be annoyed by that, but you know, so I mean, sometimes, but I think the devil's advocate always does introduce a new level of thinking that, that then everybody has to respond to some, some great actions and advice there.

I really love it. Thank you.

[00:17:05] Kris Harrington: I just learned that there's a beautiful beach in California in San Diego called La Jolla Beach.

Has anybody been there? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

So I'm leaving for San Diego tomorrow morning. We have somebody here that came to the farm this morning to kind of get a little training on, you know, taking care of our animals while we're gone. And the Women in Manufacturing Summit is in San Diego this year.

So it's next week. But I'm spending a few extra days there. And they mentioned that La Jolla beach is absolutely beautiful. Sea lions and you know, other.

[00:17:45] Kris Harrington: Oh, so I'm really excited. It's my first time there.

[00:17:49] Erin Courtenay: Yeah. Oh, you know, and Folks that listen to us know that Kris is a veteran and you know, you should do some of the Navy like the tours and things like that there. It's [00:18:00] really, that influence on the culture of downtown San Diego is just really cool. It's just unique.

So interesting. Thank you.

[00:18:37] Kris Harrington: Oh, that's cool. Erin, what about you? What did you just learn?

[00:18:58] Kris Harrington: Did he send you pictures? [00:19:00]

Lori?

[00:19:55] Erin Courtenay: Oh, you love that.

And there's some interesting like perspectives of what business leaders should be doing to create a sense of community. And, but how to do it without being too politicized. Cause there's obviously this huge balance with, you know, what we're doing as a, as a business in our society. Addressing important issues, but not doing it with a political positioning.

[00:21:10] Kris Harrington: Yeah. You know, we can almost have a whole show just on that report.

[00:21:18] Kris Harrington: Yeah. I mean, Dotty talked about trust earlier, we've had other guests talk about trust and how important, you know, when they're giving advice, how building trust is such a key. So maybe that's a future conversation.

[00:21:38] Dotty Posto: Dotty, what about you? So I just want to mention before I say my thing is that there's a, the, the book where I learned about cordial hypocrisy is let me just see if I can grab it quick. It is called it's the, it's by oh, no, I'm going to remember. I'm not going to remember what it is.

And I forget the guy's first name, but Solomon. Okay. Anyway, it's a great book about trust, really a great book. Oh, so I I recently, so I'll go back in May, my daughter ran her first half marathon and she was supposed to run it with her boyfriend and his friend.

And she ended up running it alone because one got hurt and then the other one backed out. And I thought, you know, I, I've been kind of changing my diet and my health routines and I started running again and I thought, you know what, I wonder if I could run a half marathon, you know, I hadn't run a race in years and years and years and years and years.

It's got this cool pin, and if you do it for four years in a row, you get these four parts to the pin that create the state of Wisconsin. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, I should look at that. And I started looking at the training information I had, and I learned that I should have, like, stopped running for at least a week, like, four or five days after my half marathon to really let my body recover better.

[00:24:24] Lori Highby: Yeah. Wow. That's an important reminder. Yes, it is. We're not superhumans. Yeah. We're not superhuman. . . As much as we all think we are or wanna be.

[00:24:39] Lori Highby: I crash and burn hard. . I go, go, go. And so it's like, okay, time to do nothing for 48 hours.

All right. Well, that, that, that, yeah, that's really good. We had some fascinating shares today. So Dotty if anyone was interested in getting in contact with you, what's the best way that they can reach you?

[00:25:18] Lori Highby: Awesome. We will include that information in our show notes. Thank you so much for being on the show today.

Super fun conversation. We all learned a couple new nuggets as well. All right. Well, this is three broads wrapping up, reach out. We want to hear from you if you're interested in being on the show, or you have any guest recommendations, send them our way. Have a fantastic week until next time.

[00:25:42] Announcer: This wraps up today's broadcast. If you're looking to shake up the status quo at your organization, or just want to connect with these broads, visit [00:26:00] mfgbroadcast. com. Contact Lori Highby for your strategic digital marketing initiatives. Contact Kris Harrington for OEM and aftermarket digital solutions. And contact Erin Courtenay for web based solutions for your complex business problems.

We've got a great offer specifically for our listeners. You can find more information about the offers and your hosts at mfgbroadcast. com