Nobody really explains this part of relationships either.

That a lot of the friction isn’t about love, or communication, or effort.

It’s about order.

And chaos.

And which one of you is quietly losing your mind because the other one will not, under any circumstances, make a plan.

Hi, I’m Lauren Howard. You can call me L2. Like other people do.

And in this episode of Different, Not Broken, I introduce you to the single most accurate relationship framework I’ve ever found.

It comes from the greatest relationship philosopher of our time.

Jim Henson.

I’m talking Order Muppets and Chaos Muppets.

Who they are.

Why they keep finding each other.

And why once you see it, you genuinely can’t unsee it.

We get into partners, kids, siblings, colleagues, and the moment when an Order Muppet finally snaps and goes full feral Kermit.

We talk about why chaos isn’t a flaw.

Why order isn’t control.

And why most conflict is really just two nervous systems speaking completely different languages.

There’s also a listener question about masking.

What it costs.

Why it’s exhausting.

And how to start noticing who you actually are underneath all the coping.

It’s funny.

It’s unreasonably accurate.

And it will absolutely ruin the way you look at the people in your life, in the best possible way.

If you’ve ever thought “why am I the only one holding this together?”

Or “why does this person make everything harder?”

Congratulations. You’re probably a Muppet.

Let’s figure out which kind.

Useful stuff

Stuff that helps you become awesome even if you’re different: https://stan.store/elletwo

My grown up job: https://lbeehealth.com/

Timestamped summary

00:00 Are You an Order Muppet or a Chaos Muppet?

02:18 Jim Henson’s accidental relationship genius

05:04 Why opposites don’t just attract, they survive

08:41 Families, kids, and chaos tolerance

11:22 When Order Muppets finally lose their shit

13:09 Listener question: masking and exhaustion

14:05 How to start unmasking without blowing up your life

Mentioned in this episode:

Build Your Better course

Build your better course - https://stan.store/elletwo/p/build-your-better

Brag on yourself

Wanna brag on yourself for something you've done which you're proud of? https://differentnotbrokenpodcast.com/voicemail

Are you an

order

Muppet or a chaos Muppet?

if beaker's involved, shit is gonna end up on fire.

And Every person is either an order muppet

or a chaos muppet.

so obviously

I work in mental health.

I run a mental health company.

I have spent a lot of time around incredible clinicians who have taught me.

Lots of really amazing things about relationship dynamics and how people

interact with each other and how they work together, and how communication works best

and what

types of personalities tend

do

well together, et cetera, et cetera.

Like

all of that is, kind of germane to being in this field

and I

Have never found a theory more accurate or more appropriate.

That helps me describe almost any

pair

of people quite like this one, which relies on a lot of.

understanding of relationship dynamics, that we're.

kind

crafted

by the greatest relationship philosopher of our time.

Jim Henson

It was an article in, I

wanna say slate

in

2013,

That still guides pretty much

everything.

Not everything,

but a lot of

how I understand relationship dynamics.

It

is an article called

Chaos Theory,

A Unified Theory of Muppet Types,

and it sorts everybody into one

of two camps.

Are you an

order

Muppet or a chaos Muppet?

Every

Muppet

Has their

counterbalance in the Muppet universe.

Whether they're order

chaos that balances

out their order or their chaos.

Ms. Piggy has Kermit

Ms. Piggy,

definitely the Chaos.

Muppet Kermit

Order.

Muppet Kermit tries

keep

things calm until he eventually loses his shit

Usually at the hands of Miss

Pig.

Miss Piggy has no interest in calm, no interest in order, and together they

balance each other.

Same thing with buns and beaker, Bunsen, calm, scientific,

great

mind

brain's so big.

he's bold.

Beaker is so chaotic.

he can't

even speak an established language.

He's all meeps and moops.

It may be an established language that I'm not familiar with.

You're right, that's shortsighted.

I should give him more credit than that.

But if beaker's involved, shit is gonna end up on fire.

And

And it's rarely a bun's

fault,

but

they need each other.

Abundance needs a beaker and a beaker needs a,

We

can look at our old pals.

Umbert

and Ernie, public television's, first out gay couple.

but you

know

that Bert

Iron Irons, his underwear, you know, he does.

if you got the

reference,

get at

me where the reference is from.

You know, besties.

If you got that reference and Ernie has probably never done laundry in his life.

He's wearing the same shirt.

They

They

need each other.

This is not just a theory of Muppets.

Your life is probably

guided by Muppet Chaos Theory in my house.

I am the Order Muppet.

My husband is unmitigated

chaos.

Muppet,

my

husband has never met a plan

he could

tolerate.

I

am like all plans.

I'm only plans.

That gives me an idea.

I'm gonna walk.

I'm gonna walk away from

I'm gonna walk

away from that, but I'm gonna come back to it later.

I'm gonna come back to it later.

Okay.

I'm just saying.

I'm just saying

a

service to watch

people build spreadsheets and call it only plans.

Anyway, that just came to me.

Trademark.

I'm trademarking that step

away.

Internet.

Anyway,

My husband is all chaos.

He only has chaos.

It's all he is capable of.

we balance each other mostly, sometimes, occasionally.

if I look at my brother and my sister-in-law,

he

is all chaos Muppet.

He is only chaos Muppet.

She is all order Muppet.

That's all.

She's got all order.

Sometimes a chaos muppet can become an order Muppet often when order muppets

get pushed to the brink of insanity and become full chaos muppets by just

like going full.

angry Kermit and smashing things with flailing

puppet arms.

That does happen, but it usually requires a

catalyst.

Every person is either an order muppet

or a chaos muppet.

once you start

understanding this, your understanding of relationship dynamics will change.

Fundamentally,

it's so important.

This is how I judge all

relationships.

My children, I have one order Muppet and one chaos

mpe.

my oldest, full

order Muppet.

she can't go to sleep unless things are organized and straight on her desk.

My

youngest

only

chaos Muppet, she does not give a shit where anything is.

Mm-hmm.

Nothing bothers her.

She will sleep on top of mess.

She does not care.

She doesn't care.

Whereas my oldest is like,

something is outta place.

Everything's gonna burn down.

It's

not gonna burn down.

No.

I mean,

Probably not, probably not gonna burn down.

Probably not.

Anyway, it's been what,

13

years and I still use this as the guidepost for all

things relationship dynamics.

So I encourage you to go read the article,

Which is at this point literature,

like, it's history.

It's

an important part of our zeitgeist.

we must accept it as

a philosophical tome.

But tell me if you

are an Order Muppet or a Chaos Muppet, and then look at the people around you and

find me one

person who doesn't fit.

Find me one.

I I bet you can.

I bet you can.

it

is the way that I judge all relationships in my existence despite

being around people who can give me

in theory, better

ways to assess relationships.

None of them hold up this one does.

This one is the best guide by which you can judge all

relationships, and I stand by that.

And now we'll go to Allison who has this week's small talk.

Hi L two.

I've been listening for a few months and keep pausing episodes

because it feels like you're talking directly to me, which is unsettling,

but also kind of comforting.

I'm realizing how much I mask at work, especially in meetings.

I come home absolutely wiped and still feel like I didn't do enough.

How do you start unpacking masking when it's basically become your personality?

Okay, so the first thing is that that a lot, like,

a lot, like almost daily, that people say that

don't know how I knew they needed to hear something or something like

that.

I didn't know, but I know what I needed to hear at some point.

And the whole premise kind of

of all of this is that.

I got

this place in my life thinking that things were just me.

And it wasn't until I started talking about them that I

realized that there were other

in almost identically the same

situation.

so point didn't know you needed

hear it.

I didn't know that anybody needed to hear it.

It's what I needed to hear at some point.

And the only

compass I have reference.

So

I, glad

that is working out for you and that you're getting what you need out of it.

And also, I'm sorry.

'cause I know sometimes

it

like you're being personally attacked and I don't mean to, I apologize.

the question which is how to, you know, figure out when you're

masking and when you're not.

so masking is frequently a function of neurodivergence, and it's how

a people who identify as neurodivergent or don't realize they're neurodivergent, make

themselves quote unquote, normal enough to

in neurotypical environment.

Normal exist.

Normal's bullshit.

It's

a

non-existent standard, but it's the

that, that people use to put themselves through that.

so that's,

you know, a real thing, that's valid thing.

it's not only neuro divergent people who have to shrink to fit

or change their personality to

try to make friends or, or

fit in.

I think that be a very universal experience.

and it is really

easy to forget

are in those environments

to actually are.

in some cases you've been doing

the years

your life you're not sure who you are.

there's no right way to do that

except to start taking a

back and

clocking what feels

and what doesn't.

What feels

something you want to do and what feels like something you don't want to do.

Does that

just stop doing all the things you don't

wanna do?

No, of

of those like be done.

Like, can't think of people who are like, I'm so excited to

at five o'clock in the morning and

go to today.

That doesn't

great a lot of people, but you still have to if you have to pay bills.

can't think of anybody who's like, man, the DMV sounds great,

you still need a so you still have go do it.

But are there ways to make it more comfortable?

Are there ways to.

Adapt so that you care less about what the people around you think

and more about what makes you comfortable in that situation.

So some examples

like you to ride the train

work every day.

And

because

are other people around you know, you

make sure that you

are dressed professionally and that you're wearing uncomfortable shoes

because they nice with your outfit.

And

you don't take a seat if there's else around who needs the seat or whatever.

There's all

things that you do

to be socially

in that situation.

And should you take From the elderly and infirm, not.

Please give them chair.

But

also.

is it okay to

down once in a

a while

you are tired too?

And if there's a chair available and

you know you're not sure it's an

to somebody,

but else going for take the seat.

been plenty of situations where I've been in

something like that where I'm like, it would more convenient for me do thing,

but I'm worried about inconveniencing

strangers

who are not a problem, so I'm not that thing.

And you can make a decision that the that you in that situation, you are gonna do.

Don't listen to your music on speaker, your headphones in.

But also like if the noise on the train bothers you

and

overstimulated

you're on the train, you can get earplugs even if you think that's gonna

rude to the people around who

you would normally interact with

because that's way you were taught.

You can get earplugs, you ignore people, you can read a book, you can to podcast.

You can all of

things that sometimes don't do in semi-public environments

because they feel like it's,

you know,

or inappropriate or whatever.

so it's really about, not about very

who you are and who you are not or even who wanna

because that's a question that's probably a little far away from you at this point.

But what good to my What gives anxiety?

tamps down my anxiety?

What makes

feel chaotic?

What makes feel like I'm in control of chaos?

How do I limit my stress?

Whatever,

and just leaning

that.

And

are times where

I am certain doing something way is

way I wanna it.

And in actual,

practice.

I hate it.

And I don't wanna do it that way, even though I think

that's the way I wanna do it.

so be ready to find out new

about yourself because you might not, I mean, if you've doing this since you were

were 13,

15, especially for women, 'cause that's actually even earlier than that, that's

when we tend to assimilate into groups because girls tend to be more sensitive

social pressures than, boys are.

And, whole nother story

don't identify as either, because there's a, there's a whole beast there about

assimilation to norms when you don't as but people who do not identify as male,

put that way,

tend to to the

in their life where they start looking into either neurodivergence or

a diagnosis or even of just decide like.

don't like the way that their life is going and, the way they taught to

act and engage with people, and they want to find

they actually are in those things.

Sometimes

see this as of You see it when people get out bad relationships.

You see it when people move from one environment another and have to

start figuring out who are and how

are.

and so about listening

your body, which may have never done before, your brain, anxiety,

your sensory overload, and going

there.

there.

Thanks for being here guys.

Have a good day.

Love you meeting