In this episode, we talk with the CAA’s policy lead on our project on cost sharing, we hear an update from Ed Bellamy on the Safety Sense Leaflet project and our latest published documents including Piston Engine Icing.

We also talk with Justin Willcocks on good flight planning preparation along with references to advice and guidance and how to use the radio.

Updates and resources mentioned in this episode:

• Cost sharing flights | Civil Aviation Authority (caa.co.uk)
• Safety Sense Leaflets | Civil Aviation Authority (caa.co.uk)
• SSL: Aerodrome sense
• Clued Up: Unstable Approaches
• Clued Up: Rejected Take Offs
• Trim runaways
• Take off decisions - go or no go? - CAA Safety files
• CAP1950 GA Landing Issues
• Arrivals, departures and RT — Astral Aviation Consulting 
• SSL; Distraction and Interruption
• SSL: Care of Passengers
• Take-off - Loss of Control — Astral Aviation Consulting
• Landings - Loss of Control — Astral Aviation Consulting
• Stalling - Loss of Control — Astral Aviation Consulting
• Spinning - Loss of Control — Astral Aviation Consulting
• Wheel spats - Loss of Control — Astral Aviation Consulting
• Loss of Control — Astral Aviation Consulting 
• SSL; Radiotelephony
• GA Podcast: Talking Radiotelephony
• Radiotelephony — AstralAviation Consulting

Access the latest updates with our SkyWise notification service.

If you have any feedback or suggestions for areas that you’d like us to cover in this podcast, please get in touch at gapodcast@caa.co.uk.

Voiceover 0:11

Welcome to the General Aviation podcast from the UK Civil Aviation Authority.

Alex Blomley 0:22

Hello, and welcome to another episode of our general aviation podcast. My name is Alex Blomley, and I will be your host for this session. We're covering a number of different topics today, including the latest on our summer safety campaign and safety sense leaflets series. But first, we're going to bring you an update on a very significant project that we in the GA unit are working on. And this is cost sharing. You may remember we ran a consultation back in November '21. On our proposed approach to changing cost sharing regulation. And to talk more about this project and what has happened since that constitution. We're joined by Melissa Brady. Hello, Melissa. And thank you for taking the time to talk with us today.

Melissa Brady 1:01

Thanks, Alex. Thank you for having me.

Alex Blomley 1:03

So Melissa, can I ask you to just to take a minute to introduce yourself and your role at the CAA? And the part that you've been playing as part of this cost sharing project?

Melissa Brady 1:12

Yeah, sure. So I have been with the CAA on and off for the last 12 years, and I've been in the GA unit for the last three years working as a licencing and policy officer. I am the policy lead for the cost sharing project, which is part of a wider CAA internal working group, who have been reviewing the current cost sharing regulations over the last couple of years.

Alex Blomley 1:33

Now, we mentioned the consultation that we ran at the CAA back in November '21. But I wondered if you could remind us all of how this proposed revision of the cost sharing regulations came about? Yeah, so the cost

Melissa Brady 1:47

sharing rules have existed in UK law since at least two thousand. EASA later introduced a greater relaxation of these roles. One example being the ability to advertise flights which was previously not permitted under the air navigation order. So as a safety regulator, our primary obligation is to ensure the safety of consumers and other members of the public by reviewing regulation to determine whether it's still fit for purpose in protecting the public. So after a thorough review in '21, our internal working group decided that there could be some strengthening of the cost sharing regulations in order to minimise the potential for both misunderstanding of the rules and potential abuse. So we drew up a series of proposals for amending the current regulations, which we hope to improve protections in place for both pilots and passengers of cost sharing flights. And then we presented them in the consultation.

Alex Blomley 2:41

Right, so we ran the consultation, and we had quite a few responses. I seem to remember, it was one of the most well supported consultations that we ran at that time.

Melissa Brady 2:52

Alex Blomley 4:04

So you rose to really interesting points, and Melissa, which I think is probably something that we should quickly mention. And that is the number of responses to this. It must be one of the highest numbers that we've received for a topic like this. But I think as you said, it's great to get the opinions and wide opinions of the GA community. But I imagine quite a big task to then go through all of those comments and questions to try and make sense and gather them all, all up and fairly reflect those within the Constitution response document.

Melissa Brady 4:37

Yes, it was it did take quite a few weeks to go through everything. We wanted to make sure that we did read every single comment. I believe there were in addition to the over one thousand responses to our questions, we have seven hundred and seventy three additional comments to read and go through. So that's why we thought it'd be easier to group those into the main themes. So that would make it easier for us to respond. It took a while,

Alex Blomley 5:01

you mentioned that you put forward a proposal that, then following the consultation and the views expressed from the community, the team then decided not to proceed with it. And I think that's a really, really important message here. So for those of you listening consultations are a worthwhile exercise, we do appreciate that they take a long time. And we do face criticisms from stakeholders when we go to events or present at different things as the number one sort of feedback point is that they would like things to be done much more quickly, which we do understand. And we do work very hard to try and fulfil those expectations. But I think the point of the consultation is obviously to have wide scrutiny on our ideas and our proposals. And that's what's happened here. And one concept was not proceeded with. And I think that's a really good thing to just sort of share a minute because it demonstrates that it is worthwhile engaging with consultations when we run them. And we do listen, and we do take your comments on board.

Melissa Brady 6:01

Yeah, exactly. And even from the consultation responses, I think there was a couple of different things which were kind of proposed by the community, which we also took on board. And so yeah, it was definitely worthwhile. And thank you again for your responses.

Alex Blomley 6:15

So what has been happening then over the last few months since that response document was published?

Melissa Brady 6:21

So over the last few months, the working group has been engaging with some stakeholders on the proposed changes. So one change in particular, which we've reviewed in great detail is the tightening of the ability to advertise, which was one of our common themes that came out of the consultation. So I think it's important to point out here that we are not removing the ability for pilots to advertise a cost sharing flight, we are just trying to ensure that the rules are not being abused. So we're seeking to restrict the activity of pilots who only plan flights for the purpose of advertising them to a wider public audience. So we believe the spirit of the original cost sharing rules was to allow pilots to share the costs of flights they were already planning to undertake with friends and family. We don't consider activities such as posting multiple flights on consecutive days with the clear intention to provide a service to the public to be in keeping with the original intent of the cost sharing rules. I'd also like to point out that the use of online flight sharing platforms will remain legal, and pilots will be able to advertise a flight that they intend to take in order to seek out any passengers who would like to join and share the costs. We've also been working with the Department for Transport to develop the legislative changes required. So that work includes submitting our recommendation and any changes to the department in the form of an opinion and instruction document. And we're also currently drafting an impact assessment which will assess any impacts that these changes may have.

Alex Blomley 7:54

So what will happen next, you mentioned talking to the pump for transport. So is there a timeframe for this? Or is it too early to say?

Melissa Brady 8:03

So we're currently finalising our recommendations to the DFT there will be ongoing work between ourselves and the department over the next year or so in order to make the changes. We are currently aiming for the changes to take effect in autumn '24. But I would just like to say and make clear that until these changes are made in law, the current provisions will remain valid, and therefore there's no immediate action for the community to take.

Alex Blomley 8:29

I think that's a really interesting point, actually. Because obviously, we get very caught up in proposed policy changes and potential revises to legislation and CAP documents and things. But of course, it is important to stress that until anything actually is legally changed. And a piece of legislation is formally updated, or the ANO for example, thei air navigation order that everything stays as it is. Thank you, Melissa, that was really helpful and very timely update, we will include a link to our page on cost sharing in the podcast notes. And here you can read the full consultation response document as well as a general update on where we are with this project. And if you'd like to make sure you don't miss any regulatory updates from us on using events. And please do register with Sky wise, it's free. And I've included a link to that in the notes as well.

Voiceover 9:23

You're listening to the general aviation podcast from the UK Civil Aviation Authority.

Alex Blomley 9:30

We are now going to have a chat with Ed Bellamy. We had a chat with Ed last year on the work he was doing on our suite of Satan's leaflets. Hello, Ed. Welcome. And thank you for joining us today. Thanks, Alex. It's always a pleasure. So we've have 12 new and revised updated safety sense leaflets published on our general aviation web pages of the CAA website. How is that project going?

Ed Bellamy 9:54

It's going well, we've been going for two years on this now, with care of passengers being the first one that came out in July '21. And since then we've had a good mixture of new and revised titles. As always, I tend to underestimate how long each one is going to take. You know, often the revised initial copy can be bashed out in like a week or so. But we then spent ages refining it and working on the graphics, etc. And whilst we have become more familiar with using the new design template, you know, each one has different requirements. So there is kind of a sense of starting from scratch each time. And the kind of level of ambition in terms of the presentation and the level of technical detail has kind of steadily grown as we've been doing this, which tends to kind of make them a bit longer to produce, but it's worth it in the end. And certainly some of the more recent ones, for example, cockpit distraction, have been really interesting to work on. We use a lot of case studies from AAIB reports, and MoRs. And this actually really made me think about the subject in terms of my own flying, and how to make it more resilient in that regard. And also, for example, how lessons from commercial air transport can often apply to GA scenarios, say the same about radio telephony procedures, aerobatics, again, two more recent ones, they certainly improve my knowledge of the respective subjects by having to, you know, research and go into them in more detail, and I hope people find them useful. I mean, I should stress that, of course, many of the original Safety Sense leaflets that were written 10-15 even longer ago, years, we're, you know, excellent in their content, much of which was is still valid today, even if the format, you know, perhaps looks a bit dated now. And you know, some of the references to specific regulations have long changed, but overall, the projects project is going well, I

think. So when we last chatted, I think you were saying that there were 26 leaflets or so to update. Is that still the aim? Are you still trying to get to that target?

Broadly, yes, but we aren't committed to a specific number. Originally, I had thought that we might cut the overall number down a bit and consolidate more of the titles. But actually, what's transpired in practice is that sometimes keeping them shorter and more focused, I think helps, albeit there'll be some key future ones, which probably will be a bit more longer and detailed. But people also keep thinking of new titles, both internally and also suggestions from external stakeholders. So as I think I probably said, the last time we spoke, there is a sense in which this endeavour is open ended. And there will always be space for people to think of new ones or revise existing ones.

We get a lot of really good feedback on the safety sense leaflets, they do seem to be a really valuable platform to share specific safety topics or topics that are particularly poignant for GA. I mean, the most recent published safety sense leaflet on piston engine icing is one. And I know that topic is obviously very important for all that fly in GA aircraft because the nature of the risk and what can happen, but it's a really valuable method of getting those messages out.

Yes, indeed. So I mean, just on piston engine icing specifically, whilst the title is piston engine icing, obviously, the focus is largely on carburretor icing in particular, since carburretors are still by far the most common way of delivering the fuel air mixture to GA engines. And whilst most of those are incredibly reliable, by their nature, carb icing will always be a risk. Now this is hopefully a subject tht is well familiar to most GA pilots. And you know, we were building on a leaflet that was already very good. In the new leaflet, there is perhaps a bit more focus on following the procedures in the aircraft flight manual for your particular airframe. As well as providing some more general best practice organised by phase of flight. Readers will probably recognise the long standing carb icing risk graphic that gives you your temperature versus humidity data. And you know, this has been used in many different publications Skyway code, winter flying probably individual articles all over the place as well so much of it is the same as before. But we also wanted to focus a bit more on the quality of the graphics in the new leaflet so that pilots can better understand what's actually happening inside the car when icing forms. So we spent a certain amount of time on on that working with our design agency partner. You know, I appreciate not everyone is interested in perhaps the level of detail that we've provided but I know many GA pilots are quite technically minded and certainly I've enjoyed producing it the illustrations that are perhaps a bit closer to reality than what most instructors can draw on a whiteboard. But it's not just about carb icing For example, we also look a bit more a fuel icing and intake icing or impact icing at is is sometimes known . And whilst the subjects are perhaps more applicable to the IFR market, it is still good for more GA pilots to have an understanding of these issues, particularly on the fuel icing side of things. And also the other thing I'd say is that the timing of the publication was partly deliberate. Because in Northern Europe, particularly during periods of wetter weather, carb icing can be a risk at all times of the year. So by publishing in June, I think acted as a reminder that it's not so much just a winter subject.

Yes, that's a good point. Because I think there are a few topics whereby it's easy to become a bit seasonal, you know, we can focus on different potential risks at different times of year, but actually, to your point, you know, certain things and catch you out a bit like, like weather, you know, weather can change. Sometimes you don't always need to have a seasonality trend. But you should always be vigilant at all times when flying, and incorporate these items within your planning.

One thing I'm quite keen to do, as I think I possibly mentioned last time is have a bit more of a human factors kind of thread running through all of the leaflets. For example, when we did the VFR moving maps leaflet earlier in the year, the focus was very much on the kind of common risks and issues at the CAA see through MOR data and other community feedback, you know, rather than dwelling too much on the technicalities of the technology. So to that end, we would like to do a more general human factors and decision making leaflet at some point that might be partly based on the content that's in two og the current ones that are out there still very good leaflets, I think there's pilots, it's your decision. And also another was like a good airmanship guide is the other one, which again, points out some kind of key risk areas for GA flying. And whilst they're both very good leaflets, I want to just repackage and update language a bit and kind of draw this kind of subject together and also particularly focus on the decision making piece. We're also looking currently at the moment at doing one on occurrence reporting, which I think is quite an important thing to raise the profile of within the GA community talking about just culture and all that good stuff. We're also looking at one on the risk of VFR into IMC. So there's been a number of instances in the not too recent past that kind of speak to that subject. And it's not one that we specifically look at at the moment in the Safety Sense leaflets or be it it's a subject that will be well known to many stakeholders. So there's plenty more in the pipeline. There is also an update to the Skyway code going on at the moment. And I'm always conscious of the kind of relationship between the two sets of publications. I mean, now that we have the Skyway code, there are some SSL topics, for example, perhaps controlled airspace operations that probably can fall by the wayside because, you know, the code covers them. And I'm conscious of not having too much of an overlap between the two, albeit there's a kind of optimum level that allows the two to complement each other.

Thank you Ed. That was great. And we look forward to seeing version four of the Skyway code very soon.

Stay up to date with skywise from the CAA by visiting skywise.caa.co.uk.

So, the summer of '23 Flying season is well underway. However, we have seen a few trends over the past few months a couple of safety concerns that we have, as some of you may have seen a few sky wises that we sent out on some of these topics. So we've shared some helpful guidance and useful tips on runway excursions and loss of control. We have more planned over the next few weeks. But to try and bring some of this to life. We've invited Justin Willcocks to have a chat with us about this. Hello, Justin. How are you? Hello. Hi, I'm fine. Great. Nice to have you. So Justin, it'd be great if you could just quickly introduce yourself and some of the work that you do in the GA team please.

Certainly so my name is Justin Willcocks. I'm a flight standards officer and a GA policy specialist. primary role is to oversee an audit organisation so ATOs and DTOs approved and declared training organisations. I support all the associations from LAA, the BGA and the BMAA. Also on the policy side of things. I'm working closely with my colleague Laurence Baxter on the licencing Standards and Training review the certification review. I'm a pilot and a flying instructor myself. I'm not instructing at the moment, and I fly currently from Rochester.

So some of the topics we're highlighting this summer are not necessarily new things. I mean, loss of control, for example, is something we regularly talk about, but there are steps pilots could be thinking about when they're trying to get ahead to avoid a loss of control situation.

So it depends, loss of control on the ground, I think so, in terms of when we're doing a departure when we're doing a takeoff, or we end up with a runway excursion, or we could end up with a ground loop something along those lines. It's about planning for the departure. One of the important things is to plan the kind of scenarios that might happen. And you could do that as part of your pre departure brief to yourself. And I do it when I when I'm sat in the cockpit and I've done my pre takeoff checks, I'll go through a departure brief what will be the departure that I'm going to do which runway I'm departing from, it's a VFR IFR departure, whatever it be, and what the crosswind is today, where I'm expecting the aircraft to be airborne, by any sign not, I will close the throttle and bring the aircraft to a halt and reject the takeoff. And then you brief yourself. Okay, so if the crosswind if it's gusty, or where the wind is going to be coming from, in terms of the runway heading, and all part and parcel of that then builds the picture for yourself. So that you, you're almost kind of forewarned as to the scenarios that you might end up with. And also, then you can take it a little bit further with your departure brief to yourself is, is if there is an engine failure after takeoff, or if there is a bird strike or, or something that's unusual, what will your actions be after that. And so there, you're kind of almost pre warning yourself. And that does really, really help. So as part of my departure brief, it will be things like, I will check the temperatures and pressures, I'll check that I'm getting full power from the aircraft, I'll check that, you know, what's the speed I'm looking to rotate at and climb the aircraft at with the first stage of flat maybe in and then where we, I would expect the aircraft, you know, 1/3, two thirds down the runway halfway down the runway world, I expect the aircraft to be airborne by. So those are the kinds of things I would do as part of my pre departure brief. And that really does help set the scene for you, especially with lost control on the ground. I think with loss of control in the air. Again, it's all about staying in control of the aircraft, it's all about maintaining that, you know, there's an old phrase aviate navigate, communicate, which is what a pilot should do things and flying the aeroplane, first is the key bit. So if you end up in a scenario, we have like an engine failure, and then you're doing a forced landing, maintaining control of that aircraft at all times, is very, very important, because you don't want to start stalling the aircraft while you're trying to select a field for an engine failure. So those are the key bits.

We have pulled together various guidance and educational items into the podcast notes on all the items that Justin and I are covering today. So for example, for takeoff decision making, we have a really good podcast, and supportive Clued Up article. And we also have some other elements to support loss of control, for example, stalling spinning, that sort of thing.

Yeah, I mean, astral aviation have done a really good piece on loss of control on the ground, and the scenarios that they've gone through, it really does break it down into nice, simple, easy sections. And so you know, that will help the pilot with the pre planning, it always comes back to the planning, it comes back to making certain you've got those elements in your mind. What am I going to do with this situation? What am I going to do in this situation. And I think, certainly with the piece Astral have done on lost control on the ground, that's a very good thing for everybody to have a good look at.

And something else I just wanted to touch on with you is the use of the radio. We know pilots are a bit weary a bit cautious of using the radio and we have produced a lot of supporting materials on this. Of course, there was the recent safety sense leaflet on radio telephony, astral aviation have done a workshop on this area. And we've also produced a podcast specifically on the use of RT to looking at the experience of the air traffic controller, and the interface between ATC and GA pilots in general, and why it's important for the pilots to be comfortable with using the radio. Sadly, we have seen a few recent AAIB reports that the use of the radio or really I should say the lack of use of the radio or indeed lack of practice and experience of using the radio has sadly been a major factor in some very sad cases that we've seen. And I guess it's probably a bit of a mix of things in terms of being confident to use the radio, as well as practising and coordinating and incorporating its use as part of your planning.

Yeah, I mean RT is a challenge for student pilots. There's no doubt in that. One of the difficult bits along with threats and error management and airmanship and command to decision making, that students can sometimes struggle with because you can be talking to an air ground unit flight information service, or you could be talking to, you know, full air traffic surface. And in that respect, there are different expectations on you. And air traffic don't know the pilot that's calling them up what their experience levels are the confidence levels, and so on. I think with again, having in your mind, what am I going to say before you press transmit on the aircraft, or what is the likely response I'm going to get is the best way to do it. And it sounds funny, when I drive to the airfield. Before I go flying, I quite often run through my head with the route I'm going to go on this particular day, I'm going to leave Rochester and I'm getting transit Southend zone and go up to the East of England. And I went through my head as I was driving a lot what the radio calls I'm likely to get from southend we're going to be what would be the request from them, and what would be my response. And so in my mind, I was always I kind of start going through the kinds of scenarios I was going to get, I think the real challenge can get is obviously certainly in the SouthEast of England and other parts of the UK, you have very busy airspace where you're talking to especially lower airspace radar services, gets very, very busy. And you're trying to find your gap to make your call and stuff like that. And just be patient. And just keep an idea of what you want to say in your mind. Don't panic, don't rush, but have a clear idea in your mind what you want to say to the controller, and what the likely request is going to be in your mind again, and or have notes, you want to have notes. And that will also really help. One of the difficult bits obviously is if you're in a challenging environment, like some of the incidences that you refer to. And then you're really looking for help from the air traffic controller. And then it's, I think it's important to be as honest as you possibly can about your capabilities. Can you fly in cloud, can you take the clearance to air traffic have given you even though that's going to put you in a position where you could be not within VMC minima, or you might find yourself over a built up area at a certain height? So you have to be honest with air traffic, you have to say as pilot in command, I can't take what you've offered me, I've got to do something else. And this is the reason why what my capabilities are in terms of the aircraft might not have the avionics fit allows you to track a vor that they've asked you to do, you may not be transponder equipped. So I think that honesty is very, very important. Certainly, when I've been instructing, and I found students find the diversion piece when they were asked to maintain clear of controlled airspace, and they've then had to set up a diversion. And they then had to bring in the RT, their capacity, their ability to cope with all the different requests gets more and more. And of course, there are some really useful tools that we can use for navigation now. There are flight planning applications, tablet based flight planning applications that can help no doubt in and shed the load on the pilot to enable them to make a diversion easily. And then that then gives you a bit more capacity to then make those necessary radio calls. But again, it comes back to fly the aeroplane navigate and then tell people what you are doing. And that's the important thing. And again, we're threatened error management in mind, what you've got to do is you've got to think to yourself, so you know, one of the likely errors here will likely threats that are going to come to me. So therefore you can fly the aeroplane, maintain the height and the head in that you need and maintain the speed that you want, then adopt a diversion that you you know you've needed to do and then tell air traffic, what your plans are, if you've been asked to maintain clear controlled airspace. So I think honesty is another important point RT as well. So some

of the things that you've talked about there, you know, honesty, being upfront with the air traffic controller that you'll be talking to on the radio. And as you say, as pilot in command, you need to be clear about what you're comfortable doing and also perhaps what you're not comfortable doing. And this is something that was discussed in the radio telephony podcast. I have included the link to that in the notes and I think it's a really good listen for everybody. The feedback that we've seen from that podcast was really interesting with a real appreciation of people having to feel a bit more comfortable and appreciating that as you say honesty is the best policy much better to be up front and also an appreciation of at times the very heavy workload that ATC can be experiencing and that, you know, you're not being ignored as a pilot as a GA pilot, they do know you're there, they are happy to get in touch with you and help you but that sometimes it's about keeping perspective in terms of the fact that there may be a lot of other traffic that you're not aware of, and perhaps other things that they're having to do, but that they're not ignoring you or not wanting to help you. But it's keeping that bigger picture view, we can sometimes sort of forget when it's just the pilot in a cockpit on their own, getting on with their planned route and flight.

Definitely, definitely, I mean, one of the things that can frustrate pilots, as you asked for a service and you are told, you know, due to control a workload, I'm not able to offer you a transit or a few basic service or whatever the services you've asked for. And yet you think to yourself, don't sound busy, but you have no idea what other things the controller is doing at that moment. So yeah, you have to accept, there are occasions where they can't offer you the service that you've requested, and just have to move on. I say the word service and I think that's important, it is an air traffic service. And so they will offer it to you if they possibly can, you know, and that's my experience certainly flying through quite busy airspace down in South Gatwick, South End. And Farnborough always been very accommodating, always very helpful. And where they've been able to, they've allowed me to transit without too much difficulties. And I've had to slightly adapt my plan, the route I wanted to go just to accommodate them. So I've not had any problems. And I think another thing, certainly with RT, in my experience is when you're flying with passengers, you have to be very clear to them, there are occasions you're going to be talking to air traffic, and you would like them not to talk because they can be a real distraction. Sometimes, you're putting together in your mind, what I'm going to say to the flight information service, air traffic control, or whatever it be, and you've got in your mind, and then you've got the distraction of your passengers asking questions about Oh, what's this, what's that water over there, and so on, that can really make you forget, in a way the message you're going to give to air traffic and what the response is. So again, making it very clear to passengers, there are going to be occasions where I'm going to ask you to keep quiet, please, while I'm talking to air traffic, and I need to keep in my mind what I need to say to them, what they're going to ask for information back from me, and then what my response to that will be. And my workload might increase at that moment. So you know, on those occasions, you know, keep the disruption to a minimum, please. And I think again, it's all about, you know, looking after your passengers, yes, looking after their needs, yes, a little bit, but you are still piling command to that aeroplane.

Regards passengers, as you say, you know, yes, they can be a distraction. And they may not always appreciate when there are busy or less busy periods, when it's a good time to talk with the pilot, that sort of thing. And if you're going out with some passengers, including a briefing to them on what to expect and how to conduct themselves and, and include them as part of that planning process right at the beginning, before you even get to the aircraft.

Yes, definitely. And there's a couple of safety sense leaflets we've published, we've done one on care of passengers distraction, and interruptions, and also the RT one, and they are really, really good safety sense leaflets. And it's really quite interactive, really quite achievable, I think, for every GA pilot to read, to understand, to take something from it to take those techniques that have been proven because these have been written by pilots for pilots. And there are some real good techniques in some of those. And so when the pilot is doing their planning, when they're doing the thoughts about what are the challenges, threats, to my flying today for this flight from here to there, is you know, I've got two passengers with me or I've got someone who's a nervous passenger. So where are my errors going to be likely with that as well. So what are the things what are the pitfalls are going to catch me out? That's really good techniques in those Safety Sense leaflets to help pilots.

And as I have mentioned, we will include all of the links, to the various documents we've mentioned today within the podcast notes, so please do have read through and brush up on any areas of interest that you have. And as you come down to our chat today, Justin, is there anything you would just like to share?

So the only one I thing You did mention was loss of control with spin it and spin is an unusual one because it used to be part of the PPR syllabus way back. It was taken out because there were more actual incidents in training than there were actual incidents of spinning. So we do stall spin avoidance and awareness now, as part of the train. There's a key element around that which is around startle and surprise. And that comes in with Upset Recovery prevention recovery. Training as well. And it's this startle and surprise that quite often catches pilots. The analogy I've been given is the cold water gasp when someone jumps into, you know fresh waters, you have that initial. And it's the same with startle and surprise for a pilot. And they find themselves in an unusual attitude they find themselves in a loss of control situation with low airspeed, high angle of attack in the aircraft stalls and can enter a spin. And it's that reaction that can take a long time for them to get out of. And it's that bit that causes quite often a lot of the issues is Oh my God, what's happened, it takes 10, 15, maybe 20 seconds for you to catch up with where the aircraft is. So it's how you manage that as part of your planning as best you possibly can. The key bit is staying in control of the aeroplane maintaining aeroplanes, attitude, speed, power, everything to maintain the aircraft flying straight and level. And then once you've got the capacity to do the other things do the other things. And that is quite an important thing. And it's quite noticeable when I was instructing when you do your first stalling exercise, which students you do as gently as possible, because the later stalling exercises quite often can surprise the student. And I've also spoken with students as well just so they've experienced it, they are actually quite startled by how quickly the aircraft can depart from controlled flight into a spin condition. But that being said, you know, if somebody wants to move on and do aerobatic training, and flying aerobatics is a lot of fun. I strongly urge anyone who wants to do that to go and do training before they even start looking at it. There is an aerobatic rating for certain licences. And there is the AOPA syllabus and there's the British aerobatic Academy syllabuses. So there's plenty of training out there for people that want to experience, you know, the edges of the envelope, and try different things. And I don't think it's a bad thing, actually, I think it's quite a good thing, because it helps with building that resilience. If you do end up, you get yourself into a position where you potential loss of control, you've got something to fall back on some experience to fall back on. So that would be the other thing I would say is is that pre plan, plan what you're going to do for your departure, think about what could go wrong, and how you will handle it. Your own route elements, your own route phases. Again, you're constantly thinking about the next conversation with air traffic, your next waypoint. Have I done a check of the aircraft systems recently, have I checked my heading with my compass and stuff like that? And then when you get into the circuit, again, just take a moment to visualise where the circuit is, is it standard overhead join? Is it a specific join because of noise sensitive areas, have I lined up on the correct runway if I got orientation, correct, and then you pre land in checks, don't cut those out, don't rush through them make certain you go through those pre landing checks. And that's again, where interruptions can come into it. And then stable approach, maintain a stable speed, height and your aspect on the runway, it makes certain that you've kept that nice and stable. And of course, there might be obstacles on approach. If you're going into a shorter strip into an unlicensed airfield. If you're going into a licence airfield, there shouldn't be too many obstacles. But if you're going into an unlicensed airfield, there may be obstacles. There may be equipment in the undershoot there may be trees and and other items that will cause turbulence and things. So having an idea in your mind as to what the airfield looks like you're going into what the options are. Should you have an unstable approach? Am I able to go around? Am I able to come back round again or try again, to land in there? Having that as a pre plan in your mind is really, really good. So those are the thoughts I would leave with.

Thank you, Justin, and thank you to both Ed Bellamy and Melissa Brady, for taking the time to be part of our latest GA podcast. Please do refer to the podcast notes for all the documents guidance and safety materials that we've talked about today. If you have any comments, questions or suggestions of topics you would like us to cover then do please feel free to get in touch with me and the team on GApodcast@caa.co.uk . We do really appreciate your feedback. And it's really nice to be able to kind of understand your areas of interest or concern things that you might like us to explore as part of the podcast. So thank you so much for listening. And we will speak to you all again soon.

Thanks for listening. This is the CAA General Aviation podcast