Getting paid to speak may be easier than you think. I made getting paid to speak one of my top goals and I turned to some expert podcasts to help me achieve it. One of those shows was Speaker Lab, hosted by my guest for this episode, Grant Baldwin.

It was a real treat for me last year to be a part of a special online class with Grant in Chris Ducker's Incubator program and have the opportunity to connect with someone who I had not only listened to many times but also read his book The Successful Speaker 3 times in succession and will probably return to it once again very soon.

Grant invited members of the group to message him directly with any questions they did not get to ask during the event. Not only did I get a fast reply, I got a short video saying hello, answering the query and accepting the offer to be a guest on this show which I had cheekily tagged on.

I got very excited about speaking to Grant and for me, it was a solidification of the material I have been learning from him and a great chance to take a specific look into the authority of being a public speaker and also a podcaster.

I hope you will enjoy this conversation with Grant as much as I did and also share my excitement that at some point in the coming months I will also be speaking with Chris Ducker on the show.

In this episode:

• How to decide what to speak about (for paid speaking)
• The silver lining for professional speakers from the pandemic
• How to find paying opportunities to speak
• The realities of a professional speaking business
• What are the best topics for earning money as a speaker?
• Grant's S.P.E.A.K. framework
• The 2 key tools you MUST have to be a paid speaker

Grant's own podcast is called The Speaker Lab and is well worth a listen. Grant's book The Successful Speaker is available in multiple formats, audio being my preference, and full of great strategy, tools and real talk about becoming a successful paid speaker. To find out for free how The Speaker Lab can help you develop a career as a paid speaker, visit https://thespeakerlab.com/apply

Grant's book recommendations are: The Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham and Rework by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

Remember to check out our friends at Brand Face by visiting LearnAboutBrandFace.com

Did you enjoy the show? Did you learn anything new or useful? If you did, then the best way to show your appreciation is by sharing the show to your online network. Tag me and I'll give you a shout out on an upcoming episode. Leave a review and I'll read it out on the show.

Of course, if you REALLY liked it, you're welcome to support the show financially too using the link below.

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Mentioned in this episode:

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Welcome to the show.

My name is Johnny Ball, this is Speaking Influence the show that delves into the

world of influence and persuasion to help you develop ethical influence and build

your authority, and to be able to become a powerfully, persuasive communicator

to help you grow your business.

Guests on the show have generally included experts from the world of influence

and persuasion and the people who are already out there in the world using

these skills and tools and doing it.

Today's guest is no exception to that.

And we are returning to some of the roots of this show really, which is based on a

desire to understand how important public speaking and presentation skills were

in terms of influence and persuasion.

Undoubtedly, they are critical and we've been aware that they have been since the

time of Aristotle who first wrote and study this in his writings about rhetoric.

And so we take a look today into the world of professional speaking

from somebody who is helping people all around the world to become professional

speakers, get paid for their speaking and to improve their speaking skills.

His name is Grant Baldwin.

I've been a fan of Grants for a long time, as someone who listens

to The Speaker Lab podcast of which grant is one of the hosts,

and also he is the author of a great book called The Successful Speaker,

which I have very much enjoyed and we do go on to talking about some.

One of the content of that book in today's episode.

I was lucky enough to be an event with grant not that long ago where i approached

grant and asked if he would be willing to become a guest on Speaking Influence

he agreed straight away not only did he do that he also helped me with an issue

that i was having and is such a nice guy so I know that he's a great person

to help all of us I think you'll enjoy the show as much as I did he's certainly

someone who we all have a lot to learn from I hope you will enjoy the show.

Welcome to Speaking Influence.

The show that helps you to master the psychology and application

of ethical influence and persuasion, in life and business.

With persuasive presentations and podcasting coach, Johnny Ball.

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It's more cost effective than most other similar platforms . Don't

pay for a multitude of services you have to then link up manually.

Get an online solution that does everything you need in one place.

Find the link in the show notes and try New Zenler as the all in one

solution for your business today.

Welcome to another episode of Speaking Influence.

And this time I am actually really excited to be joined by somebody who I have

listened to on his podcast for quite a while now, and also have really enjoyed

learning from him as well over time.

Very fortunate enough to connect at the end of last year.

And I was so excited, but he's agreed to come and be a guest on the show.

He is the host of the Speaker Lab podcast, and also the the writer, the

author of the book, The Successful Speaker that let me officially

welcome Grant Baldwin to the show.

Johnny.

Thanks for letting me hang out with you, man.

I've been really looking forward to speaking to you.

And I just know that I personally have learned so much from you in the time

that I've been listening to Speaker Lab.

And certainly when I got hold of The Successful Speaker that

I listened to it probably about three times in, in succession.

'cause I re there was so much value in there.

And there were so many things that I just really wanted to get, that it

was a very valuable resource and one that I will continue to refer to.

So I am very much looking forward to what we're going to talk about today.

The theme of this show is influence and persuasion.

I wonder who for you has been someone who you look up to, who you admire

for their influence and persuasion and for what they've done with it and why?

Yeah, there's a couple of people that come to mind.

One is a coach that I've worked with for a few years.

His name is Aaron Walker.

I live in the Nashville area here in Tennessee and he's he's

probably 20, 25 years older than me.

He's a successful entrepreneur.

He's also just a, an amazing husband, an amazing father.

So he's had a huge impact on me and just his own influence on

me in his life in my own life.

I know that there's a, several guys and friends of mine that we all look up to.

We admire Aaron.

Like that's the kind of guy that we want to be like whenever we grew up,

not because of anything that, you know, tactical that he's done in terms of

influence or persuasion, but by, in terms of like how he lives his life.

And so, he is definitely a great example of that.

Someone like a Michael Hyatt is another example of someone who just checks a

lot of boxes of, I'm not just like what they've done in business or in terms of

like their influence or persuasion just in terms of entrepreneurship, but just

who they are as a human being, who they are as a dad, as a husband as a, as just

a human like that, that certainly had a big influence and impact in my world.

Fantastic.

Some great answers there as well.

Now I've been a listener to Speaker Lab for some time, and one of the main

reasons why I've started listening to why I knew who you were long before I ever

encountered you in Chris Ducker's world,, which is where we actually got to connect.

And but one of the reasons why is because I was, I've been very

interested in public speaking.

And as far as this show goes, probably speaking is an integral

part of influence and persuasion.

It's so vital because if you want to be someone who is a leader, someone who

has great influence, you have to be able to present and speak well in public.

But I wonder for you, what first got you interested or

thinking about public speaking?

Yeah, I know that for a lot of people, public speaking is

one of the people's greatest fears.

I know it is certainly for my wife.

Anytime I've been speaking, she's like, don't, you dare bring me up on stage.

I don't want to talk in front of anybody, anything like that.

But for whatever reason, whenever even when I was young speaking was

one of those things that I look forward to like an in speech class.

I was like, I look forward to giving a speech.

I was still nervous and you still have the butterflies.

Right.

And that's normal and natural.

But I was just excited about the opportunity.

I remember even into college, the same sort of thing.

And so, I was pretty involved in my local church and I had a lot of had

a few opportunities to speak here and there maybe teach a Sunday school class.

And for whatever reason, it was just something that I gravitated

toward and something that I felt like this is something that is

appealing and interesting to me.

In college.

I actually worked for a guy who was a full-time speaker.

And so kinda got to see a little bit behind the scenes

of how does the business work?

How does he book gigs and travel and working with clients

and what does he speak about?

And like, how does that world work?

And so, I don't know, I just kind of, I've kind of been around it a little

bit growing up, but also recognize like, this is something I enjoy

doing and I wanted to do more of it.

Met a couple guys who were full-time speakers started stalking them

and harassing them like, Hey, how do I, how do I do what you do?

And eventually learned a couple of things and became a full-time

speaker and was doing over the course of a couple of years.

I was doing 60, 70 gigs a year.

And it was awesome.

So speaking is just one of those things that I just I'm

really, really passionate about.

I really, really enjoy, you know, there's, there's a lot of different forms of media,

whether that's a a book or a podcast or a blog or whatever it may be or social

media, but there's nothing that compares.

Especially like an in-person event.

And I know that times are weird with the pandemic, but being together with

other human beings in a shared space, sharing an experience in a moment via

speaker is really, really powerful.

So, yeah.

I'm a huge, huge fan of, of all things speaking.

One of the reasons why I particularly enjoy a lot of your

content and what you do is because of.

One of the things that you are very focused on is helping people to move

into the world are becoming paid public speakers, paid professional speakers.

I wonder if you could tell us a bit about how you got started, like the

first time you got paid for speaking?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I had a, like I said, I had a few free opportunities here and there, but

the first like legit paid gig that I did where they hired Grant to come speak.

I remember it was this, I was living in Missouri, here in the states at the time.

I got hired to speak at this.

It was this four H event, which four H is like a, it's like a youth conference or a

youth organization for students that are interested in agriculture and farming.

I didn't come from a farming land.

I didn't know anything about that, but I knew it was an opportunity

to speak and talk about leadership.

And so went to the event and I spent so much time practicing

and preparing and rehearsing.

I remember, you know, the night before and the hotel room, just going over

my talk time and time and time again.

And then the morning going over the talk time and time and time again.

And so get up, deliver the presentation and spoke for about 30, 45 minutes in

front of a group, about 300 students or so high school students, mostly.

And, and it just, I finished up and they gave me a standing ovation

and I was just like, man, that, that went really, really well.

And it's just kinda like the bug bit you.

And just like, I got to do more of those.

What do I do from here?

How do I book more of these?

How do I find more of these opportunities?

And as part of it was certainly like the impact that I was

able to make as a speaker.

Also afterwards the event planner came up and it was like,

Hey, you did an amazing job.

Hands me, my check.

The check was for a thousand dollars, which was just like

a billion dollars in my mind.

Like, I can't believe I just, they just paid me a thousand dollars to stand

in front of his audience and speak.

And it was just like a really, really powerful moment of

this was really rewarding.

This was really fulfilling.

It just checks so many boxes of what I wanted to do and also be

able to make a good living at it.

And so, yeah, that's that's really what.

I guess that was some of the initial momentum, initial excitement

of being a speaker came from.

And are the things that you talk about professionally now, the same

or similar to the things you talked about when you first got started or

has there been an evolution there?

Yeah, there's certainly been an evolution, you know, and I

think that there are certainly some speakers who they find what that one

thing is that they want to speak about.

And they speak about that for, you know, the good majority of their career.

I think that can also be a bit of a limiting belief.

And this is where some, especially early on in the speakers career, they can get

a little bit hung up of feeling like

okay.

I need to get clear on who I speak to, what problem that I solve,

but we feel like we're, we're making like a permanent decision.

Like, okay, if I speak about this and that's the only thing I can ever speak

about forever and ever, and ever, and no, that's not necessarily the case.

Like there's a variety of speakers who will may speak on this for a period

of time for maybe a couple of years.

And then maybe it kind of evolves into a kind of a tangental type

of topic and maybe they go a bit of a different direction.

And that's relatively normal.

So whenever you're figuring out what it is that you might speak on, don't

feel like, again, you're making this permanent decision that you

can never, never, ever, ever change.

We're picking a starting point just to start to build some momentum.

And then again, if you need to pivot or adjust down the road, that's totally fine.

And that tends to be the case with with a lot of speakers.

And that was certainly the case in my own journey.

Yeah,

Would now be a good time for people to be thinking about this or whatever.

I'd like to become a paid speaker, but I'm also aware that we've had a pandemic

and I've heard from other speakers that speaking opportunities dried up and

this all changed in the speaking world.

Is it still a good career for people to move into?

And is this still a good time to do that?

Yeah, I know this sounds weird, but it is absolutely I think the

best possible time for speakers right now.

And here's what I mean by that is pre pandemic.

Really the only opportunities that existed were live in-person events.

Right.

And then the pandemic hits and, you know, for certainly a few weeks,

a few months there at the whole world is going like, holy cow.

We're like, what is going on?

And I know for me personally, Man, I'm watching all these speakers schedules,

just getting decimated and like this, you know, this is affecting the world,

but certainly the speaking industry, but what happened then that we began to see

is that then you see all these virtual opportunities that began to pop up.

And so prior to the pandemic, virtual just wasn't really a thing.

Like it wasn't, it was something that, a few speakers would do a few event planners

to do, but it just wasn't something that people really took seriously.

And then what happened is the pandemic hits and it's becomes the only option.

Virtual is the only game in town, right?

And so virtual takes off.

And now all of a sudden you have a lot of people who see the viability of it

and realize like, Hey, there's a there's for event planners and for speakers,

there's real opportunities for virtual.

But what we've seen now, as we are coming up on around two years, post

the real start of the pandemic is that now that live events continue to come

back more and more, it doesn't mean that they are replacing virtual events.

It means that now.

Both opportunities that exist.

And so there's a lot of events that didn't previously have a

live event that we'll do virtual.

There's a lot of live events that are coming back and doing live events.

There's a lot more opportunities to do hybrid events where maybe there

you're speaking live, but there's also a virtual component to it.

There's also opportunities for speakers to combine them, meaning that Hey, let me.

Speak and do kind of a kickoff keynote.

And then let me do a zoom virtual presentation for three months follow up.

That's going to be for a bigger fee than had I just done the

live in-person to begin with.

So again, if anything, I think there are way more opportunities

that have ever been available.

Because of the pandemic.

And so again, it's kind of one of the silver linings that

has come out of all of this.

Is there a major opportunities for speakers who want to speak virtually,

major opportunities for speakers who want to speak live and major opportunities for

speakers who want to do a combination?

Yeah, I love that.

What you do in your speaking lab work is helping people find those opportunities

and create them for themselves as well.

So, Who really is a professional speaking career for, is there a

particular kind of person that would be thinking about this, or really could

anybody go into professional speaking?

Yeah.

One of the neat things about professional speaking is it's not

necessarily a one size fits all.

So for example, when I was speaking full-time I was doing around 60 or 70 paid

gigs a year has a lot of travel has gone.

And some people who may be watching or listening may think that sounds awesome.

I would absolutely love to do that.

And other people like, ah, it sounds miserable, no chance

that I'm interested in that.

And so again, it's not that you have to do, this certain number.

I know speakers who do a lot more than that and it's because

do a lot less than that.

So what's great is though you get to decide how speaking

fits into your world, right?

So maybe personally, you just say, Hey, I'm at a stage in life

where I can't really travel.

I don't want to go that far.

You know, I only want to do live in person gigs where I, I don't, I'm not

gone from the house more than one night, or I'm not gone from the house at all.

Or maybe I only want to do virtual gigs.

You can choose to do that.

Or other speakers who say I want to do only virtual gigs or

only want to do in person gigs.

Like it's you can, it's kind of a buffet that you get to choose.

What makes sense for you?

There's no, there's not.

There's not any rhyme or reason that you have to do it this way,

or you have to do it that way.

Like I can point to 10 different speakers and they're all doing it

in a way that makes sense for them.

So it all works.

You just got to determine what makes sense for you.

So don't feel like, Hey, in order to be a speaker, in order to get

started, I got to be committed to doing a ton of events a year.

You don't like you figure out kind of what makes sense for you, how

you want to go about doing that.

And if you're looking for help and support, then we can absolutely help you.

Yeah.

And it's an important thing for you to recognize as well that there

are lots of opportunities out there and in all sorts of different ways.

So some people who may have more of a scientific background and style of

speaking, there will be opportunities for you as well as people who have maybe a

more motivational and things like that.

So I think that's a great way to, to frame.

So in the ways that you help people, how does somebody know if they are good enough

to be a professional speaker at what are the things that make somebody at least in

your opinion, a good professional speaker?

Yeah.

Well, I think it's important to remember that every speaker starts from zero,

meaning that the first time anybody speaks, nobody knows what they're doing.

Right.

And so it's okay.

Don't feel like that you have to be this, you know, Tony Robbins or

Brene Brown or whoever, like out of the gate, like that's not realistic.

That's putting unfair and unrealistic expectations on yourself.

So realize at the beginning, you're probably going to suck.

Like, I, I look back on some of my early talks and presentations,

like, I don't know what I was doing and you're just, you're just trying

and you're just figuring it out.

And so the it's kinda like the it's kinda like learning to do anything,

you know, if you wanted to podcast, the first couple of podcasts, episodes

are probably not as good as the podcasts that you're you're doing now.

If you wanted to write, you know, your first couple of blog posts are not going

to be as good as a blog post years later.

So you gotta at least take a little bit of pressure off yourself, a feeling like

I have to be amazing out of the gate.

Like you're probably not going to be, but you're certainly not going

to improve and get better if you try it once and then just give up.

Right.

And again, that's the same with anything, whether you want to be a

writer or a singer or drawer or a chef or whatever, you have to continue to

put in the reps to get better at that.

And the other thing was.

Is that speaking is kind of one of these unique things where I'll give

an example, like I enjoy playing golf.

And so I don't need anybody else in order for me to go play golf or

to practice getting better at golf.

Now I still got to put the reps in, but it's not dependent on anybody else.

I got to get up and do the work.

Right.

And so when when, whenever it comes to speaking though, it's

a bit different because you're.

You're dependent on an audience, right?

And so you're looking for opportunities where you can get some at-bats

and you can get some practice.

And so even doing something like this, you and I just having a conversation here

for our, for a podcast, for a recording, you know, it gives practice to, okay,

maybe this is some content that I would share in a speech or a presentation.

And so maybe there's a story that I've been practicing or working on that maybe.

Throw in here on a podcast and see how it works.

Maybe I want to do a Facebook live or a YouTube video that just gives me some

reps that gives me some practice that just helps me to get comfortable and

confident with my material, with my content, to be able to present that.

And so, it's a big thing I would say is just give yourself a little bit

of grace and a little bit of patience early on to interpret whatever putting

together your presentation or your talk.

It's not going to be amazing right out of the gate.

And also say like, that's one of the things that we help speakers with inside

the speaker lab is we have a training program where we focus on stagecraft.

Meaning like, let's say, you've got a rough idea of your talk and you're

trying to figure out is this good?

So we want to work with you not only on the talk itself and make sure that

it's polished and ready, but also make sure in terms of how you deliver it.

If you have an amazing talk.

That, that you drop the ball in terms of your presentation.

It doesn't do anything.

And if you're amazing on stage, but you don't have anything to talk about again

you're shooting yourself in the foot.

And so we want to make sure that we help put both of those things together so that

you have an amazing presentation and you deliver it in a masterful way because

your best marketing tool is a great talk.

And so we want to make sure that whenever you step up on stage

to deliver that you're prepared and you can do a great job.

Yeah.

Now I know from my podcasting experience and probably from my public speaking

experience as well, so far that.

A lot of what people see is not all the work that goes into this.

So there's a lot more that happens.

So I wonder from the perspective of being a professional speaker, as a

percentage of how much the actual work is, how much is a percentage of the

actual stage time of being a professional speaker and how much of it is around

the admin, the bookings, the planning, and other things?

Yeah, Johnny.

That's a really great question because one thing I think that is, again, kind

of a misconception is people assume like, okay, I want to be a speaker.

Therefore, the majority of my time, I just want to spend on stage

and like, The icing on the cake.

That's the thing that we want to do, but in order to be able to do that, you

have to recognize that you're not just a speaker, but you're running a business.

And speaking happens to be the thing that you are delivering.

And so a way to think about this as there's a good book by

Michael Gerber called the E-Myth.

And he talks about the example or the analogy of running a bakery.

And so he said there's two sides of the bakery.

There's the baked goods being the actual baker.

Like I, making the bread or cupcakes or cakes or whatever it is that

you're going to bake, you have to be really, really good at that.

But then.

The business of actually running the bakery right.

Of making sure that you're keeping your costs of cost of goods down, that

you're marketing it well, that you're bringing traffic into the door that

your labor costs stay under control.

Right?

So there's being a baker and there's running a bakery and

there's two different things.

And the same thing is true for being a speaker.

There's being a speaker being on stage and delivering a message, which

is kind of the fun, glamorous, sexy, shiny part that people want to do.

And then there's running a speaking business and ultimately

you have to be able to wear

both hats or be able to find someone who can help you on the speaking business.

Because a lot of times speakers are like, well, I don't want to sell myself.

I don't want to market myself.

I just want to get up there on stage and speak.

I was like, I'm sure you do.

But like you got to do the work from running a speaking business from

doing the sales, doing the marketing.

That's the core thing that we teach and we show people how to

do is exactly what steps to take.

You mentioned the book, the successful speaker This is where we talk

about exactly what you should do.

Exactly what you should say, how you reach out, how you follow up.

This is the business of being a speaker, but you have to be able to do both, right?

Because the reality is the majority of your time is going to be

spent on the business side of it.

And so, for example, I remember early on, in my own speaking business, I

had a buddy said, you have to, you have to fall in love with the process.

The result is what we're going for the results of standing on a stage,

but you have to fall in love with the process of doing the work that gives

you the opportunity to stand on stage.

But if you're not willing to do the work and you're just looking for shortcuts

that that's never going to work.

So you have to be willing to do the work to earn the opportunity to stand on.

Yeah, it's interesting in my life.

I've encountered some people on the way Who don't feel that they ever

need to prepare for presentations and public speaking things.

And they say that they do perfectly fine with that.

And to some extent I can believe that they probably do, but I also feel that

they may be robbing themselves of the opportunity to go to an even higher level.

And if they can do all of this really well without practice and all the

background stuff that go all the other work that goes into this.

How much better could they be with that?

Would you agree with that?

Or do you think that there are just some people who actually do it better on

the fly?

Yeah, I thousand percent agree with you.

And so it's kind of like, you know, if you think about like a symphony playing

versus a jazz band playing, right?

So a symphony has their sheet music.

They're going to, we know exactly what note we are playing at each time.

And everyone has to play their part.

And it's very, very precise and jazz is more just kind of

like free flowing and riffing.

Right.

And I think a good speaker.

A bit of a combination of both.

Right?

So the idea of, like you're saying Johnny, that you know, someone just scribbles down

a couple of thoughts in a napkin and I'm going to just hop up on stage and wing it.

I do not endorse that whatsoever.

And I think that that's lazy.

And I think that that's that if you want to be a professional top-notch speaker.

The best speakers on the planet.

They don't just like hop up on stage and like, I'm just going to make this up.

And hopefully it all works out.

They do not do that.

They spend hours and hours and hours behind the scenes, practicing

rehearsing, going over things, thinking about word choices, thinking

about the sentences, 10 words long.

How do I get it down to seven words long?

And does this make sense?

Maybe I should move this story here instead of here.

Or maybe I should cut this and like really there's a lot of meticulous

thought and detail that goes into it.

Now you see that speaker or you see for a, another good example is comedians.

You see a comedian up on stage.

And you think, oh, they're just funny.

They're just, you know, telling some jokes, but no, no.

Like every word is carefully considered and it looks like they're just

doing it off the top of their head.

They make it look effortless, but it's because they've spent so much

time behind the scenes practicing and rehearsing and crafting.

And so again, you know, if you just want to like, ah, just, you know, I'm, I'm

speaking a few things here and there and you're not taking it totally seriously.

That's fine.

And if you want to treat it like an amateur, that's fine, but

don't expect professional results.

Don't expect to be paid and paid well and paid consistently.

If you're just going to go through the motions because an audience can tell event

planners can tell if you are prepared, polished professional speaker, or if

you're someone who's just like, ah, it's just kind of like fun to make it up again.

There's still, like I said, like an element of jazz of maybe, you know,

you kind of throw something out there that works, you know, here's like a

random story I thought of, or here's a little anecdote or here's the.

Punchline that I thought I'd try.

And it worked really, really, really well, like awesome.

I want to make a note of that to keep doing that in the future.

So you may have a point or two where you're kind of like I'm going to riff for

about 30 seconds or something, or here's a funny thing that happened this morning,

you know, that I wouldn't normally share or here I'm kind of in the moment and

something, maybe something happened in the room that I want to share with, with some

current event that you want to talk about.

That's all fine, but don't come into the, with the idea of, I'm just gonna,

you know, throw it together and string together a couple of thoughts and hope

it all just magically come together into a good Polish cohesive presentation.

Cause that, that just doesn't work.

Yeah.

I think that sort of speaks to the idea of the thinking about probably speaking

as just speaking as just getting up onto a platform, live virtual, whatever, and

just speaking rather than the whole craft of it, as you really talk about all the

stuff that goes into it, or the planning or the stories that get well-crafted

and chosen for particular reasons and worked on and movement that goes into it.

And why that's there.

W how you stopping it and use the right metaphors to use and where to

maybe inject some humor and having enough flexibility around that,

to be able to know what to do.

And again, some of that comes with experience, but yeah, I really liked that.

I w we, we agree on that.

We definitely agree on that.

I think it's very valuable to do that kind of work.

What are your opinions on why public speaking and professional speaking is

so important in terms of leadership and authority, personal authority?

Yeah.

If you look at just studies and surveys about what are some of the most.

Respected professions.

A public speaker is up there really, really, really high.

Even like up with a, if I remember correctly, it was like w the top

couple with like brain surgeon.

Right.

So if you hear someone's a brain surgeon, it's like, whoa.

Wow.

Okay.

Like, this is like, this is someone who has a very prestigious

and admirable profession.

And it's very similar.

Whenever it comes to speaking someone who is as well-polished, who is eloquent,

who chooses the words carefully, who has that knows how to present well, like

they, they command a certain level of respect and influence and authority.

And so whether or not you want to be a professional speaker, if you want to stand

on stage and do that, that's awesome.

But if you're just like, I don't want to do that, but I have to give presentations

for my work or for my company, or even in conversations or in small groups where

I might meet people or teach a Sunday school class or whatever it may be, even

on a small scale, being able to eloquently present your thoughts or your ideas and

putting together in a cohesive flowing manner makes a big, big difference.

And so yeah, whether or not you want to be a professional public speaker, don't just

cast aside of like, you know, I don't want to be a professional speaker, therefore

I don't need to know how to present.

No, you still want to know how to, again, be able to articulate an idea or

a thought and be able to present an idea.

So, yeah, there's absolutely a lot of I think recognition and again, kind of

prestige that comes with and kind of cache that comes with being a speaker.

Are there any particular topics or themes in speaking in that are just

a very easy sell as a public speaker.

Like Yeah.

People are always going to be looking for these kinds of topics and

conversely, some that people should just really stay well away from?

Yeah.

So I would say there's kind of a balance there because there's a balance between

what you're interested in, what you're passionate about, what your experiences,

what you want to speak about and what it is that organizations groups

actually hire speakers to talk about.

And there's also, there's gonna be some type of overlap there, but there's also

going to be it kind of depends what your goals and ambitions are with speaking.

Meaning like, let's say you were really, really passionate about.

I'll give you an example, like dog training, for example.

Okay.

And you said, okay, I want to do, I love dogs.

I love animals.

And I'm a great dog trainer.

And I want to do a ton of presentations.

I don't want to charge $20,000 a talk and I want to do 50 presentations a year.

And like, are there opportunities to speak about dogs training?

Yes, I would say so are there hundreds of opportunities?

I doubt it, but at the same time, I'd also say I've been in the speaking industry

a long time, and I'm still surprised by some of the opportunities that exist.

And so I'll give you an example, this like this, take this dog training.

We had a client we worked with a few years ago, who was a veterinarian.

She was a full-time veterinarian, worked with animals.

And she was following our system, following the process that we teach.

And so she reached out and she said, Hey, I just booked my first gig first paid gig.

I was like, that's awesome.

Tell me about it.

And she said they were a, she lived in Connecticut and they were flying her

to Las Vegas to do this presentation.

They're paying her $5,000 to speak at a pet sitting conference.

A pet sitting conference.

So like people who want to be pet sitters who keep an eye on pets

while well, family members or friends are away, they paid her $5,000 to

speak at a pet sitting conference.

So she came to me before and said, Hey, I want to speak at pet sitting conferences.

Is that a thing?

I'd be like, I don't think so, but I'm also not in the

pet industry, so I don't know.

And so here's an opportunity for her to go and speak at something that,

again, I don't claim, like I know every possible event or opportunity.

So again, you have to find what that overlap is between what you're interested

in, what you're passionate about, what it is that organizations and groups are

actually hiring speakers to talk about.

Which is the best one to start with your passions or what is actually

being what is actually being looked for and working out what you could do or what

you're most passionate about from that?.

I think you start with what your, what, you know, what your experience

is because the other thing is sometimes there there's going to be an intersection

there of what you're passionate about, what, you know, what you're knowledgeable

on with opportunities that exist.

And I'll give you give an example of this.

So I remember several years ago, I won.

When I was speaking in the education space.

I did a lot with high schools and colleges.

And so a topic I was interested in topic I was passionate about was personal finance.

I knew for my wife and I, how much like really paying attention to our finances

and having a budget and living on less than we made and saving, just doing some

of these basic things like doing these things made a big difference for us.

So it was kind of like, man, if I could speak to teenagers on this

and they understood this at a young age, like how much more of an impact

it can make for their own financial wellbeing for years to come.

And so it was going from school to school, to school.

Clients that I'd worked with before and said, Hey, let me come teach

your students about personal finance.

And I found like over and over that they like principals and administrators would

say, yeah, we like this is an important topic, but you know, they typically

didn't hire speakers to talk about that.

And so I had to figure out, okay, what's this overlap between what I'm

interested in, personal finance and speaking to students versus what it

is that they're actually looking for.

And so in this case one of the things that they hired speakers a lot to talk about

was helping students make a transition.

From high school into college university and the real world and beyond.

Right.

And so I said, I can speak on that.

And one of the things that I can talk about within that is helping students

with their personal finances, right?

Let me help your students make a transition.

And one of the things, not the whole thing, but one of the things we're

going to talk about is personal finance.

So it's able to present something that I'm interested in presenting

but put it in kind of wrapping paper that they're looking for.

Now, this.

A bait and switch of saying like, oh, you want me to talk about this,

but I'm going to show up and talk about something totally different.

No, no, no, no, not at all.

But saying, what is it that you're, that you're looking for help with?

What are the problems, the challenges, the needs, the opportunities that you

have that I could potentially speak on.

What's my skillset.

What's my experience.

What's what's in my world that I can blend the two and find something that's that

I know that I can present confidently on this, a win for your audience, but

at the same time checks the box of what it is that you're looking for.

Yeah.

Is it a good idea?

And to start out with an idea of the kind of audiences and stages

you want to be speaking to?

Yeah, absolutely.

Because one of the dangers that a lot of speakers make, or one of the

mistakes, a lot of speakers make is whenever it comes to speaking,

as we, we just enjoy speaking.

Speaking is fun, Johnny, you and I enjoy the idea of speaking.

We enjoy speaking.

We enjoy being in front of a crowd.

And so we would speak to anybody and everybody who will listen.

Right.

And even people who don't want to listen, we're like, I'm in for it.

We're just looking for opportunities.

We like it.

Right.

And so what that means is.

We end up really broadening the scope of who do I speak to?

I speak to humans, speak to people, my messages for everybody.

And what do I talk about?

I don't know.

What do you want me to talk about?

I can talk about, you know, leadership or motivation or speaking, or talk

about customer service or talk about marriage or parenting or

basketball or golf or whatever.

And like, we started to just.

All these different topics on all these different things for

all these different people.

And what you want to be is you want to be a specialist, not a generalist.

And so think through like, again, thinking about like more of like a

sniper rifle versus a shotgun that you want to target one specific

audience solve one specific problem.

So the way we like to talk about this and think of.

Is you want to be the steakhouse and not the buffet, the

steakhouse and not the buffet.

What we mean by that is Johnny.

If you and I were looking for a good steak, like we have a choice, we could

go to a buffet where steak is one of a hundred different things that

they offer and they're all mediocre.

Or we could go to a steak house where they do one thing, but they do

that one thing really, really well.

All right.

So they don't do lasagne.

They don't do tacos, they don't do pasta.

They do steak.

And they're really, really good at that.

And so, again, it's counterintuitive because you think, well, if

you're a buffet, then you appeal to more people you do, perhaps.

But all of those things that you're trying to serve are mediocre versus

saying, I do this one thing and I do this one thing really, really, really well.

Also look at it just from a financial standpoint, from a fee

standpoint, if you're looking for.

It's probably going to cost more at a steakhouse.

In addition to being a better product, then it's going to cost at a buffet.

And that means as a speaker, the more specific, the more narrow, the more

targeted you are and who you speak to, and the problem that you solve for that

audience, the higher your fees are going to be versus I'm kind of this generalist

that speaks on a bunch of different things to a bunch of different people.

So focus more narrow than broad.

Yeah, so it's good advice.

And I know that if people are thinking about looking to get paid to speak,

as they're not already on that track, that the book is definitely going

to help them and tuning into your podcast as well, because you regularly

speak to professional speakers about the industry and their journeys.

And there's a lot of valuable things to learn from that.

could you maybe nut shell or give a few points as to what are some of the

things that people should be looking at doing action wise if they are looking

to get paid for some speaking work and they're not already doing that?

Yeah.

So like that the core thing of what we teach and even inside the

book that walks through is what we call the speak framework, right?

The speaker success roadmap.

And so that makes the acronym speak SPEA K.

And so I'll just kind of quickly go through it and we

can dig in wherever you want.

And I know you mentioned that you've listened to the book and read the

book and listened to the podcast.

And you're, you're probably familiar with this.

The S is for select a problem to solve.

And we've kind of touched on this, but you just have to be

clear on who do you speak to?

What's the problem that you solve for that audience?

The next part, the P is to prepare your talk, be really, really clear

on what's the solution that you are providing to that audience.

The next part is the E to establish yourself as the expert.

And there's two key tools that you need here.

You need.

Website and you need a demo video.

So without a website, without a demo video, it's just hard for people to have

a lot of confidence or trust in you to take you seriously, to want to book you.

You gotta remember that event.

Are in the risk mitigation business, right?

So whenever they hire you to put you up on stage, hand you

a microphone to talk to their audience, they're taking a huge risk.

I think this person's going to do a good job.

I don't think they're going to embarrass me.

I don't think they're going to say anything inappropriate.

I think they're going to, hopefully they're going to

make me look good to my boss.

Like it's a big risk.

And so they, they need to see a website, a demo video, kind of a

sample there that gives them some confidence and comfort in hiring you.

The next part of the process A is to acquire paid speaking gigs.

Now this is the part that oftentimes people want to fast

forward to, like, I mean, just tell me how to book gigs, right?

But you gotta be clear on the S who do you speak to?

What's the problem that you solve?

You gotta be clear on the P what's.

How do you providing a solution to that?

You gotta be clear on the E having that website, having

that demo video, and then the.

Beginning to reach out.

And again, the system processes that we teach on being proactive to reach

out to potential event planners on building relationships, I'm building a

pipeline and following up and having like basic systems and processes in place.

And the last part of the process is K, know when to scale.

Meaning that a lot of people who are listening right now are interested

in speaking, but also interested in perhaps coaching or consulting or

doing a podcast or doing a course or doing any number of things.

And so we always tell speakers, like you can do all the things,

but you can't do them all at once.

Meaning something's going to come for something's going to come last.

And when we talked about earlier, And that some speakers speak a hundred times

a year and some speak five times a year.

You get to decide how speaking fits into your world.

I'll give you an example.

There are some speakers who they, like, I know one speaker who does like 50,

60 keynotes a year, and he's like, I don't want to do any workshops.

I don't want to do any books.

I don't want to do any breakouts.

I don't want to do anything.

All I want to do is this one specific type of presentation.

And some speakers are like, all I want to do is consulting, but if I got to do,

you know, five or 10 gigs to help kind of get my name out there and to build some

relationships and to kind of demonstrate my expertise, like, okay, I'll do that.

But the core thing that I want to do is actually do consulting

or coaching or do a book.

And so you, again, there's no right or wrong methodology or reasons.

Why you do this versus that, but recognizing that you can't do it all.

So it'd be really, really clear on what are the things that

make the most sense for you.

So again, kind of a, again, as a high-level overview, but that speak

framework the SPEAK like that's the core of what we teach in terms of how

do you follow a systematic plan to consistently get booked and paid to speak?

Great.

I appreciate you sharing that with us and everything for people who are

tuning in that they should definitely go and check out the book because

that was all laid out for them.

And I think you go into enough detail in there to give people

the tools to start moving forward.

What I do want to get to with the time that we have is

talking about podcasts because,

you have a podcast that I've been listening to for a while, and I've

been podcasting for a few years.

Do you think that podcasting is also a great platform for speakers

for getting the message out?

Or do you have thoughts around it becoming maybe too crowded as a space

or not having as much opportunity as perhaps a few years back?

Yeah, I think you know, I think a lot of times when people think

about whatever trend there is that exist or medium or platform that exists, you

know, whether it's YouTube or whether it is speaking you know, speaking is

one of those things that's been around for longer than you or I have been

alive, won't be around long after us.

So, and POS podcasting has been around for years and years and years.

I've been podcasting for I think eight years at the time.

And there's still like a lot of people that who may not be

familiar with the podcast who may not actively listen to podcasts.

And so sometimes, you know, you and I are this close to it

because we, we host podcasts.

We listen to podcasts, but there are still ample opportunities to to host a podcast.

And I have another friend who And in fact I mentioned him earlier, Aaron

Walker, who's here in Nashville.

He does not host his own podcast, but he has really built a successful

business around masterminds by being a guest on other people's podcasts.

So podcasting can also be a great way for lead generation because.

Do you think about, you know, we've been talking at this point for about 35 minutes

and I don't know about you, but if someone sent me a blog post that was 35 minutes,

there's no chance I'm going to read that, but I might listen to a podcast.

And just by hearing our voices, hearing you and I interacting, you start to

kind of develop a an affinity and, and rapport with the host or the guest.

And I'm like, oh, well I want to learn more about them.

I want to look into what they do or they, I resonate with that person.

And so there, there are certainly like just hearing people's

voices or seeing us on camera.

Like you build trust, you build connection with people via podcasts that may be

harder to do via a book or via a blog or via some form of other mediums.

So, yeah, podcasting is not only a very powerful tool for speakers.

It's still a very effective tool that is certainly readily

available and accessible today.

Yeah, I love teaching about podcasts.

And it's one of the main things that I talk about as well.

And particularly in relation to, to influence and persuasion, I do think

there is a really big opportunity for people that as you say, promote

themselves on other people's podcasts.

What do you think are the opportunities for people starting podcasts?

Is that a good thing for people to do in this part of their speaking career?

Yeah, absolutely.

Again, I think you have to be really, really clear about why you're going

to do a podcast and what's the problem that you're gonna solve.

Who's your audience, like, be clear on a couple of those simple things.

I'd also be really clear about how, how, what your goals are with podcasting,

if you're anticipating or hoping that it leads to speaking engagements.

Okay.

So let me give you an example.

I used to well, I host a podcast now called the speaker lab podcast.

And like you mentioned, we've got at this point close to 400 episodes or

do a weekly episode just talking about anything and everything related to to

speaking and the speaking industry.

Right.

And so, I don't necessarily get a ton of speaking inquiries out of

that because I'm, the podcast is not for of implanters it's for speakers.

Right?

Whereas I have a friend of mine who he used to host a podcast about

mobile marketing and using text messaging and a marketing on phones.

And this was several years ago when mobile marketing was still starting to

catch catch fire and become like a bigger thing.

And he would get invited regularly because to speak because he would have,

you know, people who were the head of mobile marketing at some company or

organization who are listening, learning to him or learning from his guests and

say, Hey, can you come teach my team?

Or can you speak at our event?

Or can you do some coaching or consulting with us?

And so you want to remember that when you're putting together a

podcast, What are the goals of the podcast and are the people that

would be listening to that podcast?

Is that going to lead to the goals that you have?

And so you just have to be aware like podcasting is great, but you just gotta

be clear on like, why you're doing it and what it is that you're hoping to, that

it produces for you versus just like, oh, I think it'd be fun to do a podcast.

Like if you just wanna do a podcast and do a podcast, that's fine.

There's nothing wrong with that.

But if you're like, nah, this is going to help me grow my business.

Okay.

But how, like, what are you hoping happens that leads to it growing your business?

The other thing that I would say is some people think, well, I

wanna, you know, I want to make money or monetize my expertise.

And so I'm going to host a podcast and you know, I don't know what your

thoughts are, Johnny, but podcasting is not a great way to make money.

And,

Not the moment.

No, not at all.

And like, unless you're in the top 1% where you have massive, massive reach

and downloads, in which case they're, you know, they're making a lot from ads.

Like we don't run any ads on, on our podcast, the way that

we use the podcast personally.

Is one selfishly, it's a great way to connect with people.

And there are people that I'll reach out to that probably wouldn't give

me the time of day normally, cause they're not because they're bad people.

They're just busy and have a lot going on, but are interested

in doing a podcast interview.

So it helps me to connect with people, but too just helps us to, again, build

connection rapport with an audience who may, like you said, John, You've

listened to a bunch of episodes.

Are you like, man, I have pretty good idea who Grant is and whether I can trust

this guy or like this guy, or be like, this guy knows what he's talking about.

And so then people, when we offer our programs or training programs or a book

or whatever it is, you know, people are a lot more comfortable and confident

going like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to invest in this thing or that thing.

Because again, I built that, that, that connection.

With Grant through the podcast, hearing his voice, listening to him,

talk about the speaking industry.

So, so for us, we don't make any money.

We don't make a dime directly from the podcast, but indirectly it can

certainly generate a lot of revenue.

Yeah I'm definitely a big believer in podcast being a great tool for building

relationships, not just with guests, but with potential audience as well.

And being able to hope to have that as a lead, if you're targeting the

Right kind of audience with your show as have that as a lead into other

things as well, potentially for you.

I think I won a very few.

I know the very few podcasts has make money from the show.

And you know, I do not have a sponsor.

I make some money from podcasting, but it's taken a long time to get there.

If anyone's looking to make money quickly, I typically wouldn't say start a podcast

unless you have a very clear plan and you really know what you're doing then.

No, I definitely wouldn't do that.

I do want to ask you before, before we wrap things up for your own

influence and persuasion superpower, what is your greatest skill or super

power in influence and persuasion?

Yeah, I think one thing that I've done a good job with over time

is building relationships with people.

And so whether people are meeting, you know, virtually or people online being

really, really intentional about building relationships, building my network And

like having a genuine interest in people.

And so I think that that is something that has made a big difference for

me and speaking certainly a part of that in terms of having conversations

with people of being interested in and asking good questions, asking follow

up questions of circling back with them, if keeping in touch with them.

And so building good relationships, building a strong network has

certainly helped build my own, influence and persuasion and

personally and professionally.

Fantastic.

Now I will be including links to the Speaker Lab podcast and to your

Successful Speaker book into the show notes for people's are, but I know

you also have courses and programs that people can come and check out.

So what's the best way for people to find out more.

Yeah.

If you want to schedule a call with our team, and if everything that,

we've kind of been covering and talking about here today with Johnny, if any

of that resonates with you and like, Hey, I want to learn more about that.

And maybe, you know exactly who you want to speak to, or maybe

you're like as so kind of fuzzy.

And I'm trying to figure that out, or maybe you've done a few free gigs

here and there, or maybe you've been paid once or twice and just going

like, ah, I'd love to do more of it.

I'd love to get paid.

I just, I just don't know what to do next.

And that's exactly where I was many years ago of going.

I have the potential.

Like, I feel like I can do this.

I just don't have the plan.

So I had the potential, but I need the plan.

And so if that is that resonates with you and kind of where you're at of

like, I enjoy speaking, I love doing it.

I want to do more of it.

I just, I don't know what to do from here.

I just need someone to tell me or show me, then we'd love to talk with you again.

I go to the speaker lab.com/apply the speaker lab.com/apply.

Schedule a free call with one of our team members.

And we'd be happy to chat with you and understanding what your goals

are as a speaker and what you want to do and how we can help you.

Fantastic.

Well, that will be in the show notes for anyone who wants to

go and check that out as well.

Now, aside from your own book, which I do highly recommend as I've listened

to it multiple times on audiobook, what books would you recommend?

Like books that may be relate to speaking or influence or persuasion or just

books they've had a big impact on you.

You give us one or two book recommendations that you think

people should go and check.

Yeah.

Let me scan my bookshelves here.

You know, a book I read just recently is called The Road Less Stupid.

The road less stupid.

Keith Cunningham,

Keith Cunningham.

Yup.

Yup.

Short bite-size chapters and kind of bounce around, skip round, choose

your own adventure sort of book.

I was a really good book and that was well, put together in terms of like each

chapter ended up with a long list of questions for you to be thinking about

and kind of pondering and reflect on.

And so I really liked like a practical book like that.

Another good example is a book called Rework by Jason Fried

and David Hanson, something like

I can't remember, but

yeah, it's a while back since I read

Yeah,

the guys, the guys from base camp.

And so that's another, like really, really practical one kind of a similar

format to the road, less stupid where it's kind of some short bite-sized

chapters, probably, I don't know, 40, 50 chapters and kind of their thoughts

and various parts of, of business.

And so, yeah, that's another good one that I'd definitely would recommend.

Thank you.

Well, not going to tell you any more of your time today.

We really appreciate everything you've shared with us.

I just wonder if there's one final thing, that one thing about everything else

that we talked about that you most hope people will take away remember from this

conversation, what do you have that.

Yeah.

I think just doing something with what we talked about here, you know, so if

you're listening, going, like I'm, I'm interested in speaking and for a lot of

people, speaking is one of those things that has been on your radar for a while.

And maybe you're like, ah, you know, kick the can down the road, man.

Maybe at some point in the future, I'll do that.

Well, I mean, We just turned into another year.

It's 20, 22.

Like at some point you've got to take action on this.

You know, you don't want to look back and on a life of regret and be like, I

think I could have been a speaker, but I'll never know because I didn't try.

So if speaking is one of those things that's been on your radar, then don't

hesitate to reach out, let us know if there's anything we can do to

help you support you on that journey with us to take that walk with you,

Grant Baldwin.

It has been an absolute pleasure having you,

on Speaking Influence.

I've been so excited about it and you've absolutely delivered

everything I hoped for more.

Thank you so much for coming and being a guest today.

Johnny.

Thanks, man.

It's been a lot of fun.

Thanks for tuning in, I hope you've enjoyed the show.

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Speaking Influence till next time go and make great things happen.