Bryan talks with Luke Wallace, CEO and Co-Founder of Flowstate, the premium AI-powered camera system reshaping how surf parks capture and deliver video content. Luke explains how Flowstate automates video recording, detects maneuvers like snaps and barrels, enables surf competitions, and enhances the coaching experience. He also shares how the team is expanding from wave pools into snow and beach environments through their mobile broadcast solution.

Speaker The Wave Pool Mag podcast is made possible due to support from wave pool operators, technology providers and the growing list of companies doing business in the surf park space for commercial opportunities. Reach out to us at Hello at Wave Pool Mag. Thank you and stay stoked. Okay Luke Wallace podcast. Testing one. Two three. Testing. Test. Afternoon. Great. Um. Okay. Welcome to the Wave Pool Mag podcast. My name is Brian. My special guest today is Luke Wallace, CEO of Flow State. Hi, Brian. Good to be here. Good to chat with you again. Yeah. It's good. It's good to catch up with you, Luke. Um, we've had you on the show a couple times, and, uh, while people from Flow State, uh, your your brains on a stick engineering AI guys and and then you to talk about different, different things. And the company is up to a whole bunch. So we thought we'd have you on the show again. So welcome. Yeah. It's great to chat. You know, we've been evolving a lot over these last couple of years, and there's a lot of great new things in the pipeline. So yeah, excited to to really unpack it with you today. Yeah, it's it's funny because every time I talk to you there's like a flurry of emails, oh, we're doing this now. And it's like, don't don't you rest. Because when you first shared the idea with me, like, what flow State does As I video um for, for for surf parks. I'm like, oh, that's pretty cool. And I thought it, I thought about it in a very linear context, which was like, oh, you're just going to, you know, chalk up all these surf parks and install your system, but you're expanding a lot more, uh, beyond just that. Yeah. That's right. Well, look, we feel like we've really unearthed some, some gold here, you know, with this technology that we've created and, um, you know, the, the great thing for us is that people come to the surf parks and they have a great experience. And then they, they use our product and our technology. Um, and we keep getting a lot of people contacting us saying, hey, can you do this for that? Yeah. So across different sports, different activities. Um, and you know, probably one of the harder problems is saying no to a lot of things at the moment. But, you know, we're I don't think I don't think you say no to anything. Luke. Oh, no. No, I have started to I've had to actually, I've had to, uh, because there's just that many things coming past my desk and I. But, you know, we're we're really focused on, you know, some of the key activities both, you know, inside the wave pool and the broader surf market. Uh, well, let's before before we jump down, because I know you're you're wonderful at speaking. And you'll go you'll find your your road and you'll just keep going down there. So I'm going to stop you. Um, and let's back it up for, for some people just listening who aren't familiar with Flow State, if you can give us a background on on your history and what you do. Yeah. So myself and my co-founders have created this flow state, which is a AI automated, uh, video company that is really the basis of what we do, um, using AI technology to, to automate content capture. Um, and then what we do with that content, um, you know, is something that we've been really working hard on. Um, you know, we have started in, in wave pools, um, you know, we were fortunate enough to have, uh, urban surf Melbourne, uh, be one of the early pioneers in the wave pool industry, of which we're all based in Melbourne. Uh, and that became our new local surf spot. And, uh, through surfing there week in, week out. You know, I've surfed in the pool various pools hundreds of times now, um, just kind of, you know, as a, as a, as a big fan of wave pools, as a fan of surfing and, uh, you know, we were able to sort of, you know, go, well, you know, have some crazy ideas about, you know, this is the kind of experience that we'd like to see with, you know, being able to have, you know, every wave on, on video, um, when you come in from that, from that surf to, to help yourself, um, progress. Uh, but, you know, just that overall experience in the wave pool of, um, you know, going there, not just surfing, hanging out and, uh, sort of taking some experiences from, you know, going on surf trips to Indonesia where you, you know, you come in from the end of the day and they're showing photos and stuff up on a big screen, go, well, hey, why don't we have that here in the wave pool? So, um, you know, myself and my co-founders, uh, Ben, Mike and Chris, um, who have got a, you know, a huge wealth of experience working in enterprise grade software, um, and event and operations, um, you know, sort of come up with this, with this concept and this platform and, um, you know, some of them were new to surfing. Uh, but when they started to look at, you know, what the problems were that were trying to solve, were were really intrigued by how hard this is to try and do. And, you know, the fact that no one had really had done it before. Um, and that's what I'm going to stop you there. That was one of the the more fascinating podcasts we had was speaking with, uh, with Chris and Mike about how the whole AI, uh, recognition came about. And it's not so much spaces like you always people hear AI and face together, but it's more like the person's movement and, um, a lot more to it. I yeah, I thought that was that was great. But I'm jumping into to Melbourne, like your early days coming up and developing the system with with James Miles and some other people there. And um, can you I find this a fascinating story. Can you just kind of boil it down? Like, how did that come about? Yeah. Well, again, from going to, you know, I worked in software and technology at a company called Zendesk, which is, you know, a leader in the customer experience space. I'm a, you know, a lifelong surfer. I live in Melbourne and, um, you know, and, you know, with a young family, probably not surfing as much as, you know, as we should. Uh, and, um, sort of through that experience of, of going to the pool week in, week out and. Yeah, you know, James Miles, it's been a, you know, a great supporter of us since day one. Uh, um, again, um, you know, basically it was like, hey, I've got this idea and sort of went and tapped, uh, Mike and Chris, uh, on the shoulder who, who I work with at Zendesk, Desk. Um, along with, um, Ben. Ben Robertson, who I've, you know, I've worked with for for 20 something years, um, in, in London and all around the world. Um, and I was like, hey, you know, I've got this idea, um, you know, and I need help sort of bringing it to life. Right? And so this sort of, uh, the background and, you know, Chris, who's our CTO, uh, he heads up the AI and engineering and, you know, he sort of likes to say, I was doing AI before it was cool. Uh, and, you know, before. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He was the first AI, um, you know, hire at, uh, you know, a multi-billion dollar company and sort of grew that up into a team of 60 people. Um, you know, Mike, who headed up product at Zendesk. Um, and that's how we connected was, um, he was heading up the AI product at Zendesk, and I was like, hey, this is this is not just the future. This is the now. Yeah. Um, and sort of, um, you know, and, and Ben and I had worked together for a very long time, uh, you know, he, you know, facilitates our, you know, our cameras and the operations. And, you know, there's still a lot of on site sort of, you know, elements to to what we do and sort of that brains trust that we were able to, to form, um, you know, everyone's got different skill sets and um, it just sort of just and just then the combination of that and just. Yeah, the timing, you know, all of a sudden, you know, the, the AI boom started to come. And, you know, for those who are, you know, in that sort of field of work, you know, you knew it wasn't just another buzzword, okay. This provides I, I look at it as an automation tool. Um, you know, we automate a lot of very manual tasks that ultimately made, you know, something like videoing at a surf park just not quite commercially viable to have, you know, if you were to have someone stand there and film every wave of every session, you know, there may be 2 or 3 waves happening at any one time and, you know, say, for example, a wave garden wavegarden pool. You've got lefts and rights, you know. You may need 4 to 6 people filming full time for 16 hours a day. Not to mention taking out the, you know, the memory cards, going and uploading and downloading just not commercially viable. So what we do is, you know, really automate, you know, a bunch of those tasks. Um, and ultimately then, you know, create this experience that, you know, is is pretty awesome. So I wanted to ask you about that. Was there a point in Melbourne where you, uh, were like, wow, this is this is legit. This is really going to work. Was there like, um, yeah. Well, I started seeing, you know, cameras popping up left, right and centre. Um, people were putting Handicams and iPhones on gaffer tapes to bricks on the side of the wall and trying to film themselves because, you know, there was that real need. And look, there were photographers there. Uh, but, you know, maybe not there on the cold, windy days and, uh, there maybe not there at 6 a.m. in the morning, or they were uploading content when, you know, you got your best wave up. So I, like a bunch of people just started filming myself, and, um, next thing you know, I'm standing at the showers and there's, like, a small lineup of people giving me their phone numbers saying, hey, can you please, can I get that video footage? Um, and it was a pain in the butt to get a, you know, a two gigabyte file off my phone. Um, so, um, and plus, again, you know, I grew up being, um, you know, in the pro junior surf scene. You know, I had a surf coach. I had someone film me every single week. Uh, and I knew that that that was the key to progression and knowing and seeing, you know, and that's one of the things that surprised me about you is like, you're not just a nerd. You rip. You're a very accomplished surfer. I was like, oh, wow, I guess you can do both. Oh thank you. That's true. Well, you know, I, uh, probably still don't surf as much as I'd like, but, um, you know, again, you know, by April's, you know, where are you going to catch that many waves in an hour. You know, we're here in Munich at the moment. Um, you know, I've surfed twice in the last two days. Goes, uh, I've caught more waves, you know, in the last, you know, the last couple of days than I have living near the beach in a couple of months. So, um, you know, it's, uh, and also, you know, just the convenience of wave pools, you know, especially if you're a busy working person, which, you know, we all are these days. It's, um, you know, the ability to schedule a surf at a certain time is, um, you know, I'll pay good money for that kind of convenience. And I think a lot of people are. And that was one of the things that fascinated me about the space was being able to like, okay, I'm have time Friday at this hour, you know, to go do, do what I enjoy. And it sounds like you're there and you're ahead of the curve with the video coming down and, you know, people just enjoying watching themselves surf. It is it's, uh, you can walk into some of the surf parks and everyone's got their heads down looking at their phones and watching their surf sessions, because, again, we played on the fact that most people had never seen themselves surf. You know, they may have the odd clip of, you know, a friend or family member who sort of got it on their iPhone or something at the beach. Uh, but to be able to see every wave of every session and, um, you know, it is just something that the everyday surfer had never had access to. So we sort of try to bring this sort of pro level toolset to, you know, to the everyday surfer. And that's been a real game changer. Yeah. I have to share with you, one of my favorite moments was Post-surf at Sydney, and everyone was gathered around for my, my session in, uh, Sandy's in the bar and just watching the monitor and, uh, you know, heckling their friends and hooting their friends. And it was, uh, it was it's a it's an ambiance you don't quite get at the beach. It really is. Yeah. That's our replay mode. So, you know, you come in from a surf session and we're automatically replaying that session, um, back in those food and beverage areas. It's really designed, uh, to help boost foot traffic, uh, into those FMB areas. Uh, again, sort of taking some inspiration from those Indonesian surf trips where you'd go back and watch, you know, photos that you'd got during the day and, you know, sinking a few bintangs. And it's like, right, we can again, this is just another thing that we can automate that ultimately, you know, really boosts that experience. Um, at the surf park. Um, and then for those operators as well, it's really driving foot traffic, um, and their FMB revenue and that sort of, you know, you might have gone in there for a drink, but now I'm going to have two drinks, I'm going to have something to eat. And um, yeah, you're right. I walk into Sandy sometimes and I kind of think I've walked into an English pub during a football finals. It's, um, it gets pretty, uh, it gets pretty raucous in there. And, um. Yeah, again, it just, you know, it creates that that awesome experience. Yeah. It's it's great. And then, um, I wanted to to touch on this, like evolution. It's like, now we have this, uh, community in the bar watching your surf session. People are downloading their their clips to their phones. So you've created something shareable that people, people can enjoy and get more value out of. They're out of their sessions. But, um, in recent recent news, you guys are still expanding, which is one of the things that fascinates me about you, that I touched on this at the beginning of the conversation and that's like, aren't you going to stop? But you keep you keep going. Luke. You're like Energizer bunny material and and and you've got like, you came out with maneuver detection. Yeah. Never stop innovating, huh? Like, if you stop, someone else is going to maybe, you know, catch up to you. So and again, that's just the the way that I think, you know, myself and my co-founders are wired. You know, there's the you know, again, we're in the infancy of of AI technology and what we could do with that. And, um, you know, where we had these big ideas and big visions of where we want to go is, is still automating a lot of manual tasks. So, yeah, we've taken that, um, automated video capture, uh, element. And over the last couple of years, uh, one of our big key foundational elements that we've been working on is this automated maneuver detection. Um, and what that is, is now our AI models can tell us, you know, this is a bottom turn. This is a snap. This is a cutback. This is a barrel. Um, what that actually translates into, um, spans, uh, coaching, um, scoring, uh, for competitions, uh, gamification and a whole bunch of elements. So we sort of try to unpack each of those elements. Um, so we're about to announce the release of our new competition product. Um, so you can run competitions on Flowstate, uh, whether that's inside or outside of the pool. So how I'm going to stop you there. So how will that work? How does that work? Running competition on a on your software? Yeah. So, um, much like, you know, you may have seen a, you know, a WSL Contest. You know, you can have, uh, human judges, um, you know, uh, be watching, uh, an event. Yeah. They're in the live pool. You could be remote, uh, access and watching as the clips drop on flow state, um, and you enter a score, you know, you know, and we've got a number of different ways that that scoring could be entered, but just, you know, again, if we're. So it could be a crowd, you could be invited to a group chat for scoring potentially. Uh, it's also look again it's on the flow state platform. Uh, and so if you were, you know, you had an hour's surf session at the wave pool. And again, in Australia, we have a big boardriders culture. Um, you know, we see it everywhere. There's a lot of, um, you know, competitions being run in pool here. And we're here in Munich, in Germany at the moment. You know, they run the, the German national titles in the pool last year. So again, you know, the wave comes through, judges sit there and they score that, you know, between 0 and 10. Um, so look again that's uh, you know, that's something that already existed. Uh, but now again, with this all in one solution that you don't have to have the video here. A scoring system over there or something else to try to update the rankings. You know, there's all in one solution. Um, that can happen to again, run your competitions. But what's really exciting, I think about that is that we take that quantitative data and input that into our system with our AI models. So we now will know what a 4.4 is, a 6.8 ride. You know, an excellent ride over, uh, over an eight point ride. Um, and so that our AI models start to become even more intelligent between knowing what a you know, what how how good or or poor a wave was. So things like our automated highlight packages, you know, at the moment they're good. Sometimes it's not, you know, it's not always perfect, but you know, it's it knows what a highlight moment was. But it doesn't know if that was maybe a four or a six point ride, right? So, you know, for example, yeah, those highlight packages will start to get even, uh, you know, even better by just pulling out your best waves. But again, in that competitive and scoring space, you know, where we're heading with I think within the next 12 months is, you know, automated judging, automated scoring. Um, and which could happen from pro-level events. And again, we're seeing pro level events in the pool. Um, right through to say, you know, the boardriders clubs. But for the everyday surfer, um, you know, this might be more of a, there's a, there's a real global trend in what's called as competitive socialising. Right. And whether that might be something like a Topgolf, um, you know, a VR experience where you're shooting up zombies and, you know, you know, who shot the most zombies. And, you know, it's a bit of a competition between your friends. You know, we kind of look at other industries such as that, um, that take influence about how we may do that in the surf park scene so that. Hey, you know, and particularly in the US, you know, there's a big private hire market for. For people who book out the pools, you know, we see in all the markets. But, um, there are a lot of private session. There is a lot of private sessions. And you've gone to the pool with ten buddies. Um, and, hey, we can automate and sort of gamify that, uh, that experience. And again, it doesn't have to be serious, be more fun. But, you know, whoever comes last is buying the first round at the bar, right? Something like that. And, uh, again, just trying to maximize, you know, this experience that, you know, that that most of us know how awesome it is to go surfing in a wave pool. But it's not just surfing. Um, it's, you know, this whole sort of cool experience. Yeah. So coming out with, with all the things you've done in the last year, um, I always asked this on the podcast, I what was the most challenging and then what was also the most rewarding? Well, everything that I've just said, basically. Yeah, you know, it has, you know, it's been a good 18 months of working on this maneuver, recognition and, um, you know, our, our machine learning team who have been, you know, working on that basically, you know, people dedicated to that full time and in a way painful that I'm kind of like, wow, you know, we've had people working on this full time, um, you know, for 18 months, you know, without it, you know, ultimately producing any revenue off the back of it yet. But we knew that, you know, that sort of this longer term vision of what we have to do, these kind of things in this space, not just wave pools in the in the broader surfing world. Um, you know, ultimately that will, um, you know, not only put us, you know, continue to put us ahead of, you know, in the space. But just again, what we're here to do is, you know, um, you know, create awesome experiences for surfers because ultimately that's that's that's our boss, really. You know, they're the ones who come to the pools polls and purchase the content. And then, you know, if we keep engaging with them and thrilling them and giving them something new and exciting, then, you know, then everyone's everyone's winning. Yeah. And I wanted to touch on that. You set yourself apart from other companies by calling yourself a premium product. And how do you what distinguishes you as a, as a premium product? Yeah, I guess you could see others who are doing, you know, they can almost or can do video capture, right? It's like, right. You can um, okay, you can have your clips, uh, but you still might have to go and select your clips from, you know, 400 videos. Um, or it's just that the fact that you, you just get them. That's it. Okay. And then you download them, and then you leave that platform and you leave that experience. Um, you know, we've taken, um, just that singular product, um, and again turned it into, you know, a whole stack of, of features, um, with our there's the, you know, the AI generated photos, which is a good entry level content product for wave pools. Uh, we've just launched professional photography, uh, at Waco. Waco is a great example. You know, you've got Rob Henson there who's part of the fabric. Um, he's a legend. Um, people love him. And people go to Waco, right? To to nail clips and and get that big air section and, and really work on that. And we've seen there that people value both. You know, I want to get every wave on video so I can watch that whole thing. But, you know, again, you know, Rob is a great photographer, can really zoom in with his, you know, his big camera or get in the water, you know, and give you that, you know, that bedroom poster shot. Um, and you know, we can't do that. Um, but, you know, and at the other end, you know, you can't get every wave on video. So, you know, they really complement each other. Um, again, our coaching product, um, you know, that we released last year, um, you know, again, an all in one solution. So you're not having to sort of download and upload to to other platforms, you know. That is right there in the system. Um, you know, clips are dropping, you know, a couple of minutes after they happen so that, um, for those venues that may have the big screens, you know, we can be playing those back, you know, as they're paddling back out or walking back around, um, and again, in that, that coaching space again, particularly in wave pool world, you know, they're we're in a lot of inland locations where surfing is new to a lot of people. So, um, we again, that sort of goal of trying to help people surf better, faster so that they come back for more, you know, surfing is hard. Um, and, you know, again, at that beginner level, um, you know, if you're going out there and just nosediving and, and, you know, going over the falls, uh, you know, are you coming back again? Um, some maybe some not. Um, so again, if we can help people surf better, faster, they they progress from out of the white water and onto the point breaks. Uh, you know that that's that seems to be, uh, something that's happening in the space is the progression from novice to intermediate is never been as rapid. And the world of surfing as it as it is now, and I think your product is, is something that definitely helps that if people use it 100% coaching, we get a lot of messages from people just saying like, thank you. Um, I'm, I'm surfing the best I've ever surfed in my life. Uh, and that is, you know, repetitions in the pool and video analysis and just being able to see yourself and you thought, oh, I thought that, you know, we're all we all probably think we surf a little bit better than we do. And it can be humbling, uh, when you look back in the video. But those who sort of go, okay, well, look, I want to try and work on something and I want to try and fix that. Uh, and again, where we get some really great messages. Um, one of the stories I got the other day talking to a guy, he told me he moved to Melbourne specifically for Flow State. He goes, where else can I see myself surf like that? I guess I really wanted to work on my surfing. Wow. And he moved to another city for, like, I don't know, a year, uh, and just surfed his brains out, uh, and got, you know, bought a lot of videos, uh, and he's, you know, all of a sudden, I went from being a pretty average surfer to being a lot better surfer. And, um, you know, those sort of stories are pretty, uh, heartwarming. And, um, that's that's fantastic. I mean, to to get feedback like that, it's not in every industry that you that you do. And what I wanted. So as you do this, you've connected with people. You're in several different parks. I wanted to know what your. I wanted to get some stats from you as far as how many parks you're into and how many you're you're going to. Yeah. So, uh, we're a nine wave pools at the moment. Uh, urban surf. Sydney. Melbourne. Uh, the wave in Bristol here. Surf town. Munich. Uh, surf Abu Dhabi, palm Springs surf club, uh Waco surf, uh, Fireside and Dallas. Uh, I think that's everyone. Yeah, I hope I didn't forget anyone. And then you'll be popping up in a few more? Yeah, a few more, definitely. Coming up. Um, you know, this year is probably a little bit of a slower year in the, in the world of wave pools. Uh, but I think 20, 26, uh, is, is going to be huge. Yeah. I was telling someone that because last year we had so many pools open up, it was just the cycle of things. And then this year, there's fewer, fewer pools. There is, um, there is, uh, but I think, you know, the, the the game is changing, you know, obviously, um, you know, Wave garden's been, you know, um, you know, very big and popular, but, you know, endless are here now and they've got their first one out the door here in Munich. And, you know, there's 100 and something people here testing it out and surfing and having a great time. And I think, you know, they're going to be delivering a, you know, a lot of projects in the very near future. Um, you know, I know at Palm Springs and Surf Loch as well. They've, you know, they've got their first big one operating and they're going to be you know, I think they've got some some big plans for some, some new ones coming out. Um, likewise with oh, I didn't mention Revel in Arizona. I knew I forgot liner because we were there just last month. Um, and, um. And what, um, you know, Matt and Adam and Cole are doing their revel. Um, you know, I think, you know, they've got a, you know, a little bit of a different approach. And again, you know, we were there last month for the the Surf Park summit. And you know what they've done there with creating that beach environment. You know the wave is awesome. The waves are fun. Um, and you know, I got to surf there. Got barreled. Uh, but, you know, they've created this beach environment which obviously, you know, you're in Arizona, you're in an inland area where it's hot, you know, nine months of the year. Um, and, you know, we were walking in there in the morning and they weren't they were 20 minutes out from opening. There's a queue of 50 people trying to get in, um, you know, and it was, you know, young families, moms and kids and, you know, they've created a beach, they've got sand, there's swimming pools, there's diving boards, you know, pump tracks. Um, and, you know, I reckon they'll probably be more people going to the beach. Um, and then there are surfers and obviously, you know, the steady line of surfers coming every day, which creates a great, you know, a thing to watch as well. But, um, yeah, they have done a great job there of creating a beach environment, which, which leads me to with Flow State, you've started in wave pools focused on on wave pools. Are you branching out to other areas? Yeah, we are um, so we are branching out into both, uh, the broader surf market, um, action sports, uh, and attractions. So we've taken what we do in a commercial environment in a wave pool. Uh, we've packaged that up into our new flow cast mobile broadcast product. Okay. And we're out there, so should be announcing some new partnerships soon with some, you know, governing bodies of, um, surfing associations from around the world. Um, and we've been automating surf contests. Uh, we've done some, some contests in the US and Australia recently. Um, and again, yeah, taking what we do there in the wave pool, um, and bringing that to, to the beach for the, that mobile broadcast product. Um, you know, and again, working with these surfing organizations and the elite surfers in there, which we hope will have a bit of a, you know, a trickle down effect into that, uh, that broader, um, surf community. Um, we're also working on snow product. Um, again. Again, we feel that we've really, um, you know, unlocked this code of what we can do with this product. And again, as I sort of we said at the earlier, um, you know, the people knocking on our door saying, hey, can you do this and these other sports, uh, and we really think that, you know, we look at sort of like what we call flow sports, you know, surfing, snowboarding, skateboarding, ski, um, where, you know, style and flow, um, you know, are a big part of that. Um, and again, similar sorts of, um, attributes to going to a wave pool where, you know, it's people going for, you know, an experience, you know, it's it's athletic, it's sporty. Um, and if you just went snowboarding and, you know, Switzerland or Utah or Colorado, where we've been out there doing some test filming, um, you know, do I want to get some videos so I could either help myself improve or just, you know, a bit of a souvenir to go? Hey, I was just, you know, I've been snowboarding in Park City, Utah, so it was a really cool. How was that going from an environment where it's, um, you know, wave pool, you know, where the waves are going to break every single time. You know, where you can set up a camera to going to an environment like the beach or a ski slope. I'm sure that presented some, some challenges. Yeah. Both are not without their challenges. Uh, you know, we go to the beach, uh, you know, we are, you know, we're bringing down our, our servers and cameras and, uh, you know, you're in an environment that's windy, sandy, salty, wet. Uh, not exactly any equipment. Uh, haven't lost any equipment. Uh, you know, particularly, uh, you know, Ben, our CEO, uh, he's very strict about how our equipment gets, um, cared for, how it, uh, you know, how it's handled. Um, you know. Yeah, I know Ben. He he pointed out he pointed to a pole and told me the price of it, and I was like, what? It was, like, super expensive. Yeah. And and you wouldn't wouldn't think about that. So I'm sorry I stopped your experiences in other environments rather than, uh, human made artificial waves. Yeah. So, yeah, we're sort of bit of, you know, trawling through those beach, uh, elements. But again, you know, they feel like, you know, solvable problems. Um, and, um, you know, some of the testing and trialling we've been doing, uh, recently with some filming with the WSL, surfing Australia, US Boardriders, uh, you know, they've, you know, all been going really well and hopefully, um, you know, some, some exciting things will eventuate out of that. Um, and then likewise with the snow, you know, um, you know, mountains are big. Uh, mountains, mountains are very big. They're a lot wider than a, uh, than a surf park. So, um, and then you're also filming into something such as, you know, uh, the bright white snow. Yeah, it's it's all white. It's, uh. Yes. The contrast and the glare are challenges. And, um, you know, sometimes. Yeah, we won't always get it 100% right. But, uh, again, sort of, uh, able to sort of package things up with that, that mobile broadcast element, um, so that, you know, again, it's not just say a fixed location like it is on a pole at the wave pool, um, that these units can be transported again, you know, things, you know, such as Starlink, you know, enable us to be able to broadcast and send, you know, content to the cloud from anywhere. Um, so we're not just relying on that hard cabling to, to get the data out. Ultimately, that is at the base of what we do is a lot of data when you're shooting in six K footage all day, every day. Um, so, you know, being able to process that data, get it to the cloud in a timely effort. Um, but again, we've got, you know, we've got all the ingredients and we've seen that these ingredients work. And now it's just sort of trying to bake the cake in a little bit of a different way. Uh, that's very similar. But, you know, has its sort of its own nuances, which, you know, we're really excited about. And I think you can. Yeah. And and that's something I always find fascinating whenever we, uh, whenever we talk. Is that you? Um, you know, you you have one area kind of locked up and you're like, ah, snow. Ah, the beach, which, uh, is, you know, presents its problems like, like we discussed. But, um, you just keep evolving and kind of growing in that sense. Is there, um, do you have an end goal? Do you have an end game? Are you just kind of feeling the space out and innovating and developing what you can as you can? Yeah, a little bit of both. You know, innovate or die. Um, yeah. Basically, uh, and I think just the again, with my, with my partners and co-founders in the business, it's just, you know, that's just the brains that we have, you know, like, I don't know, I get bored if I come home from work and sit there and watch TV. Um, you know, that was always my thing. I'm always sitting on, you know, I guess a bit of an ideas person and always, uh, you know, if you go into my house, you know, there's whiteboards up, you know, there's walls covered in post-it notes, and it's just like I'm always like, kind of, you know, got these ideas for things. And, you know, like, we find this fun, you know, like, again, I can't believe this is our jobs. And I get people, uh, you know, who've sort of left the corporate world and, um, you know, posting videos online about us surfing in, you know, in the Middle East and Germany. And they're like, wow, you know, I can't believe that's your job. But but also at the same time that is so you know, that is so you guys. Right. You know you and you know we're we're we're creating the best jobs, you know, that we have. And again, we've just brought on a couple of new machine learning engineers to our team who were you know, we found a couple of new needles and haystacks basically. Yeah. You were you had mentioned that. And I found that fascinating. Like you, it sounds like a great company. Yeah. Well, sometimes, you know, there's sort of maybe the stereotype software nerd, right? Is, uh, you know, video gamer who's, you know, locked up in their room and, uh, you know, just coding. But, um, I think, you know, we found some, some new team members who were not only brilliant at what they do in the field of machine learning, but also passionate, keen surfers who surf, you know, week in, week out. Um, they're pretty hard to find. Um, and, uh, and you had said that with, um, you know, you have the, the surfing kind of, uh, you know, carrot to, to attract people. But at the end of the day, you're still competing with, you know, Google and Amazon to find the best engineers. Yeah. And that's the kind of level of people we look at. You know, we, um, you know, we pay people well, we bring in the best people and we get, you know, that kind of performance from them. You know, we're not offshoring our, you know, developers to sort of, you know, the Third World and getting cheap engineering, I get probably five messages a day from a sort of a software offshore company that's going to, you know, give me a developers for $20 an hour. It's just like, um, you know, we've we've gone down, you know, I've dabbled with those sort of things in the past. And, you know, you're just it's, hey, it's okay for some people and that's maybe how they scale. But, you know, we found that when we invest in good people, we pay them good money and we, you know, and hence why, you know, we do put ourselves at the premium end of the market. And that's why we're I think we're where we're at and we're in, you know, the big premium pools and, you know, our product works. You know which it shouldn't be a competitive advantage. But, you know, it kind of is in some ways because there's people talking about doing things and it's not working. And it's like, well, you know, this is that is a Benjamin benchmark. And you know, again, yes, we are on that premium end of the market. But you know, we can turn up and we install our product and it's works. Uh, and uh, that is, you know, sometimes we maybe we make it look too easy. Um, but it is ultimately because of all the, the hard work from our, our team that happens in, in the background. And I kind of it blows my mind sometimes like I might be on a, you know, a morning call on a Friday and I'm like, oh, I've got this idea for this thing that I'm kind of, you know, been talking about and come in on Monday and one of our, like, one of our young guys came. She's like, hey, you know that idea? Look, I kind of built it over the weekend. Like what? Like, is this not quite fully there, but look, I've mopped it up and you're like, you know, there. And again, you know, the the new competition product, you know, with how fast that's been built this year. Um, you know, we always, you know, we wanted to do that because we knew that the, the quantity of data that we would get from scoring input will ultimately power our AI models to become more intelligent. But, you know, again, the, um, the speed of which we work. And again, I feel like sometimes I'm, I don't know, I don't want to be like this like salesman of talking about we're doing this and we're doing that and we're doing this, but it's like we literally are doing all these things because again, as you know, power users of our own products, as active users of our own, you know, of going to wave pools and you know, our team, you know, we're fully remote, but our team get together and surf once a week at Urban Surf. And, you know, um, you know, we get to use the product ourselves. We get to talk to people in the water about how they're using it and get that real time feedback and, you know, and get back into it and go, right, well, I kind of want to do this and do that. And um, yeah. That's why we just, again, keep on moving forward. And again, we're at the end of the day. We're building things that we want to use for ourselves, which again, it's like, is this work? Like it's. Yeah, but that's that's great to hear. It sounds like, you know, you have your, your core principles and hiring the best people and using the best technology, but then the your growth and your scaling up is very organic at the same time. And that's, that's that's great to see. Yeah. You know, we we reinvest everything that we make back into the company, back into building product. You know, we're in a new wave pool that's basically the benchmark for a new headcount. Um, right. That's uh, you know, that's a, uh, you know, that's a new developer that we can go and build a new product. And, uh, you know, obviously at some point that needs to, to, to come back and, and whatnot. But, you know, we're in hyper growth mode at the moment. And, um, again, there's just, uh, you know, my hardest problem is saying no to things. And, but we've just got so many great opportunities in front of us. And I think, you know, sometimes there is just a little bit of luck with just timing and where we are and, you know, this sort of evolution of AI and the world at the moment means that, you know, there's just so much green space in front of us to do what we do. Um, not only in wave pools, broader surf action sports attractions and, um, you know, it's it's a good time to be alive. Right on, right on. Thanks. Thanks, Luke. For for taking time out and catching us up with with with what you're doing. And, um, it's fascinating. It's always a I love watching you speak and kind of go down the rabbit hole into into what? You. Well, you've got to be careful. Right? You've got to be careful. Because once you start me, I won't stop. And I'm, uh, that's, uh. Yeah. Again, it's just, um, you know, just super excited about, you know, what we're doing. And everyone in our company, we're just live and breathe it, and it's, uh, you know, you go to sleep at night thinking about it, you wake up thinking about it, and, um, again, this is, um, we all pinch ourselves going, wow, this is our job. It's not a it's not a job when you love what you're doing. And that's why we're yeah, we're moving fast. We're innovating. And it's just, um, you know, again, when you create that cycle of, you know, the stoke and you see the results and you get that feedback from people and hearing how, like, you know, talking to, uh, you know, DJ Falcon last night who was DJing at the party and he was like, I don't believe you, that, you know, that you've got all my videos. And I was like, no, it's it's there. And um, and is that really? And then I've seen him come online this morning and I can see him on, on flow state on, on the surf town Munich page. And there he was. He got all his videos. He's like, wow. Like, yeah, you know, so it's um. Yeah, it's uh, and then after and after this podcast, I'm going to share my, my videos with you of my, my session this morning on the point break left. Yeah. Well, hey, if you got to surf in a surf park and it's not on video, you know, did it really happen? And again, look, we're surfing in Munich, you know, surfing in Scotland and surfing in the Middle East. Like, who ever thought that you'd surf in places, you know, like this. Not if you sort of grew up on the beach. And so again, yeah, if we did this, it's, um, you know, I want to see it and I kind of want to sort of have a little humble brag that I just got to surf in Munich, Germany, at one of the coolest wave pools in the world. So, yeah, you can you can help me pick out my Instagram posts this afternoon. Don't forget to tag us, Brian. Right on. Luke, thanks so much for, uh, for taking time out and joining us. Well, thank you for the chat. And again, yeah, we'll see what happens when we talk again, maybe next year. And I'm sure there'll be a new line of things to talk about. Yeah. But yeah. Thanks for. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. Okay. Right on. Luke. Cheers. Thanks. Bye.