Did you know that despite the pressure to scale and grow indefinitely, the majority of businesses are small, and that most female entrepreneurs do not reach six figures?

We discuss this and much more in this eye-opening episode with BS-free business consultant, Maggie Patterson! 

Maggie and I dig into the myths and hype that lead small business owners to invest in things that do not move the needle,  cause them unnecessary stress and anxiety and shrinking their bottom line. 

If you are one of the many female solopreneurs who is questioning whether she wants to grow an online empire or simply stay small and sustainable, this episode is a must listen! 

Key Takeaways from the Episode:

🎙️ The importance of critical thinking and questioning in decision-making

🎙️ Challenges of making hasty decisions in purchasing courses and other products

🎙️ Marketing tactics and survivorship bias in the online business ecosystem

🎙️ Impact of societal expectations on entrepreneurship and mental health

🎙️ Distinguishing between mindset issues and reasonable concerns in business

Mic Drop Moment: 

"I want to create a community and environment where we can grapple with, 'How do I pay myself more? How do I sell strategy? How do I plan in a way that actually works for me?'"   Maggie Patterson

Want more of Maggie?  

The BS-free Service Business Podcast: https://apple.co/4bcJMwl

Staying Solo Squad:https://bsfreebusiness.com/squad/

Maggie on IG: https://www.instagram.com/bsfreebusiness/

Also mentioned in this episode:  

Duped Podcast - co hosted by Maggie & Michelle Mazur - https://duped.online/

If you are a solopreneur who is ready to uncomplicate your business and maximize your purpose and profit, this is a perfect time to work with me.

My Boss Up Breakthrough framework has just been updated to put more emphasis on implementation, so we make sure you get, and stay in momentum. 

I’lll help you Boss Up your boundaries, your offers, your pricing, and your marketing strategy and remove anything that keeps you a best kept secret. 

We will also make sure you are including mental wellness in your business plan so that you’re not just successful on the outside, but aligned with your values, and priorities on the inside.  

Want to know more?  Schedule a free consultation here: https://bit.ly/3qrJ9YQ

Not quite ready to work with me, but wonder what it would be like? Grab my private podcast,  “Show Up Like a Boss”. 

It’s free, and you listen to it in the same podcast player where you hear this show.  It’s kind of like a backstage pass to working with me, includes 10 clips of me coaching and tips for how to apply the strategies to your own business and life.  Check it out:  https://bit.ly/3ZOD3CK

If you found this episode insightful, please share it with someone who could benefit from a fresh perspective on entrepreneurship, mental well-being, and the pursuit of authentic success!

H: Maggie, you are a proponent of anti scale, the anti hype, the anti following the big name people telling us we all need to do the same thing, which is grow, grow, grow with no end in sight. You are taking a totally different approach, let's talk about that.

G: I’m super excited and thank you for having me, Diann because not a lot of people wanna have conversation, but I am dying at all times to have it.

H: What is it about the obsession in the interwebs with growth and scaling. I mean, it used to be, they would say, I'll help you get a 6 figure business and then after a couple years, that's wasn't enough. Now it's a 7 figure business, and it's like there's no end in sight, this is not realistic for almost anyone, why are we so fucking obsessed with growing our business?

G: Yeah. It's a great question and, I mean, since I've been in the online world, we have seen this ever escalation of numbers right? It was 6 figures and like I arrived here and I was like, I'm a professional, why are we talking about this? Like what are we talking about this for and then it's just it keeps escalating, like multi 6 figures, 7 figures and I mean, ultimately, that comes back to, you know, kind of the bigger systemic thing is we're operating in a system that is very much obsessed with money, fame, and power. So a lot of people have the idea that their businesses need to be the vehicle for them to essentially, obtain the economic power they want, the financial freedom, the flexibility. And, you know, the interesting thing is there is a lot of studies, and we talked about this a lot with my cohost on the Duped podcast, where the reality is that entrepreneurship is actually a much riskier way to go about those things.

Entrepreneurs often make less money than people in traditional corporate roles and yet we're sold this, like, you must grow this business, you must do x, y and z. And I just really, the longer I've been doing this, I started to really look at this critically because I'm someone who's on year, 18 of being my own boss and it's looked very different at different times. Like, I was a freelancer and then I started having a little team and now I have an agency. We're know, I've always been in these different models of I'm by myself or I'm working with other people. And I just, I look at my clients, I look at the majority of people, and the reality is, most people start the business not for the money, they start it for the flexibility and the lifestyle right? So why are we focusing so much on the money and then the second part is, the reality is most, especially if you're someone who identifies as a woman, you're probably not gonna make 6 figures.

H: Tell me what you think about this, Maggie, because what I've witnessed, and I know personally, not just stories, I know women who have lost custody of their kids over this. I know women who have been divorced by their partners over this. I know women who have had foreclosures on their homes, liquidated their 401 K's, leveraged their home to the max with additional lines of credit, and even wiped out their kids' college funds, in the pursuit of this dream of becoming a millionaire mompreneur. And it was all based on mental fuckery, fraud, gaslighting, lies, which I think many of us I can say this for myself. I was a little bit naive to the fact that other women were just as eager to exploit me as men have always been. Because somehow I thought when I went from having, working for others to having my own business, to taking my business online, that if I just trusted other women to lead me, I wasn't gonna get screwed over. There couldn't be anything further from the truth, women are just as good at this stuff as men are, and they are gaining a lot of people.

G: Yeah, and I think one of the things, like, we're conditioned into women lift up other women, women support other women. And what we don't wanna talk about, what we and I mean, I have had a lot of hard conversations about this is, we cannot assume that a woman, when given power, will wield power differently. Sometimes they will and sometimes they won't and a lot of times when I'm talking to people about like kind of the online ecosystem, it's exactly what you said that people have had literally like, they have experienced financial abuse in the most textbook ways from a coach or a mentor or a teacher.

And it's usually a woman doing it to another woman, but we we're not supposed to talk about that. And I think the interesting thing is we think a scammer or a cult leader or someone who is, executing any sort of abuse or doing harm to us is going to be a certain way. We're often gonna assume they're going to identify as a male. We're going to assume they look sketchy and some of the most effective scammers I have encountered, I'm sure that you can cosign this, are people you would least expect, people who literally look like your best friend. You know, or like a really non assuming mom with a messy bun, and like they have 1 interest and 1 interest only, which is keeping you on the hook to get your money.

And a lot of times that means they're making promises, and you get trapped in a cycle of like, just do this one more and then people fall into what's called sunk cost fallacy right? Well, I've already spent $20,000, I'm almost there, let me spend another $20,000. And that's why we have these stories that you have I mean, I've heard some that literally just made me cry because these are people that didn't have these resources to begin with, and they want this so badly. And they've literally been victimized by these bad actors who are really and truly just trying to align their pockets. So on one hand, they're selling you your business should look like this then they're selling you a solution to get there and scamming you in the process. So part of us as business owners untethering from that is saying, well, why do I want that? Do I actually want that? No. How can I do this in a way that's gonna work for me that is going to let me protect myself and actually do what matters most to me.

H: It's so true and I also think that the way it's being sold to us is kind of like religion. If you ever noticed, even though there's lots and lots of different denominations, everybody always claims to have the way. In fact, I'm sure there are churches out there that are called the way and human beings are conditioned to think that people who appear to have what you think you want, and they tell you want it to, and they tell you what it's gonna look like and what it's gonna take and how to get it. And the fact that they have the step by step approach, which at least in our minds means eliminating all risk of failure or even discomfort or making mistakes or experiencing confusion. All I have to do is follow the leader, and I will get to the promised land.

What they don't tell us is probably between 1 and 3% of all the people who ever bought their course, their mastermind, their coaching program, less than 3% of those folks, no matter how hard they worked or how much they spent, will ever get the program promise. And because we all feel that our lack of results is a personal shortcoming and a flaw in us, we keep trying and we keep buying and what we really need to do is ask ourselves, wait, full stop, pump the brakes here. How do I even know I want this or need this or need this, I think there's a bypass around that. Because truly, most people don't need anywhere near $1,000,000 to live the lifestyle that they would be thrilled to.

G: Exactly, and I think what's interesting is when you said that 1 to 3%, and this is one of the most compelling things is there's a phenomenon called survivorship bias. When what we see with survivorship bias is like that top 2, 3% of results. We see that with the testimonials. We see that with who the success stories are the people they bring out on stage, the people they put on their podcast as their star students. We're not seeing the other 97 plus percent of people that didn't get the result. So what we're seeing is lulling us into thinking, oh, this could be me when really, the odds are not in our favor.

And I think that's the thing we have to all remember and engage your critical thinking and say, like, is this possible for me? And this is not to be negative or to you know, my friends call me the dream killer, to kill anyone's dreams, but like to tether this back to reality. Like, if that is the goal, like, I'm pretty sure someone's not selling it for $2,000 on the internet. I just don't think it's being packaged to you in that way. I don't think a $10,000 certification is the thing that's gonna get you to $1,000,000. There's a lot of things that are in your control and out of your control that are going to go into being traditionally successful in your business.

H: And you know what, let's be honest. I mean, people do love buying whatever the latest version of hope in the jar is. Like, there's a reason why, you know, cosmetic procedures and the beauty industry raking the billion of dollars and have for decades because we want it to be easy. We want it to be fast. We want it to be painless. We want it to have fabulous results. We want it to be largely passive. And when people like you and I start telling the truth, which is that this is gonna take a lot longer. It's gonna be a lot harder, and you're going to fail until you figure it out, they'd be like, no sale, bitch like, I'm I don't, no thanks.

But the truth is, if we stop and say, well, do I really want a course? Do I actually understand what it takes to have a successful course? Not just to create it, but to market it, and sell it, and have the affiliates, and the ads, and all. Do I even know what's involved and if I did, would I still say yes? By the time we are on the hook and being reeled into the boat, gasping for air and flopping around, we've already invested in the dream, and that's I think it's so hard. I mean, I really I may sound like I'm giving people shit for buying into this but I am right there with you with many, many thousands of dollars down the drain for things that I didn't need, I haven't used, and only deterred me from my actual path. So it's really easy to succumb to this because let's be honest, women are not trained to ask themselves, what do I want? What do I need? What's going to work for me? We're taught to make do with what's given us, not ask for expect more, and basically get permission like “mother may I” for every single step we take forward. Those are not ideal conditions for becoming an entrepreneur who risks failure.

G: When we really think about it, so much of this is what they package up for us, it just plays to our most, you know, kind of innate desires in our, you know, especially in the US and Canada and Western Europe is these are things we are taught from we're socialized into at a very young age to be, like, someone else has the answers. I should trust them. I don't know enough. And then what happens is we kinda give away that power for lack of a better term and say like, well, they must have the answer. And it's like, no, they don't have the answer. They're just really good at marketing. They're really good at marketing. They're good at lure you in.

And just because someone is on the Internet saying, I can help you make 7 figures because I've made $10,000,000, we don't know that if they're telling the truth. Maybe they made that by scamming, we don't know what their profit margin is. So we have to really just slow everything down to such a point that we can really and truly critically think about, like, is this what I want? Is this true? Is this actually even gonna help me? Because I know for me, and like what you said so much resonated with me about, like, having made those investments. I’ve also made those investments, not to the degree that other people have because I'm unfailingly practical, but at the same time, like the mental, you know, gymnastics I'm doing there of like, oh, well, maybe this is the thing that changes everything.

Guess what? None of those things changed anything. Nothing changed. What changed is when I stopped listening to all these other people and focused on the fact that, like, I actually know what I'm doing. I'm far enough along in my career, I owned a business for, like, 10 years before I got involved with any of you people. In fact, I'm more experienced than you. What am I doing?

H: Actually, I'm sure you have something to say about imposter syndrome, but I've certainly noticed that the only people who have it are people who are legitimate experts. The shamelessly self promoting know nothings do not suffer from imposter syndrome. They are going out with guns ablazing, making all kinds of promises and saying, I'm a this, I'm a that, I'm an expert, I'm a specialist. I've done this, I can help you do it and they don't even flinch. It seems to me that the more of an expert you actually are, the more experienced you are, the more seasoned you are, the less likely you are to be good at marketing. And the less likely you are to be making any kind of program promises, income promises, or any of the rest of this fuckery that we are so familiar with hearing now and that's a problem because confidence sells, doesn’t it?

And I mean, I'm launching a community and you and I were talking about this, beforehand and, like I'm literally the extended payment plan to end it. I'm like, you can still join for like, three and a half more weeks. People that you probably actually wanna do business with are not applying any pressure, they're being very transparent, and, like, they're just keeping it real. Like, I often have people say, I would love to do this, but not now. And instead of me trying to talk them into it, I'm like, great, you know where to find me when you're ready.

H: It's like don't you have a kidney to sell?

G: I never ever as a business person, and I feel like this is just such a, I never wanna be someone's last ditch effort. I don't wanna be taking someone's last $500, I just don't. I want people to be able to comfortably make that investment and have realistic expectations. Because if they invest their last $500 and this is like their Hail Mary pass, that is far too much pressure for me and far too much pressure for them, that relationship is not gonna go well.

H: That's why you don't date when you've lost your housing and your job because you will not make a good choice. And you're right, I mean, that you're just talking about some of the other things that are so annoying about the countdown timers, the whole launch thing. And it's like, you know, I'm sure you have experienced this, I know I have. People telling us when we don't want what everyone else seems to want, when we are not chasing after the 6, 7, who knows? I don't even know what comes after that. I don't even know how many people there are.

G: Like, it's never ending.

H: Yeah. I thought 8 figures was a billion see, I don't I'm not even capable of doing this kind of math. So what so many people will come around with Maggie is, well, you know, that really sounds like a mindset, I can't even say it. That really sounds like a mindset problem. Like, if you can't even envision how many zeros there are, you're thinking small. You have limiting beliefs. You have money issues. And it just so happens I have a course, or a mastermind, or a program that can fix that and it's very easy to think, do I? Because let's be honest, all human beings have limiting beliefs. It's the way the brain works. It's how we're all raised and there are therapists and coaches and all kinds of folks that can help you with that. But I just reject the notion that if I don't think I want that trillion dollar business, that that automatically means I'm playing small, or that I have scarcity issues. I know you've got a lot to say about this.

G: I personally can think of so many times like it was like, you need to think bigger and I'm like, listen, I have accomplished more in my professional life than I ever thought I would. Like, I was never someone who had any delusion, like, that I was gonna be a millionaire. Like, the fact that I am financially secure at this stage of my life it's pretty freaking amazing to me. And I think I personally have gone back to like, okay, what are my values? My values is about having sufficiency and security. My values are not about having an excessive amount of wealth. Like, why? why? Like don't get me wrong, Diann, I like nice things. I like nice things.

I like to go on trips but I mean, there is a certain point at which we are just like, why? And for me, I would rather have my time. I would rather have my time. I would rather have my peace. And I know a lot of these people say, well, I have that in my business. But I know I am someone who's worked in the tech industry most of my career. I have seen the mental health impact of start up founders going through rapid growth up close and personal. And, yes, they made millions and in some case, you know, money we can't even you and I can't even come up all the zeros for. But I've also seen what happened to their families, I've seen what happened to them. I've seen the grave mental health outcomes, this to me is not appealing.

I'm not personally that motivated by wealth or power or fame. I would rather be someone that just is, like, well respected in my area, and I can just go about my life and do my things. And I like I just wanna very, like I won't say small. I'm a simple person who wants a very simple and complicated life because I've had enough complicated and I feel like most people are like this. If we can just get to a place of sufficiency, and security, and simplicity, like, that's a really beautiful life. So these people with their mindset issues, they're not my therapist. They don't know me, and they can move it along.

H: It's really unfortunate how many people feel shamed and become apologetic when they say, I just want this. And that's really, really unfortunate because the numbers will prove out, as you've stated, the vast majority of businesses in the Western part of the world are small businesses. And let's talk about the statistics of small businesses, many of them failing within 5 years. So this is such a big gap between I wanna make $1,000,000 versus if you make it to the end of 5 years and you're still in business, you are a fucking rock star, it's just a total disconnect.

G: It’s a complete disconnect. So I've been writing the shitty first draft of my book, and I've been going into those numbers, and it's like, not just 5 years, but 10 years, 15 years. Like, the number of people that are still there after 10 years. Like, if you can set up a business that is giving you what you need and you're able to sustain it for 10 years, that is a major fucking accomplishment. Yet the bigger Zeitgeist and communication and, you know, imagery around entrepreneurship is very much about, like, becoming a billionaire or a multimillionaire when the reality is is we're recreating jobs with way more flexibility for ourself, and we're all happy over here. And I think it's okay for everyone, and I just wanna give everyone the permission slip. It's okay for you to want what you want, and if that's not aligned with some bullshit ideal of success, that's fine. Like, I just wanna be able to go kayaking when the lake is not frozen. Like, these are simple things, but this is what makes me happy.

H: And preserving your freaking mental health because I'm familiar with the research on entrepreneurship and mental health, and it's really bleak. It is really fucking bleak so when you combine the fact that we've been conditioned to think we know what we want, but what we think we know we want is what someone else has told us to want because they financially benefit from keeping us on the hook for wanting it. Most of us will struggle and fail to get there, blame ourselves, and continue to invest in that dream. But there are a small number of people, I've met a few, who say, you know what? I built that thing, and now I'm walking away from it. I built the multiple 6 figures, the 7 figure people that I was following just maybe 3, 4 years ago, are nowhere to be found. They built the thing, and now they're like, I full stop do not want this anymore.

I don't know if they're gonna pop up somewhere else. I don't know if they're gonna reinvent. I don't know if they're gonna come back. But I think this notion that, well, yeah, now you're saying I wanna be intentionally small, you couldn't cut it, that's not necessarily the case. I think some people try and fail and adjust their expectations. Others made it to the promised land, they got to the gold ring and thought, this is not fucking worth it. And others just sort of realized along the way, why am I striving so hard? This is not what I signed up for, I think I need a major adjustment reality check and a new business plan and I think you have a lot for those people.

G: I think the reality is and I'm sure you've had this experience, Diann. Like, whether you're a coach or consultant like I am or a mentor, like, people need to sometimes go through it to get to the other side to realize. And, you know, when you said, like, there's people who've got to the $1,000,000 mark and have decided that's not for them. What people don't talk about is we so often conflate the revenue number with a personal take home. Like, I personally have friends who have businesses who make, you know, multiple 7 figures. Their take home is less than mine and the level of complexity in their life, and a lot of them have peace out because of that.

We need to stop thinking that the revenue number is the thing. I'm much more interested for the majority of people who want to have a solo lifestyle business. How much what is your goal for your take home salary? Let's reverse engineer that so you have the money you need to feel safe and secure and sustain your life in the way you need to. And like for me, I have a child in university so when I look at that number, I'm like, okay, we've got this much funded. Here's the difference and, like, I've done my job. I funded the child's university like, that's to me a major life accomplishment, those are the kind of wins most people want. Could we just focus on those and, like, celebrate those instead of, like, something when someone is actually probably pretty broke?

H: Or not mentally well.

G: I mean, when you touched on the mental health part of it, I mean, the research there, entrepreneurs are very lonely, addiction issues, anxiety. I'm like, I have anxiety and depression, like, and there is a bit of a chicken and an egg, like, you know, a lot of peep I'm also neurodivergent right? So did I become an entrepreneur because of those things or I don't think they were, in my case, caused by entrepreneurship. But a lot of people deal with very grave mental health out outcomes after they start becoming an entrepreneur. So I think, you know, we have to really understand the cost of it. The cost to our well-being, our physical, our mental health, our relationships, all those other aspects, you know, all the other baskets or like pieces of the pie, and there is a cost for a lot of people and it's like, how can you run the business so there's not that cost? That's the question I'm interested in.

H: And we can have a business that addresses complex problems and significant needs without making it a complex, complicated business. One of the things I've really been looking forward to this conversation to ask you, Maggie, is this whole idea about scaling. Scaling. Scaling. Scaling. And I understand that scaling is so that you generate more revenue, so that you have more time freedom, because you are basically building a team who are going to take things off your plate. You're gonna be the figurehead. They're gonna do all the work. Yes, I understand that but there are ways that we can scale our business when we stay intentionally small. Can we talk about what that works?

G: Yeah, so one of the most powerful things we have when it comes to our business is strategy. And when I say strategy, I mean, the business model, the strategy around that. The actual selling of strategy and making sure we're getting compensated at a level and pricing that in a way that actually ensures that the true impact of that is being there. So many people give away the strategy for free. So many people lump it in with their tactics. So many coaches give it away on the discovery call like, I am someone I create a lot of content. I have a lot of conversations with people, a lot of interviews. I'm very, like, you know, as a lot of the entrepreneurs say, generous. Like, I understand that that's part of me building the business I'm building but there be needs to become a point at which you're like, yeah, no, you're paying me for that and the strategy behind that.

The other piece is the pricing strategy. Most solo entrepreneurs I encounter, and I won't say, I will use most, not all. They're not charging enough for their services and you just raise new prices, you would be making the money you want to make to be content in your business. But what tends to happen is people don't look at the business strategy. They're like, oh, I'm selling done for you services, I can't do anymore. Or I'm just a coach and then they start getting or they don't look at pricing. They don't look at how to get compensated for things they're already doing and then what do they do, they throw the whole business away. They start another business, coaching you know, group coaching or something else and they don't realize that they're starting another business.

We can stay within the practice of being a real service provider, and really look at all those levers we have on a strategic basis to make the money we wanna make and not reach this income ceiling we're told. Like, yes, there's an income ceiling at some point if you're a small business, you know, or truly a team of 1, but it's most people are not anywhere near it when they think they are. I can get in there and I'm like, oh, this, this, this, this. They're like, what? I'm like, yeah, that's how you do it, friends. It doesn't they're like, I don't need a team member of that like, well, if you want someone to help you with admin because you suck at it, sure. But, like, do you need to do all these complicated things? No like, a lot of it is just charging more and having more people coming through the door, simple economics.

H: I know. You had to go there and make it insane. You’re known for that, so I expected it. But what about the fact that when you have a small service based business, whether you are a soloist, a sole proprietor, or have a small agency, you're still trading time for dollars, Maggie. And haven't we also been told you don't want to trade time for dollars, so what is the mental fuckery behind that because that stops a lot of people in their trap.

G: Hello. That's what work is in a capitalist system and I mean, I'm a politics major. Like, you know, I spent all the times in the hallowed halls studying this stuff. I'm like, sorry friends, when you create a course, you know what? You know what's gonna happen is, you're not gonna be necessary trading time for dollars, but you're gonna be marketing for a dollar. Like, your time is going to shift into marketing versus doing client work. So I think the question you always have to ask is, how do I wanna spend my time? And people like and here's the thing, I know lots of people who are very successful with courses, but they spend their time in their business in a very different way. And if you hate marketing, you're better off having a practice with like, you need to have 12 clients in a year, versus trying to have a 120. So people don't understand that like, unless you are at a level that is not attainable for most people, you are trading time for dollars. That is the way work is meant to work, we exchange our time to make the money.

H: I know. It's so realistic when you say that. I just wonder why so many of us have been duped to name the podcast you and Michelle Mazur, co host. How many of us have been duped into thinking that's a really bad thing because really, if you think about it, when you create a course, you spent the time to create the course, and now you're selling it for dollars. So isn't that time for dollars like, isn't that effort for dollars? Isn't that the same thing with just a little bit of a different paradigm?

G: That's what people don't understand and I think people don't have a really good handle on the sheer volume people need to make the money in a way that is much more hands off. As, you know, as someone who's worked behind the scenes of launches of these things in the past, there's nothing hands off about it. Those business owners are working harder than anybody else. And a lot of them, because they are so, in my experience with the ones I was working with at least, because they are so tethered to the broader kind of celebrity entrepreneur ecosystem, if you will, they've got a $100,000 mastermind to pay for. They've got an image to maintain. They have a photo shoot in Paris to fund. Like, the stakes are a lot higher for them and I'm like, oh, this this? No, I don't want this in my life. This is horrible. You are stressed out and you are now doing anything you can to get the money in the door. No, thank you. No, hard pass.

H: You have become an ambassador of keeping things small on purpose. Not because you couldn't cut it in the bigger leagues. Not because you got mindset issues, not because you're playing small, but because it is a very, very legitimate, satisfying, secure, and sustainable choice that many people want and would prefer, and they might need a little bit of permission and a little bit of leadership to choose that within a culture that has been preaching all of the stuff we've been talking about for the last 30 minutes. You, at the time of this recording, are about to launch the 1st cohort of the Staying Solo Squad. And by the time we release this episode, you that cohort will be underway. Let's unpack all the juicy goodness that you've put into that and your inspiration for creating it and the people that you hope it will attract.

G: One of the things that's been really interesting is I have been running my own agency for a while. 8 years, 7 years, it's been a while, it's been a while. But I also have been running BS Free Business and running masterminds that really came out of, like, a lot of my friends being like, but I don't understand, how are you doing? I was like, oh and I think because of the experiences I had previously as a freelancer working at other agencies, I had a lot of insight into things and one of the things I have really personally struggled with as a service business owner is, when you get to a certain part and you point your service business, it's kind of like there's just nowhere for you to go. There's no community. There's no one having these conversations. Like, who's having the conversation about like, maybe it's not a capacity issue.

Maybe you just don't have enough energy. Like, maybe you don't have like, a lot of my clients are neurodivergent and I know you said that a lot of your listeners. Like, maybe you don't have the sensory capacity to handle that situation. We don't talk about those things. We're just like, oh, it's a simple equation of x versus y. And I think for solo business owners, there's just like their feel like, well, do I have to have a team or am I just done? And so I want to create a community and environment where we can kind of grapple with the, how do I pay myself more? How do I sell strategy? What am I gonna do about, you know, figure out how do I plan in a way that actually works for me? Am I in a season of, like, do I wanna be striving in my business, or do I wanna be just chill it out. Like, looking at those kind of questions that people are trying to figure out on their own or kind of whispered behind, like, having those conversations with their friends.

But like, how do we have that in a truly and I also was really important to me. I do have, you know, masterminds that cost more. I wanted something that was at a price point that was not this do not require 1 on 1 support, but really was truly about the community. And one of the things we've discovered is we are really good at bringing together awesome people. Because, the one benefit of having this very, like, no BS vibe is we attract very no BS people. The BS people tend to just, like, block me or like be like, I hate you, you're awful so we get rid of them really quick. So when we put together a community, like, it's we're watching, you know, genuine friendships. We've got really good conversations and I love being a part of supporting business owners in that way.

So we put together this community which takes kind of the best things we do within, our masterminds. You know, we've got a Slack community, we are very focused on how are we going to do planning and make sure we have time set aside to actually work on the business. You know, getting feedback from being an ongoing basis as needed and really supporting people in a way that is not like you have to have this hour long summit every single week with a coach like sometimes people just have a question and need an answer. Like or an outside perspective from other people who've been there. And like, I don't know Diann, where do people do this? I don't know because it's not something I was ever able to find.

H: No and I think especially within this larger context, when everyone is zigging, you're zagging, and you're attracting other zaggers. I'm also neurodivergent, majority of my clients are and they have spent far too much of their life trying to conform to the norm, trying to be the square peg in the round hole, that's why the majority of them are not working for someone else anymore. So to give up the freedom to choose how we create our business, how we shape it, how we define it, how it evolves over time, who we serve, how we serve them, and make it fit us, we might we might as well just stay in corporate because, you know, you can literally do your business any freaking way you want. And it's the moment that you stop listening to the loudest voices that you begin to hear your own inner voice saying, but I don't even want this. Where are the other people who also don't want this, so you have created a space for those people.

G: Yes, I like gathering them up as I go along and I think what's interesting is the point you pointed out about corporate. This is the thing, we replicate the pattern because it's a familiar pattern. Like, we don't have a boss telling us what to do, so we let a celebrity entrepreneur or some random person on the Internet now be our new boss. And like, I didn't leave my very well compensating, cushy job to just do this exact same thing. So I think so many people, like, they just need the permission and the support and to know, like, the thing you're thinking, totally reasonable and no, you don't have a mindset issue.

H: What a relief!

G: I mean, it's funny and I'm always very conscious with my clients of saying, like, I'm like, now, this is not for to say you have a mindset issue. But have you considered and they'll be like okay, this actually is a mindset issue. It's not a mindset issue in the traditional way right? And there's lots of times I will say to my clients, you know what, this is a topic for your therapist.

H: I gotta say, that's one of the reasons why I like Duped so much because you give us permission to own our critical thinking. When your brain is telling you, this sounds too good to be true, that's because it is, listen to that.

G: And I think the more we can kind of be, like, question it and just honestly give yourself the space to slow down and go, oh, that's interesting. A great example was a few weeks ago during the Black Friday, Cyber Monday thing, I was like, I needed this purse. I was lying in bed looking at I was like, alright, I'm gonna order this in the morning. I forgot about it for 4 days. I did not need the purse, but if you can kinda take the time. I was like, alright, we'll see if you really want it in the morning, oh, totally forgot about it.

H: That does not surprise me.

G: Yeah, then that's the way we buy courses and everything else out there.

H: Absolutely true. So if you want to stay intentionally small and thrive that way, you don't have to apologize to anyone. Check out the Staying Solo Squad because that's where your people are gonna be hanging out.