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Mandela Effects, Ancestral Trauma, Smoked Trumpet Mushrooms, and Chemical Drama with Madeline Pointer
Episode 7018th June 2022 • Ramble by the River • Jeff Nesbitt
00:00:00 02:27:48

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Local artist and longtime friend Madeline Pointer joins me for an enlightened discussion about the state of the world, the future of humanity and why it is so easy to fall in love a good salad.

I explain my findings regarding Elon Musk's plan for global domination, Madeline talks about the wild foraged ingredients you can find in local PNW cuisine. We bond over our common dopamine regulation deficiencies (ADHD). And we recount some of our finest memories from Ilwaco High School.

Topics include:

Is Elon Musk the antichrist?

What is the Mandela Effect and is it proof that we live in a simulation?

The surprising history of drugs like MDMA and Psilocybin.

Technologies that will define our future.

I really enjoyed making this episode. Madeline was a fantastic guest and I couldn't be more grateful for her candor, her humor, and most of all, her patience (it took me a long time to finish it).

Thanks for listening!

Ramble by the River Links:

·      Patreon: Patreon.com/ramblebytheriver

·      Website: Ramblebytheriver.com

·      Business: ramblebytheriver@gmail.com

·      Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jeff.nesbitt.9619/

·      Instagram: https://instagram.com/ramblebytheriver

·      Twitter: https://twitter.com/rambleriverpod

·      Podcast host: Ramblebytheriver.captivate.fm

Reference Links:

1. Clip from The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. NBC. From Youtube.com. Accessed 6/17/2022.

2. Clip from Global News Toronto. From Youtube.com. Accessed 6/15/2022.

3. The Big White Lie: The CIA and the Cocaine/Crack Epidemic. 1993. Accessed from https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/big-white-lie-cia-and-cocainecrack-epidemic

4. NBC’s LX news. “What Sinbad’s Kids want you to know about Shazaam”. From lx.com. 6/17/2022. https://www.lx.com/culture/entertainment/what-sinbads-kids-want-you-to-know-about-shazaam/41133/#:~:text=Do%20you%20remember%20the%20'90s,deal%20with%20a%20tragic%20time%3F

Keywords: Covid-19; service industry; essential workers; Osprey Cafe; real-estate; homelessness; housing crisis; news sources; flat-earth; Tik-Tok; shapeshifters; reptilians; algorithms; Google; Facebook; Twitter; Apple; education; college; cured meats; food preservation; ADHD; crisis mode; Elon Musk; Qanon; Aliens; Project Bluebeam; CIA; cocain; heroin; LSD; veterans; narcotics; Afghanistan; opium; poppy fields; Chaos by Tom O’Neill; Joe Rogan; Jiu Jitzu; working memory; plants; flora and fauna; gardening; art; puffins; Puffin Rock; trauma; ancestral trauma; Haystack Rock; Cannon Beach; Oregon; The Simpsons; Elf; foraging; Forage and Farm; mushrooms; Wavecrest Inn; stinging nettles; medicinal plants; feet; trumpet mushrooms; knitting; television, conspiracy; deep state; Tesla; Google; Grimes; Lex Friedman; The Lex Friedman Podcast; Neuralink; Starlink; SpaceX; Solar City; Google; Marvel Comics Universe; Twitter; Dopamine Nation; Mandela Effect; drugs; cannabis; mushrooms; Barenstain Bears; drugs; psychedelics; black onyx; obsidian; crystals; pseudoscience; scientific method; human memory; repressed memories; religious brainwashing; groupthink; trauma; dopamine; creatives arts; wild local ingredients; Pacific Northwest Cuisine; beautiful salads; stinging nettle; wood sorrel; fiddlehead ferns; natural medicine; smoked trumpet mushroom; wild onion; famous cliches; crystals; telekinesis; observer effect; pseudoscience; psilocybe mushrooms; psychic mediums; ghosts; multidimensional beings; demons; women’s rights; progressivism; pro-choice; pro-life; Roe v. Wade; ancient civilizations; finding joy.

Transcripts

Madeline Pointer

[:

[00:00:09] I'll address the elephant in the room. It's been a while since I made a podcast. Sorry about that. I really don't have a good excuse. It's just been busy, busy, and I got overwhelmed, got overwhelmed, overloaded myself, and just needed to step back and take a break. and I have still been putting out episodes on the Patreon. So if you are. Really in need of some ramble by the river, go pay 3 99, go sign up for the Patreon, get those episodes and you won't have to worry about it. But yeah, I've been just super busy lately and these free episodes while they are fun to make, they do take a lot of work.

[:

[00:01:05] And I have been okay since, and I'm good now and thank you. Thank you for checking on me.

[:

[00:01:37] So I've been out there chopping Scott's room down and you know, you know how it is. I don't need to get into it. We, my audience on this show is well aware of, you know, proper, not just weed control practices. So I, I won't have to get into all that. Yeah, it's a good show today. I really do wanna talk about this one thing it's bizarre and it's yeah, [00:02:00] I, I assume you've heard of it already because it's everywhere, but, well, it was, I've noticed today is a lot less, um, less popular on the old Google searches.

[:

[00:02:37] And it seems like they're very close to doing that. It has seemed like that for a while and we all think it sounds like science fiction. Like you. What is it? Space Odyssey, 2001 space. Odysey is that right? The I'm sorry, Dave or whatever it is. I spent a long time since I've seen it, but Hal, I remember the computer's name was Hal [00:03:00] and he becomes sentient and he, for the astronauts own good.

[:

[00:03:18] What is the term for like a cultural tale that that is kind of timeless. It, it goes across cultures. There's gotta be a great word for that. And I'm just drawing a

[:

[00:03:55] Man, I feel like that was a really ignorant little [00:04:00] bit there. Sorry. I'm a little rust. Also I'm a little bit tired, no excuses anyway, back to the show. Okay. So some shit has gone down and Google has worked really hard to make these awesome computers that seem like people they're gonna pass the touring test.

[:

[00:04:41] So it almost passes, but there's just something about it. That's not quite human. So you end up just feeling kind of almost creeped out by it. And it's weird. It's unsettling. A good example was that Sophia robot who. Was, I mean, pretty cool. Honestly, she had a, [00:05:00] I mean, she was built well to where she looked like a human, like a rubber face, you know, with facial expressions and all that.

[:

[00:06:24] We're just moving at a breakneck pace towards the singularity or the moment when computers become smarter than people. And who knows when that's gonna be, but it seems like it's gonna happen. I just hope they're benevolent. When they rule us with an iron fist,

[:

[00:07:01] But there's more that they can do. , you know, these computers can actually create novel ideas, which that's, that's the really impressive part. If you can get a machine to do something on its own, without help from a human that's very creepy. Cause then, you know, what, what else could it do on its own?

[:

[00:07:34] Jeff Nesbitt: well, how do you think they'd respond to Lambda the AI program that finishes your sentences as you type. This now suspended, Google, AI researcher, Blake Lemos, published the conversation he had with Lambda, where he asked if the AI knew it wasn't human. I mean, yes, of course, that doesn't mean I don't have the same wants and needs as people.

[:

[00:08:22] This is the first time in the human story that we are in a position where we potentially interfacing with a form of intelligence that is beyond potentially our. And I would argue we're tremendously eloquent for this. We spoke with Bowman from the Democratic Republic of the Congo an hour after he was face to face with apes in the wild.

[:

[00:09:04] And if that doesn't blow your mind, Mike, Dr. Delay global news, Toronto yeah. So I don't know. That might just go right over your head and you might not think anything of it or it might blow your mind. I don't know. It blows mine.

[:

[00:09:29] It's been raining for a month. That's

[:

[00:09:53] My guest today is Madeline pointer. And she's the other Madeline we know Madeline [00:10:00] Matson, AKA Madeline Dickerson, who has been a guest on the show, but she's a friend of mine from. Back way back. I've known her since I was in kindergarten and this Madeline pointer I met when I was in fourth grade. so I basically grew up with her too.

[:

[00:10:39] She's really a great person. She's very cool. She's best friends with Hannah. Baldon who you've met in a couple episodes now also. And she's yeah, I should have known all along how cool she was just from that alone, but yeah, we had a good time when I was in fifth or sixth grade, we had a school talent show, [00:11:00] whole school did it.

[:

[00:11:25] So

[:

[00:11:47] And she's like, oh, okay. Sure. And so me and my friend, Danny decided we were gonna partner up and become stars. Essentially. We were gonna run this, run [00:12:00] this talent show, introduce the guests, come up with some good banter. And we actually did. We wrote a script and

[:

[00:12:28] This feels. Yeah, crazy. Anyway, I digress towards the end of the show. It became known that I was a robot and like I threw Danny off the stage into the crowd and I, I remember it being awesome. And Alex Mack came out and arrested me and pulled me back and they played the cops theme song, bad boys.

[:

[00:13:16] What was I talking about? come on brain. You could do this.

[:

[00:13:46] so we did this talent show and Madeline was running the talent show. Like she was the director. She arranged all of it. She decided what the acts were gonna be. She had the main role. She did all the [00:14:00] work. I was all creative. That's all I was doing.

[:

[00:14:33] And she called me out on it in the middle of science class in front of everybody, like two years later. And , I, uh, I was flabbergasted and, but I remember exactly what she said she said it very well. I was like, how did you must have had that locked and loaded for years? But she said, , yes. It was funny. you did make it.

[:

[00:15:17] But now in the story, we both kind of. just like, who cares? Neither of us look bad or good. It's just a dumb kid story. Uh, but my, oh yeah. I know why I had to tell it because it matters because of this next story in high school, I made Madeline cry because I told her to shut the fuck up.

[:

[00:15:54] Did nothing like that. And then, you know, she, she lost it [00:16:00] on me, which people tend to do from time to time. It's fine. It's okay. It is what it is. It's it's fine with me. Really. I can handle it. so I remember very little of this, but I, I feel like we were in a car. I had thought I had thought I was in the parking lot of the high school, but maybe not, but she was whing in about something, you know, going on.

[:

[00:16:43] And in this moment I choose to be kind, you know, in this moment I choose to take the better path, which may be the harder path, but it's gonna be the path that leads me to where I want to. So that's what I do and that's all I have control over. So I'm here, I'm now and I'm making good choices. [00:17:00] I hope you're doing the same.

[:

[:

[00:00:10] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. That's, that's tends to be the norm for our generation. It seems like I

[:

[00:00:21] And they're like, it's just anxiety. It's all it is. Um, I just am panicked constantly. I'm like, well, it comes off really good. Like maybe it's

[:

[00:00:36] Madeline Pointer: I think you're probably right this so weird. Cause I can't just hearing you through my ears, but yeah,

[:

[00:00:45] You're used to it. Yeah. So, um, let's see. Did you have things you wanted to cover?

[:

[00:01:19] And, you know, I, sorry, I cry a lot,

[:

[00:01:30] it's taken such a toll on everybody. For sure. Even working public facing has been such a shit show and like, there's that, you know, like essential workers, like, oh my gosh, thank you all for being here. Then that lasted a week

[:

[00:01:48] Madeline Pointer: week. And everybody's like, I'm entitled to all of your attention and energy and fuck you for not being what you know, not doing what I think you should right now.

[:

[00:02:00] Jeff Nesbitt: that was a very, I'd call it a mind virus that the need to control everybody else's behavior. I don't know why. I mean, I do know why cause of existential threats tend to bring that out in people, but it sucks. And it is, it's really hard to stomach that when it's, when it goes against who you are, like, that's not who I am.

[:

[00:02:25] Madeline Pointer: around. I like, I, you know, I work at a small restaurant and we're like, you know, want to top five on the Oregon coast. It's great Osprey cafe. It's spectacular, um, owned by a great family. I love working for them, but God.

[:

[00:02:48] Jeff Nesbitt: experience. Yeah. Restaurants seemed like they had it harder than anyone else because the dead,

[:

[00:03:01] Jeff Nesbitt: maybe even harder than them.

[:

[00:03:06] Jeff Nesbitt: The restaurants were closed and then they were open, but conditionally, and then it was back and forth, back and forth because

[:

[00:03:14] Supply chain problems,

[:

[00:03:25] Madeline Pointer: line. Yeah. You know, I'm like the person greeting people at the door and saying, oh my gosh, you know, like, can you please put a mask on, you know, we can only see 10 people at a time this week we can only, you know, do to go orders , and it just, you know, it feels so frivolous and small for me to obese stressed out about, well, you know, everybody's facing their own personal challenges, but it was difficult.

[:

[00:04:11] Wow. We're really happy for your business right now. This is great.

[:

[00:04:26] Madeline Pointer: left. There's literally

[:

[00:04:34] Just start buying lots and

[:

[00:04:51] Jeff Nesbitt: that go on forever? Ghana weight, like crazy. It just in the last year, if you had, if you're just sitting on property that you like inherited or something, I could see people [00:05:00] just being like, alright, now's the time I'm going to sell it.

[:

[00:05:08] Madeline Pointer: It's so it's so bad. And like, I think everybody having kind of a break from the daily routine and, um, the grind as they call it, um, give everybody an opportunity to really look around and be like, what the fuck am I doing? Yeah, you don't want to be doing it and do I want to be doing it?

[:

[00:05:38] I'm not sure how to word this, but, um, in seaside I have, it's been very apparent over the last, even just the last six months to a year, like the homeless population has skyrocketed. There's just, it's comes back to this like housing crisis thing. And the,

[:

[00:06:01] Madeline Pointer: No, it was just a pass through in the summertime. But I think everywhere is feeling the,

[:

[00:06:21] Jeff Nesbitt: and of a dynasty. Yeah,

[:

[00:06:24] Jeff Nesbitt: has to shift Roman empire vibes, really things are crumbling.

[:

[00:06:33] Jeff Nesbitt: super, not fine. If you look around, like, I dunno, it just depends on where you look we're are. We're so trained to like look for our information in these certain places.

[:

[00:06:54] Madeline Pointer: good. And you can't like, that's the other thing, like when you look at like [00:07:00] the political sphere, like, you know, you go so far, one direction that you just slip into the next side.

[:

[00:07:24] Jeff Nesbitt: I think it's a political sphere. It's a political flat disc, like an ice wall.

[:

[00:07:32] Firmament? Yes. Thank you.

[:

[00:07:39] Madeline Pointer: mean, I, I do actually have Tik TOK, but I don't like

[:

[00:07:57] Black hole at the north pole. That's emitting, [00:08:00] you know, EMF, radiation, and that's what causing the Northern lights, all of it, all of the, all of the crazy fucker

[:

[00:08:13] Jeff Nesbitt: Well, that's, that's the thing is like it's. So the, the for you page is so good at deciding what it is.

[:

[00:08:37] Madeline Pointer: you've just thought it. And then it's like,

[:

[00:08:43] And when I say those, I mean, Facebook, Google, all of them together. Like I so reliable now that when I have a novel thought in my head, like, oh, I would like to start doing this, or I want to get into this topic. I'll just be like, okay, well just think about it a little bit more. It will come up in your feed and it does [00:09:00] it.

[:

[00:09:02] Madeline Pointer: anymore. I know there was, when I first started noticing it happening, like, I'll think like, oh, I need to get this for this like art project I'm working on. And then I'd get like these ads for that specific thing. I'm like, what is happening if they're not even listening lemming, they are listening.

[:

[00:09:25] Jeff Nesbitt: There SIM of you is so good. Now that it's thinking your thoughts. I know at the same time, can we

[:

[00:09:35] Jeff Nesbitt: It's probably because they don't have to be, there's no physical representation of it.

[:

[00:09:50] Madeline Pointer: it is infinite. And it's really like, I don't know. Oh man, you're talking about like, they're trying to make you crazy and like, [00:10:00]

[:

[00:10:03] Right. Because I already believe that, like, I don't need convincing that, that we're living on a spherical earth a little bit more now, but less so, so it's yeah. It's just like, you gotta really control where you focus your attention. I really

[:

[00:10:26] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. Reality

[:

[00:10:35] Jeff Nesbitt: would lead us to believe that no, there is no objective reality, not in the traditional sense that we understand it. There's no place that we all share that is identical and indistinguishable from person to person.

[:

[00:10:50] Madeline Pointer: right? It's just our perception of what we are picking up in our, you know, our house when vibration bounces off of our own, but

[:

[00:11:21] Because it's so subject to change just by what you believe or don't believe to be true. That's some scary shit, scary shit. Or you can trust yourself.

[:

[00:11:50] Jeff Nesbitt: I, I try to do that and I feel like I'm on a stage or in a play.

[:

[00:12:08] Madeline Pointer: again? Well, you're just trying to like fit into this like, um, ridiculous box that you think that you should live inside of for who?

[:

[00:12:24] Madeline Pointer: I think that I am fairly fortunate to have not ever felt that I have to be one way or the other, or like, um, hide who I am as myself. I don't like people knowing who I am, but that's just like a weird fucking Scorpio thing.

[:

[00:12:59] [00:13:00] That I haven't felt pressured to perform as a character. Maybe as much as some other

[:

[00:13:09] Madeline Pointer: I, I don't

[:

[00:13:19] Madeline Pointer: I think.

[:

[00:13:30] Jeff Nesbitt: and good as a very relative sometimes I feel like I had great parents other times, not so much. Just depends on the conversation. Yeah. Yeah. I think,

[:

[00:13:42] I don't know. I think I made, maybe it is an, an ignorance to a degree or not like also never like putting myself in a position to be around too many other people. Maybe that [00:14:00] was it. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that has been, um, to my detriment in some ways it's very limiting, but, but also I feel like where I'm at now in life is pretty.

[:

[00:14:13] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. So that's the best way to look at it. I do that same thing all the time where I'm like, I have a tendency to beat. Anxious and avoidant from the world's challenges and not really all challenges. There are some challenges that I very much like that I almost like crave, like working a lot.

[:

[00:14:58] I'm like, what are we [00:15:00] doing? Like where, what are, why are we here? Like, and I understand that it's like, just, it's just for the interaction alone,

[:

[00:15:11] Jeff Nesbitt: definitely that, but also I'm thinking if we're doing this for, for a connection, let's actually talk, let's go somewhere where we can actually connect instead of just standing somewhere together in a loud room.

[:

[00:15:25] Madeline Pointer: I agree with that. And I, um, yeah. I, people just connect different ways. Exactly. I think that you're right. And that's yeah. Another thing, like, I prefer like a genuine connection over just like.

[:

[00:15:45] I don't actually give a shit and I'm, even though I'm trying to give a shit, but I can't make myself give a shit. I've got no shits to give all your shit is used. They're all things I really care about. And I [00:16:00] would love to talk about that stuff. But as far as like, nobody wants to hear about it, then most of the time they don't, if they do they'll listen to my podcasts.

[:

[00:16:11] Madeline Pointer: I can just stay here and talk about it. That's just fine. Yeah. Um, so, uh, for the first time ever in my life, I'm doing some continued education. I'm going to school right now to get my nails. Heck degree. Cool. Um, that's something that I had wanted to do when I dropped out of high school, but then I just fucked off for a while and then got pregnant and was a mom.

[:

[00:16:53] Jeff Nesbitt: Did you like school before you dropped out?

[:

[00:17:08] I knew that it wasn't anything that was going to, I knew I wasn't going to go to a college or,

[:

[00:17:18] Madeline Pointer: I didn't want to, um, and nobody was there to be like, you should do this, you know? So I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do, but I'm going to go probably going to go to beauty school and, you know, eventually I did.

[:

[00:17:39] Jeff Nesbitt: So you're commuting from CSI. That's a pretty, how often do you have to do that? Tuesday through Friday. Oh man. That was at 90 minutes.

[:

[00:17:54] Jeff Nesbitt: comes down to.

[:

[00:17:56] Madeline Pointer: you drive? I try a 2005 Volkswagen Passat [00:18:00] wagon.

[:

[00:18:01] Madeline Pointer: trip. It is. It's wonderful. Um, you know, I missed about a week of school because there was a snow storm and leaving at six 30 in the morning, the roads are just covered in ice. Um, and then I had

[:

[00:18:16] It was in April

[:

[00:18:33] Jeff Nesbitt: Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's a little silly. How'd you make that up and everything is all good.

[:

[00:18:42] It depends on what the next four days look like for me. I am scheduled to do my practical on Friday. Um, but if I don't get like eight pedicures and seven manicures in there's a time to test. No. Um, well, it is a bit of a [00:19:00] time test. Like you have for the practical, you have an hour to do a pedicure or a half hour to do a manicure on one hand, then you have to do some enhancements for different kinds of enhancements on the other hand.

[:

[00:19:36] It's for like cosmetology massage, probably other things. But those are the two that I know about. Um,

[:

[00:19:46] Madeline Pointer: anyway. Yeah, this one's just based on the services that you do, you have to do so many. So anyway, long story short, I might have to go an extra week and then not practical out until January, or I'm sorry, June 10th, but [00:20:00] wouldn't be the end of the world.

[:

[00:20:06] Jeff Nesbitt: that kind of stuff is not worth stressing over now.

[:

[00:20:13] Jeff Nesbitt: I'll stress about anything, any opportunity. Honestly, this podcast has been stressful lately because I haven't been recording and I've just because I've been busy with my real job.

[:

[00:20:38] Madeline Pointer: negatively, this is like a passion project. Yeah. And only

[:

[00:20:45] Right. Because it's just, yeah. But, um, yeah, that just hate that feeling of just like that something

[:

[00:21:03] what does it affect you think

[:

[00:21:11] Madeline Pointer: they probably felt that way about, um, their food. Yeah.

[:

[00:21:17] Madeline Pointer: that's it because they couldn't just go to the grocery store

[:

[00:21:26] So even when you scored up the most food, you could get a week's worth of food, the

[:

[00:21:34] Jeff Nesbitt: things like that. And that's not as good as regular meats, but if it's

[:

[00:21:43] Jeff Nesbitt: yeah, you store your meat in. I heard, I just heard this, them say this on this another podcast, but I think it's a Robert Sapolsky quote.

[:

[00:22:08] And even then, then you're at risk of predators coming and getting in. But if you store that meat in the tr in the bodies of your tribesmen, then when they make a kill, they're going to store some of that meeting. Right. And that's just, that's just good business.

[:

[00:22:24] Jeff Nesbitt: And it's true.

[:

[00:22:56] Right? My brain, so fucking loves to pick berries. [00:23:00] It's almost like embarrassing. Is this my calling? Yeah. But is this, is this what I'm meant to be doing? Should I just drop it all and just go in hard to Berry picking or just be a forger? And I've done that. Like I had, I like, I was selling stuff that I picked just because I couldn't get out of the woods.

[:

[00:23:45] Madeline Pointer: can do

[:

[00:23:48] Madeline Pointer: the urgency.

[:

[00:24:06] Jeff Nesbitt: Might as well.

[:

[00:24:40] Jeff Nesbitt: It's just, that gets a little bit slippery. Yeah. It gets a little bit slippery. I have tried to do some investigation on that and there's just so much overlap between between trauma, ADHD, autism, and other stuff too. But PTSD, complex PTSD. Yeah, [00:25:00] all that stuff. I honestly, I could fit myself into a lot of those categories on any given day.

[:

[00:25:23] I think that they, they are very, they can be very limiting.

[:

[00:25:47] Jeff Nesbitt: are.

[:

[00:25:51] Madeline Pointer: exactly. And I can say, oh shit, well, there's another thing that like, I'm going to have to learn how to cope with, for the rest of [00:26:00] my goddamn life. Yeah.

[:

[00:26:07] Yeah.

[:

[00:26:12] Jeff Nesbitt: One is just trying to figure it out so I can fix it. Twenties are the worst, man. They really were hard. It was a really

[:

[00:26:32] And I was like, oh my God,

[:

[00:26:39] Madeline Pointer: be very helpful. It's, you know, I'm not healed, but I think I own hell

[:

[00:26:59] Madeline Pointer: [00:27:00] it's okay.

[:

[00:27:03] Jeff Nesbitt: if you made it out of childhood without any trauma, I don't know how you did that. Yeah,

[:

[00:27:35] Has it been only two years of a pandemic, but I don't know exactly what is time it's gone. Um, but

[:

[00:27:48] Madeline Pointer: there's just. Than a downshift. It seems obviously I'm very caught up in

[:

[00:28:06] It's all fresh and new. Yeah. So it's, we've got to learn how to do it

[:

[00:28:22] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. And it's just, yeah. You can just get a first of all, you're just

[:

[00:28:25] Jeff Nesbitt: yourself of other people's pain. Yeah. Yeah.

[:

[00:28:34] Madeline Pointer: I have like a real concerted effort just at the beginning of this year to kind of not consume that because fuck man.

[:

[00:28:48] Madeline Pointer: literally kill you toxic.

[:

[00:28:50] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I stick to strictly Elon Musk related news and that keeps me plenty busy.

[:

[00:29:03] Madeline Pointer: um, a little bit like Chrisy it's, you know, I just think that, um, I don't know. What is the saying about the devil coming dressed in. Something attractive. That

[:

[00:29:54] Right. Because that's what we would least expect. Right. I mean, that's the only logic Trump obviously, [00:30:00] but then,

[:

[00:30:05] Jeff Nesbitt: church. I mean, Q Q probably had it completely backwards. And Trump probably was not the hero that we all thought he was, you know, I'm very disappointed me too.

[:

[00:30:17] Madeline Pointer: Yeah, I'm not really sure what to think. Honestly, I will say that I'm

[:

[00:30:36] are

[:

[00:30:38] CIA Secrets

[:

[00:30:43] Jeff Nesbitt: about project blue beam,

[:

[00:30:46] Jeff Nesbitt: the purpose was to convince the populace of alien arrivals and, uh, of the presence of alien technology and all this stuff as to be used as a smokescreen for, you know, other [00:31:00] nefarious shit that's going on.

[:

[00:31:07] Madeline Pointer: But I mean, I feel like the CIA has had a few of these projects. Oh, it's better. Yeah. Of aliens specifically, but like there's some podcasts. I listen to that. Talk about like all the, you know, CIA

[:

[00:31:21] Okay. Thinking about it the other day, the CIA was responsible for the vast majority of the cocaine epidemic. Absolutely. Cane epidemic, the heroin epidemic. And the LSV Alec, all three of those were completely the CIA. Yeah. Like, I mean, and we have evidence of this. It's not even really discussed.

[:

[00:31:45] Madeline Pointer: But also like, if you look at the, like, um, what is done for veterans and soldiers of war, like, oh, here's some, um, narcotics. Yeah. Go about your day.[00:32:00]

[:

[00:32:08] Jeff Nesbitt: just to protect the fields. Yeah,

[:

[00:32:13] Jeff Nesbitt: you're standing in the fucking, what are you going to do with a machine gun? I'm not going to smoke a little bit of opium.

[:

[00:32:19] Madeline Pointer: on. Absolutely. Come on. Absolutely. If I'm in a fucking war.

[:

[00:32:25] Jeff Nesbitt: help. I should probably be allowed to, you should be able to feel good if you're having a fit battle

[:

[00:32:34] Jeff Nesbitt: Maybe a little bit of that too. Maybe a little column, a little column B heroin and therapy.

[:

[00:32:46] Not optional. That'd be great too. Yeah. Yeah.

[:

[00:32:54] I'll put a ding in here for the name of the guy,

[:

[00:33:19] As for CIA and cocaine slash crack. There's lots of evidence that they had a lot to do with the drug war and all that. I'm not going to get way into that. You can do the research on your own, but just here's a little bit from a paper that I found. This is published from us department of justice.

[:

[00:33:43] this book written by a former undercover agent working for the drug enforcement administration. DEA. Charges that the central intelligence agency and other us federal agencies. Are perpetuating the scourge of drugs on American streets while they profess to be fighting the war on [00:34:00] drugs. The author contends that this account is based on real incidents, conversations and events, reconstructed from tapes, personal diaries, court, transcripts, and interviews.

[:

[00:34:32] Finally, the author maintains that without the CIA support south American cartels and the epidemic of cocaine and crack use in the U S would never have occurred.

[:

[00:34:39] Jeff Nesbitt: Joe Rogan was very into this book for a little bit, a little bit. So I got, you know, all, all, uh, into it myself

[:

[00:34:46] Madeline Pointer: to say that I've, um, was thinking the other day and I was listening to this podcast and I was thinking like, man, Jeff is really like the Joe Rogan of our graduating class.[00:35:00]

[:

[00:35:04] Madeline Pointer: Um, that's okay.

[:

[00:35:13] Madeline Pointer: It seems painful. You know, I took a few, I took, um, two jujitsu classes and those were so hard and you know, my daughter did it for a couple of years and, um, we're not involved any longer for a multitude of reasons, but I have been watching her do this and I'm like, wow, this looks really fun.

[:

[00:35:57] Jeff Nesbitt: It's a sport of strangulation. It [00:36:00] really,

[:

[00:36:01] Jeff Nesbitt: fun trying to twist your joints out of the socket.

[:

[00:36:09] Jeff Nesbitt: alligators, kudos, spins. I think crocodiles they're like crocodile crocodiles.

[:

[00:36:19] Uh, anyway, kudos. Anybody who can do that though? Um, my boyfriend just got his purple belt in jujitsu, so I'm very proud of him. I was actually probably like six months ago, but that's still,

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[00:36:31] Madeline Pointer: just enough. Yeah. I mean, it takes a couple of years. Right.

[:

[00:36:37] Uh, it is

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[00:36:40] Jeff Nesbitt: black. They should've thrown brown down there lower. It's a such a shitty color. No pun intended. You know what I mean? I've got to give up this, like the seriousness

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[00:36:56] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah, but you don't get aware it brown. I don't want to wear a brown

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[00:37:00] That's why you train hard and you just get rid of it straight to black, straight up the mountain.

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[00:37:09] Madeline Pointer: me. Some people

[:

[00:37:24] These shut down. I'm just like, sorry, you're gonna have to talk to my wife. I

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[00:37:41] Jeff Nesbitt: I, I talk about that all the time. It's just

[:

[00:37:50] Jeff Nesbitt: sometimes.

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[00:37:56] Madeline Pointer: I mean, they look pretty similar at that point.

[:

[00:38:11] Like, and, and because to me, it seems like why hold that information all the time? Yeah. I don't need it all the time. I only need it every once in a while. And if I do it's in my phone so I can let go of that. And I only hold what I need. I need like what, it takes me to have a conversation with somebody or like the names of the people I'm around.

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[00:38:42] Madeline Pointer: don't think there's any other way to do it at this point. Um,

[:

[00:38:51] Madeline Pointer: the thing, like we're, we're getting older and like, I don't know.

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[00:39:00] Jeff Nesbitt: of thought. Self-conscious about it because they're so sharp. They don't forget that my

[:

[00:39:08] Jeff Nesbitt: no in her what? My mostly Sawyer, like, uh, I had to admit to him the other day, like he was gone at a bit, a, a game with his mom. And then I was talking with my daughter for a second.

[:

[00:39:37] And it's just like, all right, you must not be thinking about other shit.

[:

[00:39:46] Jeff Nesbitt: lacking. I don't think they did that. Like that, that information is just important to them. Maybe because they don't want to look like an idiot. If somebody is like, Hey, what month is it?

[:

[00:40:01] Madeline Pointer: of the, one of the norm ones growing

[:

[00:40:10] Madeline Pointer: I know. Yeah. Um, so we're super lucky to live in an area that has a lot of, uh, fantastic plants and greenery

[:

[00:40:23] Madeline Pointer: I live in an apartment and I have no yard and it is pretty sad, but I have a lot of potted plants.

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[00:40:54] Jeff Nesbitt: at a gallery. I would like to talk about all of those things except serving wine at a gallery.

[:

[00:41:08] Madeline Pointer: Okay. So the art show was for, um, an event. This was the inaugural year for Puffin days. It is a celebration of the puffins returned to, um, haystack, rock and cannon beach, the bird huffing the bird, but also as in weed.

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[00:41:28] Jeff Nesbitt: puffins now back in Oregon.

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[00:41:33] Jeff Nesbitt: knew that. Yeah. Did you ever watch

[:

[00:41:40] Jeff Nesbitt: haystack rock. No, it isn't. It's about a, it's about an island off the coast of Ireland or Scotland. It's not in Northern Europe. I've actually done research on this show because I love so much.

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[00:42:09] Madeline Pointer: So what I was going to bring was my piece of art that I did for this art show that has a Puffin on it.

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[00:42:30] Jeff Nesbitt: anyway, so show is made in Europe. Weird. They made it seriously about cannon beach.

[:

[00:42:39] Jeff Nesbitt: It's beautiful.

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[00:42:43] Madeline Pointer: do rainbow without it psychedelic Puffin.

[:

[00:43:22] There you have it. People. Sorry, Madeline. Damian to throw you under the bus. I know this is hard to swallow, but. It's the truth and the truth. Is what we want. It's a great show though check it out if you have

[:

[00:43:52] But that Gores it's amazing. It's the only time I've ever seen it. Drawn on TV. Anyway back to the show[00:44:00]

[:

[00:44:00] Yeah.

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[00:44:05] Madeline Pointer: Yeah. The secret is I was really stressed out about having to paint a Puffin, so I printed a picture and painted over it.

[:

[00:44:14] The life of a coastal artist

[:

[00:44:16] Yeah, exactly. Um, anyway, so puffing days was a lot of

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[00:44:22] Madeline Pointer: That's awesome. Yeah. Um, so my friend, Michelle, um, who is so fucking wonderful, she's just a great human being, you know, she's given me so much confidence in my artistic life. You know, she has this studio in cannon beach and it's also also doubles as a little.

[:

[00:45:09] And I was like, I'm a one. Thank you. Um, so that just, I don't know, it was very validating for me because nobody's ever referred to me that way before I was like, all right, I am actually, but she had invited me to be a part of this art show and everybody had their Puffin art and, um, we served wine insider and we served wine insider.

[:

[00:46:10] Yeah, it'll hit ferns were, um,

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[00:46:17] Madeline Pointer: Absolutely. Wild onions. Spruce tips

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[00:46:26] Madeline Pointer: Yes. I mean, it's so good. It's so good. Um, I just made a bunch of laminated pepper, pepper, daily pappardelle pasta, um, with the wood sorrel in it, and it was beautiful and that was for the foraging dinner.

[:

[00:47:11] Jeff Nesbitt: And did

[:

[00:47:12] Yeah. Cut that into strips this way. So I thought that was pretty, yeah, it was beautiful. So

[:

[00:47:25] Madeline Pointer: So I'm just looking for the menu so I can tell you what was on the.

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[00:47:37] Which I mean, they are. Cause I ate a bunch of them. They're delicious. Yeah. I think that would make a really pretty element to a salad. Yeah. Yeah,

[:

[00:47:52] Jeff Nesbitt: That kind of stuff that I like. That's something that comes with getting old, like getting excited about good [00:48:00] salad.

[:

[00:48:07] Madeline Pointer: but like a really good salad. That's

[:

[00:48:11] Madeline Pointer: It's special. So our menu for the foraging dinner was we made, um, at , which is a Colombian little corn cake.

[:

[00:48:27] Jeff Nesbitt: dough. So it was just, okay, so I've wondered. How do you use nettles? What? I know that they're a popular wild ingredient, but I've never known how, like I know some people make a tea

[:

[00:48:37] Jeff Nesbitt: And is it a food or, or a medicinal?

[:

[00:48:44] You can put it like in pause. You can make pesto with it. You can make a tea and herbal infusion. You can make a tincture, but consuming it in any way is going to give you the medicinal benefit. Which

[:

[00:48:57] Madeline Pointer: well, see if I had a brain that was capable of reading things [00:49:00] and retaining that information, I'd be able to tell you, I should have

[:

[00:49:05] Yeah.

[:

[00:49:30] And then it's

[:

[00:49:52] Madeline Pointer: See, I will do the nettles just for fun. But like the first time it was really, really [00:50:00] uncomfortable and it was on accident. But like after that, when I have intentionally used the nettle sting for like the purpose of healing, it has been just like, I dunno, it's just felt right. And I don't know, I, it might've been a coincidence, but I it's like having this problem in my foot.

[:

[00:50:33] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. It's ridiculous. And a lot of them are fused, but not mobile. Like there it's a joint, but it's not supposed to move and

[:

[00:50:41] Um, but I just like hit the shit out of my foot with these metals and I haven't had any problems since

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[00:50:53] Madeline Pointer: walk yourself with nettles, but I don't know, maybe coincidental. [00:51:00]

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[00:51:01] Madeline Pointer: Yeah. Um, but thank you, Natalie. But anyway, so the we did, uh, pulled trumpet mushroom and an apple habanero relish and the trumpet mushroom was like marinated.

[:

[00:51:43] Sorry, a laminated pappardelle with a roasted Cipollini onions and a wild onion Suby sauce. And, uh, he made mushroom lardons. So that was just like the king trumpets [00:52:00] smoked and deep fried. So they were a little bit crisp. And then,

[:

[00:52:09] Oh yeah. I've actually never had Morales or picked them. They look like they're, I've never picked them. They don't grow around here. It's like east of the mountains. They do grow in here. Really?

[:

[00:52:35] I think it's been, I haven't been up there in a hot minute, but it was logged last time I was there.

[:

[00:52:48] Madeline Pointer: good. Yeah. Um, I would just, just, I drove out to Ben and took the Santiam highway and seeing all that burn damage was crazy.

[:

[00:53:04] Madeline Pointer: I know I would go into work in the morning, you know, when it was just like red sky. And there just be ashes on all the tables. It's like

[:

[00:53:15] Madeline Pointer: Well, yeah, it's in your lungs, but also just like how much more apocalyptic can things get a thin layer of Ash inside of the building because we left the windows open this much and just, yeah.

[:

[00:53:59] If you [00:54:00] look at a graph of the value of the dollar doesn't look good. Nope. Um, and then, so how do you hedge. Crypto not reliable. Right? Like there's just

[:

[00:54:15] Jeff Nesbitt: as yeah. We're in good company on that one. There's not a lot of people in the money right now.

[:

[00:54:41] Who knows? Not me. Nope. Yeah. To be completely honest, this, uh, I have been like avoiding doing podcasting because I have felt very, um, pessimistic about the world. And I don't like to share that. I really, I, it actually bothers me when other people share it [00:55:00] too much. Yeah. Cause I'm just, I feel like I'm barely hanging on here.

[:

[00:55:21] Madeline Pointer: terrible.

[:

[00:55:42] um,

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[00:56:07] Jeff Nesbitt: We think

[:

[00:56:13] I don't know.

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[00:56:24] Madeline Pointer: we've been fed so much disinformation from every angle. Yeah.

[:

[00:56:31] Yeah. And it's, it's very disheartening. Like, I don't know. I used to picture the things that I need to keep me safe and secure and healthy and a big part of that, even though it's, it's difficult for me sometimes is the social community part of it. And just like being a part of something bigger than myself being a, being a contributor to a group that is also going to contribute to me and that maybe a lot of times.

[:

[00:57:21] And it's just, everyone's relying on their base instincts, survival. We like to take care of yours and your own. And that's, uh, that's not, it's not a recipe for a thriving society. It's a recipe for a decline. And that's where, that's the way it feels. And it sucks. It sucks to see that I want to build a world that is good for our kids.

[:

[00:58:02] Jeff Nesbitt: it's almost like we've entered this new chapter in our existence as a species where everything you do is way more important because it's all visible, vast majority of what you do at least in your public life.

[:

[00:58:37] And then everybody's so afraid of like, not getting that person mad again, because like the person who's like calling somebody out for being a bigot or whatever, when really, they just aren't understanding the nuance of the situation. Right. That's not the same thing as calling out actual bigotry. Right.

[:

[00:58:59] Madeline Pointer: so taking [00:59:00] the safe option. It's like, um, it's almost like a degree if you know, what do they call it? Like virtue signaling. And that's like, disgusting. Disgusting. Yeah. Like, can you just shut the fuck up and be about it? Yeah. I don't want it

[:

[00:59:19] Madeline Pointer: see your performance.

[:

[00:59:24] Jeff Nesbitt: and like, even that though is, is like, it's hard to navigate. Yeah, exactly. Especially cause there's so many different movements and just like, uh, From the white male perspective, we're being told to shut the fuck up a lot these days. Right. And then once you do silence is violence.

[:

[00:59:44] Madeline Pointer: what are we doing? Which site are we

[:

[00:59:55] Madeline Pointer: not, no, it's literally impossible. It doesn't

[:

[01:00:07] It's fine. We got to figure out a way to make it work. Yeah. It seems like everything's been driven so polarized that, that we're not ever going to come to workable solutions anymore. Cause no, one's trying to compromise. They're trying to win. Right. And that's, that's

[:

[01:00:32] Like I don't want it, I don't need it. Um, so I can't, I don't understand that mentality of like, I, you know, my, my thought my opinion, my cause is the right one. And how do you know. And just stay teachable, like be willing to change your mind with a new information. Yeah. Most of the

[:

[01:01:03] Madeline Pointer: last smart.

[:

[01:01:17] Madeline Pointer: topics.

[:

[01:01:27] Madeline Pointer: Oh, I wanted to say something about Elon Musk.

[:

[01:01:56] Okay. Yeah. Tell me rich white man. [01:02:00] Tell me of your problems.

[:

[01:02:20] Madeline Pointer: I don't understand those references.

[:

[01:02:42] Huh? I don't really watch any movies. Yeah. I don't want them either, but I do. I do

[:

[01:02:57] started

[:

[01:02:59] Madeline Pointer: I [01:03:00] just don't care enough to look any further than that.

[:

[01:03:20] And every once in a while, on the clear day, if you wiggled the antenna, right. You'd get no 45 minutes of Fox. Sure. Um, so yeah, I had mad about you mash the Simpsons, all of the classics on weeknights between six and 8:00 PM. Yeah. And, , Part of that was like the times when we didn't have it. Cause we'd go months at a time without having it at all.

[:

[01:04:00] And I don't know if that is the reason or if, if, if it's just the way my brain works, but my memory for actors names and the sound of their voice is crazy. Good. Really? Yeah. So if I'm watching a animated show, I'll be able to tell you who all the voice actors are like, as

[:

[01:04:22] Jeff Nesbitt: it's, I don't know why it happened that way, but yeah.

[:

[01:04:44] But I don't watch the movies.

[:

[01:04:51] Jeff Nesbitt: Don't really like those fucking movies. That's like the only movies that are made in. They were, they were good enough to push out all other movies.

[:

[01:05:05] I was like, what is hap like I'm so out of the loop, I haven't heard any of these themes or titles.

[:

[01:05:23] But it's like, you can tell way more of a story in 10 episodes that you can in two hours. I think that's the problem. All the talents go into TV. Yeah. It's a better medium. You can tell a better story that way. Yeah. There's some great shows you watch Netflix shows or anything like that. I

[:

[01:05:43] Yeah. It's really, I don't know. I have a hard time paying attention the whole time and not being like, I could be doing knitting or whatever.

[:

[01:05:57] Madeline Pointer: Can you really watch while you, I

[:

[01:06:01] Madeline Pointer: there's a lot of counting involved. Um, just like you don't want to drop

[:

[01:06:07] You're not just mindlessly knitting. You're not crocheting like some newbie. Well,

[:

[01:06:16] Jeff Nesbitt: I don't know shit about Nemours.

[:

[01:06:24] Jeff Nesbitt: dialogue.

[:

[01:06:25] Jeff Nesbitt: So before we get too off of Ilan.

[:

[01:06:59] The evil [01:07:00] archetype, the gun

[:

[01:07:05] Jeff Nesbitt: So part of that is you need to be able to control the populace and control them in what they believe to be the truth, and also how they behave and what decisions they make. That's not easy in this day and age with everybody knowing that the government is, you know, like starting drug wars and doing a lot of shit that they shouldn't do.

[:

[01:07:45] Madeline Pointer: puts effort into making himself relatable.

[:

[01:08:11] He's pretty good with money. And he just invented PayPal and we could use him PayPal. Yeah. He did invent PayPal, no idea. And he sold it and then, um, he bought Tesla with the money and he bought a bunch of other cool shit to, I just

[:

[01:08:32] Jeff Nesbitt: Oh, I haven't heard about that.

[:

[01:08:54] And despite the fact that we have allowed Detroit and the major auto manufacturers to [01:09:00] completely fucking pulverize, any, any other company's chances of being successful in electric vehicles, we're going to let them let you make it through. And then poof, bippity, boppity, boom, 10 years later, he's the, by far, the highest, highest valued auto company in the world.

[:

[01:09:24] Madeline Pointer: wild. I was actually like, you know, driving to Beaverton four days a week. I see a lot of cars and I was just. I see a Tesla, every other car.

[:

[01:09:44] Jeff Nesbitt: yeah. Yeah. They're normal now wild and because their business model is great. It's fantastic. They, they didn't try to do it the traditional way that they put their stores in malls. Like who, why w why is no one else thought of that you don't need to have [01:10:00] 300 cars available because people are only going to buy one.

[:

[01:10:05] Madeline Pointer: Right. And it's really kind of like, you know, just a sign of the times, honestly, to see that happen. Just how different the consumer market is. And yeah. The direction that everybody like, um, marketing is going. It's very fascinating.

[:

[01:10:29] Definitely how people get around, which Elon has got that on lock on three different levels below the ground. He's got the Hyperloop high-speed trains, high street, high speed rail. I think it's like magnetic powered or something too. It's very high tech on the ground level. He's got Tesla, full auto driving cars that he has full control over.

[:

[01:11:14] He has, I will. So yeah, that's a lot of control. There was a lot of control. And I'm going to guess that a lot of that is government subsidized or done with government grants. Yeah. Uh, I know that he does a lot of fundraising and he's very good at that too, but that, that would be hard to believe that there's no government money involved, like the way that Google earth, uh, that wasn't organic.

[:

[01:11:54] Madeline Pointer: would like to

[:

[01:12:03] I have actually Zuckerberg Elon Musk.

[:

[01:12:09] Jeff Nesbitt: But we're all famous. But these guys from Google who have the biggest company are not right. Makes no sense. It's at, Google's like a faceless. It's not even a real word or it is, but that's a goofy ass word.

[:

[01:12:23] Jeff Nesbitt: real word now.

[:

[01:12:29] Madeline Pointer: is a number.

[:

[01:12:48] Also all the shit that they have control over, uh, is pretty nutty. Like they control the internet, even, even the parts of the internet that they don't own. Right. It's, it's bizarre because there there's a Google blacklist. [01:13:00] If a website is on that list, other browsers will not go to it so that Google can block you.

[:

[01:13:20] Oh yeah. So in addition to the transportation stuff, he owns energy. So he owns, he could the amount of damage that. Inflict on the population. It's just like with the push of a button teetering. Yeah. It's very dangerous. It's almost like we have walked ourselves into a position with a dictator. It's a, he's an economic dictator.

[:

[01:13:57] Madeline Pointer: It would be benevolent. He could be the antichrist. He could be [01:14:00] some level of evil below.

[:

[01:14:05] And that, that has been dropped here to give us this technology that too, you never know, he looks kind of alien alienesque

[:

[01:14:19] Jeff Nesbitt: I listened to her on Lex Friedman's podcast. Yeah. Yeah. It was so good. Yeah. I really like her. She's very thoughtful and like, I love artists.

[:

[01:14:49] Yeah. It's very hard to do

[:

[01:15:00] Jeff Nesbitt: It's not easy. I'm doing it. Just put it into the world. No, but, and she talked about like that process too, of, of just, um, like Lex kept trying to get her to talk about music and she's just like, I'm not really in the music brain right now.

[:

[01:15:35] It is. Um, oh yeah, we were on Ilan. The, so they have a baby, right? I think. Or 2,

[:

[01:15:45] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. So she's probably a very strange and eccentric. Too. Cause he's definitely, and their life would have to be very weird if he's running all these companies and, you know, having meetings with the CIA.

[:

[01:15:58] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. [01:16:00] Oh yeah. He's also got Neuralink. We didn't even talk about that. So he's got transferred too much energy on lock the internet. So what happens when the standard, you know, legacy media, corporations start to go down, we have Starlink, Starlink will save the day it's satellite internet. You can get anywhere in the world.

[:

[01:16:32] Madeline Pointer: taking away monopolization, like all it is. Yeah.

[:

[01:16:45] And that's, that's the end. That's the knee. That's the Dawn of the next chapter. That's when they will be the new elite, the people with the chips versus the people without the chips and the proletariat masses who can't afford the chips or [01:17:00] who don't want them for religious or commonsensical reasons will be the.

[:

[01:17:22] Madeline Pointer: Medical decision.

[:

[01:17:27] Madeline Pointer: one. Step-by-step directions, man.

[:

[01:17:33] I think.

[:

[01:17:36] Jeff Nesbitt: much. If you had a one week opportunity to go get the neuro link before it is a widely available and it's free, but you ha you're a beta tester. What'd you do it? I mean, this thing is sweet. It's basically everything your smartphone does except zero lag time. It's instantaneous and it, and there's no interface.

[:

[01:18:15] Madeline Pointer: it affects your nervous system to the point where you, oh my God.

[:

[01:18:32] Madeline Pointer: but then that comes back to the question. What's the point. If that's everywhere.

[:

[01:18:39] Madeline Pointer: I don't know.

[:

[01:18:43] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. Well, you're going to give some stuff up. Yeah. You're you're going to give up your pain. Okay.

[:

[01:18:52] Jeff Nesbitt: never, honestly, no, I don't think we could. And that's something that we'll probably learn through experience. I just finished this book called [01:19:00] dopamine nation and Olympia, and it's all about the pleasure pain balance and how they're very much on a balance.

[:

[01:19:30] Like, and you feel it when your life is too comfortable for too long, you start to feel very worthless and like, what the fuck am I doing here? I don't know. It's like, it's not what it's for boring. Yeah. It's not what life's meaning is whatever we make it. Things don't have meaning unless we embed it in them.

[:

[01:19:52] Madeline Pointer: Yeah. I don't know. I don't think I would go near link. I really don't. I just, [01:20:00] I think I would like to think that maybe I might try.

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[01:20:16] Madeline Pointer: it wouldn't be authentic to be able to just do these things.

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[01:20:25] Jeff Nesbitt: that's where the meaning comes from. Exactly.

[:

[01:20:35] Jeff Nesbitt: that aspect. Totally. And that does that. And that means something. And if, well, cause you could, you could print it that puffing picture off the internet and you have the picture and it could look awesome, but you didn't make it right.

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[01:21:05] Madeline Pointer: Too little too binary for

[:

[01:21:07] Yeah. Not messy enough. Yeah. I think that's the beauty of us is that we are a messy creature. Fucking messy is so messy. God, all of the best ways. Like if things become too cut and dry, I lose interest completely. I was like, I don't,

[:

[01:21:26] Jeff Nesbitt: clearly been solved, no

[:

[01:21:27] Get me out. Over

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[01:21:31] break start

[:

[01:21:33] Madeline Pointer: your chair.

[:

[01:21:37] Madeline Pointer: I'm glad you think. So I,

[:

[01:21:41] Madeline Pointer: Yeah. It's feels very organic and good. And like, I don't know. I'm not here to prove a point, man.

[:

[01:21:55] Yeah.

[:

[01:22:00] Jeff Nesbitt: well, but I'm doing it. Yeah. I'm very fickle.

[:

[01:22:22] Jeff Nesbitt: difference.

[:

[01:22:33] Jeff Nesbitt: Oh yeah. That'll squeeze this one out

[:

[01:22:44] Jeff Nesbitt: It is very freaky there. I'm sure they're already in people. Oh, most certainly. Yeah. I don't know what to think. Like it's hard to project into the future and what the future is going to look like. I have no idea because it's [01:23:00] fucking weird right now.

[:

[01:23:09] Jeff Nesbitt: go up.

[:

[01:23:15] We'll see.

[:

[01:23:22] Baby Boomers vs Snowflake Millenials

[:

[01:23:28] Jeff Nesbitt: Just tastes good. And doesn't so how, how much do you get involved with politics? Do you follow stuff? Do you like pay attention to what the sentence doing? Do you know who's running for things? Who's our state representative.

[:

[01:23:47] And I think it's because, um,

[:

[01:24:13] Jeff Nesbitt: I don't have, then during world war II, like loved their government. At least it was what we're told, like great, the greatest generation.

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[01:24:37] Madeline Pointer: They had lots of

[:

[01:24:44] Yeah. Yeah. The two two's good. I mean, sorry, meals, but you know, oh yeah. We have a child with the same name. Oh yeah. It's what's do you ever, what, did you have any nicknames for her? Because our, you can call them meals. It's hard not to. Yeah. [01:25:00] I don't. She told me the other day not to call her that anymore.

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[01:25:02] Madeline Pointer: know, my Amelia did the same thing, um, when she was younger, because she's not really adding named kid and I wasn't a nickname kid to now so fine. She can be called what she wants and it's Amelia. Yeah. It's a beautiful name. It is. It's a great name. And I was, when I was pregnant, I was searching for, you know, old fashioned names that weren't popular and then like fear.

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[01:25:28] Jeff Nesbitt: well, yeah, I don't remember exactly how I chose it or where it came from. I just remember that was a similar criteria. I wanted it, something that was traditional, but not overused. Like there are some names out there that, um, are traditional, but like they will never come back.

[:

[01:25:55] Madeline Pointer: though. I like the name Ethel and Esther. Esther

[:

[01:26:04] Madeline Pointer: It sounds like ether.

[:

[01:26:21] Jeff Nesbitt: Did years go by? So

[:

[01:26:28] Jeff Nesbitt: Um, yeah, I got the old snippet clips. Probably not. I probably won't either. Well, that's not a good question then. We're both in fertile.

[:

[01:26:41] Jeff Nesbitt: Oh, I've gone to shit. Anyway.

[:

[01:26:42] Jeff Nesbitt: I actually have one that falls right along with our topics. Um, the Mandela effect. Yeah. What is this? This is new, right? Do you remember ever hearing about that before five years ago? So, if you haven't heard the Mandela effect is named for the phenomenon where [01:27:00] there are massive numbers of people with basically incorrect memories or memories that do not jive with the rest of the collective consciousness.

[:

[01:27:27] I thought he died. And they're like, which that happens. People are just old, old fashioned wrong a lot of the time, but it happened on such a level that it was like thousands and thousands of people. Then it became a thing. And that's now it's known as the Mandela effect. And there are countless examples now of things that just are just a little bit off that people remember differently.

[:

[01:28:15] Madeline Pointer: I think it's, you know, is it is real. I think it's real is that, but like, you don't

[:

[01:28:27] Madeline Pointer: same thing. Yeah, exactly. Um, I think that, I think there are people that misremember things, I think that there is misinformation, that's intentional link women to change linear narrative.

[:

[01:29:08] Like I've got a pretty decent memory for most things. Um,

[:

[01:29:28] I remember it this way. Yeah. It

[:

[01:29:44] Jeff Nesbitt: Do you remember the movie Kazam or shazamm so some people remember that movie being Shaq who become a gene, became a genie and other people remember it being, um, Sinbad.

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[01:30:06] Madeline Pointer: very clear memory of watching it with, at Michael Leach's house as a junior high student. And like on the cover, it was in bad. Like the name, everything

[:

[01:30:46] Sinbad's children doing an interview. And it's crazy. It they're like, apparently there's this has been going on for a long time. And his kids are absolutely certain that [01:31:00] their dad's Sinbad never made a genie movie. It's really bizarre. Uh, anyway, if you want to check out the article, I'm going to put a link to it in the show notes.

[:

[01:31:22] Back to the show.

[:

[01:31:26] But so there, there are multiple ways to interpret that the disconnect and it could be that maybe both of those movies exist. And we'd like, is that the case though? What we can

[:

[01:31:52] Jeff Nesbitt: yeah.

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[01:32:04] Madeline Pointer: I think it's been erased from the. I probably,

[:

[01:32:10] Madeline Pointer: Um, Bernstein Berenstain

[:

[01:32:15] Did, was it Steen or they're staying? I have no idea. It was always stain to me and I always thought it should have been steamed it's like kind of a name is Berenstain. Yeah. So I do remember that, so I don't know there. Yeah. There's also so much potential on the internet for people to just, uh, lie and, and say that they're like, especially on something like this, where it's like, I want to get on that bandwagon of some cool, weird shit happening.

[:

[01:32:58] Pscyhadelics, MDMA, and Trauma therapy

[:

[01:33:03] Madeline Pointer: I don't know. Yes, I agree. But it can be saved my

[:

[01:33:11] Madeline Pointer: um, yeah, just talking to some people after Hannah's wedding the other night, I was saying like, you know, it's probably different for me because I've never had a real negative, um,

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[01:33:41] Jeff Nesbitt: That's exactly what people should do. No kids should be smoking weed. No, absolutely not.

[:

[01:33:48] Madeline Pointer: your kid. Everybody was telling me like, oh, he would hate mushrooms. You would hate them. I'm like, okay, well, I guess I'm not going to do that. But yeah,

[:

[01:33:58] Madeline Pointer: I was like, oh, are you talking about, I [01:34:00] fucking love mushrooms.

[:

[01:34:02] Madeline Pointer: know.

[:

[01:34:13] Jeff Nesbitt: minded or just chronically afraid then. Yeah. But you don't seem like you're that person like you so totally like you're capable of going in and looking around a little bit, poking around asking questions.

[:

[01:34:44] Madeline Pointer: you to look at, uh, situations in your life, , objectively and not be like distraught about them and just say like, oh man, like it's okay.

[:

[01:35:15] Jeff Nesbitt: move on. I feel a very powerful connection to a higher power during those kinds of events. And I mean, you could, I imagine that it will manifest itself differently depending on what you believe or, or what your own personal belief structure looks like.

[:

[01:35:45] Madeline Pointer: Yeah. Yeah. There's like, undoubtedly

[:

[01:36:00] That's our essence of humanity that makes us special. And it's, you can. It can come out in a lot of different ways, but I had one in particular experience that was very profound, where I had been very, very stressed about work.

[:

[01:36:35] Yeah. Reset. Yeah. During the experience at one point I, and like time is weird, so it doesn't, it's not linear all the time. If you, if you detach yourself from linear time, when you're trying to recall a trip, it becomes much easier because it's flashes and moments and feelings just happen.

[:

[01:37:21] Yeah. And it was so profound. And I was I was like watching myself panic and Jesus was with me. And like, like I said, it'd probably be different for people who don't believe in Jesus, but I believe, I believe in Jesus. So Jesus was there and he's like, dude, look at your dumb ass, just panicking about nothing.

[:

[01:38:01] And I did not bring a whole bunch of other nuggets of truth back from that trip. You can't like there's, I don't have a pen. There's nothing to write this shit down with. That's just like, sorry. That's I'm going to have to just try to remember, , and just live it, but that's, but I did bring that back and it, it it's, it helps me to this day it helps me and it's been years it's like, yeah.

[:

[01:38:32] Madeline Pointer: Yeah. I had a similar experience than I was. I was just laying in my bed in my bedroom and I've got a window by my bed and I'm , looking out into the night sky, , and looking at the stars and like a fucking beam of binary code came like in, through my bedroom window and carried me up into the sky with it.

[:

[01:39:19] Jeff Nesbitt: same dude. Yeah,

[:

[01:39:29] Jeff Nesbitt: It's very hard in our ways you can spend a life, um, as a monastic, like sitting in a cave meditating that will do it, that will do it. But, um, you can also just really focus and take a few drugs a couple of days, but I think there's value in both. Yeah. Like the only reason we know that you can do that other ways is because people have done it.

[:

[01:39:55] Madeline Pointer: And that's yeah.

[:

[01:40:22] Madeline Pointer: it was originally formulated for now.

[:

[01:40:35] Jeff Nesbitt: sell. It's called. They called it empathy. That was the name of the drug. Before it became a street drug, they were using it in marriage counseling before they ever used it.

[:

[01:40:55] Madeline Pointer: Well, I was at a rate of once and I had taken MTMA [01:41:00] and uh, prior to it taking effect, I was like, I am the oldest fucking person here. What am I doing with my life? Like, these kids are running into me.

[:

[01:41:26] Jeff Nesbitt: The best thing that drugs do. Cause they, he rode that illusion of, of difference. Illusion of separateness. Yeah. You

[:

[01:41:36] Jeff Nesbitt: And that's all we all want really at the very, like, that's a survival thing.

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[01:41:40] Madeline Pointer: build up a wall inside yourself that you don't even realize or recognize that you're doing. And you're like, Ooh, I need to shake those cobwebs

[:

[01:42:02] You a little bit. Yeah. Let people be able to hurt you. Like yeah. Even if it's risky and it's sometimes yeah. It's like

[:

[01:42:14] Jeff Nesbitt: it, but it, it opens you up to be able to see that we need both sides of the coin, like the yin and the yang and all that. It's, it's, it's a crucial part of the system.

[:

[01:42:26] Madeline Pointer: anymore. It goes back to that pain and pleasure equilibrium. Yeah. You can learn to appreciate the really shitty dark sides of life. Um, because of the joy that you get from the good side, but yeah, same.

[:

[01:42:49] Yeah. Which

[:

[01:42:53] Jeff Nesbitt: It is painful, but it brings good things usually. And that's like a, the, what is it? The [01:43:00] it's been going around the internet. I can't, I can't remember exactly how it goes. Good times. Make weak man or something. Something about how, when prosp prosperity brings about like weak men, weak men bring about, no, fuck it.

[:

[01:43:26] Jeff Nesbitt: Can't do it. Can't can't come up with it. But, um, I think

[:

[01:43:31] Jeff Nesbitt: to say. Have a good thing is a problem. Yeah. Too much prosperity is a problem. We no longer have anything to resist us to push up against and, and work for like people get, and it brings a

[:

[01:43:46] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. And a level of entitlement that is UN, like you can't meet the need. The people people become so entitled when they're so used to just having everything handed to them that they'll never be happy. Right. Like you can never meet that [01:44:00] need because there's always, you could always ask for more. Yeah.

[:

[01:44:12] Madeline Pointer: Striving for something more, but not being like too greedy about

[:

[01:44:22] All these counteracting cliches,

[:

[01:44:37] Jeff Nesbitt: Um, then I'll try it this way. That didn't work. I'll do it another way, Phil downstairs. Yeah, exactly. We'll just get back up and try it again.

[:

[01:44:44] Madeline Pointer: okay. Um, expectations on yourself

[:

[01:45:15] And I saw a video of that and I was astounded by it from this candy. Yeah. And so I did a little bit of research and the way that happens is so there's molecules in there and they get separated and the electrons want to go to both places. So they bounce back and forth and it shows glowing light.

[:

[01:46:02] You know, that

[:

[01:46:33] Like you ever just stand in a Creek barefoot and just feel like totally fucking rejuvenated. Like, oh my God, like I'm cleansed. I'm like alive again. Yeah. It's just nothing better ice, cold water over your feet. Beautiful. Um, I, you know, you would have to look into it more than I know, um, to know like what frequencies that each individual crystal is operating.

[:

[01:46:57] Jeff Nesbitt: very quantifiable, but yeah.

[:

[01:47:10] Jeff Nesbitt: know? Yeah. So do you feel embarrassed using that word? Absolutely not. You look like you did

[:

[01:47:19] I know that, um, It should, it's often looked at as bullshit when I use the word aura.

[:

[01:47:33] Madeline Pointer: Well, right, exactly. Like usually people are going to roll our eyes and be like, oh yeah. Whereas like, oh wait, you don't exist.

[:

[01:47:40] Jeff Nesbitt: want to, you know, that's perfectly all the time because I pick up on people's energy really bad. I, I, I don't like it. I wish that I didn't because it's, uh, it makes it really hard to just feel my own feelings. Cause when I'm in a room with somebody who's putting off really powerful energy, whether that's positive or negative, [01:48:00] you should get some black.

[:

[01:48:05] Madeline Pointer: Black tourmaline. M city. M yeah. And black Onyx. Like those are all like, uh, energy deflectors, negativity, deflectors.

[:

[01:48:22] It doesn't look like it. Bounce shit. Yeah. Whereas something like. Like quartz where you can see through it a little bit. It's like it's got its own essence.

[:

[01:48:37] Jeff Nesbitt: for making countertops well, and it's working great, wonderful, good

[:

[01:48:42] Good energy. Good. I'm glad. Um, yeah, I mean, that's about all I have to say on the topic also. They're super pretty. They are. Yeah. And you can find like the in hydro ones that have little pockets of water in them,

[:

[01:49:03] And so when you can come up with a system to kind of overlay over that existing justification for my stuff and especially one that you can get really into. So like you like with specific, which minerals have, what kind of like frequencies, I could see that becoming a very fun hobby. Yeah. And it's also one of those things that people like to, uh, just poopoo away, like, oh shit,

[:

[01:49:33] Yeah. It's fake witchy magic. Yeah. It's not pseudoscience. It's really

[:

[01:49:53] Yeah. Like things like. Telekinesis. That is not something that, that will [01:50:00] fit within the traditional scientific model because it's it's so like part of, part of the idea is like the observer effect and when, how much of an effect that has like that's if telekinesis is real, it's working through the observer effect.

[:

[01:50:35] It, because our tools don't work to understand them. So I don't, I think that's lazy and a lot of people are very quick to just disregard anything that isn't

[:

[01:50:49] Jeff Nesbitt: it's not definitive. Yeah. You have to be open to some of the mystery, which is really all I give a fuck about

[:

[01:50:59] Jeff Nesbitt: Like if, if [01:51:00] it's already closed book, I don't, I don't want to open it. Like I like the mystery.

[:

[01:51:12] so I've, , made friends with this gentleman who's in his seventies, um, Used to come in to work every single day, , and have his mushroom soup. He, you know, everybody just hated him when I started working there and I was like, okay, I'm going to be nice. Cause why are we being mean? Um, but we've, you know, we've bonded and gotten closer over the last couple of months.

[:

[01:52:09] And I ordered him a couple of them off of Amazon. And like he's been rereading these books and, um, having me read them after he's done with them. And they're all about like this man and his wife and like their assistance and she is a medium and she can communicate with other realms. And, um, it's just really interesting and he's.

[:

[01:52:40] Jeff Nesbitt: in those

[:

[01:52:44] Jeff Nesbitt: Mediums abilities and things like that. Yep. Absolutely. I kind of do in a way, but in a skeptical way, like I think that it's not impossible to contact beings from other dimensions. Yeah. I think that seems reasonable. [01:53:00] Yeah. To be able to confirm that they are a former human seems a little bit more of a stretch.

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[01:53:21] Madeline Pointer: more than likely.

[:

[01:53:34] Remember the time when I told you that I liked your vest and they be like, she really did tell me she loved my dad and you know what I mean, kill your mom. I hated that bitch.

[:

[01:53:51] Jeff Nesbitt: I don't fuck with that spooky shit. No,

[:

[01:53:55] Yeah. Um, I think it's interesting to learn about, and I had, I've definitely [01:54:00] had experiences where I'm like. Well, that was a ghost. So we're just kinda live with that now. But, um,

[:

[01:54:14] Madeline Pointer: Oh yeah. I heard that seems more common. I mean, scene in the sense that I've seen the negative space they're taking up, you know, so

[:

[01:54:27] I think seeing when you're talking about ghosts is any effect that they may have in the physical world, like a gust of wind with no source, it could be seeing a ghost or a door that slammed shut in a house that was built after 1975. Yeah. Because old houses are gusty. Yeah. They're going to slam. Yeah. But a new place, you know, who knows, you know, I worked

[:

[01:54:56] So I was there till midnight or so, and above the [01:55:00] office space was like this hallway that was rooms on either side, you know, you know how a hotel is, um, just hear footsteps running up and down the hallway. It's like dead of winter, totally empty. Like the doors are locked, nobody can go up there and get in there.

[:

[01:55:33] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah, that's great.

[:

[01:55:36] Jeff Nesbitt: creepy. I think about that when I'm watching home renovation shows people are like, they buy those really old houses. I don't even the really cool old houses I'll walk around.

[:

[01:56:16] Madeline Pointer: solid right on track.

[:

[01:56:23] Madeline Pointer: like, , for a lot of things, there's a, a source that it comes from and most things aren't just bullshit. Like there's an evolution of knowledge, a grain of truth. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And finding out where that is is a little bit tricky for some things, but yeah.

[:

[01:57:01] Maybe 20 of them are crazy. Yeah. And maybe just one of them can actually lift up a fucking fellow with his mind who knows I'm open to that possibility. Absolutely. Like given the breakdown of those demographics, the chances of us understanding that on a societal level or accepting it impossible, never

[:

[01:57:20] No. So that leaves me even accept that women need rights.

[:

[01:57:48] Like, I don't know. I mean, as a

[:

[01:58:00] Jeff Nesbitt: and also, I don't know if like the debate as it's presented to me is even the real debate because there's so much of that shit too, with writers on bills and just a misrepresentation of what the actual debate is.

[:

[01:58:14] Madeline Pointer: let's get to know what this actually means instead of just having a knee-jerk reaction and

[:

[01:58:31] No, absolutely not. And this is definitely a complex issue, but it could easily be something very bullshitty. Like maybe the debate is about state's rights and it's not actually about women's right. To choose or whatever. It's about state sovereignty. And you're not hearing that. Right. Because that's, that's another issue.

[:

[01:59:02] Madeline Pointer: under the rug. I mean, regardless of what the actual issue being debated right now is I'm always going to, you know, fight or, you know, fight.

[:

[01:59:24] Jeff Nesbitt: yeah, you gotta be responsible. And you got those people depending on you, not the jail, but yeah, I get that a lot of fucked up things going on the women's rights stuff is, is a surprise to me.

[:

[02:00:02] It's not man. I'm a man. I mean, I don't know

[:

[02:00:24] Jeff Nesbitt: you know, what the fuck the bait is when we were not even doesn't agree with.

[:

[02:00:51] Right. I mean, who would

[:

[02:01:12] Jeff Nesbitt: yeah, I know. That's the thing too is like those, the religions that say like, Hey, you believe a, we believe, or you're going to hell, which that means 99% of the population is going to hell big place.

[:

[02:01:39] Like I personally, I do think that, um, there is some kind of an energy involving thing that, that involves polarity with good and evil.

[:

[02:02:06] Madeline Pointer: Right. What use would it serve?

[:

[02:02:20] Jeff Nesbitt: with a lot of conditions. Yeah, exactly. On a dime. You give me one piece of counter evidence. I'm like, oh, okay. I don't believe that anymore.

[:

[02:02:37] Jeff Nesbitt: much time do you have? Yeah, I don't, I don't, I'm very bad at ranking things. I'm just too thoughtful, I guess, to consider it.

[:

[02:02:49] Jeff Nesbitt: that's why a lot of those, like personality inventories are very difficult because the questions are too short, right?

[:

[02:02:59] Madeline Pointer: I [02:03:00] have more questions about

[:

[02:03:04] Yeah. This world is a complicated place and it seems to be getting trickier all the time, but at least we can come together and talk about it on a podcast. It helps me

[:

[02:03:18] Jeff Nesbitt: People should do that too. Yeah, absolutely. I think about that sometimes, like the, what we are creating to leave, , for future generations, because you think about like archeologists, they find one little drawing on a wall and then they use that to decide what that culture was like.

[:

[02:03:33] Madeline Pointer: interpreted it. That was

[:

[02:03:47] Madeline Pointer: This

[:

[02:03:52] And

[:

[02:04:04] Jeff Nesbitt: I'm sure they did well. Yeah. I mean, they'd have to, that's how society moves in leaps. Exactly. There's

[:

[02:04:11] Jeff Nesbitt: you get about a hundred years of dipshits, not every a hundred years

[:

[02:04:14] Jeff Nesbitt: get somebody who makes a big leap. Sometimes you get a few at once. That's pretty cool. But somebody usually kills one of the extras. Unfortunately. Good. Lucky lawn. All right. Well, it's been two hours. I think we should wrap this thing up. Okay. Thank you so much for coming. It was really fun and we didn't even get to talk about when I made you cry at school.

[:

[02:04:41] Madeline Pointer: No, it was just

[:

[02:04:51] Madeline Pointer: You said nobody fucking cares. I was such a Dick.

[:

[02:05:04] Jeff Nesbitt: All

[:

[02:05:15] Jeff Nesbitt: I don't specifically remember it, but I can put myself in the position of who I was at that time. And I can explain it, like it attracts, like I was at a place where my life felt so shitty that I had to do a lot of work, uh, with self management to make sure I wasn't just constantly either complaining or crying or just like making everyone hate me from being a hard to be around.

[:

[02:06:08] But instead I was just going to shove it all down, pretend everything's great. And that I love life and, um, you know, things are wonderful. Um, so I was like, you were messing that up. You were messing up my plan.

[:

[02:06:25] Jeff Nesbitt: to happen, but from the bottom of my heart, I'm so sorry.

[:

[02:06:39] Madeline Pointer: an asshole. Well, that's

[:

[02:06:43] Madeline Pointer: I will say that, um, many people that I'm friends with that I've ever shared that story with say, that's so weird.

[:

[02:06:56] Jeff Nesbitt: experience? Yeah, I don't, I don't know. But [02:07:00] I'm guessing it was because I was very unhappy. Um, yeah, depending on the year, I was unhappy for different various reasons, but I usually would come up with something.

[:

[02:07:15] Madeline Pointer: like that's something I admire in you is that you seem, I mean, from the limited amount of contact that I have with you, it always seems that you are, um, finding joy in life and a reason to, um, You know, you're finding

[:

[02:07:32] Yeah. We got to put it somewhere. Yeah. That's we'll end on that. Yeah. Thank you guys so much for listening. It's been a pleasure. Talk to you next time.