If you’ve ever been told that painful periods are just something you have to put up with, or you’ve found yourself spiralling down a Google rabbit hole trying to work out how endometriosis might affect your chances of falling pregnant… this one’s for you.

In this episode of The Science of Motherhood, Dr Renee White sits down with Dr Kokum Jayasinghe, a highly awarded fertility specialist at Melbourne IVF who brings both deep clinical expertise and lived experience to the conversation. With over a decade of experience in reproductive medicine, plus her own personal fertility journey, Dr Kokum truly gets it.

Together, they unpack what endometriosis actually is, why it takes so long to diagnose, and how it can (but doesn’t always) impact fertility. They also dive into the new research, latest treatment options, and the power of early support and advocacy. This is a science-backed, myth-busting, deeply human conversation.

You’ll hear about:

• What’s really going on with endometriosis and why it’s more than just period pain
• How it can affect fertility and when it’s worth investigating further
• The new treatment options available (that go beyond surgery)
• Why not everyone with endo will struggle to fall pregnant
• How to build a care team and advocate for your needs

Whether you’ve been diagnosed, suspect you might have endo, or are supporting someone who is navigating it, this episode will leave you feeling more informed and less alone.

Resources and Links:

📲 Want to chat more about this? Connect with Renee on Instagram: @fillyourcup_

🌐 Want to learn more about Dr Renee White and explore Fill Your Cup Doula services

🍪If you want to gobble up our famous Chocolate + Goji lactation cookies, look no further!

📲  Want to connect with Dr Kokum Jayasinghe? Website: www.drkokum.com.au Instagram: @drkokum

📍 Melbourne IVF: Website: melbourneivf.com.au Instagram: @melbourneivf_official

Practice: Epworth Freemasons, Suite 4, 320 Victoria Parade, East Melbourne Phone: (03) 9417 3755

🎧 Loved this episode? Send it to a friend, chat about it with your GP, or just tuck it away for when you’re ready to take that next step. And if you haven’t already, subscribe and leave a review so more mamas and mamas-to-be can find their way here.

Because you deserve answers. You deserve support. And you deserve to feel like you're not doing this alone. 💛

This episode is proudly sponsored by Our Cow – supporting Aussie farmers with ethically raised, grass-fed meat and ready-made meals delivered straight to your door. Use the code FILLYOURCUP at checkout for $50 off your first order over $199. Because quality, convenience, and nourishing your family should never be out of reach.

Disclaimer: The information on this podcast presented by the Fill Your Cup is not a substitute for independent professional advice.

Nothing contained in this podcast is intended to be used as medical advice and it is not intended to be used to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease, nor should it be used for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for your own health professional's advice.

[00:00:27] I'm Dr. Renee White, and this is The Science of Motherhood. Hello and welcome to The Science of Motherhood I'm your host, Dr. Renee White thank you so much for joining me today. This episode is proudly supported by Our Cow, which is, I don't know about you people out there, but I am very, very particular about my meat, where it comes from, what the quality is. I think we've all heard, you know, some pretty dire stories around all of those things, quality and sourcing. And I have been on the hunt ever since I moved from, uh, Melbourne, where I had my, my ultimate butcher there. And I've been on the hunt for an amazing butcher, which we have many, many here in Tasmania, and I have got some favorites.

[00:02:15] They have fantastic quality food, so you know, they've, they've got the meat, but they've also got some really amazing readymade meals, like their bolognese and their pies are amazing. So it's all a hundred percent grass fed and grassed finished meat hormone free, antibiotic free. It is better for you, the environment and obviously the animals as well and so we have been purchasing all of our meat for all of our mamas through our doula works through Our Cow, and we can get that shipped all across Australia for our Brisbane, Hobart, Melbourne, Sydney team. It's all the same amazing product and I have to share with you that I have one very, very favorite product and that absolutely hands down, is there beef mince with the liver that has been minced into it. So if you are low on iron or you just need like a bit of a pick me up and a boost in that department, their mince is so good for that. So I make all of my meatballs, bolognese, lasagna. Think of anything where there's, I mean, you, we even did them as hamburgers the other day and it's so, so good, and everyone in the family loves it. You can't smell the difference. You can't taste the difference. It is so, so good and because we love them and they love us, they've given us an amazing discount code. So the code is fill your cup all one word, F-I-L-L-Y-O-U-R-C-U-P. That is $50 off your first order when you spend over $199.

[00:04:25] Alright, let's dive into today's episode. On today's episode, we have got Dr Kokum Jayasinghe, who is a fertility specialist at Melbourne IVF. She has never been on the podcast before, but I'm gonna say I don't think it's gonna be the last time that she's on this podcast.

[00:05:30] It was her own fertility challenges, and that is where she really understood the journey, her patients face and her role in helping them achieve success and we talk about that in the discussion today. Obviously you'll know from today's title that we are talking all things endometriosis. We talk about how common it is, why there's an increase, um, in more women being diagnosed.

[00:06:25] I absolutely loved this discussion and you'll hear from myself in the pod. You know, I've got a family history of this and so I was so, so curious. This is what I do I kind of self indulge in, in having these guests on, and I kind of ask a few like little tidbits for myself along the way. But I hope you enjoy this.

[00:07:14] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: Good. Very well, uh, thank you Renee, and thank you for having me on your podcast.

[00:08:01] We just didn't, I don't know why we didn't talk about that in the household. Maybe she was kind of like, you know, it's just, you know, that generation where they just kind of get on with things and what have you. But I distinctly remember seeing how difficult it was for my sister to have endometriosis and it wasn't that classic, oh, I've got my period this month, and we kind of can continue on with our life. Like she had days of school all the time. How common is endometriosis?

[00:09:20] Mm. So one of the biggest issues with endometriosis is it is taking a very long time to diagnose. So because people are reluctant to seek help, you know, seek help and go to a doctor. And even if you go to a doctor to initiate investigations and to make a formal diagnosis can take years. So that's why this whole concept of endometriosis awareness, so we are talking about it openly. Patients are aware of it, GPs are in a better position to investigate that. So sooner we understand and work out what's happening with the patient the better she, she is informed and make some informed decision about your, about her, um, medications, her treatment options and her life pretty much.

[00:10:49] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: I think there is both. There's two factors there. It is, uh, probably the incidence was similar, but now we are getting more women to come forward and talking about it and asking for help. Mm-hmm. So the, um, diagnosing them much sooner so that would be a bigger factor in us now saying it is one in seven. So I remember when I was a much younger doctor, or in my medical students days, I would say, we were saying the statistics, one in 12 or one in 10 women had endometriosis. So it is becoming more and more frequent.

[00:11:36] Dr Renee White: Yeah.

[00:11:55] Dr Renee White: Why is it that it takes so long to diagnose? Like, what, what. You know, back, back in the day and it did. It took a long time for my sister to get diagnosed. What do you think it is about that?

[00:12:32] Dr Renee White: Yeah,

[00:13:53] And that's the very thing we are trying to change by raising awareness and making patients comfortable talking about it. Talking about endometriosis on a daily conversation mm-hmm without any hesitation, Hey, why do you ask about my periods? You would say, okay, what do you wanna know about my periods? And, and, and if a colleague or a friend ask, uh, to say, this doesn't sound normal, you should go see someone mm kind of, uh, advice and GPs are now encouraged to in fact, ask the patients about your, uh, about their periods and if they find something unusual or some not fitting in with normal descriptions to start investigation sooner. And also the awareness that ultrasound not, may not be the gold standard test for endometriosis mm-hmm and having a normal ultrasound doesn't completely rule that out.

[00:15:22] Put that to the side, and yes, it's something you're gonna have to deal with every month, but it wasn't, as you say, it wasn't a dinner table conversation. Whereas I think now, perhaps my generation is like, okay, let's celebrate this. Like this is an amazing event to have and let's normalise it both with girls and boys. Like I just saw the other day, one of my friends had posted that she, every time she gets a period she puts a little red bracelet on and her two boys know that mummy's got her period, and therefore she might be a little bit more irritable and she might be a bit sore and she's tired and she needs a bit more nurturing and patience and things like that. I think, you know, and I'd love your opinion, those are the types of conversations and norms we should be investing in for our society.

[00:17:00] Dr Renee White: well equipped.

[00:17:12] Dr Renee White: Yeah, absolutely um I'm just gonna shift gear 'cause I guess we, we dive into this kind of, you know, topic and you and I both know it quite intimately about what endometriosis is. But if there's someone out there, you know, perhaps they're, they're quite young and you know, they're like, okay, well what the hell is it Endo? Or they think a family and friend have it, or they think they have it. What is endometriosis and what I guess are the red flags where you start to think, oh, hold on a minute, on a bit of self-reflection. Maybe that's something I'm experiencing, it's not just period pain.

[00:18:39] What I mean by back bleeding is if you understand the uterus and the anatomy, when you have your period, you are shredding the endometrial lining, and that is what you notice on your pad. Mm-hmm. That blood can flow backwards through your tubes into the pelvis. So back into the abdominal or the tummy, the blood can backflow through the tubes if your tubes are open. And most of us have open tubes. Mm-hmm. And that is how endometriosis happens. So every woman will have this, every woman will have some blood flowing backwards into the abdomen and you have a cleaning mechanism, I simply call it, it is the mopping up. So you mop up the blood that, uh, goes backwards every month.

[00:19:52] Dr Renee White: Mm mm Uh, is there some genetic elements as well? Do we know that?

[00:20:31] Overall pelvic pain that is out of proportionate to that crampy and mild pain that anyone would get with your periods mm-hmm is the typical presentation. So I'm gonna keep going, um, elaborating this a little bit more. Yes. So pain is very subjective. So how one would experience pain is different and some women actually will, uh, experience the pain, but think, well, this is normal. Right. And then, so she may not necessarily go and see, um, medical advice or seek help because she call it normal. Everyone's pain threshold and experience is different at the same time the disease itself, it is not black and white. You won't call yes or no for endometriosis. It is not black and white.

[00:22:01] Wow. So it's not a correlation to say, well, severe disease equivalent to severe pain minor diseases, no pain, no less pain. There's no correlation between disease severity and the experience of pain for the patient.

[00:22:51] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: No, no. So at the elective cesarean section Renee, the uterus is, um, quite enlarged and uterus is, uh, it, it, it is, it is the elephant in the room. It is taking the whole, whole space in the pelvis, and we make a tiny incision to get the babies head out. Mm-hmm and we deliver the baby. Yes. And then we quickly, because it is bleeding, the uterus has very high blood supply in pregnancy, it is start to bleed.

[00:23:23] Dr Renee White: no one's poking around

[00:23:42] Dr Renee White: Ah, okay. That's fascinating. 'cause yeah, when my mum asked, I thought, I don't, I I don't know, like, I dunno, you dunno what you dunno, right?

[00:24:24] We don't have to put a camera into every single woman's pelvis thinking, oh, what if she has endometriosis? Yeah. Right. So there will be women who has endometriosis and they are totally unaware of it, and that's okay. Yeah. It's not going to, um, catch them or make any, do any harm if it is undiagnosed and untreated. Mm-hmm. So what we don't want is people who are symptomatic is getting ignored mm-hmm and calling normal when there is a pathological condition and there are treatment available so we can make their lives better or we can improve their quality of life. If the patient quality of life is already good and she's happy, she's smiling, she's enjoying life, we don't wanna give her a label unnecessarily and saying, Hey, by the way, did you know that you have endometriosis? What difference does it make?

[00:25:41] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: So this is where my interest lies, Renee with fertility and endometriosis because I'm a fertility specialist. So again, the key point is not everyone who has endometriosis end up with, uh, trouble falling pregnant. So the most important, um, point there I wanna highlight is in fact two third of women or majority of women with endometriosis may not have any trouble falling pregnant whatsoever.

[00:26:23] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: And this is the, the, the facts there are vast majority of people with endometriosis may get away without having any trouble falling pregnant. So when we look at the statistics and studies, two thirds of women who have endometriosis have no infertility. And it is about one third of women with endometriosis have trouble falling pregnant. Mm-hmm. However, Renee, as I keep telling you, I'm a fertility specialist. When you look at my waiting room with women who come in with infertility to see me, up to 50% of women in my waiting room has endometriosis because I am seeing a selected population.

[00:27:04] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: Okay. Just a few points there. So if we find, let's say we have a 21-year-old presenting with period pain and pain with sex and she has significant symptoms and we took a good history and we invest, uh, investigated and we did a pelvic ultrasound and pelvic ultrasound is showing some endometriosis. So how are we going to educate her and how is she going to make an informed decision about her future? So 21, she's coming in with pain is this a time to do an operation thinking unless we do any operation, she's gonna develop infertility for future. So that is not the thinking. So what we wanna do at the age of 21 when she came with um, symptoms, is to do something to improve her quality of life and manage what she came in with.

[00:28:47] Yeah, so contraceptive pill, other than contraception has huge other benefits. So endometriosis management is one of them. So if the patient tolerate the pill, we can skip the periods, totally avoid the period, um, and go for months without any bleeding. So her problem is solved there in multiple ways. She's not getting any pain and also she's not getting any back bleeding to cause the disease to progress.

[00:29:13] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: And there's nothing wrong with being on the pill for months, years, as long as she wants to. Mm-hmm. So that might be all she needs. She doesn't need anything else. Yeah. Right. And if the pain is not controlled with simple things, we may consider surgery because surgery is definitely a proven method of helping with pain as well as helping with fertility. Mm. So it could be a different situation. If I have, let's say I have a 35 year old coming in with uh, period pains and symptoms, and we take a good history and we do an ultrasound and we find endometriosis right. So now I am asking her, now you are 35 because it is a well known fact now with age, your fertility declines.

[00:30:41] Mm-hmm. I'm saying this is a good age. You are 35 now start trying and endometriosis is linked with subfertility, so you may have trouble and you are in now a good age to start trying. And if she told me, look, I really, really would like to have kids in future, but I don't have a partner. Mm-hmm. And that is an opportunity I would take and say, how do you feel about egg freezing? Because there is a link and a connection and we know women with endometriosis can have, um, reduced fertility. You're 35, this is a good discussion point to say how do you feel about egg freezing? Because the last thing I want is your endometriosis as well as age acting synergistically to reduce your fertility in future, when I know about these things, when you are 35, and we had some opportunity for some preventative medicine and to preserve your fertility.

[00:31:45] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: Absolutely yeah.

[00:31:57] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: There are lots of, um, options Renee, there are lots of options. So I think we need the most important point is we need to look at the patient holistically mm-hmm not just jump into surgery. So look into things holistically uh, work as a multidisciplinary team and also individualised, all those are the key words. Holistic approach, multidisciplinary and, and individualised treatment. So it's not one treatment fit everyone. Mm. So with the younger women who's, uh, presenting with their symptoms, we just need to just work out is there any room for improvement with their exercise, with their diet um, and there are studies showing anti-inflammatory type of diet may help with their symptoms.

[00:32:41] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: Yeah, yeah. Acupuncture, yoga, and, uh, and, and, and some would need some. Some kind of psychological support, right? Mm-hmm. And especially with younger girls, because this is going to be a chronic condition. Mm-hmm. It is not something we can wave a magic wand and clear it. It is going to be a chronic condition, so it's gonna affect the patient. It is going to affect her partner, it is going to affect her family, it is going to affect her workplace because she may have some sick days. So it is, if, if we can work in a team and a group and, um, get some psychological support as well for her mental health wellbeing, her understanding, how the partner can cope when she has her periods, how the family can cope when she has her periods, how she can cope with the workplace when she has her periods.

[00:33:41] Dr Renee White: I think that's a really, really good point that you raise because I think there is this whole focus on, as you say, the pathology of the disease, the pain side of it, but the ripple effect into the community and how that person functions as a human being with their workplace, with their relationships.

[00:34:04] Dr Renee White: It, it, it, it is, it everyone is affected around you, um, through this chronic disease. Fantastic points. 'cause Yeah, I just, I keep, I. Coming back to the way that my sister like had to endure all this stuff and it was unknown then and as I said, probably, you know, swept under the carpet a little bit. Obviously this is the science of motherhood. We are all about the science. So I'd love to talk to you about. Any latest research, um, that we have around, um, assisting women with endo, because I, I do hear a lot, this is kind of the running theme I get from, um, messages and emails from people, like, why aren't we doing more in women's health research?

[00:35:05] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: Yes. Um, so I will answer that question and go back to, there's few more things I wanna talk about the fertility side and the treatment side.

[00:35:13] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: So in terms of the research, there is a blood test that we are working on that would make things much easier in terms of diagnosing if we are not there yet as to clinically be available. But, uh, it, we are close, we are getting close. There's a blood test being developed to do on these patients who presenting with symptoms to do and work out whether they have the condition or not, right? So that will be much easier than the imaging and, and a laparoscopy. So we are getting there. And if I can take you back to infertility and how we believe it, um, the endometriosis effect and some of the treatment options.

[00:36:21] Dr Renee White: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:01] Mm-hmm. So that's one way it can reduce inflammation, it can reduce egg quality, and then overall inflammation in the uterus and the uterine environment make it unhealthy for an embryo to grow. Mm-hmm. So multifactorial. Mm. And treatment. When we are talking about treatment with infertility, the real treatment that may improve pregnancy rates is going to be surgery.

[00:37:25] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: So with surgery, we can remove endometriosis and the removal of it will give you a window of high pregnancy rates with less inflammation and a clear pelvis and unfortunately, even though we re uh, remove the endometriosis 50% of the time, disease disease is gonna come back at a variable timeframe though.

[00:37:46] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: Right. It can be months to years, but disease is gonna come back. So after we do surgery on a patient who's trying to get pregnant, keeping in mind what her age is, I would suggest. If the tubes are open, you have a trial of natural pregnancy for certain time. It could be four to six months, depending on the patient's age. Mm-hmm. And if it has not worked, then suggest considering IVF sooner than later because it's not just the age. She has other pathology linked to her infertility.

[00:38:19] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: Okay. And again, let's take an example here. So it's not that every single patient who comes with endometriosis need to go through surgery or IVF, so these are really need to be individualised and even the people who only do this, nothing else, still can't give you a yes or no, and like a recipe, this is what you're gonna do. Mm-hmm. So when the patient comes, you need to talk to the patient, and it is really individualised case by case. And also discussing these things with the patient and certainly get her involved in the decision making.

[00:39:40] Unlikely to happen you would take her to IVF sooner.

[00:39:45] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: So it is at the end of the day, we can keep going around these points in details, but the key take home point is it has to be individualised depending on the patient yeah and we also wanna take into consideration how old she is mm-hmm. How long she has been trying and what her overall family goals are. Yeah. Is she planning to have more than one child? Right, and surgery certainly can affect your erv, especially if she has endometriomas, which means blood filled cyst sitting on the ovaries. The more we operate on that, her egg reserve is going to go down.

[00:40:21] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: So, so all these things we need to think about and on the same, the other side, if she has a blood field sing on her ovary and we are planning an IVF cycle and during an IVF cycle, we are gonna put a needle in to collect these eggs and that can be a risk factor for infection, right? So all these things you need to just have a very good, thorough assessment of your patient and individualise the treatment.

[00:40:50] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: That is a lot yes.

[00:41:28] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: Good question, Renee. We believe not, we believe not. Okay. If anything, there might be slight increase in miscarriage rates. Is that because of the inflammation? But overall the, what we believe is the endo is linked with infertility or falling pregnant. Mm-hmm. But once it has happened, it's unlikely to cause problems later.

[00:41:49] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: And going back to treatment options. Mm-hmm. So we touch base on the, the multidisciplinary approach and whatnot, and there are now lot more medical options available before considering surgery. Okay. So in the past probably pretty much one, the only option we had was the contraceptive pill, which is still a very good option and a good starting point and if the patient tolerates the contraceptive pill, the best way to do that is to avoid the periods altogether. Mm-hmm. So she doesn't get the pain and she, we can have the disease control. Now there are certainly more developments in the, the medicine and in more, more options available in the market. So I wanna mention about those ones.

[00:43:08] Dr Renee White: Right.

[00:43:51] Hmm. So what this does is, uh, bringing back or giving back a small dose of estrogen and progesterone so you can continue this if the patient is tolerating and it is working for her as long as you want. Okay, so there are more medical options for endometriosis, pain management in the market than we used to. Mm-hmm. So these things are new developments and Visanne has come on PBS and can have access, um, for much lower price. So key, key point there is none of the medical options will actually help with fertility because all of these options is going to one way or the other, stop you from getting pregnant.

[00:44:31] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: So surgery. Yeah. So surgery is the, the way removing, physi, literally removing the endometriosis and plaques are going to help with fertility and that helps with pain. Medical options will help with pain and no immediate benefit of fertility because these, these options will stop you from getting pregnant.

[00:44:56] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: It's definitely, and when we diagnose endometriosis in young girls or in, in our reproductive age, um, girls, what we wanna, the key points to talk about is quality of life, how to improve their quality of life mm-hmm and educate them, this can be linked with infertility, so we'll start thinking about family sooner than later. Mm-hmm. And if they are not in a place to do that. Have the discussion of egg freezing.

[00:45:39] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: So I think it is the blood test. That is the, that is the, the excite, exciting new thing. Watch this space. It is coming and it is happening in the laboratory level. Mm-hmm. But it has not come to the clinical, um, use yet. Yeah. But it will be a matter of time and that certainly will help us reducing that diagnostic time. Presenting to the GP versus diagnosing with the condition we believe that will help because education and knowledge is the key. So if we can get women to talk about it, raise awareness, and make the diagnosis within a shorter time, then the patient is empowered with options. Yeah. So she can make the the choices and options suitable for her.

[00:46:26] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: Oh no, it is, uh, coming out of this probably in multiple countries. Yeah, certainly it's happening in Australia. It is happening in Melbourne. It is happening in the Royal Women's Hospital.

[00:46:35] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: Yes.

[00:46:37] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: It goes through. Yes.

[00:47:03] Do you work closely with other teams in Melbourne in, you know, specifically, like how is it all being organised? I guess that that's the other thing. Like logistically, is it kind of like, is there a hub like. You know what I mean? Like is it like a logistical nightmare for patients to work this out? Or have we worked something?

[00:48:06] Right? Yeah. And um, so in the private sector, and of course even in the public sector, if the patient then has any, any fertility issues, then the IVF unit or the fertility um, unit can be joined in with the patient management. Mm-hmm. Either egg freezing or IVF and getting pregnant. In the private sector, it is a similar thing so when the GP send you to the specialist with either fertility or with pain, you will be linked with, depending on your skills and your expertise, you would be linked with an IVF doctor or laparoscopic surgeon. Mm-hmm. Um, or your colleagues that are experts in the pain management. So either setting, there will be a multidisciplinary setting that you are working in because these conditions are complex and patients' needs are complex and to give them the best possible care, you need a whole team mm-hmm to using their expertise and their experience.

[00:49:10] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: Don't think so really I think we covered a huge range of um Yeah, this is problems on that yeah.

[00:49:45] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: Seeking help early. The top tip would be seeking help early if you think there is some concern. So rather than thinking mm-hmm um, it would be good to go have a chat to someone.

[00:49:57] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: And, and that is also when you ask me about what are the new developments and what are the things in the horizon that is happening to help these patients. There's gonna be long conversations, well build long conversations that the GPs are going to do from July this year to talk about these kind of things. So if the patient is thinking something not quite right, I may have endo and whatnot and they are going to be starting trying for a family soon.

[00:50:56] Dr Renee White: Amazing. Did you have a go-to resource? I I kind of, this could be like a book or a poem or something for mums to be, was there something in your motherhood journey that like you kind of leaned on, you thought, oh gosh, that was an amazing resource, I love that.

[00:52:12] So I certainly think your podcasts sound like a great place to start and these are, you are talking to experts and asking day to day, um, common questions that every woman, even though they're not speaking out loud mm-hmm. Is going through their mind and thinking, what if, um, what is the answer? So rather than random Googling, you are talking to the experts in the field and, uh, giving them the right answers. So podcasts like yours will be a very good source of information to get. And other reputable places like, like our O&G college and, and, and, and, uh, the Royal Women's Hospital. Mm-hmm. So these places, when you go, there is a patient information section with frequently asked questions, things that people are actually asking and thinking there are information given by medical staff, reliable, simple, patient level information. So those would be good sources to look at.

[00:53:18] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: And also, this is a conversation I have with my patients frequently, is not to compare yourself to others right. And then so she, the patients may come and say, blah, blah, blah, if this, and this is her outcome, and we are saying, well, we, we, it's okay to talk to other people, but please don't compare yourself and this is a simple answer we tell our kids every day. Mm-hmm. Right? It is, um, it is, everyone is different. Everyone, everybody's. Medical conditions are unique and different. You have your team of expertise, your team that is looking after you, and try not to compare yourself on these Facebook groups and forums and whatnot that you communicate. And also keeping in mind, especially when patients go through IVF and things.

[00:54:48] Dr Renee White: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's good advice. Last question, which we borrow this one off Brene Brown, what is on your bedside table?

[00:55:33] Dr Renee White: Yeah little oxytocin booster.

[00:55:41] Dr Renee White: Oh, I love that. That's so sweet. It actually reminds me, because when we work with families in our doula care, we always gift our mums these beautiful cards, which is from a, a company, uh, called Seasons of Mama, and they're little cards and they've got little quotes on them and essentially it's a little like, woohoo, like you're doing an amazing job. Like, you know, I feel like if the card was like a real human, it would have like, you know, pompoms and like whistles and whatever.

[00:56:43] Yeah. So sometimes not every day is uh, good news so happy news. And some patients I unfortunately have to deliver bad news. Mm-hmm. And my heart sink as well when I deliver these things. But then is this looking around to see, well, it's part of the job. Sometimes it is good news and sometimes it is, um, not so good news. And then looking at these happy notes and cards and pictures and things, give you a bit of, uh, oxytocin boost to say, well, it's okay. Just keep, keep trying, persist, and we can help these people.

[00:57:39] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: East Melbourne is the home, so it is Epworth Freemasons, Suite 4, 320 Victoria Parade Epworth Freemasons and the number is 9 4 1 7 3 7 5 5. And I'm sure you can find me if you just Google my name. Yeah. Um, and that is the, uh, the phone number.

[00:58:01] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: Thank you for having me, Renee. It was lovely chatting with you.

[00:58:10] Dr Kokum Jayasinghe: bye-Bye.

[00:58:27] You've just listened to another episode of The Science of Motherhood proudly presented by Fill Your Cup, Australia's first doula village head to our website ifillyourcup.com to learn more about our birth and postpartum doula offerings where every mother we pledge to be the steady hand that guides you back to yourself. Ensuring you feel nurtured, informed, and empowered so you can fully embrace the joy of motherhood with confidence. Until next time, bye.