Artwork for podcast Diary of a Recovering People Pleaser
Wedding Planning, Five Brothers and Friendship Breakups: A People Pleaser's Journey with Megan
Episode 18 • 16th October 2024 • Diary of a Recovering People Pleaser • Jenny Leckey
00:00:00 00:37:58

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In this episode of Diary of a Recovering People Pleaser, Jenny explores the journey of overcoming people pleasing with this week's guest, Megan. You’ll hear from Megan about how she navigated the challenges of planning her wedding amidst family expectations and social pressures. She talks about how people pleasing played a role in her wedding planning experience - and how she handled some difficult conversations!

They discuss the role that anxiety plays in people pleasing and how to manage it.

Jenny shares practical techniques like meditation to manage anxiety and set boundaries. If you're looking to start meditating - she walks you through two mantra meditations that you can start with.

Additionally, they discuss the emotional complexities of friendship breakups, balancing personal happiness with external pressures, and how our childhood experiences shaped our people pleasing habits (especially Megan, who grew up with 5 brothers!)

Plus, a mini book talk in the middle since we are both avid readers!

Books Mentioned:

About the Guest

Megan Heimbueger

I’m a pet sitter and artist!

About the Host

Interested in being a guest? Email Jenny: info@meditatewithjenny.com

  • Work with Jenny - Book 1:1 Reiki or psychic channeled reading sessions. Offered virtually or in person in Buffalo, NY. Jenny also offers Reiki certification classes!

Copyright 2024 Jenny Leckey LLC

Transcripts

Speaker:

I love that you love dogs and I love dogs

and we both pet sit and it's awesome.

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I think that's so cool.

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What a common ground and

who doesn't love dogs?

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My two little sausage dogs are so cute.

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They're so cute.

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They're my babies.

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How old are they?

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Six and four.

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Oh my goodness.

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I can't believe it.

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It makes me sad.

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Just in the blink of an eye too.

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It does.

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I got my golden as a

puppy and he's now eight.

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I'm like, how did that happen?

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I put a collage together

the other day of my dog.

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She's becoming so gray.

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And that moment I was sad and I

was like, what a privilege it is to

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watch them grow old, it's so true.

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Yeah.

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I remember seeing something online too,

where they said, take your dogs out and

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enjoy it because they only have a limited

amount of summers and they spend them

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all with you And I was like don't make

me cry Why are you doing this to me?

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My and like when you're walking a

dog when they're sniffing let them

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sniff because it gives them so much

Serotonin and they only have so many

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walks and oh, yes, that's so true.

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Be present.

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Yeah.

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Important question, do

you dress your dogs up?

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Because I do.

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I sometimes do.

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She has some Halloween costumes.

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Nice.

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They're very good.

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What's your favorite outfit for your dogs?

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If we're going with Halloween costumes,

I have the UPS delivery person costume.

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That's so good.

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Which is hilarious.

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And the pirate costume,

which makes me laugh.

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Oh, they don't like the hats,

but it makes me chuckle.

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It's always a hat.

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Anything else will tolerate.

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My dogs have an Instagram.

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Oh my gosh, why am I not following it?

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I'm just relying on the personal page.

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I know.

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Oh.

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Screw the humans, let's see

the four legged awesome babies.

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The good stuff, get to the gold, yeah.

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I have like fancy coats for my dog.

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Yeah.

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Like in the winter, especially because

the snow just gets in her fur and she's

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soaked, so like, why not cover her up?

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Oh yeah, that's so sweet.

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Yeah.

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Double purpose.

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When we're not trying to please

our animals, we're also pleasing

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people and that's what we're

here to talk about today.

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I don't mind being a doggie pleaser.

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Yeah.

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Cause they're just there

for you, but goes both ways.

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As far as humans go, yeah, that's

what we're going to dive into today.

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How about you tell us a

little bit about yourself?

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My name is Megan.

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I obviously have two dogs.

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I have a golden and a

chow lab mix named Keela.

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And I live with my partner,

Michael of almost five years.

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Awesome.

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Yeah.

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We have an orange and yellow

kitchen, which I think is something

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that speaks very loudly about

me of who I am as a person.

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Just cause it's so fun.

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Yeah.

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Life is too short not to have fun.

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I have five brothers and a lot and I'm

tting married in September of:

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Yeah.

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Congratulations.

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Which is mostly what I, like, when I

saw your Instagram post, it was what I

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was like, Oh, I, this is what I have.

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Cause it's just been on my mind,

this entire process of planning.

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Wow.

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I also work weddings too.

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So I work for like a photo booth.

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Oh, gotcha.

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So you see all different kinds of things.

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I'm sure.

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Oh, absolutely.

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And I think you see what you

do and don't want when you're

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planning your own wedding, too.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah, so definitely gave me like

the inside scoop going from behind

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the curtain, yeah, exactly.

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Yeah.

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Jumping from there, you already

hinted at what brought you here today.

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You're talking about your connection

with people pleasing in your wedding.

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How what's going on?

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I Think that with any wedding

you find people just want to have

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their own opinions about your day

Which is so interesting to me.

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They just push their opinions on you . My

mom I'm the youngest of those five boys,

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so I'm the only girl . For her, it was her

dream to just have me have the big wedding

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and do all the things and that just,

I'm very introverted in a sense where I

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don't like to be the center of attention.

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My partner doesn't really either.

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So we decided early on if we were going

to have a wedding, it'd be very small.

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With my mom, so grateful, love her

to death, mom, if you're listening.

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But I think she had to grieve that a

little bit, like that process of grieving.

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Just realizing that the child that you've

raised, isn't the person that you expected

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them to be and being okay with that.

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I think that was definitely a process

for her, but in trying to people

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please her, I was like, Why don't

I have the wedding that I want?

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I'll also give her the wedding

that she wants cause she was very

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upset about it and kept having

these conversations with me.

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So to please her, I went down to Pearl

street, which I love Pearl street so much.

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And we did the quote, we did the

walkthrough, the tour, everything

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picked out, like the plan that I

would do for my wedding and It came

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to be about 8, 000, which is crazy.

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And that's like the low

end of weddings nowadays.

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Which blows my mind.

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It's crazy.

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It's none of it makes sense.

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After this whole walkthrough,

I really had to sit down with

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myself and say, what do I want?

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What does my partner want?

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What do I want?

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And why are we doing this?

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Wow.

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That's really good because I

don't think people, a lot of times

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are mindful during that process.

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Oh, absolutely.

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I think, especially with people pleasing,

someone will ask you something to do

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something and right away you just want

to tell them yes or give them an answer.

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And I think stepping back really helps

to evaluate who are you doing this for?

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It's like the first question

you should ask yourself.

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Does it align with the

person that you want to be?

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Yeah.

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Power therapy.

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And then side note with that too.

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I think if you've been people

pleasing for so long, when you

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ask yourself, what do I want?

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I think that's a hard question because you

don't know what you want because you've

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wanted what other people have wanted.

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Absolutely the entire time.

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So it sounds simple, but that

actually can be somewhat of an

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uncomfortable, painful process at first.

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Absolutely.

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I think also with a lot of people

pleasing, I get so in my head about it.

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With anxiety, I'm always thinking about

upsetting people, or having them be

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upset with me, and what is their reaction

going to be if I set this boundary?

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And I think it's really helpful to take

myself out of that because half of the

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time, it's not what you're expecting.

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I saw this meme and it was a

list of things I worried about

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that, they ended up being fine.

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So you worry about so much and you worry

about people's expectations of you.

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Even if they're upset, if they

loved you and they want the best

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for you, they would understand.

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And I think that's something

definitely to remind yourself of.

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to add on to that I always remind myself-

everyone is their own sovereign being.

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They have their own

emotional guidance system.

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They have their own ability to

emotionally regulate themselves.

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So it's not my job to manage someone's

emotions, to regulate it for them.

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And then that's self

centered in a way too.

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Who am I to say how they should feel if

I want to get philosophical with it,

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sometimes you have to get uncomfortable to

grow and change and learn about yourself.

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So maybe I'm supposed to be the one

who says this to someone to trigger

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a thought or an emotion to then bring

something to the surface for them to heal.

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Yeah.

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And have growth themselves.

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Yeah, at least that's what I

tell myself when I start to

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try to spiral anxiety- wise.

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Oh, for sure.

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We're all adults, and I think that, like

you said, we're all going through our own

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journey and we all have our own guidance

and rules that we make for ourselves and

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our own emotions, and you can't control

how somebody else reacts, but you can

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control how you react to that situation.

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Is there a moment in your life where you

realized you were people pleasing or is

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it just something that happened gradually?

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I think it was burnout.

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I think I was working like four

jobs at one point and it was

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just getting to be too much.

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It got to a point where it was

like, is the money worth it?

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Am I putting myself first?

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And then, Oh, am I letting these

people down by saying that I can't do

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this role at this position anymore?

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And I think that I was like, Oh, I'm

people pleasing this entire time.

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And I'm doing this to make other

people happy when I'm miserable

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and I'm suffering from this.

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there was definitely a moment

I was sitting on my couch.

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I was sobbing.

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And my partner he said to

me, why are you doing this?

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What are you doing this for?

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And I really didn't have a good

answer because it wasn't for me.

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That was when I started

putting myself first.

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And I knew with this whole

wedding situation, I was going

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to have to put myself first too.

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How did you feel about that when

it first started the process then?

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Interesting.

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Cause it felt like I

was going into a battle.

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Yeah.

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How so?

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I had to prepare myself for, especially

my mom, just to really , guard my heart.

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I would say just to not let anything get

to me and to realize where she was coming

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from, to understand her thought process

in everything that she had dreamed of.

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I also think with having a small wedding,

there's a lot of people pleasing.

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We're doing a five hours

away in the Adirondacks

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and we've gotten a lot of backlash about

that, like people who aren't invited.

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People will ask me straight up,

can I be invited to your wedding?

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Wow.

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Really?

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I know.

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I know.

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And that takes some nerve.

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That is like the opposite of people.

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A people pleaser would

be like, Oh, it's okay.

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Saying no is the hardest

thing for a people pleaser.

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Yeah.

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I just don't want to make anybody upset.

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How do you handle it when someone tries to

insert themselves into your wedding plans?

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Even the invite list,

not even the planning.

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I really just reassure Oh, we're

having a very small wedding.

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We already have the guest list.

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We would love to celebrate

with you another time.

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Perfect.

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Did you plan ahead of time of

what you were going to say to

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people or did someone hit you?

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That's definitely the anxiety part.

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I had to think of everything that

someone would say to me and what I

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would respond back, which is, It's so

tiring to be in your own head, it is.

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So you mentioned about the guest list.

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Yeah.

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And people inviting themselves.

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How about your wedding?

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You said it's distance.

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You're traveling there.

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Is it a kids free wedding or?

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Yeah, and I think that's been

one of the biggest struggles too.

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That's a whole other I feel

like power lifting of people

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pleasing recovery right there.

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Yeah Dealing with what you're

dealing with this wedding Especially

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if you're having to tell people

that their kids aren't invited.

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You are in the people

pleaser recovery Olympics.

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I'm in the trenches.

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You are.

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this is like a triathlon here.

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How do you handle the kid thing?

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I think it's the hardest part of

this whole situation other than

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really advocating for a small wedding

which that plays into no kids.

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When I, obviously, I think I mentioned

I work weddings for my brother's company

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Seeing things that I didn't want and

children was a thing that I didn't want.

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Just because in my perspective there's

nothing for kids to do at a wedding.

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They get bored.

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They get restless.

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They get, just crazy.

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Yeah.

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And we're having a three

night, four day wedding.

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And I think that's especially

another layer of how hard it's been.

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It's definitely upsetting for some people

and that's obviously not our intention.

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We just really want to handpick

the people that we want to choose

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to be there on our special day.

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Yeah.

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But it was in our heads.

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It was one or none.

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You have to have all or none.

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Is a better way to put it.

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You're always going to

hurt somebody's feelings.

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So how did you literally handle it?

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What did you say to people?

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And then what did you do within

yourself to manage the tension that

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arose when you disappointed someone?

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It's probably the same way that

I put it where people would

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try to invite themselves to our

wedding of I love your kids.

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I love them.

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They're a part of our family

and I do want to celebrate them.

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I just don't think that this is the

place to celebrate and celebrate

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at a different time to give them

another option and to compromise.

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Compromising is a huge thing with

people pleasing and being a good person.

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And yeah, like you said, you

can still do good things and

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compromise and meet in the middle.

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To really help myself gear up for that.

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Really reminding myself, I have

to pull myself out of my own head.

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These people may be upset, they

have their own emotions, they have

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a right to their own emotions.

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How do I react to that?

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It's reminding myself that

we'll only be married once.

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This is the event that we want.

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And Just thinking about

what the end result will be.

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Will I be happy if I compromise on this?

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That's huge.

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Do you journal this or do you literally

think about it or talk it out loud?

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Thinking about it helps.

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I only really journal when it's like

big things in my life, but I think

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I need to start a little bit more.

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Getting that out is so important.

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I was talking in therapy about, it was

my wrists, I was talking about my wrists

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of how they bother me sometimes and my

therapist was like, just say it out loud.

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Oh, I'm really focusing on my wrist today.

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And I did that and I was like,

Oh, it's so nice to just not be

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stuck in your own head anymore.

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it's such a silly little thing that you

wouldn't think about, but it's so free.

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Maybe this isn't a healthy thing, but

I always think about I go worst case.

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I'm like what happens if I forget this

reminder and I don't do this if I'm

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going to be okay Will life move on?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Will I live?

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I will be fine Will it maybe suck to

have to deal with the consequences?

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Maybe but Same with people pleasing.

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If I say this to this person,

they get really pissed off.

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Am I going to survive it?

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I've survived every other

hard conversation I've had.

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So exactly.

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Yeah.

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Do I want drama?

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No.

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Do I expect it?

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I hope not, but exactly.

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Hope that we can all be adults,

if that problem arises, how

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are we going to deal with it?

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And the sun will rise again tomorrow.

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Yeah, that's always helpful.

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If something goes wrong and somebody's

upset, it'll be okay in the end.

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Sometimes with that, I'll

do like a giant zoom out.

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I will zoom out all the

way into outer space.

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Sometimes it helps to look at a

picture of earth being this tiny

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dot in the middle of the universe.

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And you're like, this

literally doesn't matter.

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It doesn't matter.

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We're all these tiny people on a big

rock in space, . None of this matters.

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Yeah, in five years will matter

in five months and five weeks.

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Yeah, exactly and not in a

pessimistic way No way exactly.

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Why is this such a big deal?

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Yeah life is so short for things to be

such a big deal .You have to keep moving.

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It's always growth.

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It's always progress and

we're always learning,

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The other day I was at breakfast

with my parents and I was talking

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about the podcast launch party.

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And then I'm also, I don't

know why I did this to myself.

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I'm launching a podcast.

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And then two weeks later, I'm doing

my first weekend long Reiki retreat.

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Like, why am I, what am I doing?

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But I was talking through my

process in my mind about stages

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of planning for all of this.

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And then I was talking about,

okay, but if this goes wrong,

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then I got this to back it up.

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And then I thought about this scenario

and I have to tell myself that if no one

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comes to the launch party, I'll be fine.

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And if this many people come, I

have to manage my emotions.

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And my dad just looked at

me and I was like, what?

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What you don't think like this

dad and he's no, he looked

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like a deer in headlights.

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Yeah.

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Almost like I was a little crazy and I

was like, welcome to inside my brain.

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Welcome.

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It's so interesting that people

who don't experience anxiety.

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All right.

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My partner, I'll be like, Oh, do you

know what we're doing for Thanksgiving?

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And he was like, I'm not planning

for the end of the week yet.

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What are you doing?

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And I'm just so inside my head, I have

to know what's going on at all times.

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Yeah.

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And just spiraling that way.

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But yeah, it's so interesting where

people just don't think of every

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avenue and they're in the present.

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I would love, I'm trying

to be more in the present.

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That's something I'm working towards.

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Meditation has really helped me.

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I definitely, I love meditation.

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Yeah.

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Like consistently I know it sounds

weird, but I can tell that it's

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rewired my brain because I don't have

patterns like I used to, or if they

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rear their ugly head, I can sense it.

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Whereas before it was just how I was.

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Yeah.

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So I don't know if that's better

or worse because now I can like

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really tell what I'm anxious.

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Whereas before it was just

a constant state of being.

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It just happened.

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Yeah.

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So now I think it feels worse when I get

anxiety because then I'm like, damn,

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I know it doesn't have to be this way.

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Do you stop yourself and then meditate

as you're starting to feel that?

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Sometimes or breath work or just

bringing myself into the present moment.

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Using my five senses, just

make myself empty my brain and

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just observe without labeling.

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That's a big one from Eckhart Tolle

taught me that in the power of now.

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I remember doing this for the

first time and I remember sobbing.

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I don't know why.

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I think it was just such an

relief emotional release.

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Yeah.

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To just observe.

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I was outside on my porch and looking

at I'm labeling it for you, but , the

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trees, the birds, what I was hearing

when I was seeing, smelling all

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that tasting, but not giving it

any label just, ooh, that is there.

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Not even, yeah, it's hard to explain.

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No, I like that a lot though.

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It empties your brain and it

brings you fully in your body.

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Yeah, and not labeling.

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Yeah, I really like that.

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I'll have to try that out next time.

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Because anxiety is the opposite.

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It's let me label every single thing.

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Every situation, every scenario.

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Interesting.

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:

I'm sure it's not just Eckhart, I

think that's a pretty common thing,

404

:

but that's where I learned it from.

405

:

I've never heard of that though.

406

:

I'm surprised.

407

:

So technically that's a form of

meditation because you're emptying

408

:

your mind and being present.

409

:

Yeah.

410

:

Though type of meditation I'm

trained in, and that has really

411

:

changed me was mantra meditation.

412

:

Because your brain's going to brain,

you're going to think thoughts.

413

:

Absolutely.

414

:

So giving yourself a Sanskrit mantra

to focus on, is taking control

415

:

of your brain back and saying, no

brain, we're focusing on this now.

416

:

Nope, nope, we're focusing on this now.

417

:

So at least it gives your

brain something to latch on to.

418

:

Yeah.

419

:

To pull yourself out of the

thought loops and into this moment.

420

:

An easy one to start with is hum.

421

:

It means I am that I am.

422

:

It's connecting to your truest self.

423

:

Oh, I like that a lot.

424

:

So forget I told you

that and just say so hum.

425

:

But I love Kritajna Hum

("Krit-ah-nah Hum").

426

:

Oh, to me, it's like a lullaby.

427

:

It feels like an ocean

wave, the vibration of it.

428

:

It means I am gratitude.

429

:

Oh, that's lovely.

430

:

When you're practicing mantra meditation,

you're using it because of the

431

:

vibrational frequency of the mantra.

432

:

So "Krit-ah-nah Hum", the vibration it

makes in your body is the equivalent

433

:

of the energy of feeling gratitude.

434

:

If that makes sense.

435

:

It does make sense.

436

:

Yeah.

437

:

It's like how you feel in your

body with saying gratitude.

438

:

When you chant "Krit-ah-nah

Hum", it's the equivalent.

439

:

So it's activating that in you a

little metaphysical for you there.

440

:

I love that though.

441

:

Yeah.

442

:

You can chant them out loud, but

most of the time you're saying it

443

:

silently in your mind, almost like

you have a song stuck in your head.

444

:

I really like that.

445

:

I like the way that sounds too.

446

:

Do you want to try saying it?

447

:

You can say it.

448

:

Kretina hum.

449

:

Yeah.

450

:

Kretina hum.

451

:

Kretina hum.

452

:

It feels so good.

453

:

It feels good.

454

:

It feels like a warm hug.

455

:

Doesn't it?

456

:

Yeah.

457

:

It does.

458

:

It's amazing.

459

:

How chilled.

460

:

Yeah.

461

:

And if that's not a message of words

have power, I don't know what is.

462

:

Oh, absolutely.

463

:

Circling back to people, pleasing

what you're saying to yourself.

464

:

Love.

465

:

And saying to others that vibrational

frequency is impacting your life.

466

:

Oh, absolutely.

467

:

So not even about necessarily the

choices you're making as a people

468

:

pleaser, but if you're abandoning

yourself and saying things that aren't

469

:

in alignment with you and they're

vibrating with someone else, you're not

470

:

even connecting with who you really are.

471

:

No wonder why.

472

:

We all feel like crap.

473

:

I know.

474

:

I think too when I'm thinking about

people pleasing and if I'm having this

475

:

dilemma of do I want to say yes even

though it's not in my best interest.

476

:

Before I started setting those boundaries,

it was, Oh, I'm failing these people.

477

:

Oh, I'm going to be upsetting.

478

:

Like I'm not living up to their

expectation and changing that too.

479

:

I'm putting myself first.

480

:

I'm doing what's best for me.

481

:

The people who love me will see that.

482

:

Just change how you speak to yourself

and it just really changes the

483

:

way that you see the world and see

every situation that you're put in.

484

:

So essentially what I'm hearing you say is

putting yourself back into the equation.

485

:

Absolutely.

486

:

Which isn't selfish.

487

:

I guess people might think it

goes too far the other way.

488

:

It doesn't mean.

489

:

Fuck everybody.

490

:

I'm doing me.

491

:

It doesn't mean that either.

492

:

I'll just be here for you in my own way

and the way that best suits all of us.

493

:

Exactly.

494

:

Because when you're your best self,

you're your best self for everybody.

495

:

Exactly.

496

:

Yeah.

497

:

When you're depleted and upset but

you're putting on a brave face when

498

:

you're people pleasing, obviously

because you're pleasing them, you don't

499

:

want them to know that you're upset.

500

:

You're really not your best self

and you're not doing your best work

501

:

and you're not putting yourself

out there the way that you should.

502

:

You'd mentioned about

putting yourself first.

503

:

Yeah.

504

:

What are some ways that you've done this?

505

:

Do you have new habits or strategies or

hobbies that you do to make that shift?

506

:

I think now I'm very busy, but I

still try to make an hour a day.

507

:

I have to have at least

an hour a day for myself.

508

:

Mostly it's right before bed.

509

:

I make sure that I'm in bed at a certain

time to read my book before I go to sleep.

510

:

I paint a lot.

511

:

I love painting.

512

:

Oh, nice.

513

:

Yeah.

514

:

What kind of painting?

515

:

Ceramics.

516

:

Ooh.

517

:

My mom actually used to own a ceramic

business and she got out of it.

518

:

And so when I got back into it,

she really fully supported me.

519

:

Now I have a studio in my home.

520

:

It's very cute.

521

:

That's awesome.

522

:

It's definitely a way where I can

ground myself and really put my best

523

:

creative foot forward and really focus

on something instead of being in my head.

524

:

And I think that's what the

reading too, you really just

525

:

take yourself out of your body.

526

:

Yeah, and focus on what's

in front of you true.

527

:

I love reading I will say though

sometimes with me reading is a slippery

528

:

slope of escapism though Yes, like

it can go too far the other way where

529

:

it's almost a form of I guess you'd say

Disassociation where yeah life's too much.

530

:

Let me go hide in a book I think that's

been a pattern my whole life for myself.

531

:

I definitely understand that especially

If I'm having the Sunday scaries,

532

:

I'm like, let's just read my book.

533

:

Escape from this feeling or

the thought that I'm having.

534

:

I think that's something I need

to work towards is sitting with

535

:

that feeling and trying to work

through it instead of just escaping.

536

:

It got to a point where I was bringing

my Kindle cause I've had that where I

537

:

just use it for dissociation and I'll

bring my Kindle everywhere with me.

538

:

And anytime I have a single

moment to just relax.

539

:

I'm reading just to escape.

540

:

We've told that reading

is so good for you.

541

:

Reading is good.

542

:

So you don't feel as bad.

543

:

Exactly.

544

:

As just like another coping mechanism.

545

:

Being present I think is like the

theme, yeah being present with yourself

546

:

especially in those moments, too.

547

:

I have to ask what are your

favorite genres or what are you

548

:

currently reading right now?

549

:

Oh My favorite genres are fantasy romance.

550

:

Yes, II.

551

:

Did you read actor?

552

:

I read ACOTAR before it was

popular, like a few years ago.

553

:

As soon as I got back into reading, my

friend was like, you need to read this.

554

:

Shout out to Marina.

555

:

She changed my life.

556

:

With ACOTAR, I was

like, where have I been?

557

:

Throne of Glass is such an adventure.

558

:

I loved that series.

559

:

Although there's some parts where I'm

like, you gotta cut these chapters out.

560

:

But overall, yeah it's great.

561

:

It's such a slow build, but

the payoff is so worth it.

562

:

It is.

563

:

Yeah.

564

:

What am I reading right now?

565

:

Actually reading.

566

:

It's like an ACOTAR knockoff.

567

:

It's called rhapsodic.

568

:

Oh, never heard of it.

569

:

It's pretty good.

570

:

I'm enjoying myself.

571

:

If I look past all the similar traits

to the ACOTAR books, I can enjoy.

572

:

Yeah.

573

:

Nice.

574

:

What about you?

575

:

What are you reading?

576

:

I'm the type who has multiple

books going at one time.

577

:

I don't know if you're that way.

578

:

So let's see, I'm

finishing Throne of Glass.

579

:

And then, I'm reading this

book called 4, 000 weeks.

580

:

It's a time management book.

581

:

Do you think the time management

has helped especially with all

582

:

the things coming up for you?

583

:

Yes, it has because It's a

unique take on time management.

584

:

He talks a lot about How much grief

comes with managing your time, because

585

:

at any time you are picking, like for

instance, you chose to allocate time

586

:

to be here today, which I appreciate

so much, but that means that you

587

:

said no to a million other options.

588

:

And a lot of time there's grief with that.

589

:

If I say no to going out to this

concert with my friends because

590

:

I need time alone at home today.

591

:

I'm going to have grief about

I'm missing out on that.

592

:

Was this the right choice?

593

:

He really talks about processing

that and that's helped me a lot.

594

:

I like that a lot too.

595

:

I feel like we all experienced

that, especially when your friends

596

:

go out to that concert and you

see them having a great time.

597

:

You're like, Oh, why didn't I

want to go have a great time?

598

:

But you're really just

putting yourself first.

599

:

The book is called 4, 000 weeks time

management for mortals by Oliver Berkman.

600

:

I'll put this in the show notes.

601

:

It gets philosophical.

602

:

But it really ties into people pleasing

too, because a lot of the times we

603

:

manage our time around what other

people want and not what we want.

604

:

So then it talks about not only

the grief, but also being mindful

605

:

about how you're spending your time.

606

:

Like being honest with yourself too.

607

:

Being honest is the biggest part.

608

:

Yeah.

609

:

Yeah.

610

:

Do you think there was a part,

cause I can't remember when I

611

:

started people pleasing, I feel

like it's just been ingrained in

612

:

me for the longest period of time.

613

:

Yeah.

614

:

How about you?

615

:

Yeah, I think it's just, Upbringing

wise now having an outside bird's eye

616

:

view of my family's cultural norms,

is apparent that is what is expected.

617

:

Okay.

618

:

Keep the peace.

619

:

Yeah.

620

:

We don't rock the boat.

621

:

Put a smile on your face.

622

:

Yeah.

623

:

And then also to play on

that, the good girl mentality.

624

:

I was such a good girl won

all the awards, little leader.

625

:

Pleasure to have in class.

626

:

Oh, such a pleasure.

627

:

Always a pleasure.

628

:

Yeah.

629

:

Always a pleasure.

630

:

And now I'm looking back

and I'm like, was I really?

631

:

Is that, who would I have been if I?

632

:

Exactly.

633

:

I don't know.

634

:

How about you?

635

:

Do you feel like you were

always a people pleaser?

636

:

Oh, absolutely.

637

:

I think in the last two to three

years, I've really come out of it.

638

:

Which it doesn't seem

like that long of a time.

639

:

I think that shift, I've seen so

much growth in myself and really

640

:

acceptance for what I want.

641

:

And like you were saying, like

a bird's eye view of my life.

642

:

I think that's so important to to

look at yourself from a different

643

:

perspective, if that makes sense.

644

:

Yeah.

645

:

I find that with that too There's a

little exercise of if this conflict or

646

:

this situation was happening to somebody

that you love And like your best friend,

647

:

how would you want them to handle it?

648

:

And obviously you want them to

put themselves first That's good.

649

:

Yeah, so taking that perspective Of being

like, Oh, if it's not happening to me,

650

:

it's happening to somebody that I love.

651

:

I think now working towards body

acceptance and loving myself.

652

:

Now I'm trying to be like,

Oh, I am that person.

653

:

I am that best friend

and my own best friend.

654

:

Yeah.

655

:

Oh that's huge.

656

:

I feel like that's similar to

what I'm going through myself.

657

:

I'm not fully healed, obviously.

658

:

Oh, absolutely.

659

:

It's always a work of progress.

660

:

41 years of building this ship.

661

:

It's going to take a while to be

constructed, but that's amazing.

662

:

How about your childhood?

663

:

Because I was mentioning about being the

good girl the good student and all that.

664

:

How about you?

665

:

Yeah, I think the same.

666

:

I think I always just wanted to keep my

head low And just get by and just have

667

:

everyone just be okay I didn't want to

rock the boat as you were saying with your

668

:

family And I think that played out into

adulthood with not even dealing with it

669

:

and not even realizing I was doing it.

670

:

It's just ingrained in me.

671

:

And to really undo that

working inside of you.

672

:

This just popped into my head.

673

:

Yeah.

674

:

You said you have five brothers.

675

:

Yeah.

676

:

Do you notice a difference

between your brothers and you

677

:

as it comes to people pleasing?

678

:

You have a first hand view of not

only sibling differences, but also

679

:

male, female, gender, whatever you

subscribe to, whatever you were, Yeah.

680

:

Raised as what differences do you see?

681

:

I find that my brothers, so

none of them experience anxiety.

682

:

Really.

683

:

Wow.

684

:

Which is so fascinating.

685

:

My brother and I have conversations

all the time of now he

686

:

understands anxiety because of me.

687

:

But to hear how his brain works and

how he doesn't really get into his

688

:

head like that is so fascinating.

689

:

But I think with.

690

:

Men, like not generalizing, but in my

experience, I think they grow up in a

691

:

way where they do put themselves first.

692

:

And for women you are always meant to

please, you're always meant to be like

693

:

a servant in a way to other people.

694

:

And men don't have that.

695

:

So that's really interesting.

696

:

Did you experience any

of that in childhood?

697

:

I honestly can't remember.

698

:

I can't remember.

699

:

That's good.

700

:

That means you don't

have That's really good.

701

:

Yeah.

702

:

Nothing definitive happened.

703

:

Cause we range like 13 years to

see the differences between them.

704

:

It feels like we're in totally

different households and we've

705

:

grown up to be different people.

706

:

It's so interesting, especially

with people pleasing.

707

:

I'm always trying to

be there for everybody.

708

:

And they also are that way too.

709

:

They're always there for

me and stuff like that.

710

:

But the attitude behind it,

it's oh, they want to do this.

711

:

And I think obviously

we're both good people.

712

:

You want to do good things

for the people that you love.

713

:

but there comes to a

point where it's too much.

714

:

And I feel like knowing that

threshold of when it's too much.

715

:

Great point.

716

:

So this sparks a debate sometimes with

people, because a lot of this conversation

717

:

is basically holding a mirror up to people

and that's painful sometimes when you

718

:

are faced with your own patterns, right?

719

:

So it's so interesting doing this podcast,

even just talking about it with people,

720

:

how others will come to me and open up.

721

:

But then also when you start doing

this work it leads to some confusion.

722

:

You're like.

723

:

But I want to help people that doesn't

necessarily make me a people pleaser.

724

:

And then they're saying what if I do

something that I don't want to do, but

725

:

it's for my spouse, or it's for my family.

726

:

Does that make me a people pleaser?

727

:

There's a difference

between that and compromise.

728

:

Yes.

729

:

, it's a very nuanced thing.

730

:

Nothing is clean cut.

731

:

Exactly.

732

:

The human experience is so complex.

733

:

We want to be kind to people, but

it's maybe the difference is you run

734

:

it through your own filter, you're

not just reflexively doing stuff.

735

:

You're actually pausing and

making the decision for yourself.

736

:

Absolutely.

737

:

Does this align with the

person that I want to be?

738

:

I think that helped me a lot, especially

when there was something I didn't want to

739

:

do to really evaluate with that alignment,

cause do you want to be a good person?

740

:

I think that everybody does in

some sort of way, unless you're

741

:

like a Disney evil villain.

742

:

I have a question with people

pleasing and the shift you've seen

743

:

in yourself over the past few years.

744

:

Yeah.

745

:

How have the people around you reacted?

746

:

Ooh, that's a good question.

747

:

I think it's difficult for some especially

people who are very close to you who

748

:

haven't seen you put boundaries and don't

understand what boundaries really mean.

749

:

Especially when people don't respect

those boundaries and they keep pushing

750

:

and having to remind them over and over.

751

:

And then all of a sudden

being like, I have reminded

752

:

you I'm putting my foot down.

753

:

It's interesting to see this shift

in yourself and see it in other

754

:

people of how they react to you.

755

:

Have you had any friendships or

relationships shift or go away?

756

:

I don't think so.

757

:

I think they've definitely changed, but

I think it's changed for the better.

758

:

Oh good.

759

:

That's awesome.

760

:

Yeah.

761

:

I think everyone, especially now

in my life, is very respectful.

762

:

had friendships where it comes to

a point of wanting to be there for

763

:

someone who isn't there for themselves

and trying to be that person for them.

764

:

And then putting yourself first and

be like, I can't do this anymore.

765

:

I need to protect myself.

766

:

Yeah.

767

:

I think that's like a

form of people pleasing.

768

:

But like evaluating

them and stopping that.

769

:

How about you?

770

:

Over the years of all of this healing,

I definitely have lost friendships.

771

:

Is it really a loss though?

772

:

Exactly.

773

:

Like I said, if it's the people who want

the best for you and love you the most.

774

:

Exactly.

775

:

They want to be there.

776

:

A form of people pleasing

keeping this friend around

777

:

cause I've been friends

with them for so long.

778

:

I think that is a problem

that a lot of people have.

779

:

Why are you still

friends with this person?

780

:

Why do you still talk to them?

781

:

Oh we've been friends since middle school,

or Oh, I've known him for this long.

782

:

We've worked together for 20 years.

783

:

or That can also be a form of people

pleasing, because you don't want to

784

:

break up with your friend because

you've changed and they haven't, but

785

:

you're not willing to let that go.

786

:

Absolutely.

787

:

Especially as you're growing if you don't

see growth in them, or they're not willing

788

:

to have growth, It's very interesting

to be this is taking away from my joy.

789

:

I need to walk away from this

relationship Yes, and that's so hard.

790

:

It's so hard because we don't talk

about friendship breakups enough.

791

:

It's devastating.

792

:

It is.

793

:

I had a friendship breakup of

11 years and it was on and off.

794

:

I was trying to be there They

were in a toxic relationship.

795

:

I couldn't be around . It got to a point

where they said they were going to leave.

796

:

They kept going back and I was like, I

can't put my heart through this again.

797

:

Yeah.

798

:

Yeah.

799

:

It's really hard.

800

:

It's so hard.

801

:

People don't talk about it enough.

802

:

They don't.

803

:

Yeah.

804

:

It's very devastating.

805

:

Cause especially when you spend so

much of your life with somebody.

806

:

Even work friendships too.

807

:

Yeah.

808

:

Cause a lot of friendships, you're

so close cause you work together.

809

:

And they don't last outside

of work when you move on.

810

:

That's sad too.

811

:

And you always say they're going

to, and then they just don't.

812

:

You just fizzle out.

813

:

Yeah.

814

:

But having the courage to end

those relationships that aren't

815

:

serving your highest good.

816

:

Absolutely.

817

:

For friendships and such is huge.

818

:

One part of the healing journey I've

noticed with people pleasing and loving

819

:

myself is who I surround myself with,

but intentionally looking for who

820

:

speak my language and support me and

having those deep soul friendships.

821

:

I intentionally, it was like I want to

surround myself with people who I can

822

:

talk to you about this stuff or, my

spiritual side and that sort of thing.

823

:

I don't want to hide who I

am, which I felt like I had

824

:

to do so much as a teacher.

825

:

I've made these soul

connection friendships here.

826

:

Oh, I love that.

827

:

The past few years.

828

:

And it's been a beautiful thing to see and

witness and I think it's because I didn't

829

:

people please myself with, just being

unintentional about who has surrounding.

830

:

I guess I'll hang out with them.

831

:

Yeah.

832

:

But only because of this reason

of that I'm new and I'm back.

833

:

Interesting.

834

:

the light just flashed on and off.

835

:

I'm pretty sure off and

on, so I'm pretty sure.

836

:

The ghosts that haunt

this house agree with us.

837

:

Yeah.

838

:

Like good for you.

839

:

They're like chair from the back.

840

:

Have you had a similar experience at all?

841

:

I think so.

842

:

Yeah.

843

:

I think now with all the friendships that

I've made, there's a common respect and

844

:

there's a common admiration for really,

Being yourself and being your best self.

845

:

Everybody who I'm surrounded with

really, I think, believes that we're

846

:

all going through our own thing, but

being there for people where you can

847

:

have deep connections, you can talk

deeply with them and feel like it's a

848

:

safe space is really it's so valuable.

849

:

Honestly you can't put a value on it.

850

:

So taking a look at who you surround

yourself with will show you your patterns

851

:

of people pleasing for sure Oh, absolutely

show you where you're abandoning yourself

852

:

in some areas But really all of this comes

down to, in my opinion, having courage

853

:

to put your wellbeing first, doing some

hard stuff to hit reboot on your life.

854

:

Absolutely.

855

:

It's the thought of what's the

worst thing that's going to

856

:

happen if I put myself first.

857

:

And nothing, because you're putting

yourself first, everything that follows

858

:

was meant to be, especially people who

don't want to be in your life after that.

859

:

They don't want What's best for you.

860

:

Megan: I think there's this negative

connotation on the word selfish.

861

:

Oh, it seems selfish to put myself

first , but you only have one life,

862

:

what are you going to do with it?

863

:

Are you going to spend your

whole life serving others?

864

:

Are you going to serve yourself?

865

:

True.

866

:

Yeah.

867

:

Jenny: Then you can help others more so

from a more stable centered place if you

868

:

are taking care of your needs for sure.

869

:

Absolutely.

870

:

I've been wrapping up all the interviews,

asking people have, you could put a

871

:

piece of advice on a bumper sticker.

872

:

What would you put?

873

:

Probably if will this matter in five

weeks, five months or five years?

874

:

Ah, yes.

875

:

Will it.

876

:

Probably not.

877

:

And you just worry about so much

and just to really evaluate,

878

:

to be like, when will this.

879

:

It valid.

880

:

That's impacting your life right now.

881

:

But realizing how small

of an issue this is.

882

:

And it might be a big issue, but at five

years will be a big issue who knows.

883

:

Probably not.

884

:

You're like, oh, I don't want

to have to deal with this.

885

:

Yeah.

886

:

Is this conversation going

to matter in five years?

887

:

Well, some of it might because you might

not be friends with the person anymore.

888

:

No, but others know, like I can get

through feeling like crap right now.

889

:

It'll be all right.

890

:

And I think also with

anxiety and people pleasing.

891

:

I'm always thinking about like my

reactions and how I'm handling things.

892

:

A lot of people will not

remember that in five years.

893

:

You're like, but I'm very head.

894

:

Oh, good point.

895

:

to you.

896

:

Is it that big deal in the

universe of things like in your

897

:

community and stuff like that?

898

:

Really great point because we really

are all, I mean, it's just the

899

:

human way, but we are all excited.

900

:

Going to be the best time.

901

:

That's awesome.

902

:

Quality time with the people that I love.

903

:

Yes.

904

:

Oh, beautiful.

905

:

I appreciate you making time to come

talk to us and thanks for having me.

906

:

Yeah.

907

:

Yeah, of course.

908

:

Yeah.

909

:

I saw your Instagram post.

910

:

I got to do it.

911

:

I love it.

912

:

Amazing.

913

:

I love how many people are being willing

to share their stories, to help others.

914

:

And.

915

:

Too.

916

:

I think also, you know, show themselves.

917

:

Their own growth.

918

:

Absolutely.

919

:

It was good to talk about your journey.

920

:

Absolutely amazing.

921

:

I hope that someone out there

that's like wedding planning

922

:

understands and like sees us.

923

:

So maybe it'll help a little Yes, I hope

so what they want their day to look like.

924

:

Exactly.

925

:

Yeah.

926

:

Beautiful.

927

:

Yeah.

928

:

Well, thanks so much, Megan.

929

:

Thank you.

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