Shownotes
The Talented Mr. Ripley is a captivating exploration of identity, desire, and moral ambiguity, setting the stage for our 'Party Like It's 1999' Retrospective Series. As we delve into this lush, suspenseful film, we uncover how Tom Ripley's obsession with the privileged Dickie Greenleaf leads to a chilling descent into deception and murder. With standout performances from Matt Damon, Jude Law, and Gwyneth Paltrow, the film elegantly juxtaposes beautiful Italian landscapes with the dark undercurrents of its characters' psyches. We discuss the film's masterful cinematography, its complex themes of envy and aspiration, and how it challenges audiences to empathize with a sociopathic protagonist. Join us as we reflect on the impact of this 1999 classic and its place in the pantheon of unforgettable cinema from one of the greatest movie years ever.
Joining us in our discussion is friend of the show and film producer, David Merrill
Time Stamps
Chapters:
- 01:12 - Welcome to Back to the Frame Rate
- 10:41 - Welcoming back Dave Merrill and Exploring Tailoring and Fashion in Italy
- 13:25 - Discussion of The Talented Mr. Ripley
- 01:19:36 Final Thoughts, Ratings, and VAULT DECISION
- 01:30:41 - Movie Pairings
- 01:35:13 - Wrap-up / Next week 'Election' from Alexander Payne
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Transcripts
In the dying embers of human existence.
Narrator:As the asteroid of Behemoth, the sides of Texas hurdles relentlessly toward Earth, the world braces for an apocalyptic end.
Narrator:Deep beneath the bunker, a refuge plunges into the bowels of the earth.
Narrator:Here the chosen gather their purpose clear to preserve the very soul of our civilization.
Narrator:The 35 and 70 millimeter prints that encapsulate the magic, the emotion and the dream of generations past.
Narrator:These masterpieces, each frame a testament to the human spirit, are carefully cataloged and cradled in the cavernous confines of the bunker.
Narrator:Perhaps there was room for more, for friends and family yearning for salvation.
Narrator:But sacrifices must be made.
Narrator:The movie nerds stand united, the keepers of a flame promising a future where the art of storytelling endures, transcending the boundaries of time and space.
Narrator:God help us all.
Nathan Shore:Welcome to Back to the Frame Rate, part of the Westin Media Podcast Network.
Nathan Shore:Join us as we watch and discuss films on VOD and streaming platforms, deliberating on whether each one is worthy of salvation or destined for destruction in the face of the impending asteroid apocalypse.
Nathan Shore:You can find more episodes of this podcast on backtotheframerate.com or you can subscribe and share our show and find us on our socials at Back to the Frame Rate.
Nathan Shore:I am Nathan Shore, and accompanying me is the extraordinary movie maven, Brianna Butterworth.
Nathan Shore:And filling in for Sam today is returning champion, the Graceland Cinema Sage, Dave Merrill.
Brianna Butterworth:Hello.
Dave Merrill:Welcome, Dave.
Nathan Shore:I worked hard on thinking of some cheesy nickname for you.
Nathan Shore:You're welcome to rewrite it.
Brianna Butterworth:No, I love it.
Brianna Butterworth:Actually, I would say I would not think to do that myself, but that's, you know, in the name of the King.
Brianna Butterworth:And that being Elvis Presley, I accept.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:Well, it's great to have you back again for another episode of our podcast.
Nathan Shore:It's always a pleasure, all the insight and wisdom you bring to our podcast.
Nathan Shore:Thank you.
Nathan Shore:You know, before we get into our discussion of this movie, we were talking about the talented Mr.
Nathan Shore:Ripley.
Nathan Shore:What's going on with you?
Nathan Shore:Give us a 60 second little synopsis of what's going on in your life.
Brianna Butterworth:Is that to me or is that to me?
Nathan Shore:That's to you.
Nathan Shore:We all.
Nathan Shore:We know what's going on in Bee's life.
Nathan Shore:You know we do.
Nathan Shore:Can you tell us just a little bit what this project was?
Nathan Shore:Just some context.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:So, okay, so the basic, you know, the basic concept for it is that it is, you know, and I hate talking in media shorthand, but I sort of feel like I have to.
Brianna Butterworth:It's basically, if you if you took the X Files, but you moved it back to turn of the century and you placed it in Europe, but the protagonist is an African American priest that works as an exorcist investigator for the Vatican, but you have other characters in other parts of Europe, occultists and spies and people like that, and all of the occult activity that was happening just prior to the outbreak of World war.
Brianna Butterworth:And that's the basic premise for the show.
Brianna Butterworth:And I mean.
Brianna Butterworth:And, you know, if that's not, you know, enough, I could kind of pepper it with, you know, that, you know, the themes that are involved, you know, Cryptids and, you know, demons and demonology and the occult and, you know, things that go bump at the night, so.
Dave Merrill:Oh, that sounds amazing.
Nathan Shore:Sounds really cool.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, I just was hoping that.
Nathan Shore:I just wanted to see if there's any recent updates for it because you gave us a pretty detailed synopsis of what was going on a couple months ago, so.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:So working, I mean, to put pressure.
Nathan Shore:On you on the spot.
Nathan Shore:I'm sorry I did that, but.
Brianna Butterworth:No, no, no, no, no, no.
Brianna Butterworth:It's.
Brianna Butterworth:But it is.
Brianna Butterworth:It's the old.
Brianna Butterworth:It's the old joke of, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, how do you piss off a writer?
Brianna Butterworth:You ask them how it's going.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, actually, it doesn't piss me off.
Brianna Butterworth:It doesn't smell like it's actually, it helps me to hear people.
Brianna Butterworth:It helps me hear people go, wow, no, that's not crap.
Brianna Butterworth:That's a good idea.
Dave Merrill:I think it is a good idea.
Dave Merrill:I'm excited for it.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:When you do your traveling, do you seek out, like, ever look for movie locations?
Brianna Butterworth:Of course I do.
Brianna Butterworth:It's a.
Nathan Shore:What's the coolest movie location that you sought out on one of your adventures?
Brianna Butterworth:Well, so, you know, I guess in, you know, in prepping for this, you know, I would tell you that both.
Brianna Butterworth:That I had to find.
Brianna Butterworth:There are certain places that I wanted to find in Italy, you know, relating to talented Mr.
Brianna Butterworth:Ripley.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, I mean, and I think I told you before that the trip before this previous, this most recent trip, I stayed in the town of Otrani, which was the filming location for the Netflix series Ripley.
Brianna Butterworth:But then this last time, you know, we actually found sites.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, we found sites in Rome and outside of Rome where they shot certain scenes for talent and Mr.
Brianna Butterworth:Ripley, you know, there's a.
Brianna Butterworth:I'm trying to think of.
Brianna Butterworth:I will butcher the Italian name of the piazza that is also the museum, but it's the one where.
Brianna Butterworth:It's one where there's A giant.
Brianna Butterworth:There's a giant foot.
Brianna Butterworth:And, you know, Matt Damon is.
Brianna Butterworth:Ripley is in front of these statues.
Brianna Butterworth:And then there's a big one of Constantine.
Brianna Butterworth:And, you know, so we saw that.
Brianna Butterworth:But then a bunch of the.
Brianna Butterworth:A bunch of the, like, the Piazza Di.
Brianna Butterworth:Which I promised.
Brianna Butterworth:I had promised my dear departed mother that I would see the Piazza di Espagna.
Brianna Butterworth:Because when we saw the movie Ripley together, she actually, she could.
Brianna Butterworth:She's.
Brianna Butterworth:I don't believe in.
Brianna Butterworth:I was like, what is it?
Brianna Butterworth:She's.
Brianna Butterworth:The Piazza di.
Brianna Butterworth:Is never that deserted.
Brianna Butterworth:It's never.
Brianna Butterworth:She goes, how did they do that?
Brianna Butterworth:I'm like, movie magic, mom.
Brianna Butterworth:Movie magic.
Brianna Butterworth:And so.
Brianna Butterworth:And I was thinking about us.
Brianna Butterworth:Nathan was like, thinking, yeah, we would be.
Brianna Butterworth:If we were working on that, we would be the guys, you know, tasked with shooing away people, you know, please stay away.
Brianna Butterworth:We're shooting something.
Brianna Butterworth:So lots of locations from, you know, from that.
Brianna Butterworth:And then, I don't know, there was, you know, there was a lot of places in Ireland that I saw, and I was like, you know, I thought I'd recognize from Game of Thrones, you know, I'm pretty sure, you know, inadvertently stumbled upon, you know, sites where they shot, you know, Game of Thrones.
Brianna Butterworth:And then there's another Netflix series about the Irish rebellion called actually the Irish Revolution called Rebellion.
Brianna Butterworth:And I know for a fact that we, you know, we saw because we visited.
Brianna Butterworth:We visited Trinity College, we visited Dublin Castle.
Brianna Butterworth:So I know that we saw sites there related to that.
Dave Merrill:Dave, I fully thought you were going to say Derry Girls.
Brianna Butterworth:I know.
Brianna Butterworth:Here's the sad thing.
Dave Merrill:I love that show, though.
Brianna Butterworth:I love that show.
Brianna Butterworth:We only started really watching it, and we binge watched it.
Brianna Butterworth:The minute that we got back, you know, we're like, we found it.
Brianna Butterworth:And then I was like, you know, this another friend of mine really recommended.
Brianna Butterworth:I was like, you know what?
Brianna Butterworth:Look, let's give it a shot.
Brianna Butterworth:And we just could not stop laughing and could not watching that show.
Brianna Butterworth:That is a fantastic show.
Brianna Butterworth:I absolutely love Derry Girls.
Brianna Butterworth:It's great.
Brianna Butterworth:It's great.
Brianna Butterworth:And now, having had the experience and talk to Irish people, it was like, this is so spot on, perfect and funny.
Brianna Butterworth:And I see our director over there is.
Dave Merrill:This is our Derry Girl podcast now, taking over.
Dave Merrill:Hope everybody likes it.
Brianna Butterworth:I also, having survived Catholic school, I loved the role of Sister George Michael.
Dave Merrill:Yes.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Dave Merrill:She reminds me.
Dave Merrill:My mother went to Catholic school and she reminds me of the storied nuns that I heard about.
Brianna Butterworth:It's an experience.
Brianna Butterworth:If you have an experience that it's Hard to explain to people, but, you know, because they go, oh, Catholics come.
Brianna Butterworth:Like, no, you.
Brianna Butterworth:Unless you know people.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, yeah, it's a thing.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, it was wonderful.
Brianna Butterworth:It was really great.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, and the whole thing of the little phrases that they use.
Brianna Butterworth:What's the crack?
Brianna Butterworth:Or are you cracking?
Brianna Butterworth:Cracking on or you taking a piss?
Brianna Butterworth:Or.
Brianna Butterworth:But then.
Brianna Butterworth:Which I learned, you don't say in Ireland, you say taking the piss.
Brianna Butterworth:You say taking the mick.
Brianna Butterworth:Are you taking the mix?
Brianna Butterworth:And, yeah, we actually had a fun time asking, you know, Nate, the native Irish, about, you know, what do you guys really say?
Brianna Butterworth:You know, and they, you know, they're kind of like, yes.
Dave Merrill:Feels like you were channeling Mr.
Dave Merrill:Ripley a little bit here.
Brianna Butterworth:Well, try it.
Dave Merrill:Just blending.
Dave Merrill:Blending in, David.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:Sans murder.
Dave Merrill:Well, don't count your chickens.
Nathan Shore:You know, I read in my research that many people after this movie wanted to create a whole Taylor, Mr.
Nathan Shore:Ripley wedding theme.
Nathan Shore:This movie.
Nathan Shore:This is a thing.
Dave Merrill:That's terrible.
Nathan Shore:Minus the murder.
Dave Merrill:You know what I was thinking?
Dave Merrill:If we're talking like Pinterest inspo.
Dave Merrill:Movie.
Dave Merrill:Pinterest style, inspo.
Dave Merrill:Weirdly, I got kind of an American Gigolo vibe, you know, David, we did American Gigolo last year, and we talked about the Armani influence with Richard Gere.
Dave Merrill:And I could easily have seen that if they had stuck to a certain brand for.
Dave Merrill:For this film with all the.
Dave Merrill:It's just everything is so tailored.
Dave Merrill:And I was like, brother, gorgeous.
Nathan Shore:You know, a couple times a year I watch the movie that makes me completely want to throw away my wardrobe, right?
Nathan Shore:And American Gigolo was the one last year.
Nathan Shore:This movie, this year.
Nathan Shore:I looked at my wardrobe like crap.
Dave Merrill:God, I'm such a slob.
Brianna Butterworth:Okay.
Brianna Butterworth:I'm in a mini.
Brianna Butterworth:In one way.
Brianna Butterworth:I am so relieved to hear you both bring that up, because here's the thing.
Brianna Butterworth:So confessing to my cousin, who is.
Brianna Butterworth:He's a New Yorker.
Brianna Butterworth:I mean, he lives in Manhattan.
Brianna Butterworth:And we were talking about, you know, we're talking about the trip to Italy.
Brianna Butterworth:And I said, okay.
Brianna Butterworth:So, you know, because he.
Brianna Butterworth:Okay to describe this.
Brianna Butterworth:My cousin is the type of guy.
Brianna Butterworth:He has three tailors in Manhattan and two custom shirt makers.
Brianna Butterworth:He's that kind of guy.
Dave Merrill:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:Which, I mean, this.
Brianna Butterworth:I don't mean this.
Brianna Butterworth:I'm not respect.
Brianna Butterworth:I mean this out of respect.
Brianna Butterworth:And so I said, so look, in the film, you know, he talks about this tailor that he's going to get, you know, Ripley.
Brianna Butterworth:I mean, I'm sorry, Jude Law's character, you know, Rick Dickie, you know, teases you know Ripley and says, I'm going to get you a new jacket when you go to Beta Stone.
Brianna Butterworth:The best, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:And my cousin kind of, you know, kind of looked at me and he laughed and he said, he was like.
Brianna Butterworth: es, yeah, that, you know, for: Brianna Butterworth:He goes, but the truth is that he wouldn't have.
Brianna Butterworth:If they were living in the southern part in Amalfi, he wouldn't have gotten tailoring in Rome, where it's very pedestrian.
Brianna Butterworth:He would have gone to.
Brianna Butterworth:He would have gone to a place in Naples.
Brianna Butterworth:As a matter of fact, I'm going to take you there because I've scheduled an appointment.
Brianna Butterworth:I've scheduled an appointment with a tailor shop.
Dave Merrill:Oh, my God, David, you're living my dream.
Brianna Butterworth:I'm having some suits made.
Brianna Butterworth:And he goes, and I've also found a custom shirt maker.
Brianna Butterworth:So we'll.
Brianna Butterworth:So, you know, if you want, you can go with me to both.
Brianna Butterworth:And I'm like, are you kidding me?
Brianna Butterworth:I am going with you.
Brianna Butterworth:So he goes, it's not Battistoni.
Brianna Butterworth:It's actually these two Italian brothers that inherited the business from their father, which I believe was started by their grandfather, Giardi.
Brianna Butterworth:And so we go into this.
Brianna Butterworth:We go to this tailor shop, which you'll see it's not like you go into a mall and there it is.
Dave Merrill:Sure.
Brianna Butterworth:You walk through this residential neighborhood and then there's this grand older, big building that you walk in, and then there's a courtyard and there's a concierge.
Brianna Butterworth:And then you tell this person behind the little glass and wood booth, and then he points it out and then he kind of buzzes them.
Brianna Butterworth:And so we walk in through and then boom, there you are.
Brianna Butterworth:And there are these two.
Brianna Butterworth:There are these two middle aged Italian brothers, the Giardi brothers.
Brianna Butterworth:And I wish I'd known.
Brianna Butterworth:I would have sent Nathan, I would have sent you like, photographs, because I took photographs of this place.
Brianna Butterworth:Totally charming little place.
Brianna Butterworth:You go into this one little, like, den area that they have, which is like an old office.
Brianna Butterworth:It's got this big.
Brianna Butterworth:These big, you know, leather Chesterfield sofas, and then, you know, bookshelves and books and books and books.
Brianna Butterworth:But they're actually sample books of cloth.
Brianna Butterworth:Okay.
Brianna Butterworth:And then you go into the other room and then, you know, that's where their cutting table is and then all the measuring stuff.
Brianna Butterworth:And they go in and so they start measuring my cousin.
Brianna Butterworth:And then they're writing down, and then they bring out the books of cloth and they're like, you know, ah, you know, you're Thinking, is this.
Brianna Butterworth:What season is this for?
Brianna Butterworth:Is this for spring?
Brianna Butterworth:Is it?
Brianna Butterworth:You going to be wearing this to work?
Brianna Butterworth:Are you going to be wearing this for casual and all this stuff?
Brianna Butterworth:And he's going through and collecting all this cloth and it's just this.
Brianna Butterworth:You could have done a whole documentary just based on this.
Nathan Shore:This is wonderful.
Brianna Butterworth:And then they offer you.
Brianna Butterworth:But then also.
Brianna Butterworth:And I learned this is also like a custom, apparently.
Brianna Butterworth:And then they're like, ah, cafe.
Nathan Shore:Yes.
Dave Merrill:You know, which is just the luxury store.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, please.
Dave Merrill:Oh, my God.
Dave Merrill:That's some Pretty Woman.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Dave Merrill:Have you.
Dave Merrill:Did you see that Italian documentary about truffles?
Dave Merrill:The old men who just hunt truffles with their dogs and lie to their wives about it?
Dave Merrill:This is very.
Brianna Butterworth:That I don't know, but we did my.
Brianna Butterworth:We just watched Pig with Nicholas Cage.
Dave Merrill:Also good.
Brianna Butterworth:Great.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, my Lord.
Brianna Butterworth:That was beautiful.
Nathan Shore:Oh, yeah.
Dave Merrill:I love that movie.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Dave Merrill:All right, this is our podcast about.
Brianna Butterworth:Okay.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:All right.
Nathan Shore:Reign this back in for a moment.
Nathan Shore:We're going to talk about the talented Mr.
Nathan Shore:Ripley.
Nathan Shore:I am going to start with a plot synopsis and the trailer for this.
Nathan Shore:And we're going to get into the details of this film here in late.
Dave Merrill:1950S, I guess, if you want, in.
Nathan Shore: Late: Nathan Shore:We could do a splash podcast.
Dave Merrill:All you do is that chip and lie.
Nathan Shore:I am okay with that, but we might not keep our audience and we should rename it to something else.
Nathan Shore:I don't know.
Nathan Shore: Anyways, in the late: Nathan Shore:But when the errand fails, Ripley takes extreme measures.
Nathan Shore:Here is part of the trailer.
Narrator:Thomas Ripley lived a solitary life until a wealthy man offered him an extraordinary opportunity.
Brianna Butterworth:Did you ever conceive of going to Italy?
Dave Merrill:I'd pay you to pursue.
Brianna Butterworth:Persuade my son to come home.
Nathan Shore:Dicky Greenleaf.
Brianna Butterworth:It's Tom.
Brianna Butterworth:Tom Ripley.
Brianna Butterworth:We were at Princeton together.
Dave Merrill:How do you do?
Brianna Butterworth:You're so white.
Nathan Shore:Do you ever see a guy so white?
Nathan Shore:Marge, you know, you should come and.
Dave Merrill:Have lunch with us.
Narrator:Now he's in a world he always dreamed of.
Nathan Shore:No, I like him.
Brianna Butterworth:Marge, you like everybody.
Brianna Butterworth:Marge, you like everybody.
Nathan Shore:All right, I'm cutting.
Nathan Shore:It's a great trailer.
Nathan Shore: who tragically passed away in: Nathan Shore:Had a really great but short run.
Nathan Shore:Early this year, we reviewed the English Patient.
Nathan Shore:So this is our second film.
Nathan Shore:From his this year alone.
Nathan Shore: go on to do Cold Mountain in: Nathan Shore:Those are like the really the big three bangers.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore: so has a Great career witness: Nathan Shore:Gorillas in the Mist, Rain Man, Dead Poets Society, the Firm, and Mad Max.
Nathan Shore:Fury Road from only almost 10 years ago now.
Nathan Shore:Crazy.
Dave Merrill:And it's crazy how much more I think about Fury Road than I think about Furiosa.
Brianna Butterworth:Sure.
Nathan Shore:And music by Gabriel Yared, who such a big imprint on this movie as well.
Nathan Shore:The cast.
Nathan Shore:We got Matt Damon as Tom Ripley, Gwyneth Paltrow, Marge Sherwood, Jude Laws, Dickie Greenleaf, Cate Blanchett as Meredith Logue, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Freddie Miles, in my opinion, actor of his generation, Jack Davenport as Peter Smith Kingsley.
Nathan Shore:Philip Baker hall eating up the scenery in his five minutes on screen.
Nathan Shore:And James Rebhorn, known as man in a Suit in almost every movie he's in as Herbert Greenleaf.
Nathan Shore:Okay, I'm gonna put this out right now.
Nathan Shore:Is this the most well cast movie of all time?
Dave Merrill:I was gonna say it's insane how stacked this is it.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:And then, and also you take into account there are things like Jude Law turned down the part three times.
Brianna Butterworth:Three times he turned it down.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, and then, you know, and then there's the, you know, there's the odd thing of, you know, Mengele himself, who, you know, until English Patient, you know, they hired him to write the screenplay, but it was a thing of.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, but he can't, you know, but they weren't even going to consider him to be a director.
Brianna Butterworth:But then the English Patient came out.
Nathan Shore:And John Malkovich wanted to do this movie, or before Mangella.
Nathan Shore:Interesting.
Nathan Shore:Tom Cruise was the original choice for Tom Ripley.
Brianna Butterworth:Yep, I can see that.
Nathan Shore:Also Leonardo DiCaprio and Christian Bale were considered for this.
Dave Merrill:I get that.
Dave Merrill:I do.
Nathan Shore:I love.
Nathan Shore:This is my favorite piece of trivia from this.
Nathan Shore:The film inspired Tommy Wiseau to make the Room because he was so emotionally moved by it.
Nathan Shore:He want, he vowed to make a film just as, if not more compelling.
Dave Merrill:I've still never seen the room.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, I told you.
Dave Merrill:I know.
Dave Merrill:Nathan's gonna lock me in a room and with Sam.
Dave Merrill:And we're gonna watch it.
Brianna Butterworth:You need to watch it, but you also need to watch or read the Disaster Artist.
Brianna Butterworth:And so when the book came out, which was written by his, you know, his partner and his chief actor and that the guy, the author of the Disaster Artist Actually, before the film came out, when the book came out, he did a tour and he came to Memphis and actually got to meet him.
Brianna Butterworth:Nathan and I were in Hollyweird at the time because I remember seeing those billboards with Tommy Wiseau and it was like.
Brianna Butterworth:I remember asking friends of mine like, who the hell.
Brianna Butterworth:And they're like, oh, it's probably an actor trying to get roles.
Brianna Butterworth:I'm like, people really do that?
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, all sorts of.
Nathan Shore:Few other things.
Nathan Shore:I'm sorry, go ahead.
Dave Merrill:I was going to say my favorite piece of sort of bizarro casting is how incredible they got Cate Blanchett and Gwyneth Paltrow to mirror each other right in this movie.
Dave Merrill:Oh, my God.
Nathan Shore:Blanchett with an American accent is just kind of breaks my brain a little bit.
Nathan Shore:She doesn't play Americans very often.
Nathan Shore:She's Australian, right?
Dave Merrill:Yes.
Dave Merrill:When she does, they're very rich.
Nathan Shore:Yes.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:This was a budget of 40 million, which would be about 75 million today.
Nathan Shore:And box office 128.7 million 241 today on today's standards.
Nathan Shore: ,: Nathan Shore:Stacked year.
Nathan Shore:Speaking of stacked year, I'll just mention a few of the awards nominations.
Nathan Shore:It got five nominations at the Academy Awards.
Nathan Shore:Only nominate, didn't win anything.
Nathan Shore:But best supporting actor, Jude Law lost to Michael Caine for the Cider House Rules.
Nathan Shore:Best adapted screenplay.
Nathan Shore:Also lost the Cider House Rules.
Nathan Shore:I kind of wonder if the Cider House Rules holds up.
Nathan Shore:I saw it one time in the theater.
Nathan Shore:I have not seen it since I liked, but I don't remember much.
Dave Merrill:It's pretty good.
Dave Merrill:I watched it like five or six years ago.
Nathan Shore:Best original score, lost to the Red Violin.
Nathan Shore:Never saw it.
Nathan Shore:Best production design, Lost a Sleepy Hollow.
Nathan Shore:I gotta revisit that.
Nathan Shore:I don't know about that, but yeah.
Nathan Shore:Best costume design, lost to Topsy Turvy.
Nathan Shore:So you know what?
Nathan Shore:Tough year, though.
Nathan Shore:Tough year.
Brianna Butterworth:I'm just.
Dave Merrill:These were the picks for 99 because it like in a stacked year.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, that's what we came up with, huh?
Dave Merrill:Academy.
Nathan Shore:Yep.
Nathan Shore:And came out the same weekend as any given Sunday, which was opened at number.
Nathan Shore:The movies that came out this at this time were insane.
Nathan Shore:Any given Sunday opened at number one.
Nathan Shore:13.5 million.
Nathan Shore:This debuted number two just below it at 12.7.
Nathan Shore:Stuart Little was number three in the box office.
Nathan Shore:Toy Story 2 was number four at the box office.
Nathan Shore:The Green Mile was number five at the box office in its third week.
Nathan Shore:And I usually stop there, but I have to mention this because to other movies Were significant at number six.
Nathan Shore:They debuting at number six was man on the Moon also debuted at was 7.7 million in its opening week in Galaxy Quest movie we're going to be reviewing in a month for our 100 live show debuted with 7 million in its opening week.
Nathan Shore:I mean, when was the last time four big movies opened on the same day?
Brianna Butterworth:That's the other thing.
Brianna Butterworth:They don't.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, that's.
Brianna Butterworth:It doesn't really happen that way anymore.
Brianna Butterworth:And I would just say when we get to that point, I have a.
Brianna Butterworth:I have an.
Brianna Butterworth:I have a Galaxy Quest industry story.
Brianna Butterworth:It's very.
Brianna Butterworth:When we get.
Brianna Butterworth:When you get to that point, it's very brief.
Nathan Shore:We'll get there.
Nathan Shore:You got to come to Massachusetts in January.
Brianna Butterworth:There you go.
Nathan Shore:Then you can stand up in our audience.
Nathan Shore:We'll plant you and you can look like.
Nathan Shore:We can look smart and you can look smart and you know it'll be perfect.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Okay, so this film, we could just talk about how this movie opens.
Nathan Shore:We got this real incredible Saul Bass, like in style.
Nathan Shore:Like opening credits I had.
Nathan Shore:But first of all, I just want to say I saw this in 19.
Nathan Shore: Well, probably right after: Nathan Shore: ll the way back to January of: Nathan Shore: th of January: Nathan Shore:Want to hear something really sad and you're going to shame me.
Nathan Shore:I gave this originally a 5 out of 10.
Dave Merrill:Wow, that was really dumb.
Nathan Shore:And I think it's because the 25 year old version of Nathan didn't get this movie.
Nathan Shore:Didn't understand.
Nathan Shore:And this is.
Nathan Shore:What is this movie?
Nathan Shore:And I think this is not a movie that is meant for really a general audience.
Nathan Shore:So it's a heart.
Nathan Shore:It's kind of a hard sell if you don't know what it is.
Nathan Shore:And I went into this.
Nathan Shore:Is this a mystery?
Nathan Shore:Is this a drama?
Nathan Shore:Is this.
Nathan Shore:It didn't really fall into any category.
Nathan Shore: And in: Nathan Shore:And this movie was.
Nathan Shore:Did not really vibe with me at the time.
Nathan Shore:I've seen this movie now probably four times.
Nathan Shore:Every time I see this, it gets better and better.
Nathan Shore:And I now love this film.
Nathan Shore:But no, this movie was just like, I don't know what to make of this.
Nathan Shore:So it was just kind of.
Nathan Shore:It didn't work for me originally.
Nathan Shore:Just want to throw that out there.
Nathan Shore:But I have completely turned around on this.
Nathan Shore:Every.
Nathan Shore:I see this probably every 10 years.
Nathan Shore:And I.
Dave Merrill:That's not often enough, honestly.
Brianna Butterworth:I agree.
Brianna Butterworth:I agree.
Brianna Butterworth:I agree with Be.
Dave Merrill:This movie is beautiful.
Dave Merrill:It's one of those movies that every time I watch it, there's a new layer.
Dave Merrill:It's just so three dimensional.
Dave Merrill:I feel like I can just reach into the screen.
Dave Merrill:It's so textured.
Dave Merrill:And there's really, truly something to uncover every time I watch it.
Dave Merrill:Whether it's an interpretation or a glance from the characters or something with the score, there's really something new to behold every time.
Dave Merrill:But even just on your first watch, if you're normal, not.
Nathan Shore:I love it Now, I know 25.
Dave Merrill:Years, but I can see it because there's a lot to this movie.
Dave Merrill:But I think it's so striking, you know, that's why I fell in love with it.
Dave Merrill:It's just so gorgeous to look at.
Nathan Shore:I want to talk about the details of this film.
Nathan Shore:Sorry, Dave, go ahead.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, no, I was just going to say that if we're also.
Brianna Butterworth:If we're talking about.
Brianna Butterworth:You're talking about the, you know, the opening of the film.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:And, you know, an overall.
Brianna Butterworth:So the thing is.
Brianna Butterworth:And this is one of those things where, you know, I saw it and I was always kind of struck by, you know, the opening song or the opening score.
Brianna Butterworth:I don't really know why.
Brianna Butterworth:And.
Brianna Butterworth:But I feel now, and this is, you know, this.
Brianna Butterworth:I feel compelled to mention this because again, you know, having just returned from Ireland, you know, I started thinking about all these, you know, Irish artists and, you know, and actors and all these people that, you know, that I've been influenced by or that I've loved through the years.
Brianna Butterworth:The opening song that you hear is Lullaby for Cain sung by Sinead O'Connor.
Brianna Butterworth:So.
Brianna Butterworth:And, you know, I would just say that, you know, that, you know, you know, you should if, you know, if you go back and you listen and you actually listen to just the song as part of, you know, as part of the soundtrack, you know, there's a.
Brianna Butterworth:I mean, this is part of the layering of Mengele, the genius part of it is that he is really foreshadowing from.
Brianna Butterworth:Not even from the first line, but really, I guess you would say from the first lines of that song, because he talks about, you know, there's a line in the thing.
Brianna Butterworth:There's a line in.
Brianna Butterworth:There's a line from the song that says, innocent eyes, such innocent eyes Envy stole your brother's life.
Brianna Butterworth:Okay, so this is Mengele, you know, really telling you through song, this is what's about to happen.
Brianna Butterworth:This Is the story you're about to see.
Dave Merrill:Foreshadowing.
Brianna Butterworth:Foreshadowing, which has done, you know, really well throughout the film.
Brianna Butterworth:Anyway, I love.
Nathan Shore:I love the introduction of this.
Nathan Shore:What do you think about the introduction to Tom?
Nathan Shore:Because first of all, we know he's ambitious, he's smart.
Nathan Shore:I like how he actually ascends out of the bowels of the earth to come up.
Nathan Shore:He's calling up a ladder.
Nathan Shore:And that's.
Nathan Shore:I think that's also kind of foreshadowing and represents who he is as a person.
Nathan Shore:He wants.
Nathan Shore:Well, he doesn't.
Nathan Shore:I don't think he quite knows what he wants in life yet, but I like that it shows him.
Nathan Shore:Like, he's like, he could take any job in the world, you know, he.
Nathan Shore:But he chooses to take jobs like being.
Nathan Shore:Working in these opera hall bathrooms and these other gigs.
Nathan Shore:So he kind of knows he wants to be in this world of, like, of the arts and in music and.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:And I just like that he's got this ambition.
Brianna Butterworth:Sure.
Nathan Shore:To him.
Nathan Shore:And it's just by chance that he gets these opportunities.
Brianna Butterworth:Well, yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:And as we say is that if you remember that.
Brianna Butterworth:If you remember which.
Brianna Butterworth:The ascent, you know, from, you know, from his basement apartment, that's a very valid, you know, visual theme.
Brianna Butterworth:If you remember the scene, you know, the scene prior, where he's playing piano at this garden party in New York overlooking Central Park.
Brianna Butterworth:So he's part of this group, you know, he's part of this group, this rarefied New York strata, you know, society.
Brianna Butterworth:And, you know, it's the mistaken identity because he's wearing the bl.
Brianna Butterworth:The borrowed blazer, you know, of this friend.
Brianna Butterworth:It's got the Princeton, you know, the Princeton, you know, coat of arms on the breast pocket.
Brianna Butterworth:And so the father says, oh, you must have.
Brianna Butterworth:You must know our son Dickie.
Brianna Butterworth:He was at Princeton.
Brianna Butterworth:He graduated, you know, class of 50, you know, whatever it was, you know, and quite an assumption.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, how is.
Brianna Butterworth:How is.
Brianna Butterworth:How is Dickie?
Brianna Butterworth:You know, and he just kind of like goes into the thing he doesn't bother to correct and say, oh, no, no, I didn't.
Brianna Butterworth:He just.
Brianna Butterworth:You get this sense that he really enjoys being part of this, you know, this rich society, you know, so much.
Nathan Shore:That's what I like.
Nathan Shore:He doesn't really telling the lies.
Nathan Shore:He's letting the other people lie for him.
Nathan Shore:And he's just kind of like not denying it.
Nathan Shore:So it's really calculated way of forwarding his status through this.
Dave Merrill:That's why I think all that ambition is Channel.
Dave Merrill:I kind of think he's just like a lazy goof around, except for the fact that he wants to be.
Dave Merrill:He wants to have a social status that comes with ease and luxury and not really having to work super hard.
Dave Merrill:So I think he's ambitious in that way.
Dave Merrill:But I've heard and haven't read the book.
Dave Merrill:Dave, maybe you can tell us.
Dave Merrill:I know you've read the book, but that this is a huge character shift, that the character is very different in the film from how he is in the book.
Dave Merrill:Do you remember it that way?
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Is there built in trunk?
Nathan Shore:Like that's what my question was as well, because it's not really mentioned.
Nathan Shore:Like, why is he the way he is?
Nathan Shore:Why is he gifted at impersonating?
Nathan Shore:What is his trauma that makes him the way he is?
Nathan Shore:Is that painted out, fleshed out in the book more?
Brianna Butterworth:Not really.
Brianna Butterworth:He's actually, in the book he's much more.
Brianna Butterworth:He's much.
Brianna Butterworth:He is equally amount as a cipher.
Brianna Butterworth:But in the character in the book, you know, he's.
Brianna Butterworth:I want to say, I'm trying to remember if it's that he's a.
Brianna Butterworth:That he works in a bank or he's like some sort of a clerk, but he also has a bunch of these really minor schemes, you know, fraud and blackmail, anonymous fraud and blackmail, to which he, you know, which he, you know, which he augments his income, let's say, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:So that's a little bit of a.
Brianna Butterworth:That's a little bit of a different thing than, you know, than what you have in the film.
Dave Merrill:But I read that he was maybe more sociopathic, kind of just cold.
Dave Merrill:Get what you need.
Nathan Shore:Definitely, definitely stone cold sociopath from the get go.
Nathan Shore:I feel like from.
Nathan Shore:Hasn't really refined it into a life of crime yet.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:Which is also something that you feel the impression, you know, even though it's invisible.
Brianna Butterworth:But there's the impression of Patricia Highsmith, who's the author.
Brianna Butterworth:And we could actually do a whole podcast just on her, you know, and on, you know, what she brought to the table.
Brianna Butterworth:Because, I mean, I will just say this.
Brianna Butterworth:Lord almighty, the woman was very talented.
Brianna Butterworth:But as they used to say on the Ricky Lake show, she had issues.
Brianna Butterworth:Serious, you know, serious issues.
Brianna Butterworth:And then.
Brianna Butterworth:But when you see characters like Ripley, you see her sort of, you know, playing them out, you know, via this, you know, fictional avatar, you know, which is kind of what's going on because she herself also had.
Brianna Butterworth:She had a traumatic childhood.
Brianna Butterworth:There's sort of a, you know, broken psychology there.
Brianna Butterworth:She had, you Know, she was attracted to both, you know, men and women before deciding that she really did, you know, she really belonged with, you know, with other women.
Brianna Butterworth:But she had problems, you know, maintaining, you know, a stable relationship with, you know, with a single partner at any given time.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:So.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, and there's such a.
Dave Merrill:Especially in that the first.
Dave Merrill:I would even say the first two thirds, because the final act of this movie really goes so quick.
Dave Merrill:There's so much sympathy for Ripley.
Dave Merrill:I mean, it's not like American Psycho or any of these, like, sort of Stone Cold, you know, American ambition stories.
Dave Merrill:This is really a much more empathetic portrait.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, sure, yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:As a friend of mine in la, when actually I think it was my.
Brianna Butterworth:One of my cousins saw the film before I did, and I said, well, you know, what did you think?
Brianna Butterworth:She goes, it's difficult to say because you're kind of rooting for the villain.
Brianna Butterworth:And I was like, what do you mean?
Brianna Butterworth:And she goes, well, you'll just have to see it.
Brianna Butterworth:And then you see it.
Brianna Butterworth:And then there are points where, you know, well, yeah, you kind of.
Brianna Butterworth:You don't want him to get caught, even though, you know, he's committed these horrible murders, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, you're kind of.
Brianna Butterworth:You're kind of like going, oh, God, you know, is he gonna.
Brianna Butterworth:Is he gonna have to pay for his sins?
Brianna Butterworth:But then, you know, every time, you know, even to the end, you know, with the confrontation with, you know, you know, Philip Baker Hall's character, the detective McCarran, who was once a book detective, if you'll recall, in Seinfeld.
Brianna Butterworth:Anyway.
Nathan Shore:Well, you bring up a point which I think is so special about this movie, is that because, you know, Tom is really the protagonist of this movie, even though he's a villain in this entire movie is told through his eyes.
Nathan Shore:It makes us complicit in everything.
Nathan Shore:So it's very uncomfortable.
Nathan Shore:And I think this is maybe what also doesn't resonate maybe with me at first.
Nathan Shore:And maybe would some.
Nathan Shore:A lot of people at the time.
Nathan Shore:Not.
Nathan Shore:Maybe not a lot of people, but which kind of.
Nathan Shore:Which made this kind of like, where does this movie fit with if.
Nathan Shore:Do I like this?
Nathan Shore:Do I not?
Nathan Shore:This is because I am complicit with this guy's actions.
Nathan Shore:I don't like him, but he is our hero of the movie, and he's a despicable person.
Nathan Shore:But I am thrust forward with every single thing he's doing.
Nathan Shore:I'm trapped with him.
Nathan Shore:And that's kind of unusual for a film.
Nathan Shore:And also, you know, obviously this is a series of books as well.
Nathan Shore:How often is it where the villain gets his own series in his own through line, over and over.
Nathan Shore:Usually it's the hero that is.
Nathan Shore:You know, it's the Sherlock Holmes, it's the James Bond that has the series of books.
Nathan Shore:And this time we have a villain that is getting this constant, like, story after serialized story.
Nathan Shore:And that's unusual and kind of neat.
Brianna Butterworth:It is very neat.
Brianna Butterworth:The only other franchise I can think of readily is, you know, is the Hannibal Lecter character, you know, Thomas Harris, of course.
Brianna Butterworth:But then I would also feel, I feel like mentioning another.
Brianna Butterworth:A great novel that has not been ruined by being turned into either a mediocre film or mediocre series yet.
Brianna Butterworth: ork Times bestseller from the: Brianna Butterworth:And then also, and, you know, I met her when the novel first came out.
Brianna Butterworth:She came to Memphis on a book tour.
Brianna Butterworth:A friend of mine worked at the bookshop that was doing the arrange for the signing.
Brianna Butterworth:So I actually got to speak to her for a few minutes.
Brianna Butterworth:And the novel is really wonderful.
Brianna Butterworth:And I had a select group of friends that we were involved in medieval studies in college together.
Brianna Butterworth:And it kind of mirrored the characters and there's a murder involved and the characters, you know, it's similar.
Brianna Butterworth:It's similar in context.
Brianna Butterworth:I don't want to give too much away.
Brianna Butterworth:It is very much a why done it.
Brianna Butterworth:You learn in the very first few pages, you know, who's murdered.
Brianna Butterworth:But you have to figure out, you know, through the novel, you figure out, you know, why it's done.
Brianna Butterworth:Donna Tartt, you know, she.
Brianna Butterworth:She recently, she won.
Brianna Butterworth:There was a film made over New York Times bestseller.
Brianna Butterworth:I just lost it.
Brianna Butterworth:I just lost the name of it.
Brianna Butterworth:The Goldfinch.
Brianna Butterworth:Thank you.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, it was the Goldfinch, which was made into.
Brianna Butterworth:Which made into a pretty good film.
Brianna Butterworth:And I would tell you that here's another thing.
Brianna Butterworth:I was so motivated after reading this novel several times, I.
Brianna Butterworth:And I'm only going to confess this on this podcast.
Brianna Butterworth:I wrote a stage play based on the novel.
Brianna Butterworth:I don't.
Brianna Butterworth:Didn't have the rights to it.
Dave Merrill:Back to the frame rate exclusive.
Brianna Butterworth:Back to the frame rate exclusive.
Brianna Butterworth:And then at a Sundance Film Festival back in.
Brianna Butterworth: In the early mid: Brianna Butterworth:And she laughed and said, oh, I'm too old.
Brianna Butterworth:And then this person said, oh, but you were wonderful in Talented Mr.
Brianna Butterworth:Ripley.
Brianna Butterworth:And that character could be.
Brianna Butterworth:Is so close to the one that you could play in Secret History, which I didn't really see that, but, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:And Gwyneth kind of just, you know, laughed it off and said, no, I'll leave that to another filmmaker.
Brianna Butterworth:And then years later, when Nathan and I were in la, Sofia Coppola and I met her at an advanced screening of Virgin Suicides, I mentioned the Secret History to her, and she said, I tried to buy the film rights before I shot this, but.
Brianna Butterworth:And I said, but Gwyneth Paltrow has them.
Brianna Butterworth:And she looked at me, how did you know that?
Brianna Butterworth:And then, you know.
Dave Merrill:That's crazy.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:A little crazy, huh?
Brianna Butterworth:Kind of crazy.
Nathan Shore:I want to get back to a few things on the Platiars.
Nathan Shore:This is kind of important because I think this shows a little bit about Tom's.
Nathan Shore:The way his character is developing.
Nathan Shore:On the way to the airport, he has an interaction with a chauffeur, says that the Greenleaf name opens a lot of doors.
Nathan Shore:And I'm sure this is planting a seed with Tom, but when he gets to the airport, this is what's.
Nathan Shore:I think, the first time he starts to lie about something in a big way.
Nathan Shore:He's already begun experimenting with trying out, impersonating someone else.
Nathan Shore:And he meets Meredith, the Cate Blanchett character, and he introduces himself as Dickie.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:And why do you think he does this here?
Nathan Shore:Because he doesn't have to.
Nathan Shore:Right, right.
Nathan Shore:As far as I know, this is just him trying it out.
Nathan Shore:It's just for fun.
Nathan Shore:I was always kind of thrown off why this is in this.
Nathan Shore:He kind of like this.
Nathan Shore:This backfires later on in the movie.
Nathan Shore:Why?
Nathan Shore:The reason for this, which is a good.
Nathan Shore:I mean, it's great that he does this for the story, but this is.
Nathan Shore:Why does he do this?
Brianna Butterworth:Because he's a sociopath.
Dave Merrill:Because he wants to be someone else.
Dave Merrill:Yeah.
Dave Merrill:I think it's that simple.
Dave Merrill:I think he just wants to be someone else.
Dave Merrill:And he knows with the tickets he has, you know, he would be seen as, like, the pity case or the worker.
Dave Merrill:And I don't think he wanted that.
Brianna Butterworth:I did think it was a little bit of an in joke that Mengele is playing with.
Brianna Butterworth:Like, the chauffeur was saying, the Greenleaf name opens a lot of doors.
Brianna Butterworth:I was like, yeah, they pay your salary to open doors.
Brianna Butterworth:But, okay, sure.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, that's funny.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Dave Merrill:I thought, yeah.
Nathan Shore:Beach scene is after this.
Dave Merrill:Hell, yeah, it is.
Nathan Shore:I love this scene.
Nathan Shore:So Matt Damon is so awkward in that bathing suit.
Nathan Shore:It's also he, you know, he's posturing himself because he looks.
Nathan Shore:He's so slim.
Nathan Shore:He's got no body hair.
Nathan Shore:He looks like almost like a young teenage boy, but he's also jacked.
Nathan Shore:And I.
Nathan Shore:I read that he lost a lot of weight for this.
Nathan Shore:But he meets Dickie Greenleaf and who is sun drenched.
Dave Merrill:He is Jude Laws.
Dave Merrill:Like a golden God on this beach chair.
Dave Merrill:He just pops off the screen.
Dave Merrill:It's crazy.
Nathan Shore:He's got like vintage round sunglasses and everything about him is screaming laid back luxury.
Nathan Shore:Just the perfect visual of privilege and allure and.
Nathan Shore:And I just love his throwaway line, like, about Tom's whiteness and lack of a tan.
Nathan Shore:Of course, his girlfriend, Marge Gwyneth Paltrow might be the pastiest actress working in.
Dave Merrill:Hollywood, but there's just an E ease.
Dave Merrill:Like, he just has this ease that Ripley can't mimic.
Dave Merrill:And I think that's such a core tenant of the movie.
Dave Merrill:Like, what happens here is what happens to the whole movie, which is this in crowd knows.
Dave Merrill:Like this in crowd can smell an imposter.
Dave Merrill:These are blue bloods.
Dave Merrill:They know this guy never had a silver spoon in his mouth.
Dave Merrill:And no matter how much, you know, he makes and scrapes his way through, he's always going to be new money.
Dave Merrill:He's always going to be a new name.
Dave Merrill:It's.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, he's never going to get what he wants with these people.
Dave Merrill:And you see it right here.
Brianna Butterworth:Right?
Dave Merrill:Oh, did we go to Princeton?
Dave Merrill:Did you know me?
Dave Merrill:I didn't know you.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, did you know me?
Brianna Butterworth:It's like you, you weren't important enough to make an impression on me, you know.
Dave Merrill:Right.
Brianna Butterworth:And then he also has to put him in his place about.
Brianna Butterworth:He was like, you're so, you know, you're so white, you know.
Dave Merrill:Right.
Brianna Butterworth:And then, of course.
Brianna Butterworth:But then Tom has to sort of be this, you know, ingratiating, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, how do I play this off with the sense of humor?
Brianna Butterworth:It's just primer.
Brianna Butterworth:And then, you know, it's like, what?
Brianna Butterworth:You know?
Brianna Butterworth:Cause he's heard him.
Brianna Butterworth:But that whole what I didn't hear you, you know, thing, like, I can't even hear you from up here, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:Thing.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, you know, because I'm so superior to you.
Brianna Butterworth:What did you say?
Brianna Butterworth:You know, and then, of course, he has to play the chord gesture for a moment and then just, you know, you know, primer.
Brianna Butterworth:It's an undercoat.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, okay.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, so he's working class enough to know what primer is.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:But you know, anyway.
Dave Merrill:And working class enough to have to be funny to get out of the potshots.
Brianna Butterworth:Right, right.
Brianna Butterworth:And then.
Brianna Butterworth:But then Dickie even makes fun of Marge and says, you know, Marge likes it because she's so white too.
Brianna Butterworth:But then what you don't know in the film, but it comes across in the novel is that Marge herself, even though there's this.
Brianna Butterworth:There's a throwaway line that she has later about I hated all the Park Avenue crowd.
Brianna Butterworth:But in the novel she's from Ohio, she's not from Park Avenue, you know, so she's not, you know, a Waspy Dicky, Dickie status type Manhattanite either.
Brianna Butterworth:So, you know, or Oyster Bay.
Nathan Shore:I think after this there's a scene.
Nathan Shore:Now here's a funny thing.
Nathan Shore:Dickie picks up the girl Silvana on his Vespa.
Nathan Shore:Funny thing is up until this viewing, because the way this is shot, I didn't realize that this was Silvana because it's shot on a long lens.
Nathan Shore:And I never made the connection that this is the same girl or I never really paid that close attention to it.
Nathan Shore:So I never really made the connection, the importance of Silvana early on in this movie.
Nathan Shore:Because if I didn't know that this was Silvana in this scene here, the interactions afterwards did never really connected well for me because there's aren't that many between dicking Silvana after this.
Nathan Shore:And it wasn't until this time I realized it was the same girl.
Nathan Shore:So that's my own shortcoming.
Nathan Shore:But this is all through Tom's POV that this is why.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, I think Silvan is a great example of the casual brutality of the upper class.
Dave Merrill:You know, this movie says a lot about manipulation and motivation and climbing the social ladder.
Dave Merrill:But the real violent, the violence for the most of the movie is done by Tom Ripley, our blue collar hero, you know, anti hero.
Dave Merrill:But Silvana is really the way where you see the upper crust having a real tragic effect.
Dave Merrill:And of course, his hands are technically clean for the kill.
Nathan Shore:Well, I'm saying I wish there was more connective tissue with Dickie and Silvana.
Nathan Shore:I get what's going on here.
Nathan Shore:I wish, you know, I don't need everything spelled out for me.
Nathan Shore:But I think they could have made a little more clear of this affair.
Nathan Shore:I think there are some couple smoldering glances when he goes to like her fruit stand or something like that.
Nathan Shore:I was not making.
Nathan Shore:Again, I'm dense sometimes.
Nathan Shore:Sometimes I need things spelled out.
Nathan Shore:It was not obvious to me, who is this?
Nathan Shore:Who is this girl?
Nathan Shore:What's going on here?
Nathan Shore:And then I think it's supposed to be naturally ambiguous later on when Silvana ends up dead.
Nathan Shore:Was it suicide?
Nathan Shore:Is there a possibility she was murdered?
Nathan Shore:I think it's pretty.
Nathan Shore:I think she did commit suicide, but it's.
Nathan Shore:I think it's a part of this movie that could have been written a little bit better.
Nathan Shore:You know, what her role in.
Nathan Shore:Is in this.
Brianna Butterworth:So it's just.
Brianna Butterworth:It's very subtle.
Brianna Butterworth:But there is a shot, okay, when Dickie.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, when Dickie and Tom and Marge are out on the boat.
Brianna Butterworth:And then they.
Brianna Butterworth:And they're coming back in.
Brianna Butterworth:And this is after the whole.
Brianna Butterworth:There's a scene that Tom witnesses where, you know, Silvana, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, they're leaving Marge's.
Brianna Butterworth:And then he sees her family, you know, groceria, you know, the fruit and food stand.
Brianna Butterworth:And she says, I need to talk to you.
Brianna Butterworth:And he's doing that number.
Brianna Butterworth:And so you're like, okay.
Brianna Butterworth:He's playing this kind of thing with her Now.
Brianna Butterworth:Then the following scene is.
Brianna Butterworth:They're on the boat.
Brianna Butterworth:And she's on the boat, and Tom.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:And then.
Brianna Butterworth:But when they come back into port, you see her.
Brianna Butterworth:You can see her.
Brianna Butterworth:Just the shot is that she is, like, within the frame.
Nathan Shore:I remember the meeting shot of her looking out rocks.
Nathan Shore:I remember the rock.
Brianna Butterworth:It was a reverse where you're looking at Dickie and she's just over his shoulder, but in the background, like, she sees all three of them on that boat.
Brianna Butterworth:And then after that, she's found dead floating in the water.
Nathan Shore:But I didn't see the anguish in her is maybe what is maybe because I didn't see them fighting.
Nathan Shore:I didn't see them having this.
Nathan Shore:Something that would have caused her to.
Nathan Shore:I mean, obviously, you know, she is engaged.
Nathan Shore:This.
Nathan Shore:She's probably supposed to be a virgin, because this is an Italian.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, it's an Italian side.
Nathan Shore:So I get that.
Nathan Shore:And this would be a travesty if she was pregnant and supposed to get married.
Nathan Shore:I get all that.
Nathan Shore:I understand the culture, but I never saw that.
Nathan Shore:The.
Nathan Shore:The argument.
Nathan Shore:Not that I need to have it spelled out so obviously, but I kind of wish there was.
Nathan Shore:We just got a little bit of the flavor of the.
Nathan Shore:That tension of what could have been mounting off in the side there.
Nathan Shore:And I didn't see, like, the last shot we have of her that close up where she's kind of like on the rocks, kind of looking kind of distant.
Nathan Shore:That's the last close up we have of her.
Nathan Shore:And I didn't see.
Nathan Shore:This is a woman on the verge of ending it.
Nathan Shore:I didn't see that.
Brianna Butterworth:Right.
Nathan Shore:That's all I'm saying.
Brianna Butterworth:You see.
Brianna Butterworth:You see a slight.
Brianna Butterworth:There's like a.
Brianna Butterworth:There's like a slight, like, you know, kind of dismissive, but not really abjectly, you know, suicidal.
Brianna Butterworth:I thought the character.
Brianna Butterworth:To me, it harkened back a lot to F.
Brianna Butterworth:Scott Fitzgerald's the Great Gatsby.
Brianna Butterworth:The Myrtle Wilson character, you know, the character that is accidentally killed by Daisy and then.
Brianna Butterworth:But then she moves it, you know, then the rest of the plot kind of hinges on the fact that she accidentally died, you know, and then that sort of triggers everything else.
Dave Merrill:I.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, and I hear what you're saying, Nathan.
Dave Merrill:I don't disagree.
Dave Merrill:But I kind of like that she is just a footnote in their story and that she's really not given any.
Dave Merrill:Like all these other characters.
Dave Merrill:It's about their motivations, and it's really not about hers because it's.
Dave Merrill:It is just that she's a castaway.
Dave Merrill:She doesn't matter in their story.
Dave Merrill:All she does is color.
Dave Merrill:Color Dickie.
Dave Merrill:And, you know.
Dave Merrill:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:It becomes an opportunity for Tom to step up and say, well, I can now help you cover this up.
Nathan Shore:Because when he senses their friendship is crumbling now it's a plot beat for him to.
Nathan Shore:Well, she was pregnant and I can now be your best friend again by making sure that Marge doesn't know about this and blah, blah, blah.
Nathan Shore:So this is.
Nathan Shore:It becomes really just, as you say, a footnote, but like a.
Nathan Shore:Just a plot point so that he can kind of help re.
Nathan Shore:Bring their friendship back again.
Nathan Shore:I think is kind of what the point of it is, because it really doesn't go anywhere otherwise.
Nathan Shore:I mean, Dickie gets distraught for, you know, four minutes about the whole thing.
Nathan Shore:Gets a little mopey around the house.
Dave Merrill:I.
Dave Merrill:Dickie is hot and cold.
Dave Merrill:Like, when you're saying.
Dave Merrill:When you're talking about their friendship sort of on the rocks, that, to me, is the moment where I'm like, whoa, did I just miss something in this movie?
Dave Merrill:It's so sudden.
Nathan Shore:I know.
Nathan Shore:But, you know, before we talk about them, their friendship getting in the rocks, how about when they are really at their peak, when they go to that jazz club?
Nathan Shore:Because that's one of the most joyous moments in this movie.
Nathan Shore:And they're.
Nathan Shore:What is the.
Nathan Shore:What is the song?
Nathan Shore:That is.
Brianna Butterworth:It's.
Brianna Butterworth:It's big number to VO La Faramericano, which is the translation is.
Brianna Butterworth:And this is in my horrible Italian.
Brianna Butterworth:You want to be.
Brianna Butterworth:You want to be an American.
Brianna Butterworth:So this is a song that would have come out.
Brianna Butterworth:I think I actually did the mental math.
Brianna Butterworth:This song would have come out two years before the events in the film.
Brianna Butterworth:So it's still a relatively new and very popular song.
Brianna Butterworth:But the subtext of the song is very.
Brianna Butterworth:It's also.
Brianna Butterworth:It's another hint from the director.
Brianna Butterworth:It's very telling.
Brianna Butterworth:It is.
Brianna Butterworth:It's sort of in a humorous way, calling out the influence of Americans on Italian society post World War II.
Brianna Butterworth:And it's saying things like, you.
Brianna Butterworth:You wear jeans with the brand on them and you dress like a.
Brianna Butterworth:And they're using the phrase guapo, which is like a Spanish term for like a pompous show off person.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, like you.
Brianna Butterworth:You're showing off like you're an American.
Brianna Butterworth:You drink.
Brianna Butterworth:You like baseball, or you want to play baseball.
Brianna Butterworth:You drink whiskey and soda.
Brianna Butterworth:But it only gives you a.
Brianna Butterworth:It only gives you a headache.
Brianna Butterworth:Or a hangover.
Brianna Butterworth:Yep.
Brianna Butterworth:Which is kind of genius because then in the next scene, you see Tom.
Nathan Shore:Damon's got the hangover.
Brianna Butterworth:He's got the hangover.
Brianna Butterworth:And he's in Dickie's apartment.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:So, but it is.
Brianna Butterworth:It's a great scene.
Brianna Butterworth:And then, of course, the other subtle thing is that Dickie.
Brianna Butterworth:They're there without Marge, you know, and Fausto, who is the Italian character, who is actually Silvana's fiance, is there, but there's another girl that comes up and kisses Dickie full on the lips.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:And so it's.
Nathan Shore:Oh, this is Tom's reaction to that too.
Brianna Butterworth:Right.
Brianna Butterworth:Which is like, oh, Dickie's getting around, you know.
Dave Merrill:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:So, yeah.
Nathan Shore:We're only like a half hour into this movie.
Dave Merrill:When did I know?
Dave Merrill:And, like, the big stuff really happens like an hour in.
Dave Merrill:But when did you all clock for the first time that it was potentially a romantic attraction?
Dave Merrill:Because this is where I've read the film in the book, deviate a little bit where it's not purely sociopathic, but there's, you know, is he using sex as a means to an end to get what he wants, or is this some deep attraction where he can't tell if he wants to be with this person or sort of sublimate into their.
Nathan Shore:Character, I think, around here.
Nathan Shore:Because when he's.
Nathan Shore:The way he goes up on that stage and he's looking at Dickie because he's trying to sing, but he's basically transfixed on Dickie during that song, trying to follow his lead, he's Both, like, half scared out of his wits and half intoxicated by the experience.
Nathan Shore:And we're seeing him, I think, real time, falling in love with Dickie in that moment.
Dave Merrill:And he's so magnetic.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:And it's singing along with them.
Brianna Butterworth:He's singing along with them at one moment.
Brianna Butterworth:But then My Funny Valentine.
Brianna Butterworth:He's not singing that about.
Brianna Butterworth:He's singing that about.
Brianna Butterworth:He's singing that to Dickie.
Brianna Butterworth:He wants Dickie to be his Funny Valentine, so.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, you know.
Nathan Shore:Exactly.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:And then I think right after this is shortly is the bathtub scene.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:Which is.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Now, I'm a straight male, but I'm telling you, this is one of the most sexy scenes I've seen a long time.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:And, yeah, they're playing chess, which is.
Dave Merrill:Famously a sexy game.
Nathan Shore:What a metaphor already, you know, clear and clearly Tom is attracted to Dickie and even mentions getting in the tub with him.
Nathan Shore:Dickie doesn't look at him.
Nathan Shore:You think of him that way, he says, but he loves strutting around.
Nathan Shore:He loves being the center of attention.
Nathan Shore:And, you know, even when he gets out of the tub, he's looking over shoulder.
Nathan Shore:He just.
Nathan Shore:He wants eyes on him all the time.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Such a ham.
Nathan Shore:He's testing Tom, you know, and, of course, he got the music and the cinematography, the soft lighting in this.
Nathan Shore:This is an incredible scene.
Dave Merrill:Now, I've read an interpretation that the reason for the sudden iciness in Dickie is that when Freddy comes around, who I want to start talking about, but when Freddie comes around suddenly that, like, fragile potential romance, he really.
Dave Merrill:He snaps back into his, you know, sort of blue bloodies.
Dave Merrill:Oh, no, we don't do that here.
Dave Merrill:And so he's putting up some defenses around the Philip Seymour Hoffman character, which maybe.
Dave Merrill:But also, I just wouldn't be surprised if, you know, Dickie Greenleaf just wanted to use people for attention and clout and status.
Nathan Shore:I think that's a great.
Nathan Shore:Probably very likely take.
Nathan Shore:Well, Freddie Miles comes in like a tornado.
Nathan Shore:He's got.
Nathan Shore:Was a red Alpha Romeo fighter.
Nathan Shore:I mean, I.
Nathan Shore:I'm trying.
Brianna Butterworth:I hate him just because of that car.
Brianna Butterworth:I hate him.
Dave Merrill:Oh, it's a gorgeous car.
Brianna Butterworth:Gorgeous car, that car.
Nathan Shore:And don't you just wish you could every woman, just once, you know?
Nathan Shore:What a douche.
Nathan Shore:I mean, like.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:Truly.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:But, hey, what a year for Philip Seymour Hoffman.
Nathan Shore:I mean, we're gonna be.
Nathan Shore:We're reviewing a magnolia in a couple weeks.
Nathan Shore:So.
Nathan Shore:I mean, this was the year of the Hoff.
Brianna Butterworth:Great actor.
Brianna Butterworth:I Mean like a douchey character.
Brianna Butterworth:But it takes a genius level actor to be able play, you know, that douchebaggery.
Brianna Butterworth:That level of douchebaggery.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Dave Merrill:You know, yeah.
Dave Merrill:He played a lot of douches in his career to come away as beloved as he did playing just a lot of huge D bags.
Brianna Butterworth:Scent of a Woman.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, the character incentive.
Brianna Butterworth:A woman who winds up.
Nathan Shore:I love him.
Nathan Shore:In Happiness.
Nathan Shore:It's one of my favorite roles.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, my God.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:That next level.
Brianna Butterworth:Really scary.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Anyways, but he adds another whole level of energy to this movie.
Nathan Shore:And I think, B, you said it.
Nathan Shore:Because, you know, Dickie, you know, he's got a new boy toy, you know, in town, and it changes the chemistry of everyone's friendship here.
Brianna Butterworth:So there's a scene.
Brianna Butterworth:There's a scene when they're in a record store in Rome, you know, because remember, like, the trip to Rome and, you know, and you know, Ripley, Tom, you know, wants to go.
Brianna Butterworth:He thinks, we're gonna go to the tailor shop and we're gonna go sightseeing and we're go out to eat and I'm gonna hang her out with Dickie.
Brianna Butterworth:But then, no, they get there and then, nope, Freddie shows up.
Brianna Butterworth:They go to the record shop and he's.
Nathan Shore:Wow.
Brianna Butterworth:We're gonna go to this jazz club and Freddy's arranging with a skiing crowd.
Brianna Butterworth:And, you know, you can come if you want, which means you don't really belong.
Brianna Butterworth:You don't really belong.
Brianna Butterworth:And we're probably gonna score some girls on the side and we don't want you around.
Brianna Butterworth:But then there's a scene where, like, the camera does a close up of Philip Seymour Hoffman as Freddie.
Brianna Butterworth:And he's got this look, this really dark look.
Brianna Butterworth:And you can.
Brianna Butterworth:He's staring at Ripley and, you know, he's.
Brianna Butterworth:I don't like you.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, you're a fake.
Brianna Butterworth:You're a phony.
Brianna Butterworth:And I don't.
Dave Merrill:He's the only one who clocks Ripley right away.
Dave Merrill:Because throughout all of this and what we haven't really talked about is the friendship with Gwyneth Paltrow, the friendship with Marge, which is just sort of bubbling under the surface, and maybe she's getting the attention she needs from him when Dickie's putting her in the shadows.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:And then actually, I would also argue that Freddy is on the verge of figuring out that Tom is masquerading as Dickie just before he gets hit in the head with that bust of Herodotus, you know, just before his tree, literally.
Brianna Butterworth:Hits him in the head.
Dave Merrill:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:Boom.
Brianna Butterworth:You know?
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:So just to wrap up a little bit about Freddie in there in their gathering, they go out on that boat, the four of them, and Paltrow and Dicky, Tom and Freddy.
Nathan Shore:Very memorable scene as well.
Nathan Shore:They're.
Nathan Shore:Dicky and Freddy are all frolicking in the water.
Nathan Shore:And this is where Tom realizes that he's been disinvited from their ski trip.
Brianna Butterworth:Right.
Nathan Shore:Also, I think prior to this is.
Nathan Shore:What is this prior to when Tom learns that the funding has been cut off?
Nathan Shore:I'm trying to remember.
Dave Merrill:I don't know.
Nathan Shore:Anyways.
Nathan Shore:But he realizes that he's been put on the back burner.
Nathan Shore:And Marge has kind of enlightened Tom a little bit that, you know, there's a great.
Nathan Shore:There's a great bit of dialogue where, you know, with Dickie, when he.
Nathan Shore:The sun shines on you or something like that, and.
Nathan Shore:But it's so fleeting, and then, you know, it feels wonderful when it's there, but then, you know, it's just normal for him to go off into the next thing.
Nathan Shore:And it happens, you know, with women as well.
Nathan Shore:So it's.
Nathan Shore:It's a really kind of heartbreaking scene.
Nathan Shore:And you kind of see where she's really a tragic figure in this as well.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, right.
Nathan Shore:Because she's a victim in this.
Nathan Shore:This is also followed by, you know, where Dickie says he's got to do Marge maintenance, which is such a ridiculous line.
Nathan Shore:And one of the best lines of all time is when Tom is caught spying on them underneath.
Nathan Shore:And Freddie, how's the peep in Tom?
Brianna Butterworth:How's the peeping Tom, Tommy?
Brianna Butterworth:How's the peeping, Tommy?
Brianna Butterworth:How's it peeping?
Dave Merrill:What unnerving delivery, by the way.
Nathan Shore:This is permanently going in our bank of audio files.
Brianna Butterworth:As it should.
Brianna Butterworth:As it should.
Dave Merrill:What I love just the cinematography in this movie.
Dave Merrill:Just the way the camera is moving for all this action that's happening and simmering beneath the surface.
Dave Merrill:And every time, you know, this movie loves a mirror moment.
Dave Merrill:This movie loves things in the shadows.
Dave Merrill:And every time, I don't feel hit over the head with it.
Dave Merrill:Even though it's very blunt, and this movie is very blunt in all its metaphors, but, you know, we get a little bit here.
Dave Merrill:And definitely at the end, some of those final shots in the piano cover and stuff of his face are just really.
Dave Merrill:Just really stunning.
Dave Merrill:Really great visual storytelling in this movie.
Nathan Shore:The boat, they go on the dinghy.
Nathan Shore:I mean, we already know that the jig is up as far as with Tom, Dickie's father's no longer going to be funding this anymore.
Nathan Shore:He's given up on trying to get his son home.
Nathan Shore:And this is when Dickie realizes, you know what?
Nathan Shore:You can't pay your own way.
Nathan Shore:We're going to end this friendship.
Nathan Shore:I'm bored with you.
Nathan Shore:And for whatever reason, I don't understand why they go out so far on a little rowboat.
Nathan Shore:Seems like a silly idea, but they decide that they're going to hash it out in the middle of the ocean, the middle of the Mediterranean, and really erupts in one of the most violent, shocking scenes I've seen in a while.
Brianna Butterworth:So Dickie.
Brianna Butterworth:I think that Dickey introduced the scene in saying that he wanted to go out and look at the town so that he could find a new apartment because he wants to move away from Mangiabello.
Brianna Butterworth:So that was ostensibly.
Brianna Butterworth:That was the purpose.
Nathan Shore:Did he also say he wanted to leave Marge also prior to this as well?
Nathan Shore:Or it was.
Brianna Butterworth:He said.
Brianna Butterworth:Well, what he says is.
Brianna Butterworth:He goes, I'm so sick of mangia bello.
Brianna Butterworth:And now with everything.
Brianna Butterworth:And he's implying, you know, the whole thing with Silvanus death.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, he just, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:Yes.
Brianna Butterworth:The.
Nathan Shore:He just wants to get out.
Dave Merrill:He wants to get away.
Brianna Butterworth:He wants to start fresh, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, again, it's like the whole thing is the.
Brianna Butterworth:The line, you know, in.
Brianna Butterworth:In Great Gatsby about how, you know, the rich, you know, you know, they.
Brianna Butterworth:They're just able to destroy people, and then they just.
Brianna Butterworth:They break them like toys, and then they just move on.
Brianna Butterworth:So that's what Dickies, you know, that's.
Brianna Butterworth:That's Dicky's mo.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, but I think that it was.
Brianna Butterworth:I'm trying to remember that.
Brianna Butterworth:But it's at this point, too, that Ripley's becoming more and more frustrated that he's not.
Brianna Butterworth:That he feels like there's this very real distance becoming between him and Dickie because Dickie has announced this will be our last trip together.
Brianna Butterworth:And then we'll say goodbye in style.
Brianna Butterworth:There's this idea that, yeah, I'm waving goodbye to you.
Brianna Butterworth:You're, you know, you're going away.
Brianna Butterworth:Or I'm going to.
Brianna Butterworth:I'm going to go away.
Brianna Butterworth:And then that's when they have that whole.
Brianna Butterworth:The confrontation about their.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, about their.
Brianna Butterworth:About Tom's feelings for him.
Brianna Butterworth:And then, you know, and then it all comes crashing down with the.
Brianna Butterworth:Or, you know.
Nathan Shore:Yep.
Brianna Butterworth:So.
Nathan Shore:And after he.
Nathan Shore:He kills him.
Nathan Shore:He curls, he spoons him.
Nathan Shore:He doesn't want the fantasy to go away either, so.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, man, it's.
Brianna Butterworth:It's so.
Nathan Shore:So disturbing.
Brianna Butterworth:It's disturbing.
Brianna Butterworth:It's like this.
Brianna Butterworth:It's like this.
Brianna Butterworth:It's like you're.
Brianna Butterworth:This.
Brianna Butterworth:It's like a staging of a weird birth, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:It's like they're sharing the womb, this bloody womb of the little boat, you know, they're cradled together, you know, till eventually, I guess, he figures out that, you know, he's just, you know, Dickie's.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, I've got to dispose of Dickie's body, you know.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:And then there's the mistaken identity again, as Bea pointed out, you know, at the hotel where the concierge comes in.
Brianna Butterworth:And he goes, monsieur Greenleaf.
Brianna Butterworth:Right.
Brianna Butterworth:And then at first he starts, no, I'm in these.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, I am.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:Give me the key to Dickie's room.
Brianna Butterworth:Because, yeah, I'm Dickie, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:So we probably need to move things along here a little bit because this is Only the first 60 minutes of the movie, and there's so much that's packed into this.
Nathan Shore:There's so many memorable scenes.
Nathan Shore:But he, you know, he goes through so much effort to hide Dickie's ring.
Nathan Shore:Why do you.
Nathan Shore:First of all, I want to ask you guys this question.
Nathan Shore:Why do you think he keeps the ring?
Nathan Shore:The rings?
Dave Merrill:Because he wants to be Dickie.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Is that.
Nathan Shore:Is it.
Nathan Shore:Was.
Dave Merrill:He doesn't want to be someone like Dickie, he wants to be Dickie.
Brianna Butterworth:Yep.
Nathan Shore:Because this is his undoing, or could be his undoing.
Nathan Shore:And it wasn't anything about.
Dave Merrill:They take trophies.
Nathan Shore:Is it a trophy?
Nathan Shore:Is it love?
Nathan Shore:Or is it the only way he could really finish the ruse of being Dickie?
Dave Merrill:I don't think that Tom Ripley knows the difference between romantic love and wanting to be someone and that ideation.
Dave Merrill:So I think it was love for Tom Ripley because he's a freak of nature and he took the ring.
Dave Merrill:What do you think, Dave?
Brianna Butterworth:I completely agree.
Brianna Butterworth:I think it is.
Brianna Butterworth:I think it's, you know, you're asking, you know, is it.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, is.
Brianna Butterworth:It's not.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, I would say this.
Brianna Butterworth:It's not exactly like a serial killer's trophy because he doesn't take anything.
Brianna Butterworth:I mean, he didn't take anything from Freddy.
Nathan Shore:Could have taken his face.
Nathan Shore:It was hanging off.
Dave Merrill:Oh, my God.
Dave Merrill:Could I have, like, a love life bleeding moment?
Brianna Butterworth:Right, right, right.
Brianna Butterworth:No, but I think it's.
Brianna Butterworth:I think it's a thing of, you know, I think an adolescent, you know, like in your.
Brianna Butterworth:In junior high or high school and you've got a.
Brianna Butterworth:You've got a significant other.
Brianna Butterworth:And, you know, the girl, you know, will borrow your watch or something like that, or she gives you her class ring or something like this.
Brianna Butterworth:I think that's what.
Brianna Butterworth:That's sort of what was going on, is that.
Brianna Butterworth:But I think Beast has got it right, is that she is that he.
Brianna Butterworth:Ripley, wanted to be Dickie Greenleaf.
Brianna Butterworth:And so then.
Brianna Butterworth:So at this point, he couldn't really be him, but he could hold on to that.
Brianna Butterworth:He could hold on to those.
Brianna Butterworth:Those rings that had been so closely connected to him, you know, so he could have that tiny little piece that he could carry with him, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:I'm going to read a quote from Roger Ebert because I really love his assessment of Tom Ripley, and I think he kind of nails it here.
Nathan Shore:Tom Ripley seems to have feelings for Dickie Greenleaf, although narcissism and sex, sexuality are so mixed up in his mind that Ripley seems to want to become Greenleaf so that he can love himself.
Nathan Shore:I think so.
Nathan Shore:I really like that.
Dave Merrill:I like that.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, I think so.
Brianna Butterworth:I mean, because that's the thing that's.
Brianna Butterworth:That's part of the nature of envy, is that it's not just this idea that you're like, oh, I want what this person has.
Brianna Butterworth:But it's not that you just want the possessions or even the lifestyle, which you do.
Brianna Butterworth:But it's more to the point of he wants to embody the happiness and the position that he thinks this other person has, you know, by their.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, by their role or by their.
Dave Merrill:Which is.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Dave Merrill:I mean, his.
Dave Merrill:This woman who was carrying his bastard child just, you know, killed herself.
Dave Merrill:Marge is devastated and upset and unhappy with him.
Dave Merrill:It's just insane to me.
Dave Merrill:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Is Dickie a nobody?
Nathan Shore:Because if this person is missing or dead, I mean, eventually there's this whole thing with a suicide note, and Meredith seems like a loose end.
Nathan Shore:We're going to get to this later on at the conclusion here, which can't be too much longer from now.
Nathan Shore:But why?
Nathan Shore:It seems like this somebody would know what Dickie looks like.
Nathan Shore:Wouldn't Peter know what Dickie looks like?
Nathan Shore:I feel like there were yearbooks.
Nathan Shore:There were pictures.
Nathan Shore:He's a son of a giant shipping builder tycoon.
Nathan Shore:Is this a plot hole in the movie that nobody knows what Dickie Greenleaf looks like?
Nathan Shore:Besides his passport photo?
Nathan Shore:This.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:You're looking at me, B.
Nathan Shore:You're looking at me like, well, what do you think?
Brianna Butterworth:That we have to transport ourselves back to a time 50s I know.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:The 50s.
Brianna Butterworth:So.
Brianna Butterworth:Before social media.
Brianna Butterworth:And so.
Brianna Butterworth:And also, like to answer.
Nathan Shore:Yearbook photo.
Brianna Butterworth:Right, Yearbook photo.
Brianna Butterworth:But the question.
Brianna Butterworth:The thing is, like.
Brianna Butterworth:Right, but if you think about it, you know, like, who would the yearbook photos be seen by?
Brianna Butterworth:You know, they're not on newsstands.
Nathan Shore:There's a death, there's a murder.
Nathan Shore:This is the one thing that kind of just doesn't work for me is that there's a suicide or that happens and there's an investigation.
Dave Merrill:So.
Dave Merrill:I have a degree.
Nathan Shore:Oh, sorry.
Nathan Shore:Go ahead.
Dave Merrill:I have a theory.
Dave Merrill:I think this is the director once again poking holes in the upper crust and how they move through the world.
Dave Merrill:I think this is.
Dave Merrill:You get by.
Dave Merrill:You trade in on your name and everybody looks the same, everybody behaves the same, Everybody comes from the same kind of family.
Dave Merrill:You are entirely replaceable in this world.
Dave Merrill:Yes, of course.
Dave Merrill:I think, you know, family, friends who grew up with him probably notice what he looks like, you would think.
Dave Merrill:But how outside of their own heads are they getting?
Dave Merrill:I think it's another.
Dave Merrill:This is a deeply narcissistic group of people who don't have to think about anybody else, who don't even have to look at anybody else, who has everybody else taking care of them.
Dave Merrill:They don't.
Dave Merrill:You know, they just.
Dave Merrill:They don't have to.
Dave Merrill:They trade in on their names and that's it.
Dave Merrill:So I thought.
Dave Merrill:I really thought it was like a criticism.
Nathan Shore:You're right, because it's.
Nathan Shore:You know, when they go to a post office or a bank or all these letters, they're not looking cool.
Nathan Shore:See, at these pictures, he's.
Nathan Shore:So.
Dave Merrill:So no, the cops are able to.
Nathan Shore:Put together a trailer.
Nathan Shore:Obviously, that's what they're saying in this movie.
Nathan Shore:But I still kind of like, you know, someone's gonna figure this out.
Nathan Shore:It's.
Brianna Butterworth:Well.
Brianna Butterworth:And.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, I thought that was interesting.
Brianna Butterworth:I would say, again, to Nathan's point, I would say that it's possible that there might have been like a time Wife spread of Herbert Greenleaf and his family at some point, and people would see it.
Brianna Butterworth:But the thing is that, again, not everyone would see it.
Brianna Butterworth:We're talking about a select few people.
Brianna Butterworth:It's like those yearbooks.
Brianna Butterworth:Who's really looking at a Princeton yearbook?
Brianna Butterworth:You know, not the guy on the street, and probably not people at an opera in Rome, you know, or that are in Rome for the season or whatever.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, casual tourist that they're going.
Brianna Butterworth:That they're going to remember it.
Brianna Butterworth:Interesting.
Brianna Butterworth:Another Jude Law film, You know, Gattaca, you know, where you Also have this transposition of identities with, again, with Jude Law.
Brianna Butterworth:And there's even the thing with Tony Shalhoub's character who is, you know, he is the guy that is the agent for the quote unquote, borrowed ladder, you know, Jude Law's character of his DNA.
Brianna Butterworth:And he said, well, what about photographs?
Brianna Butterworth:He's really with DNA test.
Brianna Butterworth:Who looks at photos anymore?
Brianna Butterworth:Because they have that whole little, you know, and it's just become a society where they just don't, you know, it's, you know, oh, well, you know, he's a, you know, he's a young American man, you know, looks a little bit like this.
Brianna Butterworth:Okay, so it, you know, is it or isn't it?
Brianna Butterworth:It's.
Brianna Butterworth:Well, again, I feel like it's.
Brianna Butterworth:This is the director channeling the writer, you know, channeling the novel.
Brianna Butterworth:The whole, you know, unreliable narrator telling a story, you know, to us.
Dave Merrill:So, you know, it's a great tense scene.
Dave Merrill:This movie's so great at carrying tension.
Dave Merrill:You know, it's really, it just because it's long, this movie is almost inexcusably long.
Nathan Shore:2 hours and 20 minutes.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, yeah, it's a long, very character driven movie.
Dave Merrill:But it's, it just keeps you there that whole time.
Dave Merrill:And it.
Dave Merrill:You get these little highs.
Dave Merrill:Like the opera scene.
Nathan Shore:Marge does find the rings.
Nathan Shore:And this is really intense because Dickie is in the bath.
Nathan Shore:I think there's also, we, we could talk about like the water themes in this movie.
Nathan Shore:Ocean, bathtubs, everything but.
Nathan Shore:And he comes out and he realizes that he's caught.
Nathan Shore:He's in this lie here.
Nathan Shore:But he's quickly pivots to professing his love for Marge in the scene as well.
Nathan Shore:And this turns.
Nathan Shore:I mean, I'm assuming that if Peter does not come to the door, he's gonna murder Marge in the scene.
Nathan Shore:I, I'm.
Nathan Shore:I guess I don't know if you got this feeling, but I love the way this is shot because it's really ratcheting up the tension and he is cornering Marge in this.
Dave Merrill:Oh, yeah.
Nathan Shore:Well, I do have a clip of it.
Nathan Shore:I love this.
Nathan Shore:Here it is.
Brianna Butterworth:Write it on a piece of paper or something and put it in your purse for a rainy day.
Nathan Shore:Tom loves me.
Brianna Butterworth:Tom loves me.
Brianna Butterworth:Why do you have Dickie's rings?
Brianna Butterworth:I told you.
Nathan Shore:He gave them to me.
Brianna Butterworth:Why?
Nathan Shore:When I feel as if you haven't been listening to anything I've been saying to you.
Brianna Butterworth:I don't believe you.
Brianna Butterworth:I don't believe you.
Brianna Butterworth:It's all true.
Brianna Butterworth:I don't believe a single word you've said.
Nathan Shore:You're shivering, Marge.
Nathan Shore:Look at you.
Brianna Butterworth:Marge, can I hold you?
Nathan Shore:Will you let me hold you?
Dave Merrill:God.
Dave Merrill:Isolated.
Dave Merrill:That really sounds like a horror movie, huh?
Nathan Shore:It's intense.
Dave Merrill:Gwyneth Paltrow is acting her ass.
Nathan Shore:I was gonna say.
Nathan Shore:I think this is Peak Paltrow.
Nathan Shore:I don't know if.
Nathan Shore:I mean, she won the Academy Award for Shakespeare in Love.
Nathan Shore:But this is the Mount Rushmore for Paltrow.
Nathan Shore:For me, easily.
Brianna Butterworth:Although I would say that I did enjoy her Royal Tenenbaums.
Brianna Butterworth:But I'm a Wes Anderson fan, too, so there you go.
Nathan Shore:I think we should get to the conclusion of this because they get to the ferry at the end of this because Dickie has.
Nathan Shore:I'm sorry.
Nathan Shore:Well, Dickie, Tom, whomever, has pretty much offed everybody in his life that can tie him to who he is, including Freddy.
Nathan Shore:Now he is with Peter, which is kind of.
Nathan Shore:You know what's interesting?
Nathan Shore: This is: Nathan Shore:I think they do dance around Tom's homosexuality in this film.
Nathan Shore:It's.
Nathan Shore:We never blatantly see him, like, ever kiss a man.
Nathan Shore:And I.
Nathan Shore:This is not billed as a gay film, of course, or anything like that.
Dave Merrill:Yes.
Nathan Shore:And I don't think audiences.
Dave Merrill:Well, the author has come out and said she doesn't think that he's gay and that the text is much more ambiguous and it's more about the use of sex to get what he needs.
Dave Merrill:But it's sort of regardless of gender.
Dave Merrill:I think the movie's much more explicit.
Nathan Shore:Interesting.
Dave Merrill:From what it sounds like.
Dave Merrill:And Dave, maybe you can confirm, but.
Dave Merrill:So I wonder if not spelling it out in the movie is sort of more a character decision than it is.
Brianna Butterworth:I mean, it gets it.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, eventually it gets there, and then you understand, oh, they're in a relationship.
Brianna Butterworth:And there's a whole thing about the whole exchange of the key with the whole.
Brianna Butterworth:With the confrontation with Marge at the apartment.
Brianna Butterworth:And he says, I could come back later.
Brianna Butterworth:And then he gives.
Brianna Butterworth:He takes a key off the key ring and gives it to him.
Brianna Butterworth:He's your key.
Brianna Butterworth:And it's okay, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:But there was subtle language, like, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:And I was told this by an older friend of mine that's gay who's, you know, who watched the film.
Brianna Butterworth:And he says.
Brianna Butterworth:He goes, didn't you pick up on the whole thing when he.
Brianna Butterworth:There at the opera?
Brianna Butterworth:And he says, you know, I hope you get to Venice before we sink.
Brianna Butterworth:I was really looking forward to rowing you around.
Brianna Butterworth:And I was like, for me, you know, who's straight, you know, I was like, what?
Brianna Butterworth:And he's rowing him around.
Brianna Butterworth:Really, you know, it was like, think about the motion of rowing someone.
Brianna Butterworth:And I was like, okay, all right.
Brianna Butterworth:Okay, all right.
Brianna Butterworth:He's not talking about.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, okay, all right, I get it, I get it.
Dave Merrill:It's pretty explicit.
Dave Merrill:And then especially I think that interrogation scene with a cop where he's, oh, you don't have homosexuals in Italy.
Nathan Shore:There are actually no homosexuals in Italy.
Dave Merrill:So, yeah, we get it.
Dave Merrill:You know, we get it.
Dave Merrill:But I think the motivation behind his sexual tris is intentionally ambiguous, not because they didn't know how to market it in the 90s or they didn't want it to be a queer film.
Dave Merrill:I think it's more of a character.
Brianna Butterworth:I agree.
Brianna Butterworth:But although it is, I think it also, again, you know, it kind of speaks to.
Brianna Butterworth:It speaks to the genius of the thing because it, you know, it operates on a level where, you know, it doesn't.
Brianna Butterworth:They don't have to.
Brianna Butterworth:It doesn't have to, like, it doesn't have to wear that, you know, you know, on the shoulder to say, you know, look, this is a.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, this is a.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, this is a gay themed film.
Brianna Butterworth:It's just.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, it's just that this character happens to be, you know, happens to be, you know, this way gay or.
Brianna Butterworth:I'm not even sure.
Brianna Butterworth:The thing is, for me is I'm even sort of left with the confusion of is Ripley, you know, gay?
Brianna Butterworth:Or is he just, you know, I mean, he certainly, you know, he is certainly attracted to Dickie, but in other novels, you know, and in other novels and other stories, he's attracted to women.
Brianna Butterworth:So, you know, what, you know, what is he really, you know, I mean, is he.
Brianna Butterworth:What is he, you know, is he bi?
Dave Merrill:Is he bi?
Dave Merrill:Is he.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, right.
Nathan Shore:On the ferry he runs.
Nathan Shore:This is at the end of the movie.
Nathan Shore:On the ferry, he runs into Meredith.
Nathan Shore:And, you know, the seed was planted early on where he identifies himself as Dickie, you know, early on.
Nathan Shore:And this is the one person that knows that he is or knows him as Dickie.
Nathan Shore:And what I found interesting is that, you know, and then there's his.
Nathan Shore:Her Aunt Joan or other people that see him from afar.
Nathan Shore:But he decides that in order to continue the facade, he has to go back to his room because Dickie, Sorry, Meredith.
Nathan Shore:So many names.
Nathan Shore:Meredith knows Peter that he has to murder Peter to continue this.
Nathan Shore:Why do you think that Peter is the one that has to die and not Meredith?
Nathan Shore:Because Meredith seems like the natural loose end here.
Nathan Shore:Because Peter knows him as Dickie.
Nathan Shore:Why keep the one person alive that still knows him as Dickie?
Nathan Shore:This is something that.
Nathan Shore:I don't know if there's theories on this.
Dave Merrill:I never really thought about it.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, I think.
Brianna Butterworth:I guess it's a thing of.
Nathan Shore:Throw her overboard.
Brianna Butterworth:Well, but remember she maybe not.
Nathan Shore:I don't know.
Nathan Shore:Remember she's with family.
Brianna Butterworth:She's with family.
Brianna Butterworth:So then it would be a thing of.
Brianna Butterworth:If she turns up, you know, if she turns up missing, you know, the family.
Brianna Butterworth:In other words, you can't murder the whole family.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, I think it was really a question of numbers.
Brianna Butterworth:So it was.
Brianna Butterworth:Think of if he murders, you know, the calculation.
Brianna Butterworth:If he murders Meredith, the family on board is going to demand, you know, they're going to demand an investigation, you know, and everything.
Brianna Butterworth:But then if Peter disappears, is that easier for him to cover up?
Nathan Shore:You know, I mean, Peter is not a nobody, though.
Nathan Shore:He is a musician.
Nathan Shore:He's got a very good gig working in with this orchestra.
Nathan Shore:It's not like he is a nobody can just disappear.
Nathan Shore:He's got some.
Nathan Shore:He must have some ties.
Nathan Shore:And I get that.
Nathan Shore:I'm just a little.
Nathan Shore:I'm looking for a deeper meaning into.
Brianna Butterworth:Why he made that choice.
Dave Merrill:But do you think it's about wanting to be.
Dave Merrill:Wanting to be Dickie?
Dave Merrill:So killing the person who knows him as Tom?
Brianna Butterworth:Maybe.
Dave Merrill:I think in this isolated story in the canon, it is about him wanting to sort of get away with the ruse.
Dave Merrill:And the ruse is that he's Dicky.
Dave Merrill:And, you know, I.
Dave Merrill:But I don't know.
Dave Merrill:But then he's on a ferry whisking away with Peter.
Dave Merrill:So I don't.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, maybe not.
Dave Merrill:Maybe he likes to.
Dave Merrill:Maybe he's going to assume his identity.
Nathan Shore:When he kills him.
Nathan Shore:It might be easier to assume his identity.
Nathan Shore:Is he wear.
Nathan Shore:I have to look at, is he wearing his clothes at the end or anything like that?
Brianna Butterworth:He is wearing his coat.
Brianna Butterworth:He's wearing.
Brianna Butterworth:He's, you know, now that you mentioned it, because the coat that he has, you know, which is a particular type of English, you know, it's called a duffel coat.
Brianna Butterworth:I know because I have one.
Brianna Butterworth:And you know, with the toggles on it and everything.
Brianna Butterworth:And you see Peter in several scenes, like when he first greets Tom in Venice at St Mark's Square, he's wearing it.
Brianna Butterworth:And then when he waves to him from the boat, like Tom is coming up on the boat and he's walking along the square and he waves at him he's wearing the overcoat.
Brianna Butterworth:And then at the very end scene, after, you know, Tom is in his cabin alone, you know, and where they're playing the.
Brianna Butterworth:They're playing the outro and the credits rolling up, Ripley is sitting there and he's wearing Peter's overcoat, which he'd been wearing on deck when he kissed Meredith and even makes a joke, he makes a reference to it.
Brianna Butterworth:He says, that's the reason for the get up.
Brianna Butterworth:That's the reason for these clothes.
Brianna Butterworth:Right, right.
Brianna Butterworth:Because the thing is that also those.
Brianna Butterworth:That coat is not.
Brianna Butterworth:I mean, like, you would see it on American Ivy League campuses at the time, but it's something very English.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, it was something that was made as, you know, as like a.
Brianna Butterworth:A uniform coat for the Navy and then, you know, probably sold in, like, surplus stores.
Brianna Butterworth: , by the: Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:So, yeah, it's a great.
Dave Merrill:What a good movie.
Nathan Shore:Well, we've been talking for an hour about this film.
Brianna Butterworth:We could for a while.
Nathan Shore:Let's take a break and get to our final thoughts and our ratings and our vote decision on this.
Brianna Butterworth:Hey, you fool.
Brianna Butterworth:Who left you in here?
Dave Merrill:Baby, what are you doing here in Rome?
Nathan Shore:Make a picture.
Brianna Butterworth:No.
Brianna Butterworth:You look awful.
Dave Merrill:You like my sexy beard?
Nathan Shore:Take it easy, kids.
Brianna Butterworth:Take my shoes off.
Nathan Shore:All right, so thank you for tuning into our podcast.
Nathan Shore:If you're enjoying it, please hit the subscribe button to get new episodes in your feed each and every week.
Nathan Shore:We don't have a budget for paid advertising, so we rely on you, our listeners, to help us spread the word.
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Nathan Shore:Or better yet, tell the people in your life who love movies about.
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Nathan Shore:We're going to get to our review.
Nathan Shore:Our final thoughts on this, our Vault decision.
Nathan Shore:Whether a talented Mr.
Nathan Shore:Ripley is going to be saved or purged into the fiery apocalypse.
Nathan Shore:Let's get to it.
Nathan Shore:Let's get to it.
Nathan Shore:David, you are our distinguished guest.
Nathan Shore:Give us your final thoughts on talented Mr.
Nathan Shore:Ripley and your rating and your Vault decision.
Brianna Butterworth:Oh, I give it a solid five.
Brianna Butterworth:A Roman numeral five.
Brianna Butterworth:Anyway, this is, you know, Mingella's telling of Mr.
Brianna Butterworth:Ripley is one of those, you know, rare adaptions that I feel like really is, you know, it actually, it really enhances the source material.
Brianna Butterworth:It's actually, it's.
Brianna Butterworth:I think that for 21st century audiences, it's much more accessible than the novel.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, I am a fan of the novel.
Brianna Butterworth:I do the novel.
Brianna Butterworth:I do think you should read the source material.
Brianna Butterworth:But I think that it, you know, it makes the, you know, it gives you a more well, rounded view, you know, of the characters or it being, you know, somewhat of, you know, having mystery.
Brianna Butterworth:At least it gives you a better impression for me, you know, of the characters then, you know, than even the novel does.
Brianna Butterworth:So.
Brianna Butterworth:And I would say that it should be saved.
Brianna Butterworth:It should go into the Vault.
Brianna Butterworth:Yes.
Brianna Butterworth:So that's my rating and my review.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, to the manner born.
Dave Merrill:I love this movie.
Dave Merrill:It's compelling, it's captivating, it's dreamy and ethereal.
Dave Merrill:It's everything I like in a movie.
Dave Merrill:It's a solid four and a half for me.
Dave Merrill:Yes, to the Vault.
Dave Merrill:If not just for a better study on inner motivations of characters, we could use more of this.
Nathan Shore:Excellent.
Nathan Shore:And for me, I.
Nathan Shore:I think this is just one of those movies that stays with you, not just because how beautifully crafted it is, but because of how deeply unsettling it feels.
Nathan Shore:It's also rare for a film to draw you in with such a glamorous setting and stunning cinematography as well as magnetic performances.
Nathan Shore:It's lush.
Nathan Shore:I mean, everything is just like honey soaked.
Nathan Shore:The lighting in this lush.
Nathan Shore: nd it's this idyllic world of: Nathan Shore:You want to go back there.
Nathan Shore:That's what is so special about this.
Nathan Shore:You got the golden beaches and jazz clubs.
Nathan Shore:It's painting a fantasy, but it's, you know, it slowly starts to wrap you in with a suffocating sense of dread.
Nathan Shore:And it's a pretty neat trick.
Nathan Shore:I think what also makes this so emotionally gripping is just how it forces us to.
Nathan Shore:Forces us to live in Ripley's head.
Nathan Shore:And Matt Damon plays him with such precision.
Nathan Shore:And you almost start to understand his desperation and his longing to be someone else.
Nathan Shore:So it's as fascinating and terrifying because you catch yourself empathizing with him and even rooting for him in this really uncomfortable way.
Nathan Shore:And then things spiral out of control.
Nathan Shore:And you feel the pit, this pit in your stomach, because you know where it's heading and you're powerless to stop It.
Nathan Shore:And I said this at the top of the show.
Nathan Shore:This is one of the most perfectly cast movies of all time.
Nathan Shore:You've got Damon, Jude Law, Paltrow and Cate Blanchett and Philip Seymour Hoffman, five actors, all either on the brink of superstardom or probably in Paltrow's case, and right in the peak of her career.
Nathan Shore:And Paltrow, we talked about her a little bit, but I think in particular, it really hit me.
Nathan Shore:There's just a specific kind of heartbreak in how she plays Marge.
Nathan Shore:And I know this is technically a supporting performance, but I said it before.
Nathan Shore:This is on my mount.
Nathan Shore:Rush more of her roles.
Nathan Shore:For me, she's this good in this movie.
Nathan Shore:It's rare thing for a movie to be, you know, gorgeous and emotionally devastating at the same time, but somehow it accomplished this perfectly.
Nathan Shore:And it leaves you equally parts in awe and unsettled.
Nathan Shore:This is.
Nathan Shore:I don't know if I can give.
Nathan Shore:If I can top five stars, which is what I'm giving it, so maybe six stars.
Nathan Shore:But this is a fantastic film, so.
Nathan Shore:And yes, it definitely needs to go in the vault.
Brianna Butterworth:I agree.
Nathan Shore:Let's quickly knock out some movie pairings and then let's wrap it up tonight.
Dave Merrill:Sir, What?
Brianna Butterworth:Are either one of these any good?
Brianna Butterworth:I don't watch movies.
Brianna Butterworth:Well, have you heard anything about either one of.
Brianna Butterworth:I find it's best to stay out of other people's affairs.
Dave Merrill:You mean you haven't heard anybody say.
Nathan Shore:Anything about either one of these?
Nathan Shore:Nope.
Dave Merrill:Well, what about these two?
Nathan Shore:Oh, they suck.
Nathan Shore:All right, time for movie pairings where each of us is going to pair up a film to go with the talented Mr.
Nathan Shore:Ripley for the ultimate double feature.
Nathan Shore:Dave, you are our guest tonight.
Nathan Shore:What movie are you recommending?
Brianna Butterworth:So this is.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, I think we talked about this a little bit at the top of the show.
Brianna Butterworth:It's difficult to do one, but I will attempt to explain.
Brianna Butterworth:Okay, these are the art house double bills that I would do with options.
Brianna Butterworth:So probably the most obvious, and you see this in a lot of reviews here lately, is everybody saying, you should come.
Brianna Butterworth:You should.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, if you watched Saltburn, you should watch talent and Mr.
Brianna Butterworth:Ripley because it's so obviously, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:You know, it's so obviously, like, derivative of that, which having seen them both and enjoyed both of them for different reasons.
Brianna Butterworth:Well, okay, sure.
Brianna Butterworth:But I sort of feel like that's the easy way out.
Brianna Butterworth:Okay.
Brianna Butterworth:A less easier way out would be to go back and look at.
Brianna Butterworth:Look at another film which I feel was, you know, was also based on Patricia Highsmith.
Brianna Butterworth:And it was Alfred Hitchcock, Strangers on a Train.
Brianna Butterworth:And so Hitchcock was already an established filmmaker when he made this, and Patricia Highsmith was still a young author.
Brianna Butterworth:I think that when it came out, she wasn't even 30 years old yet.
Brianna Butterworth:But Hitchcock started making a bestseller list.
Brianna Butterworth:And Hitchcock looking for material like that quickly was, I want to make this into a film.
Brianna Butterworth:And he did.
Brianna Butterworth:It's very effective.
Brianna Butterworth:It's a great film.
Brianna Butterworth:The themes, you know, the themes about, you know, murder and homosexual attraction and, you know, identity, you know, switching and the deconfusion there, that's, you know, it's runs throughout that.
Brianna Butterworth:And you get the idea that, you know, if Hitchcock were alive, you know, would he certainly.
Brianna Butterworth:I feel like he probably would have made very similar film to Mangello's talented Mr.
Brianna Butterworth:Ripley.
Brianna Butterworth:So strangers on a Train.
Brianna Butterworth:Now, okay, if having recently returned from Italy, this is my sort of wild card.
Brianna Butterworth:If you want a really beautiful view of Rome from a Roman point of view and from a Roman filmmaker's point of view.
Brianna Butterworth: Beauty or La gran Belize from: Brianna Butterworth:Look, it's a love letter to Rome.
Brianna Butterworth:I mean, much in the way that Fellini's films are, but even much more accessible.
Brianna Butterworth:My personal experience with the film is that when I was planning my last trip to Rome with my cousin and his wife, we were talking about trying to find the apartment of the main character and just saying, hey, it would be really cool if we could just go and find where they shot that and look at it from the street.
Brianna Butterworth:Well, my cousin, being the person that he is, really did the research.
Brianna Butterworth:And he was like.
Brianna Butterworth:He goes, okay.
Brianna Butterworth:He goes, well, I got a surprise.
Brianna Butterworth:He goes, I did a little research.
Brianna Butterworth:He goes, here's the address that I found for the location.
Brianna Butterworth:Here's the address of the Airbnb that I booked for us.
Brianna Butterworth:And I was like, wait a minute.
Brianna Butterworth:He goes, yeah, it's the same building I couldn't get.
Brianna Butterworth:He goes, I'm going to tell you.
Brianna Butterworth:He goes, I have to warn you, I have to let you down.
Brianna Butterworth:It's not the penthouse like the main character.
Brianna Butterworth:It's two floors below.
Brianna Butterworth:But the view from this place was that there's this tiny little balcony, but then you open the French doors, the balcony, and directly in front of this residence is the Roman Colosseum.
Brianna Butterworth:Every morning and every evening that you return to this apartment, you see the Roman Colosseum right there, just as you do, just as they show you in that film.
Brianna Butterworth:So let's see.
Brianna Butterworth:Talk about being yeah, there he is, actually.
Brianna Butterworth:And what's.
Brianna Butterworth:What's really funny about you mentioning that is there was a smaller bust of that in the Airbnb that we were in.
Brianna Butterworth:I was like, oh, boy.
Brianna Butterworth:Okay, this is a little.
Nathan Shore:Everyone stay away from it.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, this is a little strange and cool, and thankfully, it looks pristine from Fresh from the gift shop and not stained with anything old and brown, you know, or what have you.
Brianna Butterworth:So it was fine.
Brianna Butterworth:So that's.
Brianna Butterworth:But I would.
Brianna Butterworth:But.
Brianna Butterworth:So if you love Italy, I would say La Grand Valisa along with this.
Brianna Butterworth:But if you really want the cinephile connection, I would say Hitchcock, Strangers on a Train, you know, because this.
Brianna Butterworth:I feel like Mengele.
Brianna Butterworth:I feel like this film was sort of like his homage or love letter to Hitchcock's approach to filmmaking, you know, with the plot twists and the turns, even with some of the camera angles.
Brianna Butterworth:So that's.
Brianna Butterworth:That's.
Nathan Shore:Thank you.
Nathan Shore:Yep, we've got some couple awesome choices.
Nathan Shore:B.
Nathan Shore:What is your pick?
Dave Merrill: Another: Dave Merrill:I went with tracing the theme of hot young people, twisted mind games and queer sexuality.
Dave Merrill:I went for Cruel Intentions.
Nathan Shore:Good one.
Dave Merrill:Roger Crumble.
Dave Merrill:This is Ripley, but super camp.
Dave Merrill:You know, Reese Witherspoon comes into a new school.
Dave Merrill:She's the headmaster's daughter, and she's very pure and virginal.
Dave Merrill:And enter Sarah Michelle Geller and Ryan Phillip.
Dave Merrill:Or Philippe.
Nathan Shore:Philippe, sure.
Dave Merrill:And they're twisted, psychosexual sibling games that they ensnare Reese Witherspoon into.
Dave Merrill:It's so gross and fun and sick and.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, campy's really the word that comes to mind for that, but in that very specific 90s dark way.
Dave Merrill:It's so much fun.
Dave Merrill:And I think it.
Dave Merrill:I would watch Ripley and then I would watch this movie just for the.
Dave Merrill:The final shot of Rhys.
Nathan Shore:Awesome.
Nathan Shore:I haven't seen this in so long.
Nathan Shore: g this might make it into our: Dave Merrill:That's a good one.
Dave Merrill:I think Ripley's the better movie, but this is just so fun.
Nathan Shore:Yeah, I'm up my pick my movie pairing.
Nathan Shore:This week I went with a similar theme where our main protagonist is a sociopathic character, which I think is a formula that makes for an interesting story.
Nathan Shore:Hence I went with Nightcrawler from Dan Gilroy, which is my pick.
Nathan Shore:This came out.
Dave Merrill:Oh, my God.
Dave Merrill:Being bisexual is loving both the Gyllenhaal's.
Dave Merrill:Let me tell you guys, it is pain.
Dave Merrill:It is pain.
Nathan Shore: This came out in: Nathan Shore:Nightcrawler is about Lewis Bloom, morally devoid loner who struggles to find work but stumbles across the world of crime journalism and where you race to crime scenes, accidents and such.
Nathan Shore:To be the first to record these tragedies and sell it to local news outlets.
Nathan Shore:The adrenaline of his job just really drive his ambition.
Nathan Shore:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:So Nightcrawler and the Talented Mr.
Nathan Shore:Ripley I think is a great movie.
Nathan Shore:Pairing two very disturbed but ambitious sociopathic characters.
Nathan Shore:And between Matt Damon in the talented Mr.
Nathan Shore:Ripley and Jake Gyllenhaal in this movie, they both lost enough weight where they would both fit into Dickie's bathtub with ease.
Dave Merrill:Importantly, Nightcrawler, not a movie about the X Men character.
Nathan Shore:I checked the streaming on stars right now or you can rent it on vod.
Dave Merrill:Nice.
Nathan Shore:And I was checking some of your other picks that you mentioned.
Nathan Shore:Cruel Intentions is on freebie.
Nathan Shore:As long as freebie is still a thing, which I think is going away soon.
Nathan Shore:And it's on vod and Strangers on a Train is on Criterion in Tubi, in vod.
Nathan Shore:And I didn't get the spelling of your other pick, David, so I don't know where.
Dave Merrill:If you just do the Great Beauty, you'll be able to find the English translation.
Nathan Shore:Everyone can google that and find out where that might be available.
Dave Merrill:And then go watch the Young Pope and the New Pope because those are also very solid.
Dave Merrill:Paolo Sorrentino works.
Brianna Butterworth:Absolutely.
Brianna Butterworth:Thank you.
Brianna Butterworth:Thank you for reminding me of that.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Brianna Butterworth:So good.
Brianna Butterworth:And another.
Brianna Butterworth:You get to.
Brianna Butterworth:You get another dose of Jude Law.
Brianna Butterworth:So.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, you do.
Brianna Butterworth:There's that.
Brianna Butterworth:Which, you know, having survived Catholic school and then watching that role, it just like Derry Girls, it just has me kind of like, you know, I'm amazed and laughing all at the same time, you know.
Brianna Butterworth:Very cool, you know, to see a pope order a.
Brianna Butterworth:What does he order?
Brianna Butterworth:Is.
Brianna Butterworth:It's a diet cherry Coke or something and he's smoking a cigarette and you know, it's.
Dave Merrill:Yeah, he's very cool.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah, he's very cool as a Pope.
Brianna Butterworth:Which is not normally something we should go in a sentence together, but there it is.
Nathan Shore:David, thank you so much for joining us again this week.
Nathan Shore:Where can people find you if they want to see anything that you're working on?
Nathan Shore:Do you have anything you want to share?
Brianna Butterworth:Well, I'm, I am on, you know, the kids are on the social media now, you know, so there's, you know, there's the Facebook, you know, or I even have a.
Brianna Butterworth:I don't Use it very often.
Brianna Butterworth:But I have an Instagram, you know, which the Instagram is under my.
Brianna Butterworth:I think it's like, you don't have.
Nathan Shore:To give up personal.
Brianna Butterworth:Okay.
Nathan Shore:Social media feed.
Nathan Shore:A watch.
Nathan Shore:I know there was like a home for any projects you're working on.
Brianna Butterworth:Not yet there.
Brianna Butterworth:Hopefully there will be, but not yet.
Nathan Shore:Okay, so we'll.
Nathan Shore:That's pending.
Brianna Butterworth:That's pending.
Nathan Shore:Maybe next time you're with us, you'll.
Nathan Shore:There might be.
Brianna Butterworth:There might be.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:Okay.
Nathan Shore:Next week we are watching and discussing election.
Nathan Shore:Oh, so Alexander Payne.
Nathan Shore:I'm looking forward to that.
Dave Merrill:I can't wait.
Brianna Butterworth:Great film.
Brianna Butterworth:Yeah.
Nathan Shore:And I think that is on Criterion right now.
Nathan Shore:I think probably.
Dave Merrill:I think it's been with Criterion for a while.
Brianna Butterworth:And so there is a new Cruel Intentions limited series.
Brianna Butterworth:I believe it's on Amazon.
Brianna Butterworth:I have not seen this yet, but I'm very curious.
Brianna Butterworth:When you mentioned that, I was like, okay, yeah, that's another one that, you know, needs to go back into the mix.
Dave Merrill:It's a good movie.
Brianna Butterworth:It is.
Brianna Butterworth:If you're a fan of the, like Dangerous Liaisons came out when I was in junior high or high school or something, and I love that.
Brianna Butterworth:So then Cruel Intentions came out and was like, okay, I can like this too.
Dave Merrill:Right?
Brianna Butterworth:You know.
Nathan Shore:Well, let's wrap it up.
Nathan Shore:That's our show for this week.
Nathan Shore:Back to the Frame Rate as part of the West Indies Media Podcast Network.
Nathan Shore:Special thanks to Brian Ellsworth for our show opening.
Nathan Shore:On behalf of all of us, we bid you farewell from the fall shelter.
Nathan Shore:If you're enjoying the show, please subscribe and leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favorite podcast platform.
Nathan Shore:Find more episodes@backtotheframerate.com and follow us on our social media platforms at.
Nathan Shore:Back to the Frame Rate.
Nathan Shore:Your support support brightens our bunker.
Nathan Shore:Until next time, stay with us with with us.
Nathan Shore:Keep hope alive and share our show with your friends.
Nathan Shore:This is the end of our transmission.
Nathan Shore:Back to the Frame Rate signing.
Dave Merrill:I want you to know it's over.
Nathan Shore:Well.
Dave Merrill:Bye.
Brianna Butterworth:That's the tank.
