Todd Unger, Chief Experience Officer and SVP for Marketing and Member Experience at the American Medical Association (AMA), joins us for today's episode to cover various topics connected to organizing for customer experience, leadership, and community growth. As AMA's Chief Experience Officer, Todd is responsible for acquiring, keeping, and engaging AMA members, growing the scope and impact of AMA's mission-based work, and driving digital transformation efforts. Also, Todd manages projects that connect the product, marketing, commerce, and service to accomplish this while keeping the client at the center of all they do. 

[01:09] Background – Todd discusses his background and journey thus far and how that experience contributes to the success of his current role. 

[04:06] Todd's Role – Todd outlines how he combines the traditional customer experience role and the digital marketing community in AMA. 

[09:18] Factors Behind the Growth - Todd discusses the main elements that influence the growth of the medical field and practice.

[14:52] Benefits of Merging – Todd gives an astounding description of the benefits of integrating several disciplines they experience at AMA.

[19:13] Challenges – Serving a variety of audiences is not a simple endeavor. Todd discusses the difficulties inherent in the model AMA is embracing.

[24:21] AMA COVID-19 Update – Todd talks about the podcast that they produce at AMA. 

[24:45] Inspiration – Being part of AMA's inspirational work, Todd shares his sources of motivation.

Resources:

Connect with Todd:

Website: ama-assn.org/

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/toddunger1/

Podcast: ama-assn.org/about/publications-newsletters/ama-podcasts

Welcome to be customer lad, where we'll explore how leading experts in customer and employee experience are navigating organizations through their own journey to be customer led and the accidents and behaviors of lawyers and businesses exhibit to get there. And now your host of Bill's staikos.

For over 170 years. So our really important organization, in the, in the U S but in the medical field overall, Todd, thank you so much for coming on the show. Super

[00:01:08] Bill Staikos: Absolutely. So, Todd, I just kind of given what you're doing and your role.

I mean, a lot of what we're gonna talk about is how does. I set up organizationally for success. You've got a really expensive remit at the AMA love what you're doing and how you're bringing things together. And I think our listeners are going to be absolutely floored when we have this conversation. but just a little bit of background and context, like how did you get into this space?

And like, what is your journey been? Well,

And then, plastic products made by my glad, that is where I had my first like big product invention. Glad where plastic containers. Change my life. That's crazy. That's awesome. but that's where I just, I was really excited about product development and it brought a lot of streams together for me. And I've wanted to do that in this wacky new space called digital, which at the time, which is called internet or whenever it was one of my bosses at Leo Burnett said, it's the worst decision I ever made in my life was to go to America online, which is what it was called at the time.

And that was the beginning of what I'll call, my digital product management. role and general management in terms of websites. and I did that, and then various and sundry media properties in New York media and gaming. And then I transitioned to kind of phase three, which I'll call commerce.

And although it was in a very different space than I'm in now, it was in horse racing with the daily racing forum. If you've ever been a horse frustrates, you've seen. Yeah, newspapers people pouring through the numbers. Well, that's like a really interesting digital data subscription, digital betting platform, premium content, operation where all these things, because they're a lot of them are new or starting to.

So I didn't plan how that happened, but everything that I had done up to that point really prepared me for the chief experience officer role at the AMA. because well, the context of a lot of the things that I do are very, very different physicians, obviously very different audience, the underlying work and what I've come to think of that.

Experience, relies on all those things that I've done. It's hard to kind of make that up.

And I think a lot more are following that model. In fact, the organizations that are. Probably more ahead of the curve in their maturity, perhaps from a broader CX perspective are bringing all these disciplines together and working with them in an interesting way. So, can you just help the, just kind of go a little bit, if you can, just a little bit of detail for the listeners, how you're doing that and how you're bringing that up.

And so this is five years ago. so I had to make one up that I thought really was relevant for this stage day and age. And I call it the seamless integration of product marketing, commerce, and service to grow and retain customers. So I put that out on LinkedIn as my, on my third anniversary page on what I'd learned.

And most people agreed. I've seen some new definitions coming from other, other places that have a lot in common with that. But to me, that's what constitutes experience these days. Yeah. And while I didn't have all of those elements in place, when I first arrived at the AMA I do now. And, with, obviously I don't oversee our mission up areas.

They're just doing, they're doing great work and I rely on them to do that. And my, my job is to make sure people know about it and engage with it. I've never really had that, all those levers in place. And now that I do, I really appreciate it because. You can see how it drives growth and when all those pieces are not in place together, there's just so much friction.

And so I think that, that learning comes because in a digital world, I would say experience has been redefined. And, relative to where I was at Proctor and gamble, where, people think of like that funnel and people, you proceed sequentially through awareness and interest in trial.

It's a lung, this long journey, what I say? Now I call it, what I say is it's the 10, second customer journey. And the theme song was written by Ariana Grande's and it's I see it. I like it. I went and I got it. Right. That's what it is. You have this like thing pops in your mind, you might've thought it was your own, but it's probably a 70% controlled by algorithms.

And then you, you start that exploration process and you can be from like ideation to completion in 10 seconds and any. Along that way, that throws just little obstacle is so costly. It can delay or just eliminate because people's attention spans are so it's, don't have a lot of time. And so if I can't complete the transaction from Reese idea to research, to commerce, to completion and that little increment of time that I have you,

Is is talked a lot about, and I think it's just been so heightened over the last 18 months or so, but to that point, though, There are a lot of organizations in their rush to digital. There's just a lot of just digital, just like tech debt out there. Right. as well, like they weren't thoughtful as much.

They just got the kind of product out there. The fact that an organization like the AMA has been doing this and was ahead of that curve and bring all these organizations or disciplines and functions together. Rather, you guys are just well ahead and it clearly shows. You guys are serving 250,000 members, plus right over 270,270.

[00:07:50] Bill Staikos: When you think about that growth in the, what, what, how are you thinking about the core tenants of experience from that perspective?

I really love the, the Ariana Grande's reference and that sort of like the ten second, the kind of the ten second rule. If I can, we can call it that you should call it that actually trademark that. But,

And I said, I'm stealing that I have stolen. Oh, good

Yeah, I think

And then you might get just like a, stream of complaints. Why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you doing that? And I'm like, we're doing that. You don't know that. Well, there's a reason cause we never told anybody. It was a very old kind of the model had not caught up with digital in terms of how we were putting out that information in terms of membership was primarily a direct mail operation and there was.

connection between that day. I signed up in the day I was asked to renew, all right. And the digital platform and it particularly through content is how we've created an experience that lasts. People, reaches them in every day. Basically our audience. Now I always say there are also other core tenants.

Developing a compelling proposition for this audience and delivering. And then I will say there are the there's the under the hood part of the work here, which is you are competing, as everybody knows with every other, digital convenience operation out there. Which is not a term was used five years ago, better work.

And so all of the mechanics and the infrastructure and the non-sexy things, that constitute the commerce funnel right now from your, your sign-up operation, customer service, self service to the site, everything, and the way that you measure everything has got to work. And then there's the, the stuff that sits on top of it.

That's the stuff that everybody sees that is. Grounded in best practices of today's consumer marketing has got to sit on top of that and they all got to work together. Like, I'm sure you've done this thing where you, like, obviously you are what you search for today. And so like, of course you see something in your Instagram feed or whatever, and you click on that and where that takes you is just so important and what it says.

Yeah there and how easy it is to move from there. Because again, you've got that split-second experience. I was telling my team, like, if you haven't communicate, you can't communicate on that next page. And one mine in three bullet points and cause someone to click on whatever that action is. You're done.

Just start over.

I'm with you a hundred percent. I keep going back to feature differences.

Right. So, that's why your feed is filled with things you like, because they know what you're looking at. So now you're just surrounded by all these things that you like. So. What do you got to do? Today's environment. You got to be something someone likes and that they're interested in. Everybody likes it and wants to know more about, so that's I never thought I would be in like, thinking of this, like an enthusiast audience, but it.

Yeah. And

[00:12:42] Todd Unger: Right. If somebody has got a prime, you're looking at suit supply. I mean, I just don't have a personal

Like what, what are you noticing with numbers?

Yeah, many of we've talked about, it starts with a clear understanding of your target audience and the development of a compelling consumer proposition that sits under it. And I would say neither of those things were fully understood or, or elaborated upon arrival and it takes a while to get there. So in our field, like there's somebody in, in any company, there's a mission.

Right, but that's not the same as a consumer proposition, which is what we do versus what we do for you. That's how I eventually got to explain it. And so, we got to this set of words, the physicians, powerful ally in patient care, where every word of that is chosen. And then we have supporting proposition for that.

And then the model. It was about demonstrating that and the, the channels that underlied, that then started to come together. And I would say, what we noticed over the course of time is like, it's those handoff. Between like the proposition to target definition. There are some aspects of that, of the operation that we kind of owned in my team, like email, they didn't own in terms of website and content development.

And. Measure what impact that has in terms of the handoffs. And it became apparent that putting all those things together in one place was a, a much more efficient engine and people responded and you can see it, you see it in the numbers and you can quantify every step along the way. And then there's the fun stuff, which is really bringing the member forward.

And that started with like, just celebrating. Celebrating them. And we started this campaign called membership moves medicine. We used a celebrity photographer to start photographing physicians. We eliminated stock photography and all of our marketing materials. Awesome. you would go into like, one of our two big meetings and see, a 40 foot poster of a physician looking like what they are, which are heroes.

And all of a sudden, I say sometimes, like, I don't think people actually saw. Except by that these meetings, they weren't in the hallway on these pictures and they weren't in our materials and they weren't on the website and bringing that forward and making that tangible is a huge change. And now it's led us to, the next part of this, which is like, is amplifying their voices above the misinformation and other sources.

scientific and medical advice. We'll put that in quotation marks and people are getting, it's a bigger, bigger,

Right of, of the benefits. What challenges may be has that created, right? Cause you guys serve multiple different audiences, not just physicians. You've got physicians, residents, students, state, and specialty societies, et cetera. Like, it's, it's one and a half million physician. There's two and a half, 250,000 members like plus everyone in that ecosystem that you're engaging.

What types of challenges are inherent in that model? Not just sort of the benefits of bringing that together too.

Absolutely. so we, we represent offices. We represent all residents, all medical students member or not. And, the challenges, there at every aspect of that, which is understanding that just like everyone out there, not all physicians are the same and they don't, they're not interested in the same things.

They don't want to be engaged with them the same way. And so segmentation driven by data was a major, major revelation for us in terms of how we communicate. With our audience. And so, there was a lot of blocking and tackling the basic marketing realm to overcome. the second thing is like this organization.

Does so much great work. And so we have operations that focus on improving people's health outcomes, like in hypertension or diabetes, we have major initiatives. And, when I say reducing obstacles, which are a huge one right now is physician burnout and the area of wellness, we have advocate.

Initiatives right now, where, things are happening all over the place that are, are not good for medicine that we have to speak with a unified voice for, and things like health equity, where we are really trying to reduce disparities in the outcomes of health and make sure people have optimal health for everybody.

So the. A lot going on now, how do you knit that all into one message so that when somebody sees one line in three bullet points, that's a challenge, but we found that some of it's through good old fashioned listening and data supported by digital. Awesome. So that's, I think when you think about the pandemic.

Which has been, just a horrible, horrible experience and defining experience for, for everyone. And, think about, what physicians have gone through and something like this. This, I think has been a defining moment for this organization because we could bring it under a stream and say, what does it mean to be a physician's power family and patient care in the middle of a pandemic?

Well, here's what it means. And then the whole organization kind of pulls together. And delivers that, and that is one message, not eight. So that's, the, the challenge that we operate with.

but we're still going through it and. Whether you're in a hospital or you're in some other kind of medical facility, you're living this in so many different ways inside and outside of that location. It's amazing. The work that you guys are doing,

And, that to me, it's been another aspect of. Listening, putting members at the center, amplifying physician voices. We restarted that out, because it was hard to get the word out about everything that was happening and think back to March of 2020, whatever year that was. I can't remember. But, so we said, let's, let's start this.

Like we're not expert producers. Yeah, I'm not a television host, but we were scrapping and we did it and it's evolved over the course of the time, to millions of views on it, expanded into, content, digital content and podcasts. And listen, I'm going to tell you what, when you get to talk to a physician every day, About what they're going through and tell that story to an audience.

It changes you like there's no focus group, no research survey that does what really hearing from someone about their story, what they're trying to do. And see, the thing, people say, physicians have a calling, like, why else would you get in this? And like be around sick people in emergency room, like during a pandemic it's because you have a calling to do this work.

And boy, I don't know of another job where people throw so much at you to get in the middle of that as being a doctor. And so it is just dramatically increased my appreciation for everybody at this field. And I hope that by letting them tell their stories and being that platform for them, that. How others have that sense of appreciation.

So I, so

[00:21:10] Todd Unger: obviously, but, so, it's funny. It was, we had, did have something called the AMA COVID-19 update. We thought we were going to transition out of that. Back in June that did not happen.

So we still have that going. And now our other kind of eventual thing that we're doing in parallel is called AMA moving medicine, where you get to hear actual experts, not the ones that think they're experts, but people who actually know what they're talking about, talking about medicine and healthcare and our movers and shakers in that field.

So. Find that out@ama-assn.org slash podcasts. you can see all those finalists on our YouTube channel, Spotify, apple podcasts, wherever you listen to yours. I think I have it down at this point where you think

It will give you new perspective and meaning of what's happening around us, right. in a major way. So, Todd, one, one question that, I want to ask and give. How you all are far ahead of the maturity curve on this, where do you see the discipline evolving and going? Right? Like there's so much noise out there.

CX is dead, blah, blah, blah. I don't clearly it's not happening where you are. And I think that you all are getting it right. In terms of, pulling the pieces together. Like what's your perspective on how that Amal might evolve and come together further?

The discipline of CX the tool. The measurement and the goals are there and they're becoming more sophisticated. And I think you can see that out in the field right now. I think the change is coming in terms of how it's been defined and it's become more expansive and through the power of what has happened with digital transformation, the ownership and center of CX is shifting.

I also see it as. the goals have not have not been clearly articulated. And I think it's much more compelling if you say the grow, the goal of CX is growth, because I think a lot of CX has been like in the measurement intermediary terminology that people are like sometimes not compelled to invest in, but I'll tell you what they invest in.

They invest in. A hundred. So, what I see out there right now is a realignment of where CX lives. And it's probably aligning more on the growth side where people are having. Seamless experience. I'll tell you one quick, funny story. I did see somebody, I was at a conference and I saw somebody get up and talk about, their CX operation, which was a standalone operation.

And they went through kind of a case study of something they're doing, which was like the welcome journey and about all the measurement and what they should send out and about. Why is that sitting in a separate CX group? If I were like, I'm trying to generate and retain members and like there's some other group out there doing that.

Like that's, that's friction. Yeah, it is. And so someone has to sit on top of that operation and make sure all the seamless parts of it are working together. And that's not necessarily an executive position. Is defined that way right now. I think it's an evolution and you're seeing aspects of it in cm.

chief marketing officer, chief experience officers and chief growth officers. COO's like we haven't caught up yet, but I think every organization is going to have to move to a place where CX is built into the fabric of the growth of.

Right. Cause you're just embedding CX into the fabric then that way. Right. And everyone's aligning towards this constant, or this model around growth. I've always been an advocate of when I'm talking to new CX leaders or others in the marketplace. I always had three goals. And whenever I talked to a CEO, I wouldn't say my job here is to increase satisfaction or improve MPS and loyalty, all good stuff.

That will be a result, but I'm here to drive growth. I'm here to find and drive efficiencies in this organization. I'm here to make it a better place. Like, if you can't write. And I love that the growth one is really important and I would, over-index on growth a hundred percent because it's a much better rallying cry than Bill's here to cut, cut head count, or like make us more efficient in some way.

But like, as you say,

so I think you're absolutely right.

And, in particular, where do you go for

I finally had to stop myself basically, cause like, I didn't want to bother like my team, like on the weekends, but like I'm just a constant source of ideas and they come from all over the place. And I think the key thing that. Yeah, develop over time as the ability to synthesize a lot of inputs and come up with an idea out of that.

And I'll give you a great example of this, because of like the kind of contact that I get to have with our members every day and see what they're doing and the way my team has just delivered during this pandemic, I'm very, very moved by the plight of this community against misinformation and.

I started thinking about this idea of how do we amplify physician voices. And through, I get to talk with this physician, Peter Hotez, you'd probably see them all over the place. And I was like, or even Dr. Mike, who's like the big YouTube doctor. Right. and this idea of science and storytelling has been knocking around in my noggin for awhile.

And it finally came together. And this idea of science and storytelling, how to make physician voices, the loudest in the room, the inspiration is you get it in that idea. But then to see it like brought to life by the things that, the people on my team do and what these physicians have to say and how they pull together and how we can really build a platform to confront whatever.

It's one of the greatest problems facing this country right now. It's I get a kick out of that, just the, just like I got a kick from seeing that, that display container I built for Procter and gamble in the grocery aisle, number nine, 25 years ago. So there you go.

Thank you so much again for coming onto the show. Love the work that you are doing clearly having an impact and, and obviously the wonderful work that the AMA is doing for its community. Thank you for all you guys are all doing every day. So it's been a lot of fun. Thanks for coming on the show,

Thanks for letting us tell this story. I really,

[00:29:09] Todd Unger: for listening to be customer led with bill staikos. We are grateful to our audience for the gift of their time. Be sure to visit us@becustomerled.com for more episodes.

Leave us feedback on how we're doing or tell us what you want to hear more about until next time we're out.