Welcome to the No Grey Areas podcast! In this episode, we have the privilege of hosting former NAVY SEAL, TEDTalk speaker, and author, Jason Redman. Prepare to be inspired as Jason shares his remarkable journey of survival, resilience, and transformation.

On September 13, 2007, Jason was shot in the face eight times, yet this wasn't the worst day of his life. From facing career setbacks and hitting rock bottom to contemplating suicide, Jason's true story is a testament to the power of mindset and perseverance. He reminds us to be thankful for the hard moments, as they train us for success and equip us with the skills needed for future challenges.

Throughout the episode, Jason shares invaluable insights, including the importance of getting off the 'X'—the point of crisis—and turning tragedy into purpose. He challenges the notion of victimhood and encourages us to embrace each day as a gift.

For more information or to connect with Jason, visit his website: https://jasonredman.com/

Be sure to like our podcast, share it with a friend, and leave a review!

You can also watch the video versions on our YouTube channel. Be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss out on the next inspiring and motivating interview!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbnC2rjEumGJhqy54qazFFw

Connect with us on our website and social media platforms for more engaging, inspiring, and motivating content.

WEBSITE: https://www.nogreyareaspodcast.com/

INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/nogreyareas_gagliano/

FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/NoGreyAreas

TIK TOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@nogreyareasgagliano

EMAIL: info@nogreyareas.com

No Grey Areas is a motivational podcast with captivating guests centered around how our choices humanize, empower, and define who we become. This podcast is inspired by the cautionary tale, No Grey Areas, written by Joseph Gagliano. Learn more about the truth behind his story involved with sports' biggest scandal at nogreyareas.com

Host

Welcome to the No Gray Areas podcast. Today we have the honor of hosting former Navy Seal Ted talk speaker and author Jason Redmond. You are going to be left speechless as we delve into Jason's miraculous story of survival, how he turned tragedy into purpose, and how it's never too late to get off the ax. Let's jump in.

Pat McCalla

Jason Redmond, welcome to the No Gray Areas podcast. It is an honor to have you on.

Pat McCalla

I want to just jump into the deep end of the pool.

Pat McCalla

All right.

Pat McCalla

Jason Redman

without a doubt. So although there's a lot there's many more layers to that story, which is interesting. We can get into that. But,

Jason Redman

I would tell you that September 13th is not the worst day in my life.

Pat McCalla

Okay. Now let's set that up for our audience because again, I just jumped right in. So they don't know

Jason Redman

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Most of them don't know for sure what happened on that day. So tell us what happened on that day and then

Pat McCalla

what in the world. Why is not that not the worst day of your life?

Jason Redman

Jason Redman

night vision goggles, shot off. turn to try and move to where my guys were, and I caught a round in the face. bullet caught me right in front of the ear. Traveled through my face, took off my nose, blew out my right cheekbone, vaporized my orbital floor. Broke all the bones above my, broke the, head of my jaw, shattered my jaw to my chin, and it knocked me out.

Jason Redman

And, and that was, pretty intense gunfight. a lot of people have found that gunfight online. It's been featured in documentaries. it ended up we ended up having to call fire directly on our position. My team leader. obviously, I was out of the fight at this point, and my team leader took over, and, the guys did an amazing job fighting back.

Pat McCalla

force commander on that one.

Jason Redman

I was the, officer. I was the officer in charge. And the team leader is the senior enlisted.

Pat McCalla

Okay. Okay.

Pat McCalla

So, yeah, this is an intense gunfight.

Jason Redman

Yeah. Very intense. I mean, probably only about 45ft from the machine gun guns that had me pinned down. We estimate there were probably 15 enemy shooters, and there were, six of us. We originally a nine man team that got separated and some pretty dense vegetation.

Jason Redman

The other three members held off and were out in the fight at this point. And then it became the six of us. And actually it was just five shields and our interpreter. So interpreter didn't carry a gun. So suddenly it was the five of us, and three out of the five were hit in the first couple of minutes of that gunfight.

Jason Redman

and, when people find that, you know, it's been featured on Discovery Channel, you know, several times, I mean,

Jason Redman

obviously millions of people have now seen it on The Sean Ryan Show, and you get both my perspective and a team mate of mine that was there, DJ Shipley, who went on to see a lot of combat over the years and basically said it was the most intense gunfight he was ever in.

Jason Redman

but, yeah, pretty, pretty, monumental moment. like I said, I owe my life to my teammates. My team leader ran forward under fire, got me back behind the tire and got, turning on my arm that had been shot, which I thought I actually thought my arm had been shot off. in the gunfight.

Jason Redman

I lost all feeling, you know, I had nerve damage, so I couldn't feel my hand or arm. And it's about 3 a.m. in the morning. He got me back to the tire, got a tourniquet on my arm. and they packed my face as best they could. before, the firefight lasted almost 40 minutes. so what we estimate.

Pat McCalla

that's a long time. Right?

Jason Redman

it is eternity

Jason Redman

I mean, when you were pinned down by, very large bullets

Jason Redman

traveling only about eight inches above you, and you're trying to return fire. and guys are bleeding out, and you only have limited ammo, and that's pretty much what happened. My team leader recognized that two things were going to happen.

Jason Redman

One, they initially thought I was dead. I was unconscious before I came to and called out to them, and they realized I was still alive. And that's when he made the decision to run forward, to get me and bring me back. So I owe my wife to him. And then our other two guys are all shot up and we're running out of ammo.

Jason Redman

So he basically at that point we had a, a C-130 gunship up overhead, which is an amazing Air Force platform, precision, air to ground system that, probably has saved more lives on the battlefield than any other air platform out there. I know it saved my life on multiple nights, on deployments and, and they brought in that fire mission, and we were so close.

Jason Redman

We were oftentimes you hear in movies, they talk about danger, close parameters. And, we were extreme danger close. And initially they denied the fire missions. Twice they denied it, saying, hey, if you guys can't figure out a way to move back, we just can't bring this in. We'll kill you guys. And and finally, on the third call, my team leader said, hey, look, if you don't bring this and we're not, there's nobody going to be left.

Jason Redman

I mean, we're going to run out of ammo and these guys are going to bleed out and die and we're going to be overrun. So,

Jason Redman

the gunship relented and said, okay, you know, you're basically you're accepting the fact that we may kill you when we release this fire mission. And my team leader accepted it and, told him what he needed to do, and they brought it in.

Jason Redman

And I mean,

Jason Redman

when I was an enlisted guy. I was, prior to Jack. So Jack's call is a military term for a joint tactical air controller. These are guys that become experts and speaking to aircraft, and they understand bombs and, the parameters of bombs and bullets and all those things.

Jason Redman

And I had done that back when I was enlisted. Guy, before I became an officer. So I,

Jason Redman

done this a lot and, and experienced that a lot, but never like this where we were so close when my team leader said, hey, incoming.

Jason Redman

you literally could hear the gun go off up in the sky. And then it was like, I don't know, probably 5 or 6 second delay.

Jason Redman

One went down or two went downstream at that point and before the rounds impacted directly in front of us and blew up over us. And miraculously, we were not hit. and it it worked. It took out, the enemy, or at least it injured the enemy and it stopped,

Jason Redman

at least one of the machine guns, if not both in that initial volley.

Jason Redman

And then we ended up calling in multiple more fire missions, which enabled us to bring in the medevac helicopter

Jason Redman

and get us out of there. So, yeah, it was, pretty intense. And I.

Pat McCalla

go to say the least. Jason, once you were shot, then you said it was another 40 minutes or so

Pat McCalla

before they

Jason Redman

Yes.

Pat McCalla

helicopter. And

Pat McCalla

you, and you had mentioned that. So you said that DJ actually shared his side of the story, too, and that they thought you were actually dead at first.

Jason Redman

Yeah, they saw me get hit. and what's funny is if you read my book,

Jason Redman

we told the book from my viewpoint of what I understood in the moment. And I have lots of notes where I had written all this down in the very beginning. when I got to the hospital, I had my side of the story, which was funny because I was convinced I told the doctors I never lost consciousness during the firefight, which actually we found, I found out later was not true.

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Jason Redman

I had I drifted out, I was initially knocked out, and then I came to and apparently I drifted in and out of consciousness throughout that gunfight and even on the medevac ride, to, to Baghdad.

Jason Redman

so the guys filled in the story. So in the book, the very opening of the book, we tell the story from my viewpoint of what I understood in the moment, which was I thought my arm got shot off and and how I thought it happened later.

Jason Redman

We filled in the gaps and, the guys, I actually thought that somehow I got shot in the face when I was on the ground. But, what happened apparently, is there was a lull in fire. I had already been shot multiple times, and I got up and I tried to run back to where the guys were, and that's where I caught the round in the face.

Jason Redman

It caught me from behind. They saw me get hit, fall and thought I was dead. because obviously,

Jason Redman

there most of us out there that get shot in the head don't, don't walk away from it.

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Absolutely. Which, again, brings up the point. You were probably centimeters away from us not having this conversation today, right? I mean, if those any of those bullets, the ones that hit you in the arm, if they hit an artery.

Jason Redman

You know, it is miraculous in many different ways. I mean, any any direction it went, other than I do joke. You know, if it had gone just one inch to the right, it would have missed me. But, any other direction was pretty catastrophic. I mean, it if it been,

Jason Redman

an inch further inward, it would have taken out my brain if it had been an inch higher, it would have taken out my eye, an inch lower.

Jason Redman

It would have taken off my jaw. So, it took off my nose, which, thankfully, there were some amazingly talented doctors who, help rebuild my nose, but, but, yeah, I, you know, I, like I said, I mean, I just always want to reiterate, I owe my life to the Air Force, to that gunship, fourth S.O.S. Squadron.

Jason Redman

I owe my life to my teammates, my team leader all my life. To the amazing medical team in Baghdad who saved my life and and stabilized me to, to get me home to Bethesda. just a shout out to the military medical system that helped put me back together.

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

That's amazing.

Pat McCalla

you mentioned your book, Jason. And I told you before we turned on the cameras in the mix. I will, I'll read your book for sure. I can't wait to read it. Actually, I love military history. My dad was in the Marine Corps. I had two kids that were in the Marine Corps. So I love military history.

Pat McCalla

I can't wait to read your book. We're going to have you back on in person. in August or September, and we'll really talk through your books at that point.

Pat McCalla

but let's just fast forward a little bit then for those that don't know your story, you end up in a hospital. You end up going through how many like 37 surgeries or something like that.

Jason Redman

Yeah. 40 by the time it was all said and done. So almost 40 surgeries over for four and a half years.

Pat McCalla

lot of stitches, a lot of staples.

Jason Redman

Jason Redman

one titanium orbital floor, which my body rejected. And they had to pull it out. It was, man, I don't even know how many skin grafts, a dozen skin grafts, multiple bone graft cartilage grafts. they they removed tissue and skin and blood vessels from my left thigh to rebuild my nose. They removed, cartilage from my rib and from behind my ear to rebuild my nose.

Jason Redman

They removed my fibula. It's called a fibula. Free flap to rebuild the missing bone in my face. that's actually my skull.

Jason Redman

we we, Yeah, an artist friend of mine, the doctors had to make a 3D acrylic model of the skull that this this hole was actually in the helmet. it wasn't in my. It wasn't in my forehead.

Jason Redman

Thank God. But I did take around right through the front of my helmet, miraculously, that, did not hit me in the head.

Pat McCalla

you keep. You keep using that word miraculously

Pat McCalla

and rightly

Jason Redman

Yeah, yeah.

Jason Redman

Yeah, I was dying. There's no mistake about it. I mean, you, doctors tell me it's a miracle I survived from the amount of blood I lost. when I was laying there on the battlefield. I mean, in this period of time, there was nothing I could do. I just, I, I had to wait.

Jason Redman

I literally bullets were traveling about eight inches over me, so I knew that if I tried to get up and move, I was just going to get shot again. I had to trust my teammates to win that fight, which I did. so my sole job, I realized, was to survive. And I just told myself, stay awake, stay alive, stay awake, stay alive.

Jason Redman

That's what I just kept repeating myself. And there was a point where I felt like I couldn't do it anymore. I, you know, the human body. We learned a lot about trauma medicine and special operations were trained. Probably the level of, EMT. we understand, you know, when you spring a leak, when the human machine springs leak, it can only run so long without optimal fluid levels.

Jason Redman

You know, without so much blood. It's called hypovolemic shock. And I was going through all the signs and symptoms. I knew it, and I finally reached a point where it was getting harder and harder to breathe. I couldn't really move. And, and I just accepted, like, hey, this is how I'm going out. And then I kind of got angry about that.

Jason Redman

Like, I wasn't ready to go. I didn't want to give the enemy the satisfaction of knowing they killed me. and I and I called out to God. I said, hey, I need your power to go home. because I, let me take a step back. I just thought about my wife and kids, and I wanted to see my wife and kids again.

Jason Redman

and and I called out to God and man like this. I had strength and power and I got up, when the when the medevac finally came in, I had no idea what this time frame was. I don't know if that was in the first ten minutes of the gunfight, if it was or not, that I don't know.

Jason Redman

But when the medevac came in and landed, probably 50 to 75 yards from us, and, and I got up with, you know, with the help of my team leader, I said, hey, help me out. And I walked 75 yards and I got on that helicopter under my own power. So I went from not being able to move a muscle to suddenly I had enough energy and power to get on that helicopter.

Jason Redman

So, I think it's a pretty big miracle.

Jason Redman

I can't explain it. I've had a lot of debates with other people. Christians and atheists alike. And, it always sparks interesting conversations. But, you know, I can explain that that night

Jason Redman

I mean, I needed eight blood transfusions

Jason Redman

over a 96 hour period.

Pat McCalla

you said. And that. That's a really, really bad day. What you just described.

Pat McCalla

But

Jason Redman

Yeah.

Jason Redman

Yeah. That's, that's a small part of my story. So it's kind of funny. A lot of people find me online, and they want to learn about me through The Sean Ryan Show. Although on The Sean Ryan Show, we obviously get pretty deep in all aspects of my story. But when people find me, my story is really a story of a young leader who failed and got off track, and that happened several years earlier.

Jason Redman

And, I was, enlisted seal, who became an officer. And usually our Mustangs do a really good job. They they figure it out, man, and they're they're great officers. And, I didn't I kind of got off track, I got arrogant, I got high on my horse, and, kind of lost my way. my first platoon as an officer kind of have an interesting dynamic.

Jason Redman

And I think they purposely put me into that platoon because they were hoping that my prior enlisted experience would help. I had a big personality conflict with me and my chief, and instead of me managing it well, I did not manage it well. And, you know, really kind of stepped all over my toes, started making mistakes and then

Jason Redman

as humans sometimes do, I started self-medicating with way too much alcohol.

Jason Redman

So on top of damaging my credibility as a leader, I was getting known as a drunk. So all these things were coming together to damage my credibility as a leader.

Jason Redman

Jason Redman

So my boss was Eric Christianson, who was killed when the helicopter was shot down on June 28th. We were getting ready to rotate in. That was our sister platoon on the helicopter. I actually first met Markus in Germany. He had been recovered and we went to see him, and the bodies of Mike Murphy and Danny Dietz had just arrived.

Jason Redman

They were still looking for acts. And, and then we rotated in Afghanistan only maybe a day later. Two days later, so got into Afghanistan and several months later made a bad call on a mission. it was, I took myself and a machine gunner down into a valley, to try and get into a gunfight.

Jason Redman

and it was just a bad call, and it placed a lot of people at risk. everything, including myself and my machine gunner. but the biggest thing. And I'm very fortunate that a not a nobody else was killed or injured or you know, we were obviously killed or injured, but what it did in that moment is it was kind of the final nail on my leadership credibility.

Jason Redman

And there were guys that said, hey, kick that guy out, you know, get rid of that guy. He's dangerous. And that began a little bit of a doubt and not even a little bit a major downward spiral for me. you know,

Jason Redman

to become part of the Seal team is a very difficult thing, to earn that trident, to become an officer.

Jason Redman

All very difficult things. I had achieved this incredibly high level of success my whole life.

Jason Redman

and suddenly to fail at this epic level and to be told, you know, we want to kick you out of our community. I hit rock bottom. I literally contemplated suicide. I put a gun in my mouth in Afghanistan and almost took my life.

Jason Redman

once again, I think God intervened and just thankfully kind of shook me and, made me see a picture of my wife and kids on the desk across from me and said, what message are you leaving them if you do this? And, family's always been really important to me. So I think that shook me out of it and made me recognize I need to go get help.

Jason Redman

but it was a really hard road, I know. thankfully, I had some great leaders, who believed in me and were willing to give me a second chance. But there were a lot of people who did not want me to have that second chance. So it was an uphill battle.

Jason Redman

received some punishment.

Jason Redman

There were things, you know, that I had to atone for and to grow up. One of those things that they, sent me to U.S. Army Ranger School. So. It's funny, I'm ranger qualified also, but,

Jason Redman

Yeah, well. And it was good. I will say it was smart of my leadership. They needed to humble me in Ranger School's phenomenal leadership school.

Jason Redman

My hat's off to anybody who's gone through Ranger School and earned that tab. And it was really what I needed. although I didn't know it at the time, I was still kind of bitter and angry about all of it. I had this victim mindset, and, and it was in, in Ranger school that I finally started. And there's a lot more detailed nuances in that story, but that was where I really kind of reminded myself and said, hey, man, you know, you're you want to say you're this great leader, but you're not, you know, and I think all of us in life sometimes have that issue.

Jason Redman

The perception of ourselves is greatly different from the reality of who we are, how others see us. And, you know, we want to try and make sure that that that intersection is pretty pretty much the same. And, and it took a while to figure that out. And when I came back after Ranger school, it wasn't like guys were like, oh, you made it to Ranger School.

Jason Redman

We're so glad to have you back. I'm sure you're squared away now. No, I man, it was virtually every day listening to guys say, we can't wait till you

Jason Redman

up and you're out of here.

Jason Redman

so that is the hardest road I've ever walked in. What's interesting, I try to tell people, I mean, I now speak on this whole idea of getting off the ax and the overcome mindset and how we deal with adversity and the moments becoming new beginning.

Jason Redman

And so when I, when I explain to people is, man, be thankful for the hard times you're going through because the reality is they tie you up for success, for future hard moments, you know, no different than training muscles, no different. An overcome mindset has to be built by doing hard things and by going through hard things. So the interesting thing when I was wounded, fast forward, you know, a few years, I said, hey man, yes, this sucks, but guess what?

Jason Redman

You just walked the hardest path. You climbed out of the darkest hole you've ever been in. This is going to be no different. You're going to apply all these lessons in leadership that you've been applying. You're going to apply them to this. And, so it really didn't change anything. And that's what so many people have asked. How did you do that?

Jason Redman

How did you launch out of your injuries? You know, the sign on the door. And I never looked back. and that's why it's because I have failed at this colossal level. But I didn't let it.

Jason Redman

define me. I let it become a moment to grow and get better.

Pat McCalla

Jason, I am so glad you brought that up. Because I wanted to go to the sign next. But you actually gave all this backstory that really helps us understand the sign. And I'm so glad you brought that up, because this podcast, as you may know, is all about the power and complexity of human choice that as humans, I believe as a person of faith, that we are the pinnacle of God's creation.

Pat McCalla

And but we've been given the power of choice. We get to choose and but but what that means is that we make our choices in a choice, and eventually our choices make us. So you shared a part of your story where you were making some really poor choices in your life, but that you didn't let that define you.

Pat McCalla

You didn't let that be the end of the story. And, you were you rebuilt. And it was a lot of work, a lot of time, a lot of effort on your part. You rebuilt, you came out of that. But that helped you then,

Pat McCalla

with your injury, with this sign. So now tell us the odd that tell the audience about the sign, because that's a fascinating story and how that ended up just taking off.

Pat McCalla

But you didn't know that when you wrote those words. You had no idea where this was going to lead to. You sitting down with the president of the United States.

Host

Hey, we hope you've enjoyed this episode so far. Be sure to like and subscribe to not miss a future podcast. Okay, let's get back to the episode.

Jason Redman

Yeah. It, So the sign came about a few, maybe a week after I was in the hospital. So, And I love the fact we're going to come full circle to your use of the word choice, because it's a word I've always. I've got use all the time, when I speak and when I talk to people about traumatic events or hard events we have in our life.

Jason Redman

But, I won't lie, when I first got the hospital, it was hard. and it was hard to wrap my mind around what had happened. I mean, my face is blown out. I have tubes coming out of what's left of my nose. I'm wired shot. I'm trained. They're feeding me from a stomach tube. I lost so much blood, I couldn't even get out of bed.

Jason Redman

I had to have nurses help me use the bathroom in bed. so, I mean, a week prior, I had been leading, you know, some of the most amazing warriors our country has produced and fighting with them. and, and and and on top of the fact that I had just finished this really hard road of rebuilding my reputation and credibility as both a CEO and a leader, and had been told only a couple weeks prior to this happening, hey man, your career is back on track.

Jason Redman

You are approved. for your next leadership position. And I had even requested and was approved to screen for our next year Seal team, which I was, coming back to the States to do at the end of the month.

Jason Redman

which is a huge deal. You have to have approval from both the commanding officer and from, your teammates have to give you a thumbs up.

Jason Redman

So I've made this huge turnaround only to find myself laying in this hospital bed broken and, mangled and disfigured. And those were all the things that I was really wrestling with.

Jason Redman

Yeah, just trying to wrap my head around as my special operations career over, you know, where do I go from here? And I had some, I had some people, that had come to visit and, they have been in the room talking to me.

Jason Redman

And then, I think they stepped to the side and, like, a nurse came in and was doing some stuff, but they were having a conversation off to themselves and they were talking about, you know, the, how hard the military hospital is. And it is, I mean, if anyone out there has ever been to Bethesda or Walter Reed or, or, Brooke Army Medical Center, where a burn maybe, maybe down in Tampa, the VA poly trauma center.

Jason Redman

Where does devastating injuries, bullets and bombs do? Devastating injuries. And it's very hard to see young men and women that are blown apart and burned and traumatic brain injuries. And they were overwhelmed. And then they started talking about what a shame, what a pity. These young men and women are never going to be the same. They're never going to be able to overcome.

Jason Redman

And and then they left and the nurse left. And, so here I was wrestling with all these things. And then I got, you know, the pity party happening next to me. And, I don't know, it was actually kind of a good moment because it was a it was a decision point in life. I think we all face these decision points.

Jason Redman

I talk about the acts. I was kind of sitting on that ax, and it was a moment where I said, you got to get up, man. You got to get off the ax. That's not you. It doesn't have to be you. The greatest gift you have in this life. You set a path. You have a choice. We have free will.

Jason Redman

No one forces you to lay there and feel sorry for yourself when bad things happen. It is an internal decision whether, okay, this is the hand I've been dealt, what am I going to do with it? And I said in that moment, like, hey bro, look at everything you've been through. you know the formula. You know, you lead yourself, you lead others and lead always get up.

Jason Redman

You know, you be positive. We control what you can. You, you you do the things that you can make a difference now. And, you stay positive and you lift others up. So when my wife came back in the room, I wrote to her, and I just because I couldn't talk everything for me, for the first multiple months, because I was tricked until they capped my trick.

Jason Redman

I can only communicate by writing. And I wrote to my wife, and I said, hey, that's never going to happen again. I said, these people came, man. A lot of pity. I said, from this day forward, I refuse to feel sorry for myself, and I'm not letting anybody else come into this room and feel sorry for me.

Jason Redman

And, and I wrote out that song and, didn't really give it a lot of thought. It was originally written on a white piece of I was just using they gave me like a ream of printer paper, and that's what I would write on, on a clipboard. And it was originally written on that. And then we transcribed it onto the orange piece poster paper a few days later.

Jason Redman

But it's said attention to all who enter here. If you're coming in this room with sadness or sorrow, go elsewhere. The wounds I received, I got a job that I loved doing it for people I love defending the freedom of a country that I deeply love. I will make a full recovery. What is full? That's the absolute most physically I have the ability to recover, and then I'm going to push that about 20% further through sheer mental tenacity.

Jason Redman

This room you're about to enter, a room of fun, optimism and intense, rapid regrowth. If you are not prepared for that, go elsewhere. Now, we, we we signed it, the management and, put it up on the door. Like I said, a few days later, we transcribed it word for word onto the big orange poster. and and what was really cool as a teammate and I don't even remember who it was, I had a revolving door of teammates that came to visit, and one of them took his trident off and tattooed on the bottom of the sign,

Jason Redman

which I got to tell you was a very healing moment for me.

Jason Redman

because to have gone from a period of time where many of my teammates said, hey, we don't want you. You're

Jason Redman

dangerous. We don't want you as part of our community to come full circle and put that that put that Trident on the door was a huge moment for me. So, so yeah, man, I tell people, look, you know, we can't control the bad things that happened to us.

Jason Redman

I mean, life ambushes and bad things are going to happen to good people all the time. And you just unfortunately, you can choose to dwell and be a victim, or you can get off and be a vector and figure out how to drive forward. And that's what that sign represents. And

Jason Redman

that's what I speak on now all over the place.

Pat McCalla

will never arrive right in. In our lifetime. We're never going to do that perfectly as human beings. But

Pat McCalla

it's one of the central points of what it means to be human, that you have a choice. There are, like you said, there's things that are out of our control. But what you can control, you can choose what you do with it.

Pat McCalla

And that's what's so incredible. And again, I want our audience to understand, you know, talk about reasons to have pity. Right. Like we all would get it. We've heard your story now, you could have sat there with pity and even gone like I just got back. I worked so hard. I got to trust my man. I got to trust you.

Pat McCalla

And now

Jason Redman

not. It's not fair.

Jason Redman

Yeah, yeah.

Pat McCalla

to recognize the power of choice that you had there. I want to ask you really quick, though, one of the words that you used in that and that what you wrote that day, I love you used the word tenacity.

Pat McCalla

what does that word mean to you?

Jason Redman

So my word is overcome. And that is tenacity. Resilience. Our ability. It is your ability to lead yourself out of hard, traumatic, painful situations. to overcome, to prevail. You know, that is the epitome of that word. And that is the mindset that I try to speak to people on. And we need more of it. We're losing tenacity in this country right now.

Jason Redman

We are in a I often talk about that. There is a new pandemic.

Jason Redman

Covid wasn't the most dangerous thing we've seen. The new pandemic is the victim mindset that we're creating in people. we are trying to convince everyone out there that they're a victim race, creed, color, gender, gender, persuasion, socio economic. I don't care what whatever your demographic is, where you were born, you're a victim, and there's no way you can ever be successful because of your victimhood.

Jason Redman

And it's just wrong. there are millions and millions, tens of millions of amazingly successful people from all the different victim categories that people would try and place them into who have overcome those incredible odds and created these success, the successful life. And, that's disappointing to me because everywhere I go, I it's all I see. Like, oh, well, yeah, because you're I mean, insert whatever adjective you want because you're black or white or gay or straight or, you know, white male or whatever it is, you know, you're never going to be able to overcome because you're a terrible person or whatever.

Jason Redman

It's just drives me insane. You know, we need to get back to humans.

Jason Redman

and God made us to where you have the ability to to overcome things. I mean, it is hard, and it doesn't always guarantee that what you want is going to happen. I wanted someday command a Seal team. I wanted to maybe someday even make Admiral.

Jason Redman

I wanted to serve at our tier one unit. Those things did not happen. you know, unfortunately, that was just the way my path unfolded. But when I try and explain to people is that oftentimes these moments lead to the most amazing new beginnings. that's what my TEDx talk was about. And,

Jason Redman

I know so many people and I'm sure you can say the same thing, people who have had some amazingly traumatic, hard, life ending, career ending, marriage ending, health ending, whatever it is moment in their life and and and yes, it was

Jason Redman

incredibly hard for them to go through, myself included.

Jason Redman

But they look back on it later and they say, you know what, man? One of the best things that ever happened to me, it set me on a whole new path. It made me grow. It made me have tremendous perspective. It made me to be able to make a new impact in an area that I never even would have contemplated.

Jason Redman

and that's what I try and tell people, man, how failure so many phenixes are born out of, out of failure, despair, trauma, tragedy.

Pat McCalla

Our new.

Pat McCalla

Beginnings. What I hear you saying is our new beginnings aren't always in spite of it, but because of it, the

Jason Redman

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

the hard time. Like sometimes we always we try to frame the story of, like, in spite of this bad thing that happened, you overcame. But what you're saying is it's not in spite of. It's because of

Jason Redman

Yes. And and the paths you chose to drive for.

Pat McCalla

yes, yes.

Pat McCalla

Because you

Jason Redman

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

let me unpack a couple of phrases. You've used them a couple of times. I want to encourage I'm going to do this at the end of our podcast here to, to have you share how people can come and find, you and what you're doing. If they wanted you as a speaker, find your books, your t shirts.

Pat McCalla

I love the shirts that you guys. I'm going to grab a couple of shirts off your website too, but there's a couple of phrases that you've used that I really like. No bad days. It's on the wall behind you as well. What does that.

Pat McCalla

Mean?

Jason Redman

It means if you woke up and you're still alive this morning, it is a gift. And, as as a guy who looked death in the face and thought I wasn't going home. most people in this life have such weak perspective. They're there, and we all have problems. We all have issues. I mean, man, I'm running multiple businesses now.

Jason Redman

obviously not many days go by that we don't have some problem we have to deal with. But I meet so many people that allow these little minor things negatively impact them. And I'm like, I, I nobody's really represents multiple things. Number one, I don't know why I got to come home when so many other guys didn't. so many far better shields than me died on the battlefield, and they didn't get to come home, and their families would give anything to have them back.

Jason Redman

Their their kids and their wives and their moms and their dads. So I think to myself, like, who am I to have a negative attitude and to be an

Jason Redman

or to not, like, try and live the greatest person that I possibly can be? Because what a what a slap in the face to those guys and their memories.

Jason Redman

So I try and live this life, this idea of no bad days. If I woke up, it's a good day. It doesn't mean I won't have hard days or tough days. But guess what? No bad days, man. I'm still alive. I'm thankful for the problems I have because, I'm sure the families of my teammates would give anything to be dealing for them to be back, to be dealing with whatever problem you know you're facing, that you're whining and complaining about.

Pat McCalla

I love that so much for for me personally, one of the things that I've been. Because I'm a little ahead of you and age, I turn 53 this year. And, you know, the further you go in life, right, the less runway you realize you have. And that's assuming we even live told age

Jason Redman

you're not too much. I, all this plastic surgery, I think made me look younger, but. Yeah, I mean, I turn 49 next month.

Pat McCalla

yeah. So I got four years on you, but

Pat McCalla

what I keep trying to remind myself of most every day is yesterday's gone. Tomorrow's not guaranteed. All I have is today. I like what you're saying. I want to add that to that. What I'm going to tell myself each day is yesterday's gone. Tomorrow's not guarantee. All I have is today.

Pat McCalla

So it's going to be a good day. No bad days, I love that. So let me another

Jason Redman

Yeah.

Jason Redman

Yeah. the reason I'm laughing is this shirt is a little more provocative. The many that I have. My wife was like, are you sure you want to put this shirt out there at the back of this shirt? Actually says it's about action. Mother. it's blanked out. You know, you got some emblems, but, the reason being, because it is getting off the ax is about action.

Jason Redman

Because they're they're the ax is the point of attack. It's the point of crisis. It's the sticking point. So many people, as you well know, get stuck in their own minds. I often tell people the most dangerous acts you'll ever find yourself on is that one that lives inside your head, that tells you you're never. It is the victim mindset X.

Jason Redman

It is the one that tells you because of your race, creed, color, gender, gender, persuasion, demographics, socioeconomic status, whatever it is. Failure point that you'll never be able to. You'll never be successful. And if you believe that and sit on that ax, you won't. But action is the answer. It is getting up. It is getting off the ax.

Jason Redman

It is moving forward. It is. It is stumbling and failing and falling and getting up and getting, you know, moving from one X to the next until you start getting momentum. it is a phrase from Special operations, police, I think use it. Also, the ax, you know, is really the ambush point. So I am fortunate to have my teammates in that gunship to help me have gotten off the ax from that gunfight.

Jason Redman

but everybody in life is going to find themselves on the ax.

Jason Redman

I call them life ambushes. These, these catastrophic events that come along that just knock you off your feet, that sometimes we see common, and sometimes they come like a thief in the night.

Jason Redman

and so many people, you know, they become a victims because of what happened.

Jason Redman

And they might have been an actual victim because of an attack, sexual trauma, whatever it is. But once again, you have a choice and you have the ability to drive forward, turn tragedy into purpose. that's really what I did. and I've seen so many people do the same thing. So I try and teach this mindset is overcome mindset, which hand in hand goes with getting off the ax because, the faster you can get off the ax in this life, it really is the key to success.

Jason Redman

the more you sit and dwell on the negativity and the problems and the challenges and, failures and whatever, the longer it's like quicksand and the more it'll pull you down and the harder it takes so much more momentum to try and get yourself and dig yourself out of that hole. It's not too late. Just recognize that it's never too late to get off the ax.

Jason Redman

And I've met amazing people who said, man, I've been stuck on the ax for 20 years and finally made the decision to drive forward.

Pat McCalla

That's why we need your message, man. You keep at this. You keep talking, you keep speaking, you keep writing. Because

Pat McCalla

We can't hear this message enough. And I've seen the same thing that you just said. I've seen people who were not used the same terminology as you. But, but, but in your terminology who've been stuck on the X forever.

Pat McCalla

Maybe in, some kind of addiction in their on 15, 20, 25, 30 years of it. And they one day they realize I have a choice, I can get off of this. And that's why I think it goes to I love what you said to Jason. Action trumps everything. I used to always tell the little organizations that I led.

Pat McCalla

You know, I would talk about that often. Action, Trump. We can talk about things, we can write goals. We can have three year plans, five year plans. But at the end of the day, it's all ink on paper or ideas in the mind. Action trumps everything. And that's your idea of get off the ax right?

Jason Redman

Yeah, 100%. You got to get up and move. It's, in my book. Over com, I teach something called the react methodology. It's a system that you can use in an emergency action system. It works in life. Ambushes. You would actually work in a gunfight if you needed. But the final point, the TS take action. You know, everybody's waiting for the perfect moment.

Jason Redman

So many people make up all these plans, and, we get stuck. We get stuck in our head. We get stuck thinking I need to be perfect. And I'll be honest, there's,

Jason Redman

you. Tell me, Pat. I feel like in the last couple of years, there's this new push out there.

Jason Redman

This this perfection competition that's occurring in social media. Like we're all racing to show how perfect we are. Like, I watch these guys who, like, you know, I never take a day off from work. I never miss a workout. I, I never watch Netflix. You know, I never touch alcohol. I mean, there's so many of these nevers that just shows like, I'm perfect.

Jason Redman

Dude, I am not perfect, man.

Jason Redman

I am a hard worker, man. And but I need mental breaks sometimes. And I, and I try and tell people like, you're setting yourself up for failure if you're trying to hold yourself to this perfect standard. Because what's going to happen is, is you're not going to be able to maintain that.

Jason Redman

You're going to burn out. And when you fall, then you're going to beat yourself up because you aren't meeting this perfect standard that doesn't exist.

Pat McCalla

man. Jason, I so agree with that. I do think there's this race to perfection. I think it's dangerous, just like you're saying. And I think it would be healthier, especially. Is anybody in a leadership role who gets to speak, who's on those platforms, who are a little more transparent and honest and shared, like, I love what you just shared, like, hey, I have I have some days I missed some workouts.

Pat McCalla

I, I mean, that's just part of being human and it's okay,

Jason Redman

Yeah.

Jason Redman

Yeah. No. I tell people, man, at a minimum, maybe 20 if you're going to hit 90, ten if you're killing it.

Pat McCalla

I agree.

Pat McCalla

Well, one one more phrase that I want to just have you unpack from one of your shirts that you have, on your website, you've used the word a bunch overcome, but you actually have a shirt that has this on. It says keep calm and overcome.

Pat McCalla

So

Jason Redman

Yeah.

Jason Redman

You know, we we live in this world that is built on sensationalism. Today, we live in a day of information warfare, and I actually my my, every Monday I put out, a post on, YouTube. I call a Monday Monster, and they're just leadership tips. And today's was all about that, that that we are living in a world where we're trying to race each other and how sensational we can be.

Jason Redman

Our political leaders have embraced this. Social media has embraced it. The media has embraced it. So we're trying to weaponize information to try and make you angry or excited or whatever to jump to a conclusion. And I just that's not good leadership. I think good leaders take a breath and they look at the situation and they try and remain calm as they deal with it and they present, you know, they try and gather as much facts as they can and then present, you know, here's what we need to do, and this is what has happened.

Jason Redman

And they presented in a manner that allows people to drive forward and make decisions and do things without spinning people up into this frenetic state that I think, you know, this world lives in. And all the time,

Jason Redman

I had a I had a great leader, who used to say to me, never make a decision until you have to, which for a lot of people out there, they're like, oh, my God, what are you talking about?

Jason Redman

Your Navy Seals, you guys have to make second decision. Second, you have to be decisive. I hear that a lot. And I'm like, well, true, but how much time do you have to make that decision? If I'm in a gunfight and you, you know, Pat, you and I square off against each other, we're six foot away and you pull a gun on me.

Jason Redman

I literally have milliseconds to make a decision engage you. There's no cover. So in that decision, it's instant. Now, if I push you back a hundred yards and you start shooting at me and there's a large tree, or there's a large building that I can step behind that provides protection. I know I have time to decide what I'm going to do in this situation, and life is no different.

Jason Redman

I mean, it's no one's shooting at you and no one's dying. You actually have a decent amount of time to make decisions and and

Jason Redman

getting caught up in this sense of urgency that most people do. You take a breath, keep calm, lay out that plan. So I think it's a critical thing.

Jason Redman

it's something I had to learn.

Jason Redman

I can be wired tight. So I used to get really caught up and spun up easily. And now I really try and pride myself on taking a breath, gathering information, staying calm and dealing with problems in a regulated manner.

Pat McCalla

yeah.

Pat McCalla

I think that's something I've really learned in life, too. I'm similar to you. I was wired pretty tight when I was younger, and especially through my 40s. I really learned the power and effectiveness of a pause. The one of the best things, one of the most strategic things I can do sometimes is pause. I used to be the first guy that had to jump in conversations and be the loudest guy in the room, and now someone who meets me now, they're like, you're awful quiet a lot of the times.

Pat McCalla

And it's because

Pat McCalla

I'm thinking, I'm processing. It's worth it.

Jason Redman

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

with him.

Pat McCalla

He does combat shooting. And, I'm not at his level or your level for sure. So you would be very safe 100 yards away from me. So let

Jason Redman

Yeah. I would at least have a little bit more time in there. Definitely. Guys who at 100 yards, they're lethal very quickly. So, now what?

Pat McCalla

me just ask this as we kind of wrap this up, and I can't wait to we sit down in person after I read your books here a couple of months from now. but what what was it like for your family, then?

Pat McCalla

We've talked about you. You were married, I think, around seven years when you were shot. And you come back somewhere in there.

Jason Redman

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

your wife of seven years finds out that you've been shot. You have at that time. Do you have two kids? Three kids? What do you have at that time?

Jason Redman

Three. Three kids. So

Jason Redman

my youngest had not turned three yet, so she was two. my older daughter was

Jason Redman

four, and my son was a mere seven.

Pat McCalla

Yeah. So eight, four and two somewhere in there. And they're seeing their dad a lot different than they saw their dad when he left for his

Jason Redman

Yeah.

Jason Redman

was hard. although, you know, the great thing about my first book, the try to. I write all of that in there. the story from because I wanted to highlight, you know, special operations marriages, 90% of the time end in divorce. It's a very hard career, very similar in law enforcement and fire. Military marriages are very hard.

Jason Redman

And there are some wives who, or spouses, I should say, who, understand it, appreciate it. And they're rock stars, man. They're as much warriors as the spouses in the military. And there are others that unfortunately, when it gets hard, they can't handle it. and that that that's just the reality. And my wife was not that she was like this Spartan warrior, amazing wife.

Jason Redman

And, and I wanted to show that. I wanted to show the world that, hey, man, some of us are really blessed, to have these amazing wives. And there were a lot of things that we did. one of the things, we had a really strong marriage. We communicated very well. We always made sure we were on the same page.

Jason Redman

So we're certain certain things that we agreed upon in the beginning, I, I was pretty mangled in the very beginning. I didn't want the kids to see me that way. I wanted some of the swelling to go down. I wanted them to do some of the initial reconstruction to try and make me look a little better, maybe remove.

Jason Redman

I had lots of tubes in the beginning, you know, when I was in ICU. so we we waited. It was at least three weeks, if not almost a month before the kids saw me. And the other thing, I wanted to walk into the room. This was a really big deal for me. I wanted to walk into the room where my kids were.

Jason Redman

I did not want to be in a hospital bed, and I didn't want to be in a wheelchair.

Jason Redman

so that was a goal of mine that I had to work to, to get where I went into the room. so I think some of those things, we were able to keep the kids on their schedule thanks to our family and friends.

Jason Redman

So there were a lot of things that we did that I think helped set our kids up for success. And we've, continued those things.

Jason Redman

fast forward. So my wife and I have now been married for, 23 years. We've been together for almost 25. We defied so many odds. So, so many people have read the book in the same question you have asked, how did you guys do it?

Jason Redman

How did you manage that? So, I'm excited to say that book number four will come out February 25th, and it's called Invincible Marriage. And we wrote a book to try and help other military law enforcement. It'll work for anyone. But really, I wanted to focus on the protect our community that, hey man, you can still be a protector and be mission focused and, you know, do what you were born to do and still be an amazing,

Jason Redman

mom or dad and spouse.

Jason Redman

and then we really laid that out. So I'm excited for that to come out next year.

Pat McCalla

man. I cannot wait for that. And again, that's Jason. Just keep at what you're doing, I love it. It's so important, first responders. I have such a deep part for first responders to. In a lot of friends that are that way. And we know that that marriages in those areas struggle, too. For same reason. Right? It's just it's hard for a spouse sometimes to understand what it's with in that work environment and how you deal with that as a marriage.

Pat McCalla

So I can't wait for that book to come out. And, we're going to promote that one for sure. But you said February of 25.

Jason Redman

Pat McCalla

weren't kidding it. The beginning. you know, when when I asked you those questions, it probably dropped earlier this week or will drop later this week. When I asked you the question about what you liked in school, writing.

Pat McCalla

You

Jason Redman

I do, I am a writer, man. I like to write.

Pat McCalla

one more question, then we're going to jump into two truths in a lie.

Pat McCalla

So one more question, then we're going to jump into two truths in a

Jason Redman

Okay.

Pat McCalla

have you have a quite, quite a team right now that I look at when I look at your website, this, this prolific team, it's it's amazing. but you got this, this one called Winston. That might, might

Jason Redman

So my oldest daughter is the most like me. She is my little mini me. she is a goal setter. She is driven, and, when she sets her mind to something, she'll. She'll get it. So from a young age, she's always loved pigs. We have little stuffed pigs. And so, yeah, she was, 17 and without telling us, ordered this pig and decided it would be much easier to ask for forgiveness.

Jason Redman

Now, understand, my wife is the female Jack Hannah. So my wife has owned all kinds of animals. So I've been dealing with this zoo I live in my whole life, and, Yeah. So apparently my wife found out about this a couple weeks prior and was like, your dad's going to kill you, but tried to butter me up, before Winston showed up.

Jason Redman

And I will say, man, Winston, when he showed up, was his little tiny pig, and, and fairly cute. And we were like, how big is he going to get? No, it'll only be 40 pounds. like, how long the pigs live? 20 years. I was like, let me tell you something, kid. When you leave, this pig's going with you here.

Jason Redman

My pig.

Jason Redman

So, sure enough, which it is now 100 pounds. Oh my God. And he is,

Jason Redman

he is a character. Like, pigs are pretty smart. I mean, they're really smart. She has taught them all kinds of tricks and, but, but, yeah, I still can't wrap my head around the fact that I have a pig in my house.

Jason Redman

I, I I tell her, I mean, I run survival courses and stuff in defense courses several times, and I tell her I'm like, if society ever collapses, I'm eating. Winston, I'm just telling you right now. So it's been a fun thing. It's been a on social media thing. So. Oh my God, man. We be it's so good.

Jason Redman

Brisket and bacon and ham hocks and

Pat McCalla

you know, I, I've seen some of your posts with Winston and, I think you like Winston. You got. There's a little place in your heart for Winston. I see it.

Jason Redman

I don't know I'm just kind of like I don't like him. Like I love my my service dog.

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

No, I know you love your service dog. I've seen those posts as well. Well, hey, let's finish up here with two truths in a lie. So it's an ironic way our audience has heard you for about an hour now. They've gotten to know you a little bit. They've gotten to know your story. So why don't you just give us three statements?

Pat McCalla

Two of them will be truths. One will be a lie. I have to try to guess the lie.

Jason Redman

Okay.

Jason Redman

Pat McCalla

Okay. those are good ones. All right. What was the the how much you said 10 million.

Jason Redman

Yeah, $10 million high rise in Raleigh.

Pat McCalla

I'm going to go with the middle one being true because I think as much as you. Right. You've got to be working on some kind of, script or something.

Pat McCalla

So I'm going to

Jason Redman

You are correct. It is true. Although it doesn't have to do with script. I did some acting,

Pat McCalla

Did you really?

Jason Redman

Yeah, I was in Hawaii five zero, and I starred in a small budget film called The Perfect Day.

Pat McCalla

Okay.

Pat McCalla

All right. Hey, I got to go. Which which episode of Hawaii Five-O.

Jason Redman

I think it's season eight episode. It's the last episode of season eight. It's like this Christmas episode that they had multiple veterans, and most of us were actual veterans who were in the show, and we help for the crime.

Jason Redman

it was fun.

Jason Redman

Yeah,

Jason Redman

it was awesome. I wish I could do more acting. the biggest thing is time. And, but it was a lot of fun. I enjoyed it.

Pat McCalla

out of curiosity, you ever thought about turning your story into a movie?

Jason Redman

We are working on it. I mean, we'd love to. We're trying to.

Jason Redman

the biggest challenge we have with the. It is, I've been told it's complicated.

Jason Redman

you know, to follow that path of failure and redemption and all these different things that are part of the Hollywood, like, simple.

Jason Redman

So I've had several people look at it and they just said, it's it's it's, it's a difficult book to try and condense and make it simple.

Jason Redman

so, yeah. And a lot of, Yeah. So we'll see.

Jason Redman

am trying hey, if anybody's watching this, we would love to, you know, either a movie or. Now, the great thing is Netflix with the series and that when you have something complicated, it's much easier to do a longer series. So that's an option to.

Pat McCalla

like to do those, like six part series or eight part series or something. Man I

Jason Redman

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Pat McCalla

I'm going to go with the truth being you own the $10 million high rise.

Jason Redman

Don't. No.

Jason Redman

I did just fine on the first commercial building, but, it was not 10 million. And it is here, and, it is in Virginia. Not probably

Pat McCalla

Okay. All right, you got me.

Pat McCalla

I got to let you know I was on a run with gas. I was,

Jason Redman

Yeah.

Jason Redman

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Okay.

Jason Redman

and I have no clue that it didn't mean anything back then.

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Well. Hey, Jason, I just want to say thank you so much. we honor you. thank you for your service.

Pat McCalla

can't thank the our veterans, our first responders enough for

Pat McCalla

your role in in our society. So just appreciate it and especially your message. Again, I want to really encourage our audience to go, where would they find you?

Pat McCalla

How do they get connected to you? And we'll put it in the description as well.

Jason Redman

Yeah. Jason Redfin.com. I mean, if they go there on the website, down in the bottom, all my socials. I'm most active on Instagram. and and, although I am fortunate, like you said, to have a great team that helps me run everything. I get so many messages. But if you send me a message and, my team flags them and says, hey, you know, Papa Carla wrote you and said he's interested in getting you on the Gray Areas podcast, and we're no gray areas.

Jason Redman

And I would, you know, they they pass them along to me. So

Jason Redman

I am, directly involved. So, you know, I, I do see most of the stuff that comes across, but yeah, I'm on all the socials. I have a YouTube channel, I try and post, a couple of videos a week on leadership, and I do some defensive training.

Jason Redman

You know, I believe strongly in the Second Amendment and that, you know, hey,

Jason Redman

God, God forbid the worst happens, but you should be able to you should be able to get off your own ass.

Pat McCalla

Yep yep. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

There's a reason our founding fathers wrote that in, the same reason they wrote the First Amendment. Third of all of us, there's there's a reason.

Jason Redman

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Jason. Thank you so much. I can't wait to sit down with you in person in August or September. When you're here in the Phenix area. I'm going to go grab both your books that you have and a couple of t shirts off your website.

Pat McCalla

Appreciate you, my friend.

Host

Thank you for tuning in to this episode on this No Gray Areas podcast with our incredible guest, Jason Redmond. We hope you found inspiration and motivation in his story of resilience. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to like, subscribe and follow us on your favorite podcast platform to stay updated on future episodes. See you next time!