In this episode, I count down who I believe are the top ten front-runners to being the next Minister for Education. What position with Norma Foley come? Who do I tip to be the next Donagh O'Malley? Find out in an episode that's like to age very badly!

Hello?

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Hello.

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You're very welcome to if I

were the minister for education

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from unsharp dot Nash.

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A regular podcast where I delve

into the world of primary education

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and let you know what I would do.

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If I were the minister for

education, this is Simon Lewis.

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If you enjoy this podcast, please

feel free to subscribe on your

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favorite podcasting platform.

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And please leave a review as it

will help reach more teachers.

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In this episode, I will be

pondering after a general election.

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Which I suppose did not yield

much change who is going to be

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the next minister for education.

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As I am basically looking at the

landscape at the moment as it stands

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and recording this, it does look

like the government will be made up

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of Faena Gale and some independence.

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So I'm going to be looking at the

potential Finn fall or Faena Gale

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ministers or potential ministers

for education will Norma Foti.

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B.

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Remain in her position on survive or

shuffle or will Faena foil give Phoenix,

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Gale the poison chalice of the ministry

for education and who will it be?

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I'm going to go through my top 10 or

12 possibilities of who I think might

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be the minister for education and

why I think there'll be that I'd be

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very interested in your own comments.

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So please reply at to the podcast.

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On the various social media that I'm on

these days, I'm still on acts just about

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but also on the various other platforms,

Instagram threads and blue sky, of

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course, where most people have escaped to.

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You can always contact me as well on

my email, Simon at onshore dot Nash.

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And I'd be delighted to hear from

you, especially if you have any

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ideas for a future episode, or if

you'd like me to cover any aspect

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of the primary education system.

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So let's get into it straight away.

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And I guess we thought we

were going to have a bit of an

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anticlimax before the election.

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And I suppose with the timing of

it being announced and the short

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amount of time between it being

announced and actually happening.

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I guess we expected an

anticlimax of having a Faena

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file and Faena Gale coalition.

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But I guess the question was

going to be who were they

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going to be in coalition with?

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I don't think, I suppose with one

TD left, I don't think the greens

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are going to be in coalition.

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And the big question mark was

whether the social Democrats or

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labor would jump in at the moment.

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That isn't looking likely

though, that could change.

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Today or tomorrow or the next

day, the way these things go, the

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temptation to go into government.

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I imagine is very tempting because if

you have key issues that you want to put

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through, And there's a, the only way of

doing that, according, I suppose to the

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world of politics is to be in government.

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As I said, I'm an armchair.

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Fan of politics.

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And I don't know.

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I don't know anything really do.

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Bush ad.

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That's just my own beliefs.

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I know what I am a little bit of,

I wouldn't say an expert in, but it

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certainly, I have a bigger interest in is

education, specifically primary education.

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And what I am interested

in is who is going.

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To be the next minister for education.

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And what I'm going to do is I

ain't going to give you my top 10.

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Of possible.

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Minister version is some sort

of countdown show style thing.

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I will say before I do as a few outsiders

that I thought might adapt, that I

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have written about in my medium blog.

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So let's get on to the top 10.

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In 10th place.

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It's Nile Collins from Faena foil.

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So the reason I put NA.

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And he's in the running and the top 10,

but quite far down is because he's been

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in the role of minister for further

education for the last few years.

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And this might be seen as a promotion.

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So he's got nothing to do with

primary education and I'm not sure

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what the focus of the new government

will be in terms of education.

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It seems.

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Primary education is has really been

neglected to me anyway, has been

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neglected terribly for quite some time.

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Especially in special education,

especially in patronage,

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especially in funding.

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And so there's areas that need

to be absolutely looked at there.

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And secondary school education

is in terrible bother.

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From what I can see with leaving

cert reform, there's a huge amount of

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animosity, AI, all that is coming into it.

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And then I don't know about

further education and what

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kind of situation it's in.

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But either way being promoted to

the full minister of education.

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It would be a promotion for Neil Collins.

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He seems to be an experienced

politician with ma has had major

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roles in previous government.

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So he has experience.

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So he might be someone who

might steady the education ship.

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Now I've never heard anything really

from him about primary education.

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And I can't think why he would be chosen

over people above in the list for the

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role, but he's an outsider , I don't

know what batting rates are, but he's in

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10th place in my view for the ministry.

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Let's move on to number

nine, Hildegard Nocton.

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I'm very much an outside that in the

similar vein to Nial Collins has a junior.

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I don't know if it's a junior or senior

or is it a super junior ministry?

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But it's she is a minister

for special education.

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And maybe this is seen as a stepping

stone for the main minister for

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education job, especially if the focus

is tackling special education, which

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seems to be the only show in town.

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If you look at the newspapers, when

it comes to talking about education,

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Our primary level, at least.

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I don't know.

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If Hildegard, Nocton got to grips with

the portfolio of special education

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after Josefa Madigan finished up.

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I don't think she had a lot of time.

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I think she had to spend a lot of

her time going around to schools and

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learning about the portfolio, learning

about things to say and what not to say.

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She read from the scripts most of the

time, which I don't blame her again.

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It's not a position.

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It's a complex position

and special education.

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I've argued has been neglected severely.

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Over the last 10 years, at least.

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And there's a lot of fixing to do.

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And a lot of collaboration that's needed

with health as well as education, as

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well as the department of children.

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So it's not a single

portfolio, special education.

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Isn't just an educational position.

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There's a lot of other complex issues.

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Around therapies around our

physical supports around care

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supports and things like dash.

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Whoever it's going to be is going to need

to do a lot of work in special education.

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That's why I put here, the guard

knocked an in as the main person

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out her experience in other fields.

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Which are also necessary

and possibly as important.

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I haven't heard her speaking on,

so that's why I have her maybe

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further outside in that position.

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Let's go to number eight.

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So number eight is John Connolly.

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From Faena foil.

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And you might go, who.

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Which is what I did because I haven't

heard of them despite the fact

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that he and I share the same job.

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He is a primary school

principal who is now a TD.

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And being elevated to being the minister

of education straight away, just because

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he was a primary school principal

might be as surprising given that first

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time TD and Norma Foley got the nod.

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The last time she was elevated straight

into the minister for education, which

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is held onto for quite some time.

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However, I feel this time.

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There's probably a few people.

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Ahead of them in the queue for the job.

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Eh, he isn't somebody who's ever come on

my radar in the primary education world.

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The prime education system is quite

a small . And you would hear of

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famous primary school principals

for want of a better word.

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And I've never heard the

name, John Connolly in that.

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As sort of sentences.

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And you know, when people are speaking

about influential people in primary

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education, I haven't heard John

Kennedy's name mentioned at all.

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Maybe he's popular in his native

county and is well known there.

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And clearly he's well respected because

he wouldn't have gotten elected otherwise.

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But it's difficult to know actually where

he would stand on issues and education.

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And would he simply do what norm of

Foley did, which was essentially read

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from the script from their advisors or

would he having been a primary school

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principal and knowing the struggles

of being a primary school principal

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say I'm going to fix those things.

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That's why John Connolly

is my number eight.

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Number seven.

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Katherine Callahan from Faena Gale.

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Now.

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This is possibly my local bias

showing in a way being from

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Carlo as Catherine Callahan is.

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But it isn't for that reason, I put

her up in lofty position, number seven.

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And maybe I'm being a bit generous,

but I think should make for a very

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interesting minister for education because

she's involved in the education system.

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But she isn't a teacher.

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What would my culinary think of this?

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Because she's actually a special

needs assistance and being a

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special needs assistant would bring

a very interesting perspective.

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To the education system, because

it's, while you're in the education

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system, you're a, I wouldn't,

it's a, it's not generous.

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To call you a kind of an

outsider on the inside.

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But when people talk about

education in Ireland, Sometimes

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special needs assistance.

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Aren't as appreciated as they should be.

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For their knowledge of the system.

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And because they experience the

system from a really interesting

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perspective from the needs of what are

sometimes called the most vulnerable.

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And I don't like the term the most

vulnerable because they're only

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vulnerable because they're not

getting what they should be getting.

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But anyway, that's a bit of

a rant in the middle of this.

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I think she'd be an interesting

minister for education.

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It's her first time being elected.

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So it will be a massive jump

much like people before her.

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And I'm not quite sure.

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What she actually stands for

in terms of education, because

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I've never heard of her.

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Despite being a local person.

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So her high rank here might be

because she is likely the most

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qualified to tackle special education.

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Which might own, which may be

Faena, Gale's only interest in

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the primary education manifesto.

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Why wouldn't you put a

special needs assistant in the

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portfolio of special education?

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I suppose if that comes up, but maybe

if that's your main jump, it might

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be the full minister for education.

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That's got into the next on number six.

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Carl Crow.

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From Faena foil.

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Remember him, anyone remember him think

cast your mind back to COVID 19 days.

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And there was a man called Carl Crow

who decided to pull up the sleeves

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and do a day of subbing in his.

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In his local primary

skill and kind of declare.

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Infamous an infamous situation

because it completely backfired when

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it came across as being critical

of his colleague, Norma Foley.

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Who was under pressure at the

time with the teacher shortage.

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And she was denying as always that

there was a teacher shortage and by

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Carla Crowe going into a day sobbing.

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At didn't really ruin with

Norma Foley's narrative that

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there wasn't a teacher shortage.

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It was slightly, I think what

Carla Crowe is trying possibly to

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do was what Leon Gradcracker did.

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Remember Leo Varadkar and decided

he'd add, pull up his sleeves

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and be a doctor for a couple of

days and go into the hospitals.

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And I dunno, as he had given COVID

injections at the time I got to, nobody

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was doing to be honest, but anyway,

people thought, oh, that was good, man.

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Other people.

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And so on.

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Coho didn't come out of it as well.

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But like I get what he was trying to do.

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He has a primary school teacher after all.

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But he's really never raised his head.

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Above the power pose in terms

of leadership and education.

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I've never really heard him

talk about education short.

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Of Geno.

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The usual stuff Defina fall go on about.

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And you know, it felt, I feel if

you're a primary school teacher in

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the doll, You should be saying more.

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Than your average TD, when it comes to

education, you shouldn't just be, you

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know, towing the party line and talking

about school lunches and free school

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books, you should be talking about

pedagogy should be talking about it.

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What are the things that actual primary

school teachers are talking about?

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And he never did dash.

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So I can't really see him

advocating for any changes.

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To anything that Most people

really care about an education.

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And I feel, he seems to be a nice man.

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He seems to be a Joe McCue type

minister, like a friendly face,

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but I don't see any massive push

from him to challenge the system.

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Now it could be wrong.

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My.

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I have no dealings with them.

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I only know him from that

infamous day of sobbing Bush.

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I never heard him really saying anything

interesting about the education system.

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So that's why I haven't further

down the list and some might think.

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Number five, we're getting serious.

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Now these are the potential possibilities.

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And this is my, let's say

left of field kind of concept.

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I have, I had her higher actually,

when I was drafting this list.

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And just..

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She fell down into number five possible.

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Number five.

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And that's Jennifer Carol

McNeill from Phoenix Gale.

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And you might wonder why someone

who isn't a teacher or involved

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in education would be so high up

the list in terms of a portfolio.

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Because I think I see Jennifer Carl McNeil

and I have no dealings with her either.

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And as a TD that's in the ascendancy

and for me, Carol McNeil would be

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this kind of interesting left to

field possibility for the portfolio.

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What I know nothing really

about your credentials.

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She is one of the more

well-known ministers.

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If you were to ask the average

Joe, on the street to name me

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ministers in the government.

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I think so.

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I think Jennifer Carol McNeil

would be named by many people

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as someone that people know.

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It, despite I don't think

she has a major portfolio.

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Again, I maybe I'm wrong in that, but

she's not in the big ones, you know?

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And I think she's in

the ascendancy for that.

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And if I think back to the previous

four ministers for education.

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It's been either a complete unknown

who gets the position like Joe

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McCue or Norma Foti, who nobody had

heard of before they got the jobs.

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I remember when both of them are nice.

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The first thing people did was

go to Google rather than go.

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Nah, yeah, I've heard of her.

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Or it was a very senior politician

like Richard Bruton or Rory Quinn

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who were on their last portfolio.

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That's a, who are going to go off

into the sunset and they may have

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had something to prove or some sort

of fleeting interest in education.

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And we know what Rory Quinn's,

our interests are on bridge.

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Britain's ones where both really tried

their best to push those through.

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Education in a kind of

very neglected spaces.

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I've called it.

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It might be a good opportunity for an

up and coming politician to make their

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marks such as Jennifer Carol McNeil.

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I see her as this as

someone who's up and coming.

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And I think.

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It would be.

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A calculated kind of risk.

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To put her there.

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In a way that.

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You could, she could be used by the party.

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To do something big.

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Because if it worked.

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It would keep the ascendancy going.

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And if it didn't work.

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I don't know if the fallout will be done.

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But because again, it's, I'm saying

it's only education in inverted commas.

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She's not going to crush the economy

by, taking a risk in education.

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And as I said, it's in such a tired

space, such anything we'll probably work.

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And.

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I feel , over 50 years

on since do-now Marley.

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Ma made an unpopular and risk

and a revolutionary thing

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for second level education.

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There were possibly do.

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Done O'Malley moment in special

education, or even in patronage.

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Because I think we need

a minister for education.

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Let's take special education and

then separately from patronage.

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We're definitely do a

revolution in special education.

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Like something, I don't know what

the something is, but it, I think.

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, there's something big needs to

happen in special education.

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And I feel you need a very strong

minister who will basically say

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what we're going to do is we are

going to sort as special education.

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We are going to put a teaching assistant

in every single classroom in Ireland.

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That would be.

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A big thing to do, which would help

special education out in a big way.

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And if she did that will be a

massive step for special education.

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In patronage, it would be, she could,

and again, this is something I'm

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not naive enough to think she would

come in and say, I will separate

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church and state, even if she might

believe that will be the right answer.

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But the next step for patronage.

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Is.

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Diocese.

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Any diocese basically saying we are

going to divest all of our schools to.

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Different patrons, I think

that's most likely to happen.

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And that would maybe.

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Make a fall through or

she might be braver again.

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I'm not saying this is

what she's going to do.

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I note, I don't know her from Adam.

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I just see her as someone who is

the most likely to do something

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revolutionary take a risk.

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She might actually say to the churches

as part of the abuse at scandals and

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repayments that we're going to put

in a plan in place over the next 20

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to 30 years, where the department of

education is going to buy back all of

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the schools in the country and run them.

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And finally we can get a state

run system, which will respect all

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people's rights and stop schools from

being Running around religious lines.

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I just feel she of all the 10 that we

have here, she's the most likely to do

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something risky and possibly unpopular.

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I think Rory Quinn and Richard

Bruton, both similarly tried to

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do some very Quinn started off by

saying, I'm going to make sure that

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we reduce religious girls by 50%.

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It never happens.

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Richard Bruton was really going

for gung ho about Ireland being

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the best education system in the

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these key kind of w like you've ran.

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I suppose the department education

like a business, it was interesting

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how he was doing it, but you could

definitely notice what they were doing.

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Whereas Joe McCue and Norma Foley

really just read from the script.

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And didn't do anything and kept the ship.

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On the road without

actually doing anything.

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So look, I am going on most about Jennifer

Carol McNeil, because maybe there's a

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hope in me that she will, she does have

dash She's most likely, I think because

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she's on the ascendancy to do something

big and that might be potentially.

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A stepping stone for

bigger and better things.

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And so that's why I

have her in number five.

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Let's move on.

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Number four.

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Porrick oh, Sullivan.

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Now Portico is an, is a teacher.

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Michael O'Leary would probably be

appalled at me putting him this

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high, but as an interest, do you

seem to be in special education?

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And that those two things combined.

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Might put them higher up in

the list than others who I've.

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Who've had ministries

for special education.

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Because he is a teacher,

he has been Inish.

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He gets it potentially.

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And it might, it may, because again,

it may possum prime seat for the

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junior ministry and special education.

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But it may, if.

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If it goes on, he might get the

foreign minister for education.

373

Again, his special

education is the big thing.

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When we're talking about

the minister for education.

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If we continue to have a Faena foil

Mendez for education could be him.

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It's a Phoenix Gail minister education.

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I would see him as the most likely,

possibly one of the most likely

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to get the special education post.

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So an interesting character, I

don't know very much about him

380

and funnily enough, I'm not going

on as much about him as I did.

381

As our previous person, because I

suppose he isn't that well known, but

382

an interesting character that might get

at some ministry in the education field.

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Let's move to the big three here.

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The most likely top three for the

minister for education, I'm going to

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start off with number three, which

is Thomas burned from Faena foiled.

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Because the reason I have

Thomas burn up there.

387

In a way is when finna fall did.

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Get the minister for education.

389

Back in 2020, I think it was 2020.

390

It was a kind of a surprise.

391

That Thomas burn.

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Didn't get.

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The ministry because he was Faena falls,

education spokesperson in opposition.

394

And it was Norma Foley who got the posts

instead of first time TD and Thomas Byrne.

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I think whatever it may be

rightly or wrongly have been

396

sore about the fact that he had.

397

Lots of experience and education.

398

And probably should have got the position.

399

Maybe.

400

I don't know.

401

Again.

402

I'm not quite sure.

403

And from my point of view, His

involvement in the end of the baptism

404

barrier was, it was interesting.

405

And in some ways, because he was actually

slightly, and I'm surprised at myself

406

saying this, he was slightly more

progressive than Faena Gail and Wei who

407

were in power with the baptism barrier.

408

Now I will say they felt very short

of being close to what was needed.

409

At the same time, , you have to

give some credit to a conservative

410

sort of TD , being more progressive

to another conservative TT in

411

terms of the baptism barrier.

412

And I thought Thomas Burns performance

during the baptism barrier, although not

413

revolutionary, at least he had an opinion

and he didn't shy away from that opinion.

414

And it was slightly more progressive

than Phoenix gals for those of

415

you who don't know what he did.

416

Richard Bruton was very big into

protecting minority faiths by ensuring

417

they could be discriminatory on

religious lines, on access skill,

418

Thomas Byrne disagreed with that.

419

That's basically the only difference,

which to be honest with you.

420

Anyway thomas burner has continued.

421

I feel to flourish around

the education sector.

422

Whenever there's a thing

going on in education, you see

423

Thomas burn in the background.

424

I think he did something on some sort

of PE initiative there recently enough.

425

So it wouldn't be a surprise to me.

426

If Pinafore did have the minister for the

ministry for education, that he might get

427

the post finally in favor of Norma Foley,

because I think Norma, Fody, I'm going.

428

Might have run her course at this stage.

429

And if it's a site step, I don't

think it will be a surprise to

430

see Thomas burn in the post.

431

The only thing potentially.

432

Maybe in his way is we, it will

be a male taking over from a

433

female and do we have enough?

434

Female.

435

At TDS in ministries for education,

just in terms of gender balance.

436

And that's not to say that normal

Fody might not get a promotion.

437

In fact, it's quite possible.

438

She may get a promotion.

439

I, when I say promotion I'm saying

that from the TDS point of view.

440

I wish education was seen as a promotion.

441

It's still one of those positions that

sort of, you know, top not in your top

442

portfolios, although I feel it should be.

443

But you may find Norma fairly

be moved into justice or health.

444

And then Thomas Burns slipping in there.

445

Let's say he does.

446

What would we see?

447

I don't know if we would

see anything revolutionary.

448

I don't think from my point of

view, patronage would get a look in.

449

I don't know if we, if any area really.

450

Wood.

451

You know, get a massive revolutionary.

452

I don't know if Thomas Byrne is

someone who's on the ascendancy.

453

He may very well be.

454

He may think he is.

455

I don't hear him being

pictured or spoken about.

456

As someone who's rising

in the Faena fall party.

457

And again, I could be wrong on that.

458

Maybe he's very highly

regarded and maybe he will be.

459

You know, A couple of years time

you know, he'll be the T shock and.

460

I'll be like, oh, maybe I was wrong there.

461

But right now, from what I can see,

I think is a steady pair of hands.

462

He might take over from normal,

fairly, but I don't see too many

463

changes in terms of patronage.

464

I'd say he'll do is do a Bish.

465

He'll keep the ship sailing in my view.

466

Number two, we're getting

up to the top two.

467

Who do you think it might be?

468

And number two.

469

It's a Phoenix soil.

470

TD.

471

This is who I think was most likely

to be the minister for education.

472

If it's a fan of foil politician.

473

And.

474

It's.

475

Yeah, Norma Foti.

476

Yeah, I have a sneaking suspicion.

477

That if there is no promotion in inverted

commas for Norma Fody, that she will

478

remain in education to continue her fine

work in neglecting our education system.

479

She is the thing about her.

480

I think I have to live.

481

As teachers, we live in a little

bubble, we're we think we talked

482

to teachers, we, on most days of

the week, we deal with teachers.

483

Most of the time.

484

I think she's.

485

Almost universally on

popular with teachers.

486

The thing is she's very popular.

487

With.

488

Outside of education.

489

In some ways I, I think

the media really like her.

490

And I think when people talk about

her in the media, Most of the

491

time, it's in a positive sense.

492

She shows the teachers.

493

I remember during COVID she was hailed

as standing up to those teachers and the

494

unions and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

495

I think parents like her.

496

Because she's brought in, she feels she's

brought in free school books, free school

497

lunches stuff that's popular for parents

free school buses and goodies, to I as

498

a yard stick to being a man education

minister, let's give parents free stuff.

499

And essentially, to me, I think

she's unpopular with teachers because

500

she's reduced primary education

to a really expensive childcare.

501

So free childcare service.

502

For parents rather than being

about education, about pedagogy,

503

about it being, this is the thing.

504

I think why teachers really

don't like Norma Foley.

505

And why I think parents

in Maine do like her.

506

And then the way when people speak about

education, they now talk about free stuff.

507

Free school books, free school lunches.

508

And isn't that great.

509

And when I get asked to go on the

radio, that's what people say to me.

510

Isn't a great that, when I'm

critical, isn't it great though.

511

She brought in free stuff and I'm,

it's really hard to say to people like.

512

But that's not.

513

Educational stuff.

514

That's stuff.

515

That's free stuff for parents

that reduces people's bills.

516

It doesn't increase education.

517

We've spent the last 20 years

trying to get rid of school box

518

in education where it's certainly.

519

Get rid of the reliance on

school books and now we're back.

520

To like completely relying on school

books because we have to provide them.

521

And then the school lunches, a lot

of people, I think school lunches

522

are a positive thing, by the way.

523

But I, the way they were rolled out,

I have lots of criticisms over that.

524

Bush in the main, they're

a good thing, but most.

525

Teachers I talked to about school lunches.

526

They just, all they do is focus on

the tons and tons of waste and how

527

so many families did need school

lunches and are getting them.

528

I don't, I think sometimes, I disagree

with their points on that Bush.

529

It the waste is systematic

it's because of the rollout.

530

I always argue everything has

been to do with patronage and I

531

to even include school lunches

and not the free school buses.

532

Again, I just, I'm critical of that

because we shouldn't be driving

533

children, cross counties and cross

streets to go to different schools.

534

Like not to their local school.

535

People should all go to the Roku

and that comes down to patronage.

536

But given the system that we're in.

537

You know what I feel, normal photos don't

as she's being a minister for parents

538

rather than a minister for education.

539

And I think.

540

Is that was that a calculated.

541

The calculator kind of thing.

542

It may very well have been.

543

And.

544

Would that be enough to

keep her in education?

545

The phone pouch.

546

Scandal of the budget.

547

May.

548

Have been.

549

Maybe problematic for her being carried

on as a minister for education, she kinda.

550

Dug her heels in and that rather than

going quietly, dropping on she, you

551

know, so that will work against her.

552

I feel.

553

The education debate that

happened with the Incs.

554

She really messed up on that

one re like really badly when

555

it came to the teacher crisis.

556

I know.

557

I've been talking on Ivy listening to

Norma thoroughly about the teacher crisis.

558

For five years where she denies it and

denies and denies, and she continued that.

559

In the in the education space.

560

A debate.

561

But no.

562

I only did she deny it?

563

She decided, I don't know how

she decided this was a good idea.

564

She decided to say that when people are

saying it's a crisis, She decided the

565

best comeback for that was I can some

languages, ah, That the word crisis

566

and opportunity are the same word as if

that was going to make people feel good.

567

So she may have really, I didn't

know that there were two major goths

568

and they won't do her any favors.

569

If she wants the minister for education.

570

But I can't think of too many others.

571

And I've mentioned a good few of them.

572

That are in as strong a position.

573

For the minister for education.

574

Then Norma Fody I think Thomas Byrne

and Portico a narcotic, they're

575

almost like a swap in swap out system.

576

I don't think they'd

rock any boats even cut.

577

What was the name?

578

Carla Crow as well.

579

They're just to a, it would

be more of a swap in swap out.

580

System John Conley, Nial Collins.

581

There are the other funerals.

582

None of them are like, I don't think.

583

Are going to make any changes.

584

So the way things are.

585

I, the only thing I could see is normal

photo getting , a different ministry.

586

And then one of those odds

starting into the post.

587

As a kind of a step as a,

I didn't have a stop gap.

588

Until, you got the reshuffle happen

to maybe Faena Gail got the ministry.

589

I don't know.

590

It's not a.

591

, there isn't a lot of people in Faena for.

592

Who are really making ways being

revolutionaries for education.

593

And maybe there's someone there in the

backbenches or a first-time TD the mice.

594

Might be an interesting and might.

595

I just don't know of who might

come in and revolutionize.

596

Education.

597

But if Norma Fody remained in the

position, I wouldn't really be surprised.

598

And.

599

I noticed I don't really

talk about second level.

600

Hannah riffle is really annoyed.

601

Second level with There at

her reforms and I don't.

602

And if they are going to pursue

that, continue to pursue that.

603

Normal Foley.

604

Who is, or was a secondary

school teacher might be the right

605

person to keep pushing that.

606

If that's a vision.

607

I don't know.

608

I have her as a second.

609

Favorite.

610

And as I'm speaking.

611

I still think she's there's a high risk

that she'll remain in that position,

612

but there's also a high risk that

you'll be moved to a different ministry.

613

I think she's done.

614

She's done well as a politician rather

than the minister for education.

615

And may find yourself in a, in

what's considered a higher position.

616

And I'm maybe one of the lads

that if uniform keep the ministry.

617

One of the lad, Sarah just continue

what she was already doing.

618

So in other words, I know the words

of Norma Foti, doesn't get the post.

619

I see Norma Foley remaining in the post,

just, it would be a different politician.

620

We're doing the same thing.

621

So we've gone through our top 10.

622

At number one, And maybe on

surprising to anyone who watched

623

the I N T O's education debate.

624

It's a Faena Gale minister, a.

625

Faena Gail politician.

626

And it is Patrick O.

627

Donovan who appeared on the

education debate representing Faena

628

Gail, which is probably the main

reason I have him ad number one.

629

As the potential minister for education

and When I was writing my article,

630

I said that Donovan is my favorite

to take on this road, but that

631

shouldn't read as being my favorite

in anything, but in the batting sense.

632

I would not like, and I would

say this very hand on heart.

633

I would not like Patrick O'Donovan to

be the next minister for education.

634

However, before I explain that, I

will say why there may be positives to

635

him being the minister for education.

636

He is very likely to ensure slight

improvements to special education reforms.

637

Because I think he is

capable in that sense.

638

He knows.

639

The primary education system as

a primary school teacher, I think

640

he's a primary school teacher.

641

With children.

642

In primary schools.

643

And it is possible.

644

Dash better funding will also

be something he may fight for.

645

Given that he was a former

primary school teacher.

646

However on the downside.

647

I was extremely frustrated by him

when I watched the education debate.

648

With the IMCO.

649

I particularly his attitude to

the role of religion in schools.

650

This is my main, book bear, when it comes

to primary education, this is my one.

651

When I talk about primary education,

the main thing I look at is patronage.

652

That is number one concern I have

when it comes to the education system.

653

And not just from the religious sense,

although it stands from that, but also

654

the effect the patronage has on the

education system and why we really need

655

to grasp it as a nettle and grasp it

as something that we need to focus on.

656

Unfortunately.

657

He very much defended the status

quo saying he wants his children

658

to go to a Catholic school so

they can make their sacraments.

659

And it really frustrated me because

that is the only reason he wants.

660

Or he said that he wants.

661

Catholic schools to remain because

he himself wants to outsource his

662

supposedly Catholicism or is, I don't

know what how religious he is, but I

663

S he strikes me as someone who falls

into a cultural conflict because.

664

He sees the Catholic school as a

place to outsource the sacraments to.

665

And maybe he is super religious,

but I don't think he is.

666

I'm pretty sure he isn't ad based

on what he was talking about.

667

But it just was so disappointing.

668

It was so disappointing

to see a young man.

669

Who doesn't really represent

the majority anymore.

670

Most parents.

671

And there are people between

the age of 31 and 36 these days.

672

Don't identify as as Catholic they're

only 55 as a 50, 50, 50 5% of people.

673

Debra of that age bracket ticked

Catholic in the last sentence.

674

And that doesn't mean that

they're like religious Catholic.

675

Like I remember about 30% of

people who say they're Catholic.

676

Are traditionally Catholic

not culturally Catholic.

677

So you're looking at a very kind of

small percentage of people who cherish

678

Catholicism and it's it's because I

don't, maybe he is one of those people.

679

I don't really know.

680

And I'd love to have a chat to him

about it if whether or not she

681

becomes the minister of education

and really addressed that.

682

Oh no.

683

When he was asked about patronage,

that it was all about him and

684

his needs and there was no.

685

There's just not a single kind of.

686

I don't know there wasn't

a single kind of thought.

687

For anyone that wasn't a cultural

Catholic or even a strong Catholic about

688

wanting a Catholic school and no irony.

689

Around the fact that His own situation

being more important than the

690

situation of anyone else around him.

691

And I was it always, it led me

to a question about them and I'm

692

going to do an article on this.

693

About if Patrick O'Donovan happened

not to be parched, go Donovan.

694

And I happened to be I

don't know, let's say.

695

Someone who isn't Catholic.

696

A non-Catholic Patrick or Donovan, let's

say someone church, a church of Ireland

697

at Patrick O'Donovan or a Muslim Pachuco

Donovan or an atheist Patrica Donovan.

698

Where he lives.

699

He lives in new castle,

west in county, Limerick.

700

By the way, I'm not stalking

that's public information.

701

And new castle west in county, Limerick.

702

I don't know very much about the area, but

I, my, my sense and I've driven through

703

it is that there's a guayle school there.

704

I know there's Glasgow

there because I've visited.

705

And that's a Catholic girls school.

706

It's not a multi-denominational

bowel skull, I think.

707

I'll have to check that out,

but I'm 99% sure of that.

708

And there's Catholic

schools and I'm not sure.

709

I, there may be a church of Aaron's good.

710

I don't know, but I'm going

to, I'm going to find out this.

711

So with Patrika Donovan.

712

It was an atheist.

713

What school.

714

Where would you have to, he would

have to ensure for its children to be

715

insured, or if equal respect and skill.

716

He went to dry from Newcastle

west, into Limerick city every day.

717

And I can imagine that journey takes

quite some time with traffic or

718

he may have to drive out to Ennis.

719

I think that might be on his way.

720

Another bit of a journey as well.

721

At to ensure his children

were treated with equality.

722

Similarly.

723

We would have now maybe I'm wrong.

724

There might be a an education

guide to scooter, a community

725

national school it'll coaster.

726

And this is why I have to do the article.

727

My sense is that there are the two

most There are the two schools.

728

That at least are going to be

half an hour of a drive every day.

729

To there and back in order to

be treated with equal spec.

730

Similarly, if he was a Muslim or

Jewish or some other faith that

731

isn't Catholic and I the challenge,

I would have to Patrick, a donor and

732

I'm actually going to pick on them.

733

If he is the minister for education I, I.

734

About that sentence, that I'm Catholic.

735

And I want my children to go to a

Catholic school so they can make

736

their sacraments quote unquote.

737

And I want to think, I want

you to think about that.

738

If he wasn't Catholic and how

non-Catholic people in Newcastle

739

west feel about that opinion.

740

Now he would probably say that never

comes to his door, but it's not

741

about the P I always say you have

to think, and I say this to my staff.

742

I say this to people around me.

743

About what you do when you're

taught, when you were thinking

744

about Religion and schools are, when

you're thinking about talking about

745

religion or thinking about your own.

746

Th whatever your religion might be, you

don't just think about the people that

747

are in front of you, the people who are.

748

Who you're speaking to.

749

You always think about the people

who aren't in front of you.

750

They're as important.

751

And often they don't have

the confidence to speak up.

752

They're the people who

are in the background.

753

Because they are in the

background, not because they

754

choose to be in the background.

755

There's the people who don't want to

raise their head above the power pitch

756

because they're already vulnerable.

757

To the likes of I'm a Catholic.

758

I want my kids to go to a Catholic

school to make their sacraments.

759

Arguing against that.

760

As a minority faith.

761

Only gets you the sort of response that

I, January gastro disease is a Catholic

762

country and go away, get back to your own

country and then all that sort of stuff.

763

It's not what most people want to hear.

764

Anyway.

765

Whatever tiny progress is

being made in this area.

766

In terms of the Phoenix Delphina gal.

767

Government is just.

768

It's not good.

769

It's not happening.

770

And any progress that was being made we

had our first educate together school

771

divested from the Catholic church in 2023.

772

Or 2024, actually this year.

773

Warren educate go to school in 11 years

was divested from the Catholic church.

774

That's the level of tiny progress.

775

I actually think even that tiny amount

of progress is going to be curtailed

776

by that attitude of I'm a Catholic.

777

I want my child to go to a Catholic

school to make their sacraments,

778

that cultural Catholic sentence.

779

Of not thinking about anyone

outside of your own house.

780

And.

781

I don't see any kind of mentioned

progress on patron is now in the finagle

782

manifesto, which means that it's gone

783

And with O'Donovan at the rains, I

see little hope of anything positive

784

for the thousands of families and

teachers, because teachers who

785

are also affected, I don't think

Patrick would don't even realize is

786

when he wants to send his conflict.

787

Census children's Catholic schools

that the teachers who are teaching this

788

Catholic stuff may not believe the stuff

that he wants them to do so effectively.

789

We've got non-believers

teaching non-believers about.

790

To prepare them for the

sacraments and it's just.

791

But the attitudes that, that is still

there and I keep going on about.

792

There are teachers very much

effected by this patronage model.

793

And I'm going to mention

education equality.

794

And I think I'm going to be mentioning

education equality, the lobby group.

795

In almost every podcast I

do and patients, they are.

796

They are a super group who are

collecting story after story, horrific

797

stories of our teachers and parents

and children have to go through as

798

not being part of the status quo.

799

In fact, this week as I'm

recording one of the most.

800

Shocking stories of all.

801

And it's it's I suppose as

things go viral it's as viral

802

as these sort of things, gash.

803

Was the story of a teacher

who wrote to education.

804

Telling him telling them.

805

That she was in her costume and the

priest rocked in and took over the cost

806

and started asking the children to raise

her as a teacher and this kind of stuff.

807

That goes on and that's

just one of many stories.

808

Where a teacher.

809

Who was working in a Catholic

school, whether they're Catholic

810

or not is being undermined by the

structures of the Catholic church in

811

is where you feel you are silenced.

812

You cannot talk.

813

About your about four.

814

Some stuff like, nevermind whether,

you might not be Catholic or

815

practice, but even if you're doing

things that are slightly against the

816

Catholic church's teachings now about

living with your partner not being

817

married or whatever it might be.

818

There's still some teachers that

don't talk about that just in case.

819

The there's a very overzealous priest

on the board who might frown upon that.

820

Or maybe you might get a principal who's

fairly overzealous, or maybe you won't

821

have one now, but might have one in the

future and you have to protect yourself.

822

All of that.

823

I am saying.

824

Is Patrico Donovan's source of when

he made that sentence, that's the

825

sort of stuff I was thinking about

it, but it still makes him the favors.

826

To be the next minister for education.

827

I do believe the next minutes

of our education is likely

828

to be a fan of Gail minister.

829

He seems to be given.

830

He was the one that was put

forward for the primary education

831

debate to be the born in.

832

I had to be the one in there.

833

He has experienced as a minister.

834

So there's dot going forum.

835

And I suppose he probably is

on the ascendancy he's he was a

836

younger from what I was reading.

837

He was one of those

rising stars in the past.

838

He's now coming of age

and all the rest of us.

839

So look, I guess having said all

of all that you know, I think

840

we might, that's why he's my

favorite to take on the position.

841

I'm not sure what you all think.

842

Maybe you think differently.

843

I'd be very interested in hearing

about who you think will be the

844

next minister for education.

845

I'm putting my I'm putting my bets

on Patrika Donovan to be named

846

the next minister for education.

847

Obviously, if the social Democrats

or the labor party do go into

848

coalition, I will change this

because I would see the minister

849

of education going to one of those.

850

They have plans.

851

They have progressive plans that I

don't think Faena file and Finnegan.

852

God wants to touch.

853

But they would be wise enough to know that

this is something that needs to happen.

854

And why not blame it on a labor or

a social Democrat, whereas I was

855

woke parties as they might call

them for trying to push that in.

856

That's what requeen

857

It didn't punish maybe 15 years

later for nearly 15 years ago,

858

we were in a different bracket.

859

, look, I think I've spoken.

860

A lot here.

861

I don't know how many Akash

I'm nearly an hour into this.

862

A fairly long, top 10.

863

I hope you've enjoyed my ponderings.

864

I should have one more episode before

865

the year, that was, I'd be interested to

hear what your highlights or lowlights

866

were from the education in 2024.

867

I'm an interesting year

in education, maybe.

868

And until then I will chat to you then.

869

Thank you so much for listening

all the very best bye-bye.