About Nick:

Nick Schittone started his career in the music business, working for artist management companies responsible for artist relationships including Duran Duran and John (Cougar) Mellencamp, among other notable artists. From there, he joined a college television network start-up (CTN) as the Director of Programming where he worked with music labels, ESPN, Glamour Magazine, and History Channel to develop custom programming designed for young adults.  Nick then joined the marketing agency, Hothouse, 18 years ago to serve as the VP of Business Development focusing on client relationships. Since joining Hothouse, Nick has developed successful, long-term client relationships that include NBCUniversal, Deloitte, Mercedes-Benz, COX Automotive, CORT Furniture, STARZ, and IHG Hotels & Resorts, among other prominent and emergent brands. 

Nick shares how a spirit of co-creation and data-driven creative drives strong partnerships between agencies and brands. He explores the balance between data and creativity.

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Hi, I'm Guy Powell and welcome to the ninth episode

of the backstory on marketing. If you haven't already done so

please visit pro relevant.com and sign up for all of these

episodes and podcasts. I am the author of the upcoming book the

post COVID marketing machine, prepare your team to win. You

can find out more information on this at marketing machine dot

pro relevant.com. Today we'll be speaking with Nick's skin tone,

Vice President of Business Development for the hot house

agency. Let me tell you though, a little bit about Nick. He

started his career in the music business, working for artists

management companies responsible for artists relationships,

including Duran Duran, and John Cougar Mellencamp. He later

joined a College Television Network startup called CTN. As

the director of programming, where he worked with music

labels, ESPN, Glamour magazine and the History Channel. Nick

joined hothouse, a marketing agency about 18 years ago to

serve as Vice President of Business Development, focusing

on client relationships. Since joining hothouse, Nick has

developed successful long term client relationships with

amazing companies like NBC, Universal, Deloitte, Mercedes

Benz Cox, automotive, court furniture stars, and a handful

of others. Welcome, Nick. Thank you for having me. Yeah, great

to have you. So tell us a little bit about yourself. So what's

your backstory? on marketing?

Yeah, I mean, the way you read my bio, right,

I started in the music business. And the way that I started there

was pretty funny because I was in high school. I was in a rock

band, graduate high school, thinking to myself, You know

what, I'm going to be a famous rock band guy, and started

selling sending my demos out to management companies. And one of

them called me saying, Yeah, let's talk. And when I came into

the office and interviewed with them, it was less about being in

a rock band, but then looking for an intern. And that turned

into my opportunity working with the artist management company

for Duran Duran. And so it was ironic that what I thought was

more of a passion thing for me around being in a rock band

actually turned out to be a career thing, where it started

with working in an artist management company, learning

more about the business and how it works, and having a curiosity

for it and keep growing within it.

Yeah, fantastic. And so so now you're at hothouse,

tell us a little bit about what's going on there.

Yeah, that was also very accidental, because,

as you mentioned, you know, I went from the from the music

business side to a college television network side, that

then got acquired by MTV Networks. And it was an exciting

time because I was in my 20s. During spring break productions,

music, I never thought of myself as an agency person. But during

that time period, I was working with sponsors. And that's when I

got to learn more about the agency side of the equation

where in order to get those brands to sponsor programming

and things like that, I had to learn what agencies wanted. So

after my tenure with MTV Networks, I was interested in

learning more about what the agency world was like, I was

introduced to hot house by a friend over at Turner. It was a

very, very small shop back then focusing on entertainment

marketing, which I thought was perfect for me, because our

president came from Turner. I came from MTV. And that's how

the the the relationship started, got started really was

can we do more entertainment marketing work, which guy led to

relationships with HBO, where we worked on Game of Thrones, where

we worked with Showtime, and working on shows like promoting

homeland, working with AMC Networks to promote walking

dead. So it was a great start of my agency tenure, which then

evolved into more of these integrated brands that you

talked about, like IG hotels, and others because as the agency

grew, we invited diverse people to join us, and they had so much

other backgrounds that I could leverage in the storytelling of

the agency that allowed us to diversify our portfolio along

the way.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting, I've been in

marketing, you know, maybe just as long as you have and, and it

is fun to see the brands that you work on, and certainly the

bigger brands are a lot much more fun, they have a lot more

money and, and then to be on the entertainment side of things for

quite a while that, you know, like The Walking Dead and, you

know, some of the other ones that you mentioned, had to have

been a lot of fun. Sounds like pretty cool. It's an exciting

work.

Definitely a lot of fun, great experiences. And

you know, we talk a lot about the brands and the properties,

but it's really about the people, right, the people you

meet along the way, the people you can connect with and say,

Hey, can we do something together? Here's an idea.

Here's, here's a potential of something we can do together.

And to see that spark come alive is the best part of the agency

business that I've experienced to date.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And, you know, it's

interesting to to see, you know, how those relationships develop,

and it really does come down to the one on one, and then you

know, where both sides are really getting a lot of value

from, from what, you know, from each side of what they're doing.

So makes a lot of sense. So, but marketing has certainly changed

here over the last couple of years. And, and now with COVID,

and post COVID. So what do you think are the biggest challenges

facing some of your clients and some of your brands,

you know, you hear a lot about data. And data

is, has good sides to it. And also challenging sides to it,

the data gives you more insights of what brands are looking for,

to help them elevate their game. But because data is so present,

now, in marketing, people want to see instant ROI. And as you

know, you don't see a TV commercial today for a car and

then immediately go to the car dealership and buy. And so

there's this pressure, endless pressure on marketers to deliver

instant ROI. And so how do we educate marketers and the people

that they work with, that these campaigns that we develop, even

though there are insights that we're leveraging data that we're

leveraging, we're testing, there's got to be a long game

into these kinds of considerations. It's not just

about the instant ROI. And so I feel that there's a lot of

pressure now that as AI comes into play, and data still

becomes more prevalent prevalent in these campaigns, how it just

puts the pressure to get that instant ROI.

Yeah, absolutely. And we work for a brand that was

about to put a commercial in the Superbowl. And they wanted by

Monday morning, the sun, you know, after the Sunday, they

wanted a projection of how well that ad performed, and whether

it generated an ROI. And so to your point about, you know, I

gotta know what happened now. And but nevertheless, you know,

you're not really only looking at what the short term value is,

you're looking for what the long term value, because that's

really where we're marketing, I think plays a role and a huge

role for the company. It's not about not necessarily only about

closing deals today, it's closing deals tomorrow, next

month, next quarter next year, and setting up your brand to do

that. Couldn't agree more? Yeah. And, you know, so machine

learning and AI, you mentioned those, they've certainly come to

be a big component of a lot of the different marketing

activities that that underlie the the operations of the of the

marketing team.

Yeah, and you know, to to expand on that. You

can have all this data in front of you, you still need people to

dissect it, analyze it, to make a hypothesis of what we can do

with it. Yes, you can test and see things in action. But I

think the value today for marketers around data is going

to be who are those people that can read into the data, see

something special in it? That's worth testing, worth exploring

further, not only from a measurement perspective, but

even creativity, right? I mean, when people are seeing ads and

things like that, yes, you want them to buy something, but you

also want people to feel connected to it, right? And

creativity does that there's a piece of creative that all of a

sudden stands out to you and goes, Wow, that's pretty clever.

I love that this brand did that. I want to learn more about them.

And there's various campaigns in the marketplace that you can

immediately think about when you say that, right? Like, wow,

they're a very clever brand and how they talk and how they walk.

And so I think having the superpower to understand how

data could help amplify the next level of creativity is going to

be key for marketers.

Yeah, absolutely. We're working with a furniture

company right now. And one of the questions is, you know, we

know what the data that they have is, but you also have to

kind of capture the data that's related to the business

question. And, you know, in their case, you know, it's not

just about you know, how well does TV work, but how well did

this specific campaign work? How well did it influence other sub

components to that campaign? How did it influence search, or, you

know, or social or what have you and, and so it's not just about

getting the data. That's, that's available, but making sure

you're getting the right data, and potentially adding data to

that to make sure you're going to be able to really provide the

insights that you need to make those campaigns really, really

successful.

Yeah, it sounds like what you're saying guy is

how you're building on things as you go, right. There used to be

a time where campaigns were seen as one and done. It's a holiday

campaign, right? It's summer something but what we're really

do During these days is taking a look at the campaign's how they

flow together, what we're learning every time we're trying

to build a next evolution, you know, evolution of those things,

and having at least a look back and began to say, Okay, what

worked there? What didn't work, let's avoid those mistakes. And

let's build on those things moving forward, right. But

everybody's running with their hair on fire, which means when

you get that call saying we need to do something, people want it

today. And so how do you pause, take a look at the questions

again, think about the insights, the guidance, to make sure that

whatever you're planning for, is a good foundation moving

forward, built on what you've done in the past.

Yeah, you know, it's funny, when you you're talking

about that, you know, it's not just what you did today, but how

can you continuously improve it? And then also, to your point

about being able to answer questions very quickly. You

know, in our business, it takes a while to get to a place where

you have an infrastructure to where you can then say, Oh, you

want that answer? I can give you that tomorrow, but I got to

build up all of this stuff, first, the operations piece of

it to be able to do that. And I think you're right, I think, you

know, the, the CEO says to the CMO, well, how did it go this

weekend? And he needs to know, because the CEO has got, you

know, there's his shareholder call, or his board call, or

whatever it is. And he needs to know. So, you know, you got to

be able to answer that. And, and that, that definitely, you know,

means that you have to be flexible and ready to, you know,

be prepared for those kinds of questions.

And guy, that's an aspiration, we have, like,

you know, I think every agency in this country or in this

world, you know, not only do they want to work with great

marketing teams, they would love access to the other C suite

people to understand what the pressures are on them, how they

look at these kinds of programs, how they understand how these

things can help them with their business, because sometimes it's

seen in a silo, right? Like, by the time an agency sometimes

gets a brief, it's already two or three tiers down where it's

like the CEO said something, then it went to this tier of

people saying, Okay, let's put some money behind it, then

there's a team that actually starts thinking about it. And

then by the time it comes to us, it's like, Can we ask any

questions? Can we influence this in any way? And it's like, no,

we need to be out there tomorrow. And you're like, Okay,

let's, let's work with it. But I think every agency would love a

seat at the table, to better understand the pressures on the

CEO and say, Hey, we can do this in the short term. But we also

want to make sure we're doing these things for the long term,

too. How do we balance that for you that you can see it and find

value in it? And then over time, see the results and the impacts

of the things we're doing together?

Yeah, and I agree with, with that, and, you know,

and no question that you it's easy to get kind of access to

kind of the mid tier level, the senior level, and then they get

access, so to speak to the sea level, and then the CEO, it's,

you know, it's kind of like a pyramid, you might get, you

know, half a minute or a couple of minutes with with them. But

one of the things that I've learned that I'm sure you have,

too, is when the CEO asks a question, then, you know, it's

really understanding what's behind that question. Number

one, and then number two, being prepared for that same question,

you know, three months from now, when the next quarter comes up,

or being ready to make sure that you're ready to answer those

kinds of questions, because you know, that the question is going

to come back again. And so we kind of see that as a way to

drive, how we're supporting our clients, based on what those

questions are that get asked,

no doubt. I mean, I always tell our people

that 50% of what we do his politics, not only are we

selling to audiences, but we're actually you know, finding out

politically how things work internally, to get people

aligned, to get people to see value, to understand how it

connects to their business strategy, to make everyone say,

We're bested in it. And it's not just, it didn't perform, it's

done. It's it didn't perform as good as we thought, how can we

build on it? And so understanding those nuances of

what triggers people internally to say yes to No, stop pause, is

absolutely critical. So you know, we're becoming consultants

to them, in the spirit of just partnership, and building better

together.

Yeah, absolutely. And to your point about 50% is

politics. I mean, there's certainly a big piece of that,

because everybody has a different agenda. And one of the

big challenges that we have is and we try and overcome that by,

you know, doing interviews ahead of time and stakeholder

interviews, to make sure we understand exactly what they all

want. And I'm sure you do and kind of a similar process. So

because you have to understand it. Yeah. And you have to not

only and I think one of the hardest jobs for a an agency is

selling the creative internally, because there's always people

that think that you know, they have a maybe, and I don't mean

it in a negative way, but they might have a slightly better

idea, or how do you how does that, you know, how do you think

that's going to work? What's the research on it, and being able

to really sell that internally to the to the rest of the

company is is a big challenge.

Yeah, that's changed a lot over time guy, I

don't know how I'm sure that this really successful agencies

do this. And we've learned to do this, which is, it's not about

you giving us a brief we disappear. And then we come back

to you with an aha moment. It's about co creation. It's about

collaboration, that they're part of every step, because budgets

are always tight. No matter how much budget you get, it's always

tight, right? You can get 100,000 A million dollars, and

it always feels tight. So what you don't want to do is waste

people's time and money. So knowing that there's a lot of

political pressure internally for these things to work, right.

Having the spirit of procreation where we're working together at

every step of the way. There shouldn't be any surprises. One,

once we go into the marketplace, it shouldn't be, hey, I knew it

wasn't going to work. Because you know, these guys surprised

us with an idea too late. No, we've been building it together.

We've been getting buy in along the way. And so I think the

successful agencies obviously understand that and have to

construct continue to go down that path of procreation.

Yeah, I really liked that term. And I'm gonna have

to, you know, you're you're, you're you're almost consulting

to me on some of the things because that term is a good one,

we do a, you know, we do a lot of that as well, as, you know,

it's not just us throwing some numbers across the transom and

hoping they stick at it is a question of what is it that you

want? And, and that absolutely makes a lot of sense. And, and

certainly for an agency and getting the, you know, the

right, the right materials out and the right creatives out and

the right channels done and everything it has to be co

created. So do you see any differences, though, between

larger clients and smaller clients? Are they all the same?

Or any major differences there?

You know, you, when it comes to larger clients,

they have more politics, right? They want to move quickly, but

then they themselves sometimes slow themselves down, right?

Just because of the nature of the amount of people that have

to approve things. To get them to say yes, but they do have

bigger budgets, and they have more sophisticated in house

resources, that allows us to kind of understand better plugin

better and things like that. The the emergent brands, they're

excited on day one, but their appetite is bigger than their

budget, right? And so, and then less sophisticated, they just

want to be out there just testing things where you know,

if it doesn't work, they immediately stop. And so how do

we, as an agency, bring kind of the balance to those things,

saying, Hey, you're an emergent brand, you know, you got tight

resources. But let's plan this out the right way, based on our

experience, so that we can find success. And it's not a short

term thing, it's a long term thing. I want to build your

brand, right, everybody wants to build a brand. And so and so I

think the biggest difference is, you know, the bigger companies

moving slower, with more sophisticated, you know, smaller

brands wanting to move quicker, but having less resources and

other ways of measuring and thinking about things that kind

of make it a little bit more challenging. But that's our job.

Every time we get a call to say let's do something together if

it if it checks off the boxes for us to say, Okay, I think we

can do some special things here. It's up to us to guide them. And

so sometimes creatives and others just want to do the work.

But I think people in my role have to think about, okay, I'm

here to benefit the client, but I'm also here to benefit our

people. How do I set the stage that everyone can play well

together, manage expectations, get alignment and think about

the long game?

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think to, to

your point about the larger companies, you know, they just

have momentum, and that momentum is everywhere, it's in selling,

it's in being in distribution, it's being in marketing, and,

and, you know, so they're ready, because to take the longer leap,

so to speak, because they, they have the infrastructure to

really make sure that things are working, and, and then to, you

know, continuously improve and work against that. I think the I

think you're right, the smaller companies, they you know,

they're depending on how small or how emergent they are, if it

doesn't work that first time, you know, they can be really

screwed for the, for the future. So you know, you have to take

the time even for them to get it right. But you also have to be

able to change very quickly when something isn't working. So,

yeah, makes a lot of things. We're

about to we're bound to get into the creative

freight phase for an emerging brand that we're excited about

working with where they hired us because we have that big brand

expertise. They are listening. We are co creating. We are

talking about expectations. They're on board, we're on

board, the team is excited. And so I'm hoping that when it gets

out into the marketplace, the reactions aren't going to be

immediate. It's going to be how is it performing? What can we do

to make it better and so the test is on and we'll see where

it goes next. But, you know, we want to preserve that spirit.

Because we want to nurture those things as they progress.

Yeah. And you want to keep them for a long term

clients, so you have to continue to build on and be successful

with them. And success is not an easy thing. I mean, yeah, you

can roll the dice. And you might get lucky. But unless you really

put in that prep, like you're talking about rolling the dice

are, the probability of winning is a lot, lot higher. And and

all that prep work is critical. No question about it.

Yeah. And if you think about it, guy, like every

agency struggles with, who do we work with? Sometimes, you know,

you want to work with the giant brands, because you think that's

gonna give you fortune and fame, and they prove to be really

difficult. And then you work with some mid market clients

that you're like, oh, pleasantly surprised that we can do bigger

things with them than some of these emerging brands, you know,

some of them do do turn out to be a winner for you. Because you

know, you're happy with the relationship with the outcomes.

But you know, making decisions on who to bet on is, you know,

it's not just a brand thing. It's, it's an agency thing to

like, we look at the stuff that comes our way and goes, Okay, is

this right for us? Do we want to invest in this? Do we see

upside? Are they listening to us? Can we influence them? Can

they are they going to value us? Like there's a whole host of

questions we asked ourselves, and if it checks enough boxes,

we're like, okay, we hope they're in it with us. But you

know, you only find out once you're in it to see you know,

what succeeds? and what doesn't? And what are the learning

lessons? Regardless, because even when things go, Well, you

want to learn from those things and say, Okay, how do we apply

those principles to this? Even when it's not working? How do we

avoid?

Yep. Yeah, absolutely. And I, and to your

point, as well. I mean, luckily, I've never had to fire a client,

all our clients have been really good and, you know, ready for

the kind of environment that we have. But you're right, if you,

you know, you you run into a client, and you think, you know,

they're going to be able to work with them and be able to help

them and guide them along, to really have success on both

sides. And then sometimes, you know, you hear stories where the

politics or the internal, whatever is going on, and you

just can't you just kind of can see that you just can't be

successful there.

Yeah, it just organic all of a sudden just

stops. Because it proves to be too difficult to nurture, and

maintain that sometimes it's not even about firing. It's like we

both see it that it's just, hey, it's not what we thought it

would be. You're a giant company, we'd love to do that

kind of work with you. But for some reason, there's so many

stops, and so many twists and turns that is turning our

stomachs to and we'd love to do this with you. But all of a

sudden, the conversations just end and it's okay.

Yeah. Yep. Well, let's get on to some positive

stuff. Yeah. So what do you see as the big trends coming up? In

marketing? What's what's really hot now? And where do you think

there's some new opportunities for brands to maybe get some

short term or even some long term wins?

Yeah, I think you know, the world of

creativity is always exciting. If you can embrace the next

generation of creativity, right? You're hearing about the

metaverse, and a obviously agencies like ours are like,

what is this world about? You know, what, what are brands

doing? What does it mean, from a creativity perspective

developments? We talked about data on all things. At first, it

scared us because we're like, Oh, my God, the machines are

taken over the world. But then you're like, you know what,

those that those data points need to be powered by

creativity? Again, who are those people that can help unpack the

data to help us build a better creative. And so I think

marketers are now starting to find this balance, that it's not

just all about data, data data, when we bring it the balance

back between data and creative. So I think that allows people to

be creative, again, that you're leading with creative strategy,

you're testing a little bit more, you're thinking about

creative segmentation, that whatever I do on TV is not what

I'm going to be doing on tick tock. And so you know, who are

the players in the marketing side, on the brand side, as well

as on the agency side? Who are the specialists that can inform

something new and different? And so it's about curiosity, you

know, if you if you have the appetite for testing,

determining what's working on different platforms. So I think

the bevy of opportunities within the creative, creative space is

endless. It's just a matter of what's right for the brand.

What's right for the budget at hand and the player that are

involved, that we can co create together and see how we can

elevate the messaging and the creativity in such a way that

really connects with people. Because at the end of the day, I

think the reason why you joined the agency business is because

you want to connect with people, whether it's on the on the brand

side or you are on the end user to consumer side. It's it's that

feeling you get like wow, it's connecting. This what if this

conceptual idea is resonating? And, and I'm a part of it. So

it's exciting to see we just want to know award with one of

our clients, IHG hotels. And it was all about welcoming back

travelers because of what's been going on with COVID. And dispute

of the spot is positive. We went with like happy music, the

world's opening up again, go connect with people, it

resonated, it achieved all the things, but you know,

creatively, it made us all smile, like this, put a smile on

my face. And when I posted it, even on LinkedIn, you know, even

the business community smiled and said, This is great. And so

I think that's why we do what we do, right? Because it connects

with people and puts a smile on your face.

Yeah, and I think you're right, I think the you

know, there was kind of a tendency to do a lot of data.

And we're the data guys and you know, we love good data. But on

the other hand, we know that the reason why the creative guys may

get the big bucks is because it is hard to come up with really

good creative and that really just resonates kind of like what

you were saying with IHG you know, that creative that

resonates? That's just an immediate success. You know, and

there's, there's really a handful of good examples that

were one little creative, put the company on the map. And one

of them is Aflac. We used to work with Aflac and that Aflac

Duck when it came out, it was just, it just the company just

exploded. And that's, you know, that's where the creative is so

important.

Your goal? Yeah, I do think you know, as long as

creatives know that we have to be data lead, insights, lead.

It's all about a business strategy. Once that's set, let

the creativity come into play, let it go in places where you

didn't think was possible, and test it, see what happens to

you, it might shock you, you know, think areas that you

didn't think that the creative should be, might be one of the

most influential areas where it's growing your business,

because you just didn't think about that, you know, initially.

So I think to your point, you know, it's becoming more

balanced. And I think it's good for everyone.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think you're

right, you know, you you know, the balance between too much

data too little creative, or whatever. I think it's

definitely swinging back to more creative. And I do believe, you

know, that the most successful companies are going to use data,

to derive their creative, and, and then of course, to, you

know, provide continuous improvement along the way. So it

makes it definitely makes a lot of sense. So, looking into the

future, then where do you see growth coming from for? Now, you

know, given that maybe there's a market slowdown or whatever?

Where do you see growth coming from?

Yeah, I mean, in terms of where growth comes

from, I think it starts with keeping an open mind, having a

curiosity for new things, as you know, guy, I'm a part of ama

Atlanta, which is part of the National American Marketing

Association, putting on events, where we're talking about what's

next. Right? So having a curiosity for new ground, if you

are receptive to it, understand it and can package those

opportunities up to clients and prospects and say, Yeah, I think

we understand this enough to be dangerous, you know, would you

could you what if explore together, I think that can

unlock new growth, not only for our agency, it's not a selfish

thing. It's more about, could you imagine if we tested

something, how this could help your business too. So I think

the growth comes from New Media platforms, new levels of

creativity, that brands are willing to invest in us having

constantly an open mind that it's not these six, seven things

that we do in marketing, that it could be 10 1215 things. It

allows us to even be more conceptual, testing more areas,

and really push the boundaries on what marketing really is,

right? It used to be considered just an advertising campaign.

There are brands that are probably doing things that

aren't advertising that are really working well. And it's

helping the business to grow. And so what are those channels,

like, understanding it better, whether it's b2b, whether it's

trade show, whether it's consumer, it's having that open

mindset that, you know, everything can can be in play,

and that allows us to grow in the marketplace?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's also, you

know, to your point about taking on potentially trying or testing

new media channels, and, you know, I think, you know, going

back 15 or 20 years when the internet first came out, I think

there was, you know, big winners that just have brands that just

jumped on the jumped on and move very quickly. And then you have,

you know, all of the all of the improvements that have taken

place since then, and those early brands that jumped on

that. And you know, you mentioned the AMA and we have an

event coming up on NF Ts, maybe talk Talk about NF T's What do

you see going on there?

Yeah, like, like I mentioned to you, you know, to

it's a new world, we don't fully understand it. And so we asked

some experts to join us. So we got the Global Director of

Mehta, a huge, obviously, they're deeply immersed in that

world. And then we even got the head of innovation from Turner

Sports, who, when I, when I spoke to this individual said,

Hey, we're using these sports properties, and basketball, golf

and others, and other properties that they work with to do these

brand immersion experiences. And we're like, wow, tell me more.

And so, you know, I'm very curious to learn more about how

brands are thinking about these meta verse NFT related

experiences to engage with consumers, how things can get

tokenized how you get incentivized, how you get

rewarded as a customer, as a fan? Would it mean, what does it

mean? How's it how's it dimensionalized? So it's very,

very, it's deciding to learn more so but it just like you and

maybe others, you know, we're asking the questions, is this

relevant with the brands that I work with? Who could it be

relevant for? We might be stereotypical about it and say,

it's not relevant for this brand. But maybe after this

conversation, we're like, maybe what if, what if we tested that

they didn't think it was right for them? Well, maybe we can

take 5% of a budget and see what we can do with that, see if that

has any meaning to it. So I'm excited to learn more from these

individuals about what's possible, and what the future is

going to look like. Because they're building the platforms

for the future for other entities to come in and play.

It's a sandbox, right? So it's going to be exciting to learn

more from them.

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, even even other

technologies, like even the, you know, a smartphone or whatever,

with when they first came out, they weren't smart. And now, I

mean, the, you know, you only use the phone for maybe 1% of

its capabilities. And, you know, hopefully there'll be some

really interesting things coming up with NF T's or maybe there's,

you know, other stuff that, that'd be really fascinating.

Yeah, I'm excited to hear more about that, that's for sure. And

ready to invest in something. I don't know what it is, but her

investments in something there.

Yeah, I mean, if marketers want to learn how to

really succeed in our world die, everyone's talking about the

skills that you need to have, right? And of course, you need

to have skills, right? If you, if you want to be a designer,

you gotta have design skills, right? If you're going to be a

videographer, you gotta learn how to shoot video. But I do

think the most important quality you can bring to the table is

curiosity. Right? An open mind, to say what's possible? Because

if you just look at things from a one track perspective, that's

where life will take you. What if curiosity says How could I

play in this? What would that be? And having also the skills

to be able to sell those things conceptually to people, right?

We were in a conceptual world, right? We're building ideas in

our own minds, having to give to sell something to other people

to say, whatever. And being excited and showing people that

you love it enough that it's worth pursuing. That's like a

gift that you can give not only to yourself, but to give to

other people you work with, because people like to rally

around things to see, okay, how could we, let's build it

together. And let's hack it, you know, design thinking is all

about giving you something and just keep packing it to make it

better. So I think you know, that spirit needs to come alive,

even bigger and bigger ways as these new worlds open up for us.

Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned curiosity

before, and I was gonna hone in on that. And you are so right.

And that's not a skill. I don't know if you can learn that skill

in college or whatever. But it's definitely something that, you

know, if you have that, whether you're going to be a designer or

a creative or a media buyer, or whatever it is. If you have the

curiosity you are going to do you have to do well, because

it's just asking the question, Well, how could we maybe use

this to our advantage in some way? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So

if you were going to invest in the future in a technology and

lay down, you know, 10 grand or something like that, what would

that be?

Again, I think like the metaverse given that

it's a new ground territories, I see the younger generation not

consuming the media that maybe perhaps you and I don't want to

stereotype you guys because much, probably much younger than

me. But, you know, I see the way they're consuming media. It's

much differently than the way I grew up, right? Newspapers are

not a thing anymore. Neither are magazines. TV, while people are

watching it, it's more on demand. And that means you're

bypassing the ads. So these new worlds that are opening up on

social, some of them are going to take off in big ways. And so

you know, could could you buy a piece of real estate within it

and and have that kind of have the ability to create something

in it to test to invite brands to even be a part of it. I think

that's where I would put some money for sure.

Yeah, yeah, I was thinking about that, as, you

know, could you buy a, you know, a property on Times Square? Or

could you buy a property in Central Park or something like

that, and whatever it is in the metaverse and and then hold on

to it for a handful of years and make some money at it. I

remember, you know, delta.com used to not be owned by Delta

Airlines. And they had to pay big bucks for that. So whoever

had it, it was supposedly a computer store, but whoever had

it, and they did, they did pretty well by you know, picking

out that one asset that was really valuable. Yeah. So

anyway, so what's the one most important thing you'd like to

get across today? Before we close,

I think the curiosity factor that I was

leaning into, you know, I'm not a traditional marketer, I came

from the music side of things, the television side of things, I

found the business of the agency world curious enough to learn

more about it, and then stumble my way into it. Even when I meet

with people, it's not it's not necessarily I'm going in there

with a hard business proposition. It's really about

listening, learning, asking a million questions, seeing what's

on the minds of people. So I think that if you have a spirit

of curiosity, I think it can take you to lots of different

places, lots of fun places that you didn't think were possible,

just simply because you asked. And you were curious enough to

ask.

Yeah, it's funny how that, that that question the

what if question is so, so important. And and then you

know, that innate, either you either have it or you don't, or

you have it really strong or maybe not so strong, but being

able to really be curious about, you know, how this works, or how

this could work. And I think that that's a really good point.

So anyway, Nick, thank you so much, really appreciate it. And

actually, you know, I need to get some consulting from you.

Yeah, there were a couple of things that you mentioned that I

could definitely use and how I pitch my business and stuff like

that. So really appreciate it. And otherwise, please stay tuned

for other videos in this series of the backstory on marketing.

And please visit marketing machine dot pro relevant.com to

download this, the first chapter of my book and other valuable

excerpts, Nick, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Thank you so much, guy.