Addictions and betrayal often go hand in hand; however, healing and restoration are possible.

Listen, as Jae Harrel shares her powerful journey of being restored, rebuilt, and renewed.

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No Grey Areas is a motivational podcast with captivating guests centered around how our choices humanize, empower, and define who we become. This podcast is inspired by the cautionary tale, No Grey Areas, written by Joseph Gagliano. Learn more about the truth behind his story involved with sports' biggest scandal at nogreyareas.com

Host

You're listening to the No Gray Areas podcast with Patrick McCullough. Today's guest is Jay Harrow, wife, mother and lifestyle coach. Jay guides us through life's unexpected challenges while loving those who betrayed us. Let's dove in.

Patrick McCalla

Well, welcome, Jay, to our No Gray Areas podcast. We talk about living on purpose for a purpose your husband was on last week. We're going to get in a moment, but I'll just get this out right now. You had pneumonia recently.

Jae Harrel

I didn't know.

Patrick McCalla

You told me if I make you laugh, you might start wheezing.

Jae Harrel

Yes. I'm going to hope that my lungs are good, OK? And Jesus is healing me. Yeah. And nothing will happen, but it might just be a funny thing. Well, he starts.

Patrick McCalla

Wheezing. We'll all laugh along with you. So that's. That's why I'm so glad you're feeling better. Yes.

Jae Harrel

So my. Oh, is this a little touch and go? Being pregnant and sick is not an enjoyable process by any means.

Patrick McCalla

Well, congratulations on that. So, third boy.

Jae Harrel

Third boy, and now ultrasound. Couple of weeks ago, we found out it another boy and God wants me to be born.

Patrick McCalla

How far along are you?

Jae Harrel

I'm pregnancy in eight. Yeah, OK. This week we're recording so I'll be about halfway through probably by the time this comes out.

Patrick McCalla

Well, congratulations.

Jae Harrel

Yeah, so fine.

Patrick McCalla

So we're going to jump right into this last week. If if they have not heard yet, I'm going to ask the listeners to stop right now. Yes. Go back and listen to last week's because they really need to listen. Josh is going to set up a lot of already set up a lot of what we're going to talk about because I'm going to jump right in to that.

Patrick McCalla

That time when Josh comes and he sits down with you and he starts talking about his struggle with addictions and identity issues, betrayal to you, what was that like? And this is why the listeners right now, they're probably going, wait, wait, I don't know, go back and listen.

Jae Harrel

Yeah, go back and listen. And I'm not just biased because my husband was on the podcast, but he really does lay a foundational work. And I think whether you are the betrayer or the betrayed, it's so important to get the full scope of both sides of this story because there's just so much that I have seen him go through that I've learned from and vice versa.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. And so many times I needed to hear other stories of other spouses that had gone through this and hear from both sides. So I would I would also encourage please go back and listen.

Patrick McCalla

Where he he when he describes that moment. In fact, on our podcast, he actually broke down a little bit because he said, I never experienced Jesus like I did in that moment. And part of that was your response in that moment. What was it like for you, though, when you heard that when he he's finally been open and transparent with these issues with you.

Jae Harrel

The hotel room in Florida? You know, so at this point in the story, we had had some initial confessions of dark secrets that have hidden for so long. And that's typically how it is with betrayal and addiction. It's kind of a slow leak.

Patrick McCalla

And you've been married about six years at that time, right?

Jae Harrel

Yeah, right, about six. I'm like, remember? See, you would know because you just started. Yes. Yeah. So we're about to celebrate our ten year university, and I can't believe it's been almost four years of healing and restoration that God's taken us through. And everyone always said it would be a long process. And I I wanted to I want to believe that that was a good thing.

Jae Harrel

But I think when you're just in pain, you want it to be you want.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah.

Jae Harrel

You want it to be done and there was good and bad. It was a very bittersweet time in that initial months because I was happy that Josh was revealing things to me and finally being honest because I knew that. I mean, we all know when someone's lying to us, right? We all know when something's not right, I think.

Patrick McCalla

Did you did you conscious sleep? No. Or do you think it was more subconsciously? I think I knew. Or did you did you like consciously in your mind say, I know he's lying, I know he's holding back?

Jae Harrel

I think for me, I knew there wasn't that breakthrough point for him yet. OK? And when I see breakthrough point, I just I knew there was wrestling happening in his heart, like his relationship with God was was revealing some hard things in his life that he really did need to deal with. And I had seen the aftermath of that through depression and anxiety and distance.

Jae Harrel

He can tend to be a very closed off person when he's struggling and so I'll ask him what's wrong or what's the matter? And he'll be like, I'm fine. I'm like, no, you're not. I know you're not. Like.

Patrick McCalla

I doubt any of our listeners have ever said that. When someone asks them how they're doing and they're not doing well. Miguel, I'm fine.

Jae Harrel

I'm right. And so I just kept I accepted that answer because he wasn't going to give me another one. But I knew in my heart and I knew and my spirit. And this was really where I, you know, backing up at that point, it would have been six years earlier. I had really gotten my body healthy and my relationship with Christ.

Jae Harrel

Right. And when I see that, I'd always grown up in the church. I'd always both my parents were pastors and pastors kid. And I had always had that upbringing of Christianity, but I never really experienced that raw relationship where you're so dependent on God that nothing else matters. And when I started, when God took me it my £240 ness and those of you who are watching this on video, you see, I'm obviously not £240 anymore.

Jae Harrel

I'm actually at a healthy weight for the first time in my adult life. And the reason why is because God convicted me of a part of my spirit where I wasn't being congruent. And so I had gone through this process of I had an emotional eating addiction to food and I had gone through this process of dealing with what Josh was just starting to deal with and in a different way.

Jae Harrel

So I was able to use my empathy for my own experience in watching him go through.

Patrick McCalla

It had become to the point where you were honest about where you were right and and transparent and authentic before God and where you were right now you're starting to see Josh go through something that you'd gone through. Yes. Which is one of the reasons you had some empathy.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. And it's hard to say what it is that you are actually it's humbling when you're going through this place of identity and who really am I and facing that because we all are fallen people. We all have our stuff. And I needed to name the stuff that I needed to own because for so long when I was growing up, I was like, I don't really have any issues.

Jae Harrel

Like, I didn't have a drug addict mom. I didn't have, you know, like my stories is kind of boring. And I'm sure God laughed when he said that because now I, you know, this was all part of a plan to have a story that even today I wrestle with sharing because our stories are just hard to share because they're so deeply personal and so deeply intimate.

Jae Harrel

And a lot of times they do have a lot of hurt attached to them. And so getting into that, watching him go through that process, it was hard. But I just had a lot of faith and I just felt the spirit inside of me say, like, just keep loving him, keep loving him. I know you don't want to keep loving him.

Jae Harrel

And all I saw were these I'm a very futuristic person. Futuristic is one of my main strengths and strength that we've talked about. And we could go another direction on this Vegas.

Patrick McCalla

But we had dinner couples the other night. We were talking about our strengths on Strength Finder. And that's one of your top ones, right? Yeah, futuristic.

Jae Harrel

And so I felt like God gave me all of these visions for Josh and the leader that he was, and he definitely was not that person before me in my eyes. In fact, he was a lot of a hot mess, but all God reminded me of was the person that he wants Josh to become. And it was through that lens that I started to see Josh differently, to treat him the way God wants to treat him.

Jae Harrel

And it wasn't by my own strength, by any means.

Patrick McCalla

How powerful is that? Because, again, if people will go back and listen to last week's podcast, Josh is talking about how he had to start seeing himself through God's eyes, not through his brokenness. Not through his addictions, not to his betrayals, that he had to start seeing who God did. He is fearfully and wonderfully made that he was knit together in his mother's womb.

Patrick McCalla

But you're saying that God was allowing you to see your husband through those eyes.

Jae Harrel

Yeah, because I think I'm reading in Ruth right now, and it's kind of the difference between Naomi and Ruth, right? Naomi saw her light. She wanted to change her name to Bitar and Ruth. She's out cleaning the fields, trying to find what she can to sustain her through this time. And I think God gives us two options. He gives us the option to be better and we're allowed to be better.

Jae Harrel

He's given us the ability, but it doesn't usually help us get anywhere. And there are seasons for those things, too. I had bitter moments, but it was in the moments where God just he met me where I am and he sustained me that I was able to glean what I could from the situation, which was hope for him and hope for our marriage and hope for the future of what our kids would have and in all of that.

Patrick McCalla

You both brought up have brought up issues about image. Yes. That that image was one of the things that we might even call it an idol or a small god, that you realized through this whole process that your identities were wrapped up in image. Unpack that a little bit.

Jae Harrel

How oh, I think you just you think that life's going to go a certain way. You think that you know what marriage is, you think you know what sex is even and as you go along in life, God reveals what he really intended it all to be. And I think for me, when I let go of what my images of the way life should be, I'm able to just see so much clear.

Jae Harrel

It's like I'm really not seeing clearly. I'm I'm seeing a foggy picture of what kind of what God wanted. And sometimes it's not even I'm like, why did I see that? That was weird. But moving over to, you know, once we surrender and we let go of the things that we hold as an image or the way our life is supposed to be God transforms that into something even more beautiful than I could have imagined because I don't think anybody imagines hardship in their life.

Jae Harrel

Like, I wouldn't wish what happened to us.

Patrick McCalla

I didn't sit on the edge of your bed as a six year old girl and dream about your future and be dreams hard things.

Jae Harrel

Are difficult for you. And you know.

Patrick McCalla

That wasn't part of your dream.

Jae Harrel

No, no, no, no. Yeah. But, you know, I'm just thankful that God knew better than me because I never would have learned. And it was all of this stuff in my childhood leading up to this moment, that destiny for my purpose and destiny. And still, to this day, every day I walk closer with the spirit. Every day I walk closer to Jesus.

Jae Harrel

I see a clear picture of what he has for us here, what he has for other people, what he wants for us to live heaven on earth. Lives live restored lives in a way that only he can provide to us.

Patrick McCalla

And that restoration. This is something that we touched on last week with Josh and that and you're you're saying it again today that restoration almost never happens without pain, does it?

Jae Harrel

No, it has to break if something's being restored, you know, and restored as used, I should know how many times it's used in the Bible because it's our favorite word. It's name on our podcast, you know, but when I think about restored things, there are things that have been beaten up, bruised, broken, scratched and made new and that was so our story.

Jae Harrel

It was we were beaten up, broken, bruised on the outside. To some people, we looked great but I have the scars to prove it. All right. I have the stretch marks to prove that I had battles in my health. I have the stretch marks to prevent battles and the babies. I you know, all of those things are so purposeful.

Jae Harrel

And the fact that God uses those imperfections to bring about something beautiful, a new creation because of him like that restoration process, it can't happen without the pain.

Patrick McCalla

And I think that's one of the biggest lies that because I have a similar story that you do in the sense that I grew up going to church, some some listeners won't know that this is going to a want to you know, you remember a woman. Yes, I want all the Power of the Month awards, which means I, I memorized.

Jae Harrel

Badges.

Patrick McCalla

I had the badges to prove that I had memorized the Bible.

Jae Harrel

That's right.

Patrick McCalla

But suddenly I saw bought into this lie that if I live a good life, I'll get a good life. Yeah. That, that's what it meant. And I don't know where in it. I mean, it sounds like that's a similar story that what you had like, you know, that, that the marriage should be perfect, the kids should be perfect.

Patrick McCalla

The, you know, the jobs going to the babies going to pay me what I deserve to get paid, all these things that but all of a sudden when you're confronted with life starts kicking you in the face and you're going, wait, why is this happening?

Jae Harrel

And then no one wants to talk about it. Yeah, right. Like you have to hide it because everybody else, especially with social media nowadays, so I feel like this is such a bigger problem than it has been maybe in the past or maybe when I was growing up. Right. But the times are changing and I run my own social media, obviously.

Jae Harrel

I think everybody does. But my goal with my social media is to be as authentic as I can. And so I just did a video last week that confused the heck out of people. I was like crying and moving through my emotions and, you know, some hard things were happening, but what was I learning through it? And I got text messages, Are you OK?

Jae Harrel

Are you OK? Mike, it's OK to cry. Y'all like it's OK to have pain. You don't realize it, but if you think that anybody is perfect you're wrong. Yeah, they're just hiding all that stuff. Yeah. And I really you know, when we were going through our therapy and I'm just kind of going through these first six months of our story and everything was very raw and open.

Jae Harrel

I remember God and I just having conversations, and I was trying to decide, should I leave him? Should I stay? You know, there really was at that point, I was like, I mean, our marriage covenant has been broken. So I have an out. I have let's go. But all I could think was I know his stuff now. I don't know the next guy's stuff.

Jae Harrel

Mm hmm. I don't know if I want to go through this again. Wow. And that realization that God and I. I really do believe it was a blessing from God that I thought that way, because I don't I do think people jump ship to new marriages and they experience the same issues, and they want why.

Patrick McCalla

They're gonna get married to another broken.

Jae Harrel

Right. And I didn't realize this at first, and this made me mad. So if it makes you mad, sorry in advance, but not sorry. A lot of my issues with Josh had to do with me and so much of it was work that I actually had to do on me. My identity and how I saw the world that was impacting our marriage.

Jae Harrel

I'm not saying I was the reason that he cheated on me or anything like that. I want to be very clear. Yeah, but there were things I needed to own on my end, just like there were things he needed to own on his end. Yeah. That provided the toxicity that was our marriage in that moment. Yeah. And to this day, having healthy marriages is the same thing where he's working his stuff.

Jae Harrel

I'm working my stuff, and we're coming together, and it's a it's a beautiful coming together. Yeah, but it's not without its work on either side.

Patrick McCalla

And going back to that word you used earlier, restoration. Restoration never happens until we get to that point, does it? Or it doesn't fully happen until we get to the point where we're willing to be completely transparent and honest. Yeah, right.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. Look, before.

Patrick McCalla

God for sure. But even before maybe some people that are really close and safe in our life.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. Well, the way I see it, there's this really great form of art called Can Suit. Have you ever heard of it?

Patrick McCalla

No.

Jae Harrel

OK, so it's amazing. OK, and what it is, is the Japanese would take broken pottery, and they actually glue it back together with gold and lace it with gold and make it a new god to look it up. Ken Suji Ah, I'm obsessed with it now. I'm going to have one. Just go to my house like.

Patrick McCalla

You were describing that because.

Jae Harrel

I feel like it's so. And when you see it, I go, look it up. I have pauses right now. Go look it up. It's amazing to see how the artwork shines and the pottery shines so much brighter after it's broken and put back together. And I feel like that's what God does with our lives, right? He he doesn't just, like, glue us back together.

Jae Harrel

He puts gold in the cracks that were once broken yep. And that image is just like, I will forever hold that because he doesn't want to just give us the bare minimum fix he wants to restore and renew and create something new.

Patrick McCalla

And don't you don't you see that when you're using that illustration? I picture though the in order for God to do that with us, we have to bring the pieces.

Jae Harrel

Totally, totally.

Patrick McCalla

That's where that transparency and honesty comes, right? Where we're saying I'm not OK with that's OK here, God, take these and fix this. But for a lot of us and I'm saying I think a lot of listeners myself you and Josh are probably well, not probably you're still on this journey to where we want to hold stuff back.

Jae Harrel

Right.

Patrick McCalla

Why why do you think that is? Why is it that we're not willing to be fully honest and transparent?

Jae Harrel

I think a lot of it is fear of, you know, like I think the voices that we're listening to are part of that right? So if you choose to listen to the voice in your head that says like and I know Josh wrestled with this a lot and I would always tell him the opposite but he was like, if I tell you about this, it's going to put so much burden on you.

Jae Harrel

And I was like, actually, it's going to lift burden from me. And isn't that how the truth and the lie is, right? It's the the truth. The third the lie is the twist. Yes. Of what the truth is. It's not all lie. Yeah. But it's just this.

Patrick McCalla

Makes us so deceptive.

Jae Harrel

That's right. That's right. But that small deception, I think we just fall for it a lot of times, and we don't give ourselves the opportunity to make the other choice. Yeah. Like, I always get this all the time as a health coach, what if I fail in my health? And, like, what about what if you succeed by trying this?

Jae Harrel

Would you give it a try? Why don't we ever ask ourselves the question?

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, we do. Go to what? What if I fail? What if I.

Jae Harrel

Fail? What if this is, you know, worst case scenario? What if it's the best thing you ever do in your life? Yeah. We need to start shifting our perspective to asking different questions. Yeah. And in that, there's so much freedom that's going to come from what we're able to do.

Patrick McCalla

You know what I love about that? Your stories and I say stories because it's both plural and and and individual, right? Yeah. It's your story, and it's Josh his story individually. What? God, was restoring in you as individuals. But then it's also your story and how he did it in your marriage as well. Right. But that's what I love about it.

Patrick McCalla

That from the outside, some people would look at this and go, OK, this was betrayal in a marriage and it brokenness and but what you you to keep bringing it back to is this like well it was issues that we were both having to wrestle through, right?

Jae Harrel

Yeah. Issues that we both had to wrestle through. And a lot of mine ended up being more of my relationship with God. Right? So me having an unhealthy relationship with my husband, I had put my husband where God was supposed to be like he was my everything. He was, you know, helping me get through all of these things.

Jae Harrel

I even though when I first went into therapy and this kind of all started to unravel, I didn't know anything at this point. I had just seen my husband was so depressed and he was so anxious and it was getting worse. I could tell. And I'm like, why is he so desolate? I don't know. I should go to therapy and try and figure this out because I'm a fixer and trying to figure things out.

Jae Harrel

And so I told my therapist, this is so funny, and I always remember this. I'm like, how can I help my husband with his depression, which is a very for those of you who know what codependency is, it's a very convenient thing to say because I can't help him with his depression. That's his issues that he has to work through.

Jae Harrel

But I thought, like, I need to help him, and I thought I could do that. Yeah. Now, it's not like I can't help him or ask good questions or I'm learning more and more now, four years later that the power that I have to help and support is actually to just ask and listen rather than tell and try and prod and poke and guide, you know, like I want to just I want to send him on the journey that and him know that I'm always going to be here.

Jae Harrel

Jae Harrel

I'd stop clinging on to food I stopped clinging on to my kids, and now I need to stop clinging on to my husband for help. And God was like, I'm here and the only person that understands you, and I'm here. When I found out that he was not just emotionally having an affair, but with another man and we were in the church and no one is talking about this.

Jae Harrel

Yeah, I had no one to talk to and no one understood me. And that same sex attraction piece is such a hard thing to talk about in the church, but I was so desperate for that, and it was like, God just met me there. He was like, I get it. Yeah, I get it. And he helped me to see clearly some of the things that maybe I'd been taught in church growing up, that maybe we're interpret someone's interpretation of how he feels about the subject.

Jae Harrel

And over the last four years just given me such a heart and giving us such a heart for really learning and understanding and seeking to understand and love and what that looks like in these scenarios so that we can be more of a voice. Because this is a if people don't think that this is an issue.

Patrick McCalla

It's going to be.

Jae Harrel

One that needs to be talked about. Yeah, exactly. I mean, our world is slowly slowly, slowly just falling more and more apart. And if we don't start talking about these issues now, I'm not saying, you know, same sex attraction is the issue but there's underlying things that cause all of our behaviors in life and their identity issues there.

Jae Harrel

They come back to the table of oh, the relationship with God is not where it needs to be. And how do we shift that? Yeah. And so going through that was just I was so grateful that I heard other women on podcast say like the work that I did on myself was the cause. I was angry at first when they said that I'm like, I don't have he hurt me.

Jae Harrel

I was in the victim mode. I, you know, I didn't want to hear any of it and but it sunk in a little bit yeah. And the more work I did on myself and the more I started to see clearer, the more I started to see the benefit of working on my own identity issues. That were so important.

Patrick McCalla

Well, and that's one of the themes that is coming out in last weeks. And this weeks with your husband in you is this is a process. It doesn't happen overnight. You don't have this honest conversation. And also the next morning, you wake up and everything's solved.

Jae Harrel

And it wouldn't have been a.

Patrick McCalla

Sexual uphill climb to the mountain peaks of life. Yes. There's more valleys that come and there's more difficult times. It's a process. But you're bringing up that identity thing again. So what for you? God was working with you with your identity issues. Josh was finding out that he had broken identity issues. What were years what were the some of the things that God revealed to you about some identity issues that you had?

Jae Harrel

So some of the identity issues like we just talked about the codependency piece, the other Aiden, the issue that I'm actually just recently learning about. So you're getting like the fresh stuff that you're well, OK, yeah. Is who did God create me to be in my purpose outside of and actually love that we're talking about this. I wasn't planning on going here, but you had us do these podcast separately.

Jae Harrel

And I was telling you before we got on Mike that I don't know if I've done a podcast.

Patrick McCalla

We were originally talking about YouTube doing it together a couple. That's how you always yeah.

Jae Harrel

And when I agree that it is powerful to have a story together and a lot of our story intertwined with each other and this year especially, I have been leaning more into what is my specific part in this and what is my specific story in this story. Because a lot of times, if I'm being honest, I kind of felt like I fell into the story because I was hurt.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. And it wasn't something I chose. But this last year especially, I feel like God's really working on the fact that he made my story restored. And it started way long ago with you know, sexual brokenness. And my past was sexually abused when I was in high school, and there was a string of that sexual abuse and what it did to my relationships with my friends and my relationships with other guys and where I found my worth and my value.

Jae Harrel

And as a 20 something year old adult who I mean, we were married very young, 20 years old, we're about to celebrate ten years, so I'm turned 30 this month and all the fun things are happening and I'm but I feel like my twenties God really showed me, you know, this is who I created you to be, this is where your worth is found and for so much of my twenties, you know, I got healthy when I was 22.

Jae Harrel

Patrick McCalla

It's painful when they start right digging out the dirt and like, yeah, yeah.

Jae Harrel

But you got to go through that process because otherwise if you leave it there and you just cover it up with a Band-Aid, it's going to get infected and it's probably going to hurt worse. And so many things in my life that I had experienced in my childhood but never talked about because I was just busy doing other things.

Jae Harrel

I played sports. I, I didn't know that I was really sexually abused in high school because I, it was a boyfriend and I just didn't consider it that way.

Patrick McCalla

Doesn't you bring up a powerful point with that because we were talking about wounds, but immediately I think a lot of listeners, we start thinking like, you know, I got scars all over my arms and stuff from different things, but it's the it's the wounds we don't see that are often the most painful. Right. So you're even talking about the sexual abuse you had.

Patrick McCalla

You didn't necessarily even know that was a wound. No, that's right.

Jae Harrel

No. Yeah. No, I had no idea. I would never have called it. You know, like I said, when I would look back at my story, I'd say, oh, nothing really bad has happened to me. I wouldn't consider myself a sexual abuse survivor. But what did happen to me? I just didn't have the language for it yet. I didn't have the knowledge for yeah.

Jae Harrel

For myself. And when I did finally have that knowledge, it was like more of the picture I got to see more of the puzzle was starting to be put together and I think that's what this process of identity is with God is a slow putting together of like, this was your intended design? Mm hmm. And over the last, you know, even seven years of working on my health, God first gave me the vision of your body, a temple.

Jae Harrel

And honestly, when I was 22 and unhealthy and £240.

Patrick McCalla

Temple.

Jae Harrel

Well, absolutely not. But I also I thought I couldn't do anything. I knew that there was a good I knew there was some greatness in me. Yeah, but it was so far down and I told myself so many lies about what that actually was and believe so many of the lies that I was told, like, you're not enough, you're, you could never do this.

Jae Harrel

You didn't make that softball team. So you could never, you could never do what you wanted to do. Yeah. And slowly in my twenties, it's been like uncovering all of these lies and seeing if they're, they're true or not and they're not. They're actually when I got healthy, I realized I have a powerful voice. And I had always wanted to be I actually wanted to be an American Idol when I was really little.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. I was like, I'm going to be American Idol. But Kelly Clarkson, something I don't even remember like American Idol at that stage. Yes. Kelly Clarkson. And I was just I had always been attracted to speaking and being on stage. And I always felt weird for that because everybody else tried to not be on the stage, but I didn't know that that was part of what God put in me.

Jae Harrel

And when I was overweight, I mean, no one wants to be on stage when they're overweight and you're pulling at your clothes and you don't feel good. Right. But when I got my body healthy, I realized I'm not thinking about myself very much anymore, and it allowed me to think about others more.

Patrick McCalla

Isn't that a pattern when we get healthy? I mean, you're talking about physically.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. But mentally.

Patrick McCalla

Physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually. When we get healthy, we start thinking less of ourselves. Yeah, right. But really, isn't that that man, that's powerful. That's a mike drop moment. Yeah.

Jae Harrel

Unlocks this potential in us that was hidden. And I think the enemy knows that. The enemy knows that our hurts and hang ups are the way to stifle the greatness that God has. And all of us have greatness in us. If you're listening to this podcast and you think, I don't have greatness in me, I resonate with you.

Jae Harrel

Like, yes, you do. You just haven't seen it yet. But once you do see it and you start to accept.

Patrick McCalla

It, why do you believe that statement? You said that everyone has greatness in them. You have. Great. Why do you believe that statement?

Jae Harrel

I believe that statement because I've seen it and someone told it to me this way and I will always remember it. Everybody has like strengths that are Jedi level, right? We've been talking about a few strengths today, but my ability to see the future, my ability to speak it's not something I have to try out. It's natural. It comes out of me and you listen to are the same way you have something that you're like.

Jae Harrel

Other people don't think this is easy. And it is. Yeah. And it's individual to you because it's designed with your purpose. In mind. You are designed. And the more I started just walking towards that narrow path instead of the wide one I started to see that I was designed that I was designed with unique things for me. And if I stop trying to be everybody else and just started to learn about me, those things got revealed.

Patrick McCalla

Wow.

Jae Harrel

And even today, what I find is the hardest thing is continually letting go of who I thought that I was, that image I had of myself. Right. And accepting because it's not always going to be easy to accept it. Mm hmm. That this is what I didn't think God had this for me. But when you choose to start stepping into that narrow path, you choose to start accepting what God has for you.

Jae Harrel

The purpose that there is there's joy and peace there that surpasses all understanding is that art?

Patrick McCalla

What's that? Japanese Say it again.

Jae Harrel

CONSUEGRA It.

Patrick McCalla

Becomes that now.

Jae Harrel

You're going to do a bunch of that you share and you're.

Patrick McCalla

Yes, you can come over some time and see all this.

Jae Harrel

Yeah, that's right. I'm like, I.

Patrick McCalla

Don't know if we can afford it, if it's gold in there, but that that is a powerful image. Well, what practical advice would you give? So so let's hear listeners and I certainly hope they are like I am sitting here going, Man, I do. I want to experience that freedom. You know, I think a Johnny, when the sun sets you free, you are free.

Patrick McCalla

Indeed. And that's tied to truth. Yeah. That whole context of the passage truth, this podcast is all about the power of choices, living on purpose for a purpose. Yeah. And all of those things are tied together. But practically speaking, if you could say, here's one or two things that we could do as listeners, what would that be that could help us start moving down that process?

Jae Harrel

I think what's really important is so we have a saying with Short Living podcast, we partner with people to help them rebuild, restore and renew themselves to the purpose that God has for their lives. Now, the reason we chose Rebuild, Restore and Renew is it comes from Isaiah 61 four. They will rebuild the ancient ruins that have been devastated for generations.

Jae Harrel

And I think the first thing you have to do is you have to rebuild. You have to recognize that you are decimated and you're broken, and you have to say that out loud. You have to say it on multiple occasions. You have to see the things that are going on in your life and and humble yourself to the point of I need you, Jesus, I can't do this on my own anymore.

Jae Harrel

And if you're not in that place or you feel like you're maybe really close or like I'm there, God will take you to your knees. Like He will take you to the devastating place so that he can help you restore it back to the new thing that he's trying to create. So rebuilding, you know, many much of my story has been rebuilding who God need me to be, not who I tried to be.

Patrick McCalla

And you'll never and he uses what you're saying, right? You'll never get to that point where you're rebuilding if you don't start with Shanghai broke.

Jae Harrel

That's exactly right. Because you can't build something without a foundation. You have to have a foundation. And God took me down as foundation where it was just me and him. That's it all. I looked around. There's no walls left. There's no I mean, our even our marriage to go back to our marriage I didn't have any concept of like past today.

Jae Harrel

It was like he could leave me tomorrow. And so I didn't focus on that anymore. I started focusing on me. I started focusing on, well, what do I have? And this is what I had. I had my relationship with God every single day, and that was it. And it was the foundation on which I rebuilt my life. And so rebuilding like what areas of your life do you need to rebuild?

Jae Harrel

Like, do you have hurts in your health that you need to? This is a huge we've talked about this. This is a huge issue in the church. And I think health needs to be talked about so much more. Right. But are you running to food for things that you should be running to God for? Yeah, I was running to food for a lot of things.

Jae Harrel

And I think many people socially, it's OK. To run to food for things like that. Cookie. It's just the bite. It's just.

Patrick McCalla

Now you're meddling into my life.

Jae Harrel

Right? Exactly. Oh, no, it's true.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah. You see that? And that's what we were talking about when we were together as couples a couple of weeks ago, where we are created as holistic beings, physical, spiritual, emotional, social, those are all tied together and if you're unhealthy physically or emotionally, it's going to affect you spiritually. Socially, we're holistic beings.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. My unhealth represented on my body when I was overweight was an outpouring of what was happening on the inside. And it wasn't, you know, I don't think health is vanity by any sense. That's why I'm a health coach and that's why I do what I do, because I want people to see that the outward appearance of what you're seeing on your body, that's just because there's stuff inside you haven't dealt with yet.

Patrick McCalla

We I just need to have you on this podcast again, and you just need to spend some time on that because that's a whole nother issue.

Jae Harrel

Right, exactly. So can be so good. That's an area that I feel like is very under utilized and it's something completely in everybody's control. And then rebuilding other pieces, you know, your emotional story. I'm just going to say this right now, everyone should do therapy in their life. Like it's just unnecessary. There's things that have happened in your life that you don't realize have caused you hurt.

Jae Harrel

Yeah, everybody's been hurt. And whether you think that you have been or not, there's such healing from digging up those wounds and letting them heal and having someone to help you put them back together. And so maybe it's therapy for you. Maybe it's, you know, recognizing that you've been putting some things in the God place that really need to not be in that place anymore.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. And those are all part of the rebuilding process. So there's the rebuilding and then there's the restoring. And I think that the restoring is only what Jesus can do now, the reason I say it's the second step for you is because we have to have that dependance on Jesus or nothing is going to happen. And there are certain pieces that only God can change in your life that we don't realize that He's the only one that can change then.

Jae Harrel

So like today, I read this scripture in Ruth and literally as I'm. Have you ever had this happen to you? Maybe haven't. Maybe I'm like outing you, but you read scripture and it just instantly gets you.

Patrick McCalla

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Jae Harrel

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Yes, yes. I just I couldn't help myself but cry because I just felt so deeply personal. I can't even say the verse. It's Ruth to go look it up. Yeah, but it was it was powerful for me to read that and have it sink in and those are just words on a paper, but they're living words.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. And when we're not connected to the word. Right, exactly. And so part of restoration is opening your fricking Bible every day. Open your Bible. Mm. What do the Bible flip if you want? Like, I don't care use the Bible out.

Patrick McCalla

Just get in.

Jae Harrel

Get in there. Yeah. Because God wants your work in your heart. Yeah. The only he can do it through his word and through other people. Let other people in. Let God use other people to restore you to him. Yeah. Because if you're surrounded by the right people, they're going to help point you to him. I always was so thankful for the people I surrounded myself with when we were going through our first year of recovery.

Jae Harrel

And healing, because I chose three to five. And at that point I really couldn't choose more than that because part of it was involved. Josh's story and then I needed to have safe people for me, and so I did. But I had three to five people that I had chose that I knew they were going to point me to Jesus and point our marriage to Jesus.

Jae Harrel

And I needed that. Yeah, because if I would have had someone saying, Yeah, leave him that is like poison that you're taking for yourself and you need all of the support and the help and God will show you what people are supposed to be in your life for a season to help with your healing. And over the last four years, it's been a plethora of people.

Jae Harrel

Everyone always asks us now. So we used to live in Oregon, now we live here in Arizona, and we have built this new community, I mean, relatively quickly we haven't even been here two years yet. And the reason we've done it is because we know the value of having people in your life to support you and come alongside you.

Jae Harrel

That live close to you. And we know how important that is moving forward. And so we wanted to make sure we had that here. And I think so many of us are we have community on social media. That's not enough. That's not the community that God designed us to be around. And that's not the community is going to be restored and work in.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. So we need the rebuilding, the work that we do and we need the restoring the work that God does if we're surrendered and open to what he has for us.

Patrick McCalla

Man, such great advice. You didn't know this, but it's really interesting when I asked Josh last week what some practical advice was and you both touched on one of the things you touched on was similar with having that that group around you that the five people who's who's at your table who's really speaking your into your life. Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

So it's interesting that you both.

Jae Harrel

Great minds think alike.

Patrick McCalla

Yes.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. And we didn't talk about anything before. I was like, I don't even know what you're going to say so.

Patrick McCalla

Well, and I think that's so important for us to understand nowadays. Again, you know, people say like, I have a thousand friends. I don't know. I liken it to I say, who's your 2 a.m. friends? Which means when all hell breaks loose in your life at 2 a.m., who do you pick up the phone and call?

Jae Harrel

Who answers?

Patrick McCalla

Yes. And Oh, that's good.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. Because that's the other thing you know, I was thinking about that the other day because we we have really great people in our life that I know that we could call on now. But I know that that number is one. Yeah. You know, compared to what it probably should be to be healthy. Right. A good and it's not like a million, right?

Jae Harrel

Like your followers are not your friends, but the friends and the people that you have in your circle, they'll rotate and then they'll also they'll be seasonal in the fact that they'll be there right as you need them. But they should be that cultivating like it should be that symbiotic relationship of you're I'm giving you so much more speaking.

Patrick McCalla

Life truth and to you.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah. Well, Jay, thank you so much. Been unbelievable. I know our listeners got a lot out of this and congratulations. I don't think you wheezed once.

Jae Harrel

I didn't.

Patrick McCalla

I don't I needed time to and you didn't we.

Jae Harrel

So I know that's impressive. Gentle laughs. Yes.

Patrick McCalla

Yes. So we finish these with two truths in a lie. The irony of what we're talking about. No gray areas. We've been talking about truth this whole time. Yeah, I'm gonna ask you to lie to me. So the the listeners have been listening to you here for 30 some minutes, and we'll see if we can figure it out to try and lie.

Jae Harrel

OK, one, I'm Canadian.

Patrick McCalla

One, you're Canadian.

Jae Harrel

Too. I've played the flute.

Patrick McCalla

Played the flute.

Jae Harrel

Three, I've dislocated my elbow.

Patrick McCalla

Dislocate ouch. OK, now see, I'm going to go with three being true because I said ouch and you said yes. Yeah, that's true. It happened to.

Jae Harrel

You.

Patrick McCalla

It is because you knew you immediately said yes, which means you knew how bad it hurt. OK, good. It and then and then one, I'm going to say.

Jae Harrel

I got to.

Patrick McCalla

Say guardian.

Jae Harrel

I mean, that's true to see I'm adorable. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Patrick McCalla

So the second one was you play the flute.

Jae Harrel

I don't play the flute.

Patrick McCalla

You don't you've.

Jae Harrel

Never played any instrument.

Patrick McCalla

With an instrument.

Jae Harrel

I know. I not great.

Patrick McCalla

I played it. I played the trombone in fourth grade for six months.

Jae Harrel

Yeah. It's a lot of air that we can.

Patrick McCalla

Small to reach the last note in the trombone. Yeah.

Jae Harrel

So, yeah, Josh is a great guitarist, though.

Patrick McCalla

Is really?

Jae Harrel

He is. And he does worship. And whenever he gets up there and does worship everyone's like, your husband has quite the voice and the mic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He does like a secret.

Patrick McCalla

And then you say, well, I played the flute, which is a lie now, right?

Jae Harrel

We know. Now we know I don't play the flute.

Patrick McCalla

Well, Jae, thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Jae Harrel

Oh, thank you for having me. It's for your honesty.

Patrick McCalla

Transparency, courage.

Jae Harrel

To.

Patrick McCalla

Share.

Host

Thank you. Thanks for listening to the No Gray Areas podcast to dove deeper into the story. Be sure to subscribe, follow us on social media and check out No Gray Areas dot com.