Shownotes
Justin (and Jem) make a big confession. They also realize sales by business owner is a tool for control. The YCM makes a big aluminum part and Nack might attend a Makers Market that ignites from the +100ºF heat in Portland.
DISCUSSED:
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Please note: Show notes contains affiliate links.
- Nack Maker Fair Prep
- Continued Benefits from Business Coaching
- Jem handing off HR to Sarah
- Mill setups
- Custom Tools are a great deal
- Justin makes a Confession
- Jem makes a Confession
- Penta Machine Company
- Hiring for Sales - Chicken and Egg
- Owner Control by owning sales
- We're "special" is maybe more a feeling than
- We're also stifling our potential (Justin is)
- Commissions? - Bad for team moral?
- Qualify Harder
- Follow Ups - By Phone is Huge Conversion Boost (LB)
- Video Recording to go with Quote
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Show Info
HOSTS
Jem Freeman
Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia
Like Butter | Instagram | More Links
Justin Brouillette
Portland, Oregon, USA
Transcripts
the
Speaker:sure.
Speaker:opening air table.
Speaker:It's like real warm here yesterday.
Speaker:think it over 90 degrees in the shop itself.
Speaker:So it's like, what do we got?
Speaker:That's 32 degrees in down under units.
Speaker:That is pretty warm.
Speaker:Anything 30 is
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Same here.
Speaker:It's supposed to be have part of our crazy this week is we have like a maker's
Speaker:fair market thing on the weekend, which is gonna be fun, but it's always just
Speaker:a lot of stress getting everything ready, and it's supposed to be 101
Speaker:that day, and we're gonna be outside the entire day under like a tent.
Speaker:So I'm trying figure out how survive that without having
Speaker:Ricky quit on me or something.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:I'm just kind of, I don't I'm trying to debate whether anybody's gonna come.
Speaker:we're pretty fair.
Speaker:Whether people in the Northwest, I don't know,
Speaker:to and
Speaker:mix of will there
Speaker:mostly more handmade things.
Speaker:We're kind of maybe on the edge of acceptable, I suppose, since we use.
Speaker:CNCS to make much of our stuff, but I mean, we'll have the kn wall there.
Speaker:like I mentioned that last time, like trying to get that out there
Speaker:so that hopefully be able to sell it and have people like play with
Speaker:it a little bit more hands on than prior we did like, Hey, look at it.
Speaker:And just someday this will be available now.
Speaker:It's my challenge is to like actually have prices and be able have people,
Speaker:hopefully if we can like work out all the kinks of figuring that out,
Speaker:like actually basically pre-order it for like local delivery or pick up.
Speaker:That's my hope.
Speaker:So that's exciting.
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:And you have you done this fair before?
Speaker:yeah, so we did it's happens at different times of the year.
Speaker:So we did one that was like a winter market version, but it was
Speaker:out in like our, one of our lumber.
Speaker:Suppliers warehouse cause it was COVID So it was like, nobody
Speaker:really wanted inside anywhere.
Speaker:So that was where we showed.
Speaker:I think I put a time lapse of putting together the kn wall last time.
Speaker:And that was, that was that one.
Speaker:We ended up finding out that people thought that the ChemX rest were like
Speaker:actually a product rather than like me just thinking like, Hey, maybe somebody
Speaker:will like this so that was kind of nice.
Speaker:We had a bunch of those,
Speaker:Okay
Speaker:products
Speaker:when we used to do markety things, I used to very much enjoy the engagement with
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:like conversations.
Speaker:Having to sort of explain your products in person someone
Speaker:who's never seen them before.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:that stuff I found really valuable.
Speaker:I found them utterly useless from a sales perspective, though, rule
Speaker:thinking.
Speaker:I just lost a whole day, or more depending on, you know, how much prep went into it.
Speaker:of
Speaker:was fun and had some good conversations, but whatever, and it was always really
Speaker:hard to tell what the re the overflow return was of how many of those
Speaker:people then reengaged with the bus
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:later date or the, the weeks after that?
Speaker:did you find, if I hear what you're saying, did you, you never like
Speaker:turned a profit on the, the event and all the things leading up?
Speaker:Yeah, that's what I always feel like happens.
Speaker:Like it's kind of we were walking around like a vintage flea markety
Speaker:thing when we were on vacation, Hey, Ricky's gonna make a, a show.
Speaker:Hey, doing the podcast.
Speaker:It's alright.
Speaker:That's Ricky he was out running Sam errs and I said to my wife, I was do you,
Speaker:know, what's, what's the situation here is none of these people that sell stuff
Speaker:in these little booths make any money.
Speaker:They just it's like a storage Basically.
Speaker:It's like, they're paying to keep their stuff in these places.
Speaker:And then house makes, you know, a decent amount of profit every month.
Speaker:Cuz all they need to do is sell floor space, like a storage unit,
Speaker:which is very popular in America.
Speaker:As people put their stuff in storage and I, it just hit me finally.
Speaker:I was like, oh yeah, there's no way that each of these little vendors is selling
Speaker:enough that they're making a profit.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Yeah, I think look, yeah, not to be pessimistic, but I think those markets
Speaker:were important to us at one point,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:as we were building the brand and getting our name out there.
Speaker:Definitely.
Speaker:They were certain, yeah, they were definitely useful.
Speaker:I think, from a brand building
Speaker:I always find feeling of which we've talked about a lot in the
Speaker:last, like the last time we did it.
Speaker:And now this time I just, I think about like putting myself in the place of a
Speaker:customer walking up and going, like, it's a pretty, you know, pretty big
Speaker:ask for somebody to like, maybe they're thinking of I'll, I'll buy a cutting
Speaker:board or like some, you know, lip balm or like something more like, I don't
Speaker:know, easy to just purchase off the whim.
Speaker:And I know it's a big ask for them to go, Hey, what, what do you think
Speaker:about a storage system for your house?
Speaker:goes on your wall.
Speaker:, Yep
Speaker:I'm just kind of hoping to get some conversations.
Speaker:And one of my goals was to be able to potentially get people's feedback.
Speaker:Have them physically play with it and see, like, what would you put on this?
Speaker:What a be ideal kind of like capture that?
Speaker:stick to
Speaker:yeah, exactly.
Speaker:And if we happen a couple then sweet.
Speaker:Yeah, just get eyeballs on it,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:get it into the world.
Speaker:It's good.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:how are things going for you?
Speaker:You make me miss markets now.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Damn you.
Speaker:You could, you could start a market of your own,
Speaker:the butter market.
Speaker:constant Instagram posts with low engagement.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Lower and lower engagement.
Speaker:Every time you post it's fun.
Speaker:different vibe.
Speaker:Isn't it?
Speaker:Oh, tell me about it.
Speaker:Amazing.
Speaker:I'm good.
Speaker:Had a good week.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Good.
Speaker:after recording last week, we had improvement day, just coming
Speaker:around really fast at the moment, possibly too fast, too regular.
Speaker:There was a bit of chatter last week about like, do we actually
Speaker:need to do this every month?
Speaker:Or can we do it on a sort of as needs basis?
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I've been dedicating my workshop improvement
Speaker:like
Speaker:as kind of a dedicated clean day just to shoot new photos,
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:which I really like the rhythm of that.
Speaker:So I'd like to stick to a monthly shoot, even if we shift the, the
Speaker:lean day out a little bit, but had a good shoot last week, new products.
Speaker:no You've been pumping out lot of photos for
Speaker:I think I I away from those days with about six or 700
Speaker:shots, most of which are rubish.
Speaker:And then I slowly pick through them over the following weeks and
Speaker:out a handful of decent stuff.
Speaker:But it was really, it was good.
Speaker:good day in the workshop, getting things further along and improved.
Speaker:as a
Speaker:It was good.
Speaker:changes happening here at we had our, sense would
Speaker:haven't been in that long, but
Speaker:quite prepared and
Speaker:usually working in
Speaker:okay.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:she hung
Speaker:A local
Speaker:our
Speaker:we do repeat very positive.
Speaker:And our basically like, guys really well,
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:You need to And his push
Speaker:Oh,
Speaker:guys.
Speaker:oh, profit or revenue.
Speaker:this.
Speaker:Same.
Speaker:Same.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But it's like, it's gotta be one of those things.
Speaker:Any type of coach, right?
Speaker:It's like your basketball or soccer coach where they're never gonna be happy.
Speaker:if they were, you would probably be like, all right, you're not a very good coach.
Speaker:We're done with you.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah,
Speaker:new therapist.
Speaker:We've done everything.
Speaker:having
Speaker:just
Speaker:you, that participates, right?
Speaker:No,
Speaker:Oh, Sarah.
Speaker:Sorry.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm very jealous of that.
Speaker:I gotta find something like that here.
Speaker:Cuz I feel that just chatting with a couple of friends, about business things
Speaker:and I just constantly have that feeling of like, I need what you've described.
Speaker:Like somebody to, I have another one of my friends was like, they literally
Speaker:tell me like, don't worry about this, you know, situation or that situation
Speaker:like keep moving forwards with this.
Speaker:Ricky's great to chat with, but you know, he.
Speaker:Doesn't sit around and think about the things I do all day.
Speaker:And so it's just somebody to help focus those thoughts a little
Speaker:bit more with too many ideas.
Speaker:Usually the problem,
Speaker:I highly recommend
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:talking about it and do it
Speaker:yeah, that, that progress
Speaker:I just around who does
Speaker:had quite a lot of overlap, which can be seen as inefficient in
Speaker:terms of who's responsible for what so in what is a fairly big
Speaker:move I've I've handed HR to Sarah.
Speaker:our workshop
Speaker:that's which feels massive.
Speaker:Like.
Speaker:Not that it's not that it's a great deal of time in my but
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:Does that include,
Speaker:days to
Speaker:kind of thing.
Speaker:Not just Yeah,
Speaker:really good having in that role, cuz she'll actually have even just
Speaker:little things like actually calling the people back who email us, looking
Speaker:for work like, tend to sit in the
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Sam.
Speaker:no
Speaker:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker:great.
Speaker:And
Speaker:out not to go back the makers fair get stressed out.
Speaker:I wanna do really want to pay off know, and financial be ideal, like
Speaker:some of the small goals have then I always feel like I'm just like, not
Speaker:for it as it gets closer and closer.
Speaker:So that's how in my mind, and I'm doing the other thing that's newish for my
Speaker:normal I'm making a rather large part for.
Speaker:we
Speaker:that work for out of aluminum.
Speaker:That is, and,
Speaker:coach was
Speaker:have basically
Speaker:you too
Speaker:fixturing on the mill.
Speaker:And I think, honestly, Andy those on, dialed them in.
Speaker:don't know that I've dialed the device in yet.
Speaker:I, I know the process, I just So I have take them off and then
Speaker:put one back on to finish it.
Speaker:so I'm like have, I sure has to come off.
Speaker:And I like tried to find a way to put both vices on to hold the part, but I bought
Speaker:one Kurt vice one came with the machine.
Speaker:I thought they were close enough And they actually are just different generations.
Speaker:And so they don't align
Speaker:What am what
Speaker:Y axis.
Speaker:They're like a little bit off.
Speaker:you can't use them in, in tandem unless you're using only
Speaker:one face, I need to move 'em.
Speaker:Cause it's so big.
Speaker:been like,
Speaker:at
Speaker:I I go out there and stare at for a while and I'm like, Hmm, now that won't work.
Speaker:And then I like move the jaw faces in the new position, thought that'll work.
Speaker:And then I, like, I went out there and put the piece in there and it
Speaker:was like, oh, it doesn't align.
Speaker:And just had to like work backwards to figure out to do it and then
Speaker:ask some friends, like, can put the metal right on the table?
Speaker:Like, is that right?
Speaker:And they're like, yeah, I just don't cut the table.
Speaker:And I'm like, well, yeah.
Speaker:I mean, I get that, get that part.
Speaker:Try not to cut my tables.
Speaker:I, you know, I enjoy that challenge, it's like when enough of those things hit at
Speaker:the same time, you're like, all right.
Speaker:One of these challenges has to be resolved soon here and I
Speaker:have to finish that part today.
Speaker:So deal.
Speaker:I don't think.
Speaker:You're saying you've never put a, a big bit of car buy
Speaker:through your shop saver table.
Speaker:Oh, I have, yeah, I'm the only one.
Speaker:I believe that's cut the finale table.
Speaker:I think I'm surprisingly, I would've expected somebody else to have by now.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think I'm the same.
Speaker:I think I'm the culprit the big gouges aluminum bed.
Speaker:or we just don't hear about it, but I haven't seen the
Speaker:Ricky had a band saw blade.
Speaker:We've been keeping the lights off in the shop.
Speaker:We have a warm.
Speaker:And I was walking by and you had changed the bandsaw blade
Speaker:and like brought that back there to, you know, bundle it back up.
Speaker:And it was sitting on the table, big thing, 111
Speaker:review
Speaker:just reflected in a weird way.
Speaker:And I thought that there was giant circle, cut it in the finale.
Speaker:stopped.
Speaker:And I was like, Rick, Ricky, I thought cut into the table.
Speaker:It's just a bill.
Speaker:And he is like, he started laughing at me.
Speaker:Nope, would've told you about that.
Speaker:And I was okay, I'm just seeing things now.
Speaker:the most expensive
Speaker:but I do on interface
Speaker:oh
Speaker:we've seen that stuff part line the camera, we can just
Speaker:good.
Speaker:on
Speaker:around probe this and then this is the stock
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It
Speaker:it's great deal
Speaker:Our friend, Nick, I think it's PKI.
Speaker:I've learned a lot machining from him.
Speaker:I, he just he'll answer any question I have about Mill's super guy he just got
Speaker:a data on and that thing is fantastic
Speaker:be
Speaker:Yeah, so fast and like the, I think where it's appealing to maybe
Speaker:people like too is, is really.
Speaker:The touch.
Speaker:Screen's great.
Speaker:probings great.
Speaker:fast, but it has vacuum in too.
Speaker:Like they have vacuum plates.
Speaker:Those cards are so
Speaker:and
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I've always been intrigued by that, that
Speaker:and just
Speaker:how it works.
Speaker:I was messaging Nick about project I'm doing right now.
Speaker:He's like, well, how, when do you need it done by?
Speaker:And I was like, oh, like Wednesday.
Speaker:And he is like, oh shoot.
Speaker:Yeah, I could have it.
Speaker:I could make that for you so fast.
Speaker:was like, yeah, but I got this machine that like, I need to learn how
Speaker:Touse really well, I know your Tron could do it in like three seconds.
Speaker:Not even need a second fixture, but yeah.
Speaker:I think it's good.
Speaker:I feel I did, unfortunately, just break a tool right before this.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:I think I must have had a, it too deep.
Speaker:I was making a little fixture for the second op, but it is very
Speaker:satisfying when you get something made on it still it's like.
Speaker:We it's.
Speaker:I think it's because it's so common that the router isn't as satisfying,
Speaker:but to do, but it's like something about cutting metal into very precise
Speaker:shapes it seems hard, you know,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:an interesting go with on the mill?
Speaker:Like, where to
Speaker:Nick was super helpful.
Speaker:Once again, he, he sent me his tool list cause I was, I had the same question
Speaker:I asked like three or four people.
Speaker:I was like, where would you buy tools from?
Speaker:Cause I dunno if you have problem there, but there's this like
Speaker:silly thing that still exists where you have to like buy from.
Speaker:a brand will exist and then you can't buy from them directly.
Speaker:You have to buy from somebody, some dealer.
Speaker:And I was like, wait, there are some brands that let you just buy direct.
Speaker:So I kind of went that way.
Speaker:It was like, I use some decent tool stuff.
Speaker:And then we have a local tooling vendor that I have started to lean
Speaker:on more and more, which is great.
Speaker:It's like, Hey guy, that I talk to there, like uh, I'm gonna cut
Speaker:this and I need this much cut.
Speaker:And he's like, all right, here's two tools to choose from.
Speaker:And I'm like, yes, it's so easy.
Speaker:leaning on vendors
Speaker:So good.
Speaker:relationship going.
Speaker:you just got of tooling reps now that he talks to regularly been
Speaker:getting more custom tools made, cuz they're not that expensive.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:need a specific profile or like the thread mill that we use
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Here and it's quite
Speaker:It's
Speaker:cuz I literally couldn't find an Australian tool vendor sold a we've
Speaker:since I don't know if they've arrived yet, we've commissioned custom
Speaker:ones from an Australian vendor.
Speaker:You found, you found.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Ooh,
Speaker:when it comes to
Speaker:see.
Speaker:good work.
Speaker:Hopefully they work,
Speaker:one custom tool for our iMac basis and it's not like complicated,
Speaker:but it's few hundred bucks cuz we only have one in one it's just
Speaker:solid three quarter inch carbide.
Speaker:That's like five or six inches long.
Speaker:So it's mostly, feels like you're just paying for the carbide in that situation.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Just make some buttery smooth compared to a bunch of step downs.
Speaker:does that mean you are just finishing that
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Yeah, it's Uhhuh, it's like a giant three quarter inch rougher.
Speaker:well, I mean that the collection of tools used for that op those
Speaker:set of operations tool sets
Speaker:love
Speaker:But it meant going
Speaker:data in terms
Speaker:like three
Speaker:like
Speaker:a thousand dollars
Speaker:and it's a lot of them, we reuse those tools all except for the
Speaker:custom tool, like all of 'em.
Speaker:We used that roughing tool all the time.
Speaker:That was like $300.
Speaker:But
Speaker:yeah,
Speaker:go a long even if don't
Speaker:Hmm
Speaker:a three
Speaker:I to a cart like five or six delivered
Speaker:we have a contractor machine,
Speaker:Oh,
Speaker:that
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:timber
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:fronts to do
Speaker:Does a good job.
Speaker:That that's been shocking on that note for me.
Speaker:How long tools last in aluminum, particularly like
Speaker:it, I would've never guessed.
Speaker:They last this long and I've been using a rougher.
Speaker:It's like it's a three, eight inch rougher, three flu.
Speaker:I think I'm on first or second one since I got the machine and
Speaker:it's just, it just keeps going.
Speaker:Like, I look at it every once in a while I like expect it to be
Speaker:chipped like a compression cutter or something and like, it's fine.
Speaker:okay, just keep going.
Speaker:yep.
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:I guess cutting play would probably generate a lot more
Speaker:heat heat than a cool and fed
Speaker:I guess
Speaker:meal, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:quandary.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:I mean, obviously you can, you can really like
Speaker:How do you tool selection
Speaker:are formed, I like in aluminum,
Speaker:clue
Speaker:at some point the wood breaks and turns into a dust or like something else.
Speaker:So that may, may be true.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I remember my sort of broke my brain a little bit in a good way when started
Speaker:using fusion, which was around the same time that I started kind of really
Speaker:understanding like feed per tooth and chip load and stuff like that.
Speaker:And I remember like some aluminum and pulling a chip off the table and going,
Speaker:oh, if I measure the thickness of that chip, it should kind of compute to the
Speaker:I
Speaker:Oh, wow.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:availability quite
Speaker:amazing
Speaker:crazy.
Speaker:You say that I've never thought of it that way, but that's a great learning
Speaker:to like train somebody with like, cuz I that inch per tooth or whatever you
Speaker:call it feed per tooth is a confusing
Speaker:is
Speaker:with somebody learning.
Speaker:I remember going through
Speaker:decent
Speaker:That's a great, yeah, should try
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's hard to do with plywood,
Speaker:of
Speaker:but like
Speaker:the
Speaker:Let me go You can't measure.
Speaker:Yeah, can't.
Speaker:There's no more.
Speaker:We also compact your for you?
Speaker:Oh cool.
Speaker:It's got it like a briquette maker in line.
Speaker:single point
Speaker:going too far with the, the baby part of that.
Speaker:I to
Speaker:for you.
Speaker:Uh, So my
Speaker:confession, is after,
Speaker:14 months of working on CAD files to make my own cabinets
Speaker:for our kitchen renovation.
Speaker:My wife, my wife convinced me to buy Ikea cabinets.
Speaker:So we have it.
Speaker:It's so shockingly cheap, like I know particle board melamine.
Speaker:It's not heritage quality materials.
Speaker:my word, it was like, I think last, like basically this time, last week she
Speaker:asked me, like, for real, she's been asking me jokingly for a long time.
Speaker:And I kept going like kind of full of like, you know, pride, like, no I'm
Speaker:making our cabinets, you know, like I have the machines, I can do it.
Speaker:And I've been banging my head against how to make them really dynamically
Speaker:in fusion and through a multitude of ways I could straight up, you
Speaker:know, have 'em done right now.
Speaker:But I was, I kept trying to push it farther and farther, like be able to like
Speaker:have different thing, different features.
Speaker:And yeah, it was about a, about maybe Wednesday last week.
Speaker:And she asked me again, cuz
Speaker:look
Speaker:we would like done.
Speaker:said finally had added it all This is this is the turning point.
Speaker:And it was like, Just like less than the material gonna use for
Speaker:finished cabinets And I was like, And then she's like, yeah, they could
Speaker:deliver it like Tuesday next week.
Speaker:And I was what God.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And I like really had to like sit there and I can't with that.
Speaker:You know, like, I wasn't like I thought it was saving us some money
Speaker:by doing it ourselves, you know, obviously versus like company cabinets.
Speaker:But when it was, I think it ended up being $2,200.
Speaker:We don't have a very kitchen, but I'm still gonna make the some bamboo,
Speaker:fronts and I'll still make those.
Speaker:But yeah, all the boxes with all the hardware, it's
Speaker:like $2,200 for our kitchen.
Speaker:And that was like less than the material for the boxes that I was gonna buy.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:What, what material
Speaker:yeah, So
Speaker:I had some like apple pie because, oh, I did not need it to be
Speaker:that, but it was like available last August when I bought it.
Speaker:So I gotta resell that too.
Speaker:Cause it's been taken up storage space,
Speaker:that's the quandary.
Speaker:I think you've made the right decision for sure.
Speaker:Yeah
Speaker:I've got a multitude of home projects that are hanging over me at the moment, and
Speaker:some of them are cabinet making based.
Speaker:But yeah, I did.
Speaker:I made, I didn't go to the Ikea.
Speaker:low, but I, college university
Speaker:Sick burn by Jem.
Speaker:process this I start a new list
Speaker:Maloon board for all my carcasses that I made last year throughout
Speaker:lounge room base cabinets.
Speaker:I was just such, such a joy to machine and it's like beautiful
Speaker:vacuum hold down and, and edge banded it all contour and installed it.
Speaker:And it was great.
Speaker:It was good.
Speaker:do have to make some of and the right
Speaker:should be
Speaker:I do have to, I don't know what that system, it's like a, it's almost like
Speaker:LA Melo that they use, you know, with the, like twist lock thing that goes
Speaker:in, I have to do some customization of a couple like pieces, so I'm gonna try to
Speaker:replicate their, whatever their system is.
Speaker:But cause I have to cut the top and the bottom to like
Speaker:shorten a couple pieces like,
Speaker:I you're gonna try and make parts that work
Speaker:yeah,
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:I don't know how gonna go, that cabinet's
Speaker:of applies
Speaker:So I was like worst case scenario.
Speaker:I remake cabinet, I guess.
Speaker:Or buy another?
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:Try it again.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, that's the nice thing about base cabinets, right?
Speaker:You can kind of hack them up and put 'em back together again.
Speaker:And then by the time everything's
Speaker:Beautiful
Speaker:in
Speaker:so hidden.
Speaker:I I'd say that.
Speaker:You know, I really wanted to be completely transparent.
Speaker:I really wanted to come out with this video.
Speaker:Like I made cabinets with fusion finally, like, cause you, I haven't
Speaker:people like accomplish it in a dynamic and like Rob Lockwood doing some cool
Speaker:stuff and I kind of copied his idea and we were working on it kind of
Speaker:collectively because he's trying to build some stuff for his house too.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And so I, yeah, it was kind of like a point of pride to
Speaker:like, make something out of it.
Speaker:And I still, you know, I still may try and do it on a smaller scale, but I
Speaker:just kept outta like juice on I, you know, it'd be a weekend and be like,
Speaker:oh, I need to work on the cabinets.
Speaker:I'd just be like, I do not wanna open infusion right now.
Speaker:Like do that all week.
Speaker:So it's been really good.
Speaker:Like as soon as we decided we sat on the couch Saturday and ordered
Speaker:it and I was like, Ugh, I don't have to think about that anymore.
Speaker:It's like constant pressure.
Speaker:That's gone.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:That's been nice.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, Erin kept joking.
Speaker:She's like, I'm just gonna go sneak in a request or Ricky and like
Speaker:have him make him on the side.
Speaker:And I was like, you wouldn't.
Speaker:Did you make much of the furniture for your home?
Speaker:Like cabinets and things.
Speaker:wanna it
Speaker:house.
Speaker:so
Speaker:It's
Speaker:yep.
Speaker:see new things
Speaker:basically fully furnished
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Makes sense.
Speaker:three monthly and I to rebuild my
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:oh
Speaker:I don't guilty
Speaker:to you know it's like
Speaker:yeah, no, I love that.
Speaker:bankruptcy of task list stuff.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:work flowing.
Speaker:Are you?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I tend to, like this week, I got stressed out by how many things I have to do.
Speaker:And it's like the place I dump my thoughts, cuz you
Speaker:can reorganize it so easily.
Speaker:So I have this and then I like Rick never uses it.
Speaker:We don't use it for business reasons.
Speaker:And I like just shared him a link to it as like here, this is what
Speaker:I've been like planning with.
Speaker:I don't wanna put it in an air table.
Speaker:Just look at this, these lists so easy.
Speaker:did you like copy everything over or start?
Speaker:Totally fresh and like disregard the last?
Speaker:I triaged and only copied what I felt was most important, which wasn't
Speaker:very much just dumped the rest of it.
Speaker:That I haven't deleted anything out Yet another like skeleton archive
Speaker:of things that will now collect dust until I come crawling back to
Speaker:air table in another three months, having got sick of work flowing
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:onwards.
Speaker:I think it's just part of my process now.
Speaker:It's just quarterly to do reset.
Speaker:I've been, I've been doing that early It just, I, my brain hits
Speaker:a limit and I'm like, I can't
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:How we do it?
Speaker:You talking about machine set before, or?
Speaker:No, it was when you're talking about the, the draft angle on
Speaker:the iMac basis and custom tool.
Speaker:I just had like, quite a sort of visceral response of like, damn I missed machining
Speaker:you're gonna have to bring like a little desktop machine into your, whole
Speaker:office that you don't get to go out.
Speaker:Yeah, you got a little Chipo in there and make some draft angles.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:I just need to be consistent with my R and D time.
Speaker:Make sure I get out in that time slot and play on
Speaker:sure.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:the only one Other people have been running production
Speaker:parts on it, but I've been the
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like
Speaker:or making a, is how I take the You
Speaker:infusion.
Speaker:This is what code in visual
Speaker:I I'd
Speaker:like modify the code like this and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker:So
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I
Speaker:slowly transferring
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:That's awesome.
Speaker:yeah, I just gotta get like five
Speaker:and then be my new play thing.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Mm-hmm yeah, no, that's the, well, the depends on the size of parts.
Speaker:I think we talked about that before you can get the, what do they,
Speaker:this change their name, pocket.
Speaker:NC is now Penta machining, but that's, I supposedly they're gonna
Speaker:Penta machining or Penta machines.
Speaker:P E NT a.
Speaker:Which I'll never remember probably now.
Speaker:it it
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They're supposedly gonna have it.
Speaker:This honestly like made, I don't think I buy it.
Speaker:I just an interesting idea.
Speaker:I like to like that, they're supposedly gonna have it at IMTS in Chicago in the
Speaker:fall, which is like two months now away.
Speaker:And I've
Speaker:debating, debating whether to go cause like the flights go up and
Speaker:down pretty, pretty cheap, honestly.
Speaker:And I need nothing really.
Speaker:Like, it's just social something.
Speaker:Interesting.
Speaker:And it's been so long do any of that.
Speaker:Like you went, right.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They're supposed, they're supposedly gonna have one there.
Speaker:I'm back in
Speaker:Yeah, me too.
Speaker:We talked about it a little bit.
Speaker:Last time, the chicken and egg sales person hiring scenario, I'm curious, you
Speaker:said you were potentially hiring and I'm always thinking, like, I always want to
Speaker:be hiring for this, like a, to generate more sales B to take it off my plate.
Speaker:Like I just want somebody else to do it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:funny one.
Speaker:I there's a reason
Speaker:the last position.
Speaker:Business owners hang onto.
Speaker:of air table just
Speaker:And yes, it's our intention to hire for this in the coming three to six months.
Speaker:But it's, I think a massive challenge, cuz yeah, I dunno legacy sort of process
Speaker:speaking here, but like feel like, I guess everyone probably feels like their
Speaker:process is special and hard to replace.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So there's definitely that going on.
Speaker:So, you know, my version of that is I feel like our quoting process
Speaker:is so tied into our design process.
Speaker:So like
Speaker:often designing
Speaker:Yeah
Speaker:for someone as we quote.
Speaker:Ah,
Speaker:That someone just doesn't come to us and go, we just like punch in
Speaker:numbers and go, oh, it's like, roughly this big, it'll be this much money.
Speaker:It's like, cool.
Speaker:What's your, what's your problem.
Speaker:Let's try and solve it together.
Speaker:What's your budget.
Speaker:Okay, cool.
Speaker:Then that probably puts you, limits you to these materials this size thing.
Speaker:And like, yeah.
Speaker:I feel like design and quoting are very tied together currently.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so I find it hard to imagine how could hire someone for the sales role
Speaker:who had doesn't have the same design background or skillset, or, you know
Speaker:the
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, there's there's that damning scenario.
Speaker:I feel like you hear about often where sales people sold job and the people
Speaker:that do the work hate them, you know, and it's exactly what you're describing.
Speaker:I think I would, I would like to say I'm proud of the scenario.
Speaker:the specialness I feel is that we don't have that disconnect because
Speaker:who can sort program it
Speaker:I've always believed that there should be.
Speaker:like everybody that's working on job is responsible for it.
Speaker:not handoff,
Speaker:Monday Tuesday basically
Speaker:isn't responsible, know, like they're as person that does
Speaker:QC, that it gets done right
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:I, you I think that a lot of easy to say because I've never had more
Speaker:four people to collectively, but, you know, once you get to 50, it's
Speaker:probably story, but I still think
Speaker:the ability to program
Speaker:people to do sales that had worked for a decent amount of time.
Speaker:And they, they was mostly like a secondary task for them.
Speaker:I still was doing the majority.
Speaker:access
Speaker:surprised at both of them caught on more than I thought they would,
Speaker:you know, like I had the same word, special, I'm special feeling of like
Speaker:and I wrote down while you were saying, that's like, The owner controls by
Speaker:owning sales, because it's so true.
Speaker:It's like we can control what comes in that way, as well as like
Speaker:profitability and all of the factors.
Speaker:I've, I've never not wanted to give it up.
Speaker:It's just, it seems really hard to give it up
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:in terms of like replacing all the skillset needed and
Speaker:just our history with it.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:We've been doing it for that process was something we had to start with
Speaker:by our, by ourselves and learn, and then perfect over so many years.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:I've not perfected it
Speaker:When you say you've trained people to do sales, do you like front end engagement
Speaker:with customers or more like, sort of the back end of like crunching numbers?
Speaker:both.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Both.
Speaker:Very minorly.
Speaker:I mean I wish I would've kind of in, it just didn't seem like it made
Speaker:sense, but one person One person was just kind of felt good at really
Speaker:liked to talk on the phone and talk to people and like communicate a lot.
Speaker:And so I was like, Hmm, this seems like it could be a good fit and did
Speaker:a lot of just good with numbers.
Speaker:So that worked out pretty well.
Speaker:Ended up not very long for other reasons.
Speaker:But then the other person was because they, the pandemic hit and
Speaker:couldn't work in the shop anymore.
Speaker:So I was like, well, what can you do remotely?
Speaker:And I was like, how about some sales?
Speaker:And they were very responsive to that because it was still a job and
Speaker:I, in the end it was like, they didn't really like it that much.
Speaker:And I don't know if they were that about all the farther I've gotten it.
Speaker:Yeah, I think my
Speaker:jumping back Worked As an owner, I am much more likely to take risks when quoting
Speaker:of like, oh yeah, we can do that.
Speaker:I dunno how we're gonna do it, but I'll say yes, cuz I know I'm confident
Speaker:that we can do of problems with
Speaker:people who have helped me in that role typically are much more conservative.
Speaker:And that makes sense, cuz they're not the
Speaker:to take risks.
Speaker:it's, it's not their, their gamble.
Speaker:And so typically they're much slower, makes sense.
Speaker:Cuz they're being more conservative, more conscientious of like,
Speaker:have I done all the things?
Speaker:Have I got all the parts on the sheet?
Speaker:Go back and check.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Cool.
Speaker:Got all things like they're they're doing more crosschecking.
Speaker:Whereas my flow is I suppose, a bit more intuitive and a bit more loose.
Speaker:Bit, definitely more risk taking of like, yeah.
Speaker:You know, it's roughly six sheets.
Speaker:Cool.
Speaker:Thing
Speaker:and the
Speaker:this
Speaker:and tips
Speaker:we did work it
Speaker:all of
Speaker:Yeah, you figured good for you.
Speaker:You did good.
Speaker:but that's something that we've I feel like we've gotten a lot better
Speaker:of recently as we've improved our sort of hand over process.
Speaker:So when we win a custom job, say it's, you know, cabinets for lounge or
Speaker:bookshelves, custom bookshelves, say if I've sold the project and I've been the
Speaker:one engaging with the customer and sort of designing it for them on the fly.
Speaker:As part of that sales process, I then make a screen capture
Speaker:video of my sketches in rhino.
Speaker:And I give that screen capture video to Josh who typically details it infusion
Speaker:when Josh finishes detailing it infusion.
Speaker:He does another video, which details all for production.
Speaker:So for the machinist for John is machining it and people who
Speaker:might be working on processing and assembly and stuff like that.
Speaker:So by doing those handover steps, it kind of makes more
Speaker:accountable to actually think
Speaker:the
Speaker:I'll often pause.
Speaker:actually articulate,
Speaker:what that detail is gonna work?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Who's where's the director.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:or not confident
Speaker:how find that
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:I I haven't actively looked for somebody I did.
Speaker:And that was this year, I think at one point.
Speaker:To that different aspects, like I've never worked in sales, I've never.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:and known anybody to work, I understand concepts that are popular, but for
Speaker:example, would you consider a commission
Speaker:As in, yeah.
Speaker:I've never worked in sales either.
Speaker:So I barely know what that even means.
Speaker:So do you mean commission, like the person who sells the project
Speaker:gets a cut, like as a reward
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So it's a part of their pay.
Speaker:So it's incentivized to sell the problem you know, there's a lot that both ways,
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:And I I've thought about stuff like that too, but I guess it's
Speaker:something I've butted up against is like, But then how do you tie that
Speaker:into that sort of bigger picture?
Speaker:Like you were saying before, like wanting to be responsible from from
Speaker:which
Speaker:you could sell whatever your to to well, let's sell, really time.
Speaker:I dunno, team.
Speaker:know
Speaker:We could start that where I don't know this popular there, like
Speaker:yet I
Speaker:popular here the pandemic where like, when you're checking out restaurant or
Speaker:something and be like, do you wanna it's like, we all share And it's like, maybe
Speaker:when our clients check out, they can
Speaker:and
Speaker:our staff, on their invoices.
Speaker:Do you wanna tip your production people
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Incentives and rewards are a super interesting area,
Speaker:which I dunno much about.
Speaker:I've always been interested in like the profit sharing concept.
Speaker:I'd love, I think I've probably mentioned that here before, but like,
Speaker:I'd love to learn more about that.
Speaker:And maybe if in down this trend of actually making a profit, which looks
Speaker:so far, so good then maybe that's something we'll invest, there's always,
Speaker:there's always the other angle of like pay people well to do a job.
Speaker:Well, that should be enough.
Speaker:So I don't know.
Speaker:answers on that one.
Speaker:other side hiring
Speaker:I'll
Speaker:is I'm confident that I am
Speaker:I
Speaker:potential for job shop
Speaker:Yeah
Speaker:ways.
Speaker:It's like, I don't respond quickly enough.
Speaker:I don't.
Speaker:I quote.
Speaker:in the ways that I'm controlling all of the steps, I'm either overly
Speaker:confident what we can do or the timeline, or I'm just personally
Speaker:stressed out about the business.
Speaker:And so then I'm like you know, either quoting or responding or like pushing
Speaker:jobs off in different ways, because I feel like we're busy, but maybe we're not.
Speaker:And it's like, as soon as you, I know for a fact, as soon
Speaker:take, it's just like production.
Speaker:It's like, I, the person that does the production isn't as worried about
Speaker:their focus on that thing, they get that done way better than I could.
Speaker:When I was splitting up my time, ways, it's like, it's gotta you know, in
Speaker:some, some fashion that their like job to call people and reach out.
Speaker:And like, I bad at all Proper I like to email people basically.
Speaker:And then after that I'm like, ah, I don't know.
Speaker:and
Speaker:Yeah, that's part of feeling here is that I need to do some time where it's just me
Speaker:wanted
Speaker:for sales completely.
Speaker:make myself more accountable.
Speaker:Cause there's, there's definitely a it, of
Speaker:couple days is I've just
Speaker:So
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Whereas I like
Speaker:might me sort of get of picking up the phone
Speaker:but
Speaker:conversion rate numbers
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:like it's kind of where my thinking is that take that whole piece of pie with
Speaker:take and ideally develop the processes around it to a point where there's enough
Speaker:structure and sort of clear process there that I can then find someone and go here.
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:so maybe then
Speaker:with
Speaker:be so specialized.
Speaker:It can be more sort of someone who doesn't have, you know, five years of
Speaker:sales experience and a small business.
Speaker:It's just someone who's kind of aligned culturally and you can go, cool.
Speaker:You're a nice fit.
Speaker:This is how we do it here off you go.
Speaker:So what I'm curious about come
Speaker:team
Speaker:is
Speaker:commission
Speaker:me, teach us how to do it.
Speaker:Well, how for still,
Speaker:sell sell
Speaker:there's like maybe things we think we do well,
Speaker:hard
Speaker:I'm sure I'm doing things push people away from or I'm just not following up in the
Speaker:ways they want to, or, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker:I'm very curious to see, to like hear them work, you know, almost in
Speaker:a sense how they would tackle clients versus others, or I don't know.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's definitely.
Speaker:If you're, if you're out there and you want a job in this, let us know
Speaker:lately
Speaker:standard And when you ideal job being much more thorough about
Speaker:actually picking up the phone we continue up the phone to follow up.
Speaker:So qualifying and follow ups have made like a massive
Speaker:improvement in our conversion rate
Speaker:And and follow ups are specifically even if they didn't contact that way.
Speaker:they said, huh?
Speaker:Air table form comes in, pick up the phone, send a quote email,
Speaker:pick up the phone a week later
Speaker:Geez.
Speaker:and sort of, as long as you sort of control those expectations and say,
Speaker:as the quote gets emailed out, you say like, I'm gonna call you in a week.
Speaker:I'm gonna touch base Tuesday.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:set those expectations, then I feel like people are very receptive and.
Speaker:Never have an issue with you calling them if you've sort of
Speaker:Do you have an idea of in these success stories of follow up by phone,
Speaker:whether these are mostly businesses or are they also private parties?
Speaker:'em
Speaker:Most of our customers are private parties, so
Speaker:Oh, really?
Speaker:both.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Both.
Speaker:And the conversations in the follow ups, you know, sometimes yes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:There's plenty of awkward ones who just like, doesn't go anywhere
Speaker:like you.
Speaker:Oh, fine.
Speaker:but for the most part, no, there's nothing that bad, nothing like that.
Speaker:but the conversations
Speaker:thing that we initially order
Speaker:now, but there's
Speaker:money just
Speaker:Ah,
Speaker:happen via those conversations, feel like only happen in person are on
Speaker:my
Speaker:who really doesn't like picking up the phone
Speaker:Join the club.
Speaker:thing we're the same
Speaker:to get over with that.
Speaker:thought actually the last never liked phone calls I just don't like,
Speaker:I feel like trapped to be Frank.
Speaker:Like, I feel like I can't do anything, but on the phone and I'm
Speaker:I have so much to do right now.
Speaker:I don't know why
Speaker:and
Speaker:about that apparently,
Speaker:I just always felt trapped in, like I had that realization two days ago I was like,
Speaker:I just need to
Speaker:if this is the reason, you could why are you fighting this so hard?
Speaker:This
Speaker:you use a lot video chat type things.
Speaker:Is that after you've won jobs then co clients.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:can email you I I do lately, I've been doing a more video
Speaker:a to go with a quote as well, to give more context around something.
Speaker:Oh, nice.
Speaker:Oh, that's smart.
Speaker:Show off a few details in rhino, cuz typically I've drawn something as part
Speaker:of the quoting process and they a PDF drawing that goes with their quote.
Speaker:But then, you know, I just, you know, it comes back to my So I should
Speaker:There's not jump diving into a quick one minute video of
Speaker:detail.
Speaker:Yes, it's unresolved.
Speaker:here and we'll it,
Speaker:That's smart.
Speaker:one to two minutes of broad context.
Speaker:I was imagining some kind of like web app where it's like a drawing, but,
Speaker:but like in, let's say it's style.
Speaker:more whimsical something or less,
Speaker:have
Speaker:drawing.
Speaker:hover over a feature, it's just your little bubble pops up starts
Speaker:talking to you about a, a detail and then you go somewhere else.
Speaker:And it's another gem
Speaker:caricature
Speaker:Cute.
Speaker:to
Speaker:gem mail.
Speaker:I desperately need that kit parts custom Kitter parts every day at
Speaker:the moment, which is great, but
Speaker:Did you get any farther with that?
Speaker:That developer?
Speaker:could do it.
Speaker:He's really busy.
Speaker:We're still in talks next few weeks.
Speaker:Maybe we'll make some progress, but yeah.
Speaker:I did have the thought the other day of maybe
Speaker:was saying
Speaker:hungry young games designer who can design a sort of Nintendo 64 emulator,
Speaker:little with some game Cause we kind of in terms of the functionality and drag and
Speaker:simple
Speaker:How hard
Speaker:it would obviously have to be Teris based so they could never make any mistakes
Speaker:Well, that's what Ben said, like the parts
Speaker:Okay I I run
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You only get one shot.
Speaker:Don't get upside down.
Speaker:goes into shopping cart and it's but we have chatted a little bit
Speaker:about your genius idea of just like printing out the components.
Speaker:Having a little cardboard cut out kit.
Speaker:I yeah, for sure.
Speaker:such good engagement, you know, like a sense of being able
Speaker:that
Speaker:somebody,
Speaker:inquired about is
Speaker:know, like to cover your cost, needed do that, so that people wouldn't
Speaker:just willynilly them all over
Speaker:right
Speaker:try how it goes, but if they
Speaker:email I find like the phone
Speaker:was trying to make a joke about farm to table.
Speaker:If they wanted, wanted a little slower version of manufacturing,
Speaker:to call
Speaker:send them the they could put it together and play with different parts
Speaker:Got potential.
Speaker:Have you made any progress on your neck
Speaker:Configurations?
Speaker:supposed to be working on that this week.
Speaker:I banged my head against thinking about it a lot yesterday.
Speaker:No, think I'm kind of resigned to put up a couple options for this show.
Speaker:Like we have horizontal and a vertical for this display we made.
Speaker:And then we're also bringing this weird thing that Ricky made that holds parts and
Speaker:goes in our bathroom to keep parts clean.
Speaker:It's a, it's a drying rack.
Speaker:That has the knack ball on it.
Speaker:We're gonna bring that.
Speaker:So it'll be like the offload station.
Speaker:So if people are interested, they can take stuff off of their
Speaker:rearrange, one on their own.
Speaker:And I'm either gonna just take photos or like set up a camera and
Speaker:like track of what people are either doing and then interface with them.
Speaker:And I'm hoping that I'll have some way to just price everything and just say,
Speaker:all right, well, this would cost this.
Speaker:Are you interested kind of thing, or I
Speaker:with.
Speaker:can call you back with detail in a week.
Speaker:when you say interface with them, do you mean talk to them?
Speaker:creep.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Like a, like a, like the AI that you are
Speaker:would like to interface with you now about Nack Wall
Speaker:sales with Justin in
Speaker:and Jen the morning.
Speaker:I'll have a steaming hot cup of sales, please.
Speaker:of steaming 81 in here and I need to do some machining.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm we're an Aaron, Aaron 10 on the clock, so yeah,
Speaker:our new recording session We'll find
Speaker:hopefully
Speaker:if you heard worked somehow.
Speaker:We didn't have to disconnect three times.
Speaker:Go and make some aluminum chips.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I can't share this one, but I can share the fixture for it.
Speaker:It's very boring.
Speaker:Cool.
Speaker:cool.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Well, I'll catch you later.
Speaker:Catch there.
Speaker:Bye.
Speaker:Wait, is that a Justin health check pass.
